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Congressional Resolution to Block President's Iraq Plan; Parents of Kidnapped Boys Talk about Case; Good and Bad News About Cancer Rates

Aired January 17, 2007 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Don Lemon, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Fredricka Whitfield in for Kyra Phillips.

New details about the August Comair crash in Kentucky. Forty- nine people died. Only the co-pilot survived. Today, tapes of the final seconds. What went wrong?

LEMON: Thousands without power across the plains. Frigid temperatures and a new icy mess in the southeast. When will the thaw begin?

WHITFIELD: And who's who in the presidential race? The list is getting long and longer. Why is everyone jumping in so early? And who really has a chance?

LEMON: The commander in chief controls the troops. Congress controls the money. Right? And Democrats now control Congress. That's a discussion today in the House.

Straight to Capitol Hill and CNN's congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel -- Andrea.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, exactly one week after the president laid out his new plan to send over 20,000 U.S. troops to Iraq, we're getting an official reaction from Congress, a bipartisan reaction, from two top Democratic senators, Joe Biden, the chairman of the foreign relation committee, and from Carl Levin, who's the chairman of the armed services committee.

They are joined by a top Republican, by Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, who's a longtime war critic. And what they have done -- CNN has obtained language from this Iraq resolution that they're going to be laying out in a couple of hours. What they're saying is, quote, "Whereas the U.S. strategy and presence on the ground in Iraq can only be sustained with the support of the American people and bipartisan support from Congress, it is not in the national interest of the United States to deepen its military involvement in Iraq, particularly by escalating the U.S. troop presence in Iraq."

The resolution goes on to say that the only way to solve the issue in Iraq is to make it a political solution and that the Iraqis have to step up to the plate. This is basically an attempt to isolate President Bush. They are looking to get as much Republican support as possible. And even though it's only a symbolic resolution, it's nonbinding, does not have the force of law.

This would be, depending upon how much Republican support they get, Don, a real embarrassment to President Bush. It would show that he has a number of members of his own party who are splitting with him because they recognize just how unpopular the war in Iraq is among the American public, but that they also don't support his ideas as to how to resolve the conflict in Iraq.

And in some instances, Don, it's also an acknowledgement and a recognition that a number of these Republicans are going to be facing tough elections in '08. And so once they lay out this proposal later this afternoon, Don, we know President Bush is going to be meeting with a number of the Republicans who are on the fence who don't yet know which way they're going to vote, in an attempt to persuade them and dissuade them from supporting the resolution -- Don.

LEMON: Yes, and Andrea, I think the word that's been used to describe the president's position on this is isolation or isolated.

I'm not sure if you know about this, but Senator Clinton and Evan Bayh and also Representative John McCune (ph) are going to hold a press conference to talk about their findings in Iraq a little bit later on today?

KOPPEL: Right, I mean, this -- the resolution that senators Biden, Hagel and Levin are going to be laying out is nonbinding, and it basically just states the opposition of the Congress to the war in Iraq.

What Senator Clinton is going to be doing in her press conference later this afternoon is saying that there needs to be further legislation which would put a cap on the number of troops that the president is authorized to have in Iraq at any one time.

What does that do? It puts a cap on the existing level and would try to block President Bush from sending any additional troops there.

LEMON: All right, Andrea Koppel, thank you so much for your report.

WHITFIELD: Another big story today, a wintry mess from coast to coast. In the Pacific Northwest, snowed under for almost a week. The mercury's barely climbed to zero, if at all. Driving is hazardous at best, and schools are closed. And guess what, sledding injuries are up.

It's a struggle to keep from shivering from Texas to Maine. About 340,000 homes and businesses remain in the dark. And it could be another week or three before everyone is back online in McAllister, Oklahoma. The lights came back on only last night at the state penitentiary there. Governor Brad Henry is touring the town today. So the big chill could soon have a chilling effect on your grocery bills, as well. The cold snap has destroyed much of California's winter crops. That means the cost of citrus, avocados, even fresh flowers, will be going up. Just in time for Valentine's Day.

Of course, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has declared a state of emergency in 10 counties.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: We don't know exactly what the financial damage is yet, but we know that it is probably close to -- just the citrus industry alone -- close to $1 billion. If you add all the others, the strawberries and the avocados, this could be an additional few hundred million dollars of damage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Some of the crops already had been harvested, so there will be a limited supply. Some fruit may have to be imported.

Even the Deep South is in the deep freeze. Metro Atlanta bracing for icy roads before the day is done.

Reynolds Wolf out of the cold and back in our weather center. But, my friend, you're going to be back in the cold again this evening. We all are here in Atlanta.

(WEATHER REPORT)

REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: And life is good in Miami with a high temperature of 81 degrees. Ridiculous. They've been having great stuff down there.

WHITFIELD: They kill me. They kill me down there.

WOLF: They don't know how good they've got it.

WHITFIELD: I think they do know.

WOLF: It's a little bit of a secret. You bet you.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks a lot, Reynolds.

WOLF: See you in a bit.

WHITFIELD: Well, when weather becomes the news, you, too, can become a CNN correspondent. If you see severe weather happening, send us an i-report. Go to CNN.com and click on i-report or type ireport@CNN.com into your cell phone and share your photos and video. We'll get it on the air.

LEMON: Building evidence on bizarre details, four years' worth. Prosecutors in Missouri are tackling the case of alleged kidnapper Michael Devlin. He faces one criminal count and one court hearing. But there's a lot more of both to come.

CNN's Keith Oppenheim is in Union, Missouri -- Keith.

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don. I'm in Washington County, Missouri. This is the county where 15-year-old Shawn Hornbeck lives with his parents, the county where he was abducted from four years ago.

And behind me is the place where, in a couple of hours, the Washington County attorney will announce that there will be additional charges against the kidnapping suspect, Michael Devlin.

Devlin's already been charged with one count of child kidnapping in the abduction of 13-year-old Ben Ownby, and he's being held on $1 million bail. Tomorrow, Devlin will be formally arraigned in a neighboring county, Franklin County, on that charge.

Now one of the most central and troubling questions in this case is what was the motive, why did it happen, and what happened during captivity, for the four days of captivity for Ben Ownby and four years of captivity for Shawn Hornbeck.

Ben Ownby's parents spoke very cautiously about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON OWNBY, FATHER: We're not going to push him. It's one part of the healing process. Wants to talk to us, we're there for him. He knows that. And we're just day at a time, you know, whatever's best for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OPPENHEIM: Now the Ownby family says that they are going to be pulling back from doing more media interviews, but the Hornbeck family are -- they're actually -- Shawn Hornbeck's parents are in Chicago today to do a taping with "The Oprah Winfrey Show". That's Craig and Pam Akers.

We don't believe that Shawn Hornbeck will be taking part in that interview, because on the urging of police, both -- the two boys, both Ben and Shawn, have said very little at this point. But the parents are speaking out to the media today -- Don.

LEMON: Yes, and there is some concern about the man they're holding in all of this, that there may be others, sadly. What are investigators saying about Devlin in regards to other missing children cases, Keith?

OPPENHEIM: Well, they definitely see that the fact that they have him in custody now, that that's an opportunity to see if there's a connection between Devlin and other open missing children's cases.

They don't know, or at least haven't said that there is a connection between him and other open cases. But they have said that they think that the very least that Devlin was monitoring police activities during the investigation of other local missing children's cases, possibly to elude authorities.

Back to you.

LEMON: All right, very interesting. Keith Oppenheim, in Missouri, thank you so much for that.

WHITFIELD: Final words before a fatal crash. A transcript from Comair Flight 5191 offers chilling insight into a deadly accident in Kentucky. Details straight ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

LEMON: Good news about cancer. You heard it right. Americans are kicking a killer to the curb. You'll see how. Straight ahead, in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: President Bush turned his attention today from the war in Iraq and the war on terror to the war against cancer. And on that front, there's promising news. The president toured the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland, and talked about advances in cancer prevention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: First, I'm pleased that we're funding cancer research. We're up about 25 percent or 26 percent since 2001. It's a commitment that I made when I first came to Washington. It's a commitment we're keeping.

And the reason why it makes sense to spend taxpayers' money on cancer research is that we can make some good progress and have. Interestingly enough, this is the second consecutive year that there was a drop in the number of cancer deaths in the United States. And the drop this year was the steepest ever recorded.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And just to underscore the president's point that the report shows a decline for the second consecutive year, experts say it proves last year's drop wasn't a fluke after all.

CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now to break it all down. So how significant is this drop?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is a significant drop. It is only the second time in 70 years that they've actually seen a drop in cancer rates since they've been keeping track.

The American Cancer Society reports that from 2003 to 2004, they saw 3,014 fewer deaths. That is a big number. Compare it to the drop from 2002 to 2003, 369 fewer deaths. So that is a big drop. Again, it's only twice that that's happened in the past 70 years.

WHITFIELD: Why the big drop?

COHEN: Several reasons. One of them is simply better prevention. All those campaigns to get people to quit smoking that started decades ago, they are actually paying off now. So better prevention, improved screening, especially for breast cancer and colon cancer.

Also, more effective treatments. There are better kinds of chemotherapy out there. There are better hormonal treatments, and doctors are getting better, actually, at combining those two.

WHITFIELD: So the results are better, both for men and women across the board?

COHEN: They are, however, men are seeing more of an advantage when it comes to lung cancer. All those early prevention programs that started way back in the '70s, those were more aimed at men. So men quit smoking, and now are reaping those benefits. Women didn't quit smoking in the same number.

So it's interesting. Now you hear cancer doctors saying, "We've got to get to those women now." And now if women start (sic) smoking in great numbers like the men did, decades from now, you'll see that -- those numbers pan out.

WHITFIELD: So we're all celebrating the good news. But just to get the reality check, if you will, is there any underlying bad news, too?

COHEN: Yes, the reality is that there are disparities, still, even to this day, in differences in cancer rates among African- Americans and white Americans. And those differences really are quite sizable.

Let's take a look at the differences between African-American men and white men. The differences there is that African-American men have a 15 percent higher cancer rate than white men and a 38 percent higher death rate. In other words, when white men and black men both get cancer, the black men have a 38 percent higher death rate. That is a huge number.

Let's look at the women now. African-American women actually have a 9 percent lower rate of getting cancer, but they also have an 18 percent higher death rate from cancer.

It's that death rate that doctors really want to target. There are probably several reasons for that. One of the reasons is that -- just access to care, that African-Americans don't often have the same access to care.

WHITFIELD: Been a problem for a long time.

COHEN: For a very long time; this is nothing new. And also sometimes, even when the care is there, for some reason African- Americans don't always take advantage of it in the same way. And so they're trying to figure out why and how to fix that.

WHITFIELD: All right. Very good. Thanks very much.

COHEN: Thanks.

WHITFIELD: Well, not too long ago, the thought of being able to stop cancer before it starts seemed unrealistic. No more. Invest an hour this Saturday and possibly add years to your life. Tune in at 3 p.m. Eastern with Dr. Sanjay Gupta right here on CNN.

And you may know Tony Snow as the president's press secretary. Well, guess what? He is also a cancer survivor. And he lost his mother to the same type of cancer he was able to beat. Snow joins us in the next hour right here in the NEWSROOM.

LEMON: Interesting to watch that.

You need a program to tell the players in all this. A year before the first presidential primary, a lot of politicians are trying to look presidential. The rundown straight ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

WHITFIELD: And final words before a fatal crash. A transcript from Comair Flight 5191 offers chilling insight into a deadly accident in Kentucky. Details straight ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A popular social networking site is taking steps to keep younger users safe. I guess that's always good. Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange.

Give us all the details, Susan.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We're talking about really young users here with MySpace, Don. Wants to give parents more information about what their kids are doing on the Web.

The popular social networking site will offer free software allowing parents to check the names and ages their children are using to represent themselves. However, the software -- it's called Zephyr -- will not allow parents to read their child's e-mail or see his or her profile, and it will alert children that their information is being shared.

"The Wall Street Journal" says dozens of teens have been molested and some have even been murdered by people who first contacted them through MySpace -- Don.

LEMON: Very sad.

LISOVICZ: Very disturbing.

LEMON: Now is this enough, do you think the government will think this is enough that they're doing with this?

LISOVICZ: Nope. Don, government officials want MySpace to go further. A group of more than 30 state attorneys general are considering taking legal action if MySpace doesn't raise the age requirement to join the site to 16 from 14. The group also wants the site to verify user's ages. So far, MySpace hasn't taken either of these steps. It's difficult to verify kid's ages easily. It's not like they have driver's licenses, for instance, at that age.

The Zephyr software could shift the burden from MySpace to parents. Critics say it won't do enough considering that only half of parents currently use Internet blocking software.

(STOCK REPORT)

LISOVICZ: Finally this news. A former Cendant executive, Walter Forbes, has reportedly been sentenced to 12 years and 7 months in prison and ordered to pay $3.25 billion in restitution. That is "b" as in "boy." This, for his role in one of the biggest accounting frauds of the 1990s.

In November, a jury found Forbes guilty of conspiracy to commit securities fraud and making false statements. That name Cendant may not sound so familiar. It's got a lot of familiar brands, though: Howard Johnson, Avis, Coldwell Banker, Century 21.

That's the latest from Wall Street. Coming up, telecommuting might help save you time and money, but it could put the brakes on your career. I'll explain the next hour.

Back to you, Don and Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks so much, Susan.

Well, I know the answer to this next question. Want to get smart for less? Congress could give millions of students a break on those college loans. We'll crunch the numbers straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Hello, everyone, I'm Don Lemon, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.

WHITFIELD: And I'm Fredricka Whitfield in for Kyra Phillips.

Who's running for president in '08? The shorter list could be who's not. We'll sort through who's in right now and who else might be booking trips to New Hampshire, of all places.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

It was the worst U.S. air disaster in five years. The crash of Comair flight 5191 last summer killed 49 people, everyone but the co- pilot. Today, the government released the pertinent documents and audio recordings.

And CNN's Brianna Keilar has been shifting through them. She joins us now from Washington.

What did you find, Brianna?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, as you know, Comair flight 5191 was a Delta connection flight operated by Comair, and it was scheduled to head from Lexington, Kentucky Bluegrass Airport to Atlanta, on August 27, 2006, before sunup. But flight 5191, it took off on the wrong runway. It took off on a runway that was too short, and it crashed about a third of a mile off the end of that runway. As you said, 49 people died. Only the copilot survived.

And here's the mystery that today's transcript of the cockpit voice recorder by the National Transportation Safety Board shed some light on. If we're looking at a map of this runway, you can see runway 22. This is the runway that flight 5191 was cleared to take off on. It's a little more than 7,000 feet long, and there are lights on this runway, which are required by the FAA if the sun is not up, which was the case here.

Now they took off on the shorter runway, you see there closer to the top of the screen. This is runway 26, it's about 3,500 feet long, much shorter, and there are no lights.

So the big question, why did the crew still take off on runway 26 with no lights? There are some clues in this cockpit voice recorder. About 10 minutes actually before the crash, the copilot says he, quote, came in the other night and it was like lights were out all over the place. He references that some lights were out, indicating the end of the runway. So what you can infer from that is it didn't seem bizarre to him maybe some lights were out. Another reference to these lights being out here from the cockpit voice recorder transcripts released today. The copilot, he says, "That is weird with no lights." The pilot acknowledges this, he says, "yes." They go on to do some checks. At this point, they're heading down the runway. And then at about -- just several seconds of before the crash, the pilot says, "Whoa." You hear an unknown ambient noise. And then the pilot actually says an expletive, and then there is the sound of the impact.

Now there are some other mysteries, Fredricka. These pilots were familiar with this airport, with Bluegrass Airport in Lexington, Kentucky. There are still questions about whether construction to the taxiways to those runways the week before, whether that could have confused them and had them heading to the wrong runway, and maybe that's how they ended up on this short runway. At this point, we don't know the answer to that question.

WHITFIELD: I remember that being a question immediately following that accident. Meantime, you mentioned the lone survivor, the copilot -- how is he doing?

KEILAR: Well, one of our CNN affiliates in Bowling Green reporting that he had a leg that was amputated, and also that there was some brain damage.

What's interesting is the National Transportation Safety Board says he hasn't been interviewed by investigators at this point because of medical reasons. So a source there telling me presumably that's because a doctor has said he's not ready to talk with investigators. And as we said, reports that he has suffered brain damage, so that could be the cause of that.

WHITFIELD: Right. All right, Brianna Keilar, thank you so much for that update from Washington.

Meantime, just back from Iraq, with plenty to say about it, a congressional delegation, Republican and Democrat, met the troops, the generals, the politicians, and later in this program, they meet the media. CNN will carry their news conference live. Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton, Evan Bayh and Representative John McCune, they'll speak from Washington at about 3:00 p.m. Eastern.

LEMON: We look ford to that. And the midterm elections are a memory. The presidential primaries, and caucuses and straw polls are just close enough to be tantalizing. It's exploration season.

CNN's Bob Franken surveys a field of explorers, a field that gets more crowded by the week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), ILLINOIS: I'll be filing papers today to create a presidential exploratory committee.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He may be considered inexperienced, but Barack Obama has already learned how to milk publicity.

OBAMA: On February 10th, at the end of these discussions in my home state of Illinois, I'll share my plans with my friends, neighbors and fellow Americans.

FRANKEN: The nation waits.

In the meantime, Republican Sam Brownback Will be diving in from the right on Saturday. His campaign slogan, I'm not John McCain. Take the addition of more troops to Iraq. Not the answer, says Brownback. The answer, argues McCain.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I believe it's necessary, and I hope we can move forward.

FRANKEN: McCain has not officially moved forward with his presidential candidacy. But there are few surer things in this life. That's probably true on the Democratic side of Hillary Rodham Clinton's plans. Clinton aides are complaining that John Edwards, who's already in the ballgame, has been throwing some hardballs at her, departing from his, we're all in this together mantra.

JOHN EDWARDS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to have to do it, all of us together.

FRANKEN: The presidential candidate landscape is already cluttered. Among Democrats, Congressman Dennis Kucinich, Senator Christopher Dodd, former Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack, who at least doesn't have to travel far.

Among the big-name Republicans in the hunt, there's Giuliani and Romney. The small names include Duncan Hunter and now GOP Congressman Tom Tancredo, who is hoping his restrictive immigration leadership produces a groundswell on this side of the border. And in both parties, there are literally dozens threatening to run.

RHODES COOK, POL. ANALYST: This is the time to realize the American dream. You know, if you're brought up to believe that anybody can be president, this is the type of election cycle to realize that.

FRANKEN (on camera): If we don't need a scorecard, we probably do need an inventory. If you're wondering if someone is running, the answer is probably yes.

Bob Franken, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Probably yes.

And joining us to keep -- to help us keep all the names on the agenda straight for '08, NPR political editor Ken Rudin join us now from Washington.

And, Ken, you know what, something that just happened, the Senate Democrats are working with a well-known Republican to help them, someone who is actually -- has thrown his hat into the ring in 2008, Chuck Hagel, to draw up this legislation about not sending more troops to Iraq that they're supposed to present on the eve of the president's address to the nation. What do you make of all this?

KEN RUDIN, NPR POL. EDITOR: Well, actually, Hagel has not announced for president yet. He's considering it. But it does show that Republicans are just as nervous, if not even more so, than the Democrats on the war. We saw the November 7th elections, Republicans took a beating around the country, mostly on the war. And Chuck Hagel knows it's not a winning issue.

LEMON: Let's talk about the Republicans. Let's keep that with, because so much has been overshadowed. They've been sort of overshadowed by Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, two huge stars in the Democratic Party. Who is on the playing field in the Republican Party?

RUDIN: Well, you know, as Bob Franken's piece just pointed out, obviously, John McCain is the big, big name. He ran a respectable race in 2000. He's running again in 2008. But the problem is he's supporting a war that most Americans, I assume, most Republicans, don't support. He wants more troops. He's not in favor of this going on forever, but he feels that more troops are needed for this to have a satisfactory end. And I guess if you look at the polls, most voters don't see it ending satisfactory.

There's also Mitt Romney, the former governor, the outgoing governor of Massachusetts. Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, who leads -- at least among the front-runners in many of many of the national polls.

But you know, being pro choice, anti-gun and pro-gay rights in a party that doesn't agree with those positions, it's hard to see him going too far.

LEMON: And you also have candidates who don't have the same name recognition throwing their hats into the ring, like Tom Tancredo. How much of it do you think is name recognition? Because people are hammering Obama now, and it's going to get worse, I'm sure, on the lack of experience, only being a senator for two years. But he's got the name recognition, and I would imagine that people around the country know who he is as much as they know Hillary Clinton?

RUDIN: Well, they certainly know him from the 2004 Democratic convention when he gave a very effective speech. But again, being the only African-American member of the Senate also gives you national attention. And again, looking at polls a year from now, 10 days before the Iowa caucuses in 2004, we were saying Howard Dean was going to win it, and 10 days later he finished third. Polls a year from now are really meaningless.

But having said that, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama are national figures who will do very well. One more point about the two years Obama's had in the Senate, the last member of Congress ever elected president was John Kennedy some 40 years ago, 45 years ago. So perhaps experience in the Senate is not what voters are looking for.

LEMON: Yes, and, you know, we had some polls -- you were talking about polls that showed that Hillary Clinton, and then Barack Obama and then Gore and then Edwards. I want to talk about Edwards, because yesterday in "THE SITUATION ROOM" he addressed the Obama question, and also Hillary Clinton.

Let's take a listen. I want to see what you have to say about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARDS: It's a good thing to have good people in this race. If you're running for president for the right reason, it's because you want to serve your country and you've decided it's the best way to serve your country. I've thought long and hard about that and made that decision for myself. And I guess it will be for Senator Obama to decide in the next few weeks whether that's something he believes he should do.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It sounds like you're not convinced he's necessarily ready to run for the presidency.

EDWARDS: I wouldn't pass judgment on any of the other candidates.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: But John Edwards says, I'm putting my hat in the ring, no exploratory committee, I'm running for president. He didn't have much to say about Hillary Clinton. She really has not said she's going to run. It is assumed that she's going to run.

Do you think this in anyway by Senator Obama announcing, that this eclipses her star in anyway?

RUDIN: Well, it Certainly eclipsed it yesterday, because he was in the front page of all the newspapers today. But, again, Hillary Clinton is having a news conference today at 3:00 to tell everybody what she learned on her recent trip to Iraq, so ...

LEMON: And she's got the money and connections here.

RUDIN: She has the money and connections and she has Bill Clinton connections from two successful campaigns for president. Obama doesn't have the national stage connections. But again, he represents, as he says, the future and not the past, which I assume is a little dig at Hillary Clinton.

LEMON: Yes, you know what, real quickly, I want to ask you about something. Clinton/Obama, polarizing ticket, but people say it is a possibility, whatever way it shapes out.

People would think -- some people would think that it would be polarizing. I've been speaking to people who say, you know what in this political environment, this just could work, it could be unstoppable.

RUDIN: Well, I can't remember the last black or female president we've had. Matter of fact, we've had none. It would be fascinating. But again, if the two of them have a nasty campaign for the Democratic nomination, it will be tough to see them on the same ticket, but they promise that it will be pretty much a non-aggressive path that they will both run.

LEMON: OK, I am completely out of time, but I want to ask you about this. Interesting that Obama announced on the internet. Do you think that's going to play a bigger role in the 2008 campaign?

RUDIN: We saw what it did to Howard Dean, it didn't give him the nomination. But it sure got him a lot of money, a lot of supporters, and it could do the same for Obama in '08.

LEMON: All right, we always love your perspective, thank you so much. Ken Rudin.

WHITFIELD: All right, here's a question for you -- you want to get smart for less? Who wouldn't. Congress could give millions of students a break on those college loans. We'll look at the numbers straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Making student loans more affordable is part of the Democrats' 100-hour push in Congress. The House plans to vote today on cutting interest rates, some by half. It's expected to pass, though top Republicans and the White House oppose it. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that it would cost about $6 billion.

CNN personal finance correspondent Gerri Willis joins us now with more on what this might mean for you, particularly for those students who are either applying for financial aid or perhaps the graduating students who now have huge student loan bills.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE CORRESPONDENT: Well, thank you Fred. Yes, it's a complicated thing. Let's take a look. First at who stands to benefit from this bill if it's passed.

Since the subsidized Stafford loan is need-based, low and middle- income students are likely to qualify. A majority of borrowers are from families making $67,000 annually or less. And of course, it's estimated to help 5.5 million students. We spoke with bill's sponsor Congressman George Miller about the initiative.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GEORGE MILLER (D), CALIFORNIA: This is just the beginning of a comprehensive program to try to keep the cost of college down, to contain the cost of college. And to make it more affordable for more Americans who are fully qualified to go to college.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIS: It's also important to note that this bill is specifically targeted to undergraduates.

WHITFIELD: All right so let's break down how this interest rate cut could work.

WILLIS: Well, the bill proposes to cut interest rates on the subsidized Stafford loan from 6.8 percent to 3.4 percent, beginning this July. But the rate cuts are phased in over the course of five years.

So this year, the interest rate will be cut to 6.12 percent. In 2008, the rate will go to 5.44 percent. These small cuts continue until 2011 when the rate will be cut all the way down to 3.4 percent.

WHITFIELD: I know you did the math for us, thank you, so break it down in terms of dollars and cents.

WILLIS: All right, here's the breakdown. Take a look at this. Assuming a student has $10,000 in subsidized Stafford loans on a ten- year repayment schedule, pretty typical, a freshman this fall will save an average of nearly $1,100 over the life of the loan.

And if you just want to look at the potential monthly saving between these two rates, well for a loan at 6.8 percent, you would pay about $115 a month. Now, with the 3.4 percent loan, you'll be paying less than 100 bucks. That is a savings of about $17 a month -- Fred. WHITFIELD: So cut in half, 3.4 percent, that sounds almost too good to be true.

WILLIS: And in fact, it is. What's not being talked about today is how long that 3.4 percent interest rate will be in effect. It's actually set to expire on January 1st, 2012. So get this, the 3.4 percent rate will only be in effect for 6 months and if there is no extension of cuts, the rate will revert back to 6.8 percent.

WHITFIELD: It's like those credit card deals that sound so good and you're like, ooh, I'm going to take that -- zero percent.

WILLIS: But this is from the federal government, right.

WHITFIELD: All right, so then what's next?

WILLIS: Well, if this bill is passed it will make its way to the Senate where it may be part of a broader bill introduced by Senator Kennedy later this month. And many people of course are going to want to follow this.

If you're a student out there we'll tell you how to do this. Go to the library of Congress' website at thomas.loc.gov. Type in the bill number, which is HR-05. And of course Fred, we'll bring you all the latest developments as it happens. It's good news, certainly, for students out there who have hefty loans they've got to pay off.

WHITFIELD: Oh, yeah, so even if it is for a few months, every little bit helps.

WILLIS: That's right.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks a lot Gerri.

WILLIS: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And you of course, can always watch both the House and Senate sessions from Capitol Hill streamed live on CNN pipeline. So, go to CNN.com/pipeline.

LEMON: The top prosecutor in Phoenix, Arizona, calls it the end of a reign of terror. A 74-count indictment has been handed up against former construction worker Mark Goudeau in the baseline killer case.

Goudeau is accused of a string of crimes that ran between August 2005 and June of last year, including nine counts of first degree murder, 15 counts of sexual assault, and 11 counts of kidnapping.

Investigators say DNA and ballistics evidence tie Goudeau to the crimes. Goudeau's lawyers say he'll plead not guilty.

A day later, it's still burning. The train that derailed yesterday just south of Louisville, Kentucky, carrying a toxic brew of chemicals. No one was seriously hurt, but people who live within a mile of the site were asked to leave. Interstate 65 was closed for 11 hours. Firefighters plan a controlled burn to get rid of the chemicals in the damaged car.

WHITFIELD: Conservative crush. What TV series do neocons love to talk about these days? It's not on the news channels. The answer straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

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STEPHEN HAWKING, ASTROPHYSICIST: It is now five until midnight.

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LEMON: Armageddon, minutes away? Well, metaphorically maybe. It's the annual adjustment to the doomsday clock, now set at 11:55 p.m., two minutes later than yesterday. The clock tracks threats to global stability, as you may recall, from the Cold War. These days, the scientists in charge fear a second nuclear arms race and climate change.

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HAWKING: Since Hiroshima and Nagasaki, no nuclear weapons have been used in the world, so the world has been uncomfortably close to disaster on more than one occasion. But for good luck, we would all be dead.

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LEMON: The Doomsday Project was launched back in 1947 at seven minutes to midnight. The closest we've ever been to the end? Well, that was two minutes away after the U.S. H-bomb test in 1953.

WHITFIELD: Attention, neoconservatives. Prime-time television's got your number. It's "24." As the hit series unleashes another nail-biting season, neocons are heaping liberal amounts of praise on its tough as nails, terror-fighting hero Jack Bauer. You have got to whisper it.

CNN's Carol Costello reports.

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CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Monday on the Fox television series "24": terror in California. A mushroom cloud spreads over a suburb of Los Angeles, triggered by a mini-nuclear bomb set off by an Islamic terrorist, action-packed entertainment for sure.

But is it more? Is it, as "Newsweek" magazine calls it, a "neocon sex fantasy"?

DEVIN GORDON, "NEWSWEEK" TELEVISION CRITIC: "24" is just your worst nightmares realized. If "24" is true, then everything the neoconservatives have been saying all along is true.

COSTELLO: As in, a terrorist network working inside the United States, sending suicide bombers to subways and shopping malls, ordering up dirty bombs assembled right in California, and a hero, Jack Bauer, who is decent like John Wayne, yet often ignores international law, torturing terrorists to get vital information.

JAMES JAY CARAFANO, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Jack Bauer is kind of a metaphor for all of the great people that we have out there every day, really are, you know, working hard to make us safe.

COSTELLO: Carafano of the conservative Heritage Foundation so admires "24's" plots, his group sponsored a forum in June called "'24' and America's Image in Fighting Terrorism: Fact, Fiction or Does It Matter?"

On the panel: terrorism experts, including Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.

MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: And I think people are attracted to that because, frankly, it reflects real life. That is what we do everyday. That is what we do in the government. That's what we do in private life when we evaluate risks.

COSTELLO: Also invited, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas and conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh, who so loves "24" he's posted a review of this season on his Web site.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I am literally in awe of the creativity of the brains behind the program.

COSTELLO: Feeling the neocon love of the program, possible presidential candidate John McCain made a guest appearance on "24" last season.

The buzz is so loud this season, Gordon says he's starting to get a little nervous.

GORDON: Nothing that happens on the show would even happen like that in real life. So for neoconservatives to claim it as sort of a badge that they're right is kind of like admitting that something that you watch in a fantasy world is reality.

COSTELLO: Fantasy or something more?

"24" remains as popular as ever.

Carol Costello, CNN, New York.

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LEMON: Well, from the schoolyard to cyberspace, a teenage squabble turns ugly. And Web surfers can't get enough. But the story doesn't end there. We'll pick it up right here in the NEWSROOM.

WHITFIELD: And we're monitoring a briefing at the White House this hour. Reporters asking questions about Iraq.

And, of course, we'll be talking to this man right here, Tony Snow, about his own personal brush with cancer and why the White House is committed to doing more about research for cancer and increasing public awareness. All that coming up.

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