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Critics Question Federal Prosecutor Firings; Joint Chiefs Chairman Calls Homosexuality Immoral; Tourists in Mexico Pay for Fake Border Crossing; TSA to Perform Random Checks of Security Screeners

Aired March 13, 2007 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
KIRAN CHETRY, CO-HOST: And I'm Kiran Chetry, in for Kyra Phillips, who is on assignment.

Don't ask, don't tell. The military policy on gays is back in the headlines. What did the joint chiefs chairman say to set off the latest debate? We're going to talk about that and ask you to weigh in on the issue.

LEMON: And the firings of federal prosecutors. The move was already controversial. Now talk that the White House may have been behind it all. The fallout just ahead.

CHETRY: Also, illegal immigration, it's a divisive issue, but a tourist attraction, as well? Our Soledad O'Brien joins us this hour from Mexico with more on this bizarre story.

You're live in the NEWSROOM.

LEMON: The question is, did the White House or President Bush himself have a hand in firing those U.S. attorneys? New details, new questions, new suspicions in the Justice Department shakeup that has some lawmakers calling for the resignation of the attorney general.

Alberto Gonzales' chief of staff resigned last night over his role in dismissing several federal prosecutors since December. The Bush administration insists it's a routine personnel matter linked to poor performance, but critics say the U.S. attorneys were fired for not being hard enough on Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: Attorney General Gonzales has either forgotten the oath he took to uphold the Constitution or just doesn't understand that the duty to protect the law is greater than his duty to protect the president.

He's a nice man. You meet the attorney general and you say, he is not one of these sort of, you know, political warriors. But there's too much at stake here. And to have somebody who's going to let this happen or be part of it happening is just no longer -- we can't countenance it any longer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, the White House has plenty to say about the controversy. CNN's Ed Henry is traveling with the president in Merida, Mexico -- Ed.

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, you're right. Because of this political firestorm, the White House wanted to be talking about immigration reform, other key issues affecting the United States, but also, neighbors here such as Mexico, where the president is wrapping up his seven-day tour. All of a sudden that is being overshadowed by this political firestorm.

What we now know, the details dribbling out, that in fact, the president at some point in all of this did talk to the attorney general, Gonzales, about complaints he was hearing, we're told Karl Rove is hearing, and other White House aides about some of these U.S. attorneys allegedly not performing well. And that some of those concerns for a place were passed on from the White House to the attorney general. But they're insisting that the president not direct this.

But what we are learning today, and in fact CNN has confirmed, is that Harriet Miers, the White House's top lawyer at the time in early 2005 was speaking to the attorney general's chief of staff, Kyle Sampson. And he resigned yesterday over all of this.

And his recollection is that Harriet Miers came to him and basically said in early 2005 she wanted to remove all 93 U.S. attorneys across the country. Kyle Sampson's recollection at the Justice Department is that he said this is not a good idea.

What's also important is that we're learning today that Karl Rove remembers a conversation with Harriet Miers in which he said this is not a good idea.

So then move forward to November 2006. The Justice Department comes up with a list of only seven -- not 93, but seven U.S. attorneys to be removed. Again, they claimed, the White House claims this is because of performance reasons, not political reasons.

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino saying, quote, "We continue to believe the decision to remove and replace U.S. attorneys who serve at the pleasure of the president was appropriate and within our discretion, and we stand by DOJ's, the Justice Department's, assertion that they identified the seven U.S. attorneys who were removed for performance and managerial reasons."

But the question then becomes if all of this was appropriate, if there was nothing wrong, why did Kyle Sampson step down? As you heard Democrat Chuck Schumer here, they're raising questions about whether he is, in fact, the fall guy here.

And finally, where does this go next? Well, you can already hear Democrats like Schumer saying they'd like Karl Rove and other top White House aides to come up to Capitol Hill and testify about all of this so they can get to the bottom of it. This is one of those examples now of the shift in power on the Hill, Democrats in charge. They can make these demands. They couldn't make that before when Republicans were in charge. They can actually back it up with the force of subpoenas if they want.

There's a precedent here where senior White House aides who are not confirmed by the U.S. Senate typically do not have to testify to Congress. You can bet Democrats are going to try to test that here. They're going to push the envelope.

All the White House is saying for now is that they will consider any request for Rove or any other White House aide to testify when they officially receive it -- Don.

LEMON: All right. Ed Henry in Merida, Mexico.

Ed talked about what happens next. Well, we know in the short term that U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales will hold a news conference at 2 p.m. Eastern. We'll bring that to you at the top of our next hour.

CHETRY: Well, they asked, and he told. The nation's top military officer sets off a firestorm with his view of gays in the military and homosexuality in general. Listen to what joint chiefs chairman Peter Pace told the "Chicago Tribune".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. PETER PACE, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: I believe that homosexual acts between individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts. So the don't ask, don't tell allows an individual to serve the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: CNN's Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon.

What has been the reaction to General Pace's comments today, Barbara?

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, pardon me -- well, you know, Kiran, throughout the day, we are beginning to see some reaction from the gay and lesbian community and from Capitol Hill.

Now, the Service Members' Legal Defense Network, which is a group that represents the issue of gays in the military, issued a scathing statement saying, quote, "General Pace's comments are outrageous, insensitive, and disrespectful to the 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces."

The don't ask, don't tell policy, of course, was put into place by Congress about 14 years ago. And what it says is that you may not openly serve as a gay or lesbian person in the U.S. military.

General Pace says he was giving his personal opinion. A bit of controversy erupting about all this. We'll see where it goes -- Kiran.

CHETRY: All right. Barbara Starr, thanks so much.

Later in the hour, we're going to talk about this, both sides of the don't ask, don't tell policy, with a former Marine who came out after he joined the military and also an admiral who had to enforce the policy.

And we want to hear from you. Was it appropriate for the joint chiefs chairman to share his personal views about gays in the military? E-mail us at CNNNEWSROOM@CNN.com. We're going to read some of your comments throughout the afternoon.

LEMON: All right. Let's go back now to Mexico, where President Bush ends his Latin American trip with hopes of starting a new relationship. He crossed a physical border, but he faces a political chasm.

The issue, of course, is immigration. It's thorny, it is divisive, and believe it or not, for some people, it's a tourist attraction.

"AMERICAN MORNING's" Soledad O'Brien joins us from Mexico City.

Soledad, very interesting reporting you have been doing there.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CO-HOST, "AMERICAN MORNING": Yes. It's kind of a bizarre thing, isn't it?

Of course, for the U.S. and these talks stemming the tide of illegal immigration into the United States is a very key issue. But believe it or not, there are many Mexicans on this side of the border who would like to also stem the tide of immigration because -- or migration out of their country, because it's decimating many communities. Twenty percent, by some estimates, of people leave these rural communities. The number's even higher when you get more and more rural.

So imagine our surprise when we heard about a tourist attraction where you can pay $20 and pretend to be a migrant who's making a run for the border. We wondered, was it some kind of training exercise or was this just in really, really, really bad taste?

And imagine our surprise even more when we found out just who was behind it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): Gun fire rings out. U.S. Border Patrol agents discover illegal migrants near the Mexican border. The action is captured on our night scope camera.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you coming alone?

O'BRIEN: But it's all fake. In reality, we're hundreds of miles from the border in Central Mexico. The real Border Patrol says they don't fire on migrants.

This is a tourist adventure run by the Nianu (ph) indigenous people. They say the goal is to keep their people from crossing the border. Their tribe has been decimated: 90 percent of the Nianu (ph) has migrated to the United States.

PONCHO, TOUR LEADER (through translator): This is not training; it's a method of awareness.

O'BRIEN: Human rights groups say it's shocking and insulting. But it's a full house tonight. More than 50 people are in our group, and many are 7-year-olds in scout troops.

We hide in the bushes, cling to rocks to cross the river. We slog through deep mud. We make our way through a tunnel. Our guides urge us to hurry. It's after midnight as we approach the fictional border.

We paid $20 apiece for this tourist adventure. Poncho estimates more than 5,000 people, a mix of Mexicans and others, have done it.

Pilar Saucedo is a Mexican working in Mexico City for an American pharmaceutical company.

PILAR SAUCEDO, TOUR PARTICIPANT: It's not making fun of that. And it's not a kind of training to really cross the border. It's to understand that it's difficult.

O'BRIEN: One o'clock in the morning, and we've made it to the fictional border. Poncho says we're in for a surprise.

(on camera) Not sure where we're going.

(voice-over) In the distance, we see hundreds of little fires, a surprising end to our grueling two hours.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Now, the Border Patrol wants to make it clear, obviously, they do not fire at the migrants or the immigrants coming into the country who they confront. And also nobody blindfolds people and brings them to a really quite spectacular show of lights on the hillside. That's all part of the tourist attraction.

But Don, there's no question about it. It's weird. Think about it, though. They made $1,000 that night, $1,000 U.S. dollars that night, $1,000. In fact, Poncho says, listen, he makes so much money doing what he does, he doesn't have to cross the border. He makes enough money that he can support his family and live in Mexico.

LEMON: Soledad, I am -- I'm speechless. I mean, just watching that report, I can't believe.

O'BRIEN: It's weird.

LEMON: Is the bottom line really money for this guy? Is that what it is? And do people find it enjoyable?

O'BRIEN: This guy --- yes, people were -- yes, they did. People find it enjoyable, but they found it pretty grueling, too.

The bottom line isn't money for one specific individual, Poncho. The bottom line is money for a community. This indigenous group, 90 percent of their people have left.

I mean, they could disappear if everybody leaves and goes up north. They'd lose their culture. This is a Mexican Indian tribe. They lose everything if they lose all their people.

The goal is to try to figure out ways in which to create tourist attractions and make money and stay. They're also working on a botanical garden and some other things, as well. He says he's doing exactly what everybody would want him to do, come up with something that would make tourists visit and spend money.

LEMON: OK. I guess, you know, to each his own. Listen, I've been looking at your pictures and stuff online. Very good reporting there. Thank you so much for joining us, Soledad.

And the issues, the stories, the personal insights, for more on Soledad O'Brien's extensive reporting in Mexico, including -- including her photo gallery, just log on to CNN.com/AM.

CHETRY: Well, we all know what it's like to go through airport security. You've got to take off your shoes, your belt, throw everything into those baskets. So why do airport workers get to sail under the security radar? And what dangers does that open us up to? Ahead in the NEWSROOM, the TSA targets the inside threat.

LEMON: And it's the little black book everybody wants to see, and we may not have to wait much longer. Very interesting. Straight ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM, the so-called D.C. madam shares the what- what on the who's who.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Quarter past the hour. And here are some of the stories we're working on for you in the CNN NEWSROOM.

We're expecting to hear from Attorney General Alberto Gonzales in about 45 minutes. His top has aide resigned amid criticism over the firing of eight federal prosecutors who say they were sacked for political reasons.

He told, and he's not sorry. Joint chiefs chairman Peter Pace says he thinks homosexuality is immoral. Pace tells the "Chicago Tribune" he supports a don't ask, don't tell policy that protects openly gay troops. Gay advocates call the comments outrageous. But Pace's staff says he doesn't plan to apologize.

Should John Couey die for raping and murdering 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford? The Florida jury that convicted Couey is now weighing that question in his sentencing hearing. CHETRY: Well, you can expect some more random screenings of airport workers after last week's bust of a baggage handler from Orlando.

CNN homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve is in Tampa, one of four Florida airports with the beefed up screening -- sorry about that.

Hi.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kiran. The Transportation Security Administration has surged additional personnel into five airports in total. And they say this is just the beginning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE (voice-over): Every day, Audrey Loop does security at Tampa International Airport. Today the tables were turned. When Loop reported for work, she was the one getting a security check, a pat- down, a bag inspection.

This arrest last week is one reason why. Thomas Anthony Munoz is charged with using his airport employee I.D. to smuggle 14 weapons and marijuana into the secure portion of the Orlando Airport and then into the passenger cabin of a plane, which flew to Puerto Rico. While he was in the air, law enforcement got a tip.

EARL MORRIS, TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION: No passengers were a risk, because we knew who the individual was and we had air marshals onboard.

MESERVE: Since then, three more arrests in an alleged airport based drug and weapons smuggling ring. Officials are still investigating its full dimensions.

One of those charged even posted on his web site pictures of himself flaunting cash and weapons and in a cockpit.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good. How are you?

MESERVE: Today, the Transportation Security Administration responded by sending a team of 160 officers into five airports in Florida and Puerto Rico. CNN was given exclusive access.

Not only are there random searches of airport workers and their bags, canine teams are checking vehicles entering secure areas. Access to those areas is being limited at night.

And before passengers board, some planes are getting a closer look as security personnel check for contraband.

The security teams change location every 45 minutes or so. Their goal is to be unpredictable. DARIO COMPAIN, FEDERAL SECURITY DIRECTOR, TAMPA INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT: It's a formidable weapon when the bad people don't know where we're going be, at what time, which door, which hallway.

MESERVE: Is it a foolproof system? Consider this: at Tampa alone, there are 6,300 badge holders with access to secure areas. Nationwide, about 800,000, including the swarms of people who refuel, load, cater, and clean aircraft.

BILL BISHOP, RAMP AGENT: There's so much going on that one would think that anything that you do, will it ever be enough?

MESERVE: All airport workers with access to secure areas are fingerprinted and undergo background checks, but the TSA doesn't have the resources to screen them all daily. So it will move its surge teams unannounced to other airports in the weeks and months ahead, hoping to deter, if not detect.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: Some of the employees here were not particularly happy about these additional inspections. They were in a hurry to get to work and didn't want to take the time.

But others say they recognize that's the price of working in this kind of environment. We talked to one Southwest ramp worker who said, "Hey, this is my company. Security is in my interest. If this is what it takes, so be it."

Kiran, back to you.

CHETRY: All right. Good attitude. Jeanne Meserve, thanks so much.

LEMON: The stress of war takes a toll on soldiers returning from the battlefield. Now high-tech help back here on the home front.

CHETRY: Also, send us an e-mail. We want to know what you think. Was it appropriate for the joint chiefs chairman to share his personal views about gays in the military? E-mail us, CNNNEWSROOM@CNN.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: It's not exactly the most wonderful time of the year. It's tax time. It's approaching.

The good news: you have a couple of extra days to file this year. April 17 is the deadline. Since April 15 falls on a Sunday and April 16 is a legal holiday.

And for people who recently got married, there's now the decision on whether to file jointly or not.

Valerie Morris explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VALERIE MORRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Joy Koehler from Excelsior Springs, Missouri, asks, "I recently married, and I haven't changed my last name yet. Can my husband and I file jointly using two different last names?"

Well, Joy, one thing is for certain, if you tied the knot before December 31 of last year, then you can claim married status on this year's tax return.

What's not so cut and dried is the decision to file jointly or separately. The IRS web site urges married taxpayers to calculate their taxes both ways to see which method results in a lower overall tax bill.

For certain deductions such as medical expenses, only the amount that exceeds 7.5 percent of your total income can be deducted. In such a case, filing separately would lower your income value and increase the likelihood of getting the deduction.

But a few reminders, it's still necessary to change withholding forms at work in addition to updating the information on the tax forms.

And for those women like Joy who haven't legally changed their names or don't plan to, not to worry. Just be sure to file your return using your current legal name.

For "Tax Time Made Easier", I'm Valerie Morris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Send your tax questions to Taxes@CNN.com. And tune in to the NEWSROOM Tuesday and Thursday -- Tuesdays and Thursdays -- for "Tax Time Made Easier" with Valerie Morris.

More NEWSROOM in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: This just in to CNN, General Peter Pace talking about gays in the military, calling homosexuality immoral. New information just coming into the CNN NEWSROOM.

Let's go straight to Barbara Starr. She's at the Pentagon. She has some new information for us.

What do you have, Barbara?

STARR: Well, Don, in a really extraordinary move, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, General Peter Pac, has just put out a statement clarifying his remarks he says that he made to the "Chicago Tribune" in an interview in which he said that homosexual acts were immoral.

General Pace saying he was trying to explain that he supports the military policy of don't ask, don't tell, which prohibits gays from openly serving in the military.

But General Pace goes on to say, and I am quoting from the chairman's statement here, quote, "In expressing my support for the current policy, I also offered some personal opinions about moral conduct. I should have focused more on my support of the policy and less on my personal moral views."

General Pace had made quite a point in that interview of saying that his views about morality and homosexual acts between people was based on his upbringing. That was his -- his characterization of his personal, moral views.

But that certainly has led to some criticism throughout Washington today and from the gay and lesbian community, which had wanted an apology from General Pace. Very critical of his comments about moral behavior. Now he is clarifying those remarks -- Don.

LEMON: So Barbara, just a clarification. He'd said earlier, his staff, he's not apologizing. Is there any note of being conciliatory in this? It's just a clarification, an explanation?

STARR: Well, I think that it's his remarks at the end that he is going to try and focus on where he says, "I should have focused more on my support of the policy and less on my personal, moral views."

Because to be clear, Don, while he was asked about in the interview about his personal view of don't ask, don't tell, he was giving this interview as the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, as the country's top-ranking military officer. And as such, he really doesn't get the luxury, if you will...

LEMON: Right.

STARR: ... of having a personal view about a law that the military enforces against its own members.

So there have been a lot of concern expressed by people that he was getting into his own personal moral code when he, of course, is the chairman of the joint chiefs.

And the key issue that General Pace said he was trying to reflect is don't ask, don't tell really doesn't pass moral judgment on people, in his view. What it is, is it's this paper tiger that's been set up some 14 years ago. It means that you can serve in the military if you are a gay or a lesbian person. You just can't talk about it.

LEMON: Right.

STARR: And that always has been an issue of great sensitivity -- Don.

LEMON: All right. CNN's Barbara Starr with new information. And Barbara, we want to tell our viewers that coming up very shortly in the NEWSROOM, we're going to have a gay former Marine to talk about this issue and also a retired admiral from the Navy. Thank you, Barbara Starr -- Kiran. CHETRY: Thanks so much, Don.

Mortgage meltdown. The sub-prime sector is in a tailspin, and that could have some major repercussions for the industry as well as homeowners. Our Susan Lisovicz is at the New York Stock Exchange with details for us today.

Hi, Susan.

(STOCK REPORT)

LISOVICZ: Coming up, a high-stakes lawsuit. YouTube faces $1 billion challenge from a major media company. Details next hour.

You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news. Now back to Kiran.

CHETRY: Yes, that's another big story you're following for us. Susan, thanks a lot.

LEMON: It is no party for Republicans trying to figure out a favorite for the '08 presidential race. Ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM, we'll break it down by the numbers for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: And we start now with new information on that story. This is a developing story. Just moments ago, our Barbara Starr at the Pentagon reported that the chairman of the joint chiefs, Peter Pace, released a statement clarifying his remarks to the "Chicago Tribune"'s editorial board. He said a couple of things but in essence he says I'm expressing my support for the current policy. I also offered some personal opinions about moral conduct. I should have focused more on my support of the policy and less on my personal moral views. Of course, the joint chief and his staff saying earlier today that he would not apologize for these statements. But today, he is clarifying it, this information just in moments ago.

You wouldn't know it on Capitol Hill, but a new CNN poll by Opinion Research Corporation suggests there might be a little less opposition outside of the beltway to sending more troops to Iraq. Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider joins us from Washington to crunch the numbers for us. Really, more support?

BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A little bit. There's slightly less opposition. When the policy was announced in January, the public was shocked because the president was acting in direct defiance of public opinion. You can see in January, over on the lower right, two- thirds of Americans opposed the president's proposal to build up American troops in Iraq. What is it now? It's 59 percent. That's still a majority opposed to this policy. And as you can see, the margin of opposition is greater than 20 points, 37 percent favor it, 59 percent oppose. But it's a little less intense -- a little less intense than it was in January. For one thing, the policy is now under way. The troops are going to Iraq and a lot of Americans are reluctant to criticize troops who are already beginning to arrive in combat. And second of all, a lot of the Republican leaders in Congress, including Senator McCain, have said let's give the plan a chance. He said that there are some glimmers of success and it looks like a few Americans are willing to do that -- a few more.

LEMON: OK, so, Bill if moved, we can say up about five percentage points with the margin of error is not really -- you never really know. So it's not overwhelming support but you said it has shifted just a little bit.

SCHNEIDER: There's a little bit of a shift, that's right.

LEMON: Let's move on. Let's talk about Republicans, talk about the new possible presidential contenders. Republicans and new polls show that dissatisfaction with the presidential candidates, right, is that correct? Does this have anything to do with Giuliani being sort of the conservative, liberal candidate so to speak?

SCHNEIDER: A lot of candidates like Giuliani despite his views. A lot of them understand what his views are. But they feel -- he said he'd appoint strict constructionist judges and they're willing to go along with that because he is someone they thought showed strong leadership after 9/11. You just saw in that poll, a majority of Republicans say they want more choices. They're not satisfied with the choices they now have. They've got 10 candidates, Don, 10? How much do they need?

LEMON: I was going to ask you. The field already seems so crowded. You can't pick one from the already crowded field on both sides -- Republican and Democrat.

SCHNEIDER: That's right. It is very crowded. Some conservatives are unhappy with the field because none of the leading candidates who have the greatest support are fully acceptable to conservatives. They really don't feel as if they have a standard bearer in this contest. And a lot of Republicans are aware that the voters, including a lot of Republicans themselves, want change. They're unhappy with Washington, the Walter Reed story, the Libby verdict. They think things are going badly, the mishandling of the war in Iraq. Americans want change. They're looking for a candidate who offers a very strong sense of change. A lot of Republicans think that should be in the more conservative direction. Some think it should be someone more critical of the war in Iraq. It looks like the 10 choices they now have are not quite enough.

LEMON: And you know, it's already early on. So you know what, we still have a whole lot of time, Bill Schneider, don't you think?

SCHNEIDER: We do.

LEMON: All right, thank you so much. We appreciate that. Of course, all the day's political news is available anytime day or night at cnn.com/ticker.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSROOM: Quick reflexes - they're vital on the battlefield, but what if you can't turn them off?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every time I hear a new noise, I can feel my heart starting to pound, I have a little bit shakes with my hands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: Ahead in the NEWSROOM, Dr. Sanjay Gupta on defusing post traumatic stress using technology.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Thousands upon thousands of U.S. troops are returning from Iraq or Afghanistan physically bruised and battered. But for many, the mental toll is just as great. There's a new study saying that almost a third of recent war veterans seeking government health care suffer mental or psychosocial problems and the most common is post traumatic stress disorder. Other problems include anxiety, adjustment disorder and depression. Researchers say that young veterans, 18 to 24 years old appear to be the most at risk. The study is based on data for more than 100,000 veterans. It's out today in the "Archives of Internal Medicine."

LEMON: And Kiran, post traumatic stress disorder gained attention after Vietnam and prompted new efforts to treat it. Our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta looks at one technique being used to help troops today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): I was experiencing the reality of war. But, in fact, it was virtual reality of war. Helpless, totally helpless. And really, really scared because I thought I was going die and I didn't die like that. I wasn't ready for what would happen. It was perhaps as unnerving, as intense and as disturbing experience as I could imagine. Every time I hear a new noise, I can feel my heart starting to pound. I have a little bit of shakes with my hands.

Here at the Naval Medical Center in San Diego, therapists use video game technology to help Iraq vets overcome PTSD. They take the vets back virtually to the place where their trauma began. It's an electronic deja vu. They feel as if it's real -- the sights, sounds, vibrations, even the smells of the Iraq war, but in a safe environment. I experienced it for myself with the help of Dr. Mary Rose Gerardi (ph) at Emory University in Atlanta, one of the therapy's test sites. I was quickly brought back to my time covering the war in Iraq.

MARY ROSE GERARDI, EMORY U: Right now, you're sitting in the Humvee. I'd like you to just move ahead slowly.

GUPTA: That's wild.

GERARDI: You can certainly stand up if you would like. But please, be careful. Now as we go along, what I can do is add stimuli along the way that hopefully will elicit some of your specific memory. For instance -

GUPTA: Helicopters flying overhead.

GERARDI: I'm going to give you something that's a little bit more disturbing.

GUPTA: That is really frightening. You have no idea what's happening right now. Just two of our vehicles have just -- looked like they have exploded, can't tell if they're our vehicles, trying to get out of there as quickly as possible. I can feel my heart rate just starting to pound. It looks like we just took some gun fire. More gun fire.

GERARDI: Now, I would be asking you if we were working on a specific memory to be recounting your memory and confronting that memory.

GUPTA: The one time when we were driving along and all of a sudden our convoy came under fire.

GERARDI: What happened next?

GUPTA: It was nighttime. We saw all these tracer fire, I guess, hitting the front of the convoy in front of us. And we all just ducked down into the truck as low as we could go. And literally sort of covering your head and making sure your helmet -- chin strap is on as tight as it can be.

GERARDI: Mm-hmm. What were you feeling at that point?

GUPTA: Helpless, totally helpless, and really, really scared because I thought I was going to die. I didn't want to die like that. I am very uncomfortable right now, especially as I -- I'm trying to get this thing to get us out of here as quickly as possible. Every time I hear a new noise, I can feel my heart starting to pound. I have a little bit of the shakes with my hands.

GERARDI: What I would be doing also at this point Sanjay is asking you to rate your level of anxiety on a scale from zero to 100.

GUPTA: 90. I don't feel good at all right now.

GERARDI: But the goal as we had talked about is to confront the fear memory in a safe place. You don't want to avoid it. Confront it and find out that you can habituate to that level of anxiety. You can be OK with it.

GUPTA: I have to tell you, I was stunned by my reaction. I know it's only a stimulation, but my reaction was so powerful. What I didn't show you was that I went through that simulation two more times. I can't say that it ever really got easier, but I did feel more in control. And from what the psychologists tell me, that's the goal, face your fears until you can control them, maybe even defeat them. This therapy is only available on a limited basis, but it does seem to be effective at treating our warriors who are coming home. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta. (END VIDEOTAPE)

CHETRY: It's a catch phrase with a catch, ahead in the NEWSROOM, a former Marine describes don't ask don't tell from a gay man's perspective.

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CHETRY: Well you can serve if you're gay, but only if you keep it a secret. Otherwise, in the military, you're out. Some former military minds and lawmakers too say that it's time to revoke the don't ask, don't tell policy, but not the nation's top man in uniform. We're going to listen now to what Joint Chief Chairman Peter Pace told the "Chicago Tribune."

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GEN. PETER PACE, JOINT CHIEFS CHMN: I believe that homosexual acts between individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts. So the don't ask don't tell allows an individual to serve the country.

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CHETRY: And moments ago, General Pace issued a statement, a clarifying statement, he said, saying he should have been focused more on his support for the policy and less on his, quote, personal moral views. Joining us from Washington to talk about this, Brian Fricke who joined the Marines and left after revealing that he was gay. Thanks for being with us Brian.

BRIAN FRICKE, GAY FORMER MARINE: Thank you Kiran.

CHETRY: What in your opinion is the point or the value at all of the don't ask don't tell policy?

FRICKE: There is none. As he said, he was using morals to governing policy and the way he's supporting it. We used that I believe, it was manifest destiny also with slavery, Salem witch trials. We start using our morals and we start getting off track. We signed up to defend our nation. All we want is equal servitude.

CHETRY: So when you joined the military, explain how you went through it. You joined, didn't tell people that you were gay and then you come out when you were in the military.

FRICKE: Right, as you start to build stronger bonds and you come out to people that you trust and that helps with your working environment. You start to be able to work without being fearful of what you're going to say next or what you're going to do. In Iraq, if something were to explode and you had to take cover and maybe you were on your down time and you were writing a letter, the first thing on your mind is to conceal your evidence, conceal any evidence that they can link to you being gay and so you start getting off track. You're not always focused on the mission because of don't ask don't tell, you're constantly paranoid. CHETRY: And so the other thing, the thing that - you said the reason that you did share with some of your fellow Marines that you were gay is because you felt closer to them. In fact, because of the policy, it would actually isolate you more because now you're doing what the policy says not to do which is tell.

FRICKE: Right, exactly.

CHETRY: So did anyone tell on you? Did anyone make an issue?

FRICKE: No. The responses I always got -- the very first response which was very nerve wracking as I waited for him to respond to me telling him, he said it's no big deal. We continued working. We finished our mission and it was no issue. In Iraq, I came out to several others and again, I had accepting responses. These are small units. We're in small unit levels and those up on high haven't been part of a small unit in quite sometime. I think as they start saying, oh, it's a detriment to unit cohesion. They're right. We're not able to assimilate into the unit as we could.

CHETRY: What do you think the solution is?

FRICKE: The solution is, you know, Congressman Meehan's bill. That's going to change a lot of the ways that we live in this country. We're still in the civil rights era. I think that's also going to help us on that end. But our national security, we need to bring back our linguists. We need to reinstate them. We need to put their skills to use instead of sending them away.

CHETRY: And so now we're in the middle of a situation in Iraq and there's a lot to be discussed and this is a big focus at least in the news because of Pace's comments. Thanks for sharing your personal story, Brian.

FRICKE: Thank you.

CHETRY: We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, we're going to talk more about why the don't ask don't tell policy was crafted, what was the purpose of it and are there solutions? We're going to speak with a former Navy admiral about all of that coming up.

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CHETRY: A quick look now at the military policy on gays serving. It's known as don't ask, don't tell. It was signed into law by President Clinton back in 1994. And it says that gays and lesbians may serve in the military as long as they keep their sexual orientation private. Commanders are not allowed to ask about it. The policy applies to all military personnel, not just troops. So joining me now to talk about how this actually plays out in the chain of command, Retired Admiral John Hutson. Thanks so much for being with us Admiral.

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN HUTSON, U.S. NAVY (RET): Nice to be here.

CHETRY: How did the policy come to pass because I understand you were there when this was being crafted.

HUTSON: Well, President Clinton came into office and this was at the top of his agenda to open the ranks to gays and lesbians and it took us a couple of years to come up with what turned out to be known as don't tell which was a compromise. And like a lot of compromises, I suppose it kind of had some advantages. It certainly had some disadvantages. But basically, it bought us time to -- to get to where we are now which I think is a point at which we ought to make the change.

CHETRY: And by change, you mean to say gays don't have to hide their sexuality to serve in the military?

HUTSON: That's exactly right and we were very concerned back in the early 1990s about unit cohesion. That's the key to an effective military, the mission in the military being to fight and win the nation's wars. Unit cohesion is the essence of that. In '92 and '93, we weren't sure what the impact would be of bringing gays into the units openly.

CHETRY: Right.

HUTSON: Now, I think that in 2007, we're at a stage where it won't degrade unit cohesion. It actually will enhance unit cohesion to tell both the gays and the straights, you're mature, you're disciplined. You can deal with this.

CHETRY: The thing -- what happened before that -- when you say that they wanted to make it OK for gays and lesbians. Gays and lesbians were serving in the military before a policy was on paper.

HUTSON: Sure, absolutely.

CHETRY: In your argument, it actually became more difficult because gays had to go more underground.

HUTSON: That's absolutely right. We had don't ask don't tell before there was don't ask don't tell. Everybody knew that there were gays in the military. You frequently knew exactly who they were as Brian said earlier in the segment. We -- -- it wasn't a problem at the boots on the ground level. When we actually put it in statute, kind of to our surprise, I guess, that in a large way created the problem because now you had a law and you had to discipline people. It was against the law to act out your sexuality. And that in and of itself took what had been rather benign and made it a problem.

CHETRY: Interesting perspective, from Rear Admiral John Hutson, U.S. Navy retired. Thanks for joining us to talk about it today.

HUTSON: You're welcome.

LEMON: And we're expecting developments on another story. That's a live look there in Washington at a news conference from U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on the fallout from the firing of several U.S. attorneys. He is scheduled to speak at 2:00 p.m. Eastern just a couple of minutes here. The cameras are there. You can see there, we'll bring that to you when it happens. We'll be right back.

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