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Shooting in Idaho; New York Police Shooting; Iraq Update
Aired May 20, 2007 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CENTER, ATLANTA: Hello, I'm Fredricka Whitfield, and you're in THE NEWSROOM.
At this hour, a town in western Idaho, Moscow, is at a loss to explain a shooting rampage. What began last night ended just before dawn when S.W.A.T. teams burst into a church and found two bodies. One of them the gunman who had opened fire on a courthouse, then fired on police who responded. Police say a total of three people died, including the gunman, and two were wounded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID DUKE, ASST. POLICE CHIEF: At 5:51 a.m. this morning, three SWAT teams entered the church. A white male who we believe was the shooter was located in the sanctuary area and was deceased from a gunshot to the head.
One other deceased male was located in the church office. At this time, there are no other victims that we have identified.
Deputy Brandon Jordan (ph) is currently listed in serious condition at Rittman Hospital. The civilian victim is listed in stable condition. Officer Lee Newbill (ph) succumbed to his injuries and it is heartbreaking to report to you that he died in the line of duty, the first in the history of the Moscow Police Department to do such.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Well, joining us now live with the latest on this story, Kara Kostanich of CNN affiliate KREM. So what more can you tell us, Kara, about who this gunman and the victims.
KARA KOSTANICH, KREM-TV CORRESPONDENT: Fred, it's a very solemn day here in Moscow. Police have told us that one of the two officers wounded in this tragic scenario has died. He'd been with the department since 2001. He leaves behind a wife and three grown children. And of course he was the first officer to be killed in the line of duty here in this department.
Now the other deputy and civilian also wounded, we're told, are in serious condition right now. Now police tells us they've also found two men dead in the Presbyterian Church here. Now they believe one of those men is the gunman. And that church is of course where that gunfire originated, according to police.
We're told that gunman opened fire around 11:00 p.m. last night, shooting 75 rounds into the county courthouse here. Now the identity and the motive is unknown right now. Fred?
WHITFIELD: All right, Kara Kostanich, thanks for that update out of Moscow, Idaho.
Well, New York City police now have a new shooting on its hand. An investigation. The dead man wasn't armed. And before the incident Friday, the off-duty officer had never fired his weapon in his eight years as a cop. Here now is CNN'S Mary Snow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is how it ended. A mini van charred. Inside, the driver, 41-year-old Fermin Arzu, unarmed and dead. Fatally shot by an off-duty New York City police officer. Distraught family members gathered in the Bronx near the scene, calling for justice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cop that shot my father, he needs to pay for all of this, because he left me and my brother here alone.
SNOW: It happened late Friday night. Police say Arzu slammed head on onto a parked car and left the scene. Raphael Lora, an off-duty police officer, was on foot. And confronted the driver at a nearby intersection. Exactly what happened next is the subject of investigation. Witnesses, according to police, say the officer was at the driver's side. The door was open. And the car lurched forward. One man parking a car nearby says he heard the gunshots.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we parked, we turned off of the car. And that's when we heard the gunshots. It was like six, seven gunshots.
SNOW: Police say the off-duty officer fired five times, hitting the driver once in the lower back and striking the car with the other four bullets. They say the officer has never fired his gun while on duty. He's been on the force since 1999.
Police say that after he was shot, Arzu kept driving for two more blocks before his mini van jumped the curb and went up in flames. The shooting comes at a time when the use of deadly force by New York City police is under intense scrutiny. Last November, five plain-clothes officers opened fire on a car of three unarmed men, killing Sean Bell hours before his wedding. Two others were seriously injured. A grand jury has indicted two officers on manslaughter charges in that November shooting. Both officers have pled not guilty.
This latest shooting is being investigated by police and the Bronx district attorney's office. The National Action Network founded by the Reverend Al Sharpton says it will do the same.
KIRSTEN FOY, NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: He lost his life as a result of an impromptu, impetuous and in our estimation, unnecessary action by an off-duty police officer.
SNOW: Officer Lora cannot be reached for comment but the Patrolman's Benevolent Association, which is providing a lawyer for him, said in a statement, "Those who make snap judgments without all of the facts do not serve the best interest of the city are those involved in the incident."
Officer Lora has been placed on desk duty as the Bronx district attorney's officer takes the lead on the investigation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (on camera): Now one big question, Fredricka, is whether the officer identified himself when he confronted the driver. Police say one witness recalls seeing the officer's badge around his neck. But it's not clear if the officer verbally identified himself as NYPD. Fredricka?
WHITFIELD: All right. Still lots of questions to be hammered out. Mary Snow, thanks so much.
Well, a bus from Ohio, to New York City flipped over earlier this morning. Two people died in that crash in central Pennsylvania. Police say the bus apparently veered off Interstate 80, swerved back, and then crashed. Most passengers were Asian and investigators say they're sure not sure what happened. Some 32 people were injured including a toddler.
And now to Iraq, where 15 U.S. soldiers have been killed since Friday. Today the military announced seven more soldier deaths. They were all killed on Saturday. A roadside bomb claimed six of them and their Iraqi interpreter in western Baghdad.
One U.S. soldier was killed and two others wounded when an explosive device blew up in Diwaniya. These soldiers were involved in the search for missing U.S. troops.
So far this month, 71 U.S. soldiers have been killed in Iraq and since the war began, 3,422 U.S. service people have lost their lives.
Patrols are searching around the clock near Yusufiya for any signs of the three U.S. soldiers missing last week. The military began draining a canal after farmers gave them a possible tip. We get the latest from CNN's Arwa Damon. She is embedded with one of the search patrols.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the Janabi run (ph) Canal that runs from the Euphrates River to the Janabi village, a former Sunni insurgent stronghold. It is the second canal that the U.S. military has drained in this area, following tips that the bodies of the three missing soldiers may have been dumped here.
Now this company has been searching the canal and the reed line running alongside it, trying to look for clues. They also found shell casings from a Dragunov sniper rifle. Further down, U.S. military found what they initially thought may have been an American boot but it wasn't.
CPT. SHANE FINN, U.S. ARMY: You want to find the clues, because you want so badly to return these soldiers to their families. But the same token, you don't want it to be that boot because it could then mean other things. So I'm not sure if I am relieved or happy right now or sad. I don't know.
DAMON: This area is about seven or eight miles away from the site of the attack. But it is significant. Because back in October, this very same company found the flak jacket belonging to one of the 101st soldiers that were killed and kidnapped about a year ago. That flak jacket found along the southern reed line. This is all part of, the U.S. military says, its promise that it will leave no stone unturned to find its missing men.
Arwa Damon, CNN near Yusufiya, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: The military says months of different searches have paid off. They say they've tracked down and killed the ringleader of an insurgent attack on U.S. troops. It happened back in January in Karbala. One of the U.S. soldiers was killed on the spot. Four others were kidnapped and later killed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM CALDWELL, MULTINATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ: Anybody who kidnaps an American soldier and murders them, we're going to continue to hunt down and that's exactly what we'll be doing with this guy. Asar al Dulaymi (ph). We found him finally Friday morning. Went in on a precision operation to capture him and in the pursuing an engagement that had occurred, he was killed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: And after the deadly violence in northern Lebanon, gun battles erupted in the Palestinian refugee camp outside of Tripoli today. Lebanese tanks fired on militants linked to al Qaeda. At least 32 people were killed. Most of them Lebanese soldiers. Phil Black has the latest on the bloodshed there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lebanese troops trying to arrest members of the Fatah al Islam militant group, but they fought back.
Streets in and around Lebanon's second largest city became the scene of an urban battle. Gunmen holed up in buildings, firing from windows and rooftops, while soldiers on the street replied with an awesome barrage of firepower.
Here Lebanese troops direct their weapons on a building with suspected militants inside. Thousands of rounds. And a rocket-propelled grenade.
Residents sought shelter from crossfire but some, including children, were reportedly among the casualties.
People rushed to recover soldiers cut down in the fight but they could do nothing to help this man. He was shot in the head.
Fatah al Islam fighters also attacked army positions at a nearby refugee camp. Home to around 30,000 Palestinians. Lebanon responded with reinforcements, including tanks.
In a statement, the militants said they would open the gates of fire if the army did not back off. But a Lebanese minister said the uprising was beaten before the day's end.
AHMED FATFAT, LEBANESE GOVERNMENT MINISTER: I can say under control about 90 percent of the control is to be 100 percent in short time. We have still too very small position (ph) for Fatah al Islam
BLACK: The Lebanese government says Fatah al Islam has links to al Qaeda and is supported by Syria. Syria denies this. But some Lebanese politicians believe this violence was designed to unsettle United Nations plans, for an international tribunal to try suspects in the murder of Lebanon's Prime Minister Rafik Hariri two years ago. Syria has also denied involvement in that killing but still opposes the tribunal.
Phil Black, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: And just within the last hour, more explosions have been heard out of Beirut. We're checking our sources. When we get anymore information on that, we'll be able to bring that to you.
The Israeli Cabinet made a formal decision today to make Palestinian militants pay a higher price for rocket attacks on Israel. Details aren't clear, but today Israel launched its deadliest air strike yet since it started responding last Tuesday to the attacks being blamed on Hamas. At least eight people were killed in the Gaza City. That's home of a powerful Hamas lawmaker. He was not home at the time.
Despite the Israeli attack, militants fired at least 12 rockets today at the embattled Israeli town of Sderot. One rocket destroyed an Indian restaurant.
Firefighters are still busy from coast-to-coast in this country. The latest on what progress they are making. Plus a look at the weather forecast straight ahead.
Plus, a remarkable rescue story for two fishermen who had to swim for their lives in the Gulf of Mexico.
And later, the fight over immigration reform. What can we expect out of Congress this week?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: You're looking at pictures there of a fast moving wildfire in Southern California. Just look at the smoke. It has charred more than 2,500 acres and chased thousands of people from campsites near the Los Padres National Forest. Firefighters are making substantial progress, however. The blaze is 50 percent surrounded right now and officials say it may be fully contained by tonight.
And this is what Florida firefighters are dealing with. Every single red dot represents a wildfire actively burning right now in this embattled state. The largest crosses the state line into Georgia. The Bugaboo fire which is now 90 percent contained. But weather conditions could cause problems today. And officials are warning residents who just returned to their homes to keep their bags packed just in case they have to evacuate again.
Jacqui Jeras is in the severe weather center. I have a feeling the folks in Florida and Georgia along the state line are getting kind of tired of this.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I would imagine so. This has been going on for a month for some of them. So it really is a big deal. And just really affects your quality of life, too. We've had a lot of road closures and I-10 and I-75, both have been kind of spotty. Opening and closing on and off over the past couple of weeks.
As for California, so far, you know, overall, the number of acres that have burned this year compared to last year up to this time is lower. So it just seems really concentrated. Especially in Florida and Georgia.
Those folks say, yeah, right. But anyway, weather conditions, not ideal here across California. But much worse across parts of the Great Basin here. Into Utah, down into Arizona, and into Nevada. That's where we have critical fire weather conditions because the winds are very strong here. Not to mention the extremely low humidity.
Now we are concerned about more fires starting especially across the four corners here. Look at all of these live lightning strikes that you see here. Very dry conditions across much of the West. So we are worried that these lightning strikes could trigger some more.
In fact in the Black Hills here, fire officials say that they've had at least three fires started over the weekend but they've gotten them out very, very quickly because they're on high alert and you could see those lightning strikes right around Rapid City with a severe thunderstorm watch and a watch box in effect here and that includes you in eastern parts of Montana.
Now those of you in Florida and Georgia, red flag warnings are still flying. Winds around 10 to 15 miles per hour with very low humidity. Most the rain's been down here in South Florida. Some flooding this morning out of the Miami area. If we could show you those picture very quickly.
Five to seven inches rain fell in a very short period of time. This is in extreme northeastern parts of the county, near Miami Beach. Looking for more showers and thunderstorms in the forecast there over the next couple of days. They need it, though, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: They did. It had been dry for so long, but enough already with the rain. JERAS: Well, they need more, though. They've got a big drought. Keep bringing it.
WHITFIELD: Spread it out.
JERAS: Just not so much at one time.
WHITFIELD: Right, exactly. All right, Jacqui, thanks so much.
Well, now, get a load of this. A harrowing tale of survivor. Two fishermen spent nearly 48 hours drifting in the ocean after their boat had overturned. Both are safe now. Good news. Ryan Korsgard with our Texas affiliate KPRC has their unbelievable story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RYAN KORSGARD, KPRC CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Our Coast Guard helicopter from Houston searches the water about 40 miles off of Freeport. Rescuers were looking for two Friendswood fishermen. Their boat capsized Wednesday morning. Seasoned pilots know just how hard it is to spot survivors out here.
LT. JUSTO RIVERA, U.S. COAST GUARD: It's the proverbial needle in the hay stack.
KORSGARD: Aaron Pilcher and his friend Michael Prahm (ph)< who were fishing when their boat started to fill with water. Pilcher swam about two hours to an oil rig to get help and to call his wife.
CRYSTAL PILCHER, SURVIVOR'S WIFE: And I thought I was dreaming. Hearing his voice was the most amazing thing ever. So I'm very, very thankful that he's alive and he's OK.
KORSGARD: Prahm, though was still in the water. The Coast Guard found him.
RIVERA: He was in between the overturned vessel and the rig. Approximately a mile to a mile and a half away. They made a discovery. And they brought him on board the cutter.
KORSGARD: The two fishermen went to the hospital in Angleton for a check-up. Pilcher's dad was outside of the emergency room.
VIC PILCHER, SURVIVOR'S FATHER: Words can't describe, a father's worst nightmare to see your son, not knowing where they're at. And then to finally get the great news that he's alive and well.
KORSGARD: Now sunburned and tired, Pilcher and his friend are out the hospital. Lifelong fishermen safely back at home.
V. PILCHER: The Gulf takes back a let and it doesn't give back very much. This time, God saved him. For a reason.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Well that was Ryan Korsgard with our Houston affiliate KPRC.
Well, it's official, gas prices are now at an all-time high. According to the Lundberg survey, the national average for a gallon of regular self-serve is, get ready for this, $3.18. But they should be dancing in Charleston, South Carolina. Home of the lowest average price. A mere $2.87 a gallon. And sorry, Chicago, at $3.59, you're paying the most at the pump.
Was more than one person involved in the shooting of President John F. Kennedy? New research raises that possibility.
And Michael Moore has taken his new movie "Sicko" to Cannes. What is the film world saying about his attack on the U.S. medical system?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN F. KENNEDY, DECEASED FORMER PRESIDENT: Wherever they may live ...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: John Fitzgerald Kennedy, more than 40 years after his death, his assassination is still a source of heated debate. And now new research casts even more doubt about that fateful day in Dallas. CNN's Brian Todd has the latest in the myriad of questions.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEE HARVEY OSWALD, ACCUSED OF ASSASSINATING PRESIDENT KENNEDY: But I emphatically deny these charges.
TODD (voice over): For more than four decades, the government's official finding has said Lee Harvey Oswald fired three bullet at John F. Kennedy and two of them hit the president. But the authors of a new study claim the modern science they used may disprove that.
PROF. CLIFF SPIEGELMAN, TEXAS A&M UNIV.: There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that there are only two bullets from two groups. And...
TODD: Texas A&M University professor Cliff Spiegelman, and his research team that includes a former FBI forensics expert, say the old finding that bullet fragments found at the assassination scene in Dallas could have come from only two bullets because no two bullets are identical is flawed. The team acquired other bullets from the same batches that Oswald used, chemically tested them against data from the fragments at the scene.
And...
SPIEGELMAN: One of our 30 bullets matched the assassination fragment.
TODD: That means, this new study says, three or more separate bullets could have struck the president. And if that's the case, a second assassin is likely. That's because only three casings were found near Oswald's rifle, and any additional bullet couldn't be traced to him.
But before all the conspiracy theories and references to the grassy knoll are rekindled, one researcher says hold on. Former prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi, out with a new book on the assassination, says the theory of other bullet matches is not new. He doesn't discount that it's possible, but says that it doesn't translate into another gunman.
VINCENT BUGLIOSI, AUTHOR, "RECLAIMING HISTORY": No bullets other than the three ejected from Oswald's rifle has ever been found and linked with the assassination. No weapon other than Oswald's Mannlicher- Carcano weapon has ever been found and linked with the assassination.
What I'm saying is that you have to look at the totality of evidence.
TODD (on camera): Cliff Spiegelman says all he wants is for all of the bullet fragments found at the scene to be reanalyzing using modern techniques. The downside to that, Spiegelman says modern chemical testing will destroy those fragments. Historical evidence, gone forever. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: The fight over immigration has fueled a war of strong words between senators and strong debate across the country. We'll look at what the biggest sticking points are straight ahead in THE NEWSROOM.
The decision to donate organs can create strong feelings when a loved one dies. We'll tell you about some new ideas that could make the process a bit easier.
And soldiers injured in Iraq are diving for relief.
We'll show you a program where some of those wounded in war can go underwater to reclaim their lives.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: It's half past the hour and here's what's happening right now. Three people are dead in Moscow, Idaho, after an overnight police standoff ended with an apparent suicide. Police say the gunman fatally shot one civilian and police officer Lee Newbill (ph) before turning the gun on himself. Newbill is the first officer in that city's history to be killed in the line of duty.
And the sun has set on a violent day in northern Lebanon. The country's security forces on a losing end with a battle with militants reportedly to be affiliated with al Qaeda. Twenty-two soldiers have been killed compared to two reported militant deaths. The bloodshed has prompted Syria to close two of its border crossings into Lebanon.
Mention illegal immigration and you can spark a pretty passionate debate these days. That's especially true on Capitol Hill, where tempers flared between Senators John McCain and John Cornyn. Department of Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff spoke about their exchange on CNN's LATE EDITION today. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Sure, tempers get hot. My temper got hot sometimes, too. Because you're dealing with issues that are emotional. But you also had people who are prepared ultimately to put their emotions to one side. And forge a workable solution, which I think is what the public's been craving over the last couple of decades.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITIFELD: Our Gary Nurenberg has more on the McCain-Cornyn flare-up.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY NURENBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Talk about understatement.
SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS, (R) GA: I've never seen a more emotion, more sensitive, a more politically-charged issue than the issue of immigration reform.
NURENBERG: No kidding. He was speaking within hours Thursday of a blow up between border state senators John Cornyn of Texas and John McCain of Arizona after Cornyn objected to details of the new bill. Sources familiar with the meeting quote McCain saying "F you" after Cornyn complained McCain had been playing insufficient attention to immigration because of his presidential campaign.
No comment from Cornyn. The McCain campaign confirms there was a quote, "heated exchange."
MORGAN FLECHNER, CAMPAIGNS AND ELECTIONS MAGAZINE: His temper flaring on this issues really doesn't help him in the presidential campaign with voters.
NURENBERG (on camera): McCain is cosponsoring the immigration bill which Republican critics have described as providing amnesty to immigrants who are in the country illegally. McCain concedes the legislation is a compromise.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm sure that there are certain provisions that each of us would not agree with. But this is what the legislative process is all about.
NURENBERG (voice-over): McCain's high-profile endorsement of the bill could hurt him with Republican primary voters, according to the editor of "Campaigns and Elections Magazine," Morgan Felchner.
FELCHNER: A lot of other Republican candidates who disagree with them. And a lot of Republican voters on the ground also disagree with him. He's creating this problem within the party for himself. Where he could be focusing on things that are good for him, things that people do agree with him on.
NURENBERG: The visuals alone, McCain ling up with liberal Democrats like Dianne Feinstein and Edward Kennedy, may make some primary voters question McCain's conservative credentials. Making his endorsement of the bill riskier still. Gary Nurenberg, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Debate on the new immigration reform bill is expected to begin tomorrow. And it could be a pretty drawn-out process. The White House backs the plan even though some Republican critics say it gives amnesty to criminals. Our White House correspondent Elaine Quijano is in Crawford, Texas with more. Elaine, what's the expectation there?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, and Fredricka, this is a highly-charged debate, as you just noted. And particularly for the GOP, immigration is a deeply-divisive issue.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO (voice-over): Battered by critics on the left and right, top Bush administration officials staunchly defended the immigration deal they helped broker with members of the Senate.
CARLOS GUTIERREZ, COMMERCE SECRETARY: It is not amnesty. We've said it's not amnesty. I have the impression that perhaps, for some people, the only thing that would not be amnesty is mass deportation
QUIJANO: The White House's defense posture is due in large part to conservative Republicans, who argue that offering illegal immigrants any chance at citizenship amounts to amnesty.
REP. BRIAN BILBRAY, (R) CA: The worst thing that you can do if you try to control illegal immigration is reward 12 to 20 illegal aliens with citizenship and permanent residency.
QUIJANO: But the deal's backers insist people who've broken the law by entering the United States illegally will face punishments.
CHERTOFF: I think we've squared this circle. We've had real penalties. We've put people at the back of the line.
QUIJANO: The deal is also drawing criticism from some Democrats, who say it places limits on family reunification in favor of the needs of future employers.
SEN. CARL LEVIN, (D) MI: It does not promote family reunification. And instead gives apparently a preference to those specific skills. So that is a troubling feature of it, and it may be changed on the Senate floor.
QUIJANO: Despite disagreements, a key Republican predicted enough GOP support in the House to pass the measure.
BILBRAY: I think it passes if big business is able to, basically, put the pressure on. And say, we give you Republicans a lot of money. We want you to deliver us a cheap vote.
(END VIDEOTAPE) QUIJANO (on camera): Now the Bush administration stresses that the legislation also includes increased security measures. Including more agents patrolling the U.S.-Mexico border. Debate on the issue starts in the Senate tomorrow. Fredricka?
WHITFIELD: All right, Elaine Quijano, thanks so much. And of course we'll be watching this all week. But first, let's talk more about the issue. No matter which side of the debate you're on, solving the problem of illegal immigration is no easy task.
The book "The New American Pioneers" takes an in-depth look at complex issues related to Mexican immigration. Juan Hernandez is the author. He joins us live from Dallas, Texas. Good to see you.
JUAN HERNANDEZ, AUTHOR, "THE NEW AMERICAN PIONEERS": Good to see you.
WHITFIELD: So what do you see as the upside as well as the downside to this latest proposal?
HERNANDEZ: Well, to start with, I think the upside to all of this is that now we're discussing the details. And very important details. But no one is saying that we shouldn't legalize these good 12 million people that are, in many respects enriching our lives here, the United States and keeping our economy afloat. You have, yes, on the House. You have some of the Democrats of course that are saying wait a minute, this touchback. Why are we having people -- why create this bureaucracy, where everyone has to leave the country and then come back in legally?
There are others, of course, some of the Republicans are saying, no. These are all -- if they have all broken the laws, they should all leave the country and bring them in one by one.
But nevertheless, we do have a bill now in the Senate, that in some respects is very close to the bill also in the House. We didn't have that next -- last year.
WHITFIELD: But wait a minute, you do have people who are saying, why reward anyone who's entered this country illegally a path to citizenship?
HERNANDEZ: Yes you do have people saying that. But up to 76 percent of U.S. Americans say, wait a minute, if these people have no criminal record. If these people are willing to pay taxes. If they're willing to pay a fine, if they're willing to work on their English, willing to pay Social Security and taxes, well, they're already in many respects good citizens, why don't we go ahead and solve the problem.
WHITFIELD: But then therein lies the argument of those who are here illegally, whether they have no criminal record or not, whether they have maintained a job, raised a family here, et cetera, you're awarding them amnesty, say some, by giving them the path to citizenship. After breaking the law by coming here illegally.
HERNANDEZ: Well, you know the good thing about both the Gutierrez- Flake and both this new bill coming from the Senate that in many respects like the McCain-Kennedy is we're not doing with we did in '86 and '87.
Reagan passed the amnesty in '86, '87 and I don't know why people are so afraid of that word "amnesty," but it was the right thing at that moment. But Reagan did not create a new program. Now both sides, House and the Senate, are saying let's legalize the undocumented and let's create a new program, in which we bring in about 400,000 people. Which is what we need every year.
WHITFIELD: So what do you say to some of those who say, this announcement of this very plan, whether it makes its way into law or not, certainly might open the floodgates for a number of people to plan their exodus from their country. Try to get illegal entry into this country so that if indeed a law like this comes into play, they will get a chance to that path of citizenship by way of this new law, if it becomes one.
HERNANDEZ: Well, I know that some people are concerned about that. Nevertheless, both bills, the one from the House and the one from the Senate, put all kinds of provisions that you must have been here before 2005. You must have been here at least before January of last year. Et cetera. And put some very, very stern fines to the employers who might contract people once the legalization process does go through.
WHITFIELD: So given you were the first American to be a Cabinet member to Mexico, what's your understanding as to why Mexico isn't discouraging this kind of exodus from their own country. Why isn't Mexico not saying, instead of working on this kind of reform legislation like this, why isn't Mexico saying, let's improve our way of life for our people so that people will be less apt to want to leave Mexico?
HERNANDEZ: Well, I think that, first of all, we have to remember Mexico is our friend. Mexico is our second most important partner. I mean, Mexico buys more goods from the United States than China and several other countries put together.
So Mexico, yes, there is a lot Mexico should do. Mexico should create jobs and Mexico has a new president, Felipe Calderon, who calls himself the job president. And he's working very hard on creating jobs in Mexico. I think we need to work together. We benefit a lot from having a wealthy Mexico. We benefit a lot, and let's go ahead and say it, by receiving these immigrant workers. We don't need less, we need more. We need about 400 to 500,000 every year.
WHITFIELD: And that is exactly what is at the center of this debate. Some who say, don't need more. Some who say, don't need more. Others who say, want less and vice versa. Juan Hernandez, thanks so much for your time. And that book is "The New American Pioneers."
Well, for all of the latest developments on the immigration debate and other pressing issues of the day, tune into LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK, coming your way this just 20 minutes from now.
And this just in to CNN, new video of that explosion in Beirut that we told you about earlier. Authorities there say a bomb went off near a mall in a Christian neighborhood in East Beirut just a short time ago. Several people were hurt in that blast. This bombing comes as Lebanese security forces battle Islamic militants linked to al Qaeda near the northern city of Tripoli.
And Michael Moore is a lightning rod for strong words. Next, we'll take you to Cannes to see what they're saying about his newest film "Sicko."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Moviemaker Michael Moore is feeling the love at the Cannes festival. "Sicko," well, it's a huge hit there but Moore is not such a hit with the U.S. authorities. The filmmaker is being investigated now for making a trip to Cuba, as part of his documentary. A movie that blasts the U.S. health care system. Reporting from Cannes, France, Nicholas Glass.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICHOLAS GLASS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Michael Moore, still skinny, he says for a Midwesterner. Heroic self-publicist that he is, who absolutely knows the value of coming here and of controversy. Moore is under investigation for flouting American travel restrictions. And a stunt he took rescue workers from Ground Zero over to Cuba for free medical treatment.
MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: I'm the one who is personally being investigated and I'm the one who is personally liable for potential fines or jail. The point was not to go to Cuba but was to go to America. Was to go to America soil. To Guantanamo Bay and to take the 9/11 rescue workers there to receive the same health care that they're giving the al Qaeda detainees.
GLASS (on camera): Being a Michael Moore film, it's entertaining. Both moving and funny. But it's also manipulative and partial with the facts. He gives a very rosy picture, for example, with the National Health Service in Britain.
MOORE (voice-over): This is Rick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was ripping a piece of wood and I grabbed it right here and it hit a knot.
MOORE: He sawed-off of the tops of two of his fingers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just zipped and it was that quick.
MOORE: His first thought.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have insurance. How much this is going to cost.
MOORE: The hospital gave him a choice. Reattach the middle finger for $60,000. Or do the ring finger for $12,000.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's an awful feeling to just try to put a value on your body.
MOORE: Being a hopeless romantic, Rick chose the ring finger for the bargain price of 12 grand.
GLASS (voice-over): Moore characterizes the medical insurance industry as obscenely greedy. Motives maximum profit. Minimum care.
MOORE (on camera): The people that helped him participate in the attack of 9/11 are receiving better health care from us than those who were went down to rescue those who suffered and died on 9/11. You're telling me that? I think that's what the American people -- that's how they're going to respond.
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WHITFIELD: Controversial but in part why people are going to flood the movie theaters to see his movie. That's why a lot of folks like to see him.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And a lot of folks hate his guts. It's true.
WHITFIELD: I know. I am just reading your body language and your facial expression, oh really!
SANCHEZ: News to you?
WHITFIELD: Tell me all about it. How you doing?
SANCHEZ: I'm doing fine. We wanted to know what some of the illegal immigrants think of this new plan. So I went out. Because you know I speak a little Spanglish.
WHITFIELD: A little.
SANCHEZ: A little but, you know? So I went out and I talked to them. And I asked them, they're all over the place and all over America. We knew where they were. We went out, we interviewed them all and I will tell you what they had to say. Bringing it to you at 7:00.
WHITFIELD: So we don't get a taste right now of a little bit?
SANCHEZ: Yeah. You're not going to be surprised to hear that I could not find anybody who said, no, I am not going to sign up or I am too afraid to give my fingerprints of fear of what they may into to me later. So that's pretty much the gist of it. Since you dragged it out of me.
OK. Did you watch the first Democratic debate.
WHITFIELD: Yeah.
SANCHEZ: You remember Mike Gravel? He's like the -- someone would say the odd-ball. The maverick. The spit fire.
WHITFIELD: Mix it up a little bit. SANCHEZ: The guy who's not affair frayed to say what everybody else was afraid to say. He's going to be here tonight. Every Sunday night, we get a different spotlight. Someone who's running for president and he's our guy tonight.
WHITFIELD: We like that. We'll be watching 7:00 and 10:00.
SANCHEZ: 7:00 and 10:00.
WHITFIELD: Rick Sanchez.
SANCHEZ: Thanks.
WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks very much.
SANCHEZ: Is there anything else I need to tell you?
WHITFIELD: Well, you could after a break. Because we're out of time right now on the air.
SANCHEZ: Promise to.
WHITFIELD: All right. We'll chat later.
All right. Well, the decision to donate an organ can be a very emotional, very serious. We'll find out how some are trying to streamline the process for families.
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WHITFIELD: Organ donations give people who die the chance to give the gift of life to people in need. It's given thousands of people around the world a chance to live longer, productive lives. In the U.S., organ donations are regulated by state laws which may soon undergo a few changes. More now from CNN's Kathleen Koch.
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PATTY KLOPFER, WIFE, STROKE VICTIM: That was our wedding day.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look at that. How old were you?
KLOPFER: Nineteen.
KOCH: And he was?
KLOPFER: Twenty.
KOCH: Twenty.
(voice-over): They fell in love when they first met. And got married after high school. So Patty Crawford was devastated when her husband John, 49, died suddenly from a stroke. Initially, she opposed his wishes to donate his organs.
KLOPFER: I couldn't deal with it. It was just too much to deal with at that time.
KOCH (on camera): You were in shock?
KLOPFER: Yeah, total.
KOCH (voice-over): Eventually patty agreed. Such quandaries happen frequently.
CONNIE RING, UNIFORM STATE LAWS ADVOCATE: Under current situation, there's no guidance. And doctors and family really are not in a position to know what they can do and who is in control.
KOCH: So states nationwide are considering a new law to eliminate conflicts and create uniformity. Among other things, it would clear up what happens if a person is an organ donor but also has a living will that stipulates no respirator. A respirator or other medical intervention is often necessary for a short time to keep organs viable.
DR. JANIS ORLOWSKI, WASHINGTON HOSPITAL CENTER: If someone is alive, they have the right to say no. This comes above the other. My living will comes above organ donation. That's the way it is.
KOCH (on camera): If the patient can't express their wishes, then under the law, a surrogate or family member predesignated to make medical decisions will choose. The law also makes it clear that no one, not even family, can override a patient's decision to be an organ donor.
(voice-over): Medical ethicists are concerned that dying patients never be treated differently in their final hours simply because they are organ donors.
ARTHUR CAPLAN, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: You don't want to see the dying process influenced by the desire to get organs. That's a bright line that we don't want to be crossing.
KOCH: Patty has now decided to be an organ donor herself. She wears her husband's number seven as do team members at practices for the semi pro baseball team he founded with their sons.
KLOPFER: He was very giving.
KOCH: Do you think that's why he decided to be an organ donor?
KLOPFER: Yeah, I think so. I think so.
KOCH: Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.
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WHITFIELD: No military man or woman returns from war unchanged. They need physical care, emotional care and in some cases, they need both. A non-profit group operating in one the most beautiful places on earth claims to offer benefits for body and soul. Robert Goulston from our Nashville affiliate WTVT went to see for himself.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's very therapeutic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All is water as far as you can see.
ROBERT GOULSTON, WTVF CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cayman Broc (ph), 14 square miles in the western Caribbean. Where the beauty is only more impressive beneath the surface.
Here soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division are on a mission, to battle what changed them. Each with their story how it happened.
LORI HILL, INJURED SOLDIER: There was a very complex attack ...
GOULSTON: Lori was flying an army helicopter in the skies over Iraq.
HILL: A barrage of machine gun fire, started shooting at the helicopter.
GOULSTON: Bryan Price was manning a gun on a Humvee.
BRYAN PRICE, INJURED SOLDIER: Boom. That's all I heard.
HILL: There was obviously a lot of blood.
PRICE: I realized my legs wouldn't move.
HILL: I was pretty sure that I'd been shot.
GOULSTON: They are back on foreign soil.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: USA!
GOULSTON: For something called Underwater Warriors.
PRICE: It helps you get a sense of confidence.
GOULSTON: A program that helps rehabilitate soldiers, not physically, emotionally.
HILL: We like to take care of ourselves and not be able to do that a little while takes a lot out of to have to ask people to help you do everything.
GOULSTON: In Bryan's case, 25 doctors said he would never walk again.
PRICE: They couldn't tell how many nerves had actually been cut when the shrapnel went in.
GOULSTON: But Bryan isn't exactly the type to take news like that sitting down.
PRICE: I got back pain and nerve pain and shrapnel pain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Need help getting on?
PRICE: No.
GOULSTON: The shrapnel Ripped through Bryan's spinal cord leaving scar tissue that blocks his upper body from communicate with his lower body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look goods down there, buddy, you're going to like this.
GOULSTON: But under the water surface, Bryan, for just a while, is able to leave those problems behind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready? One, two, three, go!
PRICE: It's like I had no disability. All your restrictions had you on land are gone.
GOULSTON: The Underwater Warriors dive all week.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you guys all ready to go?
GOULSTON: Mastering new skills.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're getting about 23 to 24 knot winds right now.
GOULSTON: Learning to overcome their disabilities.
PRICE: My favorite part was definitely the ship wreck. The Russian destroyer. We got to swim down to it and swim all through the inside of it and stuff.
GOULSTON: Then becomes as clear as the water.
PRICE: The camaraderie is awesome.
GOULSTON: It's not just their passion to heal that runs deep.
HILL: We all have the same sick, twisted sense of humor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just want to drink the ocean, right?
PRICE: I've never been to a group of people that became so close so fast.
HILL: To get to come here and experience all this with all these other great soldiers who have overcome so much in their lives -- it's just phenomenal.
GOULSTON: Their new friendships ...
PRICE: I couldn't have so much fun without these people here with me.
GOULSTON: Are becoming the clearest path to a full recovery. HILL: Shut up, you guys!
GOULSTON: On special assignment with photojournalist Jared Rogers.
HILL: Sorry, I'm having an unwarrior-like moment there.
GOULSTON: Robert Goulston, News Channel 5.
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WHITFIELD: And I'm Fredricka Whitfield. LOU DOBBS THIS WEEK, straight ahead.
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