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Insurgents Attack, Damage Shiite Holy Site in Samarra; Lebanon Attack; Prosecutor Firings Fallout

Aired June 13, 2007 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez, here at the CNN Center in Atlanta.
Don Lemon is still on assignment.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kyra Phillips.

Another dark day for the Golden Mosque. Are Iraqis condemned to repeat the sectarian carnage of the past 16 months?

SANCHEZ: You are about to see some exclusive live pictures from the very latest attack that has taken place there. It's got the whole country and a lot of military officials on edge. An attack that the U.S. military believes was an inside job.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

PHILLIPS: Want to get quickly though to Chad Myers, monitoring the severe weather across the country.

(WEATHER REPORT)

SANCHEZ: This is one of the big stories we've been following for you today, really one of the most holy sites. It's one of the most sensitive in Iraq's brutal internal conflict. This is what is left now of the Al-Askariya mosque in Samarra. It was targeted before, a year ago, when a horrific new chapter of this war really began.

Let's get right to Samarra. CNN's Karl Penhaul is joining us now by satellite to bring us the very latest on what he knows of this situation. And not just what happened, but what's developed since because of it.

Karl, over the you.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, we are at a military base just on the outskirts of Samarra. If you head over this way about a half a mile, that's the site of the Golden Mosque, where the bombing occurred this morning.

In fact, there were a number of soldiers who were on lookout this morning, and they actually saw those minarets go down. They heard the explosion and they saw the minarets just collapse.

Now, we've been talking in the course of the afternoon to General Benjamin Mixon. He's the divisional commander in charge of this region of Iraq. And what he says is, that there's clear evidence that suggests that this was an inside job.

Iraqi security forces normally guard the perimeter of that mosque, and then inside there is a Shia mosque security detail. And what General Mixon has told us, is that he believes that members of the security detail, either posing as insurgents or with comrades who were outside but were al Qaeda insurgents, were then permitted to go in to place those explosive charges and simply detonated them.

What General Mixon has also told us is that there were no reports of any gunfight. There were no reports that any insurgents breached the security. This is very much an inside job, he says. Accomplices certainly on the inside.

The only highlight really is that there were no casualties in this bombing. And also, General Mixon points to the fact that Iraqi leaders have swiftly reacted to send additional Iraqi soldiers to this city, and also additional Iraqi police in the hope of keeping the peace here -- Rick.

SANCHEZ: So, if the people who did this inside job are proven to be Iraqis, or part of the Iraqi security force, does that heighten the possibility that the U.S. will somehow be blamed for this?

PENHAUL: Well, we have seen certain -- certain accusations by some of the Shia leaders in Baghdad calling this some kind of American-Israeli plot. But we really haven't seen that play out much more on the ground.

Both the Iraqis and the Americans have reacted swiftly, and they have arrested 15 members of that security detail for questioning on how this happened. The U.S. Army will also be sending in the coming hours explosive experts to find out what kind of explosives were used, to hunt for clues as to exactly who was behind this.

And so certainly, everybody here making every effort to try and keep a lid on this, although as we know, around Baghdad and south of Baghdad there have been reprisal attacks against a number of Sunni mosques so far -- Rick.

SANCHEZ: Yes. That's my next question. Will this serve to catalyze or to trump up more violence between the Shias and the Sunnis? And have you seen any of that at this point?

PENHAUL: Certainly, military commanders here in Samarra think not. In fact, Samarra is 96 percent Sunni and only about 2 percent Shia. And so for that reason, they think that there won't be any chance of sectarian clashes here in Samarra.

But certainly I should say on the ground we have seen some reprisal attacks. A mosque in Baghdad, southwest Baghdad, was burned to the ground, and two mosques south of Baghdad were bombed by suspected Shia militiamen.

And also in Baghdad at 6:00 p.m. local time, an indefinite curfew was put into place. Now, that will be lifted after authorities there think that conditions have calmed enough to allow people to go back on the streets. But certainly everybody is on tenterhooks now. Everybody is bracing themselves, hoping that this doesn't re-ignite or further ignite Sunni-Shia sectarian clashes.

Everybody very much on the lookout for that -- Rick.

SANCHEZ: We've got the picture. Karl Penhaul, thanks so much for bringing us up to date. Watch yourself there. We thank you.

Kyra, over to you.

PHILLIPS: More on that Montana fugitive that escaped the state prison, now in a courtroom. We're talking about Kelly Frank.

Why was he in jail? Because he is the man that was accused of plotting to capture David Letterman's son. The talk show host has a ranch in western Montana.

He and another man, William Willcutt, about 20 years his younger, had escaped the state prison when authorities got tipped off to this area right here. Pictures coming to us from our affiliate KRTV. Believe they spotted the two men, specifically Kelly Frank bathing at a campground.

William Willcutt still on the loose. Kelly Frank now in a courtroom.

We're following this case.

Another prominent Lebanese critic of Syria is dead today, killed with several others in an explosion in Beirut.

CNN Beirut Bureau Chief Brent Sadler is standing by with the significance of all this -- Brent.

BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF: Kyra, a massive bomb blast took the life of a very important legislator and MP in the Lebanese parliament who's a strong supporter of the ruling anti-Syrian coalition in the parliament. His name is Walid Eido. He was killed, along with his son, two bodyguards, and at least five others.

What this means is that the parliamentary majority of Saad Hariri, the son and political heir of his father, Rafik Hariri, who himself was assassinated two years ago, has lost yet another critically important member of its parliamentary majority. The fingers of accusations are already being pointed towards Syria, that was implicated by a U.N. investigation into the Hariri probe two years ago.

Kyra, this is the third Lebanese MP to be killed from the anti- Syrian bloc in the past two years or so, and the fifth Lebanese MP, to include Hariri, to be assassinated over the past two-plus years. Already, Saad Hariri has said -- and I quote here -- that "The same fingers and the same apparatus, the same evil fingers and evil apparatus" that killed his father are also involved in this latest assassination -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: We'll continue to follow up.

Brent Sadler live from Beirut.

SANCHEZ: A lot of heat around the White House today. Two subpoenas for two former White House aides. They are the first in the congressional probe into those controversial firings of eight federal prosecutors. And they're prompting the White House to claim that lawmakers are more interested in drama than in facts.

CNN's Kathleen Koch is on the story. She's joining us now from the White House.

There's one name that suddenly has surfaced here, and I'll be honest with you, I've never heard of her before. If you could maybe bring us up to date on who this person is and why she's significant, why she's being subpoenaed. The name is Sara Taylor, Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sara Taylor, Rick, she was the deputy basically for Karl Rove. She was his right-hand staffer, and so she is one of the top people right now that lawmakers believe they really need to hear from to get to the bottom of whether or not these firings of those eight U.S. attorneys were politically based.

Also, they have sent out subpoenas to -- a subpoena to Harriet Miers, former White House counsel. But the White House clearly is not pleased that lawmakers have decided really to push this to a confrontation.

At today's press briefing this afternoon, Tony Snow, the spokesman, said that they would be reviewing the subpoenas and responding appropriately, but he is accusing lawmakers of playing politics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We have made available to all committees anybody who wants to talk, and we've laid out conditions. It seems that right now there is more interest on the media circus. Witness the fact that it was arriving over your BlackBerrys this morning before we had been informed. So, at this juncture, you know, it's clear that they're trying to create some media drama, and I'll leave it at that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Now, committee chairmen, for their part, say that they took this step with reluctance. They do point out that their research shows that in recent history, presidential advisers have testified before Congress some 74 times. So, they simply -- and this is members of both parties, Democrat and Republican -- cannot accept the conditions that were laid out by White House counselor Fred Fielding -- White House counsel Fred Fielding in March. And that was that those who were to testify if there were any White House advisers who were requested by Congress, that they would testify only in private, that there would be no transcript of the testimony, and that they would not take an oath. And so, Rick, Congress simply couldn't accept it, so thus we have these subpoenas.

SANCHEZ: Yes. I guess essentially what Congress was saying is talking to them with no record that we talked to them is like not talking to them at all, right?

KOCH: Quite so, quite so. And not taking an oath. When you make someone swear that they're going to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, Congress does believe that that makes a difference.

SANCHEZ: And obviously, you know, we had been talking about this before, but the possibility that Karl Rove might at some point down the line be asked to testify himself. The fact that they would have one of his politicos subpoenaed goes a long way in that direction, one would think, Kathleen?

KOCH: Certainly, Rick. Our Dana Bash, Capitol Hill correspondent, got this information from two Democratic congressional sources. And what they explained is they've decided not to subpoena Karl Rove right now, because what they're doing at this point is they're building an investigation, and they're starting from the bottom and moving up, gathering information right now from lower-level witnesses.

And then they say they'll move on to more important senior witnesses. But at the same time, they acknowledged to Dana they realize this could all end up in court, all end up with a constitutional confrontation, and they may never get any testimony from any of these higher-level witnesses.

SANCHEZ: It seems to be heading in that direction.

Kathleen Koch, thanks so much for the update.

KOCH: You bet, Rick.

PHILLIPS: Rick, we've got some sad news to report. The wife of Billy Graham, Ruth Graham -- you know, Billy Graham is the -- the Reverend Billy Graham, who we well know, the evangelical reverend that has for centuries influenced presidents, and, of course, Americans and those across the globe, his wife, Ruth Graham, many members of his family and friends will talk about how she is truly the strength and the power behind the reverend. She's been very ill lately. And we're just getting word from their family friends that she has gone into a coma.

And the quote here is that, "Ruth is close to going to heaven."

We had a chance, actually, Rick, to do a special one hour on Billy Graham because his final crusade was last year. And I had the chance to interview him and also family members.

Ruth was too ill. She's 87 years old, and she has been bedridden for a while. But I think one of the neatest things that I learned about her, not only her strength, coming from a family of missionaries...

SANCHEZ: Right.

PHILLIPS: ... and being this absolutely support to the Reverend Graham, but every night they would hold hands. This was what all the family members told me, and even Billy Graham would talk about this, and watch "An Affair to Remember," and read the bible, and just sit there and talk and just have a moment together. Every single night.

I mean, Reverend Graham...

SANCHEZ: It's a fairytale of a relationship.

PHILLIPS: Very much so. I mean, their marriage, their relationship, how she was there for the kids -- and the kids would always tell these funny stories about how she was the disciplinarian and Reverend Graham was -- you never could do any wrong because Ruth was always the one watching over the kids and telling them what they could and couldn't do.

But just an amazing, amazing woman. And they've known that this time has probably been coming. And so just today we're just now finding out she's gone into a coma.

SANCHEZ: Yes.

PHILLIPS: And you heard the comment there about being close to heaven.

SANCHEZ: A tough situation for the family.

Our thoughts and prayers are with them.

Baby steps toward ending the genocide in Darfur. Sudan agrees to accept U.N. peacekeepers, but there are conditions.

PHILLIPS: And what's killing the whale sharks at the Georgia Aquarium? We're going to have more on that attraction and the fact that the second whale shark has died since January.

SANCHEZ: Also, New Hampshire Republicans are taking a shine to Mitt Romney. How could you not with a flag that big behind him?

Candy Crowley has details coming up.

You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: 2:17 Eastern Time. Here are three of the stories we're working on for you right now in the CNN NEWSROOM.

President Bush has picked former Republican Party leader Ed Gillespie to be the new White House counselor replacing Dan Bartlett.

And after days of Palestinian fighting, Hamas is claiming control of northern Gaza. It's warning everybody there to give up their guns.

And the mother of a 6-year-old Georgia boy and her companion are under arrest after her son was found tied up inside a car in 80-degree heat.

SANCHEZ: You know, it's difficult to make a list of world trouble spots these days without including the Sudan. The U.N. and U.S. have branded mass killings in the country's Darfur region genocide, yet the Sudanese government is also seen as a valuable ally in the global war on terror, if you can believe that.

CNN's Brian Todd puts this one together for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sudan: widely condemned for the genocide in its Darfur region.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The people of Darfur are crying out for help and they deserve it.

TODD: But while President Bush has imposed new sanctions on Sudan, former U.S. intelligence officials say America counts on Sudan's accomplished but notorious spy agency. The former head of the CIA's Counterterrorism Center says Sudan has been a useful ally in helping track international Jihadists traveling to Iraq. Other former intelligence officials say Sudan has long been a key transit point for those terrorists and is good at gathering intelligence in the region.

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The Sudanese bring to the party a capacity to work easily in that environment because they blend in. And in that sense, they bring attributes that the United States doesn't have.

TODD: Contacted by CNN, current U.S. intelligence officials won't comment on their relationship with other countries. Sudan's diplomat in Washington won't comment on a "Los Angeles Times" report that Sudan sends its own spies into that jihadist pipeline into Iraq to gather information. But he does say this about Sudan's intelligence sharing with the United States and Mr. Bush's sanctions.

JOHN UKEC, SUDANESE CHIEF OF MISSION: When the United States slaps us with things like that, this is not conducive. It doesn't help us and it emboldens those who say that, you know, the United States is there to destroy Sudan, there is no reason why we should be, you know, cooperating with them.

TODD: One former U.S. official says that kind of rhetoric influences America's policies on Darfur.

JOHN PRENDERGAST, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: The counterterrorism cooperation really has thrown in a wrench in it, because people are afraid we'll upset the apple cart if we push harder.

TODD (on camera): A spokeswoman for the National Security Council wouldn't comment on that. On the implied threat from the Sudanese diplomat that intelligence cooperation may not continue if the U.S. presses sanctions, NSC officials say they expect the Sudanese to continue their efforts against terrorism because, "It's in their interests, not just ours."

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Well, interestingly enough, U.N. peacekeepers could be in Darfur in months. So say Sudanese diplomats now that Sudanese leaders have finally approved such a force -- with conditions, though.

Our senior U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth, is joining us now with more on this mission.

What do we know, Richard?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, remember President Reagan's famous line, "Trust but verify," referring to arms control agreements with the then Soviet Union? Well, that's what we're still dealing with concerning the government of Sudan.

The president there has made many agreements with the United Nations regarding the arrival of United Nations peacekeeping forces, but has not lived up to those agreements. So, there are rosy comments now once again, but activists and human rights groups and others are skeptical at the moment. They'd like to, in effect -- they'll believe it when they see it.

Now, at the U.N., they're at the moment -- regarding the announcement by Sudan, in effect, that they're willing to accept now these thousands of international peacekeepers, at the U.N. they're cautiously optimistic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was, in our view, a significant step forward. It's not the end of the road, but it is very important to reach that agreement, which now allows us to prepare for the mission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: The U.N.'s peacekeeping director says it's a step to build on. The attitude from Sudan was constructive in talks this week once again on the operational arrangement.

Still, Sudan was under pressure from the threat of Security Council sanctions, and there's a planned visit, Rick, this week by the Security Council to Khartoum. So, perhaps the government there decided to proclaim it was welcoming this announcement and agreement once again, and then we'll see what happens when the council gets out of town -- Rick.

SANCHEZ: We thank you for following it for us.

Richard Roth there in New York.

Thank you, Richard.

PHILLIPS: The New Hampshire debates put a new name at the top of the Republican polls in that state. We're going to get Candy Crowley's take.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, this is typically the strongest time of the year for the housing market, but a new report contradicts that and suggests more problems lie ahead.

Susan Liscovicz at the New York Stock Exchange to break it all down for us.

(BUSINESS REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well if you've been watching CNN, you've probably gotten word within the past fifteen minutes or so, that Ruth Graham, the wife of evangelist Billy Graham, right now is being treated at home, per her wishes, as she has slipped into a coma. She is surrounded by her husband, the Reverend Graham and their children, four children are there. The fifth one is on the way from the west coast. Sunday was her 87th birthday. She's been bedridden for a number of years, but that definitely hasn't stopped the influence she has had on that family, those children, also Reverend Graham.

On the phone with us, Larry Ross. Larry has been with the family for years dealing a lot with interviews specifically with the media. We've worked together. Larry Ross, I appreciate you being on the phone with us. Hi, there. No doubt a very tough time right now for the family.

LARRY ROSS, GRAHAM MEDIA LIAISON: It is. As you just mentioned, for several months, Ruth Graham has been in frail condition and confined to bed. Two weeks ago she was treated for pneumonia, and initially started to improve, but because of her weakened condition, her health began to decline rapidly and this morning she slipped into a coma. She is being treated at home, according to her wishes, and is resting comfortably surrounded by her husband, Billy Graham, and four of their children with the fifth, their son from the west coast, on the way, arriving this evening.

PHILLIPS: And I was just reading the comment. Someone from the family said Ruth is close to going to heaven. So, Larry, do you believe this is the time?

ROSS: Well, talking with her doctor this morning, a lot of variables. It's hard for them to say, but considering her weakened condition and her rapid decline over the last day or two, it appears she's entering the final stages of life.

PHILLIPS: Well, Larry, just to put things in perspective for our viewers, obviously millions and millions of people have been affected by the Reverend Billy Graham and also Ruth, the woman behind the man, the woman behind the reverend.

When you and I had worked together closely on the -- our documentary we did on the Reverend Graham and the family, you gave me a great opportunity and insight to learn more about Ruth Graham. She was too ill to do an interview, but still a tremendous strength in that family and in the reverend's life. She really was the one that raised those children and supported him through everything, the tough times and the brilliant times.

ROSS: That's right. Was a real student of the bible. Mrs. Graham -- actually, Mr. Graham has said that she was the greatest Christian that he ever knew or she is the greatest Christian he ever knew. And depended on her strength and also her knowledge of the Bible throughout his ministry.

Actually, Ruth Graham turned 87 on Sunday and was visited by many family members over the weekend. She was alert. Has just had this rapid decline since her birthday but the family was glad for the time to celebrate that with her over the weekend.

PHILLIPS: And Larry, just finally, she came from a family of medical missionaries. She was living in China at a very volatile time. She wanted to become a missionary but her parents wanted her to go to school and that is where she met the Reverend Graham, right?

ROSS: That's right. The met on the campus of Wheaton College, 65 years ago, and Mr. Graham said recently he loves her now more than the day he met her when they were married and it's been a great partnership. And they are now encouraged that all of their five children are going on in ministry.

PHILLIPS: And I know that they have spent many a nights recently together, the Reverend Graham and his wife, watching an "Affair to Remember," holding hands and talking about their amazing love affair.

Larry we appreciate you calling in. Hopefully you will keep us updated and she will be in our thoughts and prayers.

ROSS: Thank you and that covers the prayers of all of your listeners.

PHILLIPS: Larry, thank you so much.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Well, the only Republican presidential candidate airing TV ads right now in New Hampshire, happens to lead the Republican field in a new poll of granite state voters. Coincidence? He's Mitt Romney and CNN's Senior Political Correspondent, Candy Crowley, looks at his new strength in New Hampshire.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MITT ROMNEY, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How are you doing this morning, ma'am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fine, thank you.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Look who's moving on up.

ROMNEY: I would appreciate your help.

CROWLEY: Mitt Romney, former governor, former business tycoon, former saver of the Olympics, is on top in the latest CNN/WMUR poll conducted by the University of New Hampshire. Twenty-eight percent of Republican primary voters picked Romney, up 11 points from April. Both Rudy Giuliani and John McCain dropped nine points, down to 20. The not yet running, Fred Thompson jumped into double digits. It is Romney's first time at the top of the polls. How did he do that? For starters, he did this.

ROMNEY: I believe in the people of America, free American people are the source of this land's great strength.

CROWLEY: Since the end of February, Romney, who has a lot of money and not much national name recognition, has poured more than $700,000 worth of ads into New Hampshire.

ROMNEY: Good, good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is your sweetie?

CROWLEY: And he has backed up his air time with an intense ground game. The head of the state's Republican party says Romney earned his numbers with politics, New Hampshire style.

FERGUS CULLEN, NEW HAMPSHIRE GOP CHAIRMAN: Governor Romney has been running the most traditional campaign here in New Hampshire with the most town hall meeting style events, talking to likely Republican primary voters. You reap what you sow, and I think he's seen the benefits of two years of hard work here.

ROMNEY: I'm honored to be here with some New Hampshirites even though I'm from Massachusetts.

CROWLEY: The poll shows Romney draws most of his support from New Hampshire Republicans who live closest to Massachusetts and from conservatives, the base of the party, who support him two to one over anyone else. But despite all that, there are plenty of numbers indicating what goes up can come down.

KEATING HOLLAND, CNN POLLING DIRECTOR: Only about six percent of Republican primary voters tell us that they definitely made their minds up. Most of them say they really don't have any clear idea of who they're going to support.

CROWLEY: And while they found Mitt Romney the most likable of the candidates, Republican primary voters think Rudy Giuliani has the best chance of beating the Democratic nominee, and when asked which candidate is the most believable, they picked John McCain. MITT ROMNEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm Mitt Romney, I'm running for president.

CROWLEY: This race is not just very early, it is very unsettled. Nobody should get comfortable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, Candy Crowley joins us now live. Candy, let's talk about the guy who isn't there in New Hampshire yet still pulling double digits in the polls. Fred Thompson, actor turned senator turned actor, joked around with Leno on last night. Should we listen to this first?

CROWLEY: Yes.

PHILLIPS: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRED THOMPSON, (R) FORMER U.S. SENATOR: I put term limits on myself, for one thing. I never planned on spending a career in Washington. You know, I often say after eight years in Washington, I long for the realism and sincerity of Hollywood.

JAY LENO, HOST OF "THE TONIGHT SHOW": Really?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: It is a good line. But, can he -- he can deliver a good line, but can he be a serious contender in the White House?

CROWLEY: Well, he plans to be. He was also asked in that Leno interview, do you want to be president? And he said there are some things that I can do as president, so yes. I mean, put him in the pool. He hasn't registered his papers yet at the FEC. I suspect that has something to do with the fact that they don't want to have to report their fund-raising numbers at the end of this month, we're coming up on the end of the second quarter. So, we expect to see him officially put the papers in sometime in early July.

PHILLIPS: What's interesting when you look at actors turned politicians, you know, it started with "The Love Boat," Fred Grandee (ph), he was a congressman, and then -- oh, that's right -- Ronald Reagan, of course, we can't forget that, then you've got Arnold Schwarzenegger, and now, you know. It's interesting to see -- I mean, can you even -- you know, they usually do pretty well.

I mean, what is it about it? Is it the personality, is it the background? Is it they know how to act?

SANCHEZ: Don't forget Sonny Bono.

PHILLIPS: That's right, we can't forget Sonny Bono. He could sing.

CROWLEY: You know, there's some similarities between acting and campaigning, let's put it that way.

PHILLIPS: There we go, I guess that's what I was trying to ask you in a delicate way.

CROWLEY: I think you can say that's so. Fred Thompson, as you know, was actually a lawyer before he became an actor, before he became a senator, before he became an actor again. But nonetheless, he has walked both sides of this and I think the reason that you see them do well is not just because they're actors but because they do have some substance to them. Certainly, Ronald Reagan had been governor of California before he came in. I don't think acting is in and of itself enough of a credential, but it helps.

PHILLIPS: Well, you also had something in your piece that was interesting, McCain ranked as the most believable of the Republican candidates. Now, let's take a look at these numbers. McCain comes in third on likability when you take a look at this poll.

CROWLEY: Yes, this is not good. You know, part of the problem here is that voters really have to like their president. He tends to show up in their living rooms a lot. Part of this I suspect is that McCain is the one that feeds voters broccoli most of the time. He's -- especially when you're talking about conservative voters who don't like McCain-Feingold, when you're talking about the war, that is also a position that has made him not all that popular. But he has stuck with it.

Now, the McCain people see this as a strength, see the fact that he speaks his mind as a strength, his believability. So, they want to play off that and say you may not agree with this guy, but he's going to tell you where he sits on things. So, they're hoping that they can turn this around, not just that he's believable but that he's electable and that he's likable.

PHILLIPS: Candy Crowley, good to see you.

CROWLEY: Good to see you.

SANCHEZ: We've got some really cool pictures to share with you. Can we get those up? See this, isn't that neat? That's some tape we got in just a little while ago. It's another day of tinkering ahead for the shuttle astronauts. This is it coming in from outer space, folks. And you know who can tell us exactly what each one of these images represents? How about Miles O'Brien? What do you think? And that's who we're going to be talking to on the backside of this commercial, stay with us.

SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Also, what's killing the whale sharks at the world's largest aquarium? I'm Susan Roesgen, I'll have the story coming up in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back.

What is killing the whale sharks? That's a question being asked again at the Georgia Aquarium, hours after a second whale shark died. Norton (ph) was one of the original four whale sharks at the relatively new aquarium, but they can't seem to keep these big guys alive.

CNN's Susan Roesgen is there, she's following the story for us. Is there an explanation? I mean, are they keying in on any one hint that might give them a clue as to what's going on?

ROESGEN: You know, not yet, Rick. They have a theory, but they won't know possibly for several months what has killed this second of the original two whale sharks here at this, the world's largest aquarium. This whale shark died this morning, and they believe that the possible link between the death of this shark and one just five months ago was a chemical that they put in the tank here behind me to kill parasites.

With me is Ray Davis, he's the senior vice president here at the Georgia Aquarium. Ray, what about this chemical? Do you think that chemical that I understand is used even in home aquariums to kill parasites, could be what has killed these first two?

RAY DAVIS, SR. V.P., GEORGIA AQUARIUM: Well, one thing to understand is that we have what is understood as a process that it appeared that there was a loss of appetite during the time that we used this chemical. As a precautionary measure, we discontinued use of it. Ralph's passing was due to paratinnitus (ph), the behavior in the ...

ROESGEN: That was the first whale shark five months ago.

DAVIS: Correct, and then Norton -- his behavior was different. He had started to show some interest in food and feeding behaviors. Norton was responding differently than Ralph did. Ralph had an acute onset that led to his death and even if that, we're still studying to see what links there may be. It's hard to sit there and go absolutely this is it.

ROESGEN: Ralph and Norton of course, named for "The Honeymooners," if folks didn't know that. How about the remaining four whale sharks here? Are they or any of the other fish here at the aquarium in danger from this same chemical?

DAVIS: And they're not, and when we take a look at Toroko (ph), and Ushiang (ph), which are two young males that just arrived from Taiwan, the day after they arrived, they started coming to station to feed from us. Alice and Trixie (ph) have been strong and continue to be strong, feeding from us. We have a station feeding set up and they recognize when it's time to feed and they do that and they've been doing that continuously.

ROESGEN: What do visitors here know about the death? Have you told them?

DAVIS: What we've done is the interpreters, our guest services people, all have the information available, and they can share that information with the guests. ROESGEN: OK. Thank you so much. Ray Davis, the Senior Vice President here at the Georgia Aquarium. The autopsy on the second whale shark death is set to begin any moment. Rick?

SANCHEZ: Susan Roesgen, thanks so much for that update. Kyra, over to you.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, Iraqi forces not ready. A dire assessment by a top U.S. general offering little hope of early homecoming for U.S. soldiers. We are going to take a closer look, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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PHILLIPS: We had an orbital sunrise yesterday. I wonder what we have now? As two space walkers are still on this mission. Other astronauts bone up on their sewing skills. Our space guy, here on earth, Miles O'Brien, that song was just for you, Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: You know, I should not be in space with a needle and thread. I just want to tell you that right now.

PHILLIPS: You shouldn't have a needle and thread, period. I've seen you attempt to sew up things.

O'BRIEN: Yes. Bad idea. Bad idea. But these guy's are good and let's hope they're very careful with their gloves and so forth because you don't want to puncture the glove as you're trying to fix the blanket.

We'll get to the repair in just a moment. Let's go up to space for just a moment and see what's going on right now, get you up to date. The big task of the day, the thing we're going to be focusing on, is essentially a -- the folding of a $367 million map. That's one way of looking at it. Or if you like the quilted shade analogy, you can go with that too. And take a look at what we're looking at right here. These little pieces need to all kind of fold together in the right angle. And what has happen in the past, as they come down for retraction, and they're trying to retract it so they can move this piece. You can't move it safely with it all extended out 110 feet in either direction, that will break it because take a look at this, Kyra. This thing right here. That's pretty fragile.

And if you moved it in the wrong way, you could cause some damage to it. So you want to retract it, folded up the map, whatever you want to say, into these boxes at the bottom. Now, look what happened last time. This is back in December, as they tried to fold up the map. Things got a little bullocksed up here, and there are some wires here and some grommets and all they've got -- the wires got frayed and the grommets got caught --

PHILLIPS: Bullocked up. Isn't that that new word you learned the other day?

O'BRIEN: Yes, I'm going to run with that one for awhile. Run with bullocksed. I feel kind of British when I do it. When I say bullocksed.

PHILLIPS: OK. I was going to say, yes, that's bullocksed.

O'BRIEN: Yes. There's our pal, Bob Kirby, and I just talked to him a little while ago about this. In the midst of doing this, by the way, I think I told you, he astronaut tore one of his gloves, that's not a good thing. That takes me back to this needle and thread thing. But anyway, what they did was they gave him a tool, which basically looks like a spackling knife, but they wrapped it in some insulating tape because it is, after all, an electrical solar array, and piece by piece, one by one, he guided those little panels down the guide wire and if the grommets got caught, he helped it along. It finally worked. This is after trying about six other options including shaking it like a son of a gun. I just asked Beamer how much he can press. He can press over 300 pounds, so I'm sure he gave it some English.

PHILLIPS: Wow.

O'BRIEN: But in any case, now I want to -- so far so good on the retraction. The astronauts will be out there to do just what you saw in case that is need and they've retracted it halfway. So far, so good.

Let's talk about the latest on the blanket. Remember, the blanket up here, upper left portion, right by the tail. Take a look at it one more time. A lot of people are saying, boy, that looks bad. And it's -- you know, big, gaping kind of hole, four by six inches, as you know by now. That's the six inch, that's the four inch there. Here's the thinking right now, there's going to be a space walk either Friday or Sunday where they will go out.

And one of the options is just simply to push the thing down because it tends to remember when you push it. It doesn't spring back. One of the other options is perhaps sewing it, affixing it somehow to the adjoining blanket. That you want to do very carefully. Look at some of these techniques that they're practicing. Of course, this is what they do on the ground. Anybody who saw Apollo 13 knows they practice these things on the ground first. They are trying these techniques out, when they come up with a good solution, they'll radio it up to the crew and we'll watch it unfold. Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Basically, so as they sew up the blanket, basically home ec came in handy for these men in high school.

O'BRIEN: Yes. Hopefully they went to home ec. That's one thing I missed. I wish I had gone. I really do.

PHILLIPS: I know. I always thought it was about cooking and you know, I wish I would have done it, as well.

O'BRIEN: It's a good thing to take kids.

PHILLIPS: That's right. Miles, thanks.

O'BRIEN: Alright. Your welcome. SANCHEZ: Irrefutable evidence of a triple threat, Iran, Afghanistan, and the Taliban. What a top U.S. diplomat has to say ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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