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Interview With Pastor Joel Osteen; Reruns Already Scheduled as Writers Strike Begins

Aired November 05, 2007 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Don't mess with Oprah. Possibly the one person who didn't know that was in a South African courtroom today, while Oprah Winfrey was promising a new beginning at her school for South African girls. Ahead, we will hear from the child psychiatrist Oprah turned to in a crisis.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Millions of American Christians and even, he says, some Jews turn to Joel Osteen every week of their lives. Osteen may America's most influential pastor. He joins us in the NEWSROOM this hour with his seven steps for living at your full potential.

Hello, everybody. Hopefully, you're living at your full potential on this Monday. I'm Betty Nguyen, in for Kyra Phillips today, at the CNN Center here in Atlanta.

LEMON: We certainly hope everyone is living up to their full potential.

NGUYEN: We try.

LEMON: Well, and we're going to ask Joel Osteen how to do it.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

NGUYEN: Well, the eyes of the world, and especially the U.S., are on Pakistan. It's day three of a nationwide state of emergency there. And we're expecting President Bush to talk about it this afternoon.

Meanwhile, his counterpart, President Pervez Musharraf, isn't backing off. Thousands of lawyers, opposition leaders and journalists have been hauled off to jail in what critics call a second coup by Musharraf.

He says he's trying to fend off a growing terror threat in a court system that's increasingly turning against him. Well, U.S. and Pakistani military officials were supposed to meet, but now we're learning that that won't happen.

And what about all that military aid to Pakistan, huge amounts of your money. Let's go straight the Pentagon and CNN's Barbara Starr.

Do we know if they going to meet at any time? Has a date been set. BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Betty, not at this point. There's no indication that they are going to meet again anytime soon.

And, if you think the crisis in Pakistan is something just far away and pictures on the TV screen, think again. U.S. military officials are very concerned about this, concern growing by the hour. Pakistan, of course, is one of the prime U.S. allies in the war against al Qaeda and the Taliban in the war on terror. The U.S. very concerned about what it's seen unfold on the streets.

So, what is the Bush administration doing about it? A review, at least, is under way now of all U.S. military and aid programs to Pakistan to see what to do, whether it's appropriate to continue them.

A little while ago, White House spokesman Dana Perino talked about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA PERINO, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Right now, we have a review under way of all of our programs that we are supporting. We have to keep in mind that it is important that we fight the terrorists there for all people; not just those there in Pakistan, but for our national security interests as well.

And the president has an obligation to protect Americans, to protect American assets, so all of these things are going to have to be taken into consideration as we review the situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: So, what really appears to be happening already now, day three, is this delicate dance, if you will.

How does the Bush administration preserve what it can of the relationship with General Musharraf and the Pakistani military, because they are such vital allies in the war on terror? Where do they step up their criticism and try and get him to change his mind and pull back from the crisis?

Some of the reasons it's so vital to the U.S. interests are, for example, more than 50 percent of the U.S. military's logistics, the supplies basically, that are used in the war in Afghanistan next door, well, they come in through Pakistani airspace or Pakistani military bases and roads.

The U.S. pays Pakistan $80 million a month, reimbursing it for its efforts against the al Qaeda and the Taliban. If that was cut off, of course, the concern is, would the Pakistanis really step up and continue their fight in that remote border region? I think we are going to hear from the president about his way ahead on all of this.

NGUYEN: Yes, we're really looking forward to that, because you mentioned some numbers also, $300 million annually in financing for military purchases, also under review, large-scale weapons programs. So there's a lot to be considered here.

Barbara Starr, thanks for the update.

NGUYEN: Well, the state of emergency getting round-the-clock coverage from Arab networks across the region and beyond. We're watching them all.

And our own international desk is all over this breaking story. We're going to check throughout the afternoon.

LEMON: Nukes, the war on terror, U.S. troops just across the border, no question of a state of emergency in Pakistan, it's sparking a state of anxiety right here in Washington.

And to tell us about that, CNN's Tony Harris.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Do we care what happens in Pakistan? Why should we? It's a relatively small Muslim country half a world away. Their chief export? Textiles. And their one main adversary is India. But there are plenty of reasons why chaos in Pakistan would spell trouble here in the United States. In no order, they are -- the troops. Nearly 30,000 American soldiers and marines are deployed immediately next door in Afghanistan.

Remember, most analysts believe Osama Bin Laden is somewhere in a rocky range of mountains between the two countries. Al Qaeda would certainly flourish in a country distracted by a worsening a state of emergency. Then there is the issue of the nukes. Pakistan has them. India has them. they have already fought three full-on wars, mostly about territory and autonomy, and they still threaten each other all the time.

It's safe to say that the world is safer with steady fingers on nuclear buttons. Next reason? Democracy. Pakistan's current President Pervez Musharraf took power in 1999. Literally took power. He was not elected. He hand picks judges, generals and lawmakers. His last re- election, he got 98 percent of the vote. That raises eyebrows in Washington where the White House would prefer to do business with a government of the people.

Still, Washington regards Pakistan as an indispensable ally in the war against global terrorism. But it's a relationship that will only weaken if order and stability is not soon restored in Pakistan.

Tony Harris, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And later today, a CNN exclusive. Former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto has made her feelings clear about the state of emergency. She talks to our very own Wolf Blitzer at 5:00 Eastern in THE SITUATION ROOM.

NGUYEN: Well, some of your favorite shows are already taking a hit from the writers strike. Reruns are scheduled as early as tonight, just hours after union, TV and movie writers put down their laptops and picked up their picket signs.

Our Jim Acosta is live in New York, where we have has seen people on the streets already today.

Hey there, Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Betty.

The strike is still going on. You can see the picketers behind me. They're not giving up yet. The Writers Guild went on strike after midnight last night.

And a lot of this has to do with that issue of new media. We have been talking about that all day. And people are, L. what's that all about? Basically, in the old days, television shows were paid for by those 30-second spots. In many ways, they still are. But, today, you also have seasons of your favorite shows, those dramas on TV, like "Grey's Anatomy," "Prison Break," those shows are available in those box sets that you can buy in the video store.

The writers want a greater cut of that. And, also, you have shows that can be downloaded off the Internet on to your computer, on to your phone. And, at this point, the writers say they're not getting a cut of that action.

So, what's the ripple effect? Well, it's immediate. And, basically right now all of the major late-night talk shows are going to be in reruns tonight. We're talking about "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart." We're talking about "The Tonight Show With Jay Leno," "Late Show With David Letterman."

We caught up with a writer from "The Daily Show" earlier today. And he said this is not what he had in mind when he came out of his apartment earlier this morning, but this is what is happening. They're in reruns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN OLIVER, WRITER, "DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART": We're supposed to be on TV tonight, and we won't be. And we won't be as long as the strike is on. So, that -- it's affecting us in I guess the most visible way possible. We don't have a show.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And we caught up with other celebrities who have come out here today to show support for their writing brethren. We caught up with Tina Fey, who is now the creator and star of the show "30 Rock," which won an Emmy last year, but she is also a writer by trade.

She started off, as many people know, on "Saturday Night Live." And she is concerned that this strike could go on for some time. The last strike 20 years ago went on for five months. And she's afraid that could happen against. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TINA FEY, WRITER/ACTRESS: What is at stake is the residuals off that Internet stuff. And the big producing companies, they know that's going to be the source of their revenues, because you can tell they're already trying to circle the wagons and lay claim to all of it.

And we're just asking for a reasonable share of that, so that we can keep or pension plan going, keep our health fund going. Otherwise, our union will just disappear in the next 20 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And the strike is not just happening here in New York. It's also happening out in Los Angeles, which is, of course, the heart of the entertainment industry. It's also where "The Tonight Show With Jay Leno" is shown every night.

And last week Jay Leno had a pretty good line for what might happen if this writers strike actually happens. He says, you will know we're in reruns if tonight the guests are Mr. T. and the "Where's the beef?" lady.

(LAUGHTER)

ACOSTA: Betty.

NGUYEN: Yes, that is from way back when.

All right, thank you, Jim. We do appreciate it.

LEMON: All right.

President Bush is going to talk about the situation happening in Pakistan. We told you earlier that he was meeting with the Turkish prime minister. Just moments ago, we got wind of them -- word of them leaving them White House to their meeting there at the White House, of course that meeting happening in the Oval Office.

There's the video, live pictures now -- is this live, guys?

This is tape taken just moments ago of the president and the prime minister, Betty, leaving the White House. Of course, a number of discussions taking place.

We have been talking about the situation in Turkey as well, but also they probably spoke as well about the situation happening in Pakistan. That's on everyone's radar, yes.

(CROSSTALK)

NGUYEN: Yes. And that's we have been watching to hear for from the president, which he will be speaking momentarily, actually.

We have some tape of that coming our way in just a matter of seconds, in fact. But we do want to know what the president has to say, not only about the situation, but the fact that Washington is reviewing its aid package to Pakistan.

We're going to take you now to the president making those comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: we had a very constructive conversation. Turkey is a strategic partner and strong ally of America. I value our friendship at the state level, at the personal level.

We had a long discussion about a common concern, and that concern is the PKK. PKK's a terrorist organization. They're an enemy of Turkey, they're an enemy of Iraq, and they're an enemy of the United States.

We have talked about how we can work together to protect ourselves from the PKK. We talked about the need to have better intelligence sharing. In order to chase down people who murder people you need good intelligence.

And we talked about the need for our military to stay in constant contact.

To this end, the prime minister and I have set up a tripartite arrangement for the -- his number man in the military to stay in touch with our number two man and General Petraeus.

The prime minister strongly urged that the United States work with leaders in Iraq to cut off money flows to the PKK.

The point is, is that I made it very clear to the prime minister we want to work in a close way to -- to deal with this problem.

We discussed a lot of other issues. I do want to thank Prime Minister Erdogan of Turkey for hosting the neighbors conference.

It was a very important conference to help the people of Iraq realize the blessings of liberty.

Thank you, sir.

And, finally, I briefed the prime minister on Secretary Rice's recent phone call with President Musharraf. I asked the secretary to call him, to convey this message: that we expect there to be elections as soon as possible and that the president should remove his military uniform.

Previous to his decision, we would made it clear that these emergency measures were -- you know, would undermine democracy.

Having said that, I did remind the prime minister that President Musharraf has been a strong fighter against extremists and radicals, that he understands the dangers posed by radicals and extremists. After all, they tried to kill him three or four times.

And our hope is that he will restore democracy as quickly as possible.

And I thank you for your leadership and the strong example your country has set.

And I have had a chance to personally congratulate you on your party's rather significant victory. Welcome.

RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, TURKISH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): First of all, I would like to thank the president. I would like to express that I am very pleased to have this opportunity to meet, after our big discussions during the U.N. General Assembly.

The focus of our discussions today was mostly on terrorism, international terrorism and also the PKK and the activities of the PKK terrorist organization in northern Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: You have been listening to President Bush and the Turkish prime minister there talking about a number of issues, first dealing with the PKK, which is a rebel group, the Kurdish Workers Party, also known as PKK.

Right now, the president is saying that he's going to be working with leaders in Iraq to cut off funding to the PKK. And the situation is this. Right now, Turkey threatens to invade unless Baghdad and Washington get together to stop those cross-border raids by the PKK into Turkey. So, that's one issue.

Now, the other issue that we have been following very closely obviously is Pakistan and the state of emergency there. The president says that he does expect elections to be held as soon as possible in Pakistan, despite this state of emergency that's under way. He also says that President Pervez Musharraf should remove his military uniform, which at one point he said he would do, and also that these emergency measures, this state of emergency really undermines democracy.

And so that is the statement from the president today, as he met with the Turkish prime minister -- Don.

LEMON: We're also going to talk about Joel Osteen. He's also called the smiling pastor, or the smiling preacher, which ever one you want to call him. And some say he should be laughing. He's got a lot of followers and a lot of money.

He has got a new book atop the bestsellers list. His sermons are broadcast to millions of people. Pastor Joel Osteen joins us live later on in the CNN NEWSROOM to talk about his new book.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NYUGEN: All right, this just in to CNN. We're getting news of a deadly helicopter crash.

What we know so far is that this helicopter took off from the Overton, Tennessee, area. And the crash site is near the Kentucky line. Here is a map of what we're talking about. We don't have any video on the ground just yet.

But what we do know is, it occurred in a rural wooded area of Fentress County. This is a privately operated helicopter, according to authorities, and it may have been carrying up to three people. State emergency officials have confirmed, though, that there have been fatalities. Again, news is just coming in to CNN. And as soon as we get more information on this fatal helicopter crash, of course we will bring it straight to you -- Don.

LEMON: All right, Betty, thanks very much.

He has a positive message that keeps millions of people hanging on his ever word and buying his books. And he's smiling right here, because he doesn't like the compliments that much.

Joel Osteen, pastor of America's largest church, his services at the converted arena near Houston look more like rock concerts. That's because there's so many people there. While his uplifting message of empowerment has his followers saying, amen, it has others saying he's heavy on style, and short on substance.

But Pastor Osteen joins me now. He has got a new book out, "Become a Better You: Seven Keys to Improving Your Life Every Day." It's number one on this week's "New York Times" bestseller list.

Thank you for joining us. Good to see you again. What has been it been, a year-and-a-half, two years, since the last book?

PASTOR JOEL OSTEEN, AUTHOR, "BECOME A BETTER YOU": Don, it's been a little while. It's great to see you.

LEMON: Yes, it's good to see you.

What do you say when you hear that criticism about, you know, short on substance, heavy on style?

OSTEEN: Well, to me, we're giving people hope.

Every week, we deal with people that have cancer, people that are having relationship issues. And just we deal with the nitty-gritty of life. And, so, I can't see how it being light to help people have hope and encouragement. And, so, I really don't think about it that much. I just do what I know I'm called to do.

LEMON: Well, they say, you know, he doesn't get in there, and it's not fire and brimstone and preach the Gospel. But you say, that's really not what you're about. That's not what you think God put you here for.

OSTEEN: I don't know so. And the Gospel is translated good news. It's supposed to be a message of hope or something good we have to offer, and, you know, that Christ has forgiveness for our sins, and that any of us can rise higher. We can overcome any obstacles in our past or any obstacles in our future.

And, so, to me, that's what it's all about, knowing that God is for us, he's in us, and he wants us to succeed.

LEMON: OK.

Before we talk about your book, let's also talk about -- because every -- I mean, you have done very well. You have had two books now that have been bestsellers. And you have got this huge following again. So, people talk about the money...

OSTEEN: Sure.

LEMON: ... and how well you're doing, as if it's some sort of criticism or something that's bad. What do you say to that, to people who say, you know, he's making all that money on people, and he's supposed to be a preacher; he's not supposed to be making all that money?

OSTEEN: Well, you know what? We never did it -- I never did it for the money. I didn't know my book was going to sell so many millions of copies.

And, so, you know what? I don't think there's anything wrong with being blessed. It's the love of money that gets people messed up. And if our goal is just to make money, to see how great we are, I mean, that's where I think there's a -- you know, you get off course.

But our goal is to help people, and that the money is a byproduct. And I really never even think about it. I haven't changed how I lived eight years ago.

LEMON: Yes.

When -- I was watching you, I have to tell you, one Sunday. It came on. I was watching the Sunday talk shows, and you came on right after. And it was almost as if -- you were talking about visualization. And it was almost as if you were talking about there's this thing called the secret.

OSTEEN: Yes.

LEMON: That sort of thing.

And I said -- you know, I called Don Iloff, who is your brother- in-law, as well as your media person, and I said, it sounds he's been -- Joel has been watching or listening to "The Secret."

Do you take these things from popular culture and infuse them into your -- what you tell people on Sundays? OSTEEN: I don't know if I would necessarily -- I have never read the book. I think there are some principles in it that possibly are the same -- or some principles from God's word about, you have to, you know, as a man thinks, he will become.

But I don't necessarily think that I take it from that. I just study a lot of different things. But I do know lot of the principles today. I mean, for instance, if you give, you are going to be blessed. That's a principle in God's word.

LEMON: What do you want to -- what do you want -- because, obviously, the book is a bestseller. You don't need anyone's help in selling it, but what do you want folks to get from this book? Obviously, you say it's seven keys to improving your life every single day.

It doesn't -- you know, I don't -- there's nothing on the cover about God that you see.

OSTEEN: Well, to me I'm trying to reach people that wouldn't necessarily go to church or people that do, just to inspire them to come up higher.

I think it's easy to get stagnant in life, in a relationship, in our attitude, even in our walk with the lord. And the -- the purpose of the book is to say, you know, don't get stuck in a rut. Know that God wants you to rise higher.

LEMON: All right. I got one more question for you.

OSTEEN: Yes.

LEMON: Do you ever think of politics? You ever think of running? Would you run for office, ever?

OSTEEN: You know, I would never say never, but I -- that doesn't seem in me. I love what I'm doing now. It just doesn't seem like that is in me.

LEMON: It appears to be the next step. So, I'm going to hold you to that.

(LAUGHTER)

OSTEEN: OK. OK.

LEMON: Joel Osteen, it's a pleasure seeing you.

OSTEEN: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: And how is the wife? How Victoria and everyone? Your mom?

OSTEEN: She's doing -- everybody is doing great.

LEMON: Good. OSTEEN: Appreciate you asking.

LEMON: Joel Osteen, thank you for joining us -- Betty.

Well, never a dull moment when this guy is talking, but is America ready for President Joe Biden?

Stick with us. You can judge for yourself.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BUSINESS REPORT)

LEMON: Hurt and anger -- Oprah Winfrey talks about her feelings surrounding those allegations of abuse at her school.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Some developing news happening here in the CNN NEWSROOM at the bottom of the hour. This is from Jamestown, Tennessee. It's in Saint Fentress County, right near the Kentucky border. A helicopter has crashed. Now, just to show you -- give you an idea of where that is -- again Jamestown, Tennessee.

Here's what we know. Authorities say they are responding to a report of a fatal helicopter crash near the Kentucky line. A dispatcher says units are on the way to the scene of that crash. It is in a rural, wooded area in Fentress County near a creek bed. We're also told -- this according to the Associated Press -- it is a privately operated helicopter and it may have been carrying up to three people.

State emergency officials confirm to the Associated Press there have been fatalities. Again, Fentress County is on the Cumberland Plateau near the Kentucky border, about 60 miles northwest of Knoxville.

CNN is working its resources to try to get you some pictures from that and also talk to our affiliates, which would be in the Knoxville area.

As soon as we get more information, we'll update you on that.

In the meantime, Betty Nguyen is over our Pakistan desk -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Yes, speaking of resources, I want you to take a look at our Pakistan desk -- a, our international desk -- where we have people on the phone. They are also in meetings, talking about the coverage and what is going on inside Pakistan at this hour.

In fact, for the past couple days, Pakistan has been on a state of emergency.

And we want to get the latest of what this means not only for Pakistan, but for the U.S., as well. Because just moments earlier, the president made mention as to what he wants to see happen in Pakistan. Our senior Arab affairs editor, Octavia Nasr, is here.

You've been following that. The president says he wants this state of emergency to be done with and get on with the election process.

How is that playing on the Arab media, as well as Pakistani television?

OCTAVIA NASR, SENIOR EDITOR, ARAB AFFAIRS: You know, that's a very interesting question. We're watching here Pakistani media and Arab media, as you said, with a colleague visiting from Geo TV, Majid -- here -- Siddiqui. And a colleague from CNN, Mariam Farouq (ph), both Urdu speakers. And, basically, the independent television stations took the press conference live, but the government owned station, Pakistan Television, left it alone. As a matter of fact, they're discussing right now the state of emergency and not a single mention yet of what President Bush had to say to President Musharraf of Pakistan.

NGUYEN: But wait a second. Earlier today, they weren't even discussing the state of emergency. They were playing some show that they had taped years earlier.

So this is a bit of a change, isn't it?

NASR: This is a bit of a change. They're admitting, at least, that there is a state of emergency. But, again, you know, what Mariam (ph) has been doing, she's been calling people in Pakistan to see what they can see on television. The only thing that they can see is Pakistan Television.

And, basically, up to this point, there was no mention of a state of emergency or any trouble. But I think Majid had a very interesting observation. When the president sent a clear message to President Musharraf -- President Bush sending a clear message to President Musharraf, he was listening to the commentary on his station, Geo-TV.

NGUYEN: And what did they say?

What did that sound like?

MAJID SIDDIQUI, GEO-TV PRODUCER: They said that Musharraf -- when George W. Bush, the president of America, was making a statement for Pakistan -- for the emergency in Pakistan. Though he said that it's not just something for America and he solicited General Musharraf to end this state of emergency and restore democracy in Pakistan...

NGUYEN: Right.

SIDDIQUI: But the commentator on Geo said that he was not too strong and he praised the rule of General Musharraf in Pakistan...

NGUYEN: Really?

SIDDIQUI: So this is, basically, another clear message to -- to the people of Pakistan and the president.

NGUYEN: So they're distorting, basically, what was said earlier by the president and providing how they would like -- at least the government would like the people of Pakistan to view what has happened today.

SIDDIQUI: Yes.

NGUYEN: All right.

We do appreciate your time in monitoring the situation in Pakistan.

Octavia, as always, thank you -- Don.

LEMON: All right, thank you very much for that, Betty.

Pakistan is not the only diplomatic crisis on Washington's radar. There's also Turkey's threat of a full scale military attack against Kurdish rebels in Northern Iraq.

Now, just a short time ago, President Bush met with Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in the Oval Office and reinforced his support for Erdogan's government.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We had a long discussion about a common concern. And that concern is the PKK. The PKK is a terrorist organization. They're an enemy of Turkey. They're an enemy of Iraq. And they're an enemy of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: White House Spokeswoman Dana Perino says the Bush administration is offering to share intelligence on the PKK rebels to help Turkey with, "limited and targeted exercises."

Stunned and devastated, Oprah Winfrey talked today for the first time publicly about allegations of abuse at her elite girls school in South Africa. She promises to do whatever it takes to make sure her girls are safe.

Now, the suspect, a dorm matron, denies she hurt anyone. In court this morning, the 27-year-old woman was freed on a $450 bond. She was arrested Friday, about a month after the allegations came to light.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY HARPO PRODUCTIONS INC.)

OPRAH WINFREY, LEADERSHIP ACADEMY FOUNDER: It has shaken me to my core, but at the core of me is a spiritual foundation and a belief that all things happen for a reason and that no matter the devastation, this, too, shall pass. And so it is my spiritual belief -- beliefs and support -- I've had friends who have held me in their hearts and had my back and understanding that the most important priority for me here was to figure out how I could best help the girls.

You know, when I first ahead about it, I spent about a half hour crying -- moving from room to room in my house. I was so stunned I couldn't even wrap my brain around it. But, as I said earlier, within the hour, I pulled myself together and started making calls and preparing for what to do next and how to best look after the girls.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, teachers are now acting as dorm parents. And word is the school's headmistress will be leaving. And the moment Oprah Winfrey heard about the abuse charges, she asked several people she trusted to go with her to South Africa. One was noted child psychiatrist Bruce Perry. He works with a number of traumatized children, including survivors of the Columbine school shooting. His book, "The Boy Who Was Raised As A Dog," is based on his work with children.

And Dr. Perry, back in Houston today. And he is with us on the air.

Thank for you joining us, sir.

DR. BRUCE PERRY, CHILD PSYCHIATRIST, CHILD TRAUMA ACADEMY, HOUSTON: Thank you for having me.

LEMON: A very emotional moment for Oprah Winfrey. I mean we see her on her show, but this seems very personal, very real.

Your response to the way she reacted and how she's dealing with it?

PERRY: Well, I have to say that I've been involved in a number of high profile incidents where there have been systemic problems and abuse of children within institutions. And it is refreshing to see how incredibly proactive she has been in being forthright, in putting in place groups of experts to work on improvement of systems, to try to investigate, to get to the bottom of the problems.

LEMON: And she called you right away?

PERRY: Yes.

LEMON: And she turned to you, as she turned to Dr. Phil, during a trial for, I would imagine, spiritual guidance, not only for -- and psychological guidance -- not only for her, but mostly for the children, as well?

PERRY: Well, I think that's the point. As she said, she put aside her own personal issues pretty quickly and focused on the girls right away and reached out to people like me, who have expertise working with children who have been impacted by trauma.

LEMON: So, tell us how is this comparatively to other situations, obviously, this being a school in South Africa. The girls there don't have the base -- the family base -- most of them -- or many of them, I should say -- that children here in the U.S. may have.

How -- does this differ, in your experience, the way you dealt with this, as to what you would deal with in the U.S.?

PERRY: Well, some things are similar and some things are different, of course. But one of the things that's quite unique and actually quite pleasurable is that these girls themselves are incredibly resilient. Even though they've come from really, really difficult backgrounds, many of them, almost all of these girls have had significant adversity in their lives, yet they've become incredibly productive. They're kind girls. They're very bright. So it's very refreshing to work with a group of girls like that.

And then it's also very refreshing to work with someone like Oprah, who is willing to take advice from people with expertise and take the steps necessary to make this place an even more incredible school.

LEMON: And, Dr. Perry, if you can respond to this real quickly, because we have a lot of news here concerning Pakistan...

PERRY: Sure.

LEMON: ...and a lot of other breaking news here.

I just want to know -- you meeting with the girls and speaking to them, do you think that they will be able to get over this without being scarred or being harmed in any way?

PERRY: I do. I think that they all have shown significant resilience to even more horrific experiences in their past and that this is something that they will get over.

LEMON: Dr. Bruce Perry, thank you.

PERRY: Thank you.

NGUYEN: Well, never a dull moment when this guy is talking. But is America ready for President Joe Biden?

Stick with us. You can judge for yourself.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: All right, listen to this -- Senator Joe Biden believes the crisis in Pakistan is exactly why America needs Joe Biden. Biden is attempting something rare in presidential politics -- he is running as a Washington insider and touting his expertise in foreign policy by his banking on a top three finish in Iowa. Otherwise, it may by curtains.

He spent some time with our Candy Crowley aboard the CNN Election Express, as it rumbled across the Hawkeye State.

And Candy joins us live, where it is very cold there -- hey, Candy. CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And getting colder, by the way.

But you're right. You know, the crux of Joe Biden's presidential campaign is for his experience, honed over almost 35 years in the Senate. So when it comes to the topic of Pakistan, it's right up his alley.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DE), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If I were president, I would be on the phone with Musharraf quietly. I would be making sure there's a guarantee that this election is going to go off in the next 60 days. I would be insisting that he set up an independent election commission to review whether the upcoming parliamentary election is going to be fair and is credible. And I would be suggesting he try to work out something with the Supreme Court in terms of reinstating the court and how they would reinstate it.

But I think you could probably drag that out a little bit. I think it matters how Musharraf would say and do these things. But I think he can lift martial law in the context of what I just said. And I think Bhutto would probably -- her party would probably go along.

CROWLEY: Do you think, at this point, the U.S. ought to be thinking about putting more troops on the border with Pakistan?

BIDEN: Absolutely. I've been saying that, Candy, for a long time now. And if you're Musharraf, and you see the last two years our entire attention being diverted to Iraq, us not being in a position where we look like we're really in it to stay in Afghanistan, then you start cutting your own deals.

So I would, as president, be using this -- what is referred to now as the Biden Exit Plan -- getting us the hell out of Iraq, leaving something stable behind, but beefing up -- beefing up our capacity along the border. That would, in turn, embolden our NATO allies to be more participatory with us. And that would then put us in the position, if we had actionable intelligence -- the fancy phrase, I know you know it -- actionable intelligence -- that we would, if Musharraf was not cooperating, I would not hesitate to act if I knew I had a target and knew my prospects of success were real.

CROWLEY: So you would go into Pakistan?

BIDEN: Well, I would under those circumstances. But I think what would happen is if that kind of action took place, you would see Musharraf emboldened then. Because these kinds aren't in his interests anyway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: Now, it won't surprise you that we talked a little politics with Biden, as well. I wasn't surprised to learn that if he doesn't win the Democratic nomination, he would not want to be a vice president on a Democratic ticket.

What did surprise me, Betty, is his reasons. And we'll have some of that later.

NGUYEN: Yes, that's coming right up. And we will be right back with that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Senator Joe Biden is banking on Iowa to vault his campaign into the top tier of Democrats.

Here again from Des Moines is CNN's Candy Crowley -- hey there, Candy.

CROWLEY: Hey, hello and good afternoon, Betty.

One of the things about Joe Biden is, A, he doesn't register in the national polls and, in fact, (AUDIO GAP), candidate, you don't get a lot of national exposure and you don't get very much time in the debates.

And he told me it does get to him at times.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BIDEN: It is frustrating, because things I know that I know a great deal about -- and I believe if the public had an opportunity to hear my views, would be helpful -- I don't get that chance as often. And so that's -- that gets frustrating.

But I really do have faith, Candy, that folks out here looking out this window at these farmhouses and in these small towns, I believe they're listening to me. And I believe I'm going to do very well here. This is the only level playing field out there -- to use that trade expression.

If I get by this, if I end up one, two or three, then I believe I'm the nominee, because all of a sudden, you're going to have to cover -- not you, I mean the national press will have to cover me.

CROWLEY: You know, your party has the chance to maybe nominate the first woman, maybe nominate the first black, maybe nominate the first Hispanic.

Is it not a white guy time at this point?

BIDEN: Well, it may not be. But I think what trumps all of that is my party has a chance to nominate somebody to save the world -- literally save. The direction this world is going in is an absolute disaster -- disaster. And four more years of this may be irreversible. And, you know, so I think that's going to end up trumping the fact that I am the first woman, the first black, the first Hispanic.

It's an old trite expression -- this is not a time for on the on- the job-training. And no matter how smart the next president is, you know and I know that they don't make really difficult decisions -- no matter how bright their advisers are -- unless they feel it in their gut. These are good, decent people, these Democrats. But it's going to take them a while to get their footing. We don't have a whole long time.

CROWLEY: They've brought you to where your plane is and so I know you've got to get going. But I have one requisite question.

BIDEN: Sure. No, take you...

CROWLEY: Vice president?

BIDEN: No. No. I promise, no. And the reason is -- I mean I think if I don't win the nomination, the likely nominee is going to be Hillary. And I love Bill Clinton.

But can you imagine being vice president?

CROWLEY: Well, explain it to me.

You think he just would overpower...

BIDEN: No, no, no. He is...

CROWLEY: ...who the vice president would be?

BIDEN: ...because he's -- he is such a dominant and a powerful and positive force that I think the question is if you -- if you're going to stay in public life, do you want to be a contributor and where can you contribute best?

And for me, I really believe that the best I can contribute best if I'm not the president would be as chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee.

CROWLEY: So you think he sort of would be -- kind of take that vice presidential role?

Is that what you're saying?

He would overshadow you?

BIDEN: Oh, I don't know. It's just -- it just is -- I think you're going to -- I think it would not be something where the next vice president is going to have all that much input. And I don't want to, you know, I'm not looking for a ceremonial post.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

CROWLEY: We talked to Hillary Clinton (AUDIO GAP)

NGUYEN: All right, Candy, we're going to have to interrupt you there, because we really can't hear you. We see you talking, but we can't hear you. We're having some audio problems there.

We do want to you let know this, though, there's more political news in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Wolf Blitzer talks with Democratic presidential hopeful, John Edwards, in an exclusive interview from Iowa.

And, in case you didn't know, Wolf will come to you live from -- for three straight hours later today.

LEMON: Oh, unbelievable.

NGUYEN: It's a new schedule

LEMON: And we couldn't hear her, but it was a great interview.

NGUYEN: Oh, it was fantastic.

LEMON: A very insightful interview. Yes, I enjoyed that. And we're looking forward to seeing more in THE SITUATION ROOM.

And speaking of "THE SIT ROOM" or "THE SITUATION ROOM," time now to check in with CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

NGUYEN: Yes. He is standing by live. And we know you've got a lot of work ahead. Three straight hours -- Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": We've got three hours of hard news, including the chaos in Pakistan. Coming up, "THE SITUATION ROOM" exclusive -- the former prime minister, Benazir Bhutto, talks with us about what's going on in her country and what happens next.

How concerned about her security is she?

And one year to go before the 2008 election -- also coming up, we have some brand new CNN poll numbers on where all the candidates stand right now.

Plus, a key voice in the Republican political world explains why his party faces an uphill battle.

And even more trouble for Fred Thompson -- a good friend who's raised millions for Thompson's campaign has a troubled past. We'll let you know what's going on on that front.

All that and a lot more coming up in "THE SITUATION ROOM" -- three straight hours, beginning at the top of the hour -- back to you.

NGUYEN: I'll be watching every single hour.

LEMON: All right, thank you.

NGUYEN: Just as you will.

LEMON: I'll be watching. I'm watching right now.

Thanks -- Wolf.

LEMON: You can't call it the G-Phone, but Google has a new venture to tell you about. That and the closing bell, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Don, it's about that time -- the closing bell just about to ring on Wall Street.

LEMON: Oh, yes. That's -- and that's our cue, like, to get out of here, right?

NGUYEN: Yes.

LEMON: That and then Wolf.

Susan Lisovicz standing by with a final look at the trading day.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The closing bell is about to ring. And we're going to ring up a new cell phone -- the G-Phone, except it won't actually be called the G-Phone.

All right, let me step back. Google today confirming long -- well, rumors that have been out in the

Marketplace for a long time now that it is going to be entering the mobile phone market, except it's not going to make a phone. It's going to provide its software free of charge to manufacturers.

The folks at Google say, well, this is going to change the whole mobile market -- the whole smartphone market. Its shares are up another 2 percent -- $725 a share. That could increase the competition for, say, the iPhone. But it could also bring the price of cell phones down. So that's something interesting to watch out for -- for people like you, Mr. Lemon, who like your gadgets.

LEMON: Uh-huh.

LISOVICZ: Uh-huh. OK. You're going to just sort of sit and wait until you make your decision on your next phone.

LEMON: Lay in wait.

You know, I just got the new Blackberry so I'm good for now.

NGUYEN: And he's been showing it off, too.

LEMON: It's fancy. It's the new -- what is this...

NGUYEN: It is not that new, Don.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

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