Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Pakistan In Crisis; Ex-Top Cop In Trouble; Damaging Testimony; Billion Dollar Payout; Gerri's Top Tips

Aired November 09, 2007 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Rundown for you this morning.
An opposition leader buttonholed. An entire city locked down. Pakistan's government heads off a big protest against emergency rule.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: He called the shots for the NYPD. Now the law takes aim at him. Bernard Kerik indicted. What does it mean for Rudy Giuliani campaign?

HARRIS: The tab close to $5 billion. Merck agrees to settle thousands of Vioxx lawsuits.

This Friday, November 9th, you're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: Breaking news this hour. Pakistan's fight for democracy under siege. Barbed wire and guards block former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto from leaving her home. Her supporters barred from marching. CNN's Zain Verjee is on the phone now from Islamabad this morning.

Zain, most of the morning I know you were outside of Bhutto's house. Describe a little bit what that scene was like.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Heidi, it was really a show of defiance from Benazir Bhutto. She is under lockdown today. Essentially house arrest, although a spokeswoman said they haven't been officially served with any detention order. But there were hundreds of police and security forces that were heavily armed surrounding her house. They refused to let her out.

What she was doing was trying to go to a rally that she called in a military garrison town nearby, called Raul Pindi. It was a wall of forces. They put trucks to obstruct her, barbed wire, concrete blocks.

What happened was, some of her supporters were able to cut the wires and she jumped into her car, which was a white bullet-proof Jeep, and she got on a megaphone. She criticized Musharraf and she had a message for the police saying, get out of the way. We are not the enemy.

She also talked to CNN. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENAZIR BHUTTO, FORMER PAKISTANI PRIME MINISTER: I'm calling upon my countrymen to join me. This is not a battle for Benazir Bhutto. This is not a battle for Pakistan people's party. This is a battle to save Pakistan. To save Pakistan from the forces of extremism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERJEE: Now, as we were standing outside, there were mostly journalists and a few of her supporters were able to break through the security barricade. When they started chanting, "down with Musharraf, down with Musharraf," and "we want Benazir Bhutto as prime minister," they were immediately jumped on, dragged away, and put in the vans.

Heidi.

COLLINS: So any idea -- what are we going to see the rest of the day over there? I mean we're not going to see any sort of rally whatsoever, right?

VERJEE: Well, no. I mean the rally essentially didn't happen because the police had blocked off the roads. They had refused anyone to enter Raul Pindi. What happened was, is that all these people came from places like Pisha (ph), which is in the north of the country, the frontier province, parts of another state here called Punjab (ph), and those are the people that clashed with police on the street. Police had to use tear gas and rubber bullets as well. There was another bomb blast in Pisha. We don't really know if it was related to that this day. Basically four people were killed at the house of a federal minister.

Heidi.

COLLINS: All right. CNN's Zain Verjee live for us this morning from Islamabad.

Zain, thanks so much.

HARRIS: From top cop to federal defendant. Just a short time ago former New York Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik surrendered to face corruption charges. Mary Snow is in White Plains, New York, with the latest developments.

Mary, good morning.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Tony.

And the former New York City police commissioner, Bernard Kerik, being processed, is expected to appear before a judge at noontime. This after an indictment that is expected to be unsealed later this morning. Prosecutors will detail the charges later on this morning as well. But we know from people close to this investigation that among the charges Kerik was facing is tax evasion. And he had turned down a plea bargain agreement earlier this spring.

You know, Tony, this really is a big fall from grace for Bernard Kerik, the one-time good friend of Rudy Giuliani. He has served as police commissioner under Rudolph Giuliani and this has been following the Republican presidential candidate on the campaign trails. Questions about his judgment came up.

Giuliani had endorsed Kerik in 2004 to become Homeland Security secretary. Kerik, at the time, said that he had to withdraw his nomination because questions over a nanny, but later legal problems unraveled and Giuliani and Kerik have been distanced from one another. Giuliani has said that he made a mistake on the campaign trail when asked by reporters about his choice of Kerik, saying that he should have been vetted much more carefully. But, of course, a lot of questions about just how this will impact Rudy Giuliani's presidential campaign.

We should point out, we called Bernard Kerik's lawyers a number of times. They have not responded to phone calls. And Bernard Kerik himself declined comment last night.

Tony.

HARRIS: OK. CNN's Mary Snow for us in White Plains, New York.

Mary, thank you.

COLLINS: Want to quickly get back to this story about Arthur Bremer. We now know that he has been released from prison after 35 years behind bars. You may remember him from 1972 when he attempted to assassinate Alabama's governor, George C. Wallace. That is the photo from back in 1972 when he was taken into custody. But, once again he has walked out of a Maryland correctional institute in Hagerstown, Maryland, and he apparently was all under a state program that releases people for good behavior and, of course, maintaining a prison job. So, once again, we now know that Arthur Bremer has been released from that facility in Hagerstown, Maryland, after 35 years behind bars.

HARRIS: And there's this. There is an agreement today in that massive lawsuit over the painkiller Vioxx. Drugmaker Merck offering $4.85 billion to ease the pain. It is one of the largest ever civil cases. Forty-seven thousand people and hundreds of possible class action lawsuits are involved. And nearly all of the plaintiffs have to OK the deal. What are the chances of that?

Merck pulled Vioxx from the market three years ago. Its own research shows the painkiller doubles the risk of heart attacks and strokes. The company still faces a number of government investigations. We will talk to a legal expert about this settlement just ahead.

Let's check the markets right now. All right, a moment ago -- well, a moment ago Dow was down 133 points. Now down 143 points. Still less than an hour into the trading day, so who knows where all this will go. I understand the Nasdaq is down. Tom, give me that number again? It was down 63 points? Down 48 points now. The Nasdaq down 48 points. All right. We're following the markets and the volatility in the markets for you all morning long right here in the NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: Damaging testimony against O.J. Simpson. A hearing to determine whether he'll stand trial for robbery and kidnapping resumes next hour. CNN's Dan Simon reports on yesterday's testimony.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move over, please.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): A familiar, noisy scene outside the courthouse as O.J. Simpson arrives, surrounded by lawyers, the media, and the curious.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have faith, O.J., all right!

SIMON: Inside, the hearing that will decide whether there's enough evidence for him to stand trial on a long list of charges, including kidnapping, robbery, and assault with a deadly weapon.

BRUCE FROMONG, SPORTS MEMORABILIA DEALER: There were probably between 600 to 700 items.

SIMON: First on the stand, Bruce Fromong, one of two memorabilia dealers who say O.J. Simpson robbed them.

FROMONG: There was a lot of yelling and screaming going on.

SIMON: Fromong describes a chaotic scene when Simpson and a group of men burst into his Las Vegas hotel room September 13th.

FROMONG: The second man came in with a drawn semi-automatic, which was pointed at me. And the first thing that I really remember from that was a statement made by Mr. Simpson saying, don't let anybody out of this room. Nobody leaves.

SIMON: Fromong said he thought he would be meeting an anonymous buyer who was interested in the memorabilia. Instead, he was confronted by an angry O.J. Simpson.

FROMONG: O.J. was screaming, this is all my -- he kept using the word (EXPLETIVE DELETED). This is all my (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You know, this all belongs to me. You know, you guys stole this from me.

SIMON: Fromong's testimony is critical because the most serious charges hinge on whether weapons were used. He says that two men were armed when they went into that hotel room.

FROMONG: He made the statement, I believe it was, I'll shoot your ass. And he made the statement, if we were in L.A., we'd do thing a lot differently.

SIMON: Simpson says no guns were involved in the confrontation and that he was merely taking back items that belonged to him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: And CNN's Dan Simon joining us now with more on this story.

So, Dan, how did the defense go about cross-examining Fromong? SIMON: Well, they're trying to make the point that he's not really a victim. That he's somebody who's really trying to capitalize on this incident. Somebody who is trying to perhaps do a book or movie deal. And they also got Fromong to admit on the stand that moments after this alleged robbery took place, he was dialing up a tabloid TV show trying to sell his story. But, in the end, he was a pretty effective witness.

Heidi.

COLLINS: Yes, he had made quite a few TV appearances, right?

SIMON: Yes. You know, he's somebody who says that O.J. Simpson and the others burst into that room, that he was confronted by guns and that, indeed, a robbery took place. So I think for the prosecution they accomplished their goal with him.

COLLINS: All right. So then what will happen when court actually resumes today?

SIMON: Well, when court recessed last night, the defense was about to cross-examine Thomas Riccio. He is also a sports memorabilia dealer. He's really the guy who engineered this whole hotel confrontation. The defense is going to try to paint him as an opportunist. Somebody who's really looking out for himself, as evidenced by the fact that he sold that angry confrontation, that audio tape, to tmz.com and he made some money off of it.

Heidi.

COLLINS: All right. CNN's Dan Simon coming to us live this morning from Las Vegas.

Dan, we know you'll be watching it. Thank you.

HARRIS: On the no-fly list for five years just for sharing a notorious name. One family's airport nightmare.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Heidi Collins.

Men's room? Women's room? Transgender bathroom battle. Who goes where? We'll hear from both sides.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: We are talking about that massive billion dollars Vioxx settlement. Merck offering nearly $5 billion to ward of thousands of lawsuits. Richard Nagareda, a law professor at Vanderbilt University, has some radical ideas about these kinds of lawsuits. He says they're transforming the legal system. He is the author of "Mass Torts In a World of Settlement."

And, Richard, thanks for your time this morning.

RICHARD NAGAREDA, VANDERBILT LAW PROFESSOR: Thank you.

HARRIS: Hey, are you surprised by this news this morning?

NAGAREDA: I'm not at all surprised because, as I've pointed out in my book, these sorts of mass tort lawsuits, once they really get off the ground and show that they have some capacity for plaintiffs to win at trial, are ultimately resolved through some sort of comprehensive settlement. And I think most thoughtful observers have understood that that was the direction that the Vioxx litigation was heading. So I'm not surprised at all to see this deal this morning.

HARRIS: So why settle now? You could have settled long ago. Why now and not then?

NAGAREDA: Merck could have settled a long time ago, but analysts were predicting an overall price tag of $10 billion to $25 billion. The price tag today is $4.85 billion. That makes a huge difference to the company.

HARRIS: And is that even enough? I mean I guess there are a lot of parties that have to agree to this deal for it to move forward. But is that going to be enough?

NAGAREDA: Well, there's some serious questions about the viability of these actual claims. It's actually hard to tell the difference between a Vioxx heart attack and a regular heart attack. And we're dealing with people who were prescribed a prescription pain medication. That's what Vioxx was. We're not dealing with ordinary, healthy people. We're dealing with people who were already at risk for any number of adverse health effects, including heart attacks. And so the question has always been, how can you set a reasonable amount to account for the uncertainty about whether this was really a Vioxx heart attack.

HARRIS: Yes. But this is so interesting because if you look at the litigation so far, Merck has won, what, 11 of these cases, lost five of these cases. So take us into the calculation by Merck. It almost feels like some kind of a business deal.

NAGAREDA: That's exactly what these settlements are. And that's part of the point that I've tried to alert people to in my book. These are business transactions. They have multibillion dollar stakes. They have a lot of moving parts. They have a lot of people who have to agree. But that's exactly what the plaintiffs' lawyers and the lawyers for Merck have put together here, a very complex business transaction.

HARRIS: Do you have any ideas on how this kind of a settlement impacts, say, government regulation? The work of the FDA?

NAGAREDA: Well, I think it's certainly an informative, you know, piece of data for the FDA to consider with respect to its regulatory policy about these kinds of drugs. But in this country, we've always thought that the tort system and the regulatory system basically move in parallel. So it's something for the FDA to think about, but it doesn't tie the FDA's hands in any way. HARRIS: How likely is it that people will see this money? Plaintiffs will actually get some of this money?

NAGAREDA: Well, it's really -- the important thing to bear in mind is that no one is forced to take this settlement. The plaintiffs' lawyers have promised that they'll recommend in favor of this settlement to their clients. But it's ultimately the clients' decision. And that's an important thing for ordinary folks to keep in mind here.

HARRIS: Richard Nagareda is a law professor at Vanderbilt University.

Richard, thanks for your time this morning.

And we are working to get an attorney from Merck, Jim Fitzpatrick, on the line with us and also the attorney for the plaintiffs in this case, Mark Lanier. We're working on that. We'll try to bring both of those points of view to you right here in the NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: Get the most out of your savings bonds. Gerri Willis will tell us when to hold them and when it fold them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Want to go ahead and take a look at the big board now. Ouch. We're down about 106 points, resting at 13,159. But you can read those numbers yourself. The Nasdaq also down by about 43 points.

Obviously yesterday the big story of the day, people still reacting to it, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke saying that he's still, obviously, concerned about the credit crunch and oil prices, but also sort of downplaying the fears of a recession. You probably heard that word being thrown around a little bit. Lots of controversy on it, too.

But yesterday the Dow Jones fell 33.73 points. So, of course, we are watching those numbers very closely today. Going to talk more about this big, huge Merck settlement too regarding Vioxx with Susan Lisovicz coming up in just a little bit.

HARRIS: Health insurance, savings, bonds, and 401(k)s. We are taking your e-mail questions today. There she is. "Top Tips" from Gerri Willis.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Tony.

HARRIS: Gerri, good to see you.

WILLIS: Happy Friday.

HARRIS: You ready to dive into the e-mail bag. Yes, happy Friday to you.

WILLIS: Happy Friday to you. Let's hit those e-mails. HARRIS: Yes, let's dive away here.

Michelle writes, question number one for you, "we buy our own health insurance and the price is going up. We really can't afford it anymore and hardly ever use it. Is there insurance," Gerri, "that will just cover big emergencies?"

WILLIS: Well, I've got to tell you, Michelle, health care premiums are going up at a rate more than four times your salary. Now what she's talking about is a catastrophic insurance plan. This kind of plan will cover big expenses, like hospital stays, surgery, intensive care, and lab tests. Deductibles are high. From $500, Tony, to $15,000 or more. Prescription drugs normally have a separate deductible. You can check out ehealthinsurance.com and insure.com to get some quotes. But this is for folks who aren't getting health from an employer, have to pay for it themselves.

HARRIS: Got you. Love that we have the website addresses up there for you. OK. Great.

Question number two is from Tara in Illinois. She writes, "since I was born, my grandmother has gotten me $50 savings bonds for my birthday. I got married recently and changed my name." Gerri, "is it going to be hard getting those bonds cashed? Also, when is a good time to cash them in?"

WILLIS: Well, I've got to tell you, Tara, Tara, Tara, even with a name change, cashing in your bonds isn't hard. But that's not the point. Maybe you want to wait until those bonds mature so you can get the full face value of those bonds instead of spending the money now. But you can find out how much your bonds are worth now by using a savings bond calculator. There's a great one at treasurydirect.gov.

If you do decide to cash them in now and you want to make sure you won't have any trouble with the name change, download the right forms at treasurydirect.gov. You take these forms, along with the original bonds to your bank. You'll be able to have your bonds reissued in your new name. Keep in mind, the best time to cash in bonds is on the first business day of the month since interest accrues on this day.

HARRIS: Nice. Nice. Nice. Are you ready for a little outrage?

WILLIS: Yes.

HARRIS: You ready? All right. Ken from Alaska writes, "my company is changing 401(k) managers. I have been told that I have to move to the new managing company." Gerri, "how can they control 'my' money in this way?"

WILLIS: I feel Ken's pain. I mean, you know, come on, it's my money, I should be able to run it.

HARRIS: Exactly.

WILLIS: I hate to break the news. The truth is that your company does control your 401(k) managers and they make changes often, as much as every three to five years. Now there's not much you can do about it. But keep this in mind. They're probably doing it for a good reason. The number one reason for making this change is underperformance of the funds.

Now the fund may also have very high fees or maybe the overall cost of the plan is just to expensive, so you may actually benefit from this change. And if you're really opposed, you just can't take it anymore, you can opt to put your money in an IRA and funnel all your future contributions there. But, look, if your employer is giving you a match, don't do it because you'll be giving away free money.

HARRIS: Yes, giving away money.

Hey, before we let you go, give us a little heads-up for everyone watching about the big "Open House" show this weekend.

WILLIS: Yes. Well, first of all, if you do have a question, following up on what we said earlier, toptips@cnn.com. Send us an e- mail.

The big "Open House" show at 9:30 a.m. Saturday, right here on CNN. We'll be talking about the presidential election. The contest coming up. What it means to you and who's looking after your pocketbooks. So join us at 9:30 a.m. right here on CNN, Saturday morning for "Open House."

HARRIS: Gerri, great to see you. Have a good weekend.

WILLIS: Thank you. You too.

HARRIS: Thanks.

COLLINS: You know how we always like to show you these cool pictures coming in live from space when we can. Here is what you are seeing. It's a space walk at the International Space Station.

Sort of picking up the job where the shuttle Discovery left off just a couple of days ago. Commander Peggy Whitson and a Russian crewmate, Yuri Malenchenko, got up a little bit early this morning, working on that harmony compartment. You know, that's going to eventually end up being the docking port for a European and Japanese laboratory. So what they have to do is get it ready to be moved and put in position.

This should have been done, actually, when Discovery was up there but you remember that solar wing that ended up ripping. They had to repair that and were not able to get this current work that is being done right now live on our air. Isn't it cool? So now they're doing it today. Excellent.

HARRIS: Men's room? Women's room? Transgender bathroom battle. Who goes where? We will hear from both sides just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS: And welcome back, everyone, to the CNN NEWSROOM. Good morning. I'm Tony Harris.

COLLINS: Hi there, everybody. I'm Heidi Collins.

A dead end to a march for democracy in Pakistan. Barbed wire and guards prevent former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto from leaving her home. You see her there trying to persuade police to allow her out. Bhutto had planned to lead a major march against the state of emergency. Meanwhile, that planned rally in Raul Pindi crushed. Police using tear gas and batons chased off hundreds of Bhutto supporters. Washington is again calling for an end to emergency rule and for Bhutto's release. The White House says it's "crucial" for Pakistan's future that moderate political forces work together.

HARRIS: CNN has been yanked off the air in Pakistan, along with other independent news organization. The government blocking the media, but it can't silence the Internet. CNN's Isha Sesay is monitoring feeds and blogs. She's at the international update desk here at CNN Headquarters.

Isha, great to see you.

The blogs, huh, democracy in action.

ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Tony. The blogosphere is ablaze. It's on fire. Lots of people posting their opinions. We've been searching online to find out what people are actually saying about the situation there in Pakistan. And one of the things we've noticed is that there are a number of new blog spots (ph). These are private blogs that anyone can set up and they've been created to talk about the current crisis in Pakistan. Among the names that caught our eye, Tony, I know you'll like this, one was Free Pakistan and the other one was Musharraf Sucks.

HARRIS: Whoa.

SESAY: And I think you can guess the editorial leanings of the one that has sucks in its title.

HARRIS: Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

SESAY: All right. But a posting on Pakistan Marshal Law also caught our eye and I want to read some of it. It reads, "even as the military declares war on civil society, it has set in motion its own demise. The response of the police state to the various student protests around the country has laid bare its own cowardice. They are scared of the students."

On pakistani.com a post commented on the effect of the government's action are having on ordinary Pakistani. It goes, "As one watches the heroic struggle of the lawyers and now the students to stand up and speak out despite the brutality they're met with, these makes the desire to do something even more intense."

Interesting also, Tony, Talal Hussain Malik writes about what he calls "The 10 greatest lies" of today on pakistanispectator.com. I wonder whether our viewers agree. The top three being, number one, the state of emergency has paved the way to obtaining true democracy in the country. Two, General Musharraf has introduced true democracy in Pakistan. And, three, the election will be free and fair.

And from Egypt, Zenobia writes on globalvoicesonline.org, "This is how dictators act when they feel that their thrones and rule are in danger. What Musharraf is doing is not an attack on democracy. What he's doing is just like suicidal attack in order to preserve his own existence." Tony, very, very strong views. Want to bring those to, you know, our audience. Again, just so that they know the different perspective and different voices out there on the blogosphere.

HARRIS: Isha, appreciate it. Thank you.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Myanmar's iron fisted junta making a major step toward reconciliation. The government allowed opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi to meet with her top party members for the first time in more than three years. Suu Kyi who's under house arrest held talks with U.S. special envoy Ibrahim Gambari yesterday. Gambari has been in Myanmar all week promoting dialogue between pro-democracy forces and the junta. Opposition party members say Suu Kyi is extremely optimistic about reconciliation efforts.

HARRIS: An ex-top cop facing federal corruption charges. Former New York Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik surrendered just a short time ago according to sources. An indictment against Kerik unsealed this morning. We expect to hear from federal prosecutors next hour. No details of the exact charges just yet, but sources said earlier this week prosecutors were looking into allegations of bribery and tax evasion. Kerik is a former nominee for Homeland Security Secretary. He's also a long-time friend and former business partner of presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani. I understand CNN's Mary Snow has just obtained a copy of the indictment. She is working her way through it right now, and she will be joining us momentarily.

The watch list for suspected terrorists is still trapping thousands of innocent travelers. CNN's Kelli Arena reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Traveling is a nightmare for the Thompson family.

JOHN THOMPSON, COLORADO BUSINESSMAN: Every time I fly, I go through additional security screening, and it takes a minimum of -- it's about 20 minutes now. Before it was about an hour. Even longer in some circumstances.

ARENA: John Thompson shares a name with an IRA terrorist on the government's no-fly list. So does his father, John Thompson, and his 16-year-old son, John Thompson.

10 years old was the first time he got yanked out of the line, and actually had additional screening done and it was pretty traumatizing for him. ARENA: The no-fly list is about 40, 000 names on it including aliases. It's part of a much larger and growing terrorist watch list managed by the FBI's top secret terror screening center. The government says, in the last eight months 16,000 people have applied to get their name cleared off the no-fly list. Only about half have been successful. But even then, officials can't guarantee that they won't get hassled at the airport.

KATHLEEN KRANINGER, HOMELAND SECURITY DEPARTMENT: We cannot promise that an individual that goes through the redress process will never be secondary screened again.

ARENA: Apparently, they can't even guarantee a response at all. Thompson says he's been trying for five years. He's filled out all the necessary forms and sent relevant documents, but still hasn't heard a thing. Lawmakers want more accountability.

BENNIE THOMPSON, (D) HOMELAND SECURITY CHAIRMAN: If the people lose faith, the watch list will go the way of color-coded terror alerts and become fodder for late night comedians rather than reassurance that the United States government is protecting its people.

ARENA: Right now, airlines are in charge of matching passenger names against the no-fly list, and the government says once it takes over that job, which is expected next year, misidentification shouldn't be an issue. Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: CNN "Security Watch" keeps you up to date on safety. Stay tuned day and night for the most reliable news about your security. Let's get you now to Mary Snow, White Plains, New York. She has in her hands a copy of the indictment against Former New York City Police Commissioner Bernie Kerik. Mary, you had a bit of an opportunity to work through it.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ye, Tony. Now, we're getting the details of these charges in this corruption case. We see 16 counts being filed against Bernard Kerik. Among some of them is failing to report benefits from a company that was looking to do business with the city. Tax evasion. We had expected that. Also, one of the things that this indictment charges is that it charges Kerik with making multiple false statements to the White House and other officials in connection with his application to, in a nomination process when he was being considered as Homeland Department Secretary. This was back in 2004.

So, these are some of the bulk of the charges. Now, the U.S. Attorney's office here in the southern district, saying if convicted, now, this of course is the maximum, that the maximum aggregate sentence would be 142 years of imprisonment and $4.7 million in fines. Of course, this is the maximum. These are only charges. Now, Kerik's attorney has been unavailable for comment, but he has been saying all along that he would fight these charges if they were brought, and, of course, he said that he was confident that he would win. Still going through this indictment, but again, Tony, it appears there are 16 counts being brought against Bernard Kerik, the former New York City police commissioner under Rudy Giuliani, the Republican presidential candidate.

HARRIS: OK. Mary Snow for us in White Plains, New York. Mary, thank you.

COLLINS: A proposed anti-discrimination law at the center of a battle over bathrooms. Lawmakers in Montgomery County, Maryland, say they want to protect the transgender. Critics say there's a safety issue. Duchy Trachtenberg, pardon me, is a Montgomery Council member who supports the law and Dr. Ruth Jacobs is with Citizens for a Responsible Curriculum. She opposes the measure there, both joining us from Washington. Well, in this introduction, we say that this is with bathrooms. Duchy, is this about bathrooms?

DUCHY TRACHTENBERG, MONTGOMERY COUNTY COUNCIL: Absolutely no. This is a civil rights piece of legislation that would simply afford protection to transgender individuals. The law, the county law, or as well as the charter, would be amended so that there would be no discrimination allowed in housing and employment and other transactions such as banking. And basically, this is legislation that has not a radical nature at all. It's actually been passed in over 100 jurisdictions throughout this country and notably in the Washington area both in Baltimore City and right here in Washington, D.C.

COLLINS: But what happens in the bathrooms then? Just because the legislation doesn't address it specifically, isn't that something that has to be talked about?

TRACHTENBERG: Not at all. In the jurisdictions where this legislation has passed, it's very clear that there's been no reported incidents of intimidation or harassment, and what we are telling folks is that...

COLLINS: I guess, pardon my interruption, but I guess I'm wondering where will the transgender people use the restroom facilities? Where do they go?

TRACHTENBERG: The fact is that in the jurisdictions where the bill has passed, there's been no incidents of harassment or any kind of problem, complaints, and most importantly there are laws that exist that protect people in public facilities.

COLLINS: OK, I'm sorry I keep hammering, but I don't hear you answering the question. I guess what I'm trying to understand is that if you are a man, but you think that you are a woman or you feel like one, then you will be allowed, will you not, to be able to use the female restroom facilities?

TRACHTENBERG: What I know is that there's been a lot of public discussion promoted by a very small group of individual that are exaggerating exactly what would happen in public facilities, and that's unfortunate. It's fear-mongering, and it's not surprising, but, again, we're not going to have anything in the final legislation that's going to put children or adults at risk for any kind of intimidation or harassment in public facilities.

COLLINS: OK, Dr. Jacobs, let me get to you. What are your thoughts on that?

DR. RUTH JACOBS, CITIZENS FOR A RESPONSIBLE CURRICULUM: Well, I would like to start out with the words of Councilman Levinthal (ph) from one of our constituents. She wrote saying, "What would happen? Could my daughter be in a dressing room with a person who asserts himself as female that has male genitals," and that was his quote. He said, I cannot allay your concern that your daughter might find herself in a dressing room with a person who asserts herself as female but still has male genitals.

COLLINS: So, clearly you see this as a safety issue, but the fact of the matter remains, it's also a physical issue. I mean, transgendered people have to use restroom facilities, too. So, what is your solution, Dr. Jacobs?

JACOBS: I have no objections to unisex bathrooms. I believe the council has actually stated that that's too expensive and those they can't consider it. So instead, I think the solution is to impose on women, and that is not the way we should be going with this bill.

TRACHTENBERG: You know, again I think this is fear-mongering, and unfortunately, it's again a small group of people who are doing this, and the reality is same legislation has passed in over 100 jurisdictions, and not in one of those jurisdictions has access to facilities been a problem.

COLLINS: Yes, and obviously it takes one. So, we will follow this story and keep everybody informed about it. Once again happening in Montgomery County. Some interesting legislation there on transgender bathroom facilities. So, to the both of you, thanks so much. Duchy Trachtenberg and Dr. Ruth Jacobs, thank you.

TRACHTENBERG: Thank you very much.

HARRIS: The charge robbery. What kind of hand will a Las Vegas judge deal O.J. Simpson?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

This is CNN. The most trusted name in news. Now, back to the CNN NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: Getting word of a deadly fire in Rochester, New York, that we want to tell you more about. Fredricka Whitfield is in the NEWSROOM down, has been looking into this a little bit. Fred, what do we know at this point?

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Heidi, very sad story. This is a deadly fire taking place in off campus housing at a rental apartment off the campus of the Rochester Institute of Technology. And you're looking at the pictures right now that are coming in. Early morning fire. Somehow the blaze ignited there in this rental house. In the end, two students who are believed to be students of the Rochester Institute of Technology died in this fire.

Three others were rescued and uninjured. One was actually rescued from the second floor. Firefighters there, responding to the scene using one of their ladders to get to one of the students in the upper level. Another student found below. Nonetheless, horrible fire here as you're seeing in this video. Two students from Rochester Institute of Technology died in this fire. Three others rescued. Still unclear the cause of this horrible fire taking place in off- campus housing in this rental house in Rochester. We'll get any more information on this, Heidi, we'll be able to get it to you.

COLLINS: Boy, oh boy, that's terrible. All right, we'll stay in touch with you on this one. Thank you.

HARRIS: To business news now. Merck is hoping it can settle 27,000 Vioxx-related lawsuits all at once. Stephanie Elam is at the New York Stock Exchange with details. Stephanie, great to see you. Merck hopes to settle, hopes to settle, but a lot of people have to sign on to this plan before it can move forward.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Tony. It's a lot of money we're talking about here for Merck, obviously, and it says it will pay nearly $5 billion to settle most of the 27,000 or so claims linked to Vioxx. The company had long said it would fight every single lawsuit associated with the painkiller, but this is a bit of a change in course here for Merck because it will pay the money into a settlement fund. Those with qualifying claims will enter into a resolution process and payouts will be evaluated on an individual basis based on the length of their Vioxx use and severity of their ailments. Here's the interesting part though. It's not considered a class action settlement.

Vioxx hit the market as a blockbuster drug for Merck that was back in 1999, but it was pulled off Pharmacy shelves due to safety and concerns. That happened in September 2004. Now, the fund will be split into two parts. One, for people who claim to have had heart attacks. The other for those claiming to have had strokes. Analysts say the amount of the settlement is at the low end of expectations. So, while it might sound a little bit surprising when you see a hit of this much, a $5 billion, the stock is actually doing better today. Taking a look right now, it's up over 4 percent. So, obviously this is good news in the eyes of investors, Tony.

HARRIS: Yes. The idea of sort of trying to get it all behind you, get the pain over with as quickly as possible. But you know what, speaking of pain...

ELAM: I was going to say no pun intended.

HARRIS: For the rest of the markets right now, Stephanie?

ELAM: Yes. This is a third day in a row that we're seeing these losses here on Wall Street. A late day rally yesterday brought some hope that is perhaps the worst was over, but once again follow up on the mortgage crisis is hurting sentiment. This time we're looking at Wachovia Bank. And it's saying it will go ahead and write down more than a billion dollars in losses connected to the mortgage market. So that's, you know, another big company saying that they're being hit by this. It makes a difference here for the street. This comes after the fourth largest bank reported a 10 percent drop in third quarter income last month, taking a $1.3 billion write down at that time.

Wachovia is not considered to have heavy exposure to the mortgage market, which is what may be rattling some nerves here. Still, if you take a look at their shares, they're on the downside by more than 2.33 percent right now. As for the rest of the market, the Dow industrials slipping 163 points off about 1.25 percent right now. We've hit the negatives right out the gate this morning, 13102. NASDAQ losing about 2 percent. And the S&P off more than 1 percent. So, obviously, we'll be keeping our eyes on this and see if we could still make some gains on the week. But you know, Tony, I know just a little perspective for the year. The Dow is still up. So, that makes anyone feel better.

HARRIS: Well, I hope so at the end of the day. The perspective. Keep it in context. All right, Stephanie, great to see you.

ELAM: Right. Thanks, Tony, you too.

COLLINS: Time to check out some of the most popular video on cnn.com now. Former New York Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik indicted on federal corruption charges. Kerik surrendered to federal authorities a short time ago. He is a former nominee for Homeland Security Secretary.

Also, getting a lot of hits. The man convicted of shooting and paralyzing Former Alabama Governor George Wallace has been released from prison. Arthur Bremer served 35 years.

COLLINS: And many of you are clicking onto the story about todays multibillion dollars offer to settle thousands of lawsuits over the painkiller Vioxx. Drug maker Merck is offering $4.85 billion to ease the pain. It's one of the largest ever civil cases. Nearly all of the plaintiffs have to OK the deal.

When you're not watching the CNN NEWSROOM on television, you can go to cnn.com for these stories and more, and while you're there, be sure you download the daily CNN NEWSROOM podcast.

HARRIS: Robin Williams plays the picket line.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBIN WILLIAMS, ACTOR: It was credit throughout history. Thomas Jefferson actually went out for the constitutional writers strike.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was very funny.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: He is not the only star supporting striking writers. Jeanne Moos reports straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HARRIS: OK. One of our favorite people, Betty Nguyen, standing by with a preview of what's coming up "CNN Saturday and Sunday morning."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you know someone who is desperate for a new heart, a kidney, maybe even a liver? 97,000 people in the U.S. are waiting for an organ donor right now and their lives depend on it. Because of that, some people are taking extreme measures to get the body part that they need to live. It's called transplant tourism. A National Geography's Lisa Ling will take us inside the business of buying body parts. Plus, what if you're entire town was destroyed; you lost everything, would you take the time to rebuild the right way, the green way. That's what's happening in Greenburg, Kansas. This small town is setting a standard for communities across the nation and I'll take you there. "CNN's Saturday and Sunday Morning" beginning tomorrow 7:00 eastern.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: All right, we'll be watching for that. Meanwhile, we're watching for -- Hi, rob. Are you there?

(WEATHER REPORT)

HARRIS: You know, you pick up the kids from school for a sleepover or a play date or something like that. You get home to hear the wife say, who is that?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Good morning again, everyone. You're with CNN. You're informed. I'm Tony Harris.

COLLINS: Hi there, everybody, I'm Heidi Collins. Developments keep coming in the CNN NEWSROOM on Friday, the 9th of November.

Here's what's on the rundown. An opposition leader pinned down at a home. A city blockage. Pakistan heads off a major protest against emergency rule.

HARRIS: O.J. Simpson back in court this hour. Will a Las Vegas judge put him on trial?

COLLINS: A boy goes home from school with grandpa, but wait, it's somebody else's grandpa. Honey, I picked up the wrong kid in the NEWSROOM.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com