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Witness Testifies O.J. Simpson Wanted Guns at Robbery; Officer's Third Wife Exhumed to Reexamine Death; Teen Shot to Death by Police after Argument with Mother; Bird Flu Discovered at British Turkey Farm
Aired November 13, 2007 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: I've got bad news. Mark Twain was wrong. Everybody talks about the weather, but here in Georgia they are doing something about it. Fed up with the drought, the governor is praying for rain. We're watching the skies.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: And while we wait for the autopsy on the mother of Kanye West, we're learning more about the cosmetic surgery that may or may not have played a role in her death. Our Brooke Anderson is on the case for us in L.A.
Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
PHILLIPS: And I'm Kyra Phillips. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
And we start the NEWSROOM this afternoon with live pictures from a Las Vegas courtroom, the third day of the hearing to decide whether O.J. Simpson stands trial for armed robbery.
We're learning two of Simpson's -- Simpson's co-defendants are officially pleading guilty today, something prosecutors hope will pump up their case. Let's go straight to our man on the scene now, CNN's Dan Simon.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don.
Some very dramatic testimony this morning with defendant Walter Alexander on the stand. He is one of those who took a plea deal in exchange for his testimony against O.J. Simpson. And indeed, he testified against O.J. Simpson.
He talked about how he and Simpson plotted beforehand about how they were going to go into that hotel room and basically have weapons and take all that stuff that was in that hotel room. He says Simpson told him, "I want you to," quote, "pack heat," because Simpson was concerned that the others in the room, the two memorabilia dealers, in particular, might have weapons themselves.
Let's listen now to some of what Alexander had to say, just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTER ALEXANDER, ALLEGED ACCOMPLICE: After he asked me if we could watch his back, then he kind of leaned forward and was like, "Hey, you think you can get some heat? Think you can get some heat, you know, just in case things go wrong. Just in case, you know, they may have heat. You know. Can you bring some heat?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did that mean to you?
ALEXANDER: That meant that he wanted me to help him to acquire some guns.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON: During that original plotting session, Alexander says that Simpson says, "Look, when you take those weapons, don't actually have them visible. I want you to have them kind of tucked in your clothing, sort of have them there to intimidate the people in the room."
But he says right before they actually entered into the hotel room O.J. Simpson changed his mind, telling the other defendant in this case, another person who is supposed to testify today, telling Michael McClinton, "OK, you know what? I want you to have the gun visible. We're going to go in there quickly. We're going to get our stuff, wave the gun around. Let's take the stuff and leave."
When it was all over, Alexander says he felt very uncomfortable about what had happened. He was nervous about it. He says O.J. Simpson was relaxed, however. He was laughing.
And Simpson basically told him, "Look, just say there were no guns in that room, because that stuff was basically mine. If we say there are no guns, there's not going to be a problem here."
Alexander, of course, very uncomfortable. He talked to the police, told him the truth, he says, and here he is testifying in court. The defense is about to cross-examine him. The court just went back in session -- Don.
LEMON: All right. CNN's Dan Simon.
Dan, we're going to also get one of our legal experts. Thank you for that. Get one of our legal experts to break down this case for us. He's standing by, listening for testimony. Avery Fisher [sic] will join us in the CNN NEWSROOM shortly. Avery Friedman.
PHILLIPS: Earlier this morning, just outside Chicago, a casket was hoisted from the earth. Inside, the remains of Kathleen Savio, the third wife of Police Sergeant Drew Peterson, her death getting another look, now that Peterson's fourth wife, Stacy, hasn't been seen in more than two weeks.
Reporter Regina Waldroup of CNN affiliate CLTV takes a look at both cases.
REGINA WALDROUP, CLTV CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Will County state's attorney and the Will County coroner and several members of the clergy were on hand for the exhumation of Kathleen Savio's body.
Investigators want to do a second autopsy on the body of the woman, because they believe that she may have been murdered and someone tried to cover it up.
(voice-over) The process to unearth Kathleen Savio's body began with a backhoe breaking through the earth at Queen of Heaven Cemetery. Once the casket was exposed, a crane hoisted it from its final resting place. Then a coroner's van transported it to the Will County morgue for a second autopsy.
Savio was the third wife of Bolingbrook Police Sergeant Drew Peterson. In 2004 she was found dead in a waterless bath tub. At the time her death was ruled an accidental drowning, but now investigators say her death looks suspicious and have reopened the case.
Will County state's attorney, James Glasgow, says there's a strong indication that Savio may have been murdered.
Meanwhile, the aggressive search to find Drew Peterson's current wife, Stacy, continues. The 23-year-old mother of two disappeared October 29. Police say 53-year-old Peterson is their prime suspect in this potential homicide investigation.
Bolingbrook police have relieved Peterson of his duties and suspended him without pay. Peterson, meanwhile, maintains he had nothing to do with Stacy's disappearance and that he believes his wife left him for another man.
(on camera) As for the autopsy results, officials say they won't be immediately available. And as for Kathleen Savio's family, they say they welcome this second autopsy, because they've always had suspicions about her death. As for Drew Peterson, his phone records from his home phone and cell phone have been subpoenaed by a grand jury.
Back to you.
PHILLIPS: Steve Carcerano is Drew Peterson's friend and neighbor. He's the one who found Kathleen Savio dead in her dry bathtub. He talked about it this morning with CNN's John Roberts.
STEVE CARCERANO, NEIGHBOR: I was actually on my way home that evening from work. And entering the subdivision, coming down my street, Drew pulled up next to me in the police car, was so happened that we were on the same street. And he asked me to go to the house within the next 10 to 15 minutes. He had a locksmith coming there, as well as her best friend. And I pulled up in the driveway, went next door and got her best friend, and we walked over to the house.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: We should say he pulled up in a police car, because he is a police sergeant.
ROBERTS: Why did he want you to go in the house? Did he suspect that something had happened to Kathleen?
CARCERANO: He said he was trying to drop off the kids for, like, the last day and a half, and she wasn't answering the door.
CARCERANO: And that wasn't like Kathleen not to do. If he was a couple minutes late she would, you know, be right on the phone with the police department.
ROBERTS: So you 00 you entered the room. Went into the house, you looked around. You found her in the bath tub. I know that you're not a trained investigator, but was there anything suspicious about the scene that struck you when you found her?
CARCERANO: No, not at all. I was in shock right away. When you see a dead body, it's not something you see every day.
ROBERTS: And what was Drew Peterson's reaction?
CARCERANO: He came -- after her best friend came in the bathroom, I yelled out her name a couple times. She started screaming. And that's when Drew came running up the stairs right into the bathroom. I'm looking at her. You know, he did check her pulse and then started screaming out, "What am I going to tell my kids?"
PHILLIPS: Drew Peterson divorced Kathleen Savio in 2003, several months before she died and three months before he married Stacy.
LEMON: A Brooklyn teenager arguing with his mother dies in a hail of gunfire. The shots fired by police.
CNN's Deborah Feyerick is keeping track of the latest developments for us. And Deb, all may not be as it appears in this case.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, we can tell you right now that the community leaders here in Bed-Stuyvesant are calling for calm in what is a very tense part of Brooklyn right now.
The head of a youth organization says that he has gotten word that gangs are actually talking about retaliating against police. And about half an hour ago, a small but very fired-up group of people here marched on the local police precinct, demanding justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got to realize one thing right here. Blacks are being gunned down in the streets. Not whites, not Jews, and not Italians. This is the reality of what our life is. This is not a (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Twenty shots. That man was shot, killed and handcuffed. This is the reality of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: Brooklyn prosecutors are working together with police from the internal affairs bureau, investigating this particular shooting.
It started last night at about 7 p.m. when a 911 dispatcher got a call from the victim's mother, and in the background, according to officials, you can hear the victim repeatedly saying, "I've got a gun. I've got a gun."
When the police dispatcher asked whether, in fact, that was the case, the mother is -- allegedly said, "You heard it from his own mouth."
Now, police did respond to this apartment building just here behind me. The man began climbing out of the window with what appeared to be a black object under his shirt. As he approached police, that is when five of them opened fire, discharging a total of 20 shots. It is unclear just how many of those bullets actually hit the victim. But he was handcuffed, put in a squad car and then taken to a local hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
Now key to all of this, I spoke to someone in law enforcement. Key to all of this is whether, in fact, police followed protocol which is put in place when responding to an emotionally disturbed person. All of that right now under investigation -- Don.
LEMON: And Deb, just -- just to make it clear, police are saying that they thought this hair brush, this black hair brush, was a gun as this person was approaching them, who is said to have had some mental problems.
FEYERICK: That's exactly right. And so what they have to do, what the police simply have to show is that, in fact, they felt that they were in danger and that this shooting was justified.
Remember, it was about 7 p.m. at night. It does get dark at 7 p.m. It's difficult to make out what kind of an object a person may have had. But again, also under investigation will be why, when one person started firing, the others followed suit. And that is always a big question in these kinds of police shootings -- Don.
LEMON: Deborah Feyerick joining us from New York. Thank you very much for that report.
PHILLIPS: Well, it couldn't have come at a worse time for British poultry farmers: the unexpected return of bird flu at a commercial turkey farm just as the holidays approach. And it's not just bad from a business standpoint. CNN's Phil Black has the latest now from London.
We hadn't heard about it in a long time, Phil. And now it's back.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kyra.
Yes, that's right. We knew that this particular outbreak was bird flu. We now know, and tests have confirmed, that it was -- it is the H5-N1 strain of the disease, a strain that scientists describe as highly pathogenic.
It moves through bird populations very quickly, and it has the potential, as we've seen in Southeast Asia, to jump from birds to humans, as well.
Now so far this outbreak is confined to a reasonably small farm: around 6,000 birds, mostly turkeys, also ducks and geese, as well. But the broader concern is in this region of Britain, there are millions of birds being found intensely, particularly in the lead-up to Christmas.
So the fear is that if this outbreak broadens, if it does move further, then this industry could be devastated at a time that is its busiest of the year.
And of course, there is the broader health concern, that if allowed to spread unchecked, it could spread to humans. And scientists have theorized for some time that this disease may have the potential to mutate in such a way that it can then move from humans to humans, as well.
Now Britain received its -- or experienced its first outbreak of the H5-N1 strain just earlier this year. This was at a turkey farm not too far from this one. Some 130 thousand birds were culled at that time. And it contained the disease.
Health officials here will be hoping for that same result on this occasion, as well -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, we'll follow it. Phil Black out of London. Thanks, Phil.
LEMON: So what really killed a suburban Chicago police officer's ex-wife three years ago? That question could be answered in an autopsy planned for today. The case reopened after the sergeant's current wife disappeared. We'll hear what a forensic expert has to say about it.
PHILLIPS: New details in the death of hip-hop star Kanye West's mother. Was cosmetic surgery to blame? We're going to have the latest on that.
LEMON: Plus, the quest to look better. We'll learn about the risks of cosmetic surgery from our medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.
LEMON: Fifteen after. Three of the stories we're working on for you in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Prosecutors hoping to bolster their case against O.J. Simpson today, day three of a Las Vegas hearing to determine if he stands trial on armed robbery charges. Two of Simpson's co-defendants are expected to officially plead guilty to lesser charges and testify against him.
She lost her freedom. Now she has lost her job. A Nebraska school board has fired Kelsey Peterson. She's the 25-year-old teacher accused of having sex with a 13-year-old student and running off to Mexico with him. They were found earlier this month in a border town.
British poultry farmers now reeling from an unexpected shock just weeks before the Christmas holiday. Officials confirm bird flu found on a farm in eastern England is the powerful strain that killed scores of people around the world.
PHILLIPS: Was she a casualty of cosmetic surgery? That's one of many questions surrounding the sudden death of Donda West, the mother of hip-hop superstar Kanye West. We're waiting for answers from the L.A. County coroner's office right now.
But let's get to L.A. and CNN's Brooke Anderson. She has been following this and, of course, waiting for that autopsy report.
BROOKE ANDERSON, ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Kyra.
We are getting more details now regarding the death of Donda West. Now, Beverly Hills plastic surgeon Dr. Jan Adams reportedly told TMZ he did, indeed, perform a cosmetic -- two cosmetic procedures on Donda West, a tummy tuck and a breast reduction. But he said that her death was unforeseen and could have been caused by a number of things, including a heart attack, a pulmonary embolism or massive vomiting.
He also said that she consulted with him over a period of four months and that he feels he did nothing wrong.
Dr. Adams is a high-profile plastic surgeon. He has appeared on "The Oprah Winfrey Show." He's also hosted "Plastic Surgery: Before and After" on the Discovery Health Channel, and he's written a book titled "Everything Women of Color Should Know About Cosmetic Surgery."
But Dr. Adams' life and career have been rocky. The California Medical Board tells us -- tells CNN that in 2001, Adams had to pay nearly half million a dollars in malpractice case judgments.
Also in April of this year, the medical board filed an accusation against him for misuse of drugs and alcohol after numerous DUI offenses over the past several years. No hearing has been held and no judgment has been made in terms of revoking or suspending his medical license.
We have reached out to Dr. Jan Adams numerous times but have received no response.
Another Beverly Hills plastic surgeon is also speaking out, Dr. Andre Aboolian. We received a statement from him, and he said that Donda West contacted him back in June to talk about having a cosmetic procedure.
And he said she really needed to get medical clearance. He thought it was very important, because she was over 40 years old. And, quote, "in this instance it was particularly important because of a condition she had that I felt that could have led to a heart attack."
Dr. Aboolian tells CNN that she was scheduled to see an internist, but he was informed that she never did see that internist. And he didn't hear from her after that.
So at this point, details are still a little bit sketchy. But Kyra, we are waiting for that autopsy. The L.A. County coroner's office tells us that they will perform the autopsy tomorrow. So specific cause of death may become a little bit clearer after that.
PHILLIPS: All right. We'll follow up. Brooke Anderson, thanks so much.
LEMON: Lord, let it rain. From their lips to God's ears. The appeal for divine intervention from the steps of Georgia's statehouse, in the NEWSROOM.
PHILLIPS: A Las Vegas landmark brought down in a flash, one of the oldest hotels on the strip reduced to rubble. You'll see it happen.
PHILLIPS: There's a final bow for the New Frontier. Cover your ears.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: And with that the 16-story new Frontier is now just ashes and rubble. The casino-hotel had a long and storied history on the Las Vegas strip. It was the second property to open there.
How much TNT do you think it took to bring it down? Well, if you guessed more than 1,000 pounds, you'd be right. A new multi-billion dollar resort is set to scoop up that location, but it won't open until 2011.
LEMON: Someone must have lit a fire under some investors on Wall Street. After some tough times for investors, stocks on Wall Street are sustaining a nice rally this afternoon, at least when we wrote that.
Stephanie Elam at the New York Stock Exchange with all the numbers and the reasons.
Stephanie, still a nice rally?
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wal-Mart offered a cautious outlook for the fourth quarter which includes the all-important holiday shopping season. Wal-Mart stock is up more than 6 percent, Don.
Have you done any of your holiday shopping?
LEMON: No, no. Are you kidding me? I haven't done my holiday shopping from last year. I mean...
ELAM: Come on now.
LEMON: I am so late when it comes to holiday shopping. You know, Kyra always helps me out. Order online, we're running through the stores like Christmas Eve.
ELAM: Such teamwork.
LEMON: I know, teamwork. Hey, listen. I've got to ask you, though, Wal-Mart, wasn't there a leak or something, their numbers -- numbers that they forecast for the holiday season came out or something like that?
ELAM: Their -- what it was is one of their ads, actually, was kind of leaked out so that we have an idea of what is actually going to happen on Black Friday.
So the promotion is going to be on flat screen TVs. The official circular isn't due out until next week. Plasma and LTD TVs will be among the door-buster items, those with reduced prices on the Monday -- or I should say on the morning of Black Friday. So obviously people will be looking out for that.
Laptops, iPods, digital cameras are also among the featured items leaked to the Web. Wal-Mart began the celebrations a bit early this year, cutting prices on 15,000 products in October, before Halloween. It's hard to think about Halloween when it's still -- I mean, hard to think about Christmas when it's still warm outside. So you know, I think what...
LEMON: Halloween? What's she talking about? ELAM: I know. Like I think it's weird when you walk into a store and there's Christmas trees and you haven't even gotten your pumpkin yet.
LEMON: I know, I know.
ELAM: I'm kind of old school that way.
LEMON: All right.
LEMON: OK. If you want, you know, one of those TVs, I'll take that for Christmas. If you have...
ELAM: You're going to get me one of those, Don?
LEMON: No, you can get me one.
ELAM: Oh, honey, that's so sweet.
LEMON: I'm ending this right now. Kill her mike.
OK. Thank you, Steph.
PHILLIPS: Prosecutors load their case against O.J. Simpson. They're trying to bring him to trial, and they're hoping his co- defendants will help. We're going to get some insight from a legal eagle.
LEMON: Plastic surgery, much more than skin deep. Even the simplest procedures can get pretty complicated pretty quickly. You have questions? We'll find answers.
LEMON: All right. Prosecutors in Vegas are trying to bring O.J. Simpson to trial on armed robbery charges. You're looking at live pictures now of that hearing from Las Vegas. And they're hoping his co-defendants will help them.
You're seeing live pictures, as I said, from the courtroom where Simpson's preliminary hearing is in day three and where one co- defendant has just given what could be damaging testimony.
What does this mean for the case? Let's bring in now civil rights attorney Avery Friedman for some insight.
I'm always happy to have your insight, because it's always really good, Avery.
AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Don, actually, the last time we did this you sounded like a law professor. LEMON: Well, you know, studying up, knowing my stuff. So, listen. You said he made some damaging testimony there. What could this all mean? Tell me about that damaging testimony.
FRIEDMAN: Damaging is an understatement, Don. I mean, Walt Alexander isn't some stranger here. This is O.J.'s BFF, this is his golfing buddy. What we now see is critical testimony to meet a very low threshold. Remember the rules here. O.J. Simpson as far as the constitution is concerned, is as innocent as a newborn baby right now. We're at a preliminary hearing, all Judge Joe Bonaventure has to decide is the threshold issue, is there probable cause to send it to trial? And the prosecution is overloading on this. And that's what Walt Alexander's testimony is really done. It's put it over the top.
LEMON: OK, I'm going to drive the point home because Avery you were talking about he's supposed to be his BFF, his best friend forever and then this testimony, he talks about what happened before they were supposed to go in, and then right before they went in, and this is probably the part you said is more than damaging. Let's take a listen, we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTER ALEXANDER, ALLEGED ACCOMPLICE: Going into the hotel I thought we were just going to get Mr. Simpson's things that belonged to him, but after what had happened, happened and I'm walking out of the room I'm realizing that a robbery had taken place and I'm really feeling as if, man, you know, you're in some trouble, dude.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You're in some trouble, dude. Seriously, that's what he said. So he knows.
FRIEDMAN: Hey, everybody knows. You know what will be coming up is C.J. Stewart who you're not going to hear from because he's still charged. He along with Charlie Ehrlicher, the three defendants going to trial. But all the stuff, you know O.J. didn't take the stuff. It went over to C.J. Stewart's house.
LEMON: OK, let me tell, let's get to this because I want to get everything in there. When we talked about Charles Cashmore and then Michael McClinton today making plea deals, how does this play into all of this? Help or hurt O.J. Simpson?
FRIEDMAN: Well, it is a terrible development for O.J. but not an unsurprising one. Because Michael McClinton and Charles Cashmore, who is the local bartender in this case, really weren't able to fight this thing out and so if I'm defending this case, Don, I'm going to say look. These guys sold out to save their necks, they're avoiding, they're trying to avoid a prison sentence and therefore they're going to be liars to support the prosecution against O.J.
LEMON: OK, Avery, I've got 30 seconds left. And I heard this myself. Can you watch my back? O.J. Simpson supposedly said to Walter Alexander and then he said can you bring some heat? Then afterwards he didn't want the heat to show, then he said, just show it a little bit, according to this testimony. That's pretty damming.
FRIEDMAN: Just a little bit of heat, just a little bit of gun power there. He's in a world of trouble right now.
LEMON: Yeah, Avery, always a pleasure. You're going to hang around and join us again?
FRIEDMAN: I'm going to stick with you Don, OK.
LEMON: All right stick with us, because you really have some good information. Hey, thank you, sir. See you in a bit.
PHILLIPS: Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue is going straight to the top. He teamed up with lawmakers, ministers and supporters here in Atlanta last hour to pray for rain. As you may know, much of the southeast is in the grip of a historic drought. Still, not everyone's happy with the appeal to a higher power thought. Protestors argue the governor's prayer service violates the separation of church and state. There may be a silver lining in Georgia's drought woes though. Is rain in the forecast?
PHILLIPS: Sudden untimely and under intense scrutiny, we're talking about the death of Donda West, mother of hip-hop superstar Kanye West has raised all kinds of questions, most of which center on potential complications from cosmetic surgery. We're hoping for some answers from an autopsy. It is planned for tomorrow, we found that out through Brooke Anderson.
But let's bring in our medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen. We still don't know exactly what happened to Donda West but it got us thinking about plastic surgery and all the complications. We're receiving e-mails from viewers talking about a lot of these procedures are done in small offices and if something goes wrong, they don't have the type of life support that you need. So it's risky business.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It is risky business. That's one of the things and I'll talk about that in a minute. That you want to make sure that you're going to a facility that can handle a disaster because you know what, disasters sometimes do happen with plastic surgery because, I know this is shocking to some people, it's surgery.
You're not going in to get your nails done. You're getting something serious done. You can have problems with anesthesia, you can get an infection, you can get blood clots. There is no really good study about how often someone dies from getting a cosmetic procedure. Some say its three deaths out of every 100,000 procedures. Some say 20. But you know what Kyra, the FDA says that some studies show as many as 100 people will die for every 100,000 procedures. That's a lot.
PHILLIPS: And why is that? Is it because the operations so many times don't happen in am actual hospital? They are in the office and there's less equipment, less support? COHEN: You know what, there are a couple of different issues here. There are a couple of different things that happen. First of all, people have to remember, medical errors happen. I'm not talking about Donda West's situation, because we don't know what happened there. But medical errors happen. Sometimes people give wrong dosages of medicine. That happens and in a cosmetic procedure it can happen, too.
What happened in this situation, there was something interesting which is that a plastic surgeon in California came forward and said that Dr. West had come to him seeking treatment and that he advised her not to do it right away. Let's take a listen to what this surgeon had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. ANDRE ABOLIAN, COSMETIC SURGEON: She was interested in some cosmetic procedures and we had discussed that in order for her go through with the procedures which she was a good candidate for. She needed what's called a medical clearance, which is just about anybody over the age of 40 is required to have.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
COHEN: All right, well let's go over some of the things you need to think about before having plastic surgery. First of all, you need a full evaluation like that doctor was talking about. You need to make sure that your doctor knows everything. Also, make sure the surgeon is board certified.
And also, like Kyra and I were just talking about, if it's not in a hospital, make sure that facility is accredited and licensed because you don't know what can go wrong. Do they have all of the necessary drug and apparatus to help you if something is going to go wrong?
PHILLIPS: Elizabeth Cohen, appreciate it.
LEMON: Seeking answers in the death of one woman and the disappearance of another. Two women with a common bond, their husband. Runs a pathologist, Dr. Cyril Wecht tries to help us untangle this mystery.
LEMON: Another change of plans for Benazir Bhutto and a dramatic change of heart. The Pakistani opposition leader and former prime minister had wanted to lead a protest march to Islamabad. But for the second time in two weeks she found herself surrounded by police and unable to leave her house. That must have been the last straw.
In an interview with CNN, Bhutto called President Pervez Musharraf to give up power entirely. Before she just insisted he give up his military post and even then she was trying to work out a power sharing deal. At this point Bhutto says there is a quote, "Total trust deficit." Amid the rumblings that the government is planning to deport her, Bhutto says she is in the dark about her fate. CNN's Zain Verjee has more on where Bhutto stands.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Benazir Bhutto tried to hold a rally for the second time and for the second time the masses have not come out onto the streets. She is being held under house arrest in her home a few blocks down that way. She's been ringed by hundreds of police and security forces like these heavily armed. According to police sources about 3,500 of her supporters have been arrested.
As this clamp down goes on Benazir Bhutto's rhetoric has also hardened. She says that General Musharraf should resign as army chief and he should no longer be president even. CNN has also learned that deputy secretary of state John Negroponte will be in Pakistan al little later this week. He was actually already scheduled to be here, but obviously the current situation is precarious, the U.S. is concerned and this is going to be top of his agenda.
Zain Verjee, CNN, Lahore.
(END OF VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, officials are used to being grilled on TV, but getting buzzed, not so much. We've got the story of Condoleezza Rice and the fly.
LEMON: Buried almost four years ago, exhumed today, Kathleen Savio, her grave opened, her case reopened after another woman in suburban Chicago disappeared. One common denominator the man those two women married, it's Drew Peterson. Today, a friend recalled Peterson's reaction the day Savio was found dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE CARCERANO, DREW PETERSON'S FRIEND: He came after her best friend came into the bathroom, I yelled out her name a couple times. She started screaming. That's when Drew came running up the stairs right into the bathroom. Upon looking at her he did check her pulse, then started screaming out, what am I going to tell my kids.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Was her death accidental as he claims or was foul play involved as some suspect? Dr. Cyril Wecht, a forensic pathologist who has consulted in hundreds of criminal cases, brings his insight to the NEWSROOM. You heard that doctor. Now I'm talking to you just before this, just before we went on the air and you said, "Don't think they're going to get anything out of it. Why do we need to even do this any way? Why do they need to exhume the body if you don't think anything is going to come of it?
DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: I answered that realistically as a forensic pathologist. A body dead for 3 1/2 years and no definitive anatomic cause of death found in autopsy back at that time, I am assuming, I hope safely and comfortably, that no fractures were found of the skull, that the neck organs were examined, no fractures were found of the thyroid or (INAUDIBLE) cartilages, or the hyoid (ph) bone, a small u-shaped bone.
LEMON: You meant four years ago when it was originally done.
WECHT: When it was originally done. Now if you do not have those things, then it's unlikely that you're going to find a cause of death. Drowning in a freshly recovered body is a diagnosis that is made by exclusion. You rule out everything. There are findings that are consistent with and suggestive of drowning but are not scientifically definitive like a myocardioinfarktion (ph).
LEMON: So doctor, before you rule out drowning, when you're investigating the death of anyone by accidental drowning, do you as a matter of fact you rule out everything else and then that of course tells you that it's drowning? Is that what you're saying?
LEMON: All of these things should have been done.
WECHT: Well yes. Now you have a body of a 40-year-old woman, no heart disease, no significant known medical condition, no alcohol, no drugs, and here's something else that I've not heard anybody comment upon. She's found in the tub, not face down. Not upside down. She's in the tub. Well, even assuming that there was water, the water, if it had come up over her head, over her mouth, would have overflowed the top of the tub. So what are you saying doctor?
WECHT: What I'm saying is that somebody most likely got away with foul play back in March of '04. That's what I'm saying.
LEMON: OK, so you're not saying necessarily that it's Mr. Peterson.
WECHT: I don't know who was there. I'm not -- I'm hedging because I'm not privy to who was in the house and so on. I may have personal thoughts but I've got to know those things. Let the detectives find that out. That was part of what should have been done at that time, tied in then, with the medical legal forensic (INAUDIBLE) investigation.
LEMON: So had you been doing it, you would have said something is fishy about this because the tub didn't overflow and she was found face up.
WECHT: That's right. The laceration on the scalp, other injuries on the body. How do you drown accidentally in a small tub, how?
LEMON: Did somebody not do their job back then?
WECHT: That's correct. LEMON: That is correct. OK.
LEMON: I want to talk to you about someone who has talked about the injuries, a friend of actually of Mrs. Savio. I want to play that and then I want you to talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN DOMAN, SISTER OF KATHLEEN SAVIO: There was a lot of bruising on her, her ankles, her arms, cuts, scratches. So, I think that they will be looking at these again, very, very closely. And we are very happy that they are doing that.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK, that was a sister.
WECHT: The problem with that is that scratches and abrasions and bruises are not going to be seen on tissue that has been embalmed and buried for three and a half years. That's what I meant when we spoke before about the autopsy not yielding anything in terms of soft tissue injuries. But that raises another flag for me on the ankle, hey, what happens when you grab somebody by the ankles and you pull them down and they are struggling. You get the picture, you get the idea.
LEMON: I get it. Doctor, where were you a couple of years ago. This is the most definitive information, at least the information that sort of could describe what's happened. I think you're the first person I have ever heard in this case to say something like this. OK, so if you don't think they are going to get anything from it, you said they can't proceed without it how do you see this having any influence on Stacy Peterson's death and on Officer Peterson possibly being charged in this?
WECHT: It is ...
LEMON: I'm sorry, missing, I should say, she has not died but missing, even though her family thinks it's grim right now.
WECHT: Well, with regard to the missing fourth wife, I can't tell you about that although, again, that comes back to police work and you know, sometimes deals are made, where's the body, I'm involved in a case now from a state not too far from yours where that kind of arrangement was made and so on. That's not for me to get into.
But this autopsy, this exhumation is a prerequisite. It is a (INAUDIBLE) to a part of a proper procedure investigatively and ultimately with trial. You cannot have a forensic pathologist sitting on the stand, testifying in a homicide case who has not had an opportunity to examine the body. So, you do this even though it is highly unlikely that you will find anything of a definitive nature. You do it to rule out things and you do it strategically and as a matter of pretrial tactics. It must be done and I commend them for doing it.
LEMON: Dr. Cyril Wecht, very well explained. Thank you sir.
WECHT: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Two troubled teens linked by YouTube. Police in Finland are examining the computer of Peka Erik (INAUDIBLE), the 18- year-old who opened fire killing six classmates, a nurse and a school principal near (INAUDIBLE) last week before killing himself. He traded e-mails, videos, web postings and chatted online about the Columbine massacre with 14-year-old Dillon Cossey, of suburban Philadelphia.
Cossey was arrested last month with a cache of weapons and admitted plotting an attack on his school. Cossey's attorney said that he never shared plans for school attacks with (INAUDIBLE) on the video sharing site. Now Finnish police are holding a news conference this afternoon, it's scheduled to begin at 3:30 p.m. eastern. We're monitoring it.
A wake-up call for Rhode Island police. One department now reviewing its policies for handling prisoners. A woman managed to smuggle a loaded gun like this one into her jail cell. Police in Woonsocket say that the prisoner had a pat down before her arrest but they apparently missed the gun. At some point, police say the inmate flushed the bullets and the clip down the toilet. The gun was too big, it slipped out of her pants the next day while she was heading to court on drug charges.
LEMON: Officials are used to being grilled on television. But getting buzzed? Not so much. We've got the story of Condoleezza Rice and the fly.
PHILLIPS: Time to see what's clicking with all you CNN dotcomers today. Some of our top stories this hour, the exhumation and second autopsy of Kathleen Savio. She's the third wife of police officer Drew Peterson, now a suspect in his fourth wife's disappearance. Savio's case has been reopened due to the mysterious circumstances surrounding her death.
An Iowa college student says she is a bit more pessimistic about politics after a Hillary Clinton staffer gave her a specific question to ask at a campaign event. The Clinton camp says this wasn't OK and won't happen again.
An autopsy will be done tomorrow on Donda West, the mother of hip hop star Kanye West, she's believed to have died as a result of cosmetic surgery over the weekend.
LEMON: This is one of the best moments on television this weekend. I saw it happen live. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice makes political buzz of a different kind and she's not alone.
CNN's Jeanne Moos has the story. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Condoleezza Rice is used to speaking on the fly, but this time the fly was on her as she was speaking.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: This is about the Pakistani people. We got a failed state in Afghanistan, despite the difficulties that they're going through right now. The imposition of a state of emergency.
MOOS: Host George Stephanopoulos should've imposed a state of emergency.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm sorry about that fly.
RICE: Yeah, me too, sorry about that. We seem to have a visitor.
MOOS: This 14 1/2 minute interview on "This Week" must have seemed like a year to Condi.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Many democrats out of the presidential campaign ...
RICE: Sorry George, I have to get rid of my little friend here.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You have to tell the president to do something about those mosquitoes down in Crawford.
MOOS: The bugs don't take a vacation even when the president does. At least the secretary of state fought off her tormentor. Back in August, Senator Christopher Dodd seemed unaware that the fly nestled in his snow white hair during an Iowa debate. Who won the debate? As one smart aleck posted, I'd say Dodd's fly won. A month later, another fly attack, this time on Senator Biden. For more than eight minutes, it perched on Biden's head. Give that fly a hand. Or maybe an arm. Hillary's arm. That's where it ended up next.
CLINTON: That's the way to start.
MOOS: What's a fly got to do to get a little attention here?
BILL RICHARDSON: Increase is -- I got this fly around me.
MOOS: John Edwards helped swat while Hillary quipped that the fly was a Republican. Then the one pestering Condi must have been a Democrat.
RICE: Nobody would even think of trying to hide.
MOOS: Maybe they should have done what they did at the baseball playoffs when (INAUDIBLE) attacked. Spray down the pitcher. At least Condi didn't swallow the fly like this memory expert did. That's a memory the memory expert won't forget.
STEPHANOPOLOUS: Boy, that is one persistent mosquito.
CONDI: Actually, George, just to be fair, it's a fly.
MOOS: Wouldn't want to alienate the fly vote. By the way, the fly on the secretary of state seemed to be especially attracted to her microphone. So maybe the fly had a comment. Or maybe he was just telling the press, buzz off.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END OF VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: That was pretty funny. She handled it well, so did George Stephanopoulos. All right, so next hour of the CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.
You're in some trouble dude. A belated realization from a golfing buddy of O.J. Simpson, repeated on the witness stand at Simpson's pretrial hearing in Vegas. We're live with that damaging testimony.
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