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Ballot Bowl '08 - Third Hour

Aired February 02, 2008 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DANA BASH, CNN, CORRESPONDENT: It sure was an interesting strategy. He's going to be in three southern states today, the three states that you just talked about - Tennessee, Alabama and also Georgia before he heads up north to try to campaign in Mitt Romney's own backyard. He's going to be campaigning up in Massachusetts tonight and tomorrow morning. And in fact, he has already announced that he's got the endorsement of former Massachusetts governor Paul Saluti. We already have know that he's got the endorsement of another former Massachusetts governor Jane Swift.
So, that is sort of, you know, if not so subtle, in your face move by the McCain campaign. They actually think, they say, they are certainly boasting a lot of confidence lately. But they say, they say they can actually win in the states of Massachusetts right now. And that is perhaps from some internal polling numbers that they've seen or they've seen from some of their friends, but they're really going to try to make a show for it in Massachusetts. If they want to try to stop Mitt Romney, certainly beating him in the state he served as governor is one way to do it.

But you know, in terms of what he has been doing today, John, the message that we have heard from him, as we hear from a lot of these candidates at this point, you hear the same stump speech over and over again. But he is trying to have kind of a two-for in his stump speech, talking about the economy, an issue that is dominant and an issue that perhaps Mitt Romney has been trying to get at him on, but also the issue that he thinks is his strong suit, and that is national security and from his perspective, the fact that he thinks he would be the best commander in chief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So Senator Clinton and Senator Obama say they want a date for withdrawal. they want to wave the white flag of surrender. I will never surrender. I will never surrender to Al Qaeda, my friends. We will never surrender to Al Qaeda. We won't do it. We won't do it.

You might remember last April, Senator Harry Reid, the majority of the United States Senate stood on the floor of the Senate and said the war was lost. Well, my friends if we lost, who won? We didn't lose. We didn't lose. And my friends, we are succeeding. There's parts of Baghdad, there are most parts of Iraq that are now safe and secure. On New Year's Eve, thousands of Iraqis turned out and came out in the streets of Baghdad on New Year's Eve to celebrate the New Year, something they hadn't been able to do for years. But my friends, this is a long and hard and tough struggle. And I want to talk to you just for a minute about our veterans, if I could. Because our veterans are coming back, and it's a difficult and hard war. And they need the care of the VA. They need our care and our love. I'd like to tell you that they're receiving all the care that they need and deserve, and you know and I know that's not the case. But I can tell you my commitment to care for our veterans. Could I ask our veterans to raise their hands, those of us who are in our audience today? Thank you, thank you very much and god bless you. Thank you for serving. Thank you for serving. Thank you for serving. Thank you for serving our country. Thank you.

Because of our veterans, I carry around with me all the time this quote which was made by George Washington in 1789. In 1789, George Washington said, and I "the willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war no matter how justified shall be directly proportional to how they perceive the veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated by their nation." My friends, George Washington was right in 1789.

So what's the situation? My friends, there's going to be a lot of PTSD out of this war. Everybody knows that. And there's terrible wounds inflicted by these IEDs, these explosive devices that inflict such grievous wounds. But I'm happy to tell you, we are able to save more lives and get the wounded from the battle field to the medical care and, therefore, we're saving many more lives and I'm proud of that. But we're going to have to expand that part of the Veterans Administration healthcare facilities.

But my friends, there's another problem in our veterans, in brave veterans here will tell you. You know what? They're sick and tired of driving for an hour or two hours and getting to a VA facility when they've got a routine healthcare need and wait in line to wait in line and get an appointment to get an appointment. I want to tell you what I'm going to do for our veterans. If you got a routine healthcare need, I'll give you a plastic card. You take that card to any doctor or healthcare provider of your choice and get the care that you need. You don't have to stand in line to stand in line.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That's Senator John McCain earlier today in Alabama appealing to veterans, a very important constituency for somebody who is, of course, himself a veteran, a very well known war hero talking to people as one of them. This is a constituency that very much helped him in the state of Florida with his win there. And he's hoping to sort of repeat that in some of these important states in the south where he's campaigning today here in Tennessee and over where you are in Alabama, John.

JOHN KING, CNN, CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Dana Bash in Nashville, Tennessee. Dana, standby we want to get back to you in just a moment. But first though, we just listened to Senator John McCain. One of the other candidates for president, Mitt Romney is off the trail today. He is not campaigning because he is attending funeral services in Salt Lake City, Utah for the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints Gordon Hinckley. Governor Romney off the trail to attend the funeral. Although he did attend, did conduct some satellite interviews earlier this morning. Interviews with news station in some of the key super Tuesday states. One of those states is Colorado. We want to give you a little sample of Governor Romney campaigning in Colorado last night.

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I can't possibly forecast at this stage what the kind of numbers I'll have coming out of Tuesday will be. I'm hoping to do very well. There are a number of states we think we can pick up. There are other states we think are real long shots. There are a number of states where I'm competitive. And we're going to be fighting in a lot of states, advertising in some states. Of course, I've got the family fanned out across the country. Everybody today is off in a different state. I expect to do well. But you know at this stage, I expect to keep on battling and get the nomination. I'm not going to forecast from anything other than success.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Governor Huckabee said something (inaudible) reach political puberty because of so many position changes. I want to get your comment on that. Also, what role do you think money has played in this election? (inaudible)

ROMNEY: First of all, Governor Huckabee is always good for good chuckle. That's another good chuckle. I think the presidency is about something very serious. While there's occasionally a time of natural humor, I think the presidency is more serious than that comment suggests. With regards to the role of money in the campaign, from my standpoint, it was important enough for me to make my own investment in the campaign along with raising money from other people. And I was not somebody who was well known in the country.

Senator McCain and Mayor Giuliani, Fred Thompson began with extraordinary name recognition and sound reputation. I had to catch up. That meant I had to raise a lot of money and I had to spend some of my own money to catch up to where they were. There was a time in my campaign when my campaign manager said to me, you know, these guys have spent the last 30 years of their life building their name reputation, their name recognition rather and reputation. And if you're going to compete with them, you're going to have to take something of what you've built over the last 30 years and invested in your campaign. And she was right, I made that decision and we therefore built up your point where I'm not well recognized and I'm going to get evaluated, if you will, on a level basis with the other guys.

Surely other people have followed different courses. But you have to play with the hand you're dealt. And I was dealt a hand of coming from a state that was not known as being a republican state. A guy that was not terribly well known. And it meant that I had to raise more money and invest more money than did the other guys to get a to a point where I could be competitive. But in the final analysis, the person who wins will not necessarily be the person who had the most money at the end of the race or spent the most in the race. It will come down, I believe, to their vision for the future of America, their reputation, their organization. But at this stage, it's really narrowed down, I think, to a couple of guys. With all respect to Governor Huckabee and to Ron Paul, they're fine folks but I think it's really narrowed down to two and we'll get a chance to be seen and hopefully I'll win this one.

BASH: That's former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney speaking yesterday in the state of Colorado. He's off the campaign trail today. He is in Utah paying respects at the funeral of the Mormon President Gordon Hinckley. There you heard yesterday former governor of Massachusetts Mitt Romney talking about his chances and really talking strategy about the fact that he really wouldn't say and won't say what his chances are on February 5th. Quite interesting and quite different from the optimistic tone that he has taken throughout this campaign, perhaps telling about where he thinks this is going on February 5th, but also talking about why he has decided to spend so much of his personal fortune on this campaign. We just got some information, some financial information about the fact that he just in the last quarter - the last quarter of last year spent about $18 million of his own money. That adds up to $35 million out of his own pocket to put forward his race for presidency. So this is going to be a big question about how much more money Mitt Romney is going to be willing to spend in the days and weeks to come. We're going to have a lot more of "Ballot Bowl" right after this. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CINDY CROWLEY, CNN, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Welcome back to CNN's "Ballot Bowl '08" where we give you a chance to see and hear these candidates as we see and hear them as they race toward super Tuesday with more than 20 states involved, a national primary, if you will. Now, one of the problems with super Tuesday, of course, is so many states and so little time. Right now, Barack Obama is heading toward Minneapolis, but earlier this morning he was at Boise state talking to a crowd there bringing up George Bush and Dick Cheney who you may remember has been linked with Barack Obama to a heritage way back. Here's a little bit of Obama on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Dick Cheney will not be on the ballot. That was really embarrassing when that news came out. You know, when they do these genealogical surveys you're hoping that, you know, you're related to somebody cool, like Paul Revere or Willy Maze or somebody. Dick Cheney, that's a let-down. Anyway, his name will not be on the ballot. So the era of Scooter Libby Justice and Brownie incompetence and Karl Rove politics will finally be over next year.

But that's not the only reason that you're here. You know, it's easy to be against something. But what I think Americans are looking for, they want to be for something. They want to feel as if -- they want to feel as if we can still come together and solve our problems. And the American people, they know that there are problems out there. They see them in their own lives every day. I know, because I've been in this conversation with the American people for the last year. And everywhere I go, the stories are of struggle and stories of hardship. Everywhere I go I meet folks who have worked in a factory for 20 years, putting their heart and soul and the building up profits, creating a brand and suddenly the job gets shipped overseas, and the rug is pulled out from under them. And they're trying to figure out how they're going to survive on a $7.00 an hour job at the local fast food joint.

All across the country, I meet retirees who see their former companies go into bankruptcy, shed their pensions, even as the CEO is getting a bonus or a golden parachute for himself. All across the country I meet teachers who are working second jobs just to make ends meet. And those same teachers are digging into their own pockets to buy school supplies for their classroom because the schools are underfunded. All across the country I meet young people who've got the grades, and the desire, the will, to get a college education, but just don't have the money. Some of them are borrowing, $20, $30, $40, $50,000 to try to get an education. They end up with a mortgage before they even graduate from college.

All across the country I meet veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan who are proud of their service, and rightfully so. Because they have done everything that has been asked of them. They have performed magnificently on behalf of this country. But those veterans, they're still thinking about those that they left behind, and they question the wisdom of a mission that has cost us so dearly in blood and treasure and does not seem to have made us more safe. And sometimes I meet homeless and disabled veterans who ask themselves how it is that this country could have forgotten their service. And sometimes in rope lines afterwards I'll hug mothers who weep silently over the memories of a fallen son.

And all across America I meet people, young and old, all of them patriots, all of them who love their country, who are embarrassed about Guantanamo and embarrass about Abu Ghraib. And don't understand how it is that we have seen our civil liberties undermined over the last several years and don't know why we're still having an argument about whether or not the United States tortures or not. These people love this country. And they want their cherishing values and ideals restored. That's what I've been hearing from the American people all across the country.

And what I have said to them is that, if you are ready for change, that we can change this country. If you are ready for change, we can go ahead and tell the lobbyists that their days of setting the agenda in Washington are over. They have not funded my campaign. They will not run my White House and they will not drown out the voice of the American people when I'm president of the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: Barack Obama at Boise State in, of course, Boise, Idaho. We want to bring in our Suzanne Malveaux who is in Minneapolis. That's where Obama is headed. You know, Suzanne, we just earlier heard from Hillary Clinton who talked about that what people needed was a president who didn't bring just hope, but also help. We all know that is aimed at Barack Obama. I'm wondering if more recently he's kind of added more issues to his standard speech in order to kind of combat that Hillary Clinton suggestion that he's just not ready for the job and all he's offering is high-minded rhetoric.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN, CORRESPONDENT: One of the things that he's really going to emphasize is judgment. It's something that he's been talking about before but particularly important for this audience. It is a big anti-war, anti-Iraq war event that's there, strong democratic base who just got the endorsement of moveon.org. He's going to be talking about that, highlighting that this is what makes gives him experience. Experience in the sense that he has better judgment than Hillary Clinton. That is something that in all likelihood will ring in a way that people will be very receptive to his message considering there's so many people here who are against the war and who are looking for him for that kind of cross-over appeal. The republicans, the independents. This is a place that not only has a strong democratic base, but, as you know, it's the place where they elected their governor, a former pro wrestler, Jesse Ventura. Obviously this is a state where people are open and willing to look at all sides. Candy.

CROWLEY: Our Suzanne Malveaux in Minneapolis where they are awaiting Barack Obama. As you can see, they get started very early, long before the candidate actually arrives. We're going to have more from Senator Hillary Clinton still here in California as "Ballot Bowl '08" continues right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CROWLEY: Welcome back to CNN's "Ballot Bowl'08" where we bring you these candidates, republican and democratic, unfiltered, the way we see them. I'm at the Cal State campus here in Los Angeles where Hillary Clinton has just wrapped up a rally. We want to play you a portion of that. But a little backdrop for this sound. That is that "No child left behind," which is a bill passed into law with the help of Senator Ted Kennedy was aimed at improving standards in schools and holding schools accountable for what they learn. It is wildly unpopular in the democratic party which counts as part of its base, the teachers' union. The basic complaint is that "no child left behind" is underfunded and prompts teachers to teach to test. So, it is a buzzword in the democratic party. No child left behind. Here is a little bit of Hillary Clinton on that subject.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My opponents will not commit to universal healthcare. I do not believe - I do not believe we should nominate any democrat who will not proudly stand here today, tomorrow and the next day and say universal healthcare is the goal. You know, in the America I see, the abusive lending practices that have put so many people's homes at risk would never have been permitted in the first place. Those who have trade on first generation Americans, on the elderly, on those who are desperate to have a home, or like the couple that I met earlier today in Engelwood who had to mortgage their home to get a second mortgage to send their daughter to college and had discovered then that the adjustable rate mortgage kept going up. And they're worried now about how they'll send their next daughter to college. In the America I see over that horizon that will begin on January 20th, 2009, we will have a housing policy that has affordable housing again. We will protect homeowners from unscrupulous mortgage lenders and brokers. We will have a moratorium on home foreclosures so we can help people stay in their homes, not lose their homes. And we will freeze the interest rates so they don't keep going up throwing more and more Californians and Americans out on the streets because a home is the most important source of wealth for most of us, isn't it? Instead of turning a blind eye, we should be rolling up our sleeves to keep people in their homes. And I will do everything possible as a senator and then as president to make sure we stop the mortgage crisis before more people are hurt.

And in the America I see, we will help families prepare their own children for school starting early, and we'll have universal pre- kindergarten for 4-year-olds so they can be better prepared to go to school. And we will end the unfunded mandate known as "no child left behind."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CROWLEY: So Senator Hillary Clinton just a little while ago here at Cal State in Los Angeles. Coming up after the break, we will hear from Mike Huckabee struggling to stay in this republican race. Again, right after this race as CNN's "Ballot Bowl '08" continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Welcome back to this special edition of the CNN BALLOT BOWL, BALLOT BOWL '08. I'm John King reporting live from in Birmingham, Alabama. Senator John McCain was just here in the past hour, one of the candidates for president out campaigning across the country in advance of what is essentially a national primary on Super Tuesday.

Contests from New York in the East all the way over to California in the West, Alaska as well, and in far away American Samoa. Contests in more than 20 states and American Samoa. It could be decisive and certainly will be critical in both the Democratic and the Republican nomination fights.

One of the key questions on the Republican side is, can the former Arkansas governor, Mike Huckabee, revive his campaign? Remember he was the big surprise just a month ago when he won the Iowa Caucuses. He has struggled since though. Governor Romney winning in Michigan, Senator McCain winning in New Hampshire and in South Carolina, narrowly beating Governor Huckabee.

Senator McCain, after his win in Florida, now believes he can take command of the race. But Governor Huckabee trying to reassert himself and focusing on states in his native South, Arkansas, his home state, votes on Tuesday, Georgia, and here in Alabama. Let's listen to Governor Huckabee just a short time ago speaking at a church in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president will make decisions that will affect the lives of several generations away, Supreme Court appointments, the direction of policy in this country, what kind of security we'll have at our borders, internally, around the world, whether or not the president is really going to try to tackle the problem of a $9 trillion debt that's on the future of this country which means that a lot of these students here in the front are getting saddled not with a wonderful, wonderful infrastructure of a nation, they're getting saddled with $9 trillion of debt that has been spent by a run-away Congress.

One thing that would lead me to believe is that if Congress hasn't been able to curtail their spending habits, and Washington is completely out of control on its addiction to spending, it doesn't make sense that somebody would be sent to the White House who has a got Washington address. And that's why I believe that somebody who has balanced a budget every one of the 10 1/2 years he was a governor makes a whole lot more sense if we're going to get it done.

(APPLAUSE)

HUCKABEE: The presidency is not just a tough job, and it certainly is that. The presidency is a sacred trust. You are the people who are going to hire the next president. And, by the way, I would really appreciate it if you would make sure the national media doesn't get to pick the president instead of you, because they won't pick the right one.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

HUCKABEE: For months they have been telling you who the frontrunners are. They have been putting on the screen who it is that's even in the contention. My name and face wasn't usually on that screen. And one day it just started happening that despite their best attempts to keep me off the stage, people like you put me on it.

And the fact is, even now there are those who want everything in the world to try to make sure that they get to pick the president. But that's not their job. That's yours. The job of being president is tough enough, but it's not just the job. It is beyond that, a sacred trust.

And what people really are electing is not just a person who can manage the country and lead. That is important. But you want a president you can trust. It doesn't mean a president you'll agree with all the time, because my wife and I have been married going on 34 years, and we don't agree all the time. I'm often wrong, as she points out.

(LAUGHTER)

HUCKABEE: And by the way, I wish she could be here with me today. But she is in Alaska campaigning today, because their primary is also on Tuesday. And so we came to AL and she went to AK. I think she really got turned around because it's a long way from Alaska to Alabama. (LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Governor Mike Huckabee there in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. If anything, we do know he knows his postal codes. His wife Janet up campaigning in Alaska, one of the Super Tuesday states. Mike Huckabee here in Alabama. I want to bring in now our Dana Bash. She is in TN, that would be Tennessee, another one of the Super Tuesday states.

And, Dana, as you listen to Governor Huckabee, a bit of frustration there. He believes he's being pushed aside in some of the national media coverage as Senator McCain has had a couple of victories in a row, and Governor Romney has invested more of his own money trying to prove that he is the conservative alternative. But without a doubt, Governor Huckabee, even though he has struggled of late in terms of victories, remains a factor in this race.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: A big factor in this race because of the fact that he is basically competing for the same kinds of votes as Mitt Romney. And if you ask really anybody inside the Romney campaign or if you listen to what his surrogates are saying, that is their biggest concern as they try to execute their strategy for blunting John McCain's momentum.

And that is the way they're trying to do that is by appealing to conservatives, by becoming the alternative, the conservative alternative to John McCain. And Mike Huckabee, you know, is somebody who has shown that he can appeal to those social conservatives in the state of Iowa, obviously, where he won, even in states he didn't win, in Florida and South Carolina, that is very much his base.

And you know, it is interesting, John, we've seen this kind of odd, even curious alliance with Mike Huckabee and John McCain. You know that Mitt Romney is trying to say that John McCain simply is not conservative enough, even calling him a liberal. Well, yesterday Mike Huckabee said, well, I don't think that John McCain is a liberal. He said, actually, it's absurd to say something like that.

So you almost get the sense that Mike Huckabee understands what his role is and could be in maybe even allowing John McCain to have the nomination. And it seems as though he is trying in his own way to help John McCain do that.

KING: And, Dana, you mentioned John McCain. (INAUDIBLE) conversation (INAUDIBLE) you say, Governor Huckabee says he's the conservative, Governor Romney is trying to say he's the conservative. Here is John McCain who has the momentum in the race, could take command of the race on Super Tuesday, and yet at every stop he gets -- he is tended to -- asked by local media and sometimes by us in the national media, why do people think you're not conservative enough? Explain how Senator McCain is trying to answer that question as he tries to take control of the race.

BASH: He's trying to answer the question by saying, look at the company that I keep. He's trying to lock up as many endorsements and supporters from the well-known, established conservative movement. You've seen that over the past couple of days. You've seen Governor Rick Perry of Texas come out for him. You've seen former Senator Don Nickles of Oklahoma. You've seen Ted Olson, who was the president's solicitor general. These are names that are not known very well to the national constituency, if you will.

But if you are a core conservative, you're trying to figure out whether or not you really believe that John McCain is one of you, you hear these names and you understand that they are sort of like you -- like them in terms of understanding and feeling the idea of being a conservative.

So that is why John McCain is really trying to get that out there. He is trying very aggressively to do that in public. You would think that he would be trying to do that in private as well. I asked him today if he is actually making phone calls, if he's reaching out to conservatives, people he knows he needs to mend fences with, particularly on the national level back in Washington. He said he's not doing that, which is actually a bit surprising.

But he is going to do something quite significant in his campaign, let it be known. And that is, after Super Tuesday, the day after, he's going to go backs to Washington and he is going to speak to a convention called CPAC, it's the Conservative Political Action Committee. That is basically a mecca for conservatives. They have a very big convention every single year. John McCain did not go to that.

He declined to go to that last year. His campaign understands that was a big mistake. By saying he is going to go and do that, that is one very important way, very crucial way he's trying to reach out to that constituency, that community that he really, really needs at this point as he's running in the primaries and caucuses. And of course, sort of big picture, if he does get the nomination, in order to, as he says over and over again, unify the Republican Party -- John.

KING: Dana Bash for us in Nashville, Tennessee. And as she knows, that CPAC, Conservative Political Action Committee appearance by Senator McCain, come the morning after Super Tuesday, he hopes to walk into that meeting in command of the Republican race. That will depend on the votes on Super Tuesday.

And as we show you the candidates in our BALLOT BOWL coverage, we also want to show you some of the important surrogates. With so many states at play from coast to coast, you need help campaigning in advance of Super Tuesday. And the Democrats were getting it from some high profile surrogates. When we come back, Michelle Obama, the wife of Senator Barack Obama, she is out campaigning. And you will hear from here.

And also the most famous political surrogate of all, the former president, Bill Clinton, who has stirred up some controversy as he campaigns for his wife, Senator Hillary Clinton. Michelle Obama, Bill Clinton, when BALLOT BOWL CONTINUES. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And hello, everyone. I'm Tony Harris at the CNN headquarters in Atlanta. More of BALLOT BOWL '08 just ahead. But first, "Now in the News," police in suburban Chicago are reporting multiple victims at a shooting at a Lane Bryant store. The Chicago Tribune says four people are dead. So far police have not made an arrest.

Officials are Chad are denying suggestions that the president, Idriss Deby, has fled the country. Hundreds of rebel forces have entered the capital and fighting has been reported near the presidential palace. A battle near the airport complicated plans to evacuate a group of Americans.

Friends and family are paying tribute to Lance Corporal Maria Lauterbach at funeral services in Dayton, Ohio, today. A small silver casket containing the remains of her unborn baby is next to hers. The charred remains of the pregnant Marine were found at a fellow Marine's North Carolina home last month. Police believe Marine Corporal Cesar Laurean fled to Mexico to avoid prosecution in the case.

The second of two Amtrak trains is back on the move through California's Sierra Nevada Mountains. It was stuck overnight after a snow plow fell and blocked the tracks last night. The other train had been towed away and its passengers redirected. The Chicago-bound train is now en route again, some 16 hours behind schedule.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HARRIS: French President Nicolas Sarkozy is once again a married man. Today he tied the knot with former model Carla Bruni in a small private ceremony in Paris. Mr. Sarkozy divorced his wife of 11 years in October.

I'm Tony Harris. You'll hear from Michelle Obama and Bill Clinton in the BALLOT BOWL after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Welcome back to CNN's BALLOT BOWL '08. I'm Candy Crowley here in Los Angeles. We've just heard from Hillary Clinton who has left here to do a little more campaigning in this all-important state. But this is not a campaign just about the candidates, believe it or not. It is also about their spouses.

You know, those are the ones standing behind the candidates smiling and clapping. But more often than not, many of these spouses are flying solo. Our Soledad O'Brien sat down with Michelle Obama recently, and that was part of the conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You have talked about politics being Barack's dream but not your dream. Are there moments in this campaign -- or have there been moments where you've said, what are we doing here? This is grueling.

MICHELLE OBAMA, WIFE OF BARACK OBAMA: Oh, yes, yes, yes, no. Every day.

O'BRIEN: Really?

M. OBAMA: Absolutely. You know, I mean, there is nothing rational about politics. And I say this a lot of times in my stump. I say, you know...

O'BRIEN: It's kind of a strange position for someone whose husband is running to be president.

M. OBAMA: Right. But it's also honest, I think. And I think people should understand, you know, not out of a sense of sympathy, but I think the truth is, is that most Americans don't opt into this, and it's not because they don't want to help the country. It's just that this is a pretty taxing way to do it. But with that said, I also say this has been one of the most worthwhile things that I've ever done in my life.

O'BRIEN: What makes it worthwhile?

M. OBAMA: You know, you don't get an opportunity to travel around the country, to go into people's homes, into their communities, into their barber shops and beauty shops and to talk. That's part of our challenge in this nation, is that we are so isolated from one another.

And that isolation just reinforces what we perceive to be divisions. But the truth is, is that when you sit down and talk to people, have a conversation, you make a joke, you're working in the same environment, you realize that folks are suffering the same challenges. They have the same hopes and dreams. Folks are not that far apart.

And it's reassuring to be reminded that there is more that unites us than divides us, because it makes you hopeful that with better leadership, you can get people to recognize the work that we can do together.

O'BRIEN: Did you support Barack's presidential ambitions from the get-go?

M. OBAMA: No. It took a little while. Took a little while...

O'BRIEN: Did you say, no, honey...

M. OBAMA: Oh yes, absolutely, I said, no, no, you can't be serious. Because we had just come off of, a few years ago, a tough U.S. Senate race. And you know, in your mind, you're sort of like, OK, that was one really hard thing that we did and now we're done. We're going to press the easy button for a little while, right? I knew he couldn't stay there for a long time. He does -- Barack doesn't do anything that's not easy.

O'BRIEN: What made you come around? What was his convincing argument that you're now on the campaign trail?

M. OBAMA: You know, for me, in my mind -- well, first, there were sort of hurdles -- practical hurdles. How does this work? How do we structure it? How do I negotiate my work? Financially, how do we make this happen? How will the kids feel?

You know, so there were a whole list of those kind of really practical things. And then when those were answered satisfactorily, then it became, what's going on in me? Right. Why am I afraid of this?

O'BRIEN: Why were you afraid of it?

M. OBAMA: Because I'm like most Americans, cynical about what you can do. And there was a level of selfishness. This is going to be hard for me, you know? But when I took off those hats and started thinking and hoping and dreaming for the things I would want for this country and the kind of leadership that I'd be looking for, I thought, if I weren't married to Barack, I would desperately want him to do this.

So the sacrifice that I'm going to have to make, you know, the little burdens that we're going to have to overcome are nothing compared to what I think he can do. So ultimately it was -- I became more selfless about thinking about the future of the country, and I started thinking about my girls.

O'BRIEN: Yes, well, about your girls, I mean, you know, you look at modern-day presidents. You think, Amy Carter hounded by the press, Chelsea Clinton mocked by Saturday Night Live. The Bush twins, you know, people blogging about where they saw them, with pictures, you know, they couldn't do one thing without the media being right in their faces all the time. Are you worried about that? Your girls are 6 and 9.

M. OBAMA: Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, no, we think about it often. But we've done the best that we can do to keep their lives as normal as possible for as long as possible. That's one of the reasons why we've kept their routines on track throughout this process. They're not on the campaign trail with us. When they're with us, it's usually because they're on break or they've decided this trip sounds interesting, which has been never.

They have never found anything that we are trying to do interesting at all. They would prefer to be going to their birthday parties and their play dates. And because they're still in their world, we've lived in the South Side of Chicago all their lives. They're in the same school that they've always been in. They have the friends that they've always had.

O'BRIEN: Which would all change if you move into the White House.

M. OBAMA: And I think my 9-year-old has a little trepidation because of that. I think she realizes that. But you know, we're going to have to work through that. But you're right. It will all change. And we're going to do our best to make sure that we protect them and make sure that they continue to be the center of our lives even in the midst of all this turmoil.

But we're going to have to work really hard to make that happen. And in the midst of this campaign, what I've done is, I don't campaign every day. I'm not gone for weeks on end. I will not go on a trip that will have me away for more than two days.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY: Michelle Obama with words to live by, there's nothing rational about politics. She's not the only spouse, of course, out there. There is a super surrogate named Bill Clinton, the first man to be spouse of, and of course the first former president to be spouse of. We'll hear from Bill Clinton later in the next hour, the final hour of BALLOT BOWL. We're also going to go live to Minneapolis to hear from Michelle Obama's husband, Barack Obama. Stay with BALLOT BOWL '08.

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