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Congress Examines $700 Billion Bailout; Sarah Palin Meets With Foreign Leaders
Aired September 23, 2008 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Coming at you now, an historic hearing to save the U.S. economy. But this Bush plan gets a sour reception.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am not going to be stampeded into rubber stamping this proposal.
SEN. JIM BUNNING (R-KY), BANKING COMMITTEE: This massive bailout is not a solution. It is financial socialism, and it's un-American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: A necessary move or trash for cash?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is going to affect me too. My tax dollars are going for this. This is exactly not what I want to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: A new poll shows Americans are angry. We'll tell you who they are mad at.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have not forgotten the economy on Main Street.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: True economic recovery requires addressing not just the crisis on Wall Street, but the crisis on Main Street.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We'll hear from the Obama and McCain camps on who can save the economy.
A video posted online, a deadly school shooting -- did police ignore the clues?
You are talking to us while we report on Twitter and more now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Here is what we are going to be doing for you. Because $700 billion, maybe a trillion of your dollars may be used to bailout the U.S. economy, we need to hear what happened today when the Senate Banking Committee took this up for the first time.
This is a bailout plan of really immeasurable proportions. And today, here is what we are going to be doing for you. You are going to will hear portions of what may be one of the most important hearings in our country's history.
But, before we get to that, this is important as well. The men who want your vote for the presidency are weighing in. John McCain, we understand, will be speaking in about 45 minutes. You will hear it right here on CNN.
But about a half-hour ago, Barack Obama had something to say about this. Let's listen in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: If the taxpayers are being asked to underwrite hundreds of billions of dollars to solve this crisis, they must be treated like investors. The American people should share in the upside as Wall Street recovers.
Now, there are different ways to accomplish this, including putting equity into those firms, instead of buying their troubled assets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Here is what we want to do now.
We want you to get a sense of some of the things that are being said today. So, here now, before we get started, I want you the hear some of the comments that were made by some of the folks there at this hearing.
And I want you to know that we're going to have two people joining us, Nancy Pfotenhauer, senior economic adviser for John McCain, Austan Goolsbee. He's a senior economic adviser for Barack Obama. Both are to in place to give us their candidate's take on this historic issue as we take you through it.
First, it was expected that Democrats would push back on this bailout plan, but listen to the critical opening statement from Republican Senator Jim Bunning of Kentucky.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUNNING: The Paulson proposal is an attempt to do what we so often do in Washington, D.C., throw money at a problem.
We cannot make bad mortgages go away. We cannot make the losses that our financial institutions are facing go away. Someone must take those losses. We can either let the people who made the bad decisions bear the consequences of their actions or we can spread that pain to others.
And that is exactly what the secretary's proposal is to do, take Wall Street's pain and spread it to the taxpayers. The Paulson plan will not help struggling homeowners pay their mortgages. The Paulson plan will not bring a stop to the slide in home prices.
But the Paulson plan will spend $700 billion worth of taxpayers' money to prop up and clean up the balance sheets of Wall Street. This massive bailout is not a solution. It is a financial socialism, and it is un-American.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. Let's get started. Nancy -- Austan, you ready to go?
NANCY PFOTENHAUER, MCCAIN CAMPAIGN POLICY ADVISER: Sure.
AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, OBAMA CAMPAIGN SENIOR ECONOMIC ADVISER: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Nancy, I want to start -- we are going to start with you, Nancy.
Here, you have Republicans opposing this Bush plan. How does your candidate separate himself from this administration economically during a crisis that many Americans believe was partially caused by this Republican administration? How big a pickle is that?
PFOTENHAUER: Well, first of all, Rick, I don't think anybody should be surprised to see Republicans pushing back on this bailout plan, because, essentially, you saw Senator Shelby come out immediately saying he had some skepticism.
But Senator McCain is going to do what he has done throughout this campaign and particularly throughout the last week or two, which is show leadership on these key issues.
Senator Obama's comments today, where he is playing catchup, I think Carl Cameron said, on so many issues, because, over a week ago, Senator McCain said we needed to have some bipartisan oversight on this problem. Today, you heard Barack Obama finally catching up on that. You heard Senator McCain talking about making sure there was oversight to make sure that whatever we came up with didn't result in CEOs getting golden parachutes. Today, you heard Senator Barack Obama saying that.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: All right, let me stop you there.
(CROSSTALK)
PFOTENHAUER: But, no, let me finish, Rick.
Senator McCain did what was politically risky, but showed true leadership, when he rolled out a very specific plan and even called for the establishment of the mortgage and financial institutions trust, ahead of the Congress, ahead of the White House, ahead of Treasury.
SANCHEZ: All right.
PFOTENHAUER: He did all that because it was the right thing to do and didn't hide behind rhetorical pabulum.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let's give Austan a chance here.
Was Senator McCain ahead or behind, Austan?
GOOLSBEE: No, look, Ms. Pfotenhauer is confused about the timing. And I am not surprised.
If I had a 26-year record of burning up the rules of the road, of advocating the deregulation of financial, telecom and other markets of the economy, if I had, as her candidate has, just written an op-ed saying that we ought to deregulate the health industry, as we have deregulated the banking industry, and holding that up as a model of where we want to go, I wouldn't want to be talking about my record either. So, that is exactly where they are.
SANCHEZ: Nancy, let me come back to you.
Does he have a record, John McCain, of being for deregulation?
PFOTENHAUER: Well, you know, even "The Washington Post" acknowledges that Senator Obama's attack on those grounds is completely false and unwarranted.
And it is interesting to hear from Austan, since I was just reading an article he wrote about the benefits of subprime mortgages just yesterday. So, this is pretty rich.
But I have to say, Senator McCain's position, because he has been so forthcoming, is completely open to examination. He has been -- he is not in favor of bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake, but he has been in favor and since 2002 has been out front calling for the right level of regulation and consistent and stable regulation.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: In fact, we have a quote. Let me share that with you. This is back in March of this year. This is Senator McCain talking to "The Wall Street Journal." I will share it with you that information as it came in.
I think we have that. Can we put it up, if we can? All right. Here we go.
I'm going to try and read it to you as you see it on the board. This is Senator McCain in "The Wall Street Journal."
He says: "I am always for less regulation. But I am aware of the view that there is a need for government oversight." He goes on to say in this interview, Nancy, that "I do believe that there is a role for oversight," but, in the end, he finishes by saying, "I am fundamentally a deregulator." That is back in March, Nancy and Austan.
(CROSSTALK)
PFOTENHAUER: Well, you can go back to July 11, 2002.
GOOLSBEE: In March, Barack Obama outlined a proposal. In March, at the same time, John McCain even in the same sentence couldn't figure out which side of the issue he was going to be on.
Barack Obama was at Cooper Union with the advice of Paul Volcker, Bill Donaldson, and a lot of the leading economic thinkers, putting forward a six-point plan of exactly how we ought to reestablish the rules of the road. Those six points remain with us today.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me stop you there. You have both represented your candidates well. We have got a lot more to talk about as the discussion continues in Washington about this bailout, what the American taxpayers' role should be in this. I know it is something that both candidates care a lot about.
Also, we have got people joining us now on Twitter.com/ricksanchezCNN, as well as MyFace (sic) Spacebook (sic).
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: MySpace and Facebook. Here it is.
Mike Bates says: "The GOP is justifiably skeptical of government solutions devised to remedy problems created by government intervention."
That is to Nancy's point, that as many Republicans are angry about this as there are Democrats.
And then this one. Lalisa says: "Lip service," referring to what she thinks Republicans are doing. "I am frankly appalled that, we, the taxpayers are not able to vote on how our money is being thrown away."
So, there you go, one from the left, one from the right. We will continue.
Does this bailout deal need to be done right away? Wait until you hear what senators are saying about this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Talking to us while we are talking to you.
By the way, look at this video. Police in Finland had their man, but they didn't know it. That was yesterday. Today, he is dead, killed himself and took 10 innocent people with him. That is ahead.
Welcome back, everyone, world headquarters of CNN. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Today, Republican senators have been saying that they are going to have a tough time voting for this historic bailout measure because they feel like Americans are really getting a raw deal in this. Democrats agree. But they go a step further. They are comparing this to the Iraq war run-up, and they are saying that they will not allow themselves to be rushed. They want time to consider this and even do it in a sequence if need be.
Listen to this exchange now I want you to hear. It's between Secretary Treasury Henry Paulson and New York Senator Chuck Schumer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: I know ideally you would like to just have as much possible, but you are not going to use $700 billion in these three months. It is a huge sum of money, even $150 billion. And the confidence of the markets will be determined by how well it works initially, not by how much money you have in your pocket next to your bazooka.
HENRY PAULSON, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: I would say, with all due respect, Senator, you are going to have to decide -- we, the two of us, have made the recommendation of what is required.
As you have said, this will not be spent or invested right away. It's going to be done in tranches.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Nancy, what is John McCain's position on the speed with which this should be done?
PFOTENHAUER: He thinks we need to move quickly, but not at the sacrifice of not doing it -- of doing it wrong. So, he says we need to move with alacrity, but we need to make sure we do this correctly and we need to protect the taxpayer. That is paramount.
And one of the things that I think is important here is that he said again days ago -- and I believe the Obama campaign attacked us for it -- he said, you do not solve a problem of lax oversight with no oversight. He had a real questions about giving Secretary Paulson or giving any individual -- he said he had a lot of respect for Secretary Paulson, but you don't give any individual a $700 billion check without oversight.
SANCHEZ: Austan, let me let you hear this as well. This is interesting. This is a Republican senator, Bob Corker of Tennessee. Look at how he is characterizing this quick and clean comment that Henry Paulson has made about how he wants this thing done.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BOB CORKER (R), TENNESSEE: I think it is absolutely reprehensible that, in the biggest financial crisis in modern history, our timeline is to get out of here on Friday, so we can adjourn for the year in September.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You know, what is interesting about this, he sounds like he is saying this thing may be not done by Friday.
Would Senator Obama want this thing passed quick and clean, as Paulson has said, or would it actually suit Senator Obama to have this thing prolonged somewhat?
GOOLSBEE: Well, no.
Look, Senator Obama from the first moment that we have been facing this crisis has had paramount on his mind, let's deal with what may be the biggest financial crisis potential of catastrophe that we have had in decades, if not a century.
So, this is not a political event. What suits Senator Obama is he talked with Secretary Paulson. He talked with Chairman Bernanke. He has also consulted key financial advisers from both parties and major names like Paul Volcker and Warren Buffett about what is the proper approach to take.
Let's not go use $700 billion of taxpayers' money and then have it not work. So, both Senator McCain and Senator Obama agree on the need for oversight. It is my belief that, if you look at the record, Senator Obama was out front, but they are both on that position.
My second point of view, however, is that, if you look at what Senator Obama is doing, it marks a long trend in his record that a year ago, he went to Wall Street, itself, and spoke at Nasdaq, and said, we face the possibility of financial crisis if we not did do two things, one, improve the lot of ordinary Americans an ease the squeeze on them, because that is the direct link to the financial problems that we are having now, and two, reestablish the rules of the road...
SANCHEZ: Then what...
GOOLSBEE: ... that President Bush, people like Phil Gramm and John McCain have been trying to get rid of. That is how this happened.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question, because I just did some research before this interview.
GOOLSBEE: Certainly.
SANCHEZ: And most financial experts say that Barack Obama's record on this oversight and deregulation is -- quote -- "thin." Are they wrong?
GOOLSBEE: Not true at all. Yes, not true at all. Two-and-a- half years ago, Senator Obama -- he has not been in Washington for 26 years, as John McCain has, but for the years he has been there, two- and-a-half years ago, he tried to introduce legislation that would have directly addressed the deterioration of subprime lending standards, which has mightily contributed to this exact crisis.
A year-and-a-half ago, he sent a letter to Chairman Bernanke and Secretary Paulson saying, though no crisis has begun, you could see from the subprime issues that there was the potential of a brewing crisis, and we should take action then.
SANCHEZ: OK. All right. I was quoting, by the way, both Bloomberg and "The Wall Street Journal" with that "thin' quote that I mentioned moments ago.
All right, Nancy and Austan, stay right there. We're going to come back and continue this discussion. As Congress tries to decide what to do about this, we have spokespersons for the candidates with us as well. We go through the discussion.
Coming up, Henry Paulson comes under attack himself. Some call him the newly crowned King Henry, as you see right there in "Newsweek," and one senator grills him. You are about to hear it right here.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: America is trying to decide what to do about this financial crisis.
And you are weighing in right here on CNN. In fact, let's go to some of your comments. Man, we're getting a lot of them, a bevy.
"Let the banks fail. There is no consumer run on banks and there won't be, like in 1929," says that viewer.
Bret Peters says, "Fools rush in! So glad representatives from both sides have opened their eyes to this blank check. About time that we all work together," referring, of course, to the spokesperson for both McCain and Obama here on CNN.
Plumisland said: "Congress cannot come to terms on an oversight board by Friday. Come on. None of them want to stand up before the election."
Then Daryl T. says, or I.T. says: "This caught everyone flat- footed. The first candidate to admit this will win the election."
Interesting. I want to hear another exchange now, and I want you to be able to see exactly what was going on today in Congress.
Here is Senator Bunning now from Kentucky again, this time hammering Henry Paulson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUNNING: You said in an earlier statement that you were -- you didn't realize the maze of regulatory problems that we have here on the Hill, and that you and other companies like you were CEO of were dealing with here. You made that statement to us all sitting at this table.
PAULSON: I said, you have to get down here, look at the people, look at the plumbing, look at the inadequacies. I was not studying...
BUNNING: You were dealing with it on a daily basis.
(CROSSTALK)
PAULSON: ... was dealing with all of the various regulators.
So, I guess what I have said is that you have to see it up close and personal, and then step back and look at it and think about it, and say, how does this make sense? And that was my statement, yes, sir.
BUNNING: In other words, you didn't know or somebody on your firm other than you was dealing with the regulatory burdens that were placed on your firm?
PAULSON: Well, I was dealing with very well all the regulatory burdens of my firm. But to look back and say -- look at the broader economy, to look at some of the holes in the regulatory system as it relates to other institutions.
BUNNING: I am going to have to answer to the 4.2 million people in Kentucky and all these other senators up here are going to have to answer to their constituents if this plan does not work. And I am frightful to the point of almost panic that I don't see a solution in your plan to address this financial crisis that we are in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That was the tone that was being set today in the Congress.
Nancy, let me start with you.
Senator McCain said he would fire Chris Cox. Given some of the hesitation that we are hearing now about Henry Paulson on the Hill, would he keep Henry Paulson?
PFOTENHAUER: Senator McCain has not projected that far. What he said is that he respects Secretary Paulson very much, but again that no individual should be invested with this type of unchecked power.
And what he said about SEC Chairman Christopher Cox I think again shows that Senator McCain believes in accountability. He said, look, I like Chris Cox, but the SEC was asleep at the switch. And, specifically, he identified two areas that would have -- regulatory areas, if you will, that would have acted as almost circuit breakers.
You had -- the SEC was too slow to do anything on naked short selling, and they basically did the wrong thing on the uptick rule. And what happened is that, when the downward spiral began without those circuit breakers in place, you had what was effectively like a great big plunger pushing things further down.
And, so, that meant the SEC was not doing their job.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. That is a lot of information.
Austan, I think you know -- you want to weigh in here?
GOOLSBEE: Well, all I will say is that I am happy to see that John McCain and John McCain's advisers are now coming around to the view that we ought to have rules of the road, and the government should be aggressively enforcing them.
That has been a 26-hour conversion in the last 26 hours.
PFOTENHAUER: That is so not true.
GOOLSBEE: The previous 26 years, John McCain has systematically advocated the deregulation of industry after industry. And his advisers, including Phil Gramm, Ms. Pfotenhauer herself, and several of his other leading campaign people were lobbyists.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Nancy, we are losing you, because, apparently, by satellite -- our satellite time is up.
But, Nancy Pfotenhauer, if you are still around, I do want to ask you this question, though, Austan.
PFOTENHAUER: Sure.
SANCHEZ: A lot of the Americans still want to know one thing.
GOOLSBEE: Yes.
SANCHEZ: We have a poll that I can put up that shows that Americans today, according to this CNN poll, feel that Republicans are much more responsible for the financial crisis that we are in now. If that is the case, why does this next poll that I am going to show have your candidate only up by five points at this time? Shouldn't he, logically speaking, be winning by more, as a Democrat?
GOOLSBEE: Well, I am not sure.
I agree that it is primarily the Republican mind-set of let's burn up the rules of the road that got us into this, where we're going to have to pay $700 billion. I believe that in most of the polls -- and I'm not a political expert -- I'm just a policy adviser.
SANCHEZ: Right.
GOOLSBEE: But in the polls I have seen, on the issue of the economy, when asked which of the two candidates do you think would be a better manager of the economy, Obama is leading by a fairly significant margin.
(CROSSTALK)
GOOLSBEE: Why the overall race is close, I don't totally know.
SANCHEZ: I guess we will just have to wait to see if in the next couple of weeks we will see an uptick, given the current trend with this economic crisis.
My thanks to you, Austan, and to Nancy Pfotenhauer as well.
GOOLSBEE: Pleasure to be here.
SANCHEZ: Interesting conversation. I am glad we had you both on today to take us through this.
Coming up, she has been derided for a lack of foreign policy credentials. So, today was Sarah Palin's big coming-out party on the international stage. We're going to tell you what she hoped to accomplish with today's flurry of meetings with foreign leaders.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez here in the world headquarters of CNN.
Seven out of nine witnesses have recanted their testimony, yet this man will likely die tonight, executed, unless somebody stops it. We are live outside of death row. And that is ahead.
First, though, the woman who wants to be your vice president did something today for the very first time. She met a leader from another country.
This is Alaska Governor Sarah Palin face to face with Afghan President Hamid Karzai in New York. Today is a crash court in global meet and greet for Palin. She is scheduled to meet no less than nine heads of state in just about 24 hours, among them the presidents of Iraq and Colombia, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, and Bono. Governor Palin is dealing with criticism of her lack of international exposure. She was issued her very first ever passport just last year.
We are going to also be getting some of your feedback as we follow the conversation both in Congress about what is being done to avert this financial crisis in our country.
Among those that we have gotten is from Michael Nolan. He says: "Whatever happened to checks and balances? No one deserves a blank check that taxpayers have to foot the bill for."
And Bret Peters says: "It is sad that only during crisis that both sides come together. We need this kind of government year- round."
And, finally, Janoss says: "Polls are fictitious. They are only there to keep people watching the news," as for those polls that we shared just a little while ago that shows Obama up by five points, despite what is going on with the economy.
Coming up, is the state of Georgia set to execute an innocent man? That is the question swirling around the case of Troy Davis.
And, then, police had their man, but they didn't know they had him, so they let him go. Now, 10 people and the gunman are dead. It is a fascinating story from Finland. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back to the interactive hour. I'm Rick Sanchez here in the world headquarters of CNN.
You have do have to wonder if the police in western Finland are second guessing themselves today. Yesterday they questioned a 22-year- old school student about this YouTube video showing him firing a handgun. He didn't threaten anybody in the video, so they let him go. This morning, that same student went to his school and opened fire. He killed at least 10 people, and then took his own life. This is Finland's second school massacre in less than a year.
Meanwhile, the Supreme Court is the last hope for a convicted cop killer, but if it is going to intervene, they have to do it quickly. Troy Davis is scheduled to die in Georgia in three and a half hours, even though most of the witnesses against him have taken back the testimony. Another man is said to have privately confessed to the crime.
Among those calling for a new trial, former President Jimmy Carter and Nobel peace prize laureate Desmond Tutu. Last year, CNN's Rusty Dornin interviewed Davis by phone and asked why he accepted blame for the murder during his trial?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TROY DAVIS, DEATH ROW INMATE: Because I didn't want to be labeled as a snitch.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that's the only reason?
DAVIS: Yes, which is stupid.
DORNIN: How are you preparing for idea that these efforts to save your life may not work?
DAVIS: I have put it all in God's hands and staying prayerful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Rusty Dornin is standing by live for us. She is going to join us after the break with the very latest with Davis and the Supreme Court appeal. Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Paul Begala has never been shy about politics. Expect him to sound off right here in just a little bit. He has been watching what has been going on today in Washington as well as what we have been talking about. He will join us in a little.
By the way, let's go to "Twitter Board". This is interesting. Radio stations sometimes are as creative as anybody else.
Go-Getter just wrote to us seconds ago, saying: "We are listening to 98.7 KISS fm and they are saying this is a stickup and we are being robbed by the government with our eyes open." Interesting comment.
Back to now the story that we were telling you about before the break. As we told you, we are waiting to hear from the Supreme Court. Will they stop tonight's scheduled execution of convicted cop killer Troy Davis? CNN's Rusty Dornin has been following the case for an awful long time and she joins us to bring us the latest - Rusty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARTINA CORREIA, SISTER OF TROY DAVIS: I am trying to answer all of the e-mails and things about Troy.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On a mission, Martina Correia works 18-hour days with one aim, to save her brother Troy's life. Troy Davis was convicted of killing Savannah Police Officer Mark MacPhail in 1989. He's schedule to be executed on Tuesday. There was no physical evidence, no murder weapon found. Correia says that alone should cast doubt on the jury's guilty verdict.
CORREIA: When you only have eyewitness testimony and no physical evidence and people have fallacies and we make mistakes.
DORNIN: A case of mistaken identity. That is what Davis' lawyers and supporters claim. This was the scene in 1989. In this parking lot of the Greyhound bus station in Savannah, Georgia. Some witnesses say Davis and two other men were following a homeless man across the street, harassing him. Off duty Officer Mark MacPhail ran out to break up the fight. That is when some witnesses claim Troy Davis shot the policeman twice, and ran. In Savannah, the man hunt was on. Davis surrendered to investigators days later.
(on camera): Since Davis' conviction the defense claims seven witnesses have changes and sometimes even contradicted their own story. During the trail the defense claimed it was another man that shot MacPhail in this parking lot. Now some of the witnesses are pointing their finger at the same man, claiming that fear of reprisal and police coercion caused them to accuse Davis.
(voice over): Monty Holmes is one witness who changed his story, but now he claims he was coerced by police.
MONTY HOLMES, WITNESS WHO CHANGED STORY: They were trying to get me to say that he did it, but he didn't do it.
DORNIN: Major Everett Ragan, headed of the homicide investigation back then. He dismisses allegations of coercion. And as for witnesses changing their stories, he doesn't believe it.
MAJ. EVERETT RAGAN, SAVANNAH-CHATHAM METRO POLICE: There is no doubt in my mind we arrested the right person.
DORNIN (on camera): There is no element of doubt that it could have been the other man?
RAGAN: No.
DORNIN (voice over): Sergeant David Owens has no doubts either. He was a close friend of the victim, a man everyone called Mac. It was Owens you see here trying to save MacPhail's life in the back of the ambulance in 1989.
Owens now hopes the victim won't be forgotten.
SGT. DAVID OWENS, SAVANNAH-CHATHAM METRO POLICE: Just hope that people will remember that this man stood for what is good in society. He was murdered for it, and now the punishment needs to be fulfilled.
DORNIN: But how can you fulfill the punishment, argue defense if you execute the wrong man?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Rusty Dornin joins us now.
Rusty, you there?
DORNIN: Rick, that - yes. That question troubled the pardon and paroles board of Georgia so much they stopped Troy Davis' execution last year. They held exhaustive hearings. All of those witnesses testified in closed door hearings, as well as Davis himself, and recently announced that clemency was not warranted in this case.
Meantime, the Georgia supreme court turned down the appeal for new trial, and yesterday, they denied a stay for execution. So now it is in the hands of the U.S. Supreme Court. During these final hours, I did speak to Troy Davis' sister this morning, and they have been inside of the prison with Troy Davis all day long, with him, spending what they called family time and praying.
I also spoke to the victim's mother, Mark MacPhail's mother. And she feels that she feels justice will finally be done. She has no doubt in her mind that Troy Davis was the man who shot and killed her son. And she feels that her family has been through hell for 19 years and they might finally have some peace.
They are expecting quite a few protesters here, Rick. They have not yet arrived. As you can see that the security is very tight at this prison south of Atlanta - Rick.
SANCHEZ: We will have to wait to see if there is any kind of decision made on this that might spare his life. Rusty, thank you for being all over that story.
Coming up, will a John McCain presidency be an extension of the Bush years? That is a question that more than a few people have asked. Paul Begala has a new book that says -- well, what do you think it says, he is Paul Begala -yes. Is he right? Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back, here to Atlanta. Time to check in with CNN's Wolf Blitzer. See what's going on. He is in Nw York today. What have you got, Wolf?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Rick.
Iran's president, he is here in New York as well. And he is getting ready to address the United Nations. We will go there live as soon as we hear from him.
Also, it has been weeks and Senator McCain has not given a news conference in more than a month. We are going to be hearing from Senator McCain as well. And we will have all of the latest on the financial meltdown and the drama unfolding on Capitol Hill.
Lots of news coming up right here in "The Situation Room." Back to you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much, Wolf. We certainly appreciate it.
You know, electing John McCain president would just be like electing George W. Bush to a third term. Tough talk? Not my words, obviously. That is the argument that veteran Democrat Paul Begala is making in his new book. It's called "Third Term." He is joining us now from Washington.
And before we do anything else, let me let you take a look at some of the "Twitters" that are coming in, Paul. This is interesting.
PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Excellent.
SANCHEZ: This one says: "Polls are inaccurate, and done by phone. How many people under 25 have a landline anymore? And they are mostly Obama supporters."
And this one, it says, "My sincere prayer is that polls are skewed." Then we got this one that says, Paul Begala looks presidential in a Dr. Strangelove kind of way, he should run, Trumanesque."
BEGALA: It is signed Bill Greenwell, Rick, but I wonder if that is my mom's screen name on "Twitter". I think Mom might be --
SANCHEZ: That may very well be.
Paul, we are in a historic economic crisis.
BEGALA: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Your party is running against an administration and a party that is being linked to this crisis, directly. In fact, Claude, put up number two for us, if you would. This that poll we were showing earlier. We at CNN asked the Americans who is most responsible for this and 47 percent of them say Republicans and only 24 percent say Democrats. Why is Obama only up by 5 points?
BEGALA: Well, that is the question. I heard you ask it earlier and I am very interested in what your viewers say on "Twitter". My own view is, in part, the Democrats have not done a good enough job to putting McCain and Bush on trial, of indicting them.
I think McCain has done a pretty good job to throwing up what Ross Perot used to call gorilla dust. You remember, he used to say that when two gorillas fight, one of them throws up dust in the other one's face to distract him.
So, McCain, all of a sudden, after a quarter of a century of being for deregulation, now is pretending like he is a latter day Teddy Roosevelt. He wants to regulate Wall Street and crackdown on abuses. Of course, if that is true, that's fine. But count me as a skeptic, because he voted for all of those deregulatory schemes under Bush. And it is why I think the Democrats have to make the case, you can't just - this won't just fall into the Democrats.
SANCHEZ: Well, I apologize -- you know I'm going to read your book, because I always read everything that you put out.
BEGALA: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: Your blogs and everything else. But because of the hurricanes and everything that has been going on, I have not had a chance to read it. How do you spell out how you do this? I mean, how do you make so many Americans, who don't buy your argument, understand that - as you say - McCain is another Bush?
BEGALA: Right. Well, one of the things that is so glaringly different is that John McCain is a by God war hero. All of the research (INAUDIBLE) and I've done the research on this. The more you look into his service in Vietnam, the more you admire it. It is not spin, that is not hyped. It is real.
But, -- President Bush, while he has his virtues, he did not cover himself with glory during the Vietnam era. But the record on foreign policy and domestic policy really is just the same. And on the economy, the one big difference is McCain voted against the Bush tax cuts, which helped, I think, and Democrats believe dig us into this economic ditch, in terms of the deficit. But now he has flip- flopped on that. So, McCain didn't think the Bush tax cuts should be temporary. Now he says the Bush tax cuts should be permanent. That is like marrying a girl you didn't want to date. Now it's a permanent deal, but we didn't want it to be temporary?
SANCHEZ: So where does the label maverick come from for John McCain? I mean, this is something that he has really been called by members of the media, and apparently not able to get along with many Republicans for many years?
BEGALA: Well, right. Having a difficult personality does not always make you a maverick. He has voted with Bush, I looked up the records, 91 percent of the time over the whole Bush presidency; 95 percent last year, but I took the whole average of all seven and a half years and it is 91 percent. Now, if we were sports reporters, right? And somebody hit from the right side of the plate 91 percent of the time, we would not define him as a left-handed hitter.
The facts are, on all of the big issues, McCain has been right there with Bush. Sometimes with Bush even against the conservative wing of his party, like on immigration where McCain used to have a liberal position, as Bush did with Teddy Kennedy, but he has flip- flopped on that, as well. So I think McCain maverick image is frankly a lot of is a lot of hype and not a lot of reality.
SANCHEZ: Paul Begala with what should be a great read. The kind of read you pick up in the airport and read it between one city and the next.
BEGALA: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: Paul, always - hey, can you come to see us a few more times?
BEGALA: I cannot wait. But also, I want to thank you personally. I grew up in that part of Texas that was hit by that terrible storm, Ike. And I have brothers and my dad who got hit pretty hard by it. So, I'm really grateful for your reporting.
SANCHEZ: You know what I got a chance to do, though, I got a chance to meet some real tough and real hardy people while I was down there.
BEGALA: They are, they're tough people, man.
SANCHEZ: They really are. Thank you for your reporting. SANCHEZ: My pleasure. Paul Begala, thanks again, so much for that.
All right, that is Paul's view. He says that McCain represents more of Bush. Well, I'll bet my next guest disagrees. Leslie Sanchez is joining us now. You ready, Leslie?
LESLIE SANCHEZ, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: I am. That is great. I love to read fiction.
(LAUGHTER)
I mean, that is great. I love that. I like Paul. I actually had Paul describe the book to me and he said read it, and re-register as a Democrat. I didn't he was such a comic, too. I think that is great. I have great respect. There's a lot of hard work that goes into being an author. I applaud Paul for that.
And it's very much a strategic step. In seriousness, Rick, to try to align -
R. SANCHEZ: Let me hold you on that thought. Because we're getting the tough questions when we come back. Stay right there, Leslie.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
R. SANCHEZ: Welcome back. We are off and running. Before the break we heard from Democrat Paul Begala. Joining us now Republican strategist Leslie Sanchez.
Man, you were ready to go! I just showed your picture and you were like, lacka-lacka-lacka, ready to got there.
L. SANCHEZ: I know. You know, Paul and I grew up in the same town, which is fun. Just very - ideologically we came out in two different directions.
R. SANCHEZ: It's interesting the way that happened. What Paul is saying in his book is that you undoubtedly can tie John McCain to President Bush. Some could, and could not, make an argument for that in the past. But does this economic crisis that we're in right now make it easier for Democrats to be able to do that?
L. SANCHEZ: To some extent, Rick, I think that's true. I think in many ways the economic issue, economic populism is a Democratic issue. It's something people instinctively, for many years, have thought that the Democrats did a better job with the economy.
And I think with Republicans losing control of the spending, there's a lot of Republicans who are really mad at Congress and the president, with respect to that.
Now, realistically, I don't think either candidate inspired a lot of confidence last week. I think what people are looking for is who's going to be a good economic shepherd of the economy? Who has the experience and the leadership? Who has the best team? I think in those instances Senator McCain is doing very well.
R. SANCHEZ: John McCain has a history, though, of being for deregulation. I mean, he really does. In fact, take a look at this poll. We conducted this poll. This is number three, Chris, the one on -- on deregulation. No, let's put up number three. How Americans feel about deregulation. See if you can put that one up.
Americans are obviously thinking that deregulation is a big problem. You didn't get to see it there. We'll see if we can put it up in just a little bit. You have to take my word for it, but Americans are very concerned that there hasn't been enough emphasis put on taking care, minding the store, so to speak, in Washington. Is this a problem for John McCain?
There it is. Government regulation of stock market and financial institutions, 50 percent of Americans say too little; only 21 percent, right amount, 26 percent say too much. What do you think of that?
L. SANCHEZ: There's a tremendous amount of moral outrage right now that the government had to come in and bail out Wall Street. We can't deny that. There is definitely a need to look with a more jaundiced eye at this. But you have to look at the fact with respect to Senator McCain, he was somebody calling two years ago for more regulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. He is somebody who didn't walk lock step, like people would like to say, with the president or with the Republican Party.
As a candidate he stands as an individual. But with respect to that, I think there is blame to go all the way around. The question is who's going to have the best leadership moving forward?
R. SANCHEZ: All right. Thanks so much, Ms. Sanchez. We appreciate you being on with us.
L. SANCHEZ: OK.
R. SANCHEZ: You're the best.
It's one of those who's who of world leaders in New York today as the United Nations General Assembly began. Latin America, well represented, of course. My colleagues at CNN Espanol have been watching it.
Hello to Glenda Umana, who's joining us now to give us a sense of what's been going on.
Hola, Glenda. Coma esta?
GLENDA UMANA, CNN ESPANOL: Hola, Rick. Coma esta?
Well, a lot going on in New York. Especially from Colombia, we were seeing (INAUDIBLE) had a meeting with Sara Palin, the Republican vice presidential candidate.
He says they spoke about the free trade agreement between the United States and Colombia, which hasn't been ratified yet, by Congress. And Colombia has been pushing for it, but obviously, Congress is busy with the financial bailout.
Also this afternoon, let me tell you, Rick, we are interviewing the President Juan Evo Morales from Bolivia. We invite everybody. Hasta luego.
SANCHEZ: No friend of the United States, right?
UMANA: No, we hope to ask him about the reason he expelled the ambassador of the United States.
SANCHEZ: No, los amigo de los Yankees. We should say.
All right. Thanks so much, Glenda. We appreciate it.
He once played a Saxophone on the Arsineo Hall show. What does Bill Clinton do on "Late Night with David Letterman" this time? I'll show you in just a bit. Be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, this one comes in just moments ago from Facebook, here it is. This is Joseph Anthony. He says: "Rick, let's face it. The surrogates, they come on the air to tout their candidates record, are looking in the rearview mirror. We need candidates and campaigns that are forward thinking. By the way, Hank Paulson may be the most powerful man in the lame duck presidential administration, but he's no king, as he'll be replaced on January 20th."
There's a good prediction coming our way. Here's another prediction about the next president of the United States from the previous president of the United States. Bill Clinton went on "Late Show with David Letterman" last night. He says Obama will win the election with many voters deciding at the last possible moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A lot of people will go into that polling place, saying, you know, I really admire Senator McCain. He gave about all you can give to this country without getting killed for it. But I got to have a change and I think I'm going the other way. That's what I think will happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Former President Clinton is going to be offering advice for both of the candidates tomorrow night on "Larry King Live". That's Eastern, 9:00, on CNN.
Let's go over to Susan Lisovicz and see how the market is going to fair today. When I saw it, it was up. Is it still?
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: No. That's what volatility is all about, Rick. And we are on track seven for seven; seven triple-digit moves, to the upside, to the downside. The word here, two words, second guessing.
A lot of folks on Wall Street thought the bailout was a done deal. Now there's a skeptical Congress and you've seen the markets sell off, you know, Treasury Secretary Paulson, Fed Chairman Bernanke said time is of the essence. Still not done, and you're seeing a triple-digit move to the downside. See you tomorrow, Rick.
SANCHEZ: A lot of doubt there, a lot of doubt in Washington. Wolf Blitzer is going to clear it all up for us. He's standing by in New York. Wolf, take it away.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Rick.
