Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Undoing the Damage: FBI Looks for Mortgage Fraud; Selling the Bailout; Interview With Donald Trump
Aired September 24, 2008 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Congress may be cold to the Bush administration's $700 billion big bank bailout plans, but President Bush plans to go over lawmakers heads. He'll speak to the nation in a televised speech at 9:00 Eastern tonight, and of course you'll see it live right here on CNN.
Overseas, four more central banks are joining forces with the Fed to pump another $30 billion into the world's credit market.
And Warren Buffett sees gold in Goldman Sachs. The "Oracle of Omaha" is sinking $5 billion into the now tarnished investment bank and may sink $5 billion more.
The treasury secretary tells Congress there's plenty of blame to go around for all that's gone wrong. Now the FBI wants to know whether anybody broke any laws. Sources tell CNN that Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Lehman Brothers, and the insurance giant AIG, as well as their executives, are being investigated for possible mortgage fraud.
Joining me now with more about that is Evan Perez of "The Wall Street Journal."
Evan, good to see you.
EVAN PEREZ, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": Good to see you.
PHILLIPS: Well, give us a little Investigations 101. How will this go down? What exactly is the FBI looking at?
PEREZ: Well, one of the things they're trying to figure out is whether fraud was at the basis of some of these problems, these financial problems that these companies ran into before they had to seek government help. And so what they are going to look for essentially is to see whether or not there was accounting fraud, whether there were executives who were perhaps selling stock behind closed doors as they were telling investors that everything was fine.
That's the basic place where they always start with these investigations. And then from there on, they will start looking at the more complex part of these securities to see whether there was crimes -- there were crimes committed there.
PHILLIPS: So Evan, let's go back to the bottom line here, and that is the lack of oversight. I mean, where was the SEC as this was going on? PEREZ: Well, I mean, that's one of the things -- I mean, as you know, as this bailout is being talked about here in Washington, one of the things people are asking is, you know, how did this come to pass? And so, one of the things they are looking at is, well, could the FBI have looked at this earlier, could the Justice Department have looked at this earlier? And, you know, invariably they go to the regulators, and, you know, there's a lot of blame, apparently, that's being passed around.
Everybody is pointing at the other. And the question of whether or not regulators could have acted earlier is certainly being brought.
I mean, some of the things that they are talking about doing with regard to restricting some of the activities on Wall Street and some of the activities of hedge funds certainly were being talked about for years. So, you know, it's something that they have talked about and discussed for years and just never did.
PHILLIPS: Well, shouldn't the regulators be held accountable as well? I mean, you can see wealthy people, OK, I can take advantage of something here because nobody is monitoring me. And what the heck? More fraud, more money, whatever. I mean, it seems like there should be others in the blame game as well like regulators.
PEREZ: Well, yes, and then you already see some of that. I think Senator McCain last week was one of the first to call for the head of -- Chris Cox, the SEC chairman.
It's probably unfair to put this at the feet of any one person. And certainly, you know, there is certainly multiple regulatory agencies that should have been and could have been doing more.
You also have to look at Congress and the administration. I mean, we're talking about not only this administration, but the Clinton administration, also, which, they both pursued this policy that, you know, getting rid of a lot of regulation, getting out of the way of business was the best way to do things.
PHILLIPS: Evan Perez, good to see you. Thanks for talking with us.
PEREZ: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, as we mentioned, President Bush is working on a primetime speech to try to sell his bailout to the nation.
CNN White House Correspondent Elaine Quijano joins me now.
Elaine, how did this speech come about?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, a number of factors going into this decision. We should tell you, discussions taking place really in earnest this morning, but one of the factors being, of course, the fact that the president of the United States, anything he says, has the power to move markets. Ultimately, the White House decided to move ahead, the president deciding to make this primetime address just after 9:00 Eastern Time, trying to sell this $700 billion financial rescue plan. The speech, we're told, will be about 12 to 14 minutes long. Just minutes before the White House made this announcement about the primetime address, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, on the Senate floor, sharply criticized President Bush, saying that he needs to do more to explain his plan to the American people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: I think the president should be available. He has given two brief statements to the press and a press release admonishing the Congress to accept his bailout plan immediately. Other than that, President Bush has been silent. We must not forget, President Bush is still the president of the United States, and it's time for him to focus on the issues and tell the American people where he is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Now, White House Press Secretary Dana Perino, in a conference call with reporters just a short time ago, saying that the president believes it is important for Americans to fully understand the depth of the crisis and says that the White House and Congress, she says, are closer, are getting closer to locking in a solution.
Now, since this plan came out over to weekend, as you know, the administration really has been blasted by both Democrats and Republicans for a number of reasons. And conservatives within the president's own party in particular have been looking at the $700 billion price tag, saying it is simply too much, too much for the American taxpayer to bear. They have been questioning why this is necessary, public funds being used to bailout private firms.
President Bush clearly has some convincing to do. He's got his work cut out for him. That address taking place, again, 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time. We expect to get some excerpts, by the way, around 5:00 Eastern -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Sounds good, Elaine. Thanks so much.
We're going to go to Capitol Hill later this hour also for the latest prospects for a bailout breakthrough.
And in his battle with Barack Obama, John McCain has accused his Democratic rival of profiting from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, the huge mortgage lenders caught up in the credit crisis. Now "The New York Times" reports that Freddie Mac paid a firm owned by McCain campaign manager Rick Davis tens of thousands of dollars until it was taken over by the government.
Now, the McCain campaign has used the financial crisis in attack ads against Obama, and the Arizona senator had this to say Friday at a campaign stop in Wisconsin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: While Freddie and Fannie were working to keep Congress away from their house of cards, Senator Obama was taking their money. He got more, in fact, than any other member of Congress, except for the Democratic chairman of the committee that oversees them. People like Senator Obama have been too busy gaming the system and haven't ever done a thing to actually challenge the system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Now, a McCain campaign spokeswoman doesn't dispute the payments to the Davis-owned firm, but she said that Davis stopped taking a salary from the company two years ago, and his work did not affect McCain's position on policy matters.
Well, from Senator Joe Biden, a strong attack today on John McCain over national security. At a campaign stop in Cincinnati, Barack Obama's running mate slammed McCain for his support of the war in Iraq and he said that the real front in the war on terror should be the Afghan/Pakistani border.
Well, Biden is known for his foreign policy experience. He's also making a name for himself with a series of verbal miscues.
For instance, he told CBS News, "When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened.'"
Well, the trouble is, Herbert Hoover was president during the 1929 crash, and that was before television.
Barack Obama's slight lead over John McCain is a bit wider today in our latest national Poll of Polls. Forty-nine percent say they back Obama, 45 percent support McCain, 6 percent still haven't made up their minds. And that Poll of Polls is an average of five different surveys, by the way.
Now, yesterday, Obama had a three-point lead.
First Lady Laura Bush has some definite thoughts on the race for the White House and on John McCain's running mate, Sarah Palin, too. We're going to hear what Mrs. Bush told our own Zain Verjee.
And where some people see calamity, Warren Buffett sees opportunity. We're going to tell you about his $5 billion lifeline for Goldman Sachs.
But first, "The Donald" joins me next, live. He'll talk about the economy, the $700 billion bailout, and, of course, his endorsement of Senator John McCain.
We'll hash it all out, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: Straight to Dunedin, Florida. Barack Obama speaking live. Let's listen in.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: ... when I am in the White House for energy independence, free ourselves from dependence on Middle Eastern oil.
(APPLAUSE)
And now, now is the time to finally meet our moral obligation to provide every child world class education. Every child, because it will take nothing less to compete in the global economy. Countries that out-teach us today will out compete us tomorrow. So I'm going to invest in early childhood education to close the achievement gap, and we're going to recruit an army of new teachers, and we'll pay them higher salaries and give them more support.
(APPLAUSE)
In exchange, we'll ask for higher standards and more accountability, but we will not have our teachers just teaching to the test. Because I want our kids learning art and music and science and all of the things that make an education worthwhile.
(APPLAUSE)
And we will keep our promise to every young American, if you are willing to invest in America, if you are willing to serve in the military, serve in the Peace Corps, work in a veterans' home, or work in an underserved hospital or an underserved school, if you are participating in national service or community service, then we will provide you with a $4,000 tuition credit, we will make a commitment ever year that you can afford to go to college. That is a good investment for America, and we will meet it when I am president of the United States of America.
(APPLAUSE)
This is the kind of change that we need, Florida, the kind of bottom-up growth and innovation that will advance the American economy by advancing the dreams of all Americans.
Understand, times are hard. I will not pretend that the change we need is going to come easy. I will not pretend that it's going to come without a cost. And I have presented how we can make these investments and achieve these changes in a fiscally responsible way, and it's going to be harder now because of all of the irresponsibility that's taking place on Wall Street.
So we're going to have to work hard and we're going to have to make good choices. We're going to have to prioritize how we spend our money. We're going to have to go through the federal budget line by line, and if programs don't work, we should cut them. If they are doing things that need to be done, we should make them work better and cheaper.
So, we are going to have our job ahead of us. But I know also that we're going to have to overcome our doubts. We're going to have to overcome our cynicism. We're going to have to overcome our divisions.
All of us are going to have to work together -- black, white, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, young, old, rich, poor, gay, straight, Democrat, Republican, Independent. All of us will have to come together.
(APPLAUSE)
The American people -- the American people will have to rise up and take on those special interests before we can truly reform a broken economy and advance opportunity. But I am running for president because we simply cannot afford four more years of an economic philosophy that works for Wall Street instead of Main Street and ends up devastating both.
PHILLIPS: Well, Barack Obama isn't the only one talking about Wall Street today. Donald Trump isn't mincing any words. He has got a lot to say about the financial mess and the government bailout, and throw in some politics to the mix, too. He's a supporter of John McCain for president, by the way.
Donald Trump joins me now live from Chicago.
Donald, good to see you.
DONALD TRUMP, REAL ESTATE TYCOON: Nice to see you.
PHILLIPS: Well, let me ask you first about Barack Obama. Is it true at one point you would have thrown your support behind him? I was hearing possibly if he would have picked Hillary Clinton, you would have been right there with him.
TRUMP: Well, I'm a big fan of Hillary's. She's a terrific woman, s he's a friend of mine. I think she was treated very poorly, and I think it's hurt Barack Obama quite badly. But she is a terrific woman.
PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk about the situation that we are in right now. I mean, who better to talk to than you, who has obviously done very well with money.
Who do we blame for this mess?
TRUMP: Well, I think it all starts with our president, wouldn't you say? I mean, he certainly has not done an outstanding job, he will never go down as one of our outstanding presidents, and it has to all start with George Bush.
PHILLIPS: There is a lot of concern though that John McCain is another George Bush. Why do you disagree with that? TRUMP: I don't think so at all. I know John McCain very well. He is not another George Bush. He's very different than George Bush, and I really think he will be a great president.
I think he's going to do a really good job. He is a tough guy, he's a smart guy, he's a very, very bright guy. He is a very, very -- he's just a quality human being. I think he will be a great president.
PHILLIPS: So what is it about him that makes him different from George Bush, Donald, with regard to economic plans, regard to fiscal policy?
TRUMP: Well, I think more than anything else, it is the man's solidity. People respect him when they see him.
I don't think they respect George Bush, but they respect John McCain. When they see him, they respect him.
He is a man worthy of respect. And this country no longer has respect. What we need more than anything else is just that word, "respect."
PHILLIPS: All right. Let's talk about the issue of the economy right now.
Warren Buffett coming forward, saying, hey, I believe in Goldman Sachs; therefore, I'm going to sink $5 billion into the now-tarnished investment bank, and possibly sink in another $5 billion more. Would you consider doing anything like that with your money?
TRUMP: Well, I do it in the form of real estate. I'm buying a lot of real estate right now, and that's my business, that's what I love, that's what I know the best. And I'm buying a lot of real estate, and I'm buying it, frankly, at very good prices. This is a great time for people to go out and buy real estate, better than maybe any time in the last 30 years.
PHILLIPS: Now, I've looked at some of your properties before. It ain't cheap, my friend. So when you look at the average American who is desperately trying to keep afloat and to afford a mortgage, yes, you are building real estate, but it's for those that can afford it.
TRUMP: But this is a great time. When you say the average American, this is a great time.
You go to the bank, they have thousands and thousands of houses each bank. Pick the one you like and make a deal.
They will finance it for you, they'll do everything for you. They want you to take it off of their hands.
This is an unbelievable time for people to buy real estate. It's a great time for people to go out the buy a house. I just bought something, a big club in Colts Neck, New Jersey. It cost $109 million to build it, and I bought it for a fraction of that. Colts Neck, New Jersey, is one of the best locations in the country.
There are so many great opportunities right now. Go out and buy real estate and make a good, tough deal.
PHILLIPS: Donald, the average person can't even fill up a tank of gas right now, and you're talking about getting a good deal on a cool $109 million.
TRUMP: No. What I'm saying is, you go to the bank. You want a house, you go to the bank, you make a deal with the bank. You buy a house and you pay some interest on the loan.
They'll give you the money. They've already put the money in, so they don't have to create a new loan. This is a great time for somebody to go out and buy a really nice house.
PHILLIPS: Are you saying that we can trust banks right now? There are lenders we can trust that if you are making, say, $45,000 a year, you could go ahead and buy a house at this point?
TRUMP: We have some great banks and some great bankers. I know many of them. I also know some very bad bankers, to be honest with you. But we really do have some great institutions, and what really this country should be doing liquefying.
They should make those institutions liquid. In other words, give them -- get money into those banks so they can loan money to people to go out to do deals, to buy houses, to build buildings, to do office buildings, and get the country back on track. Right now the banks are out of business.
PHILLIPS: All right. Let me ask you this question, because you obviously know these institutions and know money very well.
The bottom line is there was a lack of oversight, and a lot of people were allowed to do a lot of things that were fraudulent and corrupt. And a lot of it, you know, hard-working people are suffering for it now, Donald.
You know, should these regulators be held accountable for what they didn't do, and is it easy to cheat the system?
TRUMP: Well, I don't say the regulators. I think you had some very bad people and you had some very greedy people. And as I said before, you had some very bad bankers. But you also have great bankers. You have people that really love the country and they do a good, fair, honest job, and really -- and they're good at it.
PHILLIPS: Well, where are they when we are in the tank right now?
TRUMP: Well, part of the reason you are in the tank is because of the bad ones. They had some very bad people. And hopefully they are under investigation right now, they'll be and they will be put into the clinker, because there were some bad dudes out there.
PHILLIPS: Donald Trump, live from Chicago.
Good to see you.
TRUMP: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: And it looks like something's brewing between Bermuda and the Carolinas. Chad Myers is keeping an eye on it for us. He'll talk to us in just a second.
(WEATHER REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, it's 2:25 Eastern time right now. Here are some of the stories we are working on in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Money talks today at the White House. President Bush summons Barack Obama and John MCCain for a sit down on his financial bailout plan. Congressional leaders will join them to hash out compromises that might be needed to get the measure through.
And if it doesn't get through, today's meeting could be the candidates' only face to face this week. It's still unclear what will happen with tomorrow's scheduled debate Obama and the organizers say that they'll be there. McCain, of course, said that he wouldn't if no bailout deal is reached.
The Ted Stephens trial getting underway in Washington. In her opening, the federal prosecutor called it a simple case of corruption by the Alaska senator. The defense blamed a contractor friend for Stephens' troubles.
And we've reported a lot of reaction to the bailout plan from Wall Street to Main Street, and now Montana, which is a key battleground state. CNN chief correspondent John King is there to gauge the taxpayer anger that's gone from a simmer to a boil
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Montana is a long way from Wall Street in Washington, geographically and culturally. And the talk of a big bailout there is the source of outrage here.
GOV. BRIAN SCHWEITZER (D), MONTANA: I say, my god, this looks like a condition where the powerful are going to give money to the rich. What's new?
KING: Democratic Governor Brian Schweitzer calls it a classic case of Washington disconnect from the real world.
SCHWEITZER: People say, now wait a minute. My stock portfolio has gone down. I lost 15, 20 percent. My value is down to zero and they're going to bail out the big banks. What gives here?
KING: Out here what gives is a sudden and dramatic shift in public opinion. The more people hear about the $700 billion plan, the more they're trying to block it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're calling to protest. Well, you know, I heard a lot of those so let me just get this written down.
KING: At the Helena office of Republican Congressman Danny Raeburn, Susan Studer (ph) says she's never seen anything like it. A flood of calls, an ample evidence of why consensus in Congress is so hard to come by.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you saying? Basically, hit the bottom and then start again?
KING: Dozens, the past two days. And not one in favor of the bailout.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've gotten one think about it.
KING: Montana's senators give similar accounts of overwhelming opposition and concern Congress is in too much of a rush.
(on camera): You're governor. You understand sometimes you've got to make decisions that drive you crazy. But, you got to do it. Is this something you think they have to do, despite that feeling on the street? Or, is this something where they need to say, whoa, time out. Let's think a little more about this.
SCHWEITZER: Ask a few questions. If we're going to bail these coyotes out, well then how about if we have an equity position. Why wouldn't the taxpayer make a little money if they do turn around, instead of just shoveling that money out the door and have them pay themselves now, big golden parachutes again.
KING (voice-over): All this in the closing weeks of a fiercely contested presidential campaign. A pointed reminder most members of Congress face the voters, too. And in a time of profound economic anxiety, it's apparent here that the politicians promising to fix things are held in considerably less than high esteem.
John King, CNN, Helena, Montana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, for President Bush, a public backlash against the massive plan to bailout Wall Street with taxpayer dollars. Protests are taking place across the country today. They include the demonstration that you're seeing here in New York City.
Well, you remember Willie Sutton? He's famous for saying that he robbed banks because that's where the money is. Well, nowadays, the real money's not in vaults and you don't need a gun to steal it. You do need specialized know how, to route out white collar corruption though, as the FBI now suspects in the financial market meltdown. All this brings me to Harold Copus. He's a former FBI special agent, an expert in the field of forensic accounting, CSI: Wall Street, as we've been calling it..
Let me tell you, this is probably something that you wish you were active on.
HAROLD COPUS, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Oh, I tell you, I just can't wait. If Mueller would call me up and ask me to come back, I'd go back in a minute. Somebody's got to go jail big time, on this one.
PHILLIPS: Is this bigger than Enron?
COPUS: Far bigger than Enron. I will tell you this. This is a scandal on steroids.
PHILLIPS: Really? So, tell me -- I mean, we've been talking so much about the oversight. Where was the SEC? Where were all of these commissions, all these people that were supposed to keep folks accountable. I mean, does it just not happen when you're dealing with such big amounts of money?
COPUS: I had a friend of mine tell me one time, you know, Harold, if you go borrow $10,000 a bank will be over you. Go borrow $10 million and they're trying to invite you out and see what they can do to keep that loan straight. And that's what we're dealing with except the numbers are far greater.
So, were they asleep? Yes. They were asleep at the switch. Everybody -- when this investigation is finished, I suspect a lot of people are going to go to jail.
PHILLIPS: So, are you saying basically, money talks and our oversight system is lame?
COPUS: Totally. 100 percent. And what bothers me is that, in my world, the one I come from, the fox is in the chicken house, and the people right now who are writing this bailout provision, they are the same characters who have been taking contributions from these same companies that now they are trying to do the bailout of. This has got to stop and you have the start the investigation sooner than later.
PHILLIPS: So you are saying that these politicians talking about the big bailout plan were the same ones getting contributions to campaign -- I mean, give me a specific. What do you mean?
COPUS: Well, I have heard that Dodd and a couple of the others have taken thousands of dollars from these companies and how in the world can you write a bailout when you are beholden to these people. If I sent them $10, they would not pay any attention to me, but if I gave you $100,000 I would have your private cell phone number.
PHILLIPS: Interesting. So you have had these investigations when you were in the FBI. Tell me sort of how the investigation works. Where do you start with something like this? Do you go with the richest CEO in the country and work your way down from there? How do you even begin?
COPUS: Well, you'll never work that way because they have the money to pay the lawyers. So you have to start at the bottom and squeeze them and work up. And the first thing the bureau is going to have to do is put subpoenas out there and say, no destruction of records. Because I guarantee there has been some shredding parties going on. Don't shred anything, even your grandmother's for coconut cookies, they've got to stay. Everything is going to say. As soon as we finish that, we are going to slam subpoenas on you and ask for paperwork and we're going to start interviews.
PHILLIPS: How long do you think this is going to take? And how big do you think it can get and as we all sit here as taxpayers and especially lower income middle class folks, what is going to happen to them while this is all ongoing?
COPUS: We are going to take it right in the neck and some of the big guys will take bonuses and some of them is going to say, gosh, I didn't know what was going on, well, if you didn't know what was going on, why did you take all those millions in salaries and bonuses to begin with? How long will it take? Six to eight months to a year, 300 to 400 agents minimum working on this.
PHILLIPS: Could this have all been prevented if the SEC did its job better or is that too easy? Is that too black and white.
COPUS: That is too black and white. It is a combination of the SEC, it is a combination of everybody that prepared a financial statement and traded loans and pushed the paper and pushed this stuff up and kept puffing it up and fluffing it and nothing was there. It was air. By the time it got to the big boys, everybody said, hey, if we wait long enough, we will keep this thing going, so the Ponzi scheme, it collapsed.
PHILLIPS: In all of your years in the FBI, working as a CSI type on Wall Street, have you ever seen anything this bad? When you hear the word depression, do you for the first time sit back and think, yep, it can happen or is that a little overboard?
COPUS: No, I think it could happen. I believe what we are really seeing is an equivalent of financial 9/11. What these people have done on Wall Street has almost brought the economy to its knees which is what the terrorists could not do, but these characters have done that.
PHILLIPS: Wow. Harold Copus, powerful words. We'll continue to follow up with you. Will you monitor this and join us again?
COPUS: Certainly.
PHILLIPS: Appreciate it. Thank you, Harold.
COPUS: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, get ready to fly the merging skies, Delta shareholders just voted to get in bed with Northwest Airlines and Northwest shareholders already gave the plan an overwhelming thumbs up, but a union official says that this marriage will never work, because the companies are so different. The deal would still have to fly with the federal government and if it all works out, it could create the world's biggest airline.
And looks like the biggest Chevy dealer in the country is out of gas so to speak. Phil Herd Enterprises has shutdown all 14 of its dealerships. They are blaming a perfect storm of high fuel prices, a glut of gas guzzling inventory and the credit crunch. The company has had many issues for some time and GMAC discontinued credit for some dealerships last month. About 2700 people in seven states will be out of work.
And investors are pushing aside a trio of poor economic readings and instead of focusing reports of a breakthrough on the government's $700 billion bailout plan, Susan Lisovicz is at the New York Stock Exchange on more of what the optimism is doing for stocks.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there is optimism, Kyra, despite the hat trick of bad news. For instance sales of newly built homes fell to lowest levels in 17 years and durable goods, those are items, everything ranging from toasters to airplanes plunged, orders for those plunged 4.5 percent and jobless claims hit a seven- year high. So why the optimism? Well, investors are cheering word that House and Senate negotiators have agreed to a framework on the Treasury's massive bank rescue plan. You can see it play out, and the Dow Industrials had given up 560 points in the three previous sessions, but right now up 228 points or two percent and the NASDAQ and the S&P 500 each up two percent.
Investors may be in a good mood this afternoon, but not everybody is. Though, Kyra, you mentioned the coordinated protests to begin across the country in little over an hour, while earlier today, just outside of the New York Stock Exchange was a noisy demonstration led by New York City union members. They were picketing there should be no free ride on Wall Street and they want precondition for this massive plan before anything is rescued, Kyra. Back to you.
PHILLIPS: Well, that is fascinating to see how it plays out. I don't know if you you had the chance to listen to hear from the former FBI investigator ...
LISOVICZ: I did.
PHILLIPS: Amazing stuff, wouldn't you say? He put it point blank, we're in big trouble, a lot of people need to be held accountable.
LISOVICZ: Well, it will be an interesting balancing act, because in order to move forward, you cannot keep arresting people, and you know, this is really such a huge crisis that, that is unfolding, but on the other hand, you want to punish, there are plenty of culprits, boy, right across the board. No question about it, Kyra, it is huge.
PHILLIPS: Heads will start rolling. Susan Lisovicz. Sure appreciate it. LISOVICZ: You're welcome.
PHILLIPS: Oh gosh, this just breaks your heart. Authorities in Nebraska say that a father abandoned his nine children at an Omaha hospital yesterday. Not a crime though under the state's safe haven law that took effect in July. Look at this. Other states have similar laws but they only cover newborns or babies up to a year old. Well, Nebraska's language does not include an age limit. The kids dropped off last night range from one to 17.
Well, it has been a wild gas chase for a lot of people here in Atlanta. A pump without a plastic bag on the handle or no gas sign is hard to come by thanks to supply issues from Gulf Coast refineries. But Georgia's governor says that gas should flow more easily now that the EPA has eased up on some pollution restrictions the short term. Any available gas equals happy and relieved buyers and sellers. But will it relieve unhappy buyers and sellers this morning?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got a hug from the attendant this morning. She came out and gave me a big hug. So happy to see you. That is a first in eight years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Well, it could be a week or more before things get back to normal.
And on the trail, and away from their jobs, who has missed the most votes in the Senate, John McCain or Barack Obama? We will find out.
And should the first presidential debate be delayed or go on as planned? We will hear what our I-Reporters are saying.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: John McCain's running mate Sarah Palin took a tour of Ground Zero today and she also had a quick but rare exchange with reporters. Palin toured a visitors' center dedicated to the victims of the 2001 World Trade Center Attack. Outside a nearby firehouse, she took a question about U.S. strategy in Iraq and Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN, (R) VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that the presence in Iraq and Afghanistan will need to further lead to security of our nation, again, because the mission is to keep the fight over there, and do not let them come over here and attempt again what they have accomplished here and that was some destruction. Terrible destruction on that day. But since September 11th, Americans uniting and rebuilding and committing to never letting that happen again.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIPS: Governor Palin was also asked about her state's long- time senator and fellow Republican Ted Stevens whose corruption trial got started today. Asked if she supports his bid for reelection, she said, quote, "we will see where that goes."
Now earlier we asked whether President Bush sold you on the huge financial bailout and we are letting you know what you think.
Here is what Lee writes. "The president is the same guy who pushed for the invasion of Iraq based on faulty information, the advisers Paulson, Bernanke and Cox are the same guys who didn't see this mess coming. I don't have any confidence that anyone can wave a magic wand and make things right."
Deirdre writes, "I have written my congressman and senator opposing any bailout, and in nothing I have heard in days of watching news coverage and hearings has altered my opinion."
And Leslie has this to say, "I was sold but not with a great deal of confidence. It seems enacting a rescue bailout plan is necessary, possibly even critical to the U.S. economy, but it addresses only a portion of our problems."
Thank you all for e-mailing us. We sure appreciate it. It was not exactly a 3:00 a.m. phone call, but President Bush did go into crisis mode last night with a sobering speech. Reassuring the public is part of the job description and Mr. Bush has had his share of crisis over the years. How does he measure up to history? Here is Frank Sesno.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT, FORMER PRESIDENT: The only thing to fear is fear itself!
FRANK SESNO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A president said that to reassure and to explain, a fireside chat presidency to bring frightened Americans through an economic meltdown when so many lost so much. Presidents have to deal with crises and talk us through them and sometimes they connect us and rally us, and sometimes they don't.
Gas lines and stagflation were among Jimmy Carter's crises. He tried to use Roosevelt's fireplace, it didn't work.
When the space shuttle Challenger exploded, Ronald Reagan began the healer in chief. From the Oval Office he said, we will keep going and we will never forget those astronauts as they waved good-bye.
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT: And slipped the surly bonds of earth to touch the face of God.
SESNO: This president has more than his share of crises to confront and communicate. After 9/11 when he went to Ground Zero.
BUSH: And the people who knocked these buildings down will hear all of us soon. SESNO: After Hurricane Katrina when he went to New Orleans.
BUSH: And this great city will rise again.
SESNO: Today his handling of both Iraq and New Orleans are judged harshly, and neither war has been won and both have been far more costly than imagined and the job approval numbers are dismal. As the financial system nearly collapsed, the president kept a lower profile, was slower out of the gate and first just a statement from the Rose Garden.
BUSH: This is no time for partisanship and we must join to move urgently-need legislation as quickly as possible.
SESNO: Not likely to reassure a jumpy public or be remembered as soaring politics or prose.
Frank Sesno, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: President Bush will be meeting with John McCain and Barack Obama in a little over an hour in Washington. Looking at their voting records, it is clear that the nation's capital is not a popular stop on the campaign trail. With 412 missed votes in the Senate this year, McCain is in the lead, and Obama is third with 295 missed votes and he is just behind Senator Tim Johnson of South Dakota who has missed 311 votes as he recovers from a stroke-like illness.
Obama's last roll call vote was July 9, McCain's April 8th.
With the country facing a financial crisis, should tomorrow's presidential debate be canceled or should things roll forward as planned? You chimed in and CNN's Internet correspondent Veronica De La Cruz joins us now from New York with your I-Reports. Veronica?
VERONICA DE LA CRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, well, some people are supporting McCain's decision to cancel this debate but others do think Barack Obama is right, that the debate should continue on as planned.
Let's go on and start with James Johnson in Myrtle Beach. He aggress with John McCain. "Presidents must defend those of us that can't have our voices heard. To be a strong member of Congress and ignore a vote to save our economy is on the verge of treason. Go to Washington, Obama, be part of the solution or admit that you are part of the problem. A debate can be held next week when our economy has been addressed."
But Len Parks in Stark Ridge, Georgia completely disagrees. He says, McCain's cost him a vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My thoughts on this? Why can you not do both? You got Barack Obama, he is talking to leaders in Congress, talking on the phone, doing conference calls and they have cell phones and Blackberries and think they this is a political theater and grandstanding and people should look at it. This is the real John McCain. He is not putting country first. Here is putting his campaign first. This is the political ploy, and a political game, and he knows it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DE LA CRUZ: That was actually Mike Nanzano (ph) who is a registered Republican, and Jeff Calver (ph) doesn't believe that the activities are presidential and he agrees with Mike and he says real leadership requires making an intelligent decision that it is great that Obama can do two things at once, I believe that the economic crisis requires a full dedication of the time. One cannot stump on campaign trail and fly all over the country and make speeches and TV appearances and also help solve this issue.
So back to Len Parks, let's try to get back to him, he disagrees and he says will not be voting for McCain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN WOODLOCK, IREPORTER: Isn't Sarah Palin available for the debate to go against Barack Obama? Isn't that what a vice president is supposed to be for, to fill in when the president is otherwise engaged? How about it, Sarah? Are you ready for the big leagues?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DE LA CRUZ: That was John Woodlock there and he thinks that he has the solution to the problem. Why not just send a surrogate? So we are asking you, what do you think about this issue, and go ahead to logon to ireport.com and let us know. Kyra?
PHILLIPS: All right. Veronica De La Cruz. Thanks.
Israel decides to live and let sing. Paul McCartney is finally playing Tel Aviv, 43 years after the bad boy Beatles were banned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, serious girl power going on in New York. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is meeting with other power. Women. So maybe not girl, but women power. So let's get that straight. State Department correspondent Zane Verjee, and that sounds better, right? With whom did Rice meet?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, exactly. There are more world leaders that are women than ever before. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice met with about 50 female leaders and four of whom were the heads of state. She met with the president of the Chile, and the president of the Philippines and the president of Liberia as well, and essentially said that women were a force to be reckoned with in the world today. Here is what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: You have been pivotal in our efforts to stop traffickers who prey on innocent women and children. You have been critical to our work to highlight the need for women to have access to education. And you have been instrumental in fighting to ensure that all women are empowered and that the glass ceilings are shattered whether here at the United Nations or in our respective countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VERJEE: I spoke to a woman who was present at the meeting that was not - that had no access for press to be there and she said that one of the most striking things that was said is that one minister got up and said, everyone is talking about the future rising powers and China and India, but actually the rising powers, that, she said, were women. The other thing they focused on was really addressing the issue of violence against women and girls worldwide, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: I'm curious, did anyone say, hey, you should be running for president or vice president? What's the deal?
VERJEE: Yes, actually, the president of Finland said, I am happy to be here, but I just want to tell you Condi Rice, I am the president now and I used to be the foreign minister and maybe it is a path that you should consider. You know. So they had a good laugh over that. But there are so many women political figures and Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin, Tzipi Livni may be the next and there is also Kyra Phillips and by the way, Kyra, most of the secretary state's, Secretary Rice's press corps are all women, and we like to call ourselves the diplo-babes. So that's our own little thing.
PHILLIPS: And we cannot forget that behind every good man is an even better woman. Right? Now, Zain, you were not the only one wearing a sharp suit, I noticed.
VERJEE: Yes, in is a conversation among the diplo-babes too. Secretary Rice wore a turquoise blue, an electric blue, and it was something that we never have seen her in before, so it was a subject of some conversations.
PHILLIPS: State Department correspondent-slash-diplo-babe Zain Verjee ...
VERJEE: Following the important things, designer outfits.
PHILLIPS: Exactly.
Hey, it is all part of what makes a woman. All right, Zain. We already know that the brains are there.
Yesterday, they wanted him to stay away, but, Paul McCartney got to play. Israel finally said OK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, he is not 23 anymore and heck, he is not 64 anymore, so Israeli officials must have figured it was finally safe to unleash Paul McCartney on the masses. CNN's Paula Hancocks explains from Tel Aviv.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now the swinging '60s somewhat bypassed Israel the first time 'round but this time, it is here. Belated Beatlemania 43 years after the Beatles were banned. Now, back in 1965, at the height of Beatlemania, at the height of pictures of young female fans found screaming and fainting in front of stages and Israel deciding to ban the group saying it is no artistic merit, and could also be a corruptive influence on its youth. But here we are 43 years later, and between 40,000 to 50,000 people all coming here to watch this Paul McCartney historical event. Many of them I spoke to actually remembered back in 1965 when it was banned. They are very excited to be here now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is one of the situations that we were looking for music and not for wars. So, we now have so many people coming here and you can see how the people react to music.
HANCOCKS: But of course even now this concert is not without its controversy. Now, there are reports that there was a death threat against Sir Paul McCartney and there have been calls by some Arabs that Sir Paul McCartney should boycott the event simply because it is being held in Israel and he could be perceived as being pro Israeli that he was careful not to play favorites.
He said on Wednesday he went into the West Bank and went to Bethlehem and surprised a very bemused group of schoolchildren at a music school to lend support there. He also went to the Church of the Nativity, and this concert is called friendship first so he is very keen to point out that he is here in a nonpolitical way and he is here in peaceful way to hope he can do his little bit and the music can bring people together.
Paula Hancocks, CNN, Tel Aviv.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: We want to wrap up the hour by telling you about a brainstorming idea that we have been talking about today, cost cutting by tube tying. A Louisiana state lawmaker thinks that paying people not to parent could be a win-win way to shrink welfare spending. The story has been quite a talker around Louisiana. Also in the NEWSROOM it was a talker around the table around our team's morning meeting.
Well, it sparked such a hot debate, that we booked the state rep as a guest and talked to him last hour, and as you can imagine, this interview inspired a lot of us to talk about it in more depth and a lot of you started to write us here in the NEWSROOM, and the producers have been reading all of the e-mails and actually getting some right now actually, and folks that have been watching want us to rerun the entire interview tomorrow. So we are going to do that. We are going to read some of your comments. Here is one that came from Colleen. "I wish you would have thought to ask the 'gentleman,'" in quotes, "from Louisiana what he meant by these people when he was speaking about be paid for tubal ligations. Well, you were probably in as much shock as I was, because I truly didn't realize there were any pointy-headed drooling creatures like that left in the United States."
As you can imagine we've been getting a lot of e-mails about this. We are going to rerun the interview tomorrow, and read more of your e-mails. In the meantime, Rick Sanchez will take it from here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
