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Palin Calls for Alaska Senator to Step Down; 'Safe Haven' Abuse in Nebraska?; Child Prostitution Arrests; Congressman Kucinich Slams U.S. Attack in Syria
Aired October 28, 2008 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Coming at you now: another McCain-Palin conflict, and this has nothing to do with who bought her clothes. This is bigger. It is about a corrupt senator. He says, Ted Stevens should resign. She doesn't.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Governor, should Stevens resign?
SANCHEZ: No answer?
Barack Obama, socialist?
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You know something, my friends? We have learned more about Senator Obama's real goals for our country over the last two weeks than we learned over the past two years. And that is only because Joe the plumber asked him a question in Ohio.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
SANCHEZ: We will replay that Obama and Joe the plumber moment. You watch. You decide.
A Georgia mother abandons her son in Nebraska, and it is legal. Should a parent be allowed to do that?
And, no fan of George Bush, this congressman calls the U.S. attack in Syria political -- quote -- "manipulation of security issues to influence public opinion." Is that a fair criticism or just plain un-American? You decide. You tell us.
And we will listen on Twitter, Facebook, and more.
Like nowhere else, your newscast begins now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
As we begin this newscast, I should let you know, to be totally transparent, that my producers are talking to me and telling me that there might be a development in this very story that I am about to bring you. But let's get started with the facts, just to catch you up. Ted Stevens, as you know, one of the longest-serving senators in U.S. history, representing Alaska, he is now corrupt Ted Stevens, found so yesterday by a jury of his peers on all counts, that he was actually receiving gifts from an oil executive to the tune of $250,000.
Yet, he is staying in office. And the governor, at least up to now, as we have known is not asking him to resign. There may be an update on that story.
Let's start now by showing you part of the investigation. You are going to be looking at here a secretly recorded wiretap of Ted Stevens talking to Bill Allen from VECO, who was the oil executive in question. Here it is.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SEN. TED STEVENS (R), ALASKA: These guys can't really hurt us. You know, they are not going the shoot us. It is not Iraq. So, what the hell. The worst that can happen to us is, we run up a bunch of legal fees and might lose and we might have to pay a fine, might have to serve a little time in jail. I hope to Christ it never gets to that, but -- and I don't think it will.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So, did that wiretap prove that he knew what he's doing was -- what he was doing was wrong? It seems the jury agreed with that. What is his reaction now?
Let's go ahead to put up this pilot. I will read it to you.
This is the reaction from Ted Stevens: "I will fight this unjust verdict with every ounce of energy that I have."
And there was a statement from John McCain just a while ago. Here it is: "It is clear that Senator Stevens has broken his trust with the people, and that he should now step down."
However -- and here is where the disconnect is -- Sarah Palin has been asked the same question, and she has had a different reaction. I believe we have that sound. Let's go to that now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R-AK), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's a sad day for Alaska and a sad day for Senator Stevens and for his family. The verdict shines a light, though, on the corrupting influence of the big oil service company up there in Alaska that was allowed to control too much of our state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And then she is asked again by several reporters, "Are you asking him to resign?" she does not respond. She walks away -- a different comment than what John McCain has said. Now, here is the update. Just moments ago, literally seconds as we were getting ready to go on the air, my producer told me that we have now been able to confirm here at CNN that Sarah Palin is also asking him to resign.
I am going to read you the information that was sent to me by my producer moments ago. She sent me this e-mail and I'm going to you the e-mail. Go ahead, William, if you want to shoot it over the shoulder. By the way, I am looking at this for the first time. So, read along with me here.
This is a paper statement as it's being described calling for Stevens to resign from Sarah Palin. This is brand-new information.
"After being found guilty of seven felony counts, I had hoped Senator Stevens would take the opportunity to do the statesman-like thing and erase the cloud that is covering his Senate seat. He has not done so. Alaskans are grateful for his decades of public service, but the time has come for him to be step aside. Even if elected on Tuesday" -- and, by the way, I should add, that the race is tied -- "Senator Stevens should step aside to allow a special election to give Alaskans a real choice of who will serve them in Congress" -- so, there, again, Governor Sarah Palin.
Originally, Sarah Palin had not reported or said that she wanted him to step aside. John McCain had. That was the disconnect that we were reporting. But now we're getting information, as you see that I just read to you, that, in fact, Sarah Palin is saying that Senator Stevens should resign.
And there is more to the story. In fact, part of the story now involves what Senator Stevens will be able to keep, among other things, his job -- he is still in fact as we work through this in a heated campaign that is all but tied right now for his seat -- and his entire pension.
This is a special report that has been put together for us by our own investigative reporter, Drew Griffin, who has put this together.
Give us the headline on this story, if you would, Drew.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the headline is, even if he goes to prison, while he sits in a jail cell, you and I will be paying this man's pension.
SANCHEZ: Despite him being found guilty.
Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN (voice-over): It passed with big fanfare, part of the sweeping new ethics changes Democrats were promising in Congress.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Our first order of business is passing the toughest congressional ethics reform in history.
GRIFFIN: But even then, the bill's author knew what had just passed was weak.
REP. NANCY BOYDA (D), KANSAS: It is not perfect, but it's a good first start.
GRIFFIN: Now we are finding out it wasn't much of a start at all. Senator Ted Stevens, convicted on seven counts of making false statements relating to hundreds of thousands of dollars in gifts from wealthy friends, will, according to the National Taxpayers Union, get a congressional pension in an amount most of us can only dream of.
PETE SEPP, NATIONAL TAXPAYERS UNION: The wages of sin are pretty good in Congress. And Senator Stevens case, it is $122,000 a year to start, and it will keep going up with the cost of living after that. He will be well taken care of in whatever life he chooses to have after Congress or whatever life the court chooses to give him after Congress.
GRIFFIN: It turns out Stevens never would have been affected by the new ethics bill. It was passed after he committed his crimes. But guess what? Even if he committed those same crimes today, the new ethics law couldn't touch him.
Why? The law heralded by Congress only covers 10 specific felonies, including bribery, fraud, and racketeering. In the case of Senator Stevens, lying about gifts from wealthy government contractors is not among them.
SEPP: All too many times, lawmakers want to make ethics reforms that don't actually change a lot, but give the appearance that they are making change. That is the case with this pensions for felons provision. They wanted to show the American people they were getting tough, without actually doing it. The problem is, the very first test of the new law has been a failure.
GRIFFIN: Should Stevens retire and begin collecting his pension, he will join at least 20 others who have been convicted an collected, including former Congressman Randall "Duke" Cunningham, guilty of accepting more than $2 million in bribes, and collecting a congressional pension of an estimated $64,000 a year, Congressman James Traficant, convicted of bribery and tax evasion, getting an estimated $40,000 a year, Dan Rostenkowski, former chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, convicted of mail fraud and collecting an estimated $126,000 a year.
Now convicted Senator Ted Stevens, should he choose to retire, will collect an annual pension estimated at $122,000 a year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: Congresswoman Nancy Boyda, who did push this law through Congress, even though she admits it was just a start, gave us a statement last night, saying: "Officials who violate public trust should not benefit from a public pension. It is unfortunate my legislation was enacted too late to apply to Mr. Stevens' offenses, but I urge him," Rick, "to voluntarily forfeit his congressional pension."
SANCHEZ: You know what comes to people's minds who are watching this newscast right now as they watch your report? I almost can guarantee you they are thinking the word hypocrisy, because these are the same guys who have passed so many pieces of legislation, like three strikes and you are out, that really go after felons of any kind.
And, yet, when the shoe is put on their feet, they don't hold themselves to the fire. Doesn't it seem that way?
GRIFFIN: Yes. It is part of our, you know, "Keeping Them Honest" -- I don't want to overuse that, but "Keeping Them Honest" series on "ANDERSON COOPER" is so great, because we point out all these hypocrisies.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
GRIFFIN: Think of all the laws they make for us that do not apply to them.
SANCHEZ: Interesting point. We will stay on it.
Thanks so much. Great work, as usual, Drew. We appreciate it.
By the way, we are going to be hooking up with a journalist who covers the news for the main Alaska newspaper. She's going to be joining us on the phone. And what she is going to be talking about is this decision I shared with you just moments ago, this breaking news story that Sarah Palin has now -- I don't know if it would be fair to say she has changed her mind, but she has changed her position when it comes to Ted Stevens.
She had earlier not said that she wanted him to step down. Now she is putting out an official statement, after John McCain put has on a statement saying he wants Ted Stevens to resign. So, we are going to work our way through this. We're going to be joined by an expert on the political situation in Alaska. She will be joining us in just a little bit.
Stay with us. We will have this and we will flush it out as we go.
I'm Rick Sanchez.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. Let's work our way through this story for you. First of all, Sarah Palin was asked yesterday when the Ted Stevens conviction came down about what she was going to do. She had a different reaction than she is saying today.
The news now is -- and, again, this information just into us as we were beginning the newscast -- and you heard me share with -- it is that she is now saying that he should -- quote -- "step aside."
This is what Sarah Palin said yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: I am confident that Senator Stevens from this point on will do the right thing for the state of Alaska.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Should Stevens resign? Governor, should Stevens resign?
PALIN: Thank you, guys. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You hear the reporters shouting out the questions: Should Stevens resign? Should Stevens resign?
One of the reporters who has been asking Sarah Palin lots of questions over the years is Erika Bolstad. She is a political beat reporter with "The Anchorage Daily News."
What do you make of this? We have been going with the story that Sarah Palin and John McCain were saying two different things, because they were. And I think everyone saw it right there in that news conference that she held yesterday, that impromptu news conference. And now we're getting information, which we have confirmed here at CNN, that she is asking him to step aside. What gives?
ERIKA BOLSTAD, "ANCHORAGE DAILY NEWS": Well, I don't actually think that her explanation is all that different, if you think about it.
She has been -- from the beginning of the investigation, this corruption investigation, she has actually been one of the people in Alaska who has been calling on Senator Stevens to answer questions, to answer questions about what has been going on, until he was actually indicted.
SANCHEZ: I guess what I am asking you is, as a political reporter, who has I imagine a lot of keen savvy into these kinds of things, would you not have expected that, yesterday, as soon as this happened, John McCain and Sarah Palin would have been on the same page, would have talked about this, or their staff members would have talked to each other, and said, this is what we are going to say, instead of two different responses?
BOLSTAD: I don't actually think that their responses were all that much different.
And John McCain didn't come out with his response until this morning. And, yesterday, hers was fairly qualified and it was not nearly as friendly or as nice as some of the other ones that came out of the elected officials in Alaska.
SANCHEZ: But she is asked, though, Erika, she is asked by reporters, should he resign; should he resign; should he resign? And she doesn't answer the question and she walks away.
BOLSTAD: She should have answered the question.
SANCHEZ: That doesn't sound definitive.
BOLSTAD: No, she should have answered the question. And that, I the, has been a consistent criticism of her on the campaign trail, but she should have definitely answered that question yesterday.
SANCHEZ: All right, let me ask you this, what gives? Down here in the lower 48, we're trying to figure out what -- in most states and in states where I have lived, here is how it works. A corrupt official is removed from office by a governor. Then that governor appoints a replacement. And then they hold a special election. That is usually the way it works. What is going on in Alaska?
BOLSTAD: Well, it is pretty complicated. And there's actually -- there's no rule that someone who is convicted of a felony can't serve in office.
And one of the biggest judges of what will actually happen here is, the electorate in Alaska, they get to decide on Tuesday who they want in this seat.
SANCHEZ: Boy, here is a crazy question, but only because we have some crazy producers who were having a conversation with me before I was on the air, and we were talking about this. Is it possible by Alaska law that, if for some reason Sarah Palin doesn't become our next vice president, she could appoint herself the next senator in that place?
BOLSTAD: Oh. Here is what actually has to happen, is, if he is elected, then the Senate would have to act first. The Senate would actually have to decide that they want to expel him from the Senate. So, that is the first thing that has to happen.
SANCHEZ: But could she do that? Does the governor have the power to replace or appoint, and, if that were so, could she appoint herself?
BOLSTAD: Well, the way that it works is that there is a special election in 60 to 90 days. And there's some question whether the governor has the ability to appoint someone as sort of a seat-warmer in that 60 to 90 days. And then there is a special election. And the most likely scenario would be that she would possibly consider running for that seat.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
Things get curiouser and curiouser, don't they?
BOLSTAD: Yes.
SANCHEZ: To quote Yogi Berra.
Hey, thanks so much. You have been a great guest. BOLSTAD: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Erika Bolstad with "The Anchorage Daily News."
By the way, in case you came to us late, the story is that Sarah Palin has now put out a statement, and CNN has confirmed, that she is going to ask Ted Stevens to step aside.
We're following up on a story we told you about earlier about McCain staffers as well firing back again on the clothing controversy. We will have that story when we come back.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right. I welcome you back.
And, look, there's good news. The Dow is up 506. Oh, look, 507. When was the last time you saw a number that big with a plus in front of it when we were talking about the Dow? Hopefully, it will stay there, or maybe even go up further.
We will watch it for you, and let you know.
Lots of comments to what we are talking about right now. We welcome you back.
Let's go.
William, over to Kelli Fall over here. She wrote to us just a little while ago. And she says: "That is absolutely sick and disgusting," referring to Drew Griffin's report moments ago. "Stevens should be penniless and in jail. This is why we Americans have absolutely zero faith in our elected officials. Unbelievable."
And then L12ega. Is that right? Let's go over to Twitter, William, if we could. We have got another one coming up over here. Let me show you this one.
What she wants you to know is that Rick Sanchez made a mistake. So, allow me to correct myself. When I referred to curiouser and curiouser being from Yogi Berra, I was wrong. It's actually from "Alice in Wonderland."
I stand corrected. And I thank you.
Now this. We did not expect to be talking about this story today, Sarah Palin and the clothing controversy. Last week, revelations that Palin, who calls herself just an ordinary hockey mom and refers to Joe Six-Pack, had received $150,000 worth of clothing from Saks and Neiman Marcus, was a story, a legitimate story, this week, not so much.
But then Palin reintroduced the topic during her stump speeches this weekend. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: Those clothes, they are not my property. Just like the lighting and the staging that everything else that the RNC purchased, I'm not taking them with me. I'm back to wearing my own clothes from my favorite consignment shop in Anchorage, Alaska.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And, yesterday, we heard from a McCain loyalist -- pardon me -- a Palin loyalist -- I misspoke -- during this hour who blamed the McCain campaign for Palin's plummeting numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADAM BRICKLEY, BLOGGER: We are talking about all of these, you know, staffers that were brought in, supposedly old Bush staffers, to help run her. And, you know, I don't think they did the campaign much good at all. And I am happy to see her back on message and we can get back to where we were right after the RNC.
SANCHEZ: You think they have sabotaged her?
BRICKLEY: I don't think they have sabotaged her, but we are talking about a different kind of candidate now and we need to run a different type of campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So, who is responsible for the clothing fiasco? This from McCain adviser Nicolle Wallace to CNN, who some, by the way, have accused of buying the clothing -- quote -- "It is incorrect that I purchased clothes for her, incorrect that anything was charged to my credit card. And the campaign has made no secret that items were purchased and made available for Sarah and Todd Palin and their five kids."
That is from a McCain staffer. By the way, that is where that story that we thought would go away last week stands today.
By the way, there is also this story. Listen to her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TYSHEEMA BROWN, MOTHER: I have done my all. I love my son, and my son knows that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is the story of a mother who had to abandon her son legally in Nebraska, the only place you can do that, by the way, legally. Her story is coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: Sometimes, intent and reality don't exactly converge.
Take the case of Nebraska. They passed a law called a safe haven law. The intent of the law was for mothers who had unwanted babies and didn't want to do them any harm, they could just take them to a hospital, leave them there, and the state would take care of those small children or babies.
But the law actually was written in such a way, so that it said anyone under the age of 18. And now parents throughout Nebraska and from different parts of the country are taking their children to Nebraska, driving them there or flying them there, and dropping them off, abandoning kids as old as 15, 16, and in the case you are about to see here by reporter John Bachman of WSB 12.
Watch this story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: There is just no help. There hasn't been any help. They don't care.
JOHN BACHMAN, WSB REPORTER: Tysheema Brown says she tried everything, says she could not get any help dealing with her 12-year- old son, who was on probation in the juvenile justice system and headed to jail. She says, Friday, she told his probation officer she was taking her son to Nebraska and leaving him at a hospital under that state's safe haven law.
BROWN: I had to do something that was hard of a parent that could even possibly do, think about getting in a car with her child and taking him hours and hours away to another state, and leaving him, just so I can get some help for my child.
BACHMAN: Brown grew up in Nebraska. She says that state helped her mother with her five children. Brown is convinced the state of Nebraska would take better care of her son than Georgia's system.
But it appears her plan backfired. She says, Tuesday, a DFACS worker will go back to Nebraska to bring her son back and put him into foster care.
BROWN: That's not going to help my son.
BACHMAN: Monday, a DFACS worker visited Brown's apartment to talk with her 7-year-old daughter. Brown is due in court Wednesday on a custody hearing for her son.
BROWN: Do not judge me as a parent. I have done my all. I love my son. And my son knows that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It is our viewer quick vote today, by the way. Should a parent, like this parent, be allowed to abandon a child if they simply cannot can't the child? We want you to call this number for us, 1-800-655-5415, 1-800- 655-5415. Or you can text us your answer, yes or no, at 71310, 71310. Remember, standard texting rates do apply.
When we come back, the latest on a child prostitution ring. The numbers are out of this world. As many as 47 children, children, were a part of this prostitution ring. We will break it down for you.
We will be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: The mood of the populace is angry. As a matter of fact, we've been getting so many comments from so many of you about this Ted Stevens' story, that we began our newscast with.
Let's go to one now, William, if we can. This is on MySpace. I want to show it to you as he brings the camera around over there and you'll see: "I hope that Ted Stevens resigns and gets the harshest penalty for what he has done. It is inexcusable for a politician to do this. It's like we, the common people, get thrown to the wolves while the guys on the Hill get a slap on the wrist."
We'll continue having conversations with you throughout this newscast and continue bringing you updates on that story.
Here's another one. This is one that will seem to you as something as outlandish as perhaps anything you've heard in an awful long time. It's a prostitution bust -- a prostitution ring that has been busted up by the FBI. We've got some pictures. In fact, I want to share them with you now. Let's go ahead and put those up if we can, Dan.
This is the video that we have gotten in that actually shows the FBI. Now, a lot of the faces here are protected, of kids. And so you can't see the victims in this case. Why? Because 47 of them were children -- 47. It happened in 29 cities. Seventy-three pimps arrested. Five hundred and eighteen adult prostitutes taken down.
These are remarkable numbers. This is as big a bust, at least in terms of prostitution as we, perhaps, have ever reported. I can't remember reporting anything quite as significant.
Mike Brooks joins us now, our law enforcement analyst, to put this in perspective for us -- have you?
MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, this was Operation Cross Country II, Rick. Last June, they had another initiative. They called it the Innocence Lost Initiative, where they arrested maybe half of the numbers that they did. But it's unbelievable.
But the headline here is, Rick, the 47 children that were rescued during this operation...
SANCHEZ: Yes? BROOKS: ...in 29 cities...
SANCHEZ: Yes, yes.
BROOKS: Forty-seven children between the ages of 13 and 17. And, Rick, 10 of these kids were on the list -- on the database for the National Center for Exploited and Missing Children as missing.
You know, pimps -- I can tell you, when I was in a young officer in D.C. , I worked -- I was detailed to prostitution and perversion. They take young faces right out of the academy and put them on the street to try to combat prostitution. And we'd go around to bus stations. It's amazing the number of runaways and kids...
SANCHEZ: Is that where it's coming from, because most people are looking at this and going how is it possible that 47 children can be unaccounted for, period?
BROOKS: Yes. Oh...
SANCHEZ: Even beyond the fact that they're in prostitution, how did they get lost to begin with?
BROOKS: Well, the number of children to go missing every year -- it's thousands, Rick. It's unbelievable. But for 47 to be rescued in this particular operation is significant, because they are between the ages of 13 and 17. These are children, babies. And a lot of times, you get kids who are -- you know, they're not happy with their parents, they'll run away. And pimps will go hang out at the bus station. They'll see kids them by themselves...
SANCHEZ: They recruit them, then.
BROOKS: They recruit them.
SANCHEZ: They (INAUDIBLE)...
BROOKS: It's a hearts and minds campaign, if you will. They'll take them under their wing and then they'll start having sex with them and then turn them out, because they'll say you owe me because I took care of you. And that's -- and that's the whole thing.
SANCHEZ: Is there a...
BROOKS: I mean pimping is disgusting.
SANCHEZ: Is there a law -- I know we were going to talk about something else, but let's just stay with this.
BROOKS: Yes?
SANCHEZ: Is there a law that can be possibly hard enough that we could come up to stop these people from doing something like this?
BROOKS: Well, you know, if you look at -- if you look at the sentences from -- that have happened so far, Rick, 265 indictments. They have 46 criminal enterprises disrupted, over 36 successfully dismantled. And they are substantially -- the pimps...
SANCHEZ: Wow!
BROOKS: ...are serving life sentences and from 40 to 50 years.
SANCHEZ: Well, good.
BROOKS: So -- and that's what it takes.
SANCHEZ: Good.
BROOKS: And I just want to point out, there are 28 of these Innocence Lost task forces operating every single with local, state and federal law enforcement throughout the country.
SANCHEZ: Anything you get on them, let us know...
BROOKS: Oh, absolutely.
SANCHEZ: ...because I think this is the kind of story that we want to report all the time...
BROOKS: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: Particularly (INAUDIBLE).
BROOKS: It's a good story and these guys need to serve some heavy time.
SANCHEZ: Mike Brooks, thanks a lot.
BROOKS: Thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: We certainly appreciate it.
Hey, you know what? There's good news on the markets today. Susan Lisovicz is standing by. She's going to let us know what's go on.
When was the last time you saw a big number like 500 with a plus in front of it on your end down there on Wall Street?
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, actually, Rick, you know, it's been so volatile. It only happened about two weeks ago, when we had the biggest point gain of all time for the Dow and that was the 900 point gain. But if we closed at this level right now, it would be the second biggest. That's the kind of wacky month it's been -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: Wacky is a good word for this. And we thank you for using that. As my old English professor in college would say, at The University of Minnesota, GWC -- "good word choice."
The "Joe the Plumber" controversy with Barack Obama -- does the conversation that Barack Obama had with "Joe the Plumber" intimate that he is a socialist? It is the big talking point on the blogosphere. So we are going to let you hear the entire -- or at least the salient parts -- of the conversation between Obama and "Joe the Plumber." It's going to be coming up next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
There's a good shot of some of the folks who are putting our news together for us, working diligently.
Now let's go over to our Twitter board, because BenBowman just wrote to us. And here's what BenBowman says. The good BenBowman says: "If I hear the name 'Joe the Plumber' one more time, I might jump off of a cliff."
Well, Ben, get ready, because here we go. John McCain on his stump speech once again intimating that "Joe the Plumber" has proven what Barack Obama really is.
Here's John McCain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: We have learned more about Senator Obama's real goals for our country over the last two weeks than we've learned over the past two years. And that's only because "Joe the Plumber" asked him a question in Ohio.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right, so here's the question -- what actually happened in that exchange between "Joe the Plumber" and Barack Obama.
To my right, Jade. To my left, Maru. Here they are -- the two of them getting ready to tackle this issue. The three of us will bring it to you, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back.
We wondered if we were coming back there for a while.
All right, let's introduce the panel once again. Jade Morey is a McCain supporter. And Maru Gonzales, as you know, is a Barack Obama supporter.
We thank both of you for being with us.
Now let's get into it. Here we go. The intimation by many in the McCain campaign, as you just heard by John McCain just moments ago, is that it was "Joe the Plumber" who actually revealed what Barack Obama really is -- anything from someone who leans too far to the left to actually being a socialist.
Now, you are going to be able to decide. We're going to show you the exchange between Barack Obama and "Joe the Plumber." Remember what John McCain said and see if it fits that example.
Let's watch it together.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM HOLLAND, OHIO, OCTOBER 12)
(CROSSTALK)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Go ahead.
JOE WURZELBACHER, "JOE THE PLUMBER": Barack, do you believe in the American dream?
OBAMA: Yes, I do.
OK, (INAUDIBLE)...
OBAMA: Hold on one second. Let me (INAUDIBLE) and I promise I'll answer your question.
WURZELBACHER: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
OBAMA: All right. OK, guys.
Yes, sir what's your name?
WURZELBACHER: My name is Joe Wurzelbacher.
OBAMA: Good to see you, Joe.
WURZELBACHER: I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes $200,000 -- about $250,000, $270,000, $280,000 a year.
OBAMA: All right.
WURZELBACHER: Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?
OBAMA: Well, here's what's going to happen. The -- if you're a small business, which you would qualify...
WURZELBACHER: Yes.
OBAMA: ...first of all, you'd get a 50 percent tax credit. So you'd get a cut of taxes for your health care costs. You would actually get a tax cut on that front.
If your revenue is above $250,000, then from the $250 down, your tax is going to stay the same. But it's true that for, say, $250,000 up -- from $250,000 to $300,000 or so...
WURZELBACHER: Well, here's my question.
(CROSSTALK)
OBAMA: Hold on a second. I just want to answer your question.
WURZELBACHER: OK.
OBAMA: So, the -- so for that additional amount, you'd go from 36 to 39 percent, which is what it was under Bill Clinton.
Nobody likes high taxes, right?
WURZELBACHER: No.
OBAMA: Right. Of course not. But what's happened is, is that we end up -- we've cut taxes a lot for folks like me, who make a lot more than $250,000. We haven't given a break to folks who make less. And, as a consequence, the average wage and income for just ordinary folks -- the vast majority of Americans -- has actually gone down over the last eight years.
So all I want to do is -- I've got a net tax cut. The only thing that changes here, I'm going to cut taxes a little bit more for the folks who are most in need. And well -- sort of the 5 percent of the folks who are doing very well -- even though they've been working hard. And I understand that and I appreciate that. I just want to make sure that they're paying a little bit more in order to pay for those other tax cuts.
Now, I respect the disagreement
WURZELBACHER: (INAUDIBLE).
OBAMA: ...but I just want you to be clear, it's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've a chance at success, too. My attitude is that if the economy is good for the folks bottom up, it's going to be good for everybody.
If you've got a plumbing business, you're going to be better off if you've got a whole bunch of customers who can afford to hire you. And right now, everybody is so pinched, that business is bad for everybody. And I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody.
But, listen, I respect what you do and I respect your question. And the -- you know, even if I don't get your vote, I'm still going to be working hard on your behalf, because I want to make sure -- small businesses are what create jobs in this country and I want to encourage them.
All right.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: That was the moment by which much of the campaign -- the McCain campaign -- is now based.
Jade, let me bring you in here. Did he reveal himself in that exchange? And, if so, how and what?
JADE MOREY, MCCAIN SUPPORTER: Well, he admitted in the exchange that, yes, I am going to raise your taxes because you do make between that, although you are a small business owner. So, on the one hand, he's saying I'm going to help small business owners. But then he just told the guy, yes, I am going to cut your taxes -- yes, I am going to raise your taxes.
SANCHEZ: But does it take to the point where we hear and we read on the right-wing blogs, this is what revealed him to be an either too far left-leaning liberal or an even socialist -- some have even said communist.
MOREY: Yes, because he's been doing this for years now. He's used that phrase, "spread the wealth," as far back as 2001 we have on record. He's been saying that.
SANCHEZ: So the fear is that as a liberal or as a socialist, that he's actually going to tax and take government control of things.
Is that what we're looking at here?
MOREY: He just told a potential small business owner that, yes, I'm going to tax you more to give it to those that make less.
SANCHEZ: And that's the definition.
Maru, time for you.
MARU GONZALEZ, OBAMA SUPPORTER: Look, I think, you know, Jade is stealing her talking points from Sean Hannity. The fact is, that our tax system is based on a progressive structure. So any time the government taxes the citizens to build infrastructure, to improve schools, they're spreading the wealth. Colin Powell said the other thing the other day.
John McCain also supports a progressive tax structure, so by his standards, he is a socialist, as well. His hero, Teddy Roosevelt, was one of the biggest proponents of the progressive tax structure. And I doubt John McCain would ever refer to him as a socialist.
So I think this is nothing more than modern day McCarthyism. I think he's throwing in the kitchen sink because he has nothing else to run on.
SANCHEZ: Let me let you respond to that. You have about 15 seconds. Go ahead, Jade.
MOREY: Nobody said that McCain doesn't support the progressive tax system, but Obama wants to make it much more than that -- than it already is. SANCHEZ: A quick question, yes or no -- do you believe Barack Obama is a socialist?
MOREY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: OK.
We're going to come right back in just a moment with more on -- with Jade and Maru.
But first, let me check in with Glenda Umana, who is checking on some things for us now having to do with ads in the political campaign.
We've been hearing about Spanish ads being released all over the country. And you're telling us now, there's a new batch being released.
Is that right?
GLENDA UMANA, CNN EN ESPANOL: Yes. Buenos tardes, Rick.
This morning, somebody asked me, are the Hispanics going to vote for McCain or Obama?
As the rest of you (INAUDIBLE) citizens of Hispanic (INAUDIBLE) are divided in their vote. And some, Rick, are still undecided.
Now, this is a new ad from Barack Obama called "The American Dream" en Espanol. It's in Spanish. The Democratic candidate saying that if people want to continue with the American dream, they have to vote for him.
Now, Rick, McCain's commercials in Spanish have a different point of view. They focus on what is the relationship between the United States and Venezuela and what that could look like if Obama wins or if McCain wins -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: I just like when you say Barack Obama.
UMANA: Barack Obama.
SANCHEZ: Barack Obama. I love that.
Thank you so much. Glenda Umana with some new information there.
By the way, a couple of things we want to look at as we go to break.
First of all, the Dow. Remember we said a little while ago it was at 500. Now it's over six -- oh my god, look at that number. Thank you. It changed. Good -- 663. Much easier to say.
Now let's go over to another story that we're going to be following, this having to do with an attack on the United States in Syria. We're going to be joined by Dennis Kucinich in just a little bit,, who has some less than kind things to say about this regarding the U.S. president.
We'll break that all down for you, not that it's unexpected from Congressman Kucinich.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Yes. I know, we asked you to send us messages. I've been checking the Twitter board, as well as MySpace and Facebook. And lots of you have been checking in with us. And we're going to try and get to those in just a minute.
But first, take a look at this video. It is over Syria -- several miles into Syria. The story continues to be controversial. Four U.S. helicopters, according to the Syrians, who say this helicopter filed an attack into Syrian air space and territory, killing eight people. The Syrians say four of them were children.
The U.S., on the other hand, is saying no, that is not true, what the Syrians are saying. The U.S. military is saying what they did do in this top secret mission was take out a militant who was running guns, money and foreign fighters across the border.
Joining us now is Congressman Dennis Kucinich from Ohio, who has some unkind words about this -- this incident in reference to the Bush administration.
Let me start you off with this question, Congressman, if this is a precision attack taking out a provocateur, isn't that better than the Rumsfeld-style invasions that we've seen that people like you have been so critical of?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D), OHIO: Well, apparently it wasn't a precision attack, because eight innocent people were killed.
My concern...
SANCHEZ: According to the Syrians.
KUCINICH: Well, there are bodies that somebody produced.
I think that we should be concerned that our nation's stand for international law -- and let's look at what's happened here. Iraq and Syria have already been working on security agreements. So what we've done in using Iraq for a platform is we've undermined the Iraq government, which we supported. And we're undermining the Syrian government's attempt to work with Iraq and we're creating further instability in the Middle East...
SANCHEZ: But wait...
KUCINICH: ...on the eve of an election.
SANCHEZ: But let me -- let me just say -- I don't mean to interrupt, I really don't. KUCINICH: Well, go ahead.
It's your (INAUDIBLE) show.
SANCHEZ: And I'm going to cover all this ground. But I just want to go step by step here.
My first question refers to this. I know that you and many others have been critical of the type of invasion that we did in Iraq, which seemed, by many experts...
KUCINICH: Yes. I mean -- I was right about that, by the way.
SANCHEZ: OK -- that got away from us.
So, we have an example of a of a pinprick attack -- a precision attack that may be -- and let's say the Syrians are right and eight other people were killed, but we took out a very important, perhaps, al Qaeda provocateur.
Isn't that better? Don't you agree with that type of military strategy, as opposed to the other type?
KUCINICH: Well, you know, it's like saying well, it's OK that we killed a million people in Iraq as long as we got Saddam Hussein. You have to have a sense of proportion about this stuff. And when innocent people's lives are on the line, you've got to make a judgment. And, you know, somebody needs to say why they did it.
You know, I think that the United States has a right to protect itself. But the war in Iraq has not been about protecting America. It's made us less safe. It's made things less stable in the region. And that's my concern about it.
We want a stronger country. We want a safe country.
SANCHEZ: Let me...
KUCINICH: We weren't safer because we attacked Iraq. We attacked a nation that did not attack us.
SANCHEZ: Point well taken. And I think polls show that many of the people in the United States now agree with that perspective. But we're not talking about Iraq here.
Let me bring you back to the main theme --
KUCINICH: But we are. That's the staging area for the attack.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me bring you back to this main theme and let me bring you back to point that you make. This is from your letter that you issued today, after this attack. You say: We must question the timing. We are on the eve of national elections and we must be mindful of the administration's past manipulation of security issues in order to influence public opinion."
What are you trying to say with that?
KUCINICH: What I'm saying is that there's a week to go to an election. And this -- and going after this particular person -- apparently, they were tracking him all along.
It's elective, OK?
They can determine when they want to go after someone. We have the power to do that. And the fact that we're on the eve of an election, we're violating international law, creating an attack inside another nation, you know, this can create the kind of crises that helps to change the emotional climate of an election.
SANCHEZ: So you're saying this administration would conduct an unnecessary military exercise essentially for political reasons...
KUCINICH: I am saying --
SANCHEZ: ...to help John McCain?
KUCINICH: Yes, I am saying that. You're right.
SANCHEZ: That's what you're saying? You're on the record as saying that.
KUCINICH: I'm saying that they could do that. That's right.
SANCHEZ: Dennis Kucinich, Ohio congressman. Thanks, sir, for taking the time to join us today with your perspective on this.
KUCINICH: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: We're going to come right back with Jade and Maru talking about the clothing controversy.
And guess what? Should we go out with it?
It's a good picture to show. Let's do that. Look at the Dow, up over 700 points. What gives? We'll try and break it down for you.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
Results of our unscientific quick viewer vote that we took a while ago -- should a parent be allowed to abandon a child if they can't handle them?
You called and texted your yes and no answers. Fifty-five percent of you said yes, they should. Forty-five percent of you said, no, they shouldn't. That's remarkably tight.
Jade and Maru with us once again. What do you make of the clothing scandal or controversy that has been taking place in the McCain camp?
McCain staff members have come out and said, look, it's not our fault, we didn't go out and buy the clothes. Loyalists for Sarah Palin are saying, Jade, yes, in fact, it was you who set this up. She didn't want the clothes to begin with.
MOREY: Well, for starters, the RNC is not the John McCain campaign. Let's just get that straight.
You know, I think it's unfair because they went out and they wanted to provide her with some sharp clothing. She's going to be going around the country making these speeches. And at the RNC -- you know, the National Convention, you know, they wanted her to look nice. She's not a millionaire. You know, so they wanted to provide her with some nice clothes. She's...
SANCHEZ: But $150,000?
MOREY: She's not keeping it.
SANCHEZ: $150,000?
MOREY: Because they bought more than she was going to end up wearing in the first place. And that she's even said they're going to take the majority of it back. If they don't take all of it back, then put it up on eBay and give it to charity.
SANCHEZ: Many would argue it's not just the clothing, but it's actually the fact that there's a disconnect with what some McCain staffers are saying and what Sarah Palin's staff is saying.
Is that important, Maru?
GONZALEZ: Oh, I think so. I think what this does is it points out the hypocrisy that is Sarah Palin. She likes to paint herself as a Wal-Mart mom, as, you know, this small town governor. And yet she's spending $150,000 -- not her, but her campaign is spending $150,000 on fancy outfits, $10,000 for her hair. So...
SANCHEZ: We get it.
By the way, take a look at that number. You see that? What is that -- 850 something. 859 as I look at it there. 859 -- Susan Lisovicz, are you there?
Let's go from Jade and Maru to you because there's good news and we all want to hear it.
LISOVICZ: Well, you know, stocks are cheap. That's what happens. It's the worst month, Rick, for the Dow Industrials, the most closely watched index of stocks since the Great Depression, since September of 1931.
Stocks have been knocked down. And one of the primary motives for investing is greed. Stocks are cheap. People are buying. And what's happening is you are going to see the second biggest point gain -- it could even surpass what we saw two weeks ago, if we keep going at this rate in the final seconds of trading -- the biggest point gain, which was just two weeks ago. That's the kind of month it's been -- volatile...
SANCHEZ: And it might...
LISOVICZ: ...to say the least.
SANCHEZ: And it might even have a political impact. Jade and I were just talking moments ago that this might be good for John McCain.
A little...
LISOVICZ: Hey, listen.
SANCHEZ: A little bit of a surge just before the election.
Wolf Blitzer is standing by now to take you into "THE SITUATION ROOM" and probably parts of this very theme.
Wolf, take it away.
