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Early Voting System Takes Off Across The Nation
Aired October 31, 2008 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: More than a dozen candidates and 600 days are now behind us. We're down to the final four. Election '08 -- The faces, the sound bites, the moment we'll remember.
Not quite ready to retire and no golden parachutes in sight. Older workers being laid off late in their careers. Some advice from a counselor.
And --
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- on this episode, the real exorcist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I am demonically possessed.
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PHILLIPS: Believe it or not, a controversial new show now on the air. The exorcist, a pastor and a skeptic join us live.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Hello everyone, I'm Kyra Phillips live at the CNN headquarters in Atlanta, and you are live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
A-plus for democracy, high marks for early voters from Oklahoma's attorney general who may be somewhere in that long line snaking through the parking lot right now in Oklahoma City. We keep saying Election Day is Tuesday, and it is, but early voting starts today in Oklahoma, and in Florida on the other side of your screen they have been voting for 11 days now, some two million ballots have been cast in Florida so far. Nationwide almost 17 million voters had cast earlier absentee ballots as of yesterday.
And just so we are clear, early voting is fine, late voting won't work. It happened again. Bogus flyers telling voters of one party to vote next Tuesday, the other party Wednesday. I repeat, do not wait until Wednesday. CNN's Dan Lothian is on the election hoax beat in Norfolk, Virginia -- Dan?
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, of course, do not vote on Wednesday, because your vote will not count. This flier that has been circulating is indeed bogus, it has been going around in the Hampton Roads area which is where we are located near. Part of this area is Norfolk.
What this flier says is that due to an emergency vote by state officials, republicans or anyone who is independent leaning republican should vote on Tuesday which is Election Day, but then it says if you're a democrat or an independent leaning a democratic, then you should vote the next day, which is the 5th. Again, I should repeat, this is bogus, but obviously it has caused some confusion and we heard from one person who called in to the CNN voter hotline.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had a flier put on my door that said the commonwealth of Virginia for immediate release and it is saying that all Republican Party supporters are to be voting on November 4th, and Democratic Party supporters are to be voting on November 5th in order to an emergency session of the general assembly has adopted the following emergency regulations to ease the load on local electoral precincts and ensure a fair electoral process.
But I am really feeling that this is a bogus flier that's being put out, and it has commonwealth of Virginia on it and it also says that it's from the Virginia State Board of Elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LOTHIAN: Kyra, that is the reason it is getting so much attention, because it does look official, it does have that Commonwealth of Virginia across the top, it has that logo of the board of elections. But again, this is a bogus flier. You can only vote on Tuesday, November 4th. Election officials telling us that they are not aware who is behind this flier, but that the state police is investigating -- Kyra?
PHILLIPS: All right, Dan Lothian, thanks.
CNN is keeping them honest and if you have any troubles at the polls, just call the CNN voter hotline, help us track the problem, we'll report the trouble in real time. You heard right there Dan used that phone call tipped him off. You can call 1-877-462-6608. We are keeping them honest all the way through the election and beyond.
Well voter registration drives got the group A.C.O.R.N. in trouble with election supervisors in Indiana, but the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, A.C.O.R.N.'S formal name by the way, claims it is the target of a republican intimidation campaign. CNN's Carol Costello has the latest.
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CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A.C.O.R.N. is trying to turn the tables on republicans who charge it's not only guilty of voter fraud, but of trying to swing the election Obama's way.
STEVE KEST, ACORN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Even the general counsel of the RNC has acknowledged that he cannot cite a single example of an improper vote having been cast as a result of alleged voter registration fraud.
COSTELLO: A.C.O.R.N. is trying to quiet what it's called hysteria coming from the conservative circles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is these wackos from Bill Ayers to Jeremiah Wright working with A.C.O.R.N. and training young black kids to hate, hate, hate this country.
COSTELLO: Senator John McCain has also expressed concern about allegations surrounding A.C.O.R.N.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R-AZ) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This group may be destroying the fabric of democracy.
COSTELLO: A.C.O.R.N. says that's not true, it's released this TV ad touting its mission to sign up minority voters and accusing republicans of suppressing votes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell John McCain not this time.
COSTELLO: A.C.O.R.N. acknowledges some workers have turned in questionable voter registration applications. Just this month elections officials in Lake County, Indiana, told CNN of its A.C.O.R.N. problem.
RUTHANN HOAGLAND, LAKE COUNTY, INDIANA ELECTIONS ADMINISTRATOR: 50 percent, we had close to 5,000 total from A.C.O.R.N. and so far, we have identified about 2100.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So roughly half of them are bad?
HOAGLAND: Roughly half, correct.
COSTELLO: Federal law requires organizations to turn in all completed forms, phony or not, A.C.O.R.N. says it has fired some of its employees for putting fake names on registration applications. And some of its workers have been charged or convicted for what they did. But former U.S. attorney David Iglesias says that does not prove voter fraud.
DAVID IGLESIAS, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: This current scare makes me think a little bit about the red scare of the 1950s. This is the blue scare of the 21st century.
COSTELLO: Iglesias says republican charges against A.C.O.R.N. sound awfully familiar. Back in 2006, he and eight other U.S. attorneys were improperly fired by the Bush administration for political reasons, among them, according to Iglesias, his refusal to pursue voter fraud charges against organizations like A.C.O.R.N.
IGLESIAS: It's easy to make accusations, but ultimately, a prosecutor has to prove that case beyond a reasonable doubt in federal court.
COSTELLO: And elections expert Michael Waldman says phony registration forms does not mean that phony voters will actually cast a ballot.
MICHAEL WALDMAN, NYU ELECTIONS EXPERT: The key thing that voters should know is that when someone registers under a fake name, that doesn't mean they can vote under a fake name. Mickey Mouse is not going to be able to vote without showing some I.D.
COSTELLO: Kyra, I talked to the McCain camp, it continues to be concerned about A.C.O.R.N. saying at the very least, A.C.O.R.N. is dumping thousands of phony voter registration names on elections boards making it difficult for registrations officials to determine what is a phony name and what's a real one, and that could pave the way for voter fraud at the polls. It calls charges republicans are trying to suppress the vote absurd and says A.C.O.R.N. should be shut down -- Kyra?
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PHILLIPS: All right, Carol Costello, thanks so much.
We have a brand new CNN national poll of polls and it looks just like the last one. Among likely voters Barack Obama leads John McCain by seven points with 7 percent still undecided. That's an average of eight nationwide surveys done between October 25th and yesterday. This year's White House race has given us everything from 3:00 a.m. phone calls to Joe the plumber and lots more memorable moments along the way. Special correspondent Frank Sesno hits the highlights.
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FRANK SESNO, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Images from the campaign, they tell the story of trial by fire and two candidates who have blown hot and cold. It began in Iowa where a young black senator who sought change and hope found both in an overwhelmingly white state.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D-IL) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You have done what the cynics said we could not do.
SESNO: John McCain waited until the next stop, New Hampshire.
MCCAIN: Tonight, we sure showed them what a comeback looks like.
SESNO: The primary season was a blur, from stump speeches to You Tube debates. Sometimes nasty and sometimes destructive.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's 3:00 a.m., and your children are safe and asleep, who do you want answering the phone?
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D-NY) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm Hillary Clinton and I approve this message.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: You are likable enough, Hillary. No doubt. SESNO: He won, but she talked about breaking through.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D-NY) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We weren't able to shatter that highest, hardest glass ceiling this time, thanks to you, it's got about 18 million cracks in it.
SESNO: But when there were two, the contrast could not have been sharper. McCain built his campaign on experience, national security, his own heroic biography.
MCCAIN: And I will not be a president that needs to be tested.
SESNO: Obama's constant refrain was change.
OBAMA: The American people can't take four more years of these failed economic policies.
SESNO: Along the way, he was judged by the company he kept, Jeremiah Wright most of all who he finally cut loose. McCain was judged, too, but it was harder to cut the connection to the president who had endorsed him.
MCCAIN: If you wanted to run against President Bush, you should have run four years ago.
SESNO: Everything changed when the crisis hit, foreclosures, bankruptcies and market meltdowns.
OBAMA: The result is the most serious financial crisis since the great depression.
SESNO: And McCain uttered the words that would haunt him most.
MCCAIN: People are frightened by these events, our economy I think still, the fundamentals of our economy are strong.
SESNO: Their choices for running mates, a further study in contrast. He stayed inside Washington, sought age and experience, a safe choice. He went for the long haul, the game-changer, it was controversial and at times harsh.
GOV. SARAH PALIN, (R-AK) VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ultimately what the bailout does is help those that are concerned about the health care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy and helping the -- oh, it has to be all about job creation.
SESNO: So here they are nearly two years of campaigning down to a matter of days, and the images now a kaleidoscope of experience and history.
(On camera): So this election is built on images and impressions, proposals and personalities against the backdrop of crisis and uncertainty. All of it wrapped in a debate over judgment versus experience. What's most striking is just how stark the contrasts really are.
Frank Sesno, CNN, Washington.
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PHILLIPS: Well, how would they protect our borders? We will take a look at the candidates' plans on homeland security.
Then homeowner security, we will show you one man's shocking steps to keep his campaign signs from being stolen.
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PHILLIPS: So you work in the same place for 24 years then one day, surprise, you are talking with HR about your severance package. It's a common story, but it's not common when it happens to you. We're going to find out how one of the newly jobless Americans is handling it. We have even got some advice for you.
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PHILLIPS: All right. This is the control room, these are all my divas, that's Val, I'd like to know who she is talking to. Probably one of her sweethearts there. Get into that rundown Val, come on now. But this is just two of the females in the control room. Can you show the rest of the gals there Roberto?
There we got Baby T in the back, there she is, she has her little pumpkin colored sweater on. Oh, yes, she is looking all serious. The point being made is that we like to surround ourselves with -- Elizabeth is in there, too. Got to love it, multitasking women are never too busy to vote. You have to love that, multitasking women.com,
Susan Lisovicz, it's perfect for us. We talk about how we like to surround ourselves with angels, you know, women know how to run things around here.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: I plan to vote on Tuesday morning at 6:00 a.m., that's when I usually go, and there are no lines. That's my little secret, because I plan to watch it at the Time Warner Center that night, watch the results, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: 6:00 a.m.? Wow.
LISOVICZ: There usually aren't that many lines. I really feel for you guys with the three hours in Atlanta.
PHILLIPS: Yep, that was the average. I waited three hours yesterday. Everyone has been telling their voting story actually today, so.
LISOVICZ: I guess you had to multitask to vote on time.
PHILLIPS: That's right, and we're multitasking right now. We're talking about how hard we work, right, how we love to vote, it's how patriotic we are. You're going to tell us what's happening on Wall Street? LISOVICZ: Well, I'll tell you, we are seeing actually a rally today, Kyra, in spite of some more distressing economic news. I mean, this whole crisis started with the housing crisis, and unfortunately, we don't know that it's ending just yet.
More than seven million homeowners in this country owe more on the homes than they're now worth. The numbers come from Corps Logic and they are actually considered conservative compared to other estimates. Negative equity of course a huge contributor to foreclosures which surged more than 70 percent last month.
There is help out there though, JP Morgan Chase said today, it's offering new financing options, and the FDIC has mailed out letters to get some homeowners to rework the terms of their mortgages. More than half of those people are so overwhelmed however, they don't even open up their mail anymore, they don't think there is anything good in there. So open it up, it might actually give you a solution -- Kyra?
PHILLIPS: I don't know. I get a lot of junk mail lately, and the last thing I need is another credit card. I'm getting lots of those.
LISOVICZ: Especially when you're overwhelmed.
PHILLIPS: Exactly. All right, the housing crisis, truly going to be a factor in next week's elections. Let's talk about homeowners in the battleground states and how they're fairing.
LISOVICZ: And you know some very interesting findings there, Kyra. Two big battleground states are experiencing huge housing downturns for different reasons. Nearly 30 percent of Florida residents have negative home equities, huge speculations there. And more than 22 percent in Ohio, just a state that's been very hard hit by the economy for a long time. Those states could go either way.
Interestingly, the stock market has been a very good indicator of who will actually win the presidential election. If the S&P 500 goes up in the three months leading up to voting day, the incumbent or his party will get elected. If the S&P goes down, a replacement is more likely to get elected. That index has dropped nearly 25 percent, so if you follow that standard, that model, Senator Barack Obama will win. Of course, it's not perfect and we will be watching those results, and there have been some polls that show that the race is tightening, but the S&P forecasting has been accurate 80 percent of the time since 1928.
What's 100 percent accurate is the big board right now which right now shows the Dow is up. Boy, it would be so nice to see back- to-back gains for the Dow this month. We haven't had one this month. The NASDAQ composite meanwhile is up 25 points, each up about 1.5 percent, Kyra. Back to you. That is a little treat for you.
PHILLIPS: Good. We like to have little treats, not too many tricks, we get plenty of those. Thanks, Susan.
LISOVICZ: You're welcome. PHILLIPS: Coming up in the next few minutes, one of the real people behind the numbers. We're going to find out what the job market looks like when you put names and faces and stories with the stats.
Four days to go we have been counting them down and laying out the candidates' presidential plans. Ten issues in 10 days. So far this week we have looked at their stands on the economy, taxes, energy, health care, education, and housing, today, homeland security.
On this issue, the plans look pretty similar. Both Barack Obama and John McCain say they will implement recommendations from the 9/11 commission. Both also plan to provide assistance to first responders and in addition they both vow to protect critical infrastructure and chemical plants. Obama says that he will work to coordinate domestic intelligence gathering. McCain says he'll call for more military intelligence, Special Forces and civil affairs personnel. Tomorrow, CNN will take a look at the candidates' foreign policy agenda, so stay with us.
In Iraq a big sign that efforts to stabilize that country are paying off. U.S. troop deaths this month are down more than one half from September when 25 were killed. This month, 13 non-combat and combatant deaths have been reported. Since the beginning of the war 4,189 American troops have died in this war. A U.S. military official calls this month's drop a positive indication of the increased security across Iraq.
And a promotion today for the man who's credited with leading that turnaround in Iraq. General David Petraeus is now in charge of U.S. Central Command, the position not only makes him responsible for U.S. military operations in Iraq, but also for war efforts in Afghanistan. In ceremonies this morning at McDill Air Force base in Tampa, General Petraeus took over from Lieutenant General Martin Dempsey.
More than 2,000 deaths reported after a suspected U.S. missile strikes today in northwest Pakistan. Military sources and local intelligence officials say 21 people were killed when missiles fired from drones hit a village in North Waziristan. Now in the second attack missiles from suspected U.S. drones killed seven people in the South Waziristan. None of the victims have been identified and so far, there has been no reaction from the U.S. military.
Sixty three years old, 24 years with the same company, now jobless. A face behind the numbers of this tough economy tries to keep smiling. We'll have his story straight ahead.
Plus not your standard television fare. A new reality show about an exorcist doing his thing. He joins us for a chat with another priest and a serious skeptic.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
PHILLIPS: Former Democratic presidential nominee Al Gore is back in Florida, the state that he came so close to winning back eight years ago, but this time he's trying to convince Floridians to vote for Barack Obama. John Zarrella is standing by in Pompano Beach -- Hey John.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey Kyra. Yes, he's back here to what the democrats will call and tell you was the scene of the crime. He was in West Palm Beach earlier today, the infamous butterfly ballot of course, spoke to a large gathering there. And we are in Broward County here now at Broward College where the former vice president is expected to address this crowd any minute now.
I have to tell you, Kyra, there is probably about 150, maybe 200 people in here, but there are actually more people outside waiting in line to vote just around the corner. A larger crowd there and many of them probably getting ready to vote and then maybe heading in over here afterwards, but the Obama campaign bringing out all of the heavy weights today, of course, Al Gore here in Florida, tomorrow Hillary Clinton is going to be in Miami, Jimmy Buffett over in Tampa. And on Monday night, Senator Obama himself will be in Jacksonville for an event.
So still, a big weekend and Sarah Palin on the republican side is actually going to be along the I-4 corridor campaigning tomorrow, a very pivotal area as far as the republicans are concerned -- Kyra?
PHILLIPS: Ooh, did you say Jimmy Buffett?
ZARRELLA: Jimmy Buffett, we need to go.
PHILLIPS: I was going to say, yes it doesn't matter what side of the politics that you are on, let's just go for the Jimmy Buffett concert, I'm in. All right, I'll see you in a little bit.
ZARRELLA: Exactly.
PHILLIPS: All right. Thanks, John.
Well, for retailers Halloween is the start of the holiday shopping season but with the economy in such a mess, will they be getting a trick or treat? We'll find out.
And just in time for all hallows eve, a reality show about an exorcist. How many viewers' eyeballs will it possess? We will talk with the exorcist himself, plus some critics of the show.
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PHILLIPS: Two thirty-one Eastern time here are some of the stories we are working on in the CNN NEWSROOM right now.
A nasty senate race in North Carolina takes a nastier turn. Elizabeth Dole's democratic challenger Kay Hagan is suing Dole over one of the republican senator's ads suggesting Hagan is godless. The Dole campaign says it's based on Hagan's attendance at a fundraiser in the home of an advisor to an atheist group. Hagan says that she is a Sunday school teacher and Presbyterian church elder. Authorities in South Florida believe up to 20 people may be missing after a boat carrying migrants ran aground off Miami Beach. At least three deaths are reported, more than a dozen other people rescued. The boat was sailing with a Dominican Republic flag.
And right now the month on Wall Street is ending on a positive note. Dow industrials up 144 points.
Well, unemployment rates in most metro areas were higher in September than they were a year ago. This week alone, some big U.S. companies announced some pretty big layoffs, about 20,000 people stand to lose their jobs at companies like American Express, Motorola and Whirlpool. Some fields are more vulnerable than others, if you work in real estate, finance, retail, the auto or travel industries, or in the media or publishing industry, you are in a field that could see even more pink slips.
Well, Milton Hinnant knows all about how vulnerable media jobs are. You know, we rattle off a lot of numbers and stats when it comes to the economy, but Milton is what the tough economy looks like in person. He worked for the "Dallas Morning News" for nearly a quarter century as a photographer. He thought he had seen everything in his career, but he never saw himself holding a pink slip at the age of 63. Milton's with us from Dallas. We also have career expert Maggie Mistal with us live from New York. She's going to help us out and give us some great tips. Good to see you both. Milton, let's start with you. You heard the rumors there were probably going to be layoffs. You didn't mess around, you went right to the top and said, hey, what's going on? Tell me what happened and how you felt?
MILTON HINNANT, LAID OFF AT AGE 63: Well, it all happened last Friday when I was preparing to shoot a football game and one of the assistant editors called me and says come down to the paper and talk to the director. I knew there was going to be layoffs and when I there I just asked her point blank am I being laid off and she said yes. And I was shocked. One of her remarks was that, you know, you can hit me if you want to and I told her, I can't do that, I have no need to hit you, I just need to get out of here. So we went to human resources, I talked to the lady there, she gave me my package of termination and I went home. And I just sat in my dark house for three or four hours and thought I was just shocked, I was numb. I felt disappointed, I was angry. You know, because for so long, I had been doing this, I knew the possibility that I could be laid off but I didn't think it would really happen. So when it does happen, and when it did happen, it smacks you in the face, this is reality, this is life. You have to deal with it. So, my wife and my kids came home and I talked to them. My wife had gone to a reduction in staff 15 years ago and she did well and she became a teacher. My daughter was saying dad, things are going to be ok. My son was a little worried, but I told him, I said, hey, look, man, I'm the same guy that you saw last week. I have the same abilities, I have the same talents. I may not have a job but we're going to get through this and we're going to be ok.
PHILLIPS: And that's what's so amazing, because not everybody has that type of strength, Milton. And Maggie, this is happening all over the country, there are a lot of Miltons right now and not everyone has such a positive attitude. You have a number of options, especially if you are over 50. You do have kind of light at the end of the tunnel, so-to-speak, starting with focusing on employability, why don't we start there and tell me the, you know, what you could say to Milton right now and others like him.
MAGGIE MISTAL, CAREER EXPERT: Oh, absolutely. Well one of the things, Kyra, and Milton to remember, that this is not a judgment against your talent and your abilities, your passions, the things that have made you successful in your career to date. It's really more of an economic issue, so try not to take it personally. It doesn't sound like you are and I'm glad to hear that, and really focus in on the strengths, the talents that have made you successful to date. You can be employable in another capacity and in fact, if you want to continue, you know, doing the great photojournalism that you have done, you can repackage it or even look for ways to freelance. So don't think that you're not employable just because this one particular job went away.
PHILLIPS: And you were saying too, the other thing you should do is convert your skills. What do you mean by that?
MISTAL: Well, there are a lot of skills that apply no matter what industry or job you're in, transferable skills, things like being able to manage projects, being able to get your work done, being able to work well with others and communicate. These are all skills that apply across different industries, so if you are in an industry like publishing where things are changing and you gave that great list Kyra of, there's a lot of industries being hit right now, there are industries that are growing like health care, where they are looking for great workers, they're looking for people with these types of skills, so don't think your options are completed limited.
PHILLIPS: And you also say get creative with packaging your experience. Give me an example?
MISTAL: Yes, well absolutely. I think for Milton, this could be really great actually if you think about it. If you are close to retirement, which I hope you are, Milton, because you have done a lot of great work and it's time for you to relax a little. If you can repackage your skills you might be able to freelance or do project based work, or be a contractor instead of doing a full time job. It may require you having to start your own business, you know in a consulting kind of way, but that can free up your time and really give you a great schedule that may even work better for you than that full- time job did.
PHILLIPS: Milton, I want to take a minute just so folks can see your work. I picked out a couple of photos that you even said were some of your favorites. This one is just fantastic, little Paco crying, because I think he got nailed with a baseball. Tell me about this photo and why this was one of your favorites?
HINNANT: Well, it was a little league game over in Mesquite, that I got assigned to shoot and I was hoping something interesting would happen, but I never expected that to happen. When Paco got hit by the ball, he started crying and the referee stepped from behind the plate and talked to him and said, you're going to be ok. He took off to second, and his mom came to the fence and I could see the concern on her face and I took a picture of her, and then there were a couple more plays, Paco came around and scored and his mom was jumping up and down and cheering and stuff. It looked pretty cool.
PHILLIPS: It's kind of like how we're all feeling about the economy right now, those tears, we can feel Paco's tears. And this one about the teacher trying to encourage kids and get excited about taking tests there in Texas. Why the Pinocchio nose?
HINNANT: Well, teachers are creative people and they do a lot of things to get their kids excited. This was over in Duncanville, at an elementary school, and they were having a pretest party, kind of a pep rally, to get the kids excited about it, and the teacher was saying that every time I do something wrong my nose grew. So she put on this nose. And the kids loved it. The kids loved it.
PHILLIPS: So Maggie, final thought. Your website, how folks can take up on what you have said, you have advised Milton a little bit that even after 50 in this tough economy, you can still roll on and use your talents in different ways.
MISTAL: Oh absolutely, Kyra. And Milton, don't give up, in fact, just seeing the passion and talent in those photos, there is a lot of opportunities online and you still have great things to offer. So if you're willing to contribute them, I would encourage you to really explore, perhaps network with colleagues, friends who've gone through this, because I think there is a lot more out there for you. And for more tips if people who are going through this, I've been very busy Kyra, but there is always room for more. People can go to my website at maggiemistal.com.
PHILLIPS: Maggie Mistal and Milton Hinnant, thank you both so much. We'll be thinking about you Milton.
HINNANT: Thank you very much, thank you for having me.
PHILLIPS: You bet.
Well, it's an unusual addition to the reality show lineup. Casting out demons and saving souls. The real exorcist, himself, joins us live along with a disapproving pastor and a total disbeliever.
And young Hollywood really trying to reach out to young voters this year, so, do the stars hold much sway? We go live to L.A.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Thirty-five years after exorcism possessed the big screen, it's spooking us on, well, the small. A reality show called "The Real Exorcist" debuted last night on Sci-Fi. It follows the Reverend Bill Larson on his rounds as he works to help and heel.
Reverend Larson joins us live now along with Pastor Roger Miller and Joe Nickell from the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, this should be an interesting conversation among the four of us no doubt.
Reverend Larson, I want to start with you and just talk about the show for a minute. What evidence do you actually have that demonic possession is real and not just a psychological superstitious state?
REV. BILL LARSON, "THE REAL EXORCIST": Well, first of all, I have been doing exorcisms for more than 30 years, 10,000 plus and counting and we have actually formed more than 100 exorcism teams with thousands of trained people. So this isn't a new phenomenon to us, and it has been around for 2,000 years of church history.
Now as far as the show is concerned, we were on the road for five months to 16 cities, and filmed 16 different episodes. These people were very carefully vetted, particularly with reference to possible physical, emotional and psychological problems. In fact, in one of the episodes last night, there was a man who claimed to have demons and I told him he didn't and that he needed to get some serious psychological help. So we are well aware not everybody who thinks they have a demon has a demon, but many people who don't think they do, do have one and need "The Real Exorcist."
PHILLIPS: Joe Nickell, true demons or mental placebo trick?
JOE NICKELL, COLUMNIST, SKEPTICAL INQUIRER MAGAZINE: Well, we need to exercise the nonsense out of Reverend Larson, this medieval superstition has got to go. If we know anything from psychology and psychiatry and neurology, we know that the best explanation for the kinds of things he's dealing with is psychological or something to do with the brain.
LARSON: Well, Joe, you have never been present at one of our exorcisms and I would welcome you to check out my website, come to one of our seminars. I would like to put you right on the front row.
PHILLIPS: I'll tell you what guys, let's go ahead, let's roll one of these exorcisms, this is Rihanna, she said that demons are all around, that they pass her in her sleep, her mom believes she's possessed, her dad's a principal at a Christian school. The dad is white, his great-great-grandfather owned slaves, so they all feel that the demons have been passed down through the bloodline. Let's watch this clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I go to sleep at night, there is no peace, I feel this overwhelming dark presence upon me.
LARSON: I come against the spirit of fear that has kept these women of God from claiming their rightful ownership to this home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
LARSON: The spirit is here, get out of her. You think you are in control, don't you? As you do that, I will bring judgment --
(END VIDEO CLIP) PHILLIPS: Pastor Miller, is this for real and should it even be on TV?
PASTOR ROGER MILLER, ST. PAUL'S LUTHERAN CHURCH: You know, I wish I had seen it last night. Listening to Bob, I like what he has to say, I like the substance, I'm just not sure about the style. To me, the style may be a little over the top, but certainly, I don't disagree with anything that he has said.
PHILLIPS: Joe?
NICKELL: The notion, and I appreciate the reverend trying to co- opt me, but this in the United States of America in the 21st century that we're talking about demon possession is frankly embarrassing. And science knows better -- don't talk over me. Science knows better, and this is really just silly except it's more tragic than that. These people are obviously role playing, because they have seen the movies, they know what they are supposed to do, and he convinces them that they have some devil in them and they act it out. They talk in a guttural fashion or they fall down or they thrash about, but there is not a scintilla of scientific evidence that this is demonic possession. It is really embarrassing to have this air --
LARSON: Joe, you weren't there and you didn't see it.
NICKELL: I have seen your --
LARSON: No, no Joe, you were not there.
NICKELL: I have personally seen it on TV and I have seen other exorcisms, believe me, I have seen possessed people.
LARSON: You were not there in person.
NICKELL: That's true, I wasn't. If that's all you have to offer.
PHILLIPS: Reverend Larson, go ahead and respond to the scientific aspect of things, go ahead and respond to that.
LARSON: Well, Joe, you have every right to an opinion, which I respect. But you didn't give any empirical evidence, you weren't there with the camera crew on the road with me for five months meeting these people in person.
Now let me talk Joe. Now Joe let me talk, do you mind if I finish my sentence, please, thank you very much.
PHILLIPS: Go ahead and finish your thought, I'll get Pastor Miller in here too.
LARSON: Ok, Joe, look, you weren't there, you didn't work with these people. These are typical folks who have gone every possible route to find hope and help for their dilemmas, and they have turned to exorcism as one more therapeutic adjunct to help resolve their inner torment. And if these people are better afterwards and if they have healthy or more productive lives, what's the problem.
NICKELL: Well, the problem --
PHILLIPS: Whoa, whoa, hold on Joe. Pastor Miller, let me bring that up, if hope and help is what Reverend Larson is saying, so do you believe this is an ethical healing process, if this is better than Christian counseling?
MILLER: Let me just say a couple of things. I think first of all, I was exactly in the same seat that Joe is in 32 years ago. I graduated from seminary not really believing in the existence of devils and demons as a real person, I thought of it as kind of a -- "Star Wars" was coming out about the time that I graduated from seminary and I loved the dark side, I loved that terminology.
But to actually think of a person as a devil, it just was something that didn't sit well with me at all. But about two years into ministry things began to happen in my life that what Bob is talking about, I experienced. I think God in his grace just sort of pulled the veil back, because there was a moment in my life where I am thinking, lord, I have to preach this stuff and here is this bible passage that deals with Jesus casting out a demon in a young boy and I thought, lord, how am I going to preach this on Sunday. I want to be as real and as transparent as possible, how can I do this? And God answered that prayer and I don't know why -- I mean I don't know why, but yet in his goodness he just pulled back the veil and a series of things happened that I know was out of the ordinary.
It was unusual that literally began through a process to change my mind about this very issue. But, again, I think it's interesting to hear both Bob and Joe talk. It reminds me of C.S. Lewis in "Screw Tape Letters" who says, you know really, there is, when we talk about the devils, there are two equal and opposing sides. One is not to believe and the other is to believe with excessive interest. I don't know Bob and I don't know his program, but I --
PHILLIPS: You bring up a good point about C.S. Lewis, an atheist and became a world renowned theologian and writer and what's interesting, Joe, maybe you could wrap up, because you haven't really pinpointed the scientific which I would like to give you a chance to do about scientific knowledge you feel trumping the situation here, but it was the Catholic Church that was at issue with Galileo years and years ago, and the church ended up apologizing to Galileo.
NICKELL: They have and they revised their guidelines on exorcism, but I will be happy when they get rid of the idea of exorcism entirely.
LARSON: Joe --
PHILLIPS: Look, go ahead, final thought.
NICKELL: We are not talking about belief here and faith, we're talking about evidence. We ought to start with an answer and then look for some evidence that seems to support it. But look at the evidence and let it lead us to an answer. You know, you can start by subscribing to our magazine, but obviously, there is a lack here of any kind of scientific background, and a whole lot of medieval theology that I think is very, very misplaced.
PHILLIPS: Well, it's creating a lot of talk, that's for sure.
Reverend Bob Larson, Joe Nickell and Pastor Roger Miller. We can talk about this all hour. It will be interesting to follow the show, see how well it does on Sci-Fi and maybe the three of us will talk again. Gentlemen, I really appreciate the discussion.
LARSON: Thanks very much.
PHILLIPS: Thanks guys.
NICKELL: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Quick break, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Celebrity endorsements of politicians aren't anything new, this election though young Hollywood has really gotten involved. Some supporting candidates, some just trying to get out the vote. Entertainment correspondent Kareen Wynter live from L.A. Hi Kareen.
KAREEN WYNTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hi there Kyra. These stars are speaking out in this election, but are their messages actually helping to sway younger voters?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WYNTER (voice-over): Blunt --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't care, I don't care.
WYNTER: Bold.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Talk to your parents about John McCain.
WYNTER: And sometimes blatantly explicit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody [ bleep ] with John McCain.
WYNTER: Many young Hollywood stars have been making political statements, hoping to woo young voters in this election. From PSAs featuring actresses Jessica Alba and (INAUDIBLE) Pannatear ---
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A vote for McCain is a vote against change.
WYNTER: The public endorsements from reality TV stars like (INAUDIBLE). A John McCain supporter managed to get even the GOP presidential candidate's attention earlier this year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Picked up a huge endorsement yesterday.
MCCAIN: That was pretty good wasn't it. Well I mean she's a very talented actress.
WYNTER: Political observers are seeing a trend in the number of young celebrities, some barely of voting age, active in this election. Some have an agenda, others a nonpartisan message, just vote.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you have no plans to vote in the November presidential election, then this is the product for you.
WYNTER: But does this get out the vote drive have any impact on getting young people to the polls?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think they can carry a lot of weight.
WYNTER: Washington State University just released a study based on a survey taken right before the 2004 election on whether celebrity endorsements can actually coax young adults.
PROF. ERICA WEINTRAUB-AUSTIN, WASHINGTON STATE UNIVERSITY: Celebrities really piqued their interest and made them feel they can make a difference and got them involved so they were more likely to read newspapers or research for information on the internet.
WYNTER: But a Pew Research study found celebs have little impact on influencing young voters.
CARROLL DOHERTY, ASSOC. DIRECTOR, PEW RESEARCH CENTER: Very few celebrities really moved the needle all that much. Young people are like other voters, they like to think for themselves, they like to say, no, I'm not going to be persuaded by celebrity X, I would rather make up my own mind.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WYNTER: And some stars say Kyra, there is really no harm to their message here if it influences others to take a stand. There you have it.
PHILLIPS: Kareen Wynter, Happy Halloween my friend.
WYNTER: You too, Happy Halloween.
PHILLIPS: All right, quick break, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: A McCain/Palin supporter angry about signs being stolen from his yard is now giving any would be thief a shock. The first victim, a 9-year-old boy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHAWN TURSCHAK, HOMEOWNER: It's obvious from the video that he was coming to remove my sign and replace it with his. Now obviously we're not looking to hurt anyone, we simply want our signs to stay put.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Well, the North Carolina homeowner has hooked up the sign to an electrical pet fence with a low current. He is also put up warning signs. The mother of the 9-year-old boy says he knows better than to steal campaign signs, but she thought the shock was a bit extreme. We're going to shock you now, Rick Sanchez is up with more of the CNN NEWSROOM.
