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Auto Bailout Delayed; Police Interrogating a Child?
Aired November 20, 2008 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Coming at you right now, we are following up on the corporate jet fiasco.
REP. BRAD SHERMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: Raise your hand if you're planning to sell your jet in place now and fly back commercial.
SANCHEZ: Unwavering in the face of an angry nation. How much is enough, we ask.
A convicted felon celebrated by his peers in the Senate as if he were vindicated. Why such an emotional applause?
He is an NFL superstar. This is his father, hospitalized, unable to speak. Did uniformed Houston police put him there? We ask the questions a community wants answered.
An 8-year-old interrogated gets a Thanksgiving furlough.
Welcome to Capitol Hill, freshmen. Here is some lobbyist money.
REP. NICK RAHALL (D), WEST VIRGINIA: Well, do you have an alternative?
SANCHEZ: Is this really change?
It is lunchtime in Vegas, 3:00 p.m. in Philly. Connecting with you on the air and on the net, our national conversation begins right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: By the way, I should tell you -- Rick Sanchez here at the world headquarters of CNN -- this investigative piece that we are going to be presenting for you in just a little bit where lobbyists are trying to give contributions to some of the new members of Congress, fabulous piece of journalism. You're going to watch that coming up in just a little bit.
We're also going to be getting the latest out of this story that we have been telling you about in Houston, Texas, where a man who is related to an NFL football star, according to his family, was beaten by police. There is a news conference that is taking place during this hour by the police chief there in Houston. And we are going to be sharing details of that news conference as we get it. But, obviously, the big story is the decision to essentially have no decision on the part of Congress when it comes to bailing out or helping the Big Three automakers. That is essentially what they are saying, although some would look at this and say it's just not the right time. Too many constituents, too many Americans are saying, no, we're not going to let you do that, so they're saying maybe it is better if we postpone it.
We have got one piece of sound that we want you to look at with this. This is Congressman Brad Sherman. This is him asking prior, because this may be the linchpin in all of this, this is him asking these three big CEOs whether they are willing to sell their planes and go back to Detroit without them, flying commercial. Here is the question, and here is the response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERMAN: I'm going to ask the three executives here to raise their hand if they flew here commercial. Let the record show no hands went up.
Second, I'm going ask you to raise your hand if you're planning to sell your jet in place now and fly back commercial. Let the record show no hands went up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is an amazing development in the story. And then people saying that may be actually the part of the story which may have squashed this thing. We are getting a lot of feedback from you on Facebook and on MySpace and on Twitter.com. We are going to be showing some of those to you in just a little bit.
Here is what Harry Reid had to say. There have been two news conferences since this decision was announced for those of you just now getting home from work. This is the first news conference and this is Harry Reid speaking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: The markets are -- the stock markets, the credit markets are having a lot of difficulty. What kind of message do we send to the American people by having a bunch of failed votes here? We do not have the votes.
What happened here in Washington this week has not been good for the auto industry. I know it was not planned, but these guys flying in their big corporate jets does not send a good message to people in Searchlight, Nevada, or Las Vegas or Reno, or any other place in this country.
We want them to get their act together. We want them to come up with something. We are here to help. We are not against the auto industry.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: Here to help. We want them to get their act together and essentially what this Congress seems to be saying is we can't do this now. We are going to have to table it. We will come back to it later, maybe when the populace is in a better mood about these guys.
Kate Bolduan is following the story. She's joining us now from Capitol Hill to fill in the details.
What is going on, Kate?
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think you could see the frustration on the majority leader's -- in his comments right there. He has really summed up what lawmakers are saying and why they have gotten to the position where they are.
They said what they heard in these hearings the past couple days did not give lawmakers confidence that these Big Three deserved -- in their mind deserved to get these bailout funds. And so, now what they are calling for, this is the newest development in this long ongoing bailout story, in this auto bailout story, is now what lawmakers are saying is, here you go, Big Three, ball is in your court. Come up with a plan.
Give us details of how you are going to use these taxpayer dollars, these billions of taxpayer dollars. When you present that to us -- the deadline is December 2 -- we will hold hearings the following week. Then we will come back, likely come back the following week, December 8, and then we will consider it, he says, but you have to present a plan.
So they are really pushing it off on the automakers and saying, here is your next chance. Give us the answers that we asked you that they say they didn't get in the past two days in hearings.
SANCHEZ: Yes. And then we get Levin coming on from Michigan a little while ago and he is saying, you know what, these are the wrong people to be examining this plan anyway. They need to be financial experts, not senators or congressmen looking at this thing.
But you know what I want to do, Kate? I want to bring in somebody now, David Welch. He is in Detroit. He has followed this story closely.
It is interesting, because Kate just said something about the plan that they have to come with and how it needs to be different. Doesn't their comportment need to be different as well? Don't they need to come in with a new attitude, maybe one, David Welch, that doesn't say we are better than everybody else and deserve all this money, including private planes and the other perks we get?
DAVID WELCH, "BUSINESSWEEK": You know, Rick, this was really bad marketing on their part. They come in with the corporate jets. Frankly, a lot of execs at a lot of big companies travel on a company plane. There are security reasons and that sort of thing, but to go in asking for public funds at a time when a lot of people are losing their jobs or afraid to keep their jobs, it was just lousy marketing. And there were perks like that all over these companies. General Motors has been called generous motors for years. A lot of that is done to retain the talent, so that people don't leave, so you give them perks, bonuses, that sort of thing. But when you are at the edge of bankruptcy and you're asking for public funds or a loan to get through these tough times, you have got to show that you are leaning up and changing the way you do things.
SANCHEZ: See, that is the problem. Let's face it. The perception -- you are calling it P.R., marketing, whatever you want to call it, you know what it means to the average American out there who is watching you and I having this conversation? It means that these guys are acting like pigs, like they have billions of dollars in their company. They take millions of dollars home. They drive in the fanciest cars. They have got everything taken care of and I am sitting at home with -- I will give you an example of what I'm talking about.
Between 1996 and 2006, CEO pay rose in the United States 45 percent. Worker pay rose 7 percent. Now, people don't begrudge anybody making a little bit of money, but when the disparity gets that big, people start to get angry, and you get that, right?
WELCH: Sure.
Your CEO pay is a massive issue with the general public, especially when it comes to policy and that sort of thing. Remember the outrage when Bob Nardelli, the Chrysler CEO, got a $210 million package to leave Home Depot, and the company was in a lot of trouble.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But wait. Let me put just a punctuation on what you just said, because I want our viewers to understand that.
WELCH: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Nardelli was the CEO of a company that was doing bad, not good, bad. So, as a reward for doing bad as he left, they gave him $210 million. Who gets that -- who is watching this newscast now who can Twitter me and say, oh, yes, I got a deal like that?
WELCH: Hey, it even takes Alex Rodriguez eight years to make that kind of money. So, you are talking about real scratch there.
(LAUGHTER)
WELCH: But, ironically, Nardelli was the one who sort of set the tone for the executive pay issue in the congressional hearings. He offered to work for a dollar, as Lee Iacocca did.
When I said it was a bad marketing to fly in on the planes, here is what I am talking about. When Chrysler was bailed out in 1979, Lee Iacocca worked for a buck. Lee Iacocca was a master salesman. That whole bailout, the union gave in on wages. Executives took a pay cut. White-collar people took a pay cut. Even the suppliers had to cut their profit margins, selling to Chrysler. The banks who had debt, had Chrysler debt, had to take a haircut.
Everybody gave at the office to make that happen.
SANCHEZ: Exactly.
WELCH: These guys come into Washington and they said, well, look what we have already done. They didn't say, here is what we are going to do.
Now, I believe there is a will to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But I have got to tell you -- and I don't mean to interrupt -- the will has to start here. It has got to be real. If you can look at yourself in the mirror after doing these things and you feel fine about it, then you shouldn't have that job.
I mean, that is how -- look, let me bring in somebody who knows a lot about malfeasance, because he has screwed up royal in his life, as a matter of fact. He is writing a book about it now, indicted for this kind of thing. He knows about greed. He knows about malfeasance. He knows about how that works in the corporate world.
It is Jordan Belfort.
Jordan, what is the name of your book?
JORDAN BELFORT, AUTHOR, "THE WOLF OF WALL STREET": "The Wolf of Wall Street."
SANCHEZ: "The Wolf of Wall Street."
And we are talking to him right now.
Give us your take on what is going on, when American people are seeing some of these folks walking away with these unbelievable sweetheart deals, these golden parachutes, as they call them, and then they arrive on Wall Street -- pardon me -- on Capitol Hill asking for money on private jets.
BELFORT: Right.
I mean, well, again, I guess I do know a lot about this sort of stuff with malfeasance.
Nice introductions. I appreciate that.
And I will tell you that it is a total joke on so many levels. The fact that these -- listen, I have a thick skin because of my past, the acts.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BELFORT: I was outraged by that. I couldn't even believe that they would fly on private jets. You know how much it costs? It's like $20,000 for each trip. And they couldn't even share. They should...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: They all left from the same airport, probably said hello to each other on the way and left in three different planes.
(CROSSTALK)
BELFORT: So, it is $20,000 a trip. They are in the lap of luxury. They could have flown commercial.
It doesn't make any sense. But it is a joke on so many different levels. They are asking for $25 billion. It is like putting a Band- Aid on a gunshot wound. OK, $25 billion is not nearly enough. And there's fundamental problems of the automakers that need to be resolved. And it is not just money.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But you were in that world. You're the guy who was cutting these deals. You're the guy who was doing a lot of dirty stuff, right?
WELCH: Right. Yes.
SANCHEZ: You know about this.
Do these guy care? I mean, I have seen stories on these Japanese businessmen who really seem to care about their companies. The guys at the top of these, do they care? Or are they just there to make a buck?
WELCH: Well, I think certainly they're there to make a buck.
But it's not so much they don't care. They have lost touch with reality. They don't get that the average American would be outraged by that. They think it is their right of passage, their right of birth to simply go and spend these ridiculous sums of money to fly on private planes, to have these wild golden parachutes.
I think one of the CEOs made $16 million last year. You know what he should do? He should say, if he wants the money, he should say, I will work for $1 a year for five years. And I will buy a million shares of GM stock. Then give me the money, OK?
And, personally, I think these companies would be better off declaring bankruptcy first and then the government should step in and give them money, with loan guarantees or cash infusions. Need to change the model of their business.
SANCHEZ: That is what a lot of people seem to be saying. And it is interesting that Congress is saying, no, give us a little more time.
And I think it is because the message from the American people is very similar to what you just stated right now. Let them go. Maybe it will come up with a better economic model for it. We're down to 10 seconds. Go ahead. Finish us off, Jordan.
BELFORT: Yes. Again, I think that the auto industry is important. It should be in the U.S. And we have the most talented, hardworking people, the brightest engineers.
But they cannot compete with the current cost structures, the number of dealerships, the pensions, the health benefits. It has to be restructured.
SANCHEZ: Gotcha.
BELFORT: And then we can have the most successful auto industry in the world.
SANCHEZ: My thanks to you, Jordan Belfort, as well as David Welch and Kate Bolduan.
Interesting discussion. A lot of people are going to be talking about this during Thanksgiving week. And I think lawmakers are hoping that maybe they talk about it so much, that they are able to slip it in later. But I have a feeling that it's still going to be a hot topic a couple of weeks from now. My thanks to both of you.
By the way, a story that we have been following all morning and afternoon is taking place in Houston, Texas. Take a look at this picture. See if you see you -- you know who that is? That is the father of an NFL superstar. He is in this condition, says his family, because police arrested him, then took him behind a gas station, and beat him to a pulp.
Now, police are holding a news conference. They have put out a statement. We have got the details. We are going to be reading it to you in just a little bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back.
As we come back, I want to share with you some of the comments that many people are sending to us, especially on the Twitter board.
Johnny B. Goode, let's go there.
Corey Davis is watching right now. Here is what he or she says about this: "Only two kinds of people fly private jets, people with too much money and private jet pilots."
Now, you want to know what the mood of the populace is. This is the mood of the populace it seems around the country: "I really don't want people to lose their jobs, but I do not trust these automakers and I don't want to pay for the negligence."
There you go. Continue sending your comments to us on MySpace, Facebook, or Twitter, and we will be sharing it this national conversation that we have here everyday at 3:00. Now this story, a story that seems so troubling in so many different ways, and one that seems to be just the very tip of the information. It is about a man. His last name is Driver. He is Marvin Driver. His son is a wide receiver with the Green Bay Packers.
This is his condition, says his family, as a result of an attack by police officers, they say. The police department says now they are in fact conducting an investigation, but they do not say that in any way there is any culpability on the part of the police officers.
In fact, we have a statement that the police department has put out. It says as such.
Be ready to put that up, Roger.
"Mr. Driver Jr. was arrested during a traffic stop and placed into custody on outstanding traffic warrants about 1:30 a.m. on Monday November 17. Officers placed him in the back seat of a patrol unit and transported him to our Southeast Jail at" such and such road. "Upon arrival to the jail, our officers stated Mr. Driver was unresponsive."
Key word there, unresponsive.
"One of our jail doctors examined Mr. Driver and advised officers to contact HFD paramedics. HFD then transported Mr. Driver to Memorial Hermann Hospital. The Houston Police Department's internal affairs investigation investigate allegations of police misconduct. The allegations being raised by Mr. Driver's family are that injuries he sustained following his arrest were the result of an assault on Mr. Driver by HPD officers. We take allegations such as these very seriously and will begin a through investigation into the matter. The two officers remain on duty pending further investigation."
Let us bring Lisa Bloom in. She works on truTV. She hosts a show called "In Session," has seen cases like this come and go from time to time.
What is interesting here is that the family alleges and the picture seems to confirm that he has had some kind of very serious injury apparently by blunt-force trauma. What does that tell you?
LISA BLOOM, TRUTV ANCHOR: Well, this is all going to come down to the medical evidence, I think. If indeed he is bruised and he has blunt-force injuries, it is hard to imagine that he simply slumped down in back of the police vehicle or in custody and had some kind of natural incident.
What we know is that there was an eyewitness to the arrest, and that is the brother Marvin Driver, a name by the name of Winston Driver. Winston says the police came after this man, uttered expletives about him, took him into the police custody. The next thing we know, he has got a brain hemorrhage and he's in critical condition.
So there are a lot of questions swirling around this case. But it certainly does not look good for the Houston P.D., based on what we know so far.
SANCHEZ: And we should let our viewers know that we are expecting a news conference from them, the police chief, or -- pardon me. It is not a news conference. Let me rephrase that.
The police chief will taking questions from reporters and answering them. We are monitoring that news conference through our affiliates in Houston. As soon as we get any information on those turned around, we will bring it to you.
But all they have given us so far -- and Michael over here has been in contact with them throughout the day -- is that statement that I just read. And that is why I wanted to make sure I read it in full.
Family says they took him behind a gas station after he had been arrested, and that is where they beat him, allegedly, that then he can't speak apparently because of the beating or because of whatever situation he is in. Let me rephrase that. But he is able to write. And that what where he explained to them what they did. And they said that he was going to see Jesus and they forced him to swallow something, according to the family.
What do you make of some of those allegations?
BLOOM: If you are talking to me, I am sorry.
I think it is absolutely horrendous. And as I said, what it is going to come down to, number one, is the statement of this victim. As you say, he is writing out his statement as we speak, apparently on paper towels, and crying while he is in custody and writing out this statement. We have the brother who was an eyewitness, and we have expletives being uttered.
I mean, what is the explanation for the injuries to this man?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BLOOM: What is the explanation for the motive behind this beating?
It certainly doesn't make any sense. And, by the way, he is only arrested for outstanding traffic warrants. He's not arrested for any kind of a violent crime. And the police at least so far don't seem to allege that he was fighting back, that he was belligerent, that he was resisting arrest. We don't have anything like that at this point.
SANCHEZ: Yes, it just doesn't look good, but that doesn't mean there is culpability on anybody's part. The real sticking point here is how does a guy go from being arrested and apparently in good condition then to suddenly showing up at a police department in such bad condition that he has to be taken to the hospital, and then we see this picture like this?
I mean, the people of Houston if nothing else deserve some kind of explanation from the police department. All they are saying right now is when he arrived at the police department, he was -- quote -- "unresponsive."
BLOOM: Yes.
SANCHEZ: That is it, unresponsive. I mean...
BLOOM: Well, yes. And the medical testimony is going to get to the bottom of this very, very quick, because now, Rick, we have two stories that diverge very, very clearly.
SANCHEZ: OK.
BLOOM: One is that there has been a beating.
If there's a beating, there is going to be bruising and injuries consistent with the beating. If indeed he just slumped and had some kind of medical problem from natural causes, we're not going to see that. So, we have two divergent stories now. And I think it's going to be answered very clearly by the medical evidence.
SANCHEZ: You are the best. Lisa Bloom, always good to talk to you about this stuff.
BLOOM: Thanks, Rick. I am going to friend you on my Facebook.
SANCHEZ: Oh, thank you. And I will follow you on Twitter as well.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BLOOM: Terrific.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: All right.
Listen, if somebody gave you thousands of dollars, do you think that that would influence you? Would it make you more apt to want to do things for them or help them?
I ask this question for the reason that we have an investigative piece coming up that I want you to see. It is something about the new lawmakers who are arriving in Washington. And that moment they arrive, the first thing they meet are lobbyists, who give them money for their campaigns. Does it influence them? You will hear what they say.
We will be right back with that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: A lot of blogs -- I mean, a lot of information coming in on Twitter.com, as well as some of our other sources where we check what you are saying. We will check those in a moment. Let's not go there yet. Several blogs that I have to talk to you about first.
Regarding the show that we did yesterday, now, it shows the president of the United States getting the cold shoulder at last weekend's G-20 summit. The Moderate Voice blog says it is a piece of -- quote -- "captured on video history that is likely to be run in every video bio dealing with Bush's last days. It is undeniable. He is there, but makes others uneasy," they write -- stop quote.
In fairness, the White House says that President Bush had already shaken hands with those other world leaders the day before.
Now, the other blogs from both ends of the political spectrum cited my interview with Wichita Pastor Mark Holick about the sign in front of his church. It refers to president-elect Barack Obama, calling him a Muslim.
Now, we found this blog especially interesting, though.
Christian Parenting Daily credits this program with bringing that church marquee to its attention, and suggests all Christian parents use that segment that we did on this newscast as a conversation starter with their older kids. The blog cites several Bible verses on leaders and contemporaries of Jesus Christ and suggests parents -- quote -- "have a great discussion and remember it's better and more effective to help your kids think through the issues critically and biblically than it is to tell them how to think."
Good advice.
And just so you know, that is exactly what we aim to do here everyday, is spark a conversation.
Good stuff on the other side. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
That 8-year-old boy in Arizona charged with murdering two people is now being given a furlough. He is going to be released, so he can go home for Thanksgiving to visit his mother. Here is the real part of that story, though. Listen to this. This is the interrogation conducted by police of that little boy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's real important that you tell us what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know if the gun went off by accident.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You walked around have, and then what did you do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then I started walking around the street towards my house. Then I saw the door open and I saw (UNINTELLIGIBLE) right there. And I ran, and I said, "Dad, Dad." And then I ran upstairs, and then I saw him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then you saw him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was blood all over his face.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happened with your dad?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on, tell us the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not. I'm not lying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How about if we have somebody that told us that you might have shot him? How many times do you think you fired the gun?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think twice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think twice? Do you think it could have been more than twice?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I thought it was twice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. You shot your dad twice?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. How many times did that gun shoot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think twice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You think twice. Do you think it could have been more than twice?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I thought it was twice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You shot your dad twice?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And then how many times did that gun shoot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think twice like my dad.
I think I shot my dad, because he was suffering, I think. He was suffering.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I might have shot him. I didn't want him to suffer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't blame you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then I went, and then I went outside and I then I saw -- at first -- and then I saw -- and then I think the gun went off at that time, because he was shaking and I think that time, it went off. And then I went upstairs, and I saw my dad. And I think that I shot him, because he -- he was suffering.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the room that we talk to people and we make a promise to each other that we're only going to tell the truth. OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: The issue here is age. Eight years of age in the case of this young man. Lisa Bloom joining us once again. Are you as troubled by this as most Americans? And I'm being told that we just had a problem with Lisa Bloom. We have lost the signal for Lisa Bloom. So I ask that question of a blank screen, but I thank you, though, blank screen.
We're going to be back in just a little bit. By the way, here is what we will be following up on. I told you that we have a special report on lawmakers arriving in Washington and by the way, we will try to get Lisa Bloom back if we can, but it is a special report on lawmakers arriving in Washington greeted by lobbyist. Do they get their influence? Should they, do they, will they? And what do the lawmakers say? That's coming up with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I asked the question and Lisa Bloom was not there because for some reason the satellite went down, but I got your responses to the question interestingly enough. Instantaneously, being a female cop, "I want those two slim buckets." Now I think that she didn't mean slim, but I think that she meant something else as a matter of fact. Now, let me go over here.
This is another one. "Interrogation of an eight-year-old? Good heavens what needs to be said about this except 'illegal interrogation.'"
With that, let's move on to the segment I had promised you.
This is a story of politicians who are now arriving in Washington, DC. To have their picture taken and to meet with some new and maybe not so familiar faces, lobbyists.
Politicians will always say that I am not influenced by money, so we ask, our cameras were there.
This is a special report filed by Drew Griffin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You may not know Ric Fenton, but you can bet that the freshman Democrats in Congress who turned out at Democratic Party headquarters might not forget him. Fenton is a lobbyist who unabashedly showed up at a fundraiser this morning, introducing the newest Democratic members of Congress to how to old boys do business.
Is this cynically buying access?
RIC FENTON, LOBBYIST, KLEIN AND SAKS GROUP: Absolutely not. We are just educators. We provide an important function as an education function.
GRIFFIN: Fenton is a lobbyist who educates members of Congress on mining interests. He was one of a string of lobbyists and political action committee contributors who responded to this invitation of a new member debt retirement reception. There was even a suggested contribution amount from $2,500 to $20,000, and a dance card so you, the contributor, can make sure you don't miss anyone.
How much money are you giving today?
FENTON: I think we're giving $5,000.
GRIFFIN: To one or a bunch?
FENTON: To several. We go through that fairly thoroughly.
GRIFFIN: Oh, is that right?
Keeping them honest we watched who went to the early morning breakfast which was sponsored by Congressman John Dingell who didn't talk to us, and Congressman Nick Rahall who did.
It seems like the same business as usual, retire the debt and introduce the new members to the old members to the old PAC money.
REP. NICK RAHALL, (D) WV: Well, do you have a better alternative?
GRIFFIN: If this looks, sounds and seems like old fashioned pay to play politics that is because Joan Claybrook of the watchdog group Public Citizen says well, it is.
This is change?
JOAN CLAYBROOK, PUBLIC CITIZEN: Yes, right. This is the old boy network at work. This is all strings attached. They know who gave them money and when key issues come up, key bills, key amendments, these members are going to be approached by these special interests and asked to vote with them, because they gave them money.
GRIFFIN: Majority Leader Steny Hoyer with his arm around the newest member of Congress from Michigan told us it is way overplayed, that members of Congress vote in their donors' interests.
So what are these people who come here with the $5,000 and $10,000 checks, what are they getting if they are not getting access and votes? REP. STENY HOYER, (D) MD: Well, of course, they are getting access, just as a citizen gets access when they go to a town meeting and spend some time there or when they volunteer in a campaign. They have an ear that they can talk to. That's true. But the fact is that you'd be surprised how many people in this room are Democrats first and interest representatives second.
GRIFFIN: No one is saying just how much money was raised.
Did you give a lot of money?
But those new Democrats who may have come to Washington with change on their minds at least left the DNC with some change in their pockets, too.
Drew Griffin, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Well, right away, somebody is watching this report that we just filed for you and they have this comment for us. We will just read the top of it, Johnny on MySpace and not the twitter board. "Lobbyists have pull, why would they give politicians money if they didn't get what they wanted?"
I am going to pose that question to Bob Edgar. He is with Common Cause, an organization dedicated to accountability and taxes for you.
By the way, he was also a lawmaker once. So I am going to ask you the question, you just heard Steny Hoyer say, just because they give us money doesn't mean they expect influence is in any way, true?
BOB EDGAR, PRESIDENT AND CEO, COMMON CAUSE: False. I think the leadership of the House of Representatives and those who co-sponsored this event should be ashamed of theirselves. These new congresspeople coming to Washington. They should not first be exposed to the old boy system. I think Joan Claybrook who is in that piece got it right. This is just business as usual.
And I think this past election talking about change, talking about reform, talking about a fresh start for democracy, and we need to get money out of the politics and this is not a good example of leadership for the House leadership to be showing off to the new and fresh faces in Washington.
SANCHEZ: I am just curious, is one party worse than any other?
EDGAR: No, I think they both bear guilt, but part of the problem is our system. We really need to spread the good virus of public financing. Up in Connecticut during this past election, 81 percent of those running for the statehouse used a public financing system. It works very well.
SANCHEZ: In fact, it would be cheaper. I mean, every report says that if they actually took a little bit of money and equaled it from all of us and we paid for their campaigns, it would be cheaper than what we end up paying to the corporations who give them so much money and then charge us. Did I state that correctly?
EDGAR: You stated it very well. It is actually cheaper in two respects. It's not only cheaper financially, but we want the public officials to serve the public interests and not the special interests. We get a humongous defense budget because of the work of defense lobbyists and the money involved, and we are about to deal with health care across -- for a national system of health care, and that is going to be tainted by all of the medical industry that is putting money into these legislators.
And you can just go down issue by issue, and the very lobbyists that you showed on your program are going to be the people sitting around the committee rooms throughout the spring as we look at trying to fix the economic problems and the health care and energy and environment problems that we face.
SANCHEZ: And it is a vicious circle, because most of the names I have seen that are brought up so far that are a part of the Barack Obama administration are the same people that I have seen tied to these types of lobby deals in the past, not that they are illegal, but they are still lobbyists deals. Bob Edgar, thanks for being with us, and takings through the conversation. I am sure that many of to viewers are taking note.
We are going to be right back with more about what is going on with piracy overseas and a new system of stopping pirates without doing any harm. It is a non-lethal anti-piracy technique. We will share. Stay with.
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SANCHEZ: Point to be made, possibly a good one. What do you think? Before they meet with lobbyists, they should meet with the people who elect them to remind them who their employers are. One of our viewers faithfully watching. Once again, welcome back.
Something else to take note of today. Yesterday I interviewed Pastor Mark Holik who posted a now infamous church sign in front of his churching saying "Obama is a Muslim and it is a sin against our Lord." Well, the pastor was courageous enough to appear and after a spirited argument-slash-interview he said something I've never heard anybody tell me as long as I've been doing television all my years.
He said, if I had it to do over again I would probably do it different. This after our discussion. Watch the interview. It's on my new blog under the headline "The Preacher and the President-Elect". Just got to cnn.com/ricksanchez. There it is.
But here is the point. He may have been misinformed about Obama and the separation of church and state, but in his defense he was not what many of you had written about him. He was not evil or stupid or condescending or insane or self-centered or insane, but he is just a guy who saw it differently and may have been misinformed I will grant you that, but he was big enough to admit his mistakes on national television.
Christians are not perfect. But the good ones are honest. Like he was. Coming up, I want you to take a look at this ...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Majority leader is recognized.
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SANCHEZ: That is Ted Stevens. He is getting an ovation fit for a king or a hero, a beloved elder statesman, but isn't he is a convicted felon? Wait, are they still applauding?
(APPLAUSE)
SANCHEZ: Should he have gotten a polite applause? Talking about Ted Stevens, convicted, he's a felon. Should he have gotten hand shakes, should he have gotten a private meeting? But instead what he got was on national television he got a standing ovation and overtures from the colleagues. Some thought it was appropriate and others cringed as they watched. What is your reaction?
Here is a chance for you to see it yourself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED STEVENS, (R) AK: God bless the United States of America and our president and God bless the Senate and every member of this body. I yield the floor for the last time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The majority leader is recognized.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This goes on and on and on for quite some time. It brought tears to the eyes of many there. Many of you have been saying that it was overblown, that was it overdone and it was almost disrespectful given the fact that he is a convicted felon as you watch this. But then there is Landau who wrote us moments ago on Twitter as he was watching this. Twitter.com going to the twitter board. Here we go, "Stevens' conviction was a travesty. When an 84-year-old deserves respect of his colleagues." One opinion.
Here is something that is tough to look at, the Dow. The numbers as we see them now, don't look good. Down 333 as it stands right now. We will bring you the very latest on this -- why are we losing it? There it is back, 340. Obviously, we will be checking in on this as well. It seems to be a pattern now.
And then of course, piracy in the open seas. And a plan by the British to stop it with any use of lethal force. How do you do that? How do you stop a pirate in the open waters with no lethal force? We have got the man who has come up with the plan. Stay with us, we will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: We welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
There's major news on the piracy front. Norwegian agent official of a shipping group has ordered all 90 of its tankers to immediately avoid the Gulf of Aden and the Suez Canal. That means they're going to have to go all the way around the Horn of Africa. And that means it's going to cost a lot more money to get the fuel or whatever it is that they're bringing over here to us. Which means prices go up. Think about that as you look at these pictures, exclusive video of the pirates that we have done stories on in the past who are now very much in the news especially when they took one of the largest oil tankers ever yesterday, and they're now asking for a ransom and holding it hostage.
Joining us now is someone who knows a little bit about this. Nick Davis. He is with a company that has come up with an anti-piracy device that is non-lethal. In other words, it keeps the pirates away from ships without ever having to attack them in any way. This is interesting. He joins us to take us through this.
Can you explain how this works?
NICK DAVIS, ANTI-PIRACY MARITIME SECURITY SOLUTIONS: Yes. Good afternoon. Basically, the long-range acoustic device and the magnetic audio device are essentially loud hailing systems that are connected to a fairly simple piece of equipment that everybody will know and that's an MP3 player.
SANCHEZ: So you are literally creating noise in such loud decibels that it keeps any pirates or would be pirates from coming and menacing the ship?
DAVIS: We can keep pirates on average about 500 meters away from the ship before they can't take anymore.
SANCHEZ: If you do that, and it's only 300 or 500 feet, then doesn't hurt the pirates I guess, right? So what do they do? Do they go onto the next ship?
DAVIS: Absolutely. Unfortunately, all we do is displace the threat to the next vessel that is normally behind us doesn't have security. And obviously, the acoustic devices are just one part of the sort of denial boarding system and process that our teams employ.
SANCHEZ: You use three men on a ship with nothing but acoustic devices that put out a terrible sound and what, water cannons?
DAVIS: We use water cannons, we increase the speed of the ship as best we can. We do zig-zag maneuvers. We sound the general alarm. We call the coalition forces. We will have grease all around the back of the ship to prevent them being able to sort of get up and may well be slipping back in the water and quite often, we'd also put barbed wire around the back, as well.
SANCHEZ: You're looking pictures at where all of these have been taking place. This is out of control. You're telling me, by the way, that you don't have a gun? You guys are not armed so they can protect themselves if these guys get on board?
DAVIS: The regulations worldwide and the different requirements in each country for carrying armed weapons on board a ship is just -- it's impossible to be able to travel the world oceans and be able to take a firearm with you. So there is just no way that civilian boats should have these weapons. Otherwise, they're no different from the pirates themselves.
SANCHEZ: It seems in and of itself crazy you wouldn't be able to do something like that when someone is attacking you but we understand it.
Interesting concept. Great explanation. We thank you for it.
And one of our smart aleck providers of information to our newscast is joining us now from Facebook. They say wait a minute. John Robinson says, "They've had a non-lethal pirate stopping technique for centuries. It's called rum. Aaarrrr!" Did I get that wrong? Sorry. Arrr!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aarrr!
SANCHEZ: Everybody's a comedian. We'll be right back with the fix and what they're saying on "The View." my wife's favorite show. Not this one. We'll be right back.
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SANCHEZ: Wolf Blitzer and THE SITUATION ROOM.
Take it away, Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Rick.
At the top of the hour, no vote today. Democrats in Congress are demanding answers from the auto companies saying they'll get no help unless they show business plans. But who will be blamed if the companies collapse?
Also, a billionaire heiress who was at the top of the list for Barack Obama's Cabinet won't be part of his team after all. Is Obama's vetting process simply too complicated? And the current secretary of defense tells his team not to the spill any secrets. Why the transition team is being kept out of some high level discussions. All that, Rick, and a lot more coming up right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much, Wolf. We'll look forward to it.
By the way, for those of you who missed some of the shows you like to see because your DVR doesn't work or maybe you had to work too much in the last couple of days, here now "Chelsea, Lately" and "The View."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": About famous people. Last night, it was Robert stack from Elliot Ness. This is true. The other night I had a dream that somebody gave me a diagnosis I had six months to live. And guess who the doctor was? Robert de Niro. Robert de Niro. Like you know, you're going to go soon. I dreamt it. I don't know, I've been dreaming about people.
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": At least he was not your GYN.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That goes without saying.
STEPHEN COLBERT, "THE COLBERT REPORT": Things are going terribly for the auto industry. Even the girl on truck mud flaps has been forced to start temping for extra cash.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We've got plenty of talking about what we've had on the air right now. I want to share some of the interesting comments that we've been getting in. These are coming in on twitter.com. Here we go.
Your report about the lobbyists, that was Drew Griffin's special report as usual. Drew doing good work, "Makes me sick. It goes to show how sick America really is." He says, "There is no hope."
"Well, that's pretty cool if they can actually stop those pirates without any weapon or any lethal devices."
And then finally, Lafountain says, "I hear Voinovich," referring to the congressman from, Ohio, "building a proposal, House needs to find its center."
Interesting. That most Americans as they watch this newscast are still convinced that somehow this new bailout is not something they're going to be going along with it. And obviously it seems to be recognized as well.
Let's check and see what's going on in the market right now by the way with investors. You wonder if it has an effect on them, too. And it doesn't look good, 444 down is what the Dow is doing right now.
Again, this is a situation that we've been following for several days now. We're not seeing at least a respite of good news, at least as far as the market's concerned. We're well below 8,000 at this point. Who knows how far it will go.
Wolf Blitzer is going to be taking us into the next hour now to bring us up to date on not only the political stories but obviously the economic fallout of these, as well there's the belt. With that, I go to Ireland on vacation. Wolf Blitzer standing by.
Wolf, what you got?
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Rick.
