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President Bush Attends APEC Summit; Barack Obama Expected to Appoint Key Cabinet Positions Soon; G.M. Workers Worried About Their Jobs
Aired November 22, 2008 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right. This is an annual meeting, but it's made urgent this year because of the growing world economic crisis. And time is short. The stakes are high.
Juan Carlos Lopez is a correspondent with "CNN ESPANOLA" and he's covering the summit for us. He joins us now from Lima. So, Juan, can we safely assume that anything concrete will indeed come from this or is it strictly diplomacy?
JUAN CARLOS LOPEZ, CNN ESPANOL CORRESPONDENT: It's a little bit of both. Leaders attending the APEC summit -- and it's a CEO summit -- understand that whatever happens to the economy, if Americans don't buy their products they're in trouble.
So, even know they know there's an incoming administration, they're listening to President Bush. And president Bush will have a very busy day. He'll meet with the prime minister of Japan, the president of South Korea. And he will also meet with the Russian president. So it will be a busy day, but everybody paying a lot of attention to Mr. Bush.
WHITFIELD: Kind of like a swan song too though because this is the last time, as the leader of the free world, that he'll be meeting with these leaders. Is there any real change in tone? Are you sensing here, that people are saying their good-byes to him, knowing that the next administration is right around the corner?
LOPEZ: I think they understand that the solution to that crisis has to start now and President Bush is setting the ground for President-elect Obama. So I think that's a tone we're seeing. We don't see this being perceived as a lame-duck president attending a meeting saying good-bye. and president Bush in a speech made it clear that he still will be the president for two months.
WHITFIELD: Juan Carlos, thanks so much, joining us there from Lima, Peru.
LOPEZ: My pleasure.
WHITFIELD: Here in the U.S., Washington is taking a major step to pump up the battered financial system. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation will guarantee as much as $1.4 trillion in debt carried by American banks. Federal regulators also will make it easier for private investors to buy failed banks seized by the government. And another major victim of the financial mess, Citigroup. Pressure is building to sell all or part of the company. Reports yesterday said the bank's board of directors was meeting to consider whether to break up the company.
And adding fuel to the crisis, the bank's stock fell below $4 a share yesterday and also causing considerable distress. The risky debt sitting on bank's balance sheet, debt that could eventually turn into huge losses.
President-elect Barack Obama is unveiling a plan to jump-start the economy by creating 2.5 million jobs in the next two years. In the weekly Democratic radio address, Obama said his plan will employ American workers to rebuild the nation's roads and bridges, and modernize schools and create alternative energy sources. Projects that, Obama insists, will lay the groundwork for lasting, economic prosperity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know that passing this plan won't be easy. I will need and seek support from Republicans and Democrats. And I'll be welcome to ideas and suggestions from both sides of the aisle.
But what is not negotiable is the need for immediate action. Right now there are millions of mothers and fathers who are lying awake at night wondering if next week's paycheck will cover next month's bills. There are Americans showing up to work in the morning only to have cleared out their desks by the afternoon. Retirees are watching their life savings disappear. and students are seeing their college dreams deferred. These Americans need help, and they need it now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: The president-elect is expected to announce several cabinet nominations soon, including filling the critical position of treasury secretary.
CNN's Ed Henry is in Chicago. So what kinds of names are we hearing now?
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Fred.
Obviously, the job of treasury secretary has taken on new prominence because of this international financial crisis. And two sources close to the transition tell CNN that Tim Geithner, the head of the New York Fed, is now track to be named treasury secretary as early as Monday. The point being that the Obama transition team wants to sort of reassure the markets, put some confidence in the markets. Tim Geithner, a very well-known quantity on Wall Street, running the New York Fed.
And after they deal with economic security by laying out their team early next week, after Thanksgiving, we expect they'll layout the national security team. And what's interesting there is they're putting together not just perhaps a team of rivals but a team of real high-powered players. and a lot of people are wondering how they'll all mesh together.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): A power player on the world stage, a retired four-star general, and maybe president Bush's defense secretary, too. Even a former aid to Donald Rumsfeld is impressed with the national security team that President-elect Barack Obama seems to be putting together.
RAY DUBOIS, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: You would have to conclude these are as credible and competent a set of individuals as you will get.
HENRY: Three transition aides tell CNN, Senator Hillary Clinton, who supported the war in Iraq, is in line to be nominated as secretary of state.
Two sources close to the transition reveal retired Marine General Jim Jones, who also backed the war, is the leading choice to be national security adviser. Picking a military man could have the fingerprint of Brent Scowcroft, a retired general himself, who was national security adviser in the Republican White House, and is now providing counsel to Obama. Scowcroft is close to current Defense Secretary Robert Gates, fueling the speculation the man implementing President Bush's Iraq policy may stay onboard.
The talk of so many hawks in senior roles is starting to alarm anti-war Democrats who nonetheless say they have faith the president- elect himself will draw the policy.
TOM ANDREWS, WIN WITHOUT WAR: He's a very skilled guy, and I think he'll make the right decision. But for us, again, the bottom line is putting people in place that will actually fulfill the mission. Step one, get us out of Iraq within 16 months.
HENRY: There's also the question of whether a so-called team of rivals can get combustible. Remember the first years of the Bush administration?
DUBOIS: These are individuals not lacking in ego. And it will be important that president Obama be able to manage those egos in a way that, not only does the policy that he espouses get appropriately formulated and articulated, but most importantly, implemented.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Senior aides say the president-elect is confident he can keep the power players together. Otherwise, he wouldn't be picking them. and as for liberal concerns about the war, they insist that the president-elect has not changed his views and will not be changing his views. He still plans to pull out combat troops within 16 month -- Fred?
WHITFIELD: Ed Henry, thanks so much in Chicago.
Another big issue concerning so many Americans, American automakers. General Motors, for example, appears to have heard the order from congressional Democrats last week. The automaker says that it will meet a congressional deadline for detailed reports on how it plans to survive.
Democratic leaders told the big three that before they approve a $25 billion loan, G.M., Ford and Chrysler must spell out how the government would be repaid. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid have given the big three until December 2nd to respond.
Meantime, G.M. workers are worrying about their jobs, but so are retirees. They're worried about their benefits. They have a lot of the same concerns.
Here now is senior correspondent, Allan Chernoff.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The General Motors factory, where George Hall worked 33 years, is gone, recently bulldozed. George hopes the same fate doesn't lie ahead for the entire company, especially since his health insurance and pension still rely upon G.M.
GEORGE HALL, FORMER GENERAL MOTORS EMPLOYEE: Most everybody that's ever worked here, you worked on the promise that your pension was going to be secure. Now you're finding out that promise was a lie, and that is not going to be secure.
CHERNOFF: Not only is George worried about his financial security, he's angry, believing the auto chief executive did an awful job asking Washington for help.
HALL: They didn't present themselves in a humble way. They presented themselves as we're these fat cats and we need the money, give it to us.
CHERNOFF: Avery Hall is a high school junior who plans to attend college, a major expense confronting George and his wife, Garnet, a telecom salesperson.
Today, George works construction, doing home improvements, but it doesn't pay like his old job of material handler at the factory, where he earned about $60,000 a year.
(on camera): About a million people in the united states rely on General Motors for healthcare insurance, active employees, their families and retirees, thousands and thousands of whom used to work right here.
(voice-over): If G.M. were to go bankrupt, those health benefits would be in jeopardy. G.M.'s pension plan is safer. It's overfunded for salaried retirees and slightly underfunded for hourly retirees. HALL: If I lose it right now, I'm going to be in terrible trouble and my family is going to be in terrible trouble.
CHERNOFF: George's dad, Eddie, worked at the factory for 42 years and believed the job with G.M. was as stable is as America offered.
Now George fears, if Washington doesn't lend a hand, the whole family will lose its final support from the American icon that employed them for decades.
Allan Chernoff, CNN, Linden, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Talk about bad timing, the Los Angeles auto show is under way this weekend amid the big three mess and horrible sales overall, but all is not doom and gloom thanks to the competition from overseas. We'll show you what's making a big splash later on this hour.
And a powerful earthquake struck waters off western Indonesia today. Local officials report that no injuries or damages assessed as of yet. They say there was no risk of a tsunami. The U.S. Geological Survey says the quake had a preliminary magnitude of 6.8. And we'll keep you updated as more information becomes available.
A prescription drug company has become the target of a shakedown. What is happening?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: It's a company that handles medical prescriptions for about one in every six Americans and, if you're one of them, you need to be on guard. The company is being targeted by a shakedown. and your personal information just might be at stake.
CNN's Brian Todd has details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An attempted shakedown of a company that handles about 500 million drug prescriptions a year for some 50 million people, one out of every six Americans. Express scripts, third largest processor of prescriptions in the U.S., says one or more extortionists are making an explicit threat if the company doesn't pay a certain amount of money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This criminal has threatened to expose millions of patient records. And we're taking that very seriously. And we're doing everything we can to support our clients and our members in this situation.
TODD: An Express Scripts official tells us the extortionist, as if to show they mean business, sent the company a letter last month with the personal information of 75 members, names, dates of birth, social security numbers, in some cases, prescription information. Letters were then sent to some of Express Scripts' clients. The St. Louis-based company handles prescriptions for entities like unions, employers and health management companies.
Express Scripts won't reveal what the letter and won't say how much money the perpetrators want, but says it has no intention of paying.
RAY DICKENSON, INTERNET SECURITY EXPERT, AUTHENTIUM: I applaud them for not paying the ransom and going public, and getting this into the hands of law enforcement, and informing their customers so each of their customers can do something about protecting any further damage from this breach.
TODD: Security experts say many companies do pay these ransoms.
Express Scripts tells CNN it's not sure how much data has actually been stolen, but doesn't have evidence yet that any personal information has been expose said or otherwise misused, aside from being included in those letters.
Express Scripts says it's cooperating with the FBI in the case and conducting its own investigation.
The FBI won't comment.
(on camera): A company official says they're not ruling out the possibility of an inside job. And they won't say if they think this information was stolen electronically. But Internet security experts say it's a safe bet this material was hacked.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Life on the streets of New Orleans. A homicide detective takes Soledad O'Brien on a tour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: It's been more than three years since Hurricane Katrina wiped out law and order in New Orleans. The city has still not recovered. It has the highest murder rate in the nation and many residents are just too afraid to return.
Our Soledad O'Brien spent time with some of the homicide detectives trying to clean up the streets one crime at a time.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Fred, our latest documentary focuses a spotlight on the city of New Orleans, a city that I love. And we have the opportunity to follow New Orleans police detectives as they try to deal with the crime problem there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN (voice-over): April 17th, Guy McQuan (ph) is murdered in broad daylight just one block from an elementary school. He had just turned 20.
On a big case like this, lead detective, Harold Roshan, and his partner, Anthony Pardo, can expect to work a 30-hour shift.
HAROLD ROSHAN, NEW ORLEANS DETECTIVE: Can I have the item number for signal 30.
O'BRIEN: Signal 30, cop lingo for homicide.
ROSHAN: He was shot multiple times.
PRADO: Got it. Got it. Here we go.
O'BRIEN: There are witnesses and plenty of evidence. AK-47 and 9 millimeter pistol rounds are scattered across the crime scene.
ROSHAN: Whoever finds whoever first.
(CROSSTALK)
PRADO: ... going to stake him down.
O'BRIEN: Detectives Roshan and Pardo hope to make an arrest tonight. They go house to house in search of a murder weapon.
ROSHAN: That could be a crack house. That could be a crack house.
SGT. JOSEPH CATALANOTTO, NEW ORLEANS POLICE DEPARTMENT, HOMICIDE: Police!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE DETECTIVE: Police!
O'BRIEN: Open doors lead nowhere.
Around 3 a.m. ...
CATALANOTTO: It's over for tonight. We have some specific things that we need to do that can't happen tonight. It can only happen in the morning. And so we go home and refuel.
O'BRIEN: Roshan and Pardo run into a wall of silence.
(on camera): So how many eyewitnesses would you estimate you had on this block?
ROSHAN: For the information we received, probably maybe 15 people outside, 15.
O'BRIEN: 15, 20 people?
ROSHAN: Nobody will say anything.
O'BRIEN: Really? What do they tell you?
ROSHAN: I didn't see anything. O'BRIEN: Why do you think they're reluctant to talk?
ROSHAN: Fear.
O'BRIEN: Yes, retaliation?
ROSHAN: Absolutely.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Fred, state has a new inspector general, and much focus now, it's fair to say, on trying to figure out how they can get a grip on the crime, really literally, one crime at a time -- Fred?
WHITFIELD: Soledad, thanks so much.
Well, New Orleans may have survived Hurricane Katrina, and now this crime, corruption and bureaucracy, a huge problem. You'll want to watch this special report tonight and tomorrow. 8 p.m., CNN presents "One Crime at a Time," taking a critical look at the factors that plague New Orleans and endanger its future.
Behind the headlines, what happens when a G.M. plant closes?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: The international money crisis has many Americans thinking twice about taking a vacation abroad. But Richelle Carey has a few tips on how to keep you on the go on a budget.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHELLE CAREY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Americans deal with the economic downturn, an international vacation may seem like a luxury many just can't afford. But there are ways to see the world and save if you're ready to set sail.
BETSY SELL, AAA: Taking a cruise is a great way to go. You pay in dollars so you know ahead of time what it will cost you. So your accommodations are included and your three meals are included.
CAREY: Awarding changes and currency exchange rate may be a real benefit, but you may want to finalize plans as soon as possible.
SELL: While it lasts, you might be able to get a bargain, for example, on a cruise. But there's always the risk you may not get the departure you want or the cabin you want.
CAREY: And don't forget a passport or other documentation. Get some help from a travel agent to know what you need to have and when.
SELL: If you go to Africa, you need shots. If you go to some eastern European countries, you need a visa. If you got to Russia, you need a visa. All that takes time.
(END VIDEOTAPE) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Hello, again. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, at the CNN Center in Atlanta, checking our top stories.
No tsunami, injuries or damage, that's the latest from officials in Indonesia after a powerful earthquake hit just off the western part of the island nation. The U.S. Geological Survey says the quake had a magnitude 6.8.
And no quick fixes, that's the word from President-elect Obama today. He said his economic rebuilding plans will take time and patience. Delivering the weekly Democratic radio address, Obama says his plan will create 2.5 million new jobs and lay the foundation for strong and growing economy.
The president-elect and Democratic congressional leaders support some kind of financial aid for the big three automaker. But many Republican leaders suggest bankruptcy just might be best. Well, this week Congress heard from the troubled three who were asking for a total of $25 billion in taxpayer funds to keep them a float until 2010. And that's a key date, because that's when Ford, Chrysler and G.M. are slated to start saving money on health care coverage for retirees. It's also the year when car sales are expected to pick up, they say.
If the auto industry does not find some way out of this mess, 1.6 million jobs could be lost. 266,000 employees, who work directly for the auto companies could be in trouble, and another 47,000 come from the dealerships that would be out of business. Another 610,000 auto supplier jobs would also be impacted, all of that, totally the nearly two million jobs.
So with automakers on the verge of collapse, many factories are already being closed in the Midwest and life is looking increasingly grim for many.
Gary Tuchman has the story of the heartbreak behind the headlines.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When a decision is made in the sky scraper in Detroit, it can change life in towns far away, very badly, very quickly.
In the small town of Lorraine, Ohio, near Dayton, it's easy to figure out what industry is the lifeblood here. And that's before you see this place, the G.M. plant, the town's dominant employee where more than 4,000 people worked in its heyday and 1,000 now.
But a decision has come from Detroit. This factory is closing, forever, two days before Christmas.
What does that mean for the rest of this town? Aim Goodwin (ph) is a local union leader. AIM GOODWIN, LOCAL UNION LEADER: It's really bad, very bad.
TUCHMAN: At a different factory, the Jamestown-Lorraine plant, not owned by G.M., they store and transport car parts to the G.M. facility. Certainly, they can ship parts to other G.M. plants or other car companies. Right?
TONY MURPHY, R.M. SUPPLIER EMPLOYEE: What am I going to do? That was my very first reaction.
TUCHMAN: One, Tony Murphy works here as a forklift driver. When that G.M. plant shuts its door, the plant where he works will close forever. He and more than 60 others will have to find new jobs in a region where there are fewer and fewer.
(on camera): Have you started working for a job already.
MURPHY: Oh, yes. I've been to an interview before.
TUCHMAN: How did it go?
MURPHY: I don't know. They haven't called me back, so I guess it didn't go too well.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): The labor contract at the small supply plants has no provision for any severance. And the cheap medical insurance disappears the day after they walk out of the factory for the last time.
MINCHELLE WASHINGTON, G.M. SUPPLIER EMPLOYEE: I might end up losing my car. I don't want to lose my house, but I know I might end up losing my car.
TUCHMAN: Minshelle Washington is a single mother.
WASHINGTON: Drawings, Jada (ph) made a drawing at school.
TUCHMAN: A scared single mother.
(on camera): So what happens if you get sick or your daughter gets sick?
WASHINGTON: That's the bad part because, if I get sick, it's downhill because I have diabetes. And I've got enough medicine probable for an extra month after my insurance is gone.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Even for businesses that have nothing to do with cars, the future is frightening. The Upper Deck Restaurant and Bar right next to the G.M. plant used to be jammed every day at lunch. Now you can almost hear crickets.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I used to have a bartender, plus three waitresses at lunch. Now, we have one bartender and she waitresses.
TUCHMAN: Back at the parts factory, the employees seem to understand why this man, the owner, is pulling the plug. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no other choice but to go down because there's nowhere to send the material.
TUCHMAN (on camera): How does that make you feel, sir, for your employees?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, it hurts like hell.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): What the employees don't seem to understand ...
(on camera): Who are you angry at?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The executives at GM.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): ...are the decisions made in the skyscraper.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Moraine, Ohio.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: U.S. car sales are coming off their worst month in a quarter century and dealerships are now closing across the country. So, with the 2008 auto show under way right now in Los Angeles, you might ask, what's there to get all revved up about anyway?
CNN's Ted Rowlands is there and I have to wonder whether the planners there expect a lot of people to show up?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, they are expecting more than a million people, actually, over the auto show to come here to Los Angeles and take part in this and they're hoping that the enthusiasm which an auto show apparently has will still translate.
But I got to tell you, Fredricka, it is very obvious. This is not the is average auto show. This is much different this year. There is a -- a sort of two things going on. You've got the enthusiasm of new products being unveiled and then, you have reality. You have the fact that the auto industry is having so many problems right now.
In fact, this morning in Minnesota, 400 people wake up today, no job because a major dealership yesterday announced that they're laying off 400 people and closing six dealerships, Denny Hecker in Minneapolis, St. Paul, announcing that yesterday.
The real effects of the downturn in the economy specifically to this industry and make no bones about it. Everybody is being affected. It's the imports, it's the Big Three obviously are schilling for money on Capitol Hill, they're in major trouble. But the entire industry is down, so it's a very bizarre auto show, to say the least.
That said, the show is going on and the attitude is from the dealers, well -- or the manufacturers, they're going to come back at some point. At some point, people are going to need a new car, so let's get our products out here and that's what we've seen here.
Things that are making an impact, kind of getting the oohs and the ahhs, the speed still attracts a lot of crowds, but more the hybrids and the green vehicles which over the years have dominated these shows. Ford has a Fusion hybrid out, we're in the Ford area right now. The Chevy Volt, of course Chevy is investing a lot in this. That is getting a lot of attention, available in 2010, they hope. They better have it available because they've staked a lot on it. The Mini Cooper has an all electric vehicle out. A lot of people have been hovering around that as well.
We talked to a bunch of people at the auto show, a lot of them come here to see the new technology. We asked a few of them what they are looking for in a car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Efficiency, dependability. You know, if they can make cars that have 500 to 600 horsepower, they have the engineering and technology to do that, then they should be able to make cars that all get 30 to 35 miles to the gallon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: And Fredricka, other things that people really are interested in is the interior. People spend a lot of time in their cars, especially here in Los Angeles, unfortunately.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
ROWLANDS: And it's the little things, the navigation and the ability to use the steering wheel to make a phone call home. Those things, you're seeing that in every model. It used to be just the high-end models, now they're in all the models.
And I tell you, it's -- you know, people are really into that and they like to get into the car. So, you know, the big question, when are the consumers actually going take these things from the showrooms and put them in their garages? Who knows?
WHITFIELD: Yes, and maybe that's the difference because of this economy and the auto industry right now is that when a lot of people come to the auto shows, if they even come to the auto shows, it's really just to fantasize and just to sit in the cars, just to look at them, but really not look at them in terms of, hey, I want that in the near future.
ROWLANDS: Right. Realistically ...
WHITFIELD: Or can't afford that.
ROWLANDS: ...are they coming to -- yes, can I afford it? Am I at a position right now to buy a new car? The bottom line is a lot of people are holding their cars right now, getting another year or two out of them, normally they may not have. And credit, too, to get a car loan, not as easy as it used to be. WHITFIELD: Right.
ROWLANDS: So, a lot of different factors here and the manufacturers are just holding on, holding on literally, in some cases.
But one other point we just want to make sure. It's not just U.S. automakers, everybody's feeling it. You could sense it at the auto show here.
WHITFIELD: Yes, everyone's taking the hit.
All right, well, we're going to be checking with you throughout the day to just see, if indeed people show up there at this auto show there in Los Angeles through the weekend. Thanks so much, Ted, appreciate it.
In the meantime, next week at this time, retailers will be -- begin their assessments of just how well or badly they did on Black Friday, that's the day after Thanksgiving that signals the start of the holiday shopping season. Well, should retailers be nervous?
Cheryl Tan is with the "Wall Street Journal." She's joining us now from New York. Good to see you.
CHERYL TAN, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Hi, good to see you, too.
WHITFIELD: So, Cheryl, I wonder if retailers are offering some, just really out of this world incentives to get people in to shop because people are holding on tight to their money right now.
TAN: You know, what you're seeing out there is that retailers are really trying to get people in stores this year. So, you're seeing big discounts on a broader array of merchandise. Some retailers are really trying to get market share from other retailers this season.
So, they're discounting on items that they've never put on sale before. Kohls, for example, this Friday is putting on sale items from its Vera Wang line that it does and a line that's done by "Elle Magazine" and last Black Friday, they didn't put any of those items on sale.
WHITFIELD: Wow, and so, it's not just those retailers with the big, huge, you know, opening up at midnight or 6:00 a.m., people line up and that's the only way you're going to get 20 percent off, 30 percent off. But now, we're seeing a lot of these retailers are going to trickle these kind of figures throughout the day or maybe even the whole weekend?
TAN: Exactly. Some retailers are opening earlier that haven't done so before. Old Navy, Gap, Banana Republic are opening some stores at midnight.
WHITFIELD: And is that super lucrative? Are these retailers finding that that really is key? TAN: Well, they do get some people in, and if you offer incentives like Old Navy, for example, they're offering people MP3 players, the first people who come in at midnight, if you spend $20 ...
WHITFIELD: Really rewarding people.
TAN: Yes, so they're really, really trying hard to get people in this year.
WHITFIELD: And what about Web sales?
TAN: Web sales are doing -- people are hoping that Web sales will do better, will be a bright spot, but coming into the holiday season, they've been a little disappointing so far. They're slower than they were last year. Growth in October is only one percent and a big reason is that households with incomes $100,000 and under are really not -- have really scaled back on spending online.
WHITFIELD: Yes, and I wonder about, you know, gift cards. Last year and the year before, gift cards were the hip, happening thing, everybody wanted to do that, it was easy. But now, folks are so nervous about whether a retailer will be around after December 31st. Are people trying to, you know, hold on to these things, gift cards or no?
TAN: Well, gift cards this year are expected to pose the first decrease in six years since the National Retail Federation has been tracking those numbers. They're expected to drop by 5.6 percent. And that's a big deal for retailers because a lot of them count on gift cards to drive people into stores after Christmas in January. And the big thing with gift cards, too, is that when customers come in with gift cards, they tend to spend more than the amount that they've been given.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
TAN: So, people are watching that very carefully.
WHITFIELD: And you know, just a month ago, we heard from Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue, all those higher-end retail stores, they were saying that they were taking a hit. And then, just thumbing through the newspapers this week, seeing a lot of high-end retailers, designers, shops, et cetera are offering sales like they never have before. What's happening to that luxury end?
TAN: That's very true. Saks just this week said that they were doing steep discounting. They're also offering deals that they've not offered before. Saks says that it has a deal now where if you spend more than $2,000 in a day on your credit card, you don't have to pay interest or make the payment for a year. So, they're trying to get people in stores with deals other than discounting.
WHITFIELD: But then credit cards, people are trying to stay away from that this holiday season, right?
TAN: Exactly, yes.
WHITFIELD: For the most part. If you have it, and -- you know, in the form of cash, then you can buy it, if not, forget it, you're not getting it.
TAN: Yes, yes. So, it'll be an interesting Christmas. We're -- the Retail Federation is predicting that sales will only increase 2.2 percent and that's the smallest growth since 2002. So, we'll see.
WHITFIELD: All right, Cheryl Tan, thanks so much. I know I'm one of the last people who actually thumbs through the newspapers, so I know it's all about digital.
TAN: We like to hear that.
WHITFIELD: But I still like the feel of the paper, so I see those ads.
TAN: That sounds great to me.
WHITFIELD: OK, Cheryl Tan, the "Wall Street Journal." Thanks so much, appreciate it.
TAN: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: And of course, we want to hear from you, you the shopper, how will are you going to change the way you spend or alter the way you spend or maybe you're not spending at all this holiday season. We want to hear about what you're doing. E-mail us at weekends@CNN.com and we'll be reading your comments later on in the day.
So, what happens now to all those kids who were dropped off in Nebraska? You know about that law, folks who were just fed up with their kids. Avery and Richard, they're chomping at the bit, they can't wait to tell us all about the new alterations that have been made in that Nebraska law, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right, so much, so little time. We've got so many legal cases we want to delve into and that's when we call upon our Avery and Richard because they're so good at just cutting to the chase right away and getting through all of them. So, let's give it a shot.
Avery Friedman, civil rights attorney and law professor. Good to see you.
AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Richard Herman, a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor, good to see you as well -- joining us from Las Vegas no less this weekend. I tell you, you just really get around.
RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hey, Fred, you're beaming today.
WHITFIELD: What's that?
HERMAN: You're beaming today, Fred.
WHITFIELD: I am?
HERMAN: You're beaming today.
WHITFIELD: Oh, so that's nice.
HERMAN: Yes.
WHITFIELD: Very nice of you, thank you.
FRIEDMAN: She's lit up for Thanksgiving is what's going on.
HERMAN: Yes.
WHITFIELD: I'm ready for the holiday season. Just where are the ornaments? All right, thanks so much.
All right, let's talk about Nebraska and this case. So many parents who dumped off their kid -- I use the word dump, a lot of parents say you know what, they were just fed up and they needed help. So, they left their kids for the state to take care of and now, you've got a revision in the law, Avery, which says no kids older than 30- days-old. So now, what do you do with the so many children, many of whom are teens, who have been dropped off?
FRIEDMAN: Yes, dumped actually is the right word. Now, they're the lost boys and girls. There's about 35 of them. But you know what, just like the Clarence Thomas case transfixed America on sexual harassment, the screw-up in Nebraska tells us, Fredricka, that we have a serious problem with mental illness and young people. The fact is that no one knows what to do. Many of these young people are seriously mentally ill, are dangerously mentally ill, to be honest with you. And there is no ...
WHITFIELD: Yes, some of the parents said, you know what, they feared for their own lives ...
FRIEDMAN: Right.
WHITFIELD: ...or their other children's lives.
FRIEDMAN: Now, they're in Omaha and Lincoln.
WHITFIELD: And so -- so Richard, let me bring you in on this. You know, what about these parents, then, who left their kids, might they be facing charges themselves for abandoning their children?
HERMAN: No, when the statute was enacted, it allowed for parents a safe haven to drop off their "children" and Nebraska failed to define children. And now, they define children as more than 30-days- old, and that's the prohibition on it. But how sad is this ... WHITFIELD: Yes.
HERMAN: ...for a parent to take a child and just try to get rid of their children? It's unbelievable. The 35 ...
FRIEDMAN: Well, actually -- I ...
WHITFIELD: Oh, it is sad, but it also doesn't address a much bigger problem, right, gentlemen, that there are a lot of families that are just conflicted, so inundated ...
FRIEDMAN: They don't know what to do.
WHITFIELD: ...there are lots of pressures and just stuff is going on that isn't being addressed.
FRIEDMAN: Well, I actually disagree with Richard in a small way. He's right on the criminal end, but I think it's clear in Nebraska that if you drop your kid off, you may be facing civil consequences in terms of neglect or abuse. So, it's really unresolved right now and it does focus, Fredricka ...
WHITFIELD: OK.
FRIEDMAN: ...on the issue of mental illness.
WHITFIELD: All right, and I'm almost breaking my promise that we got a lot of cases to get through ...
FRIEDMAN: Right.
WHITFIELD: ...and I was only to give you guys a little bit of time, but that is just so interesting.
All right, so let's talk about Arizona now. This too is very sad. An eight-year-old kid accused of shooting his dad and a friend in the house and apparently, authorities interviewed this child without a lawyer present.
FRIEDMAN: Right.
WHITFIELD: And so, Richard, this was videotaped. It seems to me the case is probably going to be thrown out, right?
HERMAN: That's pretty fair, huh, Fred?
WHITFIELD: I think, well ...
HERMAN: They're sitting there with a third grader ...
WHITFIELD: Without representation, right?
HERMAN: ...with two police officers. Yes, two police officers with guns, he's sitting there, a third grader without a parent, without a guardian, without a lawyer, without having read any rights and is being interrogated. I mean, it's ridiculous. It's going to be thrown out.
I understand that they withdrew the murder charges against this boy already. So, he's going to be tried as a juvenile for some sort of homicide, probably a reckless or an accidental homicide in the house with a gun and that's where the case is going. It's outrageous conduct.
FRIEDMAN: Yes, and bottom line -- the bottom line is a Patsy (ph) County sheriff, the sheriff there wants to try the eight-year-old as an adult and actually, Fredricka, you nailed it. The problem is why not do it right? Why in the world are they doing an interview?
WHITFIELD: And they knew better. I mean, they kind of knew that they were potentially blowing it there.
FRIEDMAN: Right. Well, they got excited -- yes.
WHITFIELD: All right, let's talk about Guantanamo.
HERMAN: It's all going to be suppressed.
WHITFIELD: OK, all right.
FRIEDMAN: Yes, absolutely.
WHITFIELD: I know we'll be talking about it again. Guantanamo, a federal judge says five of the detainees, bye-bye, we don't have a case against you. Is this just the tip of the iceberg, Avery?
FRIEDMAN: Yes, there are 250 left in Guantanamo. There's about 20, 25 hard -- or hard guys, bad guys. They'll be kept. Ironically, the guy, Bumedian (ph) who went -- who was the plaintiff (ph) in the Supreme Court -- that went to the Supreme Court on habeas corpus is one of the guys that's on his way out.
WHITFIELD: All right. eHarmony ...
HERMAN: Hey, Fred, you were right ...
WHITFIELD: Oh, go ahead.
HERMAN: ...this is -- this is the tip of the iceberg. Judge Leon said, look, I'm not going to keep these seven guys because there's only one unidentified person who says that they're enemy combatants. That's all the evidence that was presented. The judge did exactly what I said last week was going to happen. The U.S. courts are going to take over and if the government doesn't have their case lined up, these people are going to be freed.
WHITFIELD: OK, and here's a case of is this a private business or is this a public service?
FRIEDMAN: Love this.
WHITFIELD: eHarmony, a matchmaking, I guess, Web site ...
FRIEDMAN: Right.
WHITFIELD: ...has been primarily geared toward heterosexuals. But a gay man in New Jersey managed to convince the court that wait a minute, I'm being discriminated against ...
FRIEDMAN: Yes.
WHITFIELD: ...because this does not, you know, cater to me.
FRIEDMAN: Right. Actually ...
WHITFIELD: How do you do that when this is a private business? It's not a public service, right?
FRIEDMAN: Well, here's the bottom line. New Jersey is one of the few states that have anti-discrimination laws in public accommodations. They've been hooking up Adam and Eve, now they want to have to hook up Adam and Steve. That is -- it is not a constitutional issue. It is simply a law in New Jersey. No presidential effect whatsoever.
WHITFIELD: Wow.
HERMAN: It's outrageous. It's outrageous.
FRIEDMAN: Come on.
HERMAN: I can't believe they forced them to do this, but you know what?
FRIEDMAN: Forced them, it's the law.
HERMAN: They're going to end up making a lot of money ...
WHITFIELD: Well, and it also sounds like ...
HERMAN: ...because they opened up the division.
WHITFIELD: ...a whole lot of other businesses are going to now open up then, too.
FRIEDMAN: Yes, the whole ...
WHITFIELD: Because there's probably matchmaking services mostly for homosexuals.
FRIEDMAN: Good for New Jersey.
WHITFIELD: So now, it's for heterosexuals.
FRIEDMAN: Good for New Jersey.
WHITFIELD: All right, all right, good.
HERMAN: I mean, they didn't think that same-sex partners was a good match, but now they're going to open a separate division for that, they're going to make millions.
FRIEDMAN: Oh, come on, come on.
WHITFIELD: Because somebody is making some money.
All right, Avery and Richard. Thanks so much. And now that I see myself on a return (ph), you're right. I do kind of look like I'm wearing Christmas ornaments, don't I?
FRIEDMAN: Yes, you look festive.
WHITFIELD: Looking like a Christmas tree.
FRIEDMAN: Absolutely.
HERMAN: You look beautiful.
FRIEDMAN: Happy Thanksgiving to both of you.
WHITFIELD: Oh, you're nice.
HERMAN: Happy Thanksgiving.
WHITFIELD: All right, happy Thanksgiving. You all have a great holiday.
HERMAN: Thanks.
WHITFIELD: OK, so what's going on with this space station? One thing I can tell you, it's going to be a long walk home.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right, let's take a trip to the International Space Station, shall we. Live pictures right now, two astronauts actually from the shuttle Endeavor are getting ready to take a very serious space walk. The third and longest space walk of the mission will be completely devoted to fixing a huge joint that controls a jammed solar wing on the space station. The spacewalk is scheduled to last as long as seven hours. We'll be checking in on it every now and again.
All right, if you're flying over the Thanksgiving holiday, of course, you'll want to avoid delays, so you may be interested in this computer program being tested at New York's JFK Airport.
Our Reynolds Wolf reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST (voice-over): Most of us look forward to the holiday season. What we don't look forward to is getting stuck at the airport waiting for a flight out.
RICH DELAURA, MIT SCIENTIST: Most of the delays are related to the problems in the major airports. WOLF: Problems like weather delays. At JFK International Airport in New York City, those backups can ripple across the United States to smaller airports. Now, to solve that problem, MIT researchers are testing a computer program at JFK called the Route Availability Planning Tool, or RAPT.
DELAURA: It takes a look where the storms are going, takes a look at where the departing aircraft trajectories are headed and tries to predict when and where the aircraft will encounter a storms that pilots might wish to avoid.
WOLF: RAPT helps air traffic managers decided which flights take off and which don't. Each flight route is color coded according to weather conditions. Green routes are safe to depart, but routes in red, they'll have to wait. The computerized tool is made for large airports like the ones in New York City where airspace can get very crowded.
DELAURA: There are probably somewhere around 250 flights coming into or out of the three major airports in New York every hour. A flight is taking off and landing every 15 seconds. So, decisions have to come like this.
WOLF: Making fast decisions about aircraft departures is critical to avoiding runway gridlock and it can be immensely taxing for many air traffic controllers.
DELAURA: Well, we're not talking about 60 percent chance of rain for Boston or New York. We're talking about the likelihood of a thunderstorm on a little patch of space that might be a few miles wide.
WOLF: RAPT could save millions of dollars in operating costs and thousands of hours in flight delays, so if you're flying this holiday season ...
DELAURA: Actually, if you're sitting in LaGuardia and getting out on time, there's a good chance the software has something to do with it.
WOLF: Reynolds Wolf, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: OK, who doesn't love McDonald's french fries? Well, a group of mothers on the move is actually promoting the healthy aspects of McDonald's french fries. Have you ever heard that before, the healthy aspects? Well, just wait and see.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Soccer moms, hockey moms, well, make way for McDonald's moms. Yes, there is now a team of mothers who are on a mission to promote McDonald's as a healthy place for your kids to eat.
But there are many cynics out there as CNN's Carol Costello quickly found out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sixty-five?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hitting the McDonald's fries, arguably delicious, yet so bad for your waistline and worse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got my two sacks of Mcgoodness right here.
COSTELLO: What are they really?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some fantastic fries. We're just going to dump them right in this jar.
COSTELLO: Morgan Spurlock who made the documentary "Super Size Me," famously demonstrated McDonald's fries never seemed to decompose like other foods, even after three weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. They're some kind of fluke of nature.
COSTELLO: That would give any mom pause until, perhaps, now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gotcha.
COSTELLO: Meet the McDonald's Moms, Gilda (ph), Joanna (ph), Tania (ph) and the rest are all real moms who volunteer as ambassadors for McDonald's.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The most important thing that I learned from the last trip was that McDonald's really wants to know what moms want. They're giving us a voice.
COSTELLO: The moms visit the actual farm where McDonald's spuds are grown.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had the opportunity to actually ride on a potato vigor.
COSTELLO: And they followed those potatoes through the factory all the way to the restaurant.
VOICE OF TARA HAYES, MCDONALD'S: It's really giving them that transparent, all-access opportunity. So, you know, they can ask questions about everything along the way.
COSTELLO: The moms then used that transparency to visit moms across the country, extolling the natural in McDonald's food. Some health experts worry this marketing campaign will give parents the wrong impression, that McDonald's fries are actually good for you. Remember, a jumbo McDonald's fries has 500 calories and 25 grams of fat. Most of the parents we talked with say they're not fooled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If a mom told you that McDonald's french fries would be good for your kid, would you believe her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would never eat it and I would never feed it to a child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would say McDonald's out of its mind.
COSTELLO: Still, the thought that McDonald's fries really are real and, yes, they do have good stuff in them, too, like fiber and potassium, and that is hard to resist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm going to eat there regardless, so it doesn't matter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do your kids like it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They love it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they ask for it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
COSTELLO (on camera): I did talk with a McDonald's mom. Gilda says she's not saying Mickey D's fries are ultranutritional, but she does feel better about them now that she's seen how they're made and her kids, they get a french fry treat once a week.
Carol Costello, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: OK, well, stay with CNN for all the latest news. "YOUR MONEY" starts right now.
