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Citigroup in Talks with Government; Obama Economic Team Takes Shape; Do the Big Three Deserve a Rescue; Mall Shooting Sparks Manhunt; Woman Killed in Church; 8-Year-Old Accused of Murder; Buy- Back Nets Hundreds of Weapons; Sports Feeling the Pinch

Aired November 23, 2008 - 23:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, breaking news at midnight here on the East Coast. Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. Thanks for joining us. Right now, there's breaking news on government meetings to decide the fate of one of the biggest banks in the world. Well, why are we up so late and they are as well? Well, if Citigroup fails, it means a lot to its 350,000 employees around the world. Maybe even more to me and you because many of our mortgages, our credit cards, our investments and our banking are tied to Citigroup.
Maybe you recognize these names or have seen them on your bills or on your statements. They're all part of Citigroup. Citibank, CitiMortgage, CitiCard, CitiFinancial, Smith Barney, Primerica, Banamex. That is the largest bank in Mexico. $2 trillion in assets on the line here. Got your attention? Well, we hope we do.

Our chief business correspondent Ali Velshi is up late with us. He's following this breaking story.

And Ali, you have some details. I hear that they are -- maybe some specifics about this that they have just agreed upon.

VOICE OF ALI VELSHI, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And we just got that information. Now, Don, let me tell you what it is. First of all, it's a direct investment by the government, by T.A.R.P., which is the $700 billion bailout program, a direct investment of $20 billion. In exchange for that, the government will get preferred stock in Citibank which pays a dividend of 8 percent.

So the government is not -- this is not just a straight loan. It is getting assets. It's getting a stake in Citibank for that loan, for that $20 billion. In exchange for doing this, Citigroup is going to have to undertake enhanced executive compensation restriction. So they are going to have to place restrictions on their executive compensation and compensation of any executives who leave -- those golden parachutes.

Also, and this is important, Citigroup, has a condition of taking this $20 billion is going to have to implement the FDIC Mortgage Modification Program. Now the FDIC has been out in front of the idea that mortgages need to be modified for people who are struggling.

Citigroup has been about as far at the back of the bus as you could be about this one. Citigroup is one of those nine banks that took money from the federal government, they took $25 billion from T.A.R.P. and specifically said they were not using that to enhance credit for individuals, for customers and for businesses. They were going to use it to make acquisitions, which was very much, Don, not the intention that most congressman and I think most Americans had for the $700 billion bailout program. So they did the wrong thing with it.

Now those conditions of these loans are that Citibank has got to use some of this money to change and modify mortgages for people who are already in trouble. There's also some talk of guaranteeing some of Citigroup's losses. Citigroup has potentially huge losses from the mortgage meltdown. And to some degree, they'll have to face those, but there's some discussion here about how the Treasury will take up some of those loans above a certain level.

Don, I should tell you for folks who don't know, Citigroup stock is down about 87 percent this year alone. It lost more than 60 percent of its value just in the last week. So this is a company that is in dire financial trouble, and this is a big move to shore the company up and to get some help to Americans. We've been hearing about help to the banks, help to the banks, help to the banks. This one seems to have some help in it. Some meat for people with mortgages.

LEMON: Yes. And Ali, as we said, when I was leading into this, $2 trillion in assets on the line here.

Our senior business correspondent Ali Velshi up with us, joining us tonight for this breaking news. Thank you very much for that, Ali.

Make sure you tune in for "AMERICAN MORNING," tomorrow morning, 6:00 a.m. Eastern Time. John Roberts and Kiran Chetry will have the very latest on this for you as well.

We're going to continue to talk about this because we have one more thing that is clear tonight. And that is big problems at companies like Citigroup. Just another huge challenge awaiting the president- elect.

Barack Obama takes office January 20th, but his every move related to the economy is already making headlines and spurring lots of speculation. Well, what are his plans? Who's on his team? And how soon can he deliver results? Well, we'll get some answers in about 12 hours. That's when Obama is expected to name New York Federal Reserve Chief Timothy Geithner to be his Treasury secretary and former Treasury secretary Larry Summers to be his top economic advisor.

Also, it may not be official by tomorrow, but sources tell CNN that New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson remains a front runner for Commerce secretary.

Meantime, a top aide suggests that president-elect's economic stimulus plan will likely grow and that it will cost much more than the $175 billion package he talked about during the campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID AXELROD, INCOMING WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER: Well, as he said yesterday, the economic recovery plan we are going to bring in January has to be big enough to deal with the huge problem we face. As I said, the projections are that things may get worse before they get better. We're facing the biggest economic challenges we've had really since the Great Depression, and we want to hit the ground running on January 20th.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: That said, now we go to Chicago where tomorrow the president- elect holds his news conference. But already tonight the Obama team is rethinking the original size and scope of its planned economic stimulus package. Here's CNN's Ed Henry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the financial crisis deepening, aides to President-elect Barack Obama are now signaling his stimulus plan will be much larger than the $175 billion package he campaigned on.

AXELROD: The economic recovery plan we are going to bring in January has to be big enough to deal with the huge problem we face.

HENRY: How big is the question facing Mr. Obama as he unveils his economic team, Monday, with New York Fed Chief Timothy Geithner, the pick for Treasury secretary? The chief of the National Economic Council at the White House will be Lawrence Summers whose push for an enormous stimulus package of $500 billion to $700 billion.

While Obama advisors will be not be pinned down on a specific number yet, they're suggesting drastic action is needed to prevent millions more jobs from being lost.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, OBAMA ECONOMIC ADVISER: It's going to be a number big enough that when they spell it out it looks like oooooh, with that many zeros on it.

HENRY: But Republicans are already warning the price tag may be too high in terms of government debt on the heels of a string of taxpayer bailouts.

MITT ROMNEY (R), FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to be facing a trillion dollar deficit in his first year. And I know he's going to want to stimulate the economy at the same time. But you know, we're going to have to cut back on some of the excesses of government or the massive borrowing could cause some secondary effects that would hurt us long terms.

HENRY: While team Obama is still open to the idea of an auto bailout, they're echoing congressional leaders by warning the big three will not get an infusion of cash without dramatic changes.

AXELROD: What we can't give is a blank check for an industry that isn't prepared to reform itself, to rationalize itself and to retool for the markets of today and tomorrow.

HENRY (voice-over): The Obama economic plan is also expected to have tax cuts for the lower and middle class. They were supposed to be paid for by tax increases on the wealthy. But team Obama is now signaling they'll wait on tax hikes until 2011, raising questions on how they'll actually pay for all of this. Ed Henry, CNN, Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: So what about the politics behind all of this? CNN political editor Mark Preston says the Obama team is making plans to get to work as soon as the new president takes office.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Mark, all this talk about the economy and all these companies in trouble, the president-elect and his team, they really have to hit the ground running day number one.

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Yes, Don. And this is what we do know. We know that the Obama transition team has been talking to Senate Democratic leaders about trying to expedite some of these cabinet appointments and try to get them through as quick as possible. I will tell you that those conversations are going on and I myself have had conversations with Senate Republicans, specifically one senior Senate Republican aide told me that if they are able to start holding hearings in the first week in January, on January 20th the day that Barack Obama is sworn in, then they might actually leave that ceremony, go into the Senate Chamber and actually confirm some of these people, such as the Treasury secretary, perhaps even secretary of state who we all believe is going to be Hillary Clinton.

LEMON: OK, yes. And speaking of Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton and Bill Richardson -- I mean, two people he ran against. I mean, even three people he ran against, his vice president, all are going to be on his team. But here's the interesting thing that I have to say about that. A lot of people are saying and what I'm reading is that he campaigned on this platform of change, yet and still he's got a lot of Clintonites that he is appointing.

PRESTON: Yes. The band is back together for 2009. No question about that, Don. I will tell you I was down in Richmond late last week. A lot of people came up to me and said, how can Barack Obama run on the mantle of change when they're bringing the Clintons back? In addition to the three you just mentioned, we have Eric Holder as well, whose likely to head the Department of Justice. He was a main figure in the Justice Department in the Clinton years.

What I told those people was, look, you do need very skilled people in these key positions. Certainly at this point where we are with the economy, with our foreign policy, you cannot bring novices in to run the government. Change may not be what you wanted, what you expected, but it is what it is and Obama is moving forward.

LEMON: Even with those people, those people who have very heavy, a lot of Washington experience, can he really change Washington the way he says he wants to by having those people with him on his team?

PRESTON: I don't think it's essentially going to be those people who could drag him down necessarily or stall him. It's really going to be is there a new thinking in Washington right now between Democrats and Republicans? Are they going to be able to work together and get some things done?

I will tell you that Republicans are dispirited at this point. They still don't have a leader. They're trying to figure their way out of the wilderness so to speak. They really did not do well on election night. And really, you're going to have an opposition to a lot of Barack Obama's policies. Certainly on some things, though, they will have to go along and agree with Barack Obama whether it might be some tax cuts or whether it is some kind of economic stimulus plan that they can all come together. Because, really, bottom line, Don, is there needs to be some action and I think we're going to see that very quickly out of the chute.

LEMON: Yes. When it came to him running with Hillary Clinton and also against John McCain, the experience question came into play a lot. They used it against him. But obviously, he's going to need people with experience if he is going to make this a positive at least experience for successful presidency. Mark Preston, we appreciate it.

PRESTON: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: We also have a quick reminder for you. President-elect Obama will introduce members of his economic team tomorrow in Chicago. CNN of course plans live coverage starting at noon Eastern Time.

We've been talking about the Citigroup bailout, but guess what. We don't want you to forget that there is an outstanding request from big three automakers for a bailout also. We'll take a closer look at where that stands tonight.

Plus, we want to know what's on your mind. Logon to Twitter, to Facebook, MySpace or ireport.com and tell us what you're thinking.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN DULAC, IREPORTER: I think it's important that we do it in this case.

JENNIFER LEMAY, IREPORTER: If we let the auto industries go under, there goes our economy.

DAVID J. WHITE, IREPORTER: If you have the technology to burn cleaner fuel and make that vehicle available to the American public within the next five to ten years, great. Other than that, if you're going to continue the ideology of putting tanks and large SUVs on the street, I'm not giving you a dime.

BARBARA RADEMACHER, IREPORTER: And now it's like their karma is hitting them in the face.

JOHN STEVENS, IREPORTER: The big three bailout. Don't do it. Please don't do it. They don't deserve it. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right, so we have talked about Citigroup. Now let's talk about the automakers. The big three bailout, one of the hottest topics among our iReporters. And it's easy to understand why.

The U.S. auto industry has long been considered the backbone of the economy. The collapse of even one of the big three could be devastating. And it's not just the number of people who work directly for Ford, for GM or for Chrysler; it's all those peripheral jobs -- the parts supplier, the dealerships, the vendors and the countless mom and pop businesses that rely on automakers. By one estimate, the U.S. auto industry employs directly or indirectly three million Americans.

Well, the heads of Ford, Chrysler and General Motors went to Capitol Hill this week to make a pitch for a $25 billion bailout. All these CEOs were passionate about needing the money to avoid collapse. But it was no sale and they left there empty handed. They now have until December 2nd to offer a recovery plan to Congress. Hearings are expected the first week of December.

Also, we want to know what's on your mind tonight. Logon to Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or ireport.com, tell us what you're thinking, and we'll try to get some of your responses on the air. We'll maybe even read them to the next two people who are going to join us.

So, what's the drive time buzz about the economy and the bailout? Well, you know, Martha Zoller and Warren Ballentine are getting an earful and they are burning the midnight oil with me tonight.

Thank you guys for staying up. We'll see you after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. The economy is undeniably the number one issue in America right now. Our guests tonight here at daily on their regular radio programs. On the left, Warren Ballentine of "The Warren Ballentine Show" and from the right, Martha Zoller of "The Martha Zoller Show."

OK, Martha, I'll start with you because you were actually in the NEWSROOM when we had this breaking news come down about the Citigroup package that's going to come out. The "Wall Street Journal" is classifying it as a bailout. What are your listeners saying about not -- they haven't heard about this. What are they saying about the other possible bailouts and what do you think they are going to say tomorrow?

MARTHA ZOLLER, RADIO HOST, "MARTHA ZOLLER SHOW": Well, they didn't like it. They didn't like it from the beginning. It was really the big difference. And we have a very, a very Republican listening area. George, of course, went for McCain. They didn't like it.

The big three automakers, the logical thing would be -- they've already got $25 billion set aside for cafe standards. Change that. Let them use that money, see if they can do that. It's something people are against it. That's what Chapter 11 is for.

LEMON: But you know what? I have to ask you this, Martha. Because a lot of times when people are talking about green and you know alternate forms of transportation, they'll call on, you know, tree huggers are liberal leaning lefties. And now they don't want to bail out the car companies when they call the people who didn't drive cars and wanted to conserve energy lefties?

ZOLLER: Well, it's interesting. I thought -- I thought the purpose of the Democratic Party was to get rid of the internal combustion engine. This would be a way to do it. I think Al Gore would love this. But look, jobs I realized are an issue. But we didn't lose -- we didn't lose a lot of jobs in the airline industry when they went Chapter 11, but most airlines are healthier today than they were. That's what we need, healthy companies.

LEMON: OK. Warren, I would imagine and just from listening to your radio show occasionally, I think that your listeners are saying the exact opposite. They said bail them out.

WARREN BALLENTINE, RADIO HOST, "THE WARREN BALLENTINE SHOW": Yes. That' exactly right. My listenership is across country and my listeners want them to bail out the car industry. But they want to do it with preconditions. They don't want to just give them a blank check. They want them to actually show that they can make a quality car. One of the things that's been coming up again and again on my show is how foreign cars are coming over here and giving 100,000-mile warranties. They're giving more standards in cheaper prices. And they want the American cars to do the same thing.

ZOLLER: But they can't do that without -- without changing the contracts because the foreign cars that are being built over here, they are being built with less labor costs. And that's the bottom line, it's the labor cost.

BALLENTINE: Well, I think -- I think that's a misconception. I think if you're going to make that argument, you're going to make it on the legacy costs, not on the labor cost because the labor costs is exactly the same. Toyota and Honda and everybody else is coming down south and building these cars. They don't have the legacy cost that GM has. And how you deal with that is just you simply go in and you break up that one union contract that the big three have right now.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Warren, I got to ask you this. I'm sorry, Martha.

ZOLLER: No, go ahead.

LEMON: I have got to ask you this because, you know, in many ways everybody is being hit by the economy, but those really at the bottom of the totem pole, which include some of your urban listeners because African-Americans or some of the poorest people in the country, not African-Americans are -- African-Americans, some of the poorest people in the country, minorities affected harder by the economy, yet and still they want to bail people out who have millions and millions of dollars?

BALLENTINE: What they want to bail them out, Don, because look, they bailed out AIG, they bailed out people on Wall Street. They're going to bail out Citigroup. You know, you just reported it as breaking news. They're going to bail them out. Why not bailout people that's really affecting the middle class?

See, it's not just three million people here that we're talking about under this estimate. You're talking about mom and pop diners, you're talking about the widget worker, you're talking about people who buy groceries in the grocery stores. You're talking about a rippling effect that's going to touch this whole country. And that's why they should be bailed out with preconditions.

LEMON: OK, all right, Martha and Warren, hold that thought. Because I want to see if you recognize some of this name -- Timothy Geithner, Eric Holder, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton. Is this -- oh, it's 1992 all over again. The reason I ask you both that is because I want you to stick around, because when we come back, we're going to take a look at the Obama team. It looks like the old Clinton team. And I know your listeners have a lot to say about that.

Also, tell us what's on your mind tonight. Go to Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, iReport and we'll try to get some of them on the air.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. I think the gloves are coming off because we're back now for round two. Warren and Martha are joining us again. OK, I wish I have thought about this before the show. Martha and I were talking during the break, Warren. We need a class picture up from the Clintons and a class picture up from the new president-elect team and many of them, they may have a little more gray hair, but it looks like the exact same photo, Martha.

ZOLLER: Well, I've got to tell you, though, the only choice so far that I have heard that I have a lot of problems with is Rahm Emanuel, because he was in the last Clinton administration as well as many of the people are. But, of course, you know you have change with every administration. But this administration, he's calling on the old Clinton folks and I know we've forgotten a lot of what happened in the Clinton administration, but it's going to dredge up a lot of things that people don't want to talk about.

LEMON: Like what?

ZOLLER: Oh, geeh, we could go into a laundry list of things. Eric Holder, of course, for AG. I mean, it is all the problems he had from Elian Gonzales to the pardons. All the things that were going on there. Not things that people really want to talk about. And I'm glad to see that Barack Obama is introducing his economic team later on this morning, but he should have done that first.

LEMON: I see Warren like raising his hand like me, pick me, pick me. Warrant, why are you doing that? BALLENTINE: Well, I think this shows the brilliance of Barack Obama. He's taking over -- you know, and I'm going to tell you like this as we would say on the streets, this is a hot mess that he's inheriting. And he's smart enough to understand, I need people around me who have come in on a situation like this before.

I mean, you got to -- whatever you say about the Clinton years, you've got to admit when he left, it was a surplus of money. And it's smart for Barack to do this coming in at this point in time. Now, Eric Holder, I know Eric. I had him on the show. I think he's going to be a hell of an Attorney General, personally. And I think Barack understands that right now we're in crisis and the best way to deal with a crisis is to have some experienced folks there. He's going to bring new people in.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Martha, that's going to be the last word. We've got to go. We're out of time. I'm sorry, Martha. Five seconds if you want to say and I'll let you go.

ZOLLER: Well, the economic stuff is important, but I want to be sure we don't have a September 10th mentality.

LEMON: OK, I hate to cut people off. I always get emails when I do that.

BALLENTINE: Yes. Because you cut me off all the time.

LEMON: Thank you. I really appreciate you staying up late.

ZOLLER: Thanks.

BALLENTINE: All right.

LEMON: All right, thanks. We have breaking news tonight. We told you about a bold new rescue plan for Citigroup, one of the biggest banks in the world. We'll see how world markets are responding.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We began this broadcast tonight with breaking news. A government bailout of Citigroup. The feds have reached an agreement tonight to take a $20 billion stake in the financial giant. Until recently, the biggest bank in the world.

Now Citigroup has about $2 trillion in assets and operations in more than 100 countries. But potentially bad loans on its books have spooked investors and also the stocks have crashed, falling almost 90 percent this year. Let's see how the overseas markets are reacting to the news of the Citibank bailout. Our John Vause is in Beijing.

John, how's it going there?

JOHN VAUSE, CNN BEIJING CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, the uncertain fate of Citibank had been weighing on Asian markets for the most of this morning. It was overweighing the big bounce of Wall Street on Friday. Also a word out of (INAUDIBLE) Lima, Peru by Asia Pacific leaders that they plan to act decisively to end this financial crisis.

Compared to recent weeks, the falls have been fairly modest. (INAUDIBLE) close today but Hong Kong is down just over one percent. Sydney lower by about 0-5 percent, Seoul off by almost two percent, Shanghai down also by one percent and Singapore off by about two percent.

But word of this government bailout on Citibank just coming through now, so there could be some kind of rebound in the afternoon trading session, Don.

LEMON: All right. John Vause joining us from Beijing. John, we appreciate it.

And we have been asking you the viewer what's on your mind tonight. Here's what Ariedana says, "I worry about my parents who worked hard for 30 plus years, invested the right way and now have lost half their 401(k)s." Absolutely.

Portlandreed, "How come Citibank can't ride out this economic downturn like other firms that are struggling? What gives?"

Drockaz07, "If they need assistance, they should be required to have an action plan that details how they will succeed with bailout money."

Logon to Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or ireport.com and tell us what you're thinking. We'll try to get it on the air for you, tonight, during this broadcast.

The holiday shopping season has arrived and with some anxiety this time. For retailers, there's a lot riding on Black Friday sales. Stephanie Elam has your Thanksgiving week preview. Let's get "Down to Business."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN BUSINESS NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Panic on the street. The Dow was in freefall most of last week, plummeting to its lowest level in nearly six years, Thursday. The S&P 500 plunged to an 11 1/2-year low. U.S. officials have avoided using the "R" word so far. Next week, the debate about recession could ramp up when we get a revive look at the nation's third quarter GDP.

The flash estimate last month show the economy declined by 0.003 of a percent, and most economists expect the revised number to be even worse. In the coming days, we'll get a sense of the mood among holiday shoppers, updating consumer confidence and consumer sentiment indexes are expected to increase slightly. Both reports will arrive just days ahead of Black Friday, the day-long shopping frenzy that follows Thanksgiving, when retailers in the red hope to put their books in the black.

The National Retail Association says shoppers have been holding out for Black Friday deals. 72 percent of those recently surveyed said they've done less than 10 percent of their shopping. But most retailers expect shopping this holiday season to be very weak with surveys showing most households will spend less this year than they did last year.

Next week, the market will be closed on Thanksgiving Day. Investors return Friday for a shortened trading session. That's this week's "Getting Down to Business." Stephanie Elam, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: 8 years old and facing murder charges. A child in crisis in Arizona and tough questions for the police who interrogated him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A massive manhunt going on right now in the Seattle area. Police are searching for a gunman after a deadly shooting last night at a mall in suburban Tukwila. A 16-year-old boy was killed and a 15- year-old boy wounded. Police say a possible gang-related fight sparked the shooting, which sent people running for the exits. Tonight, police say they have a suspect in their sights and are apparently getting closer to catching him.

Police in New Jersey are also searching for a gunman right now after a shooting in a North Jersey Church. They say the man drove from California to New Jersey to confront his estranged wife. He allegedly shot her to death in the church's vestibule and wounded two other people as services were concluding today. Police say the woman had moved to New Jersey to escape an abusive marriage and had filed a restraining order against that suspect.

Now to Arizona where an 8-year-old, that's right, an 8-year-old, is accused of murder. Police say he shot and killed his father and another man inside their St. John's home. Adding to this troubling case, a controversial videotaped interrogation of the boy released by investigators.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: I need you to tell me -- we need you to tell the truth really, really bad, OK? So you don't have to be in bigger trouble, OK? So we need you to tell us the truth. Can you tell me the truth?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, also on the tape, the boy talks about firing the gun, but defense attorneys are already questioning why no parent or lawyer was present. Take a close listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: And my dad probably went upstairs and fell on the floor. And I think I heard someone going upstairs, so I went upstairs and then I saw him.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: You saw who?

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: My dad. So I think I got my gun and I shot him, so he wouldn't suffer.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED BOY: And I ran downstairs, and I saw (BLEEP) and he was shaking, and I didn't know what happened, so, and I think the gun went off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Boy, Mike Watkiss of affiliate KTVK joins us now from Phoenix. And he has been covering this story since the very beginning.

Mike, you know, it's tough to listen to that little boy in that interrogation tape. So I have to ask you, why did investigators release this tape? What were they thinking?

MIKE WATKISS, KTVK CORRESPONDENT: I think everybody is asking the same question, Don. And I don't know if we've gotten a good explanation. My television station was the first to air this tape, first to get our hands on it. And it's not like we were banging down the prosecutor's door saying give it to us.

We were notified that the judge had altered the gag order that had been in place for about a week, and this material was suddenly outside the gag order and there it was. And putting it on television I think certainly our intent was to show everyone that we are in fact dealing with a very little boy. The police had said this was a premeditated double murder. Suddenly, we've got this videotape and it shows you that, as horrible as the crimes are, being alleged, they're alleged to have been committed by what is in essence a squeaky-voiced little, tiny 8-year-old third grader.

LEMON: Now, the police released this tape or did someone leak this tape?

WATKISS: No. The prosecutors released it.

LEMON: Prosecutors released it. OK.

WATKISS: Prosecutor released it.

LEMON: Are they under such pressure there that maybe they're saying, well, listen, he actually does in this tape say that he did it so maybe they released it to get some of the heat off of them? No?

WATKISS: Well, certainly. And the police chief up in this little town -- it's a very small town. A lot of really nice people, but it's a really small town. And the police chief up there was quoted early on saying, describing this as a premeditated act, and saying that they were going to file first-degree murder charges against this child.

Maybe they felt like they needed to support that by releasing this. I don't know. There's a gag order in place with the interesting footnote. On Friday prosecutors indicated that they're now withdrawing one of these first-degree murder charges, the one that -- in reference to the father. The child is still facing a first-degree murder charge in reference to that other man.

LEMON: What does that mean that they withdrew it? What does that mean for him that they withdrew this now?

WATKISS: Well, prosecutors have indicated that they will -- in all likelihood will file another charge. Perhaps in their investigation, they have now in their mind determined that the father's shooting was an accident or some other kind of homicide or negligence of some kind. Perhaps not a premeditated act as they initially said.

LEMON: OK, Mike, I got two real quick points to get to, because we have the breaking news at the top. I'm sure you saw that.

The other man killed in this, who was a renter in this place or the boarder, his family is upset about this.

WATKISS: Livid about it. He's really being sort of forgotten as the boarder, the guy who was just happened to be there. He's a wonderful man, by all accounts. 39-year-old guy from a Little Apache Community called San Carlos. Real stand-up guy, married his high school sweetheart, raising two beautiful daughters who are now in college. He was their sole breadwinner, and he's now gone from this family.

LEMON: And the family thinks the little boy is going to get off and there won't be justice for them.

WATKISS: They clearly are concerned that basically at the end of the day they're just going to say, naughty boy, and send him home with his natural mother.

LEMON: What about the boy's mother?

WATKISS: And say again.

LEMON: What about the boy's mother? Is she involved in this?

WATKISS: Natural mother is now back at the scene. The child had basically been with father and stepmother for the last, you know, last little bit. Mother is now back on the scene, has a lawyer involved, is now doing interviews on networks and is now saying that she apparently wants the child. Really hasn't been in the scene very much, as we understand, during the last couple of years.

LEMON: It is a tangled web. And we appreciate you guiding us through it. Mike Watkiss from our affiliate KTVK, joining us from Phoenix. Thank you, sir.

WATKISS: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Also, we want to know what's on your mind tonight. Make sure you logon to Twitter, to Facebook, MySpace or ireport.com. Tell us what you're thinking. We told you before about police departments offering gas cards or gift cards for guns, but groceries? It's an enlightening sign of the times.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Deer hunting season is under way in many parts of the country and it is a sign of the times that more and more hunters are donating the meat to charity. One organization in Arkansas recently processed 3,000 pounds of donated venison. The group's president says there's a lot of demand for the free meat, especially now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONNIE RITTER, PRESIDENT, ARKANSAS HUNTERS FEEDING THE HUNGRY: If you're not going to use your deer, if you're not going to eat your deer, drop it off to one of our processors. The demand is tremendous out there. We can use all the meat you can donate. We can use.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, besides donating the deer, hunters are asked to cover the processing costs if they can.

And yet another sign of the times, this time in Ohio. Gun owners in Cleveland and Akron on Saturday turned in hundreds of firearms in exchange for groceries and gas. In Akron, each gun was worth a $100 grocery card. In Cleveland, the payout was even sweeter. Two cavaliers tickets, a raffle ticket for a chance to win $1,000 and the choice of $50 worth of gas or groceries. Police say the buy-back program ultimately makes the city safer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. THOMAS STACHO, CLEVELAND POLICE: It's a great deal, but it's more than the deal. What's happening here is that the community is assisting the police department in addressing violence in the city of Cleveland. That's what it's all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, gun owners apparently were glad to take the offer. By the end of the day, Cleveland police had acquired more than 300 firearms.

Get ready to go cold turkey. There are some cooler than average temperatures in store for your holiday week. Our Jacqui Jeras, is that right?

(WEATHER REPORT)

LEMON: All right, Jacqui, thank you very much.

Also, we want to know what's on your mind tonight. Logon to Twitter -- twitter.com/donlemoncnn, Facebook, MySpace.com/donlemoncnn or ireport.com. We do get your comments on the air. And also, look, they're scrolling at the bottom of your screen for all of you to see.

All right, going to a New Jersey Nets game, well, it can net you a job. The team is taking unprecedented steps to make sure fans can afford those tickets.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. This is a long shot. Or I don't know. I said that four times already, the slap shot thing. The St. Louis Blues hockey team may pay up to $4,000 in mortgage or rent for a few lucky fans. One winner will be chosen at each Saturday home match for the rest of the season. So, buy your tickets, right? Well, the team says it is a way of thanking fans for boosting attendance despite the tough economic times.

The New Jersey Nets have come up with their own unique spin to boost attendance in a down economy. They've added a job fair to Saturday night's pre-game warm-up. The team lined up local companies to accept fan resumes and in return the fans got free admission to watch the Nets play the L.A. Clippers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRETT YOMARK, PRESIDENT, CEO, NEW JERSEY NETS: 3,000 resumes have come to us. People really could care less about the tickets right now. They're looking for jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, it could be a shrewd move. Team owners know they can't sell tickets to people who are out of work. So by helping fans find jobs, the team hopes the fans will be able to buy more tickets.

And you know what, our own Rick Horrow is one of the few people who understands how intertwined sports is with the larger economy. And I chatted with him about that just a little bit earlier tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: OK, so, Rick, we've heard that the entertainment industry is mostly recession proof, but this is trickling down to the sports world, which is sometimes seen as entertainment. But the sports world is suffering.

RICK HORROW, CNN SPORTS BUSINESS ANALYST: Used to say it was recession proof. It is clearly not that way anymore. $4.5 million to $5 million in naming rights, by the way, and about 40 percent of them -- banks, financial institutions, and they're all obviously having a lot of trouble.

Look at the auto industry. $1.1 billion in advertising. And now General Motors is cutting back. Cadillac is pulling out of the sponsorship of the Masters for God's sake. 11 Super Bowl ads last year, they're cutting back on that. The only thing that's safe ironically for the big three is the final four basketball tournament. Why? Because it's in Detroit next year. LEMON: Well, that's very interesting. But you bring up an interesting point. You can't really afford to pay for advertising if you can't afford to pay your employees. Let's talk about people going out to these sporting events, season tickets. We've heard like they're going through the roof lately. Are people doing this more or less, I'm wondering if pay per view, those sort of services are up?

HORROW: Well, first of all, people are going to games less. It used to be it would cost more to drive. Now you're costing less like you used to, but it's still a dollar that you could be sending on something else. Sacramento Kings did have an opening night. Didn't have the sellout. People like in Seattle clearly don't have a team anymore. 10 percent reduction of NFL tickets across the board in certain locations. Bottom line is people are going less. The only surprising market, Oklahoma City has a new team. Their attendance is up even though their team is 1-11.

LEMON: Are they trying to -- do you think advertisers are possibly figuring different ways to do this? I'm sure they are, but I think a better question is, how are the sports teams reacting to this? And stadium owners and team owners, what are they doing? Are they having to reach out in different ways in order to get people to become interested in sports again and just spend money?

HORROW: Don, let's call it the great American sports shakeout, because people are watching TV a little more. We see the Disney reports just to know that. And they're buying more DirecTV and satellite dishes. But the bottom line is, you've got to have a creative way to get people to the games or to get people to focus on things.

Gas credit cards and coupons for people to go. You've also recently had a novel promotion by the New Jersey Nets team who would give away resume value and tickets for people to give them resumes. Now we just got to find the jobs. The bottom line is, as the economy gets worse and these teams stream line, one hopes when it does, if it does turn around, people will be more efficient with their sports.

LEMON: Real quickly, Rick Horrow, how do you see this shaking out? Obviously, do you see the teams surviving this?

HORROW: Look, sports, they used to say is recession proof, Don. Now they say it might be recession proof. We've got to do some things to make it recession proof. And jerseys are selling. Things are happening for the holidays. We'll talk about that down the road.

By the way, if you want to buy an NFL jersey today, nine of the teams of the top ten jersey sales, they all won today. So, it's a pretty good day to buy an NFL jersey. Go rush to the stores tonight.

LEMON: All right. I guess your answer is yes they will survive, but it's going to be tough. Rick Horrow, we appreciate it.

HORROW: Yes, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: And also tonight, we want to know what's on your mind. Make sure you logon to anyone of those platforms right there, and tell us what's on your mind. We would certainly appreciate it.

Every heroes among us -- everyday heroes, I should say, among us. We asked you who they were. You responded. And last night we honored the top ten, along with some special guest as well. You're invited.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Well, they changed lives, change their communities, and made the world a better place to live. They are our heroes and this week, we are giving them the tributes they deserve. Here's CNN's Brooke Anderson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, CNN HEROES: Good evening, and welcome to our second annual tribute to CNN heroes.

BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's an award show like no other.

TERRENCE HOWARD, CNN HEROES PRESENTER: I'm presenting an award to Liz McCartney, a woman who I think has the heart of a thousand angels.

RICKI LAKE, CNN HEROES ATTENDEE: I mean, it feels like the academy awards and I feel she's winning, you know, the great honor. Go Marie! Go Marie!

ANDERSON: A night to honor ten selfless individuals whose commitment and compassion for the less fortunate are making the world a better place.

COOPER: These are people who are not looking for fame. They never sought out the limelight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're welcome.

ANDERSON: Caroline LeCroy started a project to connect kids with their incarcerated parents. Marie De Silva founded a school in Malawi for AIDS orphans. Tad Agoglia created the first response team of America.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: CNN hero Anne Mahlum.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ladies and gentlemen, CNN hero Viola Vaughn.

ANDERSON: Stars like Christine Aguilera turned the spotlight on these everyday people doing extraordinary things.

An evening of emotion, meaning and hope.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is a day I will never forget. ANDERSON: Brooke Anderson, CNN, Hollywood.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Well, more than one million of you voted for CNN's Hero of the Year. Now you can watch Thanksgiving night to find out who the winner will be. Should I tell them? OK, I won't. It's an all star tribute, hosted by Anderson Cooper. This Thursday, 9 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.

Everybody in my ear, head like three people, no, no, no. Of course, I wouldn't.

All right. We've all been asking what's on your mind tonight.

Here's what dave_dp2 has to say, "I think we have to help Citi. All those people, all those deposits, their hard earned money, we can't let it all be lost."

Socialmtgexpert, "Didn't vote for Obama, but he's my president." That's what he says. "I didn't vote for Obama, but he's my president. Just want to believe the "Yes, we can" stuff, but don't see how the same old same old.

Nuevosoul, "Too long, the big three have refused to innovate and should be abandoned if they refuse to offer substantive and proactive solutions."

Tanisha77 says, "Giving money to Citigroup is a lose-lose situation. No matter what the government does, the economy will continue to go downhill."

Make sure you logon to Facebook, MySpace, ireport.com, and tell me what you're thinking. We'll get it on the air. All right, everyone, have a great Thanksgiving. I'll see you here next weekend, hopefully at our normal times, 5:00 and 11:00 on Saturday, 6:00 and 11:00 on Sunday. Again, have a great holiday week.