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Fed to Focus Bailout on Consumer Debt; What Will Transition Mean to Economic Recovery?; More Members of Obama Economic Team Named; Where Will the Best Black Friday Deals Be?; Rape Increasing in Congo, Unpunished; A Family's General Motors Legacy
Aired November 25, 2008 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS (voice-over): A matter of life and death. If credit is the life blood of the U.S. economy, what more can the Fed do to pump up the lending? You're about to find out.
Black Friday in a bleak economy. Retailers' pain is your gain in the post-Thanksgiving bargain hunt.
And Miles O'Brien is our guide to the center of the universe, as far as UFO buffs are concerned: Roswell, New Mexico.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Are we ever going to know for sure what happened?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a good question. I'd love to know.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Hello everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. And you're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. Let's get right to it this hour.
Credit and credentials, major moves on issue No. 1, and you saw them happen live right here on CNN. First, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson unveiled another mammoth plan to free up credit, this time for you and me.
Then, just last hour, the president-elect took the stage for the second time in 24 hours to name his choice for budget director. You probably never heard of Peter Orszag, but you will.
Wall Street is coming off its two biggest days since 1987. Seems that it was too good to last.
So will another $800 billion do the trick? The Fed now plans to spend $600 billion on securities and debt held by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and lend as much as $200 billion to holders of securities backed by consumer debt.
Now, if I lost you somewhere after the word "trick," not to worry, because that's why Paul La Monica is here. He's our go-to guy at CNNmoney.com.
So Paul, what are we getting for our 800 billion bucks?
PAUL LA MONICA, CNNMONEY.COM: Yes. Hopefully, what we're going to get, eventually, is banks actually starting to lend to credit- worthy borrowers again and not just for home loans but for things like student loans and car loans and even small business loans, which a lot of people do need that are trying to make a living.
PHILLIPS: Well, you've been getting a lot of reaction to this story all morning. Do the people with whom you've talked think that this will work? Will it help the economy?
LA MONICA: There's a couple of problems. One, the money that is earmarked for lenders isn't really going to start getting to them until probably February, at the earliest. So anyone hoping for a good holiday shopping season is really not going to have that, unfortunately.
And the other issue is, some people think that the answer isn't really making more debt available to consumers, because after all, that's the problem. That's why we're in this mess in the first place, because people got loans that they shouldn't have and took on too much debt.
PHILLIPS: Go to CNNmoney.com. Read Paul La Monica's columns. Paul, thanks.
LA MONICA: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Love him or hate him, Henry Paulson is a lame duck, and Timothy Geithner, well, he's the treasury secretary to be. What does that mean for the meltdown and the government response? CNN's Allan Chernoff wondered the same thing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At a time of economic crisis, President-elect Obama's pick of Timothy Geithner to be treasury secretary is highly celebrated.
PROF. JEFF FRANKEL, HARVARD UNIVERSITY ECONOMIST: Tim Geithner is the right guy. I mean, he has long experience with dealing with financial crises.
CHERNOFF: Investors have been frustrated with current Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson's flip-flopping through the financial crisis. Paulson lobbied hard for Treasury to gain $700 billion to buy troubled mortgages from banks, then abandoned the plan. That accelerated the crisis facing Citigroup, a major owner of mortgages, and helped force Monday's bailout of the bank.
Geithner, economists say, should know better than to cause such uncertainty for the financial markets.
AMITY SHLAES, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Secretary Paulson was -- was making it up as he went along, wasn't very clear about the rules. CHERNOFF: Another contrast. Paulson spent his career at Goldman Sachs rising to chief executive. Geithner has no allegiance to any Wall Street firm. He's a product of the Treasury Department, where he spent years handling financial crises around the globe.
Even Secretary Paulson expressed admiration of Geithner, saying Monday, "I have great confidence in his understanding of markets, his judgment and leadership."
Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: We're going to talk more about all of this next hour when I'm joined by former labor secretary, Robert Reich. He's a public policy professor at U.C. Berkeley, an economics adviser to president-elect.
And later this hour we're going to look ahead to Black Friday. Hard times for stores means huge deals for you, but you still have to know where to look.
And a family with 300 years at General Motors. You're going to actually meet three generations of GM factory workers, an American blue-collar dynasty.
Page by page, line by line, the economy is issue No. 1 for President-elect Obama, who pledged just last hour to go through the federal budget with a scalpel. But exactly what is he going to cut?
Our Ed Henry was at the president-elect's news conference in Chicago, which you might have seen live on CNN.
Quite a different atmosphere, Ed. You're usually at the White House. And now it's all coming from Chicago. But pretty soon you'll be back at your usual stance.
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Soon enough, Kyra. That's right. I'm at the Hilton in Chicago. This is where the, I guess the temporary White House-to-be press briefing room is. The second day in a row the president-elect addressing reporters here.
Yesterday rolled out the key players in his money team. Today, there were sort of an official, unofficial message. Officially rolling out his budget director, Peter Orszag, as you mentioned, and Rob Nabors as a deputy budget director, officially trying to say, "Look, we're going to cut the budget. There's going to be some sacrifice as we try to turn the economy around and deal with the financial crisis."
The unofficial message, though, is to try to reassure the markets, send a signal to Wall Street that the president-elect realizes there's sort of a power vacuum, a leadership vacuum with President Bush as a lame duck and Barack Obama not sworn in yet. But it's very careful, you have to note, that the president-elect is only going so far in saying he's in control. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: There is only one president at the time. That president is George W. Bush, and he will be president until I'm sworn in on January 20.
Given the extraordinary circumstances that we find ourselves in, however, I think it is very important for the American people to understand that we are putting together a first-class team, and for them to have clarity that we don't intend to stumble into the next administration. We are going to hit the ground running.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Hit the ground running, but not yet: on January 20th of next year. And that's very interesting, because politically, it gives Barack Obama some room to not take responsibility for the current crisis that's happening on President Bush's watch.
It also gives him some political breathing space to not have to spell out any specific budget cuts, spell out any specifics on this economic stimulus plan he keeps promising. It's very interesting. We're in this weird Neverland right now, where people are sort of confused about who's in control. Because you've got the president- elect coming out making these pronouncements, again promising today he's going to create 2.5 million new jobs and saying he's going have a big stimulus plan, but he won't say how -- you know, how big it's going to be. He's not saying what's going to be in it. He's not saying how he's going to pay for it, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Ed Henry live from Chicago. Ed, thanks.
HENRY: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Won't need any on-the-job training. That's what Delaware's governor says about this man, Ted Kaufman. He was a longtime chief of staff to Delaware Senator Joe Biden, who's now the vice president-elect.
The 69-year-old Kaufman will now replace Biden in the Senate for two years. He says he will not run for the seat in 2010, by the way. And there are reports that Biden's son, Beau, currently Delaware's attorney general, might step into his dad's shoes. Well, Beau Biden is deployed in Iraq as a captain in the National Guard, and he said last week that he would not take his dad's job if offered.
John McCain still in the race, speaking live. Well, we're talking about the 2010 Senate race, that is. He's speaking live right now, holding a news conference. He's setting up a political action committee there in Phoenix, Arizona, as a first step toward running for a fifth Senate term. We're watching the news conference. We'll bring you any new details as they come along.
Well, building cars, building a city, building a legacy. We've heard the politicians and pundits talk about jump-starting the economy. Now we'll talk with the people who actually drive it. Three generations of auto workers, a true blue-collar dynasty. You'll meet them live in the NEWSROOM.
And the economic bust proves a boon for fortune-tellers. Broke Americans looking for a little help from their psychic friends.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, eat until you pop, shop until you drop. A holiday ritual, even in an economic meltdown. If you're willing to spend, the stores are willing to deal. We're going to help you make your holiday dollars go even further.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: The dinner is eaten; the dishes are cleared; the guests are sent on their way. And then, for millions of us, the shopping begins. You might get a few hours' sleep in between, possibly. But it's the post-Thanksgiving bargain-hunting craze known at Black Friday. And this year retailers may be more desperate than ever to ring up sales.
CNN's Gerri Willis joins me with a preview. Gerri, a very expert shopper, by the way.
What do you think the best deals are out there right now?
GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: Well, you know, I mean, it's all about electronics this year. I have to tell you. If you are in the mood to buy any CTV, GPS devices, digital cameras, the world is your oyster.
To find the best deals, check out a Web site called TechBargains.com. And when it comes to buying electronics, I'd say if you want to buy a gift card, you might want to steer clear of Circuit City. They recently filed for bankruptcy.
But don't forget to scan the Web to find out what those deals are, even before you leave the house. You want to do some comparison shopping, go to BFA. That stands for BlackFridayAds.net. And BlackFriday.GotaDeal.com. Great Web site.
And of course, don't forget the retailers' Web sites, too. Because they can tell you if the product is even in the store before you go there, get hung up in the crowds and the parking, and all that.
PHILLIPS: That's the best way to get the best discounts, from those Web sites?
WILLIS: Well, I've got other ideas, too.
PHILLIPS: OK.
WILLIS: All right.
PHILLIPS: Do tell.
WILLIS: How about coupons? Do you like coupons? PHILLIPS: Of course. Every Sunday, clipping them out. You know, Grandma started that years ago.
WILLIS: You know, I'm not about that. OK? But -- but if you buy online, which I do a lot of, and I know a lot of people do now. Sometimes when you're checking out, you're filling in line by line, and you'll see a little space that says, "Put in your promotional code or coupon number," and I'm thinking, "Where do I get that?"
Well, guess what? You can you discounts of up to 50 percent, if you find these coupons at places like RetailMeNot.com and PromotionalCode.com. And another great idea that I think is just fantastic. So put in the name of the item, in Google, in the Google search. Name of the item and the word "promotion" or "coupon," and you can have a promotion or coupon pop up that you can then even use in store or on the Web. Help you save more money.
PHILLIPS: All right. Well, how do you make sure that you've got the absolute rock-bottom price?
WILLIS: This requires some work. So roll up your sleeves. You want to make sure that the stores you're using have some kind of price matching guarantees. You might see them in a local store. Generally, these retailers match the price of a local competing store, and even some online Web sites will match a lower price offered by a store within 30 days.
So even after you've got your deal, keep your eye on these ads, just in case the price goes down, because you can get one discount and then another discount, maybe a third discount, for saving you money.
PHILLIPS: So...
WILLIS: All right.
PHILLIPS: For full disclosure, Gerri Willis always told me about the best discount shops when I was in New York.
WILLIS: I do what I can. I'm just trying to save you a little bit.
PHILLIPS: You've done great. Thanks, Gerri.
WILLIS: My pleasure.
PHILLIPS: nobody else seems to know where the economy is headed. So why not seek out a psychic?
Fortune tellers, astrologer and psychics across the country apparently riding out the crisis just fine. Many people report a spike in the number of businessmen coming in for readings, and most all (ph) clients are asking less about love and more about money. People want to know where the jobs are, how their retirement looks, some even asking their psychics for help with picking stocks.
Well, no doubt, more of you are heading out for the Thanksgiving holiday today. As for the weather, well, it could be a lot better. It could be worse, too.
Jacqui Jeras in the CNN weather center with all the details.
Hey, Jacqui.
(WEATHER REPORT)
PHILLIPS: Thanks, Jacqui.
From fear of wildfires to mudslides, southern California residents are racing to protect their homes before the rain hits later today, possibly washing down scorched hillsides.
In Yorba Linda, neighbors have been helping neighbors working through the night to set up concrete barriers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHERYL KRUEGER, YORBA LINDA, CALIFORNIA, RESIDENT: And now we're in a predicament of the hills coming down and who takes care of it?
BOB LANGAN, YORBA LINDA, CALIFORNIA, RESIDENT: I don't know the people at this house, but, you know, your can help, you can help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Well, the forecast calls for up to two inches of rain starting in just a matter of hours.
It's been alien central since 1947. We're going to take a trip to Roswell, New Mexico, with our Miles O'Brien in search of those aliens.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, it seems impossible that the fighting and suffering in Congo could get worse, but it is. A new report by Human Rights Watch says that some 500 opposition members were killed on orders by Congo's president. The government calls the report nonsense.
A new U.N. report says that both sides in the latest fighting have abused civilians, and it accuses the army of arbitrary rape, torture and executions.
CNN's Tim Lister reports on an incident five years ago that suggests that such crimes will again go unpunished. We want to warn you, once again, these images are pretty disturbing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TIM LISTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): One evening in December 2003, the villagers of Songoton (ph) Boyo were leaving their tiny church. It was when the people came out of evening mass, this witness says, that the satanic acts started. The soldiers began singing, "(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)," which means all hell will break loose.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): There were many. They broke into my house and raped me. Before they covered my eyes I saw two soldiers, but I could not scream.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): They forced my husband out of the house and they set upon me, and they raped me to the point where I could not say how many did it.
LISTER: More than 100 women in the village told the U.N. they were raped by army soldiers who'd not been paid. There was rampant looting.
MARCELLA FAVRETTO, MONUC HUMAN RIGHTS OFFICER: They attacked single houses looking for women to rape them, and sometimes there was even gang rape. What they called the dragon face, you know, (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE). Just to give us an idea of the magnitude and the violence that just descended on the village during that incident.
LISTER: Marcella Favretto led a U.N. investigation into what happened in Songoton (ph) Boyo. On her second day there...
FAVRETTO: I could see that from the near bush in the village some of the women were coming out. And they hadn't had the courage to do it before, because the soldiers even stole their clothes.
We gave them some shirts, something to make them comfortable. Enough that once the condition was OK, we started speaking to them. And, again, they told us the horrific story.
LISTER: Villagers were able to identify the perpetrators. At the U.N.'s urging, the military began prosecuting them, and for the first time in Congo, rape was tried as a crime against humanity. But of 79 soldiers identified, just 12 were prosecuted.
FERNANDO CASTANON, MONUC HUMAN RIGHTS DIRECTOR: Only seven were sentenced. One was acquitted in appeal. All the rest escaped from prison.
LISTER: Not a single soldier is serving a prison term for the crimes committed in Songoton (ph) Boyo. And to this day, the women of the village are haunted.
FAVRETTO: These incidents, these memories, this violence, it's always ready to come back to the surface. It cannot be forgotten.
LISTER: Now five years later and in another part of Congo, hundreds of miles away, civilians are fleeing. Soldiers and militia members are once more using their power to victimize women. And if history is any guide, few will pay for their crimes.
Tim Lister, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Chaos in Thailand's capital today. Anti-government protesters swarmed Bangkok's international airport, forcing the suspension of all departing flights.
The unrest also spilled into the streets, where opponents and supporters of the government fought each other with guns, knives and slingshots. Police say that 11 people were injured.
The opposition accuses the prime minister of being a puppet of his disgraced predecessor and are demanding that he step down.
In the Gulf of Aden, another ship hijacked by Somalis pirates. Yemen says it's one of theirs, and the pirates are demanding $2 million for its return.
And this update: a ship sunk by the Indian navy last week apparently was not a pirate mother ship. The owner of a Thai ship says it was his vessel, which was in the hands of pirates, and that 16 crewmen were still onboard. One was found alive, one confirmed dead. The others are still missing.
Next hour, we'll have more details and a live report from Kenya.
Well, yuck. Is that your opinion of broccoli? And if you smoke, well, a new report might convince you to start eating this vegetable with relish.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: One twenty-seven Eastern Time. Here are some of the stories we're working on in the CNN NEWSROOM.
President-elect Obama speaking out again on the financial crisis, saying that budget reform is not an option. It's a necessity. And he pledges to cut wasteful spending. He also named a new member to his team: Peter Orszag as White House budget director.
Warnings are out for possible mudslides in burned-out areas of Southern California. A storm system expected to dump up to two inches of rain. Some residents have been told they may have to evacuate.
And former Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick pleads guilty to a state dog-fighting charge. That move could get him out of prison early and perhaps speed up his return to pro football. He's already serving a 23-month sentence for bank-rolling a dog-fighting operation.
On Wall Street the Dow rallied briefly at the open on word that the government is pumping another $800 billion into the economy. That may sound like good news. But as Susan Lisovicz explains, the fact that we need the money is a sign of just how bad things really are.
Hey, Susan.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kyra.
Well, you know, credit remains tight, and it remains expensive, which is not good when the economy is shrinking. And we did get a revised number on third-quarter GDP. It was revised downward: 0.5 percent. That was weaker than the first -- the initial estimate, in fact, the worst showing since the 2001 recession.
Why was it revised downward? Well, consumers spent a little less, and the growth of U.S. exports slowed.
You know, initially, when we heard about this rescue plan, we a nice open. We were thinking we might have a three-peat, but by midmorning it faded, and right now blue chips are down 69 points. The NASDAQ is down 23.
Kyra, of course, we're coming off the best two-day point gain for the Dow Industrials ever and the best two-day percentage gain for the Dow and the S&P 500, for that matter, since the aftermath of the crash of '87. So some nice gains the last couple days.
PHILLIPS: Well, is the news of an $800 billion rescue plan something well-received on Wall Street?
LISOVICZ: Yes, it is. It is something welcome, that the government is again stepping in to try to grease the wheels to get credit going, but it also speaks to the magnitude of the problem.
And what would really be welcomed, is some signs of stability in the economy. I just mentioned GDP, but we also got a closely watched study today on home prices. The S&P/Case Shiller for the third quarter shows average prices down 16.6 percent. It studies 20 large metro areas. Declines in all of those areas.
We also saw an increase in the number of problem banks. That was a 13-year high. And consumer confidence actually picked up here. But it's still at historically low levels. So we'd like to see some improvement in the housing market, maybe consumer spending. That kind of thing. That would really help the markets, as well -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Susan Lisovicz, thanks so much.
All right. We've talked about the numbers now. Let's talk about the people. Real people. The people who build our cars, build our economy, and build a legacy.
People like Mike Green, president of the United Auto Workers, Local 652 in Lansing, Michigan, where GM has been making cars more than a century. Well, Mike's family is a true blue collar dynasty. Four generations of them have worked at GM. His grandpa, both parents two uncles, an aunt, his sister and now his son. A combined 300 years of service. Let me introduce you to three of those generations.
Mike Green, his dad Richard, and his son Rollin.
Great to see you, guys.
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: How you doing?
PHILLIPS: Mike, let's start with you. Did you see this coming? GM getting in trouble and seeing what's going on within the auto industry now? MIKE GREEN, PRES., UAW LOCAL 652: Well, you know, you see it coming. What you didn't see as the downturn of the economy on top of all the car sales and that. I guess nobody seen it coming quite this bad. I mean, you're trying to make adjustments and do the right thing through your quality and different things in the plant. And then this hits us.
PHILLIPS: And Richard, was there a time that you just didn't worry about your company? That it was doing so well and it was so profitable?
RICHARD GREEN, RETIRED GM WORKER: Yes. GM -- no one ever thought that GM would ever be in the trouble it's in today. It's just almost unbelievable. I don't know what the answers are. But it's -- it's been a real shocker.
PHILLIPS: What do you think happened, Richard? What did you do differently decades back versus what's going on right now? You've been able to pinpoint anything that you see as a big difference?
RICHARD GREEN: I think people had more of a loyalty to the GM brand. GM, Ford and Chrysler, than they do now. I wished I had the answer. I don't know of anybody who really has the answer to what happened. I think it's -- it just is kind of overwhelming.
PHILLIPS: Well, when you were working in the company, Richard, I mean, it was during the Korean War, right?
RICHARD GREEN: Correct.
PHILLIPS: So what did you build? Did you build jet engine? I mean, I remember there were even bazooka rockets that were in the plant at that time.
Do you remember all that? Tell me about it.
RICHARD GREEN: Oh, sure. I can remember back before my time, even. Second world war, the Korean War, the Cold War. General Motors, Ford and Chrysler, just like the (INAUDIBLE) as a big wheel and I think General Motors, Ford and Chrysler were kind of the main spokes. We built tanks. We built planes, guns. Right in Oldsmobile, in Lansing here, you know, we built jet engines. We built guns and shells and --
PHILLIPS: Wow.
So, Mike, when you started, then, working for the company -- I mean, obviously your dad probably made a tremendous influence on you.
But, what have you been the most proud of working at the company?
M. GREEN: Well, the products that we build. You know, when I hired in, I hired in in the engine part plant and I was roaching -- connecting rods is what I did in our engine acceptably part. And the different vehicles we've made over the years, I guess, we've been pretty proud of the '98 and the '99 Oldsmobile. You know, the Cutlass. We went into the Grand Am and some of those products. Now we're into the luxury class, which is the Cadillac CTS, STS, XRS.
PHILLIPS: Wow. Going into the high-class cars from the bazooka rocket. That's a trip.
Rollin what about you? Was it grandpa and dad that influenced you to work for the company? And what are you the most proud of when you go into work now, and you know, what's the vibe there at the company now?
ROLLIN GREEN, CURRENT GM WORKER: I mean, everybody keeps their heads up. You know, depending on the situation, you can't let it get you down. I'm proud to go to work every day. And we build a quality product. We have a great work force and a strong Union leadership behind us. So, I'm very confident and very proud going to work every day.
PHILLIPS: So, Rollin, I want to ask all three of you, if you don't mind. Rollin, I'll start with you.
If you had a chance to sit down with members of Congress, with President-elect Barack Obama. What would you say to them? Would you say, please, give us some money to help save our company? Or, would you have other advice?
ROLLIN GREEN: I think it's a vital asset to America. I mean, GM, the Big Three are America's backbone. So, I would strongly advise or encourage Congress to -- you know, it's not a bailout. It's a loan. It's helping us out.
PHILLIPS: Mike what do you think? What would your advice be if you had you a chance to sit down with the new president?
M. GREEN: Along the same lines. I mean, we're looking for a handup, not a handout. And like I say, it's a loan, not a bailout. And they've charged us for putting some things together you know, to -- what we're looking at and what it's going to take. And I think that the members will bring that to them and what we need to do as a corporation.
We've already did some things as a corporation, as a Union, to be more competitive. And it all comes back to the workforce. You know, the workforce -- they built three new plants in Lansing, because of the workforce that we have here. Because people have met every challenge that they've ever put before them here in Lansing.
So when you're good at doing something, it makes sense to keep it there. And you know, the affect on the, -- the triple down effect is what you're more concerned about. Do people really understand that if something happens to the Big Three, how it effects not only the Lansing community, but all the small towns and communities around us.
PHILLIPS: Oh, sure. And all the businesses.
M. GREEN: And how that comes down. Exactly.
PHILLIPS: Well, and Rollin, I know you've had to take a pay cut. So, I'm curious. Any one of just you, pipe in on this. What we found out with regard to the money that these CEOs make at these companies and flying private jets and not flying commercial. You know, they've been taking a lot of heat for the large amount of money.
How does that make you guys feel? Especially when you've got 300 years of your family involved in this company? How do you deal with that? How do you process that? Richard? Or go ahead, Mike.
M. GREEN: Well, I mean, you hear about that and you know, I guess that makes news, they come down there. I'm sure if they had that to do over again, they would. They didn't say anything, myself along with the president from 602, Ryan Fredline (ph). My chairman, Jack Graham. We went to Washington.
We borrowed a motor home. We got in it, we drove down there and went to the House, we went to the Senate. Talked to the people we thought we needed to talk to to plead the Main Street case, is what we're looking at. We're talking about the ordinary people that we actually build something, we do something and we sell a product.
So, you know, we drove down, we drove back. That doesn't maybe make as good a story as flying in on their corporate jets. I guess I would say, lead by example. You know, and I'm sure that will come. It's been pointed out and everybody's dwelling on that. And I'm sure it won't happen again. And you know, you have to -- you get back to the mainstream on what's really happening. And you know, I guess that's kind of little.
PHILLIPS: Well, it's guys like you that keep those companies going. And those CEO's can't forget that.
Mike, Richard, Rollin. Three generation there. 300 years total. That's amazing. Thanks for spending some time with me, guys.
M. GREEN: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Well, off label drug use. Is your doctor filling out a prescription for a drug without government approval? Plus, we're also looking at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Cruel, debatable. Unusual, definitely. A judge's sentence, not a big hit with noise violators. That story and more Manilow next hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: All right. Another reason to eat your broccoli. Scientists say that the vegetable can cut the cancer risk in smokers. They also saying that vegetables like brussel sprouts and cabbage can help, but only if they're raw. The researchers admit that the results aren't strong enough to force a public health recommendation. And it isn't the first time that broccoli has been linked to lowered cancer rates.
Well, medication for what ails you, maybe. Maybe not. A new study shows that more doctors are prescribing drugs for diseases other than those for which they've been approved. Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has more on these so-called off labeled drugs.
How common?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's very common. Doctors regularly prescribe something off label.
And let me first explain what that means. When the Food and Drug Administration approves the drug, they approve it for a specific diagnosis. But once it's on the market, sometimes doctors find out, hey, you what what, it works for other things, too. So let's tray it.
Sometimes this works out well. But according to researchers at Stanford University, doctors may be going too far. Let's take a look at some examples of off-label drug uses for drugs you may have heard of. For example, the drug Celebrex, which is used for pain and for inflammation and for stiffness, has also been used to treat certain kinds of tumors.
The drug Zoloft is approved for depression, OCD, some other diseases. But, not for bipolar disorder and it's used for that. The concern among these Stanford researchers, Kyra, is that doctors are sometimes doing this right but sometimes they're just willy-nilly prescribing drugs when there's no proof that they work.
PHILLIPS: So, what does a patient do if their worried about being prescribed and off-label drug.
COHEN: What you can do is, when a doctor says, here. Here Ms. Phillips, here's a prescription for you. If it's not obvious, for example, if you have an infection and he's giving you an antibiotic, then it's pretty clear that's probably on label.
However, if you're concerned that maybe this is an off label use, you can just ask the doctor, hey, is this an off-label use? It doesn't mean it's bad, but it's certainly worth asking the question. Then the second question you can ask is, is there any proof that it works for what ails me? Thirdly, you can ask, what are the side effects for people with my particular problem?
What this all amounts to is that you need to be a smart, empowered patient. You need to be an advocate for yourself when you go to the doctor. Go to CNN.com/empowered patient. And you will see more tips for how to be smart in the doctor's office.
PHILLIPS: All right. Thanks, Elizabeth.
COHEN: Thanks.
PHILLIPS: Well, it's a must-see for UFO enthusiasts. Roswell, New Mexico. Our Miles O'Brien crash lands in alien central.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: A TV drama named after it. And Mulder and Scully went there a decade ago? But, Roswell, New Mexico, hadn't really seen anything until our Miles O'Brien arrived in search of aliens.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JULIE SHUSTER, FATHER STARTED ROSWELL INCIDENT: We are in the vicinity of the debris field.
O'BRIEN (voice-over): So there I am on hallowed ground for the alien nation, Mecca for Martians, site of the crash we now know as the Roswell Incident.
SHUSTER: It's a good overlook...
O'BRIEN (on camera): Yes.
SHUSTER: ... of where the space and also the debris field where the crash allegedly impacted and broke up.
O'BRIEN: All right. Allegedly. What do you mean allegedly?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We use alleged a lot.
O'BRIEN (voice-over): They sure do. That's Julie Shuster whose late dad started the whole thing 61 years ago. While serving as the Roswell Air Base public affairs officer, he wrote the press release announcing the U.S. military had found a crashed flying saucer here on this ranch in Corona. Yes, the Roswell Incident didn't happen in Roswell.
(on camera): It couldn't have happened in a more remote place, could it?
SHUSTER: Could have tried but I'm not sure if it would succeed.
O'BRIEN: There's no question that something very weird crashed here. Everyone agrees on that point, right, Julie?
SHUSTER: Right.
O'BRIEN: That's pretty much in a body of fact, right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. The (INAUDIBLE).
O'BRIEN: All right. Take that allegedly, are we ever going to know for sure what happened here?
SHUSTER: Good question. I'd love to know.
O'BRIEN (voice-over): So would I. So would you. So would this guy.
DON SCHMITT, ROSWELL INCIDENT RESEARCHER: I'm 99 percent convinced -- convinced, it's not a belief.
O'BRIEN: Oh, I forgot, Don Schmitt knows what happened. He's gumshoed Roswell for years, turning out three best sellers with a made for TV plot. A thunderstorm, a crash, alien spacecraft, four diminutive alien bodies. Everything brought to this hangar then spirited away in the dark and, of course, a massive government cover- up.
O'BRIEN: What's your theory why the government doesn't come clean?
SCHMITT: I remain convinced that it is still a cover up of ignorance.
O'BRIEN: Our government ignorant? I guess that's not an alien concept. I saw "Independence Day."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "INDEPENDENCE DAY" FROM 20th CENTURY FOX)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no recovered spaceship.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, excuse me, Mr. President, that's not entirely accurate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Truth be told over the years, the Pentagon has provided a case study of how not to put out a brush fire on the grassy knoll. First they said it was a saucer, then a weather balloon, then a secret nuclear explosion detector, then finally a parachute test using crash dummies.
COL. DOUG KENNETT, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: The Air Force we searched did not locate or develop any information that the Roswell Incident was a UFO event or any indication of a cover-up.
O'BRIEN: They called that one the "Roswell Report Case Closed."
SCHMITT: Case closed.
O'BRIEN: Case closed?
SCHMITT: No. Clearly not. Just don't spend 20 years talking to, you know, eyewitnesses, describing everything contrary to the official explanation and say you're all lying.
FRANKIE ROWE, HANDLED ALLEGED UFO DEBRIS: This looks more like --
O'BRIEN: Frankie Rowe was 12 when it happened and got a chance to play with the piece of the wreckage. She remembers some, well, out of this world properties.
How big was it? Like tin foil thickness?
FRANKIE ROWE, HANDLED ALLEGED UFO DEBRIS: Not that thick. Thinner than a hand. When you wadded this up in your hand you could not feel it in your hand. Then you take it and you drop it on the table before it ever hit there it's flat. O'BRIEN: Frankie said a soldier came to her house a few days later and threatened her.
ROWE: He said don't talk about it. I didn't talk about it. Now kids in '47 are total different, I think they are from a different planet than kids today are.
O'BRIEN: So to speak, right Frankie?
ROWE: Because if we were told not to do something we didn't do it.
O'BRIEN:: Whatever you think about flying saucers, there is one thing that is certain, one thing that everyone can agree on in this story, this 61-year-old mystery has been awfully good for business here in Roswell, New Mexico.
And Julie Shuster should know. She runs the UFO museum which her dad started in '92. 160,000 now beat a path here every year. There's a 25 million dollar new building in the works.
So a skeptic watching this would say of course you don't want to accept the air force explanation. If the case is closed the tourists stop coming.
JULIE SHUSTER, DIR., INT'L UFO MUSEUM: I don't think even if it's proven one way or the other, I don't believe it's going to make a difference. It hasn't so far.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, my favorite martian, Miles, is live with us from New York.
O'BRIEN: I got to have those antennas come out of my hair.
PHILLIPS: Exactly. I don't want you beamed up just yet.
All right. So have they dug at the site, looking for any of that magic metal that you talk about?
O'BRIEN: Yes, yes. Because if they could find a piece of that, wouldn't that be something? You know, something that you know, it acts like tinfoil and then you put it down on to ground and it flattens back out again. It has a memory in it. But nobody has a piece of this.
A few years ago the University of New Mexico, as part of a program for the Sci-Fi Network, did a dig out there. Part of it was to look for a little piece of magic metal which would have been good. But also to find if there was a depression in the ground, an impact. Because if it was in fact, a balloon like the Air Force says, it wouldn't have made a divot.
So the problem was all this digging was very inconclusive.
PHILLIPS: All right. O'BRIEN: They found what appeared to be a divot, but it might have been caused by the backhoe itself, that they were using to dig. So, who knows.
PHILLIPS: How big was the divot?
O'BRIEN: About as big as you make.
PHILLIPS: Oh, you're so funny. All right. Why haven't they found any of this wreckage? What's your take after talking to the folks?
O'BRIEN: Well, you know, you can go in a couple of directions on this.
But basically, you have to remember 1947. This part of the world in particular, this is right near the Trinity site where they exploded the first atomic bomb. Roswell was the home at that time, of the Enola Gay, the only atomic weapons carrying Air Force wing was there.
This was a place that was used for a lot of secrets. So when the Military said, give me the stuff, this is a secret deal, people did it. So, it's quite possible they got all the goods and whatever was leftover just got thrown away. Or, it could be in a shoe box in somebody's attic right now. And somebody's going to open it up one of these days and voila, we've the whole story. Talk about a story.
PHILLIPS: All right. What's your gut? What's the Miles O'Brien gut?
O'BRIEN: You know, the whole time I was out there I was humming that Monkee's song, "I'm a Believer," you know? And you know, the truth is, I believe that the universe is filled with life. I think that's -- what a waste of space if it isn't.
So, can we rule out that they've made a visit here? Our little conception of physics says it's too vast of a distance to travel. But who knows? Maybe some advanced civilization has the capability. So, what I will say is, something very weird crashed there. And I would not rule out aliens.
PHILLIPS: All right. We're going to tap into the (INAUDIBLE) scrolls next.
Miles O'Brien, love it. Thanks so much.
O'BRIEN: You're welcome.
PHILLIPS: And tomorrow on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING" close encounters of the fourth kind with Miles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's glowing so brightly that I can't even make out the figure. I am really scared. Then it starts to climb up on the bed to reach for me. (END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: We're talking about alien abductions. You'll meet with one of the men who's talked with hundreds of people, all claiming that they were kidnapped by those extraterrestrials. That's starting at 6:00 a.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
Three, two, one, blast off. This is not a scene from the "Rocketeer," by the way. You know, the dude with a jet pack, taking off on a pretty risky record attempt. We'll tell you how he did.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Flying high with no wings. A jet packed daredevil reaching new heights with his flight over the Royal Gorge in Colorado. He flew 1,500 feet yesterday. But the hardest part may have been looking down. It's 1,100 feet to the bottom of the gorge and he wasn't wearing a parachute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC SCOTT, JET PACK PILOT: It's just different than when you're over to ground. The winds are coming up and not across. And you get a lot of this, yes. I can't say enough about how good it is to be standing on the (INAUDIBLE). (INAUDIBLE) never felt so good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Well, the jet pack is powered by hydrogen peroxide and holds about 30 seconds worth of fuel. That flight took 21 seconds.
The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.
