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Siege in Mumbai; Pakistan Denies Involvement in the Attacks
Aired November 28, 2008 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: It is Friday, November 28th. And here are the top stories we are following for you this hour in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... able to sustain long hours and dealing with...
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HARRIS: Startled journalists take cover as Indian commandos try to flush terrorists from a hotel. Commandos also raid two other sites in Mumbai. The standoff with terrorists now almost 48 hours old.
The economic forecast gloomy. With a good chance of bargains, Americans hit the stores on Black Friday. The day may decide which retailers survive into the new year.
Good morning everyone,. I'm Tony Harris.
It is 9:30 p.m. in Mumbai, India; 11:00 a.m. in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Well, it remains a chaotic situation in Mumbai after nearly 48 hours of terror. The terrorist siege, unsettled this hour, still very dangerous.
An hour or two of calm being punctuated by explosions and moments of fear. Here is what we know right now.
Police say they have cleared the Oberoi Hotel of terrorists. The hostages freed, and hundreds of trapped guests finally getting out. But the situation at the Taj Hotel still going on. Police say one terrorist remains inside.
Also new to report this morning, at least two Americans are among those killed in the Mumbai siege, and five hostages have been found dead at the Jewish center. The overall casualty count has risen to at least 151 people killed and 327 injured.
We have correspondents covering this very fluid story from all angles. Our Nic Robertson is at the Jewish center in Mumbai, while Sara Sidner is at the Taj Hotel. We will also have live reports from London, Islamabad, New York, Washington, the White House and the State Department. Plus, our Ed Henry in Chicago with reaction from the Obama camp.
The State Department is trying to account for U.S. citizens in Mumbai. Let's check in with our correspondent at State, Zain Verjee.
Zain, good morning to you. What do we know about the two American deaths?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN STATE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is really beginning to hit home here in the United States. It's a real tragedy for a family from Virginia.
We've learned two Americans have been killed in this attack in Mumbai. CNN has learned a little more detail, that a father and his 13-year-old daughter were killed at the Oberoi Hotel. They were in the restaurant, and they were found shot to death in the restaurant.
Their family has been in touch with the State Department, has reached out to the consular general in Mumbai. The issue now is really what to do with the bodies. And we understand that their family would like their remains to come back to the United States -- Tony.
HARRIS: And Zain, I'm just curious as to the activities of the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice. What can you tell us?
VERJEE: Well, Secretary Rice is at Camp David. She is keeping President Bush briefed on every single development, any moving targets, anything that is happening. The situation is very fluid, just trying to put together the moving parts here, really.
Secretary Rice has spoken six times over the last 36 hours with the consular general as she's briefed President Bush. She's also keeping President-elect Obama in the loop as well. She's been talking to world leaders and just trying to figure out some kind of coordinated response, and just also trying to get details about the nature and implications of the threat, but just coordinate, too, the diplomatic response.
From the State Department we're learning a little more information, that the consulate in Mumbai is going to be open to process things like emergency passports or help any U.S. citizens on the ground. They're calling in staff from all over India to come to Mumbai to try and beef up their operation there.
Consular officials are both at hospitals, as well as at the hotels, looking out for Americans, trying to help people that need it, and also to see if there are any more American casualties. One spokesman a short while ago said that they believe that there are still Americans at risk on the ground -- Tony.
HARRIS: All right. Our State Department correspondent, Zain Verjee, for us.
Zain, appreciate it. Thank you for that update.
The standoff at the Jewish center in Mumbai has taken a deadly turn. Five hostages killed in that siege.
Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson joins us by phone from the center.
Where the situation, as I understand it, Nic, is still unfolding. For people who are just joining our coverage this morning, take a moment here and tell us what you know.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, Tony, I'm watching what appears to be the senior police officer in charge outside the Chabad House, which is the Jewish center, giving a briefing to dozens and dozens of journalists that are crowding, and pushing and jostling him. But what has unfolded in these hours (ph) previous to this, the most significant development came a little before dusk, a huge explosion.
Local residents say that blue part of the wall of the Jewish center, that the commandos who had been airlifted onto the roof, Indian commandos who had been airlifted onto the roof earlier in the day, scaled down the outside of the building by rope, went in through that hole. And it was shortly after that that we learned that the five hostages inside, the young rabbi and his young wife and young children and their housekeeper, had been killed, that they were dead.
Then the scene went quiet after several more explosions and heavy exchanges of gunfire. It went quite for an hour, it went dark. The crowds on the street celebrated. The police said it wasn't over. There were more explosions, a short exchange of gunfire.
Now it seems that we're looking at a final briefing being given by the police commander. All the indications are now that the situation has wound down. There have been no explosions within the past about 45 minutes -- Tony.
HARRIS: OK, Nic. What we're going to do is we'll reach out to our international desk, and we will also to our sister network, who has been providing tremendous coverage of this story, CNN-IBN. And we will get that briefing from the police commander turned around and on the air as quickly as we possibly can.
You know, for the past two days CNN's Sara Sidner has been at the edge of this ongoing story. She has been right in the middle of the drama. Here are some of the most compelling pictures from Mumbai.
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SIDNER: ... might need to keep themselves able to sustain long hours -- OK. All right.
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HARRIS: And as you can see, a very tense and extremely dangerous situation at the luxury Taj Mahal Hotel. More pictures and more sound.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a multidimensional ambush, in a sense, of where the terrorists may have been, shattered as well. This is a multidimensional...
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HARRIS: And this is a video shot by our sister network in India, CNN-IBN. It captures one of this morning's explosions at the Taj Mahal Hotel.
And this video also comes from CNN-IBN, commandos firing on the Chabad House where gunmen had held several people and where five hostages lost their lives.
Those who escaped the carnage are describing the nightmarish scene. Our Matthew Chance talked with terror victims at a hospital in Mumbai. It's a CNN exclusive.
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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're the survivors of Mumbai's appalling attacks, scarred by gunshots and shrapnel wounds in the violence that's gripped India's financial heart. Some only escaped death by a whisker, like 40-year-old Ramesh (ph), who showed the bullet hole in his shoulder, inflicted when gunmen burst into the hotel restaurant where he was eating with his boss.
My boss died on the spot. So he was sitting hiding, so I saw this wasn't coming (INAUDIBLE). So he was using the BlackBerry. I pulled the BlackBerry like this and I covered him like this. So I got here on the -- here, on the...
CHANCE (on camera): You got shot in the shoulder?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the shoulder. Yes, that's right.
And he asked me, "Are you all right?" I go, "Yes, I'm fine." The second shot came to him, and the third, it came and just went like this.
CHANCE (voice-over): We were granted exclusive access to Mumbai's Sir J.J. Hospital, where most of the injured from the past few days have been treated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the belt of one of the policemen...
CHANCE: One doctor shows me a twisted belt buckle he says stopped a terrorist's bullet, saving the life of the policeman who was wearing it.
(on camera): All of these injured have incredible stories of survival to tell. Many have lost friends and loved ones in the Mumbai attacks. And they may not even be the last casualties to come out of this mess. This city's nightmare is far from over.
(voice-over): For some, like this 13-year-old boy, the nightmare may never end. He's nursing wounds from a grenade blast that ripped through one of Mumbai's residential zones. He wants to leave hospital soon, he told me, and go home. But doctors here say they don't have the heart to tell him that most of his family, his mom, his dad, his uncle and cousins, were killed in the attack. It is another shattered life in a city now filled with tragedy.
Matthew Chance, CNN, Mumbai.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: And to the Taj Hotel now, where police say a suspected terrorist remains holed up. Sara Sidner is there.
And Sara, again, for people who are just joining our coverage, what are you hearing? What is the very latest?
SIDNER: We just heard another loud blast coming from inside the Taj Hotel. This has been par for the course all day long today. Even more so than yesterday, when we were reporting there were several blasts yesterday. But today has been especially active.
There have been at least a dozen blasts going on over the past four hours now. And then sometimes they're followed by rapid gunfire. You're hearing all sorts of small, what sound like muted, blasts as well. And so you're getting a sense that there's a lot going on inside, though we understand from police officials, at one point today, saying, look, there's still this one single terrorist still inside who is armed with hand grenades and an AK-47.
So we're not quite sure if that person may have possibly a hostage which is why this is taking so long, which is why they're going about it in this way. Obviously wanting the best for the hostage, wanting to try to rescue the hostage if, in fact, that is what is taking so long in this case.
Again, we're going on 48 hours here. We're almost going into the third day of this.
We should mention, too, look, there may still be people inside as guests who are holed up in their rooms. And imagine being in there for this time, 48 hours, not wanting to sleep because you're not sure who might be rescued and not having enough sustenance, food and water, to get you through all of these tense times.
So that's the latest here in Mumbai outside the Taj Hotel.
HARRIS: OK. And Sara, just a quick question.
I know that you're outside of the Taj. Can you sort of describe the scene just outside of the building? As you know, over the last 24, 48 hours, that situation, in terms of some kind of perimeter, has been very fluid. But would you describe the activity on the streets just outside of the Taj?
SIDNER: You know, I suspect that people in developed countries would be a bit surprised about the lack of security when it comes to the general public and the media in this particular area. I mean, we are very, very close in proximity to this enormous structure where all of this action is going on, where all of this shooting and blasts are going off.
There is no real, for example, crime tape. You do not see police tape up. You do not see barricades keeping us from walking into an area even closer to the Taj site.
I mean, so it is a very odd situation, though all of the journalists who are left here are basically staying in a line with one another. But that is in great deal due to safety concerns, because we've been hearing all these blasts and all these shots. At one point there was one so close, and we noticed somebody go down in the line of journalists. And we are hearing that that may be a journalist who was hit by some kind of shrapnel in this.
So really, it's sort of watch out for yourself and put yourself in a safe position. But police aren't exactly pushing us back or keeping us from moving about. It's a very interesting situation, because normally you wouldn't be able to get this close.
HARRIS: Absolutely. And you just wonder to what extent the crime scene is being compromised by this lack of containment of that scene and other scenes in Mumbai.
SIDNER: You do have to wonder. You do have to wonder what's going on.
I walked around the entire hotel, which is about a couple city blocks, to see if we could see anything from the other side. And (INAUDIBLE) anywhere that sort of can get into the nooks and crannies behind this hotel. But honestly, you wonder about the perimeter and how secure they are.
HARRIS: Absolutely. Well, because at this point, you need to secure that building. You need the information that that crime scene contains.
All right. Sara Sidner for us.
Sara, appreciate it. Thank you.
When we come back, we will talk with CNN's Reza Sayah in Pakistan and the prospective of a former FBI special agent.
We're back in a moment.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The moment the fighting stopped there -- I understand stand that these terrorists were very well informed regarding the layout of the hotel.
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HARRIS: Nearly 48 hours of terror, and it is still going on. The main action at the Taj Mahal Hotel. While police are still on the scene at a Jewish center, police earlier today cleared the Oberoi Hotel of terrorists. Here is what we know right now.
Police say they freed a number of hostages at the Oberoi, hundreds of guests who had been hiding in their rooms. Also finally getting out the situation at the Taj Mahal Hotel, still going on.
Also new this morning, at least two Americans are among the dead. And the Israeli Foreign Minister says five hostages were killed at the Jewish center -- a rabbi, his wife, two children and a housekeeper.
A note here. We're just getting word that Chabad, their headquarters in Crown Heights Brooklyn, New York, there will be a press conference there at 12:30 p.m. Eastern Time. We will certainly get reaction to what has happened in Mumbai, and we will, of course, bring that to you live.
The casualty count, at least 151 people dead and 327 hurt.
India's bitter rival, Pakistan, denies its fingerprints are on the Mumbai attacks. In fact, Pakistan's leaders are sending condolences and condemning the terrorists.
CNN's Reza Sayah joins me live now from Islamabad.
Reza, good to see you. You have spoken with Pakistan's prime minister, I understand?
REZA SAYAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Tony. This is a defining moment when it comes to the relationship between Pakistan and India. What happens to this very fragile relationship will depend a lot on how these two countries handle the security crisis and handle the investigation into the Mumbai attacks.
The big story out of Islamabad, Pakistan, today is a phone call made by Pakistan's prime minister, Yousuf Raza Gilani, to India's prime minister, Manmohan Singh. In that phone conversation, India's prime minister saying that early evidence says that at least some of the gunmen in the Mumbai attacks were linked to Karachi, Pakistan. Now, he didn't say what that evidence was, but that was the message conveyed by the Indian prime minister to Pakistan's prime minister.
Also in that conversation, a highly unusual request. India's prime minister essentially summoned the head of Pakistan's top intelligence agency to come to India to help with the investigation. Within hours, Pakistan's leaders accepted.
But despite that gesture of cooperation, Pakistan's leaders have been quick to condemn the attacks, quick to say Pakistan is not involved. In fact, they've been frankly annoyed by the accusations.
In an exclusive interview with CNN, here is what Pakistan's prime minister had to say.
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YOUSUF RAZA GILANI, PAKISTANI PRIME MINISTER: Actually it's everybody's right to say whatever they want to say. But as far as my country is concerned, we are already hit by this terrorism, and only (INAUDIBLE). Therefore, I think that we are badly hit by terrorism and, therefore, we condemn this incident. And we condemn -- all the people of this country condemn it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAYAH: We should note these Mumbai attacks come at a time when both India and Pakistan are making some high-profile public efforts to improve their relationships. Pakistan's foreign minister is in India right now. He left earlier this week to hold talks, to improve relationships. The interior ministries both met earlier this week in Islamabad.
But many analysts say if indeed it is substantiated that these attackers in Mumbai have links to Pakistan, all that work is going to be in jeopardy. A big test facing these two countries -- Tony.
HARRIS: OK. Reza Sayah for us in Islamabad, Pakistan.
Reza, good to see you.
So, how are authorities going to figure out who is behind these attacks? Joining us to talk about what clues investigators are probably looking for right now, former FBI agent Harold Copus.
Harold, good to talk to you.
I am -- first of all, we're going to show some of the pictures of some of the scenes here. We're talking about coordinated attacks at 10 different sites.
I have been amazed -- you heard my conversation just a moment ago with Sara Sidner -- with what appears to me to be a lack of containment around these sites. I mean, my goodness, if you're talking about -- you're talking about a treasure trove of information that might be contaminated now because of a lack of containment of these crime scenes.
HAROLD COPUS, FMR. FBI SPECIAL AGENT: This is always a major problem. Chaos reigns in something like this.
No one knows who is in charge. Someone is going to have to stop and say, listen, we have a crime scene, it starts from the basement and goes to the roof. We have to contain everything in here. We've got to secure everything, and we've got to look for evidence.
Who are these people? What did they leave? What did they drop on the ground? Anything will now help us out.
HARRIS: Have you actually conducted any operations, done any work inside of India?
COPUS: I have not.
HARRIS: OK. Does this feel unusual to you, I mean, this kind of -- what we're seeing here so far? Again, there is so much information that is available. Does it appear to you that no one is in control of the situation?
COPUS: Well, you can't tell initially, but what normally happens in something like this is that no one is in control and then someone has to come forward and say, stop, it's me, everyone else back down. Now, I don't know how well the Indians have been into their training on this, but I know the FBI is ready to deploy one of their evidence teams to go in there. And let's say, what can we do?
We have some Americans killed, let us help you out. The British would do the same. Let's see what we can find in this crime scene.
HARRIS: Another quick question. Pivot just a bit here.
Americans watching this today and beginning to learn some of the details about how this plot may have unfolded, understanding now that it may have been teams of attackers who jumped off of speedboats at a port there in Mumbai, what should we be thinking about the security of our own ports in major cities around the country?
COPUS: What now we need to be concerned about is that, if they can come into a city as large as Mumbai, then what can happen here in the United States with all of our ports? And you don't have to go to the Miamis or New York. I can come into a smaller port, gain entry, and I don't have to take one of these big targets we always think about that is of national renown. I can go simply to a hotel and we can start the same thing here in the United States.
HARRIS: OK. If you would, please, Harold, stay with us. I have a few more questions, but we're trying to spread this out throughout the hour as we get additional information, and get your reaction to what we're seeing as these developments unfold.
Harold Copus, appreciate it. Thanks for your time.
When we come back we'll talk to CNN's terrorism analyst, Peter Bergen. But first a break.
You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you let fear control you, if fear runs your life, then the terrorists have won. Don't let that happen.
It's important to be fearful if someone has got a gun on you. Then that's the appropriate time. But to live the rest of your life in fear because of this attack? No, you don't do that.
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HARRIS: Another explosion shatters the night in the two-day terrorist siege in Mumbai. Police now concentrating on the Taj Mahal Hotel. They remain on the scene at a Jewish center. Earlier today, the Oberoi hotel was cleared of terrorists. Police freed several hostages at the Oberoi. Two Americans, a man and his 13-year-old daughter, found dead in the hotel restaurant. Hundreds of guests who had been hiding in their rooms finally getting out.
The situation at the Taj Mahal Hotel still going on with fresh explosions this hour. And the Israeli Foreign Ministry says five hostages were killed at the Jewish center -- a rabbi, his wife, two children sand a housekeeper. Overall, at least 151 people dead and 327 hurt.
We are still asking the question, who are the terrorists? We know they're skilled and organized, but are they linked to al Qaeda?
No one knows the hallmarks of an al Qaeda attack better than Peter Bergen. He is CNN's national security analyst and a scholar on Osama bin Laden and the terrorist network.
Peter, good to talk to you.
What are we looking at here, in your estimation, an al Qaeda attack or an al Qaeda-influenced attack?
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, obviously an al Qaeda-influenced attack with western targets, British targets, American targets, Jewish targets, multiple coordinated attacks. But in terms of who could have done this, according to U.S. counterterrorism officials that I've been speaking with recently, they don't think that this could be just simply a local indigenous group.
We have seen numerous terrorist attacks in India, of course, and in Bombay. But some of the attacks in Bombay -- one of the counterterrorism officials I talked to pointed to the '93 attack in Bombay which killed 250 people, multiple attacks, was coordinated according to the U.S. government by a guy called Daoud Ebraham (ph). Now Daoud Ebraham (ph) is a Pakistani -- sorry an Indian gangster with strong links to Pakistan.
He's believed to be living in Karachi right now, Karachi, Pakistan, the large port city where it is possible that the ship came from that delivered the terrorists, so that's one angle I'm sure investigators are going to be looking at. (INAUDIBLE) a significant Kashmir (ph) militant group conducted a similar operation to what we've seen in Bombay against the Indian Parliament back in December of 2001 where numerous gunmen was sent into the Parliament on a de facto (ph) suicide mission, shot up the Parliament. It nearly brought India and Pakistan to war in 2002, perhaps the intent again with these recent attacks to kind of inflame tensions between these two long-time rivals.
HARRIS: And it's a good sign to you that Pakistan and, given the information you just shared with us, that Pakistan and India at this point seem to be working together on the intelligence side of this investigation?
BERGEN: Indeed. As you know there's a lot of tension between these countries.
(CROSSTALK)
BERGEN: They fought three major wars and one smaller war since 1947. And they nearly came to a nuclear exchange in 2002. So the fact that they are sharing this intelligence at the high levels is a good thing. However, you know Indian popular opinion is going to be very much inflamed if indeed this links back to Pakistani terrorist groups.
There seems to be quite plausible. The Indian government has in the past proven very -- quite responsible and mature in its responses to terrorist attacks that may have some Pakistani links. And we can only hope that's the case in the future. However, Indian politicians have to respond to their public, so going forward, as the investigation goes forward, if there are links back to Pakistan, the Indian population may demand some kind of further action than is being taken right now.
HARRIS: In terms of a motive, is it possible that this attack by whatever group is responsible, was designed to derail what has appeared to be a relationship between India and Pakistan that was getting closer, improving?
BERGEN: Absolutely. I mean the last several years confidence- building measures between the two countries have included bus services, flights resuming, cricket matches, small things, but the sorts of things that would have been almost impossible to think of five years ago when relations between these two countries were really at their worst. So yes, of course that -- these attacks are designed to do -- to inflame relations and they may well succeed unfortunately.
HARRIS: Peter, one final question, what are your thoughts on the president-elect's stance on this? I'm curious as to who he might be getting some advice from? We know that he's in contact with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. But does this say to you that there needs to be a renewed effort in that region, particularly in Kashmir by the president-elect to hit the ground and pay attention to this region?
BERGEN: Absolutely and one of his advisors is a man called Bruce Riddell (ph), who's an expert on South Asia and al Qaeda. He has been advocating greater attempts by the United States to solve the Kashmir issue, so that's some advice the President-elect Obama is probably hearing. Also, if indeed Hillary Clinton is secretary of state, this is an area that she -- part of the world that she knows very well.
She has been interested in perhaps appointing a special envoy to try and solve that dispute. This is something that she's been thinking about for a couple of years. Obviously that's something that she would have to discuss with President-elect Obama, so I would anticipate the new administration putting a great deal more diplomatic efforts to solve this long-festering dispute between these two countries.
HARRIS: Peter, I didn't tell the truth, one more quick question. I'm sitting here with Harold Copus (ph), a former special agent for the FBI, and he suggests that this is different. This kind of attack may represent -- we're not talking about bombs planted and set off by a remote device -- that this might signal a new approach, new tactics by terrorists and terrorist groups. What do you think of that?
BERGEN: Well certainly you know the fact that we've been covering this event for more than 48 hours now rather than just sending suicide attackers in and having you know just that brief news hit, taking hostages, we saw that going back to the Munich Olympics in 1972. If you can prolong the news coverage, obviously you prolong the news attention.
But one very strange thing about these hostage-takings is that they haven't issued any demands. We don't know what these people want. I mean usually when you take hostages, you make some demands. These people have made no demands at all, so all we can do is speculate about what the political issues are that they're interested in highlighting.
HARRIS: All right, Peter Bergen for us, Peter, appreciate it, as always, thank you for your time.
When we come back we will update the situation on the ground in Mumbai. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID JACOBS, WITNESS: I was in my room. I heard a series of loud explosions. I thought it might have been construction to start with. I then started to think it wasn't. I then had a look over the atrium. It was clear to me that this was a terrorist attack. I went back inside my room and barricaded the door.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Mumbai, India, some 48 hours after the terrorist's siege began and it is still very unsettled and dangerous, the main police action right now at the Taj Mahal hotel. Earlier today they cleared the Oberoi hotel of terrorists. They remain at the Chabad Jewish Center. Police freed hostages at the Oberoi, plus hundreds of guests who had been hiding in their rooms finally getting out, gunfire still being heard at the Taj hotel.
Also new this morning, at least two Americans are among the dead. And a rabbi and his wife were among five people killed at that Jewish center. The casualty count since the attacks began Wednesday, at least 151 people dead, 327 hurt.
Wall Street -- Wall Street has had high hopes for Mumbai over the past few years, but the attacks are taking a big toll on the city's reputation. Susan Lisovicz is at the New York Stock Exchange with more -- Susan, good morning.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Tony. Well Wall Street has been bullish on Mumbai because Wall Street has been bullish on India and Mumbai being an international financial center has been the epicenter of the focus, but the events of the last 48 hours quickly tarnishing its reputation as an international financial capital.
Combined with a series of terrorist attacks earlier this year, one expert quoted in the "Wall Street Journal" says the world is beginning to get the impression that there is no control in the country. And if investors begin pulling out and tourists stop going in, that could deal a serious blow to India's image and its economy, Tony.
HARRIS: And you know, Susan, a large part of India's success has been to its -- due to its luxury goods industry. And my guess is that has taken a hit because of these attacks.
LISOVICZ: No question about it, Tony. When you just think about the Taj Mahal Palace Hotel alone which is, of course, one of the places where we have seen these deadly attacks.
HARRIS: Yeah.
LISOVICZ: It's home to Louie Vitton (ph), Fende (ph), many other luxury stores. Those companies have relied heavy on countries like India as they turn to new markets while the U.S. economy slows. Fortunately, most experts do not anticipate long-term effects from the attacks since the Indian market is so relatively small in terms of sales figures.
Let's turn to the situation here in the U.S. The market today closes at 1:00 p.m. Eastern. That's three hours early for a holiday shortened session. The Dow industrials, in the meantime, not doing much at all, up 10 points. I mean technically this could be a fifth day of gains for the Dow if this so-called rally holds, Tony.
The Nasdaq composite, meanwhile, is down about one percent. And today is black Friday. That's where most of the action is. Retail stocks, in the meantime, mixed across the board, a lot of trepidation as to what exactly will happen today and the rest of this holiday spending season, Tony.
HARRIS: OK, Susan, appreciate it. Thank you.
LISOVICZ: You're welcome.
HARRIS: As Susan just mentioned, the economic indicator to watch today, bargain hunting on black Friday. It is hoped that there will be a wave of shoppers turning out perhaps -- maybe this will be a wave that turns into a tsunami, maybe it's just a trickle. Let's check in with CNN's Allan Chernoff. He is at a mall in New Jersey. Retailers really need shoppers to show up today, Allan, and are they getting their wish at least at your location?
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, certainly, no doubt about that. As you can see it is quite busy here. And the fact is it's been busy since 5:00 in the morning. JC Penney even opened its doors at a 3:45. There were 100 people outside waiting to get in. Of course for many people it's a big tradition, but another reason people are flocking to the malls today, bargains, lots of them, 20, 30 percent off, in some cases, two for one sales. The retailers know that they've got to deliver big bargains to draw people in during our tough economic times.
But certainly, of course, the tragic events in India put all of that into perspective, make these shoppers, make Americans recognize and thankful for the blessings that we have. And among those blessings, the ability to actually come out to a mall and to buy luxury items over here. But certainly those events in India...
HARRIS: Yeah.
CHERNOFF: ... are hanging over the shoppers here, very, very heavily today -- Tony.
HARRIS: All right, Allan Chernoff for us, Allan, appreciate it. Thank you.
You know predictions of a blue black Friday in a survey from Gallup, shoppers say they will spend an average of $616 this season, down almost a third from 2007. CNN's Christine Romans joins me from the New York Business Desk -- Christine, good to see you. But here is the thing. Those in a buying mood may actually get some pretty deep discounts today. Is that correct?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: (INAUDIBLE) right, Tony. If you don't have a bunch of credit card debt and you have your job and you're smart, this is going to be a good, a good season for many, many consumers who are in a good position. Now some of the other surveys that we've seen, Tony, say that in fact people want to make sure they give the same amount to their kids this year as they did last year, so that means that parents are foregoing on gifts or adults are cutting back on gifts or things for themselves to make sure that their kids don't have to go back.
And you know every year -- I mean Americans spend more every year. I mean a growing retail economy is something that is a mark of this country, in this economy. In October we saw consumer spending actually drop one percent. That's very, very rare. And that is sort of the foreshadowing of what a lot of retailers think is going to happen in November and in December and that's why, as Allan said, they're trying to lure you in there with deep discounts.
Now something to remind you, some of these retailers are in such trouble they've actually filed for bankruptcy. That's something to think of when you go to the mall. You're going to find deep discounts at those places, places like Circuit City. Circuit City said that it was going to be discounting.
Linens-N-Things is actually out of business liquidating. Steve and Barry's is also filing for bankruptcy and there are some regional chains that are in financial distress as well, not yet filed for bankruptcy, but you can imagine some deep discounts there. The National Foundation for Credit Counseling has some advice for how to seek out the best deals.
And one of the very interesting things there, of course, hunt for bargains, but spread out your purchases. Don't buy everything today. The closer you get to the end of the year, the cheaper it's going to get. Buy only what you need. Don't add more credit card debt.
HARRIS: Yeah. Yeah.
ROMANS: That's what got us in this mess in the first place. Don't pile it on and avoid gift cards. This of this, a quarter of all gift cards never go redeemed anyway. I mean that's just lost...
HARRIS: Wow.
ROMANS: ... a lost gift, so think of that here. But Tony, you know we talk about all this gloom and doom news about the economy again and again, but for millions of people who are smart, who don't have a ton of credit card debt and who are careful, this is going to be a good year. Christmas is on a Thursday. The best discounts -- every retail analyst I talked to said the best discounts will be Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday before Christmas.
HARRIS: Also good to know. All right, Christine, thank you.
ROMANS: Sure.
HARRIS: Yeah, that's a good heads up.
Back to our top story in just a moment, the terror siege in Mumbai, India. We will check in with our Ed Henry with the Obama transition team in Chicago.
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JONATHAN EHRLICH, CANADIAN BUSINESSMAN: I received a text from a friend of mine to meet him in the lobby of the Oberoi for a drink, but I had an early flight and decided to pass and just go to sleep.
KOBI ONASSI, ISRAELI TOURIST: There was a big fear and a lot of confusion from the Indian side. And we were just seeing CNN and trying to understand what will be the next step, and a lot of fear of what's going on. Some of the time we heard some of the shots.
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HARRIS: We want to get you caught up on the latest developments in the terror attacks in Mumbai. Here is what we know right now. Five hostages have been killed in the standoff at the Chabad Jewish Center. That raises the confirmed death toll in the attacks to 151. At least two Americans are among the dead. More explosions at the Taj Mahal Hotel this hour, police believe one gunman is still holed up inside. They say the operation at the Oberoi Hotel is over.
President-elect Barack Obama getting updates and intelligence briefings on the situation in India, Obama is also preparing to unveil his own national security team next week. Ed Henry is live for us from Chicago where he is covering the Obama transition and, Ed, if you would talk to us about the contact between the president, his team and the president-elect and his team.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Good morning, Tony. Where there is the real channel is through Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. She has been on the phone at least twice this week directly with President-elect Barack Obama. As you know, she's at Camp David with President Bush briefing him on all the information she has and then in turn she is using the telephone to call out here to Chicago and reach out directly to Barack Obama.
She did that on Wednesday evening. She did it again on Thursday morning, so even on Thanksgiving there was this direct high-level contact between both sides. That shows the commitment that both sides are showing, both the current White House and the incoming administration, about trying to keep an open line of communication. Making sure everyone's on the same page.
Obviously, they want to try and speak with one voice. That's why we've seen President Bush, who obviously is still in power talking yesterday directly with the Indian prime minister, but we have not seen President-elect Obama do that. Instead, he has been focused on just information gathering. And so in addition to the calls with Secretary of State Rice, there have been State Department officials, other national security officials for the Bush administration having staff-level contact with the Obama transition team here in Chicago, as well as some of the officials that are in Washington as well.
And then that information is being filtered up to Barack Obama so that he has in real time the best information that the U.S. has, but since he's not a policymaker yet, he's not setting U.S. policy, he has not been sworn in. He's not in charge of the U.S. armed forces. He is sort of still in waiting, but they want to make sure that he's ready to hit the ground running on January 20th, Tony.
HARRIS: All right, Ed Henry in Chicago for us. Ed, appreciate it. Thank you.
HENRY: Thank you.
HARRIS: When we come back we will update the breaking news, the siege in Mumbai. CNN correspondents on the ground, the latest pictures from CNN-IBN our sister network. Five hostages have been killed and a standoff at the Chabad Jewish Center that raises the confirmed death toll now in the attacks to 151. We're back in a moment.
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HARRIS: An update now on the breaking news, the terror attacks in Mumbai. Here is what we know right now. Five hostages have been killed in the standoff at the Chabad Jewish Center. That raises the confirmed death toll in the attacks to 151. At least two Americans are among the dead, more explosions at the Taj Mahal Hotel this hour. Police believe one gunman is still holed up inside. They say the operation at the Oberoi Hotel is now over. India looking in the direction of Pakistan as this story, the terror attacks in Mumbai, continues to develop, but so far the identity of the attackers remains a mystery. International security correspondent Paula Newton live from London with the latest on what her sources are saying -- Paula, what are you learning?
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Tony, we know right now that there's a very interesting spin on this whole story. The British authorities here, British authorities in Mumbai and Indian authorities are now saying that they are going down a line of inquiry, which means that some of these attackers may have been British-born. They believe that at least two of them, according to the Indian government, were British citizens.
Now, we only have that definitively from the Indian government itself. British authorities are not confirming that to us as of yet. All they're saying is that they've opened up that line of inquiry both in domestic intelligence here and MI6, their foreign intelligence are looking at this as well as Scotland Yard. If this is true Tony, it certainly brings up the specter of a British cell, which would have had a lot more easy access with British passports to that hotel that was rumored that they signed up to be guests at the hotel, that maybe even a couple of them were working at the hotel, again those planning, coordination, sophistication a lot easier when you're caring a British passport.
HARRIS: Wow, OK, Paula Newton, and Paula if you would, keep us posted on the very latest. As you just heard, CNN's Paula Newton reporting that the latest information we are learning, still working to bring all of the pieces of this story together that some of the attackers may in fact be British citizens.
We're going to take a break and come back with a complete reset of our -- Sara Sidner. Before we do that, we've been waiting for another opportunity to talk to our Sara Sidner. I believe she is available and with us right now. Sara, if you can hear me, I'm hearing a lot of information, a lot of chatter at our international desk. Maybe you can fill us in on what you're learning?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tony we are standing again outside the Taj Hotel. There are a crowd of (INAUDIBLE) more than 200 journalists, many of them, most of them actually local journalists here in India, who have surrounded an official who came out, members of the military or security forces it's very hard to see them. They sort of surrounded them to the point where they were pushed back and basically told that we're not going to tell you anything if you don't get back. No one can hear anything, so it looks like a mob scene on the media's part outside of the Taj.
(INAUDIBLE) reports that authorities are saying this is all over now. We want to put that in context, because we have heard that you know half a dozen times over this 48-hour period that things are done. That things have ended, and that things are either near their end, very close to their end. That's what they're saying and so we have to take it with a grain of salt, because we're not quite sure if that's going to be the case or if we're going to hear some more shots in the next few hours, so that's the situation here right now.
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: Yeah.
SIDNER: Everyone's trying to get information from someone who walked from the -- OK, we just heard another shot from inside the Taj, so here we go again (INAUDIBLE) it's over or someone is talking about (INAUDIBLE) is it over? Is it over? Now we're hearing more shots from inside the Taj, so obviously it's not over yet...
HARRIS: Yeah, I know how confused and we keep using the word fluid, but my goodness, I don't know how many times now, I've lost count, of the number of times we've said that this situation appears to be over, quoting an official on the ground there, only to learn that a moment later there are more gunshots and more explosions. I'm sort of curious, if I could ask you, Sara, just to backtrack for just a moment. You mentioned there was a crush of reporters toward the hotel. Who is it that came out of the hotel? Who is that official? Do we know?
SIDNER: No, we do not know.
HARRIS: OK.
SIDNER: I could (INAUDIBLE) not even get -- you almost would have to fight your way (INAUDIBLE) so you can't -- even now, they're still yelling, trying to get information, and this is probably pent-up frustration over 48 hours...
(CROSSTALK)
SIDNER: ... of not getting anything out of the Taj hotel, not from the hotel itself or from authorities dealing with the security situation inside. So (INAUDIBLE) a lot of agitation here (INAUDIBLE) we definitely heard shots coming from what seems to be inside the (INAUDIBLE).
HARRIS: Well it's just to put this in a little bit of context and Sara, thank you. We'll let you go so you can do a little more news gathering for us.
