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Hostages Killed in Mumbai Showdown; Identity, Motives of Terrorists Still Unfolding

Aired November 28, 2008 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST (voice-over): Fifty hours of hell in Mumbai. A fight to the death, pitting highly-trained attackers, who took this city by storm, and elite commandos determined to take the city back.

In the crossfire, innocent civilians. Many of them rescued. Many of them safe. Many others, not.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM. We want to get right to it this hour.

It is almost midnight in the commercial capital of India, its largest city. And for more than two days the center of the world's attention. Here's what we know in Mumbai.

The death toll has reached 160, including at least two Americans, and at least 11 of the terrorists. More than 300 people are hurt. Five of the dead were hostages at the Jewish center known as Chabad, or Merriman House. That includes the rabbi-in-residence and his wife. Two gunmen were killed there, as well. And our Nic Robertson tells us that siege is now over.

And that's the Taj Mahal Hotel, where gunmen apparently are still holed up, despite some local reports to the contrary. Our people there heard fresh rounds of gunfire just minutes ago. And then the siege at the Hotel Oberoi ended earlier today. The last remaining hostages there, freed and hugely relieved. Indian commandos took out the last two Oberoi attackers, but not before at least 30 people were killed.

And if you've been watching CNN you know we brought you unparalleled live coverage of the Mumbai rampage, thanks in large part to our sister network in India, CNN-IBN. But just a short time ago the India government ended all international video transmissions. So over the next two hours, we'll bring you the best images that we have, along with live phone reports from our correspondents and crews.

Well, the deaths at the Hotel Oberoi include Alan Scherr, a 58- year-old American from Virginia and his 13-year-old daughter, Naomi. They were traveling with more than 20 other members of a community called Synchronicity, which promotes meditation. Four others from the group are hurt. Scherr's wife and the couple's two other children stayed behind in Virginia.

And the rabbi killed at the Jewish center apparently held dual citizenship, Israeli and American. Twenty-nine-year-old Gabriel Holzberg was born in Israel but moved to New York as a child. His wife, Rivka, also was killed, but their 2-year-old son was actually smuggled out of the house yesterday by a cook, and is said now to be safe and sound.

Now, the site is India, but the targets are international. And that's clearly hitting home for American families today. Let's get straight to our state correspondent -- State Department correspondent, rather, Zain Verjee.

Zain, it's been a long 50 hours.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's been an incredibly long 50 hours, but for the State Department, they have really been trying to essentially figure out how to account for all American citizens in Mumbai.

You reported the State Department had concern that two Americans were killed at the Oberoi Hotel. We also know now, too, that a Brooklyn rabbi and his wife were also killed in Chabad House.

There was a press conference just a short while ago in New York. Let's listen to what was said about them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We, indeed the entire world, who were all praying until now that Gabby and Rivka would be spared along with the remaining hostages, alas, now the situation has changed. This news is fresh and the wound is raw. Words are inadequate to express our outrage and deep pain at the tragic act of cold-blooded murder of innocent men, women and children, fueled by (UNINTELLIGIBLE) hatred.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERJEE: This tragedy, disaster, halfway across the world, Kyra, really hitting home here in the United States. It's a very painful and difficult moment here for all these families. The State Department is really trying, is working as hard as it can to see if there -- if they can get any information on any casualties. And they're trying to be as supportive as they can to U.S. citizens that they are in touch with.

The State Department, though, is telling us that they believe that there are still Americans at risk on the ground in Mumbai.

PHILLIPS: All right. State Department correspondent Zain Verjee. Thank you so much. We'll continue to talk to you, of course, throughout the next couple of hours.

Now, here's the layout in Mumbai. What began as a rolling rampage just after 9 p.m. local time on Wednesday came down yesterday to three violent standoffs, then two, finally one.

At the moment it's not entirely clear whether one or more attackers is still on the loose in the Taj Mahal Hotel, a Mumbai landmark. The standoff at the nearby Oberoi Hotel ended with the killing of two attackers and the rescue of surviving guests and employees.

Thirty dead bodies have been recovered from the Oberoi to date, and the siege of the Chabad House ended with the deaths of at least two attackers and five hostages, including the rabbi and his wife, as we just mentioned.

Well, this assault on Mumbai has proven a tactical challenge for police and military forces. Sprawling hotels to clear, innocent civilian hostages and gunmen with itchy trigger fingers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well (UNINTELLIGIBLE), they had started firing. Again, the same personality, kind of people, with no remorse. Anybody and whosoever came in front of them, they fired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, beyond those types of gunmen, terrorist, hostage-takers, takes years of discipline and tactics. Howard Robertson knows this all too well. He's the former SWAT Commander for the New Orleans Police Department, a city known for one of the highest crime rates in the country.

Howard, good to see you.

HOWARD ROBERTSON, FORMER SWAT COMMANDER, NEW ORLEANS POLICE DEPARTMENT: Good evening, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Well, I want to start with these men that have taken these hotels at bay with police officers. We understand there were three situations. The two hotels, the one Jewish community center. Now we're only looking at the Taj Hotel. It looks like the other two standoffs have ended.

But you know, through this entire process, Howard, we heard of no demands, no negotiations.

H. ROBERTSON: Right.

PHILLIPS: Just death, gun battles, destruction. So from monitoring that and listening to that, what do you think the absolute, No. 1 motive here was?

H. ROBERTSON: Just what they got: publicity. You know, it's hard to negotiate with somebody when they don't want to live. As a hostage negotiator, the one thing I always try to get across is, that no matter how bleak something looks, you want to live, and I can talk that person out as long as they want to live. In this situation, terrorists go in expecting to die when they come out. The one thing they want is publicity. They got international publicity for two days, and how a small group of people can conquer an entire city and put the whole world at threat level. That's enormous.

PHILLIPS: And we heard from -- everybody was wondering, you know, why this has taken so long. Here we are 50 hours into this, and there's still gunmen in one of the hotels, and the commandos are trying to figure out what to do. I want to just listen to a sound bite from one of the members of the anti-terror squad and then talk to you why going slow in a situation like this is so important.

H. ROBERTSON: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our operations had to be deliberate and slow, because the life of the hostages and innocent residents in the hotel was of great importance to us. I have especially told the commandos who are taking part not to rush things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And he's talking about not to rush things.

H. ROBERTSON: Right.

PHILLIPS: OK. So let's say you came into this scene, Howard, 50 hours into this, 160 people dead, more than 300 people wounded. You've still got a gunmen in one of these hotels. What do you do?

H. ROBERTSON: It's a real complicated situation. But you have to remember that, as a commander, the first thing you're worried about is hostages' lives. I mean, everything you do, you have to worry about the hostage lives.

The second thing, you have to worry about your own personnel, getting those people in and out alive. Now, it sounds very simple that as a terrorist, you go in, eliminate that threat and walk away, but nine out of ten chances you know there's going to be booby traps; there's going to be explosives. So you can't bust in. You could risk the lives of all the hostages.

The second [SIC] thing you have to worry about is, as you're clearing those floors and clearing the rooms thinking you're rescuing hostages, there could very easily be a terrorist posing as a hostage, laying on the floor, dressed in, you know, civilian garb, where you release this person that turns around and hurts you or actually you're helping the terrorist escape.

So you have to go very slow, make sure that you're evacuating the right people. And even the hostages. You should consider every hostage as a possible terrorist until you get them out, identify them, and you know who they are.

PHILLIPS: All right.

H. ROBERTSON: The threat level is enormous.

PHILLIPS: And it still is at this point. Now, I have a number of other questions for you.

H. ROBERTSON: Sure.

PHILLIPS: In particular, some video of one of the members of the anti-terror squad that is making me feel a little uncomfortable here, just a little bit of that video. I want our viewers to stay with us.

Howard, stay with me, because I'm told that we have our Nic Robertson on the phone with us now. We've been waiting to hear from him. He's been investigating to -- whom is behind these attacks. He's been investigating into more about these groups. They've been claiming responsibility. Nic Robertson on the phone with us now.

Nic, what do you have for us?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, it's still not clear. I think the nature -- the nature of the fact that the situation is still ongoing is going to mean it's going to be several days, perhaps, before we get a clearer indication from the police, before they perhaps begin to release some of the information they do have about -- about who these people really are.

We know the claim of responsibility from -- from what appeared to be a South Indian Islamic group. We do know that there have been ties to Bangladeshi and Pakistani groups and attacks in India before, and we certainly know that the Indian government at the moment is saying that there are links with Pakistan. We've heard that from government officials. And we've also been told that these -- some of these terrorists came ashore by boat, and then the attacked the hotels, attacked the cafes, attacked the Jewish center and the other locations, as well.

But at the moment, there has been no hard information and, of course, as you've been discussing what makes it harder to analyze exactly who they are, the lack of demand. If there are demands, then it becomes much clearer who they are, because you know what they want, you know, which groups they're associated with.

But the tactics are singling out British and Americans. The tactics are taking and attacking the Jewish center and holding a rabbi and his family hostage at the Jewish center. A new tactic here in India, and that is, of course, a concern, because it is tactics that are seen by radical Islamic extremists elsewhere in the world, but not until now perpetrated here in India -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Nic, this one group that has claimed responsibility. The Deccan Mujahedeen. Some are saying that this is just a front, this is not necessarily a group. What do you know about this?

Nic, are you still with me?

N. ROBERTSON: Kyra, yes.

PHILLIPS: Can you hear me OK?

N. ROBERTSON: Kyra, I am having trouble with the line. I'm sorry. Can you ask me the question again?

PHILLIPS: Absolutely. Deccan Mujahedeen, this group that has come forward claiming responsibility in these attacks, have you been able to find out anything about this alleged organization? Some have come forward in law enforcement, saying they believe this may be a front. This really may not be an exact group and there are other terrorists acting behind this name?

N. ROBERTSON: Well, that's been the feeling of Indian government officials that we've talked to. They think this is just a cover name, as they say, a red herring to throw people off the sense of who they are.

The general consensus is that it is a group of sort of sort of home-grown militant Islamist radicals from within India. However, not acting alone, acting with support from outside, acting, according to some Indian government officials, with support from Pakistan's intelligence agency. The -- Pakistan has said that they will -- they will send their intelligence chief, the ISI intelligence chief, to India.

The two countries have been talking much more recently and have been developing a much closer relationship than they have had in the past. There's a lot politically at stake for both countries at the moment, to perhaps deal with this situation in a way that doesn't escalate, and set the country back on this sort of path of peace that they have been on.

Certainly, though, among the people we talked to in the crowds today, there is a strong anti-Pakistan feeling, a very strong crowd feeling about India, particularly when some of the standoffs have been ended. We've heard cheering for the -- for the Indian security forces.

But people telling us they're very angry with Pakistan. A real sense on the street that there's -- the street feeling is that Pakistan has a hand in this, but I think that sort of cooler heads that prevail at the moment say that this attack likely comes from the same roots as so many of the dozens of attacks in India over the past few years that have caused over 3,000 deaths here in the past three years alone. But those attacks have their roots in radical Islamist indigenous Indian groups with support from Bangladesh and from Pakistan -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Nic, we will talk more with you in about 15 minutes. Appreciate it. I know you've got to go work your sources as you can continue to investigate who exactly is behind these attacks.

Meanwhile, here's some facts about Mumbai. It's India's largest city with about 19 million living there. Mumbai was known as Bombay until the name was changed in 1995. It's located on India's west coast. It's also the country's financial capital and home to India's Hindi-language film industry known as "Bollywood."

Fifty-plus hours of terror in India's biggest city, and it's not over yet. Stay with CNN for live rolling coverage of the terror siege in Mumbai. We're going to talk more with the former SWAT commander, Howard Robertson, about the tactical challenge right now for the authorities there in India, as they are still dealing with gunmen at the Taj Mahal Hotel.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, we've heard it before: media reports that the standoff at Mumbai's Taj Mahal hotel is over, followed by another round of gunfire, chaos and confusion. We do know this is the last stand for the last of the attackers, who fanned out across Mumbai more than two days ago, killing at least 160 people and wounding more than 300.

The standoff ended a short time earlier at the ultra-orthodox Jewish center known as the Chabad House. Indian commandos who fought their way inside found the bodies of five hostages, including the rabbi-in-residence and his wife. Two gunmen were found dead, as well.

Well, still lots of confusion on the ground as to where things stand. Let's chat some more about the tactical ops (ph) with Howard Robertson, former SWAT commander with the New Orleans P.D.

Now Howard, we were talking a minute ago about how these guys were clearing floor by floor in these hotels, using passwords, trying to communicate with those that are locked up in their rooms, to let them know, "Hey, it's OK. We're here to rescue here. Those are good tactics, I understand.

But there was something that caught my attention. After knowing you for so many years, training with you, I want to get your take on this. I'm going to actually telestrate on this videotape of one of these commandos here. And if you can see him, he's -- exposed. You can see some of the other guys are kind of providing cover for him, looking around. But he's still very -- exposed here.

Then as it pulls out, take a look at how he gets up on this wall: has his gun in one hand, and he starts randomly firing into the Jewish community center here. Now, am I incorrect in saying that this is extremely dangerous?

H. ROBERTSON: It's not something that any military or police organization would teach someone, but that's one of the things that scares most. You know, myself as well as every other law enforcement officer in the United States, is watching this film, as a learning experience. What can we take away from this in case it ever happens here? And we have to be prepared.

If you remember the footage from the first day, you could see so many regular police officers walking around with rifles that you could just look. They didn't know how to carry it. Their hands were on the trigger. They were not trained. That's the stuff that scares you the most, because I remember being in an incident similar to that, to where officers would have accidental discharge with their weapons, because they didn't know how to handle it. You saw the same thing happen here.

PHILLIPS: And then -- and here's another question I have for you. When he stands up on the wall like that...

H. ROBERTSON: Right, right.

PHILLIPS: ... and starts firing into the window, this is where the rabbi and his wife were killed.

H. ROBERTSON: Right.

PHILLIPS: So if you can't see what's inside that room, and you're randomly firing, because you think the bad guy is in there, I mean, you could take out an innocent person. We don't still -- we still don't know what bullets took the lives of that rabbi and his wife.

H. ROBERTSON: Well, we don't know that, but I also don't know -- his assignment could be just as a pure distraction, you know. There could be something going on somewhere else in the building...

PHILLIPS: OK.

H. ROBERTSON: ... and they're using him just to distract to maybe try and draw fire or draw attention to himself so that an assault team can go in another way. So -- we don't know what he's doing, but his tactics are certainly not something that you would teach.

PHILLIPS: Got it. Something else that surprised me, one of the commanders of the anti-terror squad came forward, talking about how they didn't have an actual layout for one of the main hotels.

H. ROBERTSON: Right.

PHILLIPS: And I remember learning from you that the first thing do you when you're setting up your control and command is that you get the layout for your building, for your center, for your school, whatever it is. And explain for our viewers why that's so important.

H. ROBERTSON: Well, most police -- you know, most police departments nowadays, you know, have video pictures of their entire city: what the buildings look like, the blocks' layout. And then it's so important to know what each room looks like in the hotel. They have a blueprint of each hotel, each high-rise, the Superdome in New Orleans.

You know, all of that is part of the SWAT commander's role, even before a role (ph) happens, because you have to know all the points of entry, the points of exit, how can they get in the air-conditioning ducts, where would be places that, if explosives were placed, could bring down the whole building.

I mean, if you remember Oklahoma, a big part of the building was brought down, and that could happen here. You don't want to send your team in and have the whole building come down.

PHILLIPS: Howard Robertson, we're going to talk more about the flash-bangs, the fast-roping out of the helos, and how these guys came in by the water, all things that you know very well.

We're going to take a quick break. More from Howard Robertson in just a second and more on our breaking news coverage -- coverage out of Mumbai, India, as still, the Taj Mahal, we are being told, gunmen inside that remaining hotel, while the one at the Oberoi, we are told, has ended in addition to the Jewish community center. One hundred and sixty people have lost their lives in this rampage. More news after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Approaching midnight in India's biggest city, where people have undergone a terrifying ordeal for the past 50-plus hours. The death toll has now climbed to 160 in Mumbai, two days after a string of coordinated attacks on nine locations around the city.

More than 320 people are wounded, and standoffs with gunmen continued in today at at least two of the targeted sites: the Taj Hotel and the Chabad House Jewish Center.

We've been hearing new gunfire at the Taj now, where police believe at least one gunman is still holed up. That standoff as Chabad has apparently ended with tragic results. Five hostages are dead, including a rabbi and his wife. Two gunmen are also dead.

On Wall Street, the Dow Industrials were able to stage a fifth straight victory, even as investors focused largely on the troubled retail sector and monitored those attacks in Mumbai.

Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange with more on how the market wrapped up an abbreviated trading session.

Hi, Susan.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

Well, the abbreviated session wrapped up just about a half an hour ago, and it was the slowest trading day this year. Perhaps investors were out hitting the stores.

Still, stocks extended the recent rally. The Dow Industrials climbed 102 points, finishing with a fifth straight session. Yes, that's rare. The last time it happened was July of last year.

During this streak the Dow has soared more than 1,200 points. The NASDAQ composite, meanwhile, ticked up a quarter of one percent, and the S&P 500 was up this week 12 percent. Bloomberg says last time it was up that high was 1974.

We should mention also that India's market also gained on Friday after being closed for a day due to the deadly terror attacks there -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: Well, it was really the retail sector that took center stage today. Right? Just how important is Black Friday for stores?

LISOVICZ: It remains very important, Kyra. Crucially important. The term Black Friday, meant to indicate that this is the day when many of them turn from a loss for the year to a profit. That may not be the case this year. Analysts say that we're likely to see more bankruptcies in the retail sector after the holidays.

Retail stocks were mixed during today's session, but for the year, most of them sharply lower. The exception, stores that cater to discount shoppers such as Wal-Mart and Family Dollar stores, a sign of the times. No question about it, Kyra.

Back to you.

PHILLIPS: All right, Susan, thanks so much.

Well, as you know, as we continue to follow the story out of Mumbai, India, we're also learning about the lives that have been lost. We're getting names. We're finding out about their families and more about where they lived and their backgrounds.

Two of those that lost their lives, Alan Scherr and his 13-year- old daughter, Naomi. These were the Americans that were traveling in Mumbai. They're members of a non-sectarian, non-religious meditation community called Synchronicity. And we've been learning more about them as we have found out about the two losing their lives in this shootout.

I'm told that Bobbie Garvey is a spokesperson for the Synchronicity Foundation knew these two very well, and Bobbie is speaking on behalf of the family and joins us on the phone.

Bobbie, can you hear me OK?

BOBBIE GARVEY, SPOKESPERSON, SYNCHRONICITY FOUNDATION: I can.

PHILLIPS: Well, no doubt that this is an extremely hard time for your organization, and also the Scherr family. But if you don't mind, if you could just tell us a little bit about them and what you knew about them and why they participated in the Synchronicity Foundation.

GARVEY: Sure. Actually, the Synchronicity Foundation, of course, you know, as you said, is a non-sectarian medication retreat. And also, the home of master Charles Cannon, who has created high-tech meditation for the world.

Alan and Naomi and Kia moves here 13 years ago. They are what we call in-house residents. They lived and worked here at the sanctuary. They were -- worked very close with Master Charles and his outreach to the world.

Alan is a brilliant writer. He probably wrote all of the material that we have today. He's also a brilliant Vedic astrologer. He's a meditation teacher and he also was, before he moved here, a college professor who taught at the University of Maryland.

He, during his life, has gone -- has -- yes, gone back and forth to India many, many times. Prior to being with Master Charles in Synchronicity, he was a TM teacher and would travel back and forth to India even in his early 20s and 30s.

Naomi always, because of her father's roots and her father talking about India, wanted to go. When this pilgrimage came up for a group of us to go to India, you know, with Master Charles, of which Alan was the organizer, his daughter jumped on board. And he was just delighted, tickled pink, to take her over there and show her, you know, what he had learned, all of the spiritual sites, all the different ashrams and meet some of the different spiritual gurus over there. Naomi --

PHILLIPS: Go ahead, Bobbie.

GARVEY: Naomi, in her 13 years, was a very, very bright young lady. Very positive, always jumping and skipping and you know, laughing. Finished eighth grade a year early, even though she was home schooled. She decided she wanted to go out in the world and see what the world was about.

She took her SSAT's a week before she went to India, because she decided and her own she was going to get a scholarship to the Emma Willard Boarding School in Troy, New York. She scored 92 percent nationally on those SSAT's and was going to write her essay for that application about her India trip.

PHILLIPS: You know, Bobbie, you listen to the background, you listen to Alan as a father, and Naomi and this relationship they had. And why they came to India and why they participated in the Synchronicity Foundation. And you know, it's all about finding that inner peace and a spirituality which you know, on many levels you can't find anywhere, but in India, just because of the history and the spirituality that embraces that country.

So trying to look at the positive side of this, and I know that's probably extremely difficult for all of you in the family. But what they were practicing, what they were focusing on, could it have brought them a sense of peace within all this chaos that they were experiencing, what they were experiencing when those attackers came in?

GARVEY: Absolutely. They were extremely balanced individuals. Much detached from the chaos around the world. And Alan you know, has practiced this inner focus, this inner peace and so had Naomi, you know, since she was born. It is my firm belief that that's the way they went out.

PHILLIPS: Bobbie Garvey, appreciate your insight.

GARVEY: OK. Thank you.

PHILLIPS: 1:33 Eastern time right now. And just a few minutes past midnight in Mumbai. We want to go back to the Taj Mahal hotel where the day has been filled with gunfire and explosions, chaos and confusion still.

Our Sara Sidner is there. She's been working all through the morning and through the night. She joins us now on the phone.

And Sarah, if you could just bring us up to date and explain to viewers why we are having to see our live coverage and only talk to our correspondents by phone and then give me an update what you know at this point.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Basically India has some very strict rules and laws concerning foreign media reporting signals through satellite outside of the country. It's from the old (INAUDIBLE) days when British ruled.

It has something to do with spying, basically. They don't allow foreign companies by law to send a satellite signal without a permit to outside, outside of country. We have changed (AUDIO GAP) and have been using that permit. But it has expired. And so, in order not to break the law here, we have turned down all of our video lines and have just been calling via phone. And so that is why you're not seeing me live standing in front of the camera, but yet hearing me call you on the phone.

We should mention, here is the latest, Kyra, outside of Taj. (INAUDIBLE) has gotten a bit quieter. But, we all know that that doesn't indicate necessarily anything more than new tactics or different tactics may be used or maybe people are doing other tactics inside. Because what we typically have been seeing over the past 48 hours are low and then loud bangs, loud explosions, lots of gunfire and then it goes silent again.

We do understand that there is a (AUDIO GAP) and then there's the heritage site, the large sprawling part of the hotel. The power has been cleared for quite some time now. And it's cleared most of yesterday. But the Heritage site, it's a big, beautiful, 105-year-old hotel, that is still the scene of the possible siege that's still going on. There are certainly officers that are still surrounding the area. There is certainly army personnel out in their full gear with their guns at the ready, waiting to go in or at least securing the outside of the hotel -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So Sara, just quickly, we still don't know if there's one or more gunmen. Is that right?

SIDNER: We have been told by the police that there is a single gunman still left inside that hotel. A single terror suspect, who we were told is armed with possibly an AK-47 and grenades.

But, again, there were five at one point in this 48-hour period and what we have not been told is what happened to the other four who they first said were inside of this hotel.

So still waiting to hear word on that. More importantly, waiting to hear word on anyone who may be holded up in that hotel. Anyone who may be a hostage at this point. And those members and details have just not been released by any officials (AUDIO GAP). We have been able to talk to people, over the course of these 48 hours who were inside that hotel by phone and by text. But certainly in the last five or six hours, we've heard nothing from inside that hotel from people who are holed up in their rooms -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Sara Sidner there, joining us by phone at the Taj hotel, where she has just told us still, one gun man holed up inside there. We'll bring you more information as we get it.

Scarred physically, scarred emotionally. The survivors of the Mumbai attacks have a long recovery ahead and we're going to talk with some of them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, more than 50 hours of terror and it's not over yet. It's midnight in Mumbai, India, still reeling from a string of coordinated terrorist attacks that began on Wednesday.

At least 160 people are now confirmed dead. More than 320 wounded and gunfire still being reported at one of the nine targeted sites. Police believe at least one gunman is still holed up at the Taj Mahal hotel.

Indian commandos stormed a second targeted site. The Chabad Jewish Center. Five hostages are dead there, including an American rabbi and his wife, along with two gunman. Meantime, commandos have secured another luxury hotel, the Oberoi. They freed the remaining hostages and killed two remaining gunmen, but not before at least 30 people were killed.

And we wanted to also let you know live satellite transmission from India has to be approved by the Indian government and unfortunately they're not extending CNN's live transmission license. As a result, CNN is no longer able to broadcast live from the scene of the attacks. However we will continue to have correspondents at the Taj hotel and other locations in Mumbai, and will be reporting from the various sites by phone.

Now, wounds on their bodies, memories that will stay in their minds forever. The hundreds of people hurt in the Mumbai attacks are filling up local hospitals.

CNN's Matthew Chance has gotten exclusive access to one of those hospitals.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're the survivors of Mumbai's appalling attacks, scarred by gunshots and shrapnel wounds in the violence that gripped India's financial heart. Some only escaped death by a whisker.

Like 40-year-old Romesh (ph), who showed me the bullet hole in his shoulder, inflicted when gunman burst into the restaurant where he was eating with his boss. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My boss died on the floor. So, he was sitting in the sofa, we were hiding. So, I saw this person coming with the gun. So he was using a BlackBerry. I pulled the BlackBerry like this and cover him like this. So I got here on the -- no, here on the --

CHANCE (on camera): You got shot in the shoulder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first one. And he asked me, are you all right. I told, yes, I'm fine. Second shot came to him on the -- direct to him. And the third it came and just went like this.

CHANCE (voice-over): We were granted exclusive access to Mumbai's Sundjaja (ph) hospital, where most of the injured from the past few days are being treated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the belt of one of the policemen who --

CHANCE: One doctor shows me a twisted belt buckle he said stopped a terrorist's bullet, saving the life of the policeman who was wearing it.

(on camera): All of these injured have incredible stories of survival to tell. Many have lost friends and loved ones in the Mumbai attacks. And they may not even be the last casualties to come out of this mess. This city's nightmare is far from over.

(voice-over): For some like this 13-year-old boy, the nightmare may never end. He's nursing wounds from a grenade blast that ripped through one of Mumbai's residential zones. He wants to leave hospital soon, he told me, and go home. But doctors here say they don't have the heart to tell him that most of his family, his mom, his dad, his uncle and cousins were killed in the attack. It is another shattered life in a city now filled with tragedy.

Matthew Chance, CNN, Mumbai.

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PHILLIPS: Well, evacuating the wounded and keeping hostages safe, all while dodging the terrorist bullets, Indian police and commandos have their work cut out for them. Former SWAT commander Howard Robertson, still with us from New Orleans.

And you know, Howard, we've been talking all throughout the hour. One thing I want to ask you, you talked about how this is pretty historic with regard to what you're seeing.

What do you think is the most difficult thing, whether they're trained really well or haven't or haven't had extensive training, what's the biggest challenge here?

ROBERTSON: Probably the biggest challenge is dealing with you. Dealing with the media. As you saw just today, the military moved the media back. Because the media's always trying to get closer and closer to get you know, that perfect shot of what's going on.

And that exposes the officers, it exposes the team, everything's being shown on television. And today with cell phones and radio transmissions, I'm sure the terrorists have outside terrorists in the crowd that's reporting what's going on, giving them feedback of what's happening. And that's really hard for SWAT commander when he knows that everything that's going on is being reported. So, it's hard to do something that's tactical and that's a surprise attack when everything's being reported.

PHILLIPS: You know, you bring up a really good point and you and I even through the years of working together have had to, I guess we've banged heads a number of times on that issue. Because we want to get the story, we want to be able to tell what's going on.

At the same time you need to act on a self manner. And that's probably a big reason why the Indian government probably is cutting off transmissions, because we can see where the snipers are on the roofs. We can see where commandos are moving to.

But, OK. So therein lies that challenge. But if we look at the tactics that are being carried out, through all of this, if you look at what they're doing specifically in the hotels. For example, the flash bangs. A lot of people are like, why are they throwing grenades in there and blowing out the windows? But, they're not. The flash bangs are just a distraction device.

ROBERTSON: But most reporters don't know that. That the assault teams going in are using their distractionary device, that when thrown in blows up like a hand grenade but it doesn't have fragments to hurt anybody. But it temporarily blinds them and makes them deaf, that gives that split second the entry team can go in and have an advantage.

Now, it will blow out a window. I mean, if it's real close to somebody, it may cause harm. But, for the most part it's just a distractionary device. And that's that split section that that assault team needs to get in. That's what happens when a reporter is not really trained on what's going on and what's happening. That sometimes they think it's the perpetrators using the hand grenades when it's actually the assault team going in.

PHILLIPS: Got it. Also, another advantage here, we're seeing the fast roping out of the helos. Very important tactic when it comes to speed and getting into position.

Explain how you've noticed that and why that seems to be working well here.

ROBERTSON: Well, what's really important is that even -- you know, dealing with criminals, most of the time they don't cover the roofs. Even though they might take a position at a window, they don't cover the roofs. Which, if you have a helicopter and you can you drop down on top, it gives you an advantage that you can start moving in, rather than from the ground floor, from the roof, where they're not expecting you. They're always expecting you to come up from the bottom. So, the helicopters are a tremendous advantage.

PHILLIPS: And finally, I know for you and for all men and women on various SWAT teams, the greatest feeling probably ever is bringing that hostage out alive. And we have seen a lot of those pictures of lives that have been saved.

Just tell me what that's like for someone like you when you know you have brought people out and they are breathing and smiling and waving and hugging their loved ones?

ROBERTSON: That's what it's all about. I mean, all about being a SWAT commander is to be able to use tactics that save someone's life.

Now, in this case, people are going to remember how many people died. And say, maybe the military didn't do a good job. That so many hundreds of people were wounded. But you know, the officers actually went in; the tactical officers, they're going to remember how many people they saved. And you know, that Jewish child that was saved. Those are the lives that they're going to remember.

PHILLIPS: Howard Robertson. And I know you remember saving a lot of lives. Really great to see you and appreciate the tactical insight, as usual.

ROBERTSON: Thanks a lot, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: You bet.

They're extra eyes and ears on ground. CNN iReporters giving another view of the carnage in Mumbai.

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PHILLIPS: Still a lot of people that want to get out of the hotels. Even more people, wanting to get out of Mumbai, right now. Phil Sullivan, one of our producers, actually at the airport in Mumbai, joining us by phone. All right. And we're told we've just lost him by cell phone. We'll try to connect again with Phil to find out what it's like there at airport. As you can imagine, a lot of people trying to get out of that country right now.

Well, the terrorist siege in Mumbai and firsthand accounts from CNN's iReporters. These images now from Aaron Kadri, show the Leopold restaurant, it's a popular tourist spot where gunman actually walked in and opened fire two days ago. The Mumbai natives says that security in the city is appalling. He's hoping that the Indian government will make use of the tragic lessons learned from those attacks.

We want to hear from you. When you witness news, share it with us. Just go to iReport.com. But, remember to stay safe, of course while you're doing it.

All right. I'm told we do have our CNN producer now Phil O'Sullivan, on the phone from the Mumbai airport. Phil, go ahead and give us kind of an update, a description of what it's like there at the airport, Phil.

Can you hear me, Phil? Phil, it's Kyra. You're on the air, can you hear me OK? All right, we're still having trouble connecting to Phil. One more time.

Phil, can you hear me? It's Kyra.

VOICE OF PHIL O'SULLIVAN, CNN PRODUCER IN MUMBAI: Hi, Kyra. How are you?

Good. We're on the air, my friend. I know you're at Mumbai airport. Can you kind of give me an idea of what it's like right now? Are a lot of people trying to get out of the country?

O'SULLIVAN: Yes, there are. It's remarkable, actually. A lot of cars setting up with people whose (INAUDIBLE) have been staying in both the Oberoi and the Taj Hotel. Here are these (INAUDIBLE) getting out of these cars. Basically to close their (INAUDIBLE). Many of them carrying small plastic bags with a couple of documents of money or a passport. But a lot of people leaving the country without even a passport or anything. Just the clothes they're standing in.

PHILLIPS: Really, so are there regular flights leaving Mumbai? Are operations as -- are they normal, like they would on any other day? Are there more flights, less flights?

O'SULLIVAN: From what we understand, a lot of people have had to cancel their flights they were going on to try to get emergency travel documents. And they're turning up and hoping to get on the first flight they can to get out of the country.

I understand the European Union is putting on official flights for some Europeans nationalities -- French et cetera, who are leaving as quickly as possible. Because a lot of guests in hotels, especially at the Oberoi (AUDIO GAP) over 200 guests came out of that hotel. They were previously leaving a hostage situation. Many of them, I would say probably the vast majority are heading straight to the airport to try to get out of India as quickly as they can.

PHILLIPS: Well, Phil, are they letting them leave without their passports and identification?

All right. It looks like we lost Phil. As you can imagine, it's tough to get a cell phone connection there. But it's interesting, one of our producers Phil O'Sullivan there at Mumbai airport. A lot of people trying leave the country now after the seize in Mumbai. 160 people dead, more than 300 wounded. Still a really tough time tactically right now, for the commandos trying to get that one remaining gunman out of the Taj hotel (sic) there in Mumbai.

We'll have more for you right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PHILLIPS: You know, just a few minutes ago, we were talking to Howard Robertson, the former SWAT commander in New Orleans. And he brought up a good point. That yes, we are going to remember the 160 people that have been killed in this rampage in Mumbai. But we can't forget about the hundreds of people that were able to get our of those hotels and that parts of Mumbai, alive.

A number of them rescued by police and commandos there in India. And we're starting to read about these unique stories of various people that have been able to escape or were rescued when this was all going down, within the past 50 hours.

One story in particular that was fascinating. Carol Mackoff and her husband and sister and friend were on the three-week trip to India. They were trapped in their rooms in the Taj Mahal hotel, which by the way, there's still a gunman holed up in that hotel. They were trapped in their rooms for 40 hours. But then were able to get out. We're just learning more about their story through their son Jonathan Mackoff. He joins us now on the phone from Chicago.

First of all, Jonathan, you must be absolutely relieved to hear from your parents.

VOICE OF JONATHAN MACKOFF, FAMILY RESCUED IN MUMBAI: Very relieved.

PHILLIPS: Well, tell many what happened. They were trapped in their room, but they actually had interesting text correspondence going on with the consulate, is that right?

MUMBAI: Yes. Well, we got information to the State Department to -- I got them their room number and I got them my mothers cell phone number. And through that, they were able to contact and communicate with them.

PHILLIPS: Oh, my gosh. So you're the one that contacted the consulate. And --

MACKOFF: Well, I contacted the intermediary between the tour agency and the State Department. They contacted the consulate. Also another cousin of mine also contacted the State Department and we made sure they had the correct information. Because it was originally incorrect. We got them the correct information and then they were able to contact and get some communication going.

PHILLIPS: OK. So, once the communication got going, I'm told that your mom got a phone call in her room there at the Taj Mahal, apparently from a colonel in the Indian army.

Is that right and tell me what he said and how did she know that she could trust him?

MACKOFF: Well, she was talking to the U.S. consulate, I know. So, I didn't know about the colonel. I'm guessing the U.S. Consulate told her that that colonel was going to call. Because she was not trusting anybody that wasn't from U.S. consulate information. PHILLIPS: Got it. OK. Well apparently, I guess they were given a password, is that right? And if they came to the door, give them that password.

MACKOFF: I believe so.

PHILLIPS: OK. So it did work that way. They were able to get that password.

And then who came to the door and actually got them out of there?

MACKOFF: The Indian commandos came to the door. So all I know is around 12:15 a.m. Chicago time, they got a message that the assault was starting in about five minutes and to stay low, stay quiet. And then I checked on them through text message again at about 2:30 in the morning.

At 2:30 in the morning, they were saying that there was more gunfire, more explosions. They were just hunkering down, staying low. And they were just staying where they were put and not moving unless they were hearing from the U.S. Consulate. My next message I got from them was about 4:00 in the morning, when they were in the lobby, safe, you know, very appreciative of the Indian commandos and how professional they were and how great it was to be down, safe in the lobby.

PHILLIPS: Well, it's amazing that they got out of there. And it's a pretty incredible story, how it all happened.

Jonathan Mackoff, thank you so much.

MACKOFF: You're welcome.

PHILLIPS: Well, it's another grim and chaotic day in the seize in Mumbai. We've got a latest on the casualties, the hostages, and the attackers' last stand. Stay with us.

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