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Nightmare in Mumbai; Barack Obama's National Security Team; Car Salesmen Blues
Aired November 30, 2008 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: ... this hour. Here in the U.S., the president-elect is poised to name his national security team tomorrow. He'll do that in Chicago. And we'll tell you why Senator Hillary Clinton will be part of the Obama cabinet.
Meantime, the terror attacks in Mumbai have put India's edgy relationship with Pakistan even more on edge and those who survived the ordeal are reliving the scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROL MACKOFF, SURVIVED MUMBAI ATTACKS: We didn't realize the extent of the devastation until we were there and saw basically they trashed the hotel. It looks as if we came much closer to danger than we realized.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Our exclusive interview with a Chicago couple who lived through the three days of hell.
Plus, weather disrupts the final day of Thanksgiving travel. We'll have the forecast and a complete rundown of the delays, snarling flights and complicating everyone's efforts to get home.
But we start in India where this week's terror attacks are straining the already tense relations between India and its rival neighbor Pakistan. Indian investigators say the lone surviving attacker is from Pakistan and the Indian government is said to be considering a suspension of its 5-year-old cease-fire with its nuclear rival.
Meantime, India's home minister has resigned. He did that amid criticism that Indian forces reacted too slowly as the Mumbai attacks unfolded.
CNN's Andrew Stevens is live where those deadly attacks played out at the Taj Hotel. We talk to Andrew live in just a moment.
First, now, the investigation where India's response to the attacks is coming under criticism at home, but it's Pakistan's potential role that's the source of growing concern.
CNN's Nic Robertson has the latest from Mumbai.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Could this gunman hold the balance of regional peace in his hands? He is the only attacker to be captured alive. Indian police say he is Pakistani. And what he tells investigators could shape the rising tensions between these two nuclear neighbors.
(On camera): Government officials here were quick to blame Pakistan. Pakistan's ministers deny their country's involvement, have offered to help with the investigation, but are now considering boasting their troops along the border.
The two countries have fought three wars in the past 60 years. Getting this investigation right could not be more critical.
(Voice over): At a commemoration ceremony the police killed in the terror attack, Mumbai's police commissioner wanted to cool speculation.
(On camera): Commissioner Hasan, Nic Robertson from CNN. How are you doing?
COMMISSIONER HASAN GAFOOR, MUMBAI, INDIA POLICE: OK.
ROBERTSON: Sir, how is the investigation going at the moment?
GAFOOR: This is a condolence meeting. Even I can't talk right now. (INAUDIBLE) our sentiments.
ROBERTSON: Absolutely.
(Voice over): It is indeed a tough time for the city. But India's maze of new, independent media outlets have a steady stream of leaks from investigators. They vary widely. Few can agree on the captured gunman's name.
Our sister network, CNN-IBN, has sources inside India's intelligence community. They're being told the gunman was trained and helped by Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistan-based al Qaeda terror group.
Indian officials allege in the 1990s Lashkar-e-Taiba was a state- sponsored terror group used by the Pakistani government to get control of the disputed northern Kashmir region, as well as being responsible for many more recent attacks here. Pakistan banned Lashkar-e-Taiba in 2002.
CNN-IBN has also been told the captured gunman says he and his fellow attackers were told to memorize Google Earth maps of Mumbai streets so they could find their targets.
(On camera): As a measure of how seriously the attack and rising tensions are being taken in western capitals, the FBI is sending a team to help, British investigators also expected. And Interpol, the international policing group, are also in negotiations with Indian authorities to send in their teams.
(Voice over): While the country mourns its fallen heroes, an undercurrent of anti-Pakistan sentiment is growing. Managing that while conducting a thorough and open investigation may be this country's biggest challenge in the coming weeks.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Mumbai, India.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Let's go live now to where those attacks happened.
Andrew Stevens is in Mumbai. And it is early Monday morning there. No doubt it's going to be a very busy week. We've been talking a lot about the economy in this country and the western part of the world.
Mumbai is a financial capital of India. The markets opened today. Do we have any idea what the expectations are, Andrew?
ANDREW STEVENS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the expectations are, Don, that it is going to be a very choppy trading session for the next few weeks here in India because it's not only these attacks, obviously, which has shaken confidence both inside India, but also outside in the fact that companies and business people coming to India are going to have second thoughts about coming here right now.
And as far as domestically, it's all part of the global economic slowdown so the Indian market has been underperforming any way. It's going to be pretty rough far. We don't have a clear indication of what the Bombay SENSEX index will do this day.
But certainly, if you look around the streets, the tension is still very high. There are pockets of protests, I would say, and Nic was talking about the anti-Pakistan protest and there are pockets of protests generally as well.
LEMON: Yes.
STEVENS: Just about how the Indian authorities have reacted to this.
LEMON: Right.
STEVENS: And why they didn't stop it in the first place. Why the intelligence sources didn't work?
LEMON: And we are talking this. Absolutely. Are things getting back to normal? What's the reaction to -- on the streets from people there, Andrew?
STEVENS: Well, definitely, business is getting back to normal, Don. Like yesterday we walked extensively around this area of south Mumbai where most of the attacks, I mean, all of the attacks took place and for the first time we saw shops opening and a theater, a cinema -- movie cinema was open.
That's the first time we had seen that, because there have been fears here that there may be one or even two gunmen still out there somewhere, maybe gone to ground, maybe armed, maybe with explosives. A movie theater has already been a target once. LEMON: Right.
STEVENS: But certainly, businesses are getting back open now and we're seeing -- as I said, there are pockets of protests on the streets.
LEMON: All right. CNN's Andrew Stevens in Mumbai in front of the Taj Mahal Hotel. We appreciate your reporting.
At least five Americans are among those killed in the India attacks. They include Alan Scherr, a 58-year-old American from Virginia. Now he was with 20 other members of a community called Synchronicity which promotes meditation.
His 13-year-old daughter, Naomi, was sadly, she's also killed. Three others from the group were wounded.
29-year-old Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg was killed at the Mumbai Jewish center. He held dual Israeli and American citizenship. His wife Rivka also was killed. But their 2-year-old son was smuggled out of the house to a safety -- to safety by a center worker.
The people who were trapped inside the Taj Mahal Hotel during the terrorist siege are telling some amazing stories. CNN's Ed Lavandera talked exclusively with Benjamin Mackoff and his wife Carol in Chicago. They described what it was like to be inside their room while the terrorists took control of the hotel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
C. MACKOFF: We didn't know that -- until later on that they were shooting doorways and throwing grenades and that...
BENJAMIN MACKOFF, SURVIVED MUMBAI ATTACKS: Yes.
C. MACKOFF: ... they did that across the hall from us so we...
B. MACKOFF: Yes. We...
C. MACKOFF: ... were very close to having a grenade tossed in our room.
B. MACKOFF: Yes.
C. MACKOFF: You don't escape from that. Bur we didn't know that at the time...
B. MACKOFF: Right.
C. MACKOFF: ... which probably helped us make...
B. MACKOFF: Yes.
C. MACKOFF: ... what we felt were good decisions. It looks probably a very, you know, foolish -- you know, foolish actions but it's made us feel like we were in control of something. B. MACKOFF: Yes, because we stayed away from the door figuring that they could shoot through the door. We didn't think about grenades. But we did hear explosions and we figured that maybe plastic or something like that they're doing just to raise havoc in the place.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): And what goes through your mind when you hear them ring the door bells to your room?
B. MACKOFF: Don't answer it. I said...
C. MACKOFF: Yes.
B. MACKOFF: I mean, if there's -- not the fear. They said...
C. MACKOFF: We should have been more afraid but for some reason maybe it's the human condition.
B. MACKOFF: Yes.
C. MACKOFF: There's always hope so we just stayed -- tried to stay out of their way.
B. MACKOFF: Out of shooting range.
C. MACKOFF: And out of shooting range not realizing what they were actually doing. So in that ignorance we probably were able to stay more patient than we might have been if we had known that they were throwing grenades into other rooms and how close they were.
LAVANDERA: What made them not shoot the door down?
C. MACKOFF: We don't know.
B. MACKOFF: I don't know whether -- it may be that they didn't see any light coming from us. It may be...
C. MACKOFF: But there was one additional factor that bothered me for the entire 48 hours. Just before we went to bed I hung a "Do not disturb" sign on the door. And all I could think of -- that's made our door an obvious target because of that sign.
It bothered me. I kept thinking if I could just open the door crack I could quickly pull the sign in and lock it again but I didn't even want to take that chance.
B. MACKOFF: No. No.
C. MACKOFF: It made me uncomfortable.
LAVANDERA: It was an obvious sign that there was somebody in there who didn't want to be disturbed.
C. MACKOFF: Exactly.
B. MACKOFF: Or, or somebody had left and didn't want the maid to make up or to touch the luggage or something like that. And since they were able to look inside, you know, no people and see no light coming from it, apparently they decided...
C. MACKOFF: We don't know what went through their mind.
B. MACKOFF: Yes, exactly.
C. MACKOFF: We just know that there were signs that should have been someone in the room but for whatever reason, they did ring our doorbell twice on two different occasions but they didn't shoot the door down. And I don't know why. I don't know why. I'm just grateful they didn't.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Boy, can you even imagine that? We're glad that they survived and our hearts go out to the Mackoffs. We want to tell you the Mackoffs were quick to praise the commandos who rescued them. And they said the incident would not prevent them from visiting India again.
Very interesting response from them. We look forward to hearing more from the Mackoffs tonight at 11:00 p.m. Eastern here on the CNN as well.
Meantime, President-elect Barack Obama is on the verge of naming his national security team. Democratic Party sources say Obama's picks will include his one-time political rival, Hillary Clinton.
Here's our Ed Henry with the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Fresh terrorist attacks in India. Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. All soon landing on the desk of President-elect Barack Obama, who's assembling a cabinet already winning rave reviews.
DAN BENJAMIN, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: This is not about playing small ball. This is really about going at just the most daunting agenda I think any new president has confronted in at least half a century.
HENRY: On Monday Mr. Obama will unveil a high powered national security team the two Democratic officials tell CNN will include Senator Hillary Clinton as secretary of state, Robert Gates staying as defense secretary, and retired Marine general, Jim Jones, expected as national security adviser.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Obama will send out reassuring signals not only to the United States but around the world that the -- that American foreign policy is going to be in good, sound, experienced hands on January 20th.
HENRY: Even Republicans are expressing admiration for a group that Democratic officials confirm will also include Susan Rise as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Janet Napolitano as Homeland Security secretary, and Eric Holder as attorney general. ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Extraordinary talent. And I think the interesting thing is that even though I'm in the opposite party, these are people that are widely respected by Republicans on the Hill.
You've not heard anybody pointing fingers in saying this is a bunch of light weights.
HENRY: But some critics are raising questions about whether a so- called team of rivals modeled on Abraham Lincoln's administration will be dysfunctional.
Historian Matthew Pinsker wrote Sunday in the "Los Angeles Times," Lincoln was a political genius, but his model for Cabinet-building should stand more as a cautionary tale than as a leadership manual."
Plus many of the heavyweights are Washington insiders, which may run counter to the theme of Mr. Obama's campaign.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What do you say to -- you know, say your supporters who are looking for change?
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: What we are going to do is combine experience with fresh thinking, but understand where the vision for change comes from first and foremost. It comes from me. That's my job is to provide a vision in terms of where we are going and to make sure then that my team is implementing.
HENRY (on camera): Senior Obama aides say that principle applies to the president-elect's vow to remove all U.S. combat troops from Iraq within 16 months. Liberals, however, will be watching very closely to see if this Cabinet pushes the eventual new commander in chief be a little more flexible with that campaign promise.
Ed Henry, CNN, Chicago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right, Ed. Well, you know, we want to know what's on your mind as well tonight, you, our viewer. Log on to Twitter.com/donlemoncnn or Facebook.com, MySpace.com/donlemoncnn or iReport.com, and send us your thoughts.
As always we get them on the air in the 11:00 broadcast. We even have them scrolling in the ticker at the bottom of the screen. So log on, send us your responses.
And from the Midwest to the East Coast, if you're trying to get home, it's probably going to be slow. Many of you may be watching us on the airport network because you are delayed. Shake your head if that's right.
Our Jacqui Jeras is in the extreme weather center. She's keeping an eye on your travel forecasts. She is working it out for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Landing gear down.
LEMON: Always amazing to watch and it's so calming when it goes off without a hitch. It's very calming and it's good to say...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Touchdown.
LEMON: There you go. Touch down. A safe landing for Shuttle Endeavour. After more than two weeks at the International Space Station, Endeavour landed at Edwards Air Force Base in California just a couple of hours ago. It was diverted from landing at Florida's Kennedy Space Center because of bad weather.
And the shuttle astronauts aren't the only ones who have their flight disrupted because of weather. Post-Thanksgiving travelers, as you know, they are facing all kinds of delays tonight.
Our Jacqui Jeras monitoring all the weather patterns, everything from CNN Severe Weather Center. So out west is probably the only good place because it is a miserable day here.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Isn't it?
LEMON: I didn't want to get out of bed.
JERAS: You know?
LEMON: I just wanted to watch TV all day and eat bonbons in bed in my boxer shorts. I guess that's...
JERAS: I love that.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: I don't know, popcorn. Who knows?
JERAS: That's a picture a lot of us don't need. But that's OK. No.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Everyone in the whole newsroom -- Fredricka turned around and goes, bonbons including (INAUDIBLE)?
JERAS: Yes.
LEMON: All right. Popcorns.
JERAS: (INAUDIBLE) boxer shorts for luck here. Any way, yes, we won't go there.
(WEATHER REPORT)
LEMON: So we need to keep an eye on it.
JERAS: Yes, we do.
LEMON: And you said Vicky and Roy, right? Closer? JERAS: Yes.
LEMON: Yes.
JERAS: Chesmond(ph).
LEMON: Thanks, Vicky and Roy. Jacqui's...
JERAS: I know. Wasn't that nice of them? They're so pretty.
LEMON: Jacqui, I need this little disclaimer. I've never eaten a bonbon in my life. It's kind of the same.
JERAS: Never?
LEMON: So don't send me e-mail, everyone. But I do see here in Europe that they had the simplest form of bourbon -- that's no, yes, it's got bourbon in some places so.
JERAS: Bourbon?
LEMON: Yes, so...
JERAS: Thought we're talking bonbons? I'm lost.
LEMON: It could be right up my alley if it's got bourbon in there. Thank you, Jacqui.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: We want to know...
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: I had the crew cracking up there.
We want to know what's on your mind tonight. Make sure you log on to Twitter or Facebook, Myspace or iReport.com, tell me what you're thinking. You can even comment on me and my crazy comments sometimes.
OK. Doing the best job he can against some very long odds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JARED FOWLER, CAR SALESMAN: The consumer has no confidence especially to buy new cars. What can government do to perhaps instill confidence in them?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Seeing a car salesman blooms.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: $25 billion, that's the price you and I may be paying to keep the big three from going belly up. Why is that? Well, this week General Motors and Ford and Chrysler, well, they'll present a recovery plan to Congress. The deadline is Tuesday and hearings are scheduled later in the week. So the automakers were asked to give an account of how the bailout funds would be used before they get that check.
And if they do get the money they're asking for, the next hurdle is messaging customers into buying or massaging customers, I should say, into buying what they are selling. Because as it stands right now auto sales are stalled out. We know that. And guess who is really feeling it? I'm sure we know the answer to that question.
But here's CNN's Susan Candiotti.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): For 38 years -- yes, 38 years -- Jared Fowler...
FOWLER: Hello, how are you?
CANDIOTTI: ... has been the epitome of an enthusiastic GM salesman. He's ready for another day at Maguire's Saturn dealership in Bordentown, New Jersey.
FOWLER: Well, you know, I do a decent job. Not the greatest salesperson in the world. I just like what I do. I've never been down in this business.
CANDIOTTI: He may not be down but the industry is. GM, Ford and Chrysler all begging Congress for a $25 billion plus bailout.
FOWLER: The consumer has no confidence especially to buy new cars. What can government do to perhaps instill confidence in them?
CANDIOTTI: Fowler's boss who owns Saturn, Chevy and Nissan dealerships says something's got to give.
(On camera): How badly have you taken a hit?
MARCY MAGUIRE, CEO, MAGUIRE AUTOMOTIVE GROUP: Well, we are down almost 50 percent from last year which is unheard of. It's never been like this before. I can't even sugarcoat it.
CANDIOTTI (voice over): We shadowed Fowler for a day as he tried to cut into the sales slump.
FOWLER: Let me have a copy of your driver's license, please.
CANDIOTTI: He had a good start. A previous customer swung in to finish off an order then Fowler hit the phones for some customer callbacks.
FOWLER: Can I count on you to be in tomorrow?
CANDIOTTI: Then Fowler watched and waited around the showroom looking for walk-ins.
(On camera): How do you manage to stay so upbeat?
FOWLER: Well, that's just -- that's me.
CANDIOTTI (voice over): But what to do to get more customers back in the buying seat? Congress may consider a new bill that revives making sales tax and interest payments on car loans deductible again -- at least through next year.
JIM APPLETON, N.J. AUTOMOBILE DEALERS ASSN.: The federal government needs to get into this game. They need to figure out how to get consumers off the snide and buying cars again.
CANDIOTTI: At day's end Fowler gets one more crack at closing a deal but this couple isn't quite ready.
FOWLER: I'm going to cling it for you, fill it with gas? Do we have a deal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We still have to talk.
CANDIOTTI: Fowler shrugs it off and calls it a good day.
FOWLER: Sold one car, met a couple that will probably buy another -- buy a car from me and I have two appointments for tomorrow.
CANDIOTTI: At 8:63, Jared Fowler has no plans to quit as long as the business doesn't quit on him.
Susan Candiotti, Bordentown, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Correct. Well, you know, it is about the size of Kansas, about the same size. And at the center of tensions between Pakistan and India, it might also be the key to these bombings in Mumbai. We're talking about Kashmir, the connection there. We'll take a look.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We have an update now on the aftermath of those attacks in Mumbai. The terrorist siege is straining the already tensed relations between India and its rival neighbor Pakistan.
Indian investigator say the lone surviving attacker is from Pakistan and the Indian government is said to be considering a suspension of its five-year-old ceasefire with its nuclear rival.
LEMON: Meantime, India's home minister has resigned amid criticism that Indian forces reacted too slowly as the Mumbai attacks unfolded.
The Mumbai investigation is spotlighting India's tense ties with Pakistan but publicly, at least, Pakistani officials are pledging cooperation in the fight against terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOUSUF RAZA GILANI, PAKISTANI PRIME MINISTER: I think this is a heinous crime and we condemn it, and I think this terrorism is a menace for the whole world and therefore we have to work jointly to combat terrorism and extremism.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So there is India and there's Pakistan, and in the middle of both is an enduring conflict over Kashmir.
CNN's T.J. Holmes explains why and how the power struggle may have spilled over into Mumbai.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
T.J. HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): So long as there's been an India and Pakistan, there's been trouble over Kashmir.
Ownership and control over a rugged region of mountains and valleys the size of Kansas is head and shoulders the main reason India and Pakistan have been at each other's throats for 60 plus years. The last 18 of which have been especially deadly. 43,000 people dead.
Back in the 1940s India and Pakistan fought their first war over Kashmir. There would be two more with both countries developing nuclear weapons in the meantime. Ceasefires and skirmishes and cross- border attacks and incursions and pullbacks, all as attempts at peace talks between India and Pakistan often failed over the sticky subject of Kashmir.
Now some analysts believe there could be a link between the attacks in Mumbai and the militant group, Lashkar-e-Taiba. That's the organization the U.S. State Department called one of the biggest and best trained groups fighting against India control of Kashmir.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: That was CNN's T.J. Holmes. And I spoke with Floria Younis, a former FBI agent and the South Asia-Middle East consultation about the investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) LEMON: Floria, for years we have been warned that that region is so volatile that something was bound to happen. There are coordinated attacks there all the time but not to this degree.
Are you surprised that it happened now?
FLORIA YOUNIS, FMR. FBI AGENT: Well, I mean I never hoped that anything like this happens but it doesn't surprise me that something like this happened in the South Asian region.
LEMON: Why not?
YOUNIS: Well, if you look at what's been happening, this -- the whole war in Afghanistan going on, Pakistan is having a lot of internal and external issues that they're dealing with, and any countries that (INAUDIBLE) with any such violence is going on, a lot of other countries almost feel the impact of it.
Plus India itself has many different issues. There's the whole Kashmiri region which has been unresolved in terms of -- since 1947. Both -- you know, a lot of countries claim to have larger portions of that region. You have almost 150 million Muslims that live in India, some of them, you know, claiming that they're not treated equally.
So you have so many different issues going on and we haven't even touched upon the al Qaeda presence in Pakistan and Afghanistan and all of the training camps that they have over there.
COLLINS: Yes, and you know, what's, what's interesting here, and let's just be honest, because, you know, even the media has not focused on that area a lot, especially because there is unrest there when it comes to the caste system.
You mentioned Kashmir as well. And many times this doesn't bubble up to the surface of at least the mainstream media in the United States and abroad, even in the western media.
YOUNIS: Yes. I mean my sympathies goes out to all of the people and their families that were killed but these type of things, I think, actually, as sad as it is, these type of things will continue to happen.
There's a whole group of people out there that maybe they have -- for various reasons whether have grievances with the government, whether it's a religious ideology, whether it's, you know, other things that cause them, but they clearly believe that this is the answer to their problems which is to commit this violence and get certain amount of attention.
LEMON: Depending on where you go in India there are some places you go and you see lots and lots of security and armed guards and armed forces out. And then there are other places you don't.
Why Mumbai? Do you think they picked this particular place because of a lack of security or was it possibly an inside job? Did they have inside help with this? YOUNIS: Well, a lot of this is yet to come out. But when these type of groups do focus on a place to go, they always see where is it the easiest that they can attack and which places will have the most impact.
So whether it was New Delhi or some other larger cities in India, whether it's the fact that, you know, Mumbai is the capital of all of their video productions, they pick different cities. They pick the ones that they feel like they have the best access to and also ones that they feel like they will get enough media coverage and enough people affected.
LEMON: The same reason why the terrorists on 9/11 picked New York City is because of all of the media coverage they would get from picking those targets.
What can be done besides -- I guess, many countries coming together, the allies, if you will, or NATO coming together to help this region out. What do you see being done to help -- to prevent this from happening again in India?
YOUNIS: Yes. In fact, you know, you give -- you give a really good question that goes right to the heart of the problem and that is what can we be doing to prevent some of these things.
I think one of the things is we have known for the past 50 years that Kashmir is a very hot topic, and it can get a lot of people passionately involved from all sides. We should actually really start focusing on some of these -- I call them the hot spots around the world. There's almost half a dozen.
We need to put a really a strong committed effort to resolving some of these issues whereas the moderates of all sides are at least happy. The fanatics and the extremists will never be satisfied unless they get everything that they want but if we can make moderates of populations of all sides happy with some sort of agreement, I think it will lessen the amount of people that choose to take this violence load as the solutions to their problems.
LEMON: Floria Younis, thank you.
YOUNIS: Thank you so much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Want to talk about another story here, really incredible, because this person was trampled and then crushed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIMBERLY GIBBS, SHOPPER: They're savages. They're savages. What they did this morning, they're savages. That's not right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. The ugly side of Black Friday. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: It's not a whole lot but it's something, especially, you know, when you compare it to better economic times. But early reports indicate that retail sales are up 3 percent at the official start of the holiday shopping season.
That is a $10.6 billion shot in the arm but this boost did not come with a price -- it did come with a price, I should say, as retailers slashed prices in order to attract those crowds.
OK, if you have not been paying attention to the news all weekend, listen to this one because it's unbelievable. It happened in Long Island and that's where police may seek criminal charges after a Wal- Mart worker was trampled to death in the predawn Black Friday shopping frenzy.
Jackie Lukas with CNN affiliate News 12 Long Island talked to witnesses.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GIBBS: They're savages. They're savages. What they did this morning, they're savages. That's not right.
JACKIE LUKAS, NEWS 12 LONG ISLAND REPORTER: Kimberly Gibbs still can't get over what she witnessed. This is cell phone video of EMT surrounding a store employee trying to save his life. He died after being trampled by hundreds of Black Friday shoppers who pushed their way into this Wal-Mart at the Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream.
TERRENCE HOWARD, SHOPPER: They had no control of the crowd. Security guards couldn't stop the people from coming in.
LUKAS: As soon as employees unlocked the doors at 5:00 a.m., cops say the crowd of more than 2,000 people poured in. The shoppers physically broke down the doors to get inside. Stampeding to the sales and knocking down the store employee, 34-year-old Jdimytai Damour of Jamaica, Queens.
Police say hundreds of people ran over him as other employees tried to help.
DET. LT. MICHAEL FLEMMING, NASSAU COUNTY POLICE: First officers at the scene attempted to give first aid to this victim. And as they were giving first aid, those police officers were also jostled and pushed by this crowd of shoppers rushing and forcing their way into the store.
LUKAS: Police also say a 28-year-old pregnant woman was taken to the hospital but she and the baby are OK. Five others suffered minor injuries. Even after the tragedy, some people were still trying to shop in the store.
GIBBS: When they were saying that they had to leave, that somebody, an employee got killed, people are saying, yes -- and they're yelling I've been on line since yesterday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought everybody said it was fun to come out on Black Friday to shop. I was looking for fun. Not for this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: OK. All right. Well, here's what Wal-Mart said. Released a statement about what happened. And they said, "We expected a large crowd this morning," and that was yesterday morning, I should say, "and added additional internal security, additional third party security, additional store associates, and we worked closely with the Nassau County Police. We also erected barricades. And despite all our precautions this unfortunate event occurred."
Send me some responses about that on that one on Twitter or Facebook. I want to hear what you think about that as well.
OK, so they are right. It is unfortunate. And it is disturbing. And it leaves us asking what makes people so insensitive, so inconsiderate, so selfish and downright really, to be honest, dangerous?
I asked Dr. Gloria Morrow, a clinical psychologist, if she thought the mob mentality boils down to group think.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. GLORIA MORROW, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It is group think. I think once people are caught up in the adrenalin rush of rushing out to get what they come after, they have very little opportunity to think rationally about the fact that someone is pinned under them or the potential for other people to be harmed.
And, you know, with group think everyone wants to try to please the group so that...
LEMON: Yes.
MORROW: ... they are all acceptable.
LEMON: Yes. OK.
MORROW: Yes.
LEMON: So afterwards you know a man is laying there on the ground. Here's...
MORROW: Yes.
LEMON: ... what I don't get. I get everybody being excited, OK? You want to get in there. You want to be these door busters, and that's -- you know, maybe we to come out with a different name for it besides door buster.
But you get in there and you realize someone is dead. Why do you still want to shop, Doctor? I mean we came here to shop. We didn't come here for this, and they want to shop any way after the man is dead.
MORROW: Well, you know, the brain is an interesting thing. Sometimes we will try to separate something that's so horrendous and horrible from our psyche in order to cope with it. And I think people really did not want to deal with the fact that their behavior caused someone to lose their life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right. We turn now to chaos in Thailand. It leaves thousands of tourists stranded as pro and anti-government rallies intensify. We're going to have a live report straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. It is a crisis that's virtually shut down an entire country and tonight it is growing. We're hearing that government supporters and government opponents are on the streets of Thailand right now.
And our Dan Rivers is in Bangkok.
Dan, yesterday when I spoke with you, you were at the airport. Where are you now?
DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm in the center of town now, Don. And we have an even worse situation, if you like, than when I last talked to you. Now we have not only anti-government protesters who occupy the main airport. But we've also have pro government demonstrators who occupy a big square in the middle of the city.
They're saying they're not going to move until the other guys move. So you've got yellow-clad anti-government protesters and you've got red-clad pro-government protesters.
It's a bit like two sinister football teams sort of facing off across the city at one another. Neither side is willing to back down. And then in the middle of all this you've got about 100,000 tourists who, frankly, haven't really got any idea where all this is about and just want to get home but they can't because all the flights have been canceled.
LEMON: Well, Dan, my question to you is because, as you were speaking here, we are looking at all of these people carrying suitcases and they are stranded at these two airports.
I haven't heard anything from any of the people who are inside stranded. No cell phone calls or what have you. So I have to ask you, what is reaction from those folks? Have you spoken to any of them at all?
RIVERS: Yes, we -- spoke to several of them. Yesterday we spoke to a young couple who are here on honeymoon, believe it or not, and it's -- they were saying it's turned into a total disaster for them.
They've already have missed a week or a few days of work. They don't know who is paying for their hotel they're in at the moment. There's confusion whether it's the airline or whether it's the tourist authority of Thailand.
LEMON: But Dan, Dan, no concerned for violence, right?
RIVERS: And they have tried every single route they can to get out. And they just can't. There's the military asking where some flights are going but it's jam-packed. And they are now considering driving overland to Cambodia just in order to get out of Thailand.
LEMON: OK. Hey, Dan, we have to go, but yes or not. Is there any concern about violence? Are these people concerned at all?
RIVERS: They are. Yes.
LEMON: OK.
RIVERS: And I think that's a big risk.
LEMON: All right. Dan Rivers, we appreciate it. Thank you very much.
We're also following a crisis in Nigeria where fighting between Muslims and Christians has claimed hundreds of lives in the central city of Jos. A local Muslim religious leader says more than 340 people have been killed and that most of the victims are Muslim. It is not clear how many Christians are dead.
The fighting started after both sides disputed the results of a local election which pitted a Muslim candidate against a Christian candidate. A Muslim religious leader says fighting has calmed in the city tonight but people there still don't feel safe.
It was an unbelievable image to see. The last house standing after Hurricane Ike devastated part of the Texas coast, and we'll check back in with its owner. The owner to see how they're rebuilding process is going.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: A lot of people are saying that -- how do you say that? Whew? Can you say it better than me?
JERAS: No.
LEMON: No?
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Jacqui Jeras is sitting next to me. A lot of people are saying that today because it's the official end of the Atlantic hurricane season and it runs from June 1st to November 30th.
This year was the fourth most active since 1944. A total of 16 named storms and five major hurricanes. The worst one hitting the U.S. was Hurricane Ike, which tore through the Texas Gulf Coast. It seems like it just happened, Jacqui. Insurance damage from Ike tops $8 billion. Wow. That's a lot of money and a lot of lives, too, not just money, but lives.
JERAS: Yes, it was...
LEMON: Yes.
JERAS: ... high impact hurricane season certainly and we had a lot of records.
LEMON: Yes, I was checking all my fact, I was worried because Jacqui was sitting right next to me and I said I hope I have all this right because she's going to do this.
JERAS: You did. No, you did.
LEMON: I did? I was right? OK.
JERAS: It was an above average season, we had a lot of records like the 11th year in a row that we've had above average high numbers of hurricanes. The forecasters also got this one right, and of course your hurricane headquarters was all over the hurricanes, but we can't be everywhere at once.
And thanks to our iReporters, we were able to bring you some incredible pictures that we wouldn't have been able to do ourselves.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JERAS (voice over): It wasn't even a hurricane, but (INAUDIBLE), our iReporters are out in force.
Bryan Whynacht of Palm Bay, Florida shot this video in three feet of water and watched as a truck with four-wheel drive helped get the mail man out of high water. Some girls just want to have fun in a tropical storm. Lloyd Gould caught a big wave crashing over this trio in Key West, Florida which someone say was (INAUDIBLE) landfall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tornado.
JERAS: Hurricane Gustav spawned a tornado over the Naval Air Station in Pensacola. IReporter Kevin Rockwell was delivering a pizza when he heard the warning and got out his camera.
It looks like a scene from the TV show "COPS," but look what Hurricane Ike drags out. Katie Lott of Crystal Beach, Texas called law enforcement containing a gator to bring it back to its natural habitat.
And probably the most compelling hurricane iReport we have ever seen. This picture of a loan house left standing after Ike's destructive power leveled everything around it.
Ireporter Ray Asgar captured this startling image and guilt-crest taxes on September 17th. Later the homeowner's sister, Judy Hudspeth, sent us the before photo.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JERAS: Those were just some amazing pictures. You know, that picture alone, I think, just summed up Hurricane Ike for so many people. Just an incredible story. And just to see that one house standing there all by itself.
LEMON: I wonder how they're doing. What do you think?
JERAS: Well, we're going to check in with them right now.
LEMON: Really?
JERAS: Absolutely. Pam Adams is the owner of that lone house on the Boulevard Peninsula.
Pam? Good evening.
PAM ADAMS, HURRICANE SURVIVOR: Good evening to you.
JERAS: Tell -- what are you doing now? You're not obviously there anymore. You've moved to Baytown, Texas?
ADAMS: Yes, we had it get us an apartment in Bay Town temporarily until we can get us hour repaired.
JERAS: So you're going to repair or are you planning on rebuilding.
ADAMS: Yes, we are. We can hardly wait to get back there.
LEMON: Pam, how is it going? What stage are you in? Have you had that the insurance people come out and the contractors? What's going on?
ADAMS: The insurance people have been out and everything, but we're still waiting for them to settle. So there's not much really that we can do until after the insurance finishes up and everything so we can start our repairs and go back home.
LEMON: Is that a big problem with the folks from there, getting the insurance and all that together, and getting contractors or I imagine that so much damage that it's just a backlog.
ADAMS: Yes. It's really sad town there. People are starting to (INAUDIBLE) properties and bring in dirt and everything, and trying to get the debris to the road so it can be picked up and everything. And it's just a mess down there, it's really devastating.
JERAS: Now, Pam, you've been through this once before. You lost your home to hurricane Rita a few years ago. And now you're rebuilding yet again. I have to ask, why are you doing it again?
ADAMS: I just love the beach. That's where we wanted to retire to and we could have picked anywhere and we picked right there where we built our home, which we named Fantasy. And we built there and we plan on staying there.
LEMON: Yes.
ADAMS: Hopefully this won't ever happen again in our life time.
LEMON: Yes. Well, we certainly hope it didn't.
JERAS: Can't imagine all you've been through, Pam.
LEMON: Yes. We certainly hope it doesn't. What's your husband saying? Your husband is Warren?
ADAMS: Warren, yes.
LEMON: He's letting you do all the talking?
ADAMS: Yes, he's letting me do all the talking.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Well, we certainly...
ADAMS: We miss our neighbors. We can hardly wait to be standing out on our deck and watching the structures go back up and everyone come back home.
JERAS: Pam, are most of them rebuilding like you?
ADAMS: Most of them are, yes. Some of them are not going to from what I hear, they've had enough and they don't want to ever have to go through this again and they're tired of running from hurricanes and everything.
But there's still some of us that are -- just love the beach and can't hardly wait to get home.
JERAS: All right. Pam...
LEMON: That's understandable.
Well, Pam and Warren, we wish you the very best. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving and continued success and happiness.
JERAS: We wish you luck.
LEMON: A great holiday season.
ADAMS: Thanks so much for talking with us.
LEMON: All right. Keep us updated.
JERAS: Thank you.
And you know what, Jacqui, we've asking people to send in their responses to about what they think about all of this stuff, the overseas attacks, you know that Wal-Mart trampling and just a bunch of things and we're getting some feedback.
Here's Ville, V-I-L-L-E, 20 "and overseas attack may indicate that terrorists weren't able to find a way to attack within the U.S. but we must stay vigilante.
AdamBTA says, "I'm not more afraid, I think terrorists are looking for softer and more convenient targets.
KyleGoetz says, "I'm not worried at all the odds of being killed in a terrorist attack or less than that of being struck by lighting.
Just real quick for you before we go off the air. Social psychologists may have a better fit for the questions tonight on all of this stuff. We're talking about Wal-Mart.
All right. Join us tonight, 11:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN, also send us your responses. We will see you then.
