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U.S. Officially in a Recession; Hillary Gets Nod as Secretary of State; India Points Fingers at Pakistan for Terror Attacks; Black Friday Spending Better than Expected; American Survivors of Terror Attacks Share Story
Aired December 01, 2008 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, HOST: Hello, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN (voice-over): Putting meat on the national security bones. Team Obama rolls out some big and familiar names.
They were hardly best friends to begin with. Now, tensions are growing between the nuclear neighbors, India pointing fingers at Pakistan for last week's terrorist assault on Mumbai.
And remember when E.T. tried to phone home? Well, what happens if E.T. tries to phone us here on Earth? If he's trying, an operator is standing by to take the call.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Hello and welcome. I'm Betty Nguyen, live at CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. So let's get right to it, shall we?
First up, if you've been saying that the U.S. is in a recession, well, you have been right all along. In fact, you've been right for about a year now. You know, that "R" word, no longer a whisper. It is now an official declaration, so let's go to CNN's chief business correspondent, Ali Velshi.
All right. So the "R" word is fair for use out there, but my question is, why did it take us a whole year to come up with this?
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the rules around here are that the National Bureau of Economic Research is the one who determines, the body that determines when we're in a recession. And typically, you have to be able to look back on economic activity.
So while many Americans, in fact, were right in predicting that we were in one as early as December of 2007, you can't actually make it official until you've been through a few months of it.
Now let me just tell you: back in November of 2007, it was the first time that our national polls, our CNN/Opinion Research polls indicated that Americans felt that the economy was issue No. 1. It had topped the list and continued to, by the way, growing in importance ever since then. And then in December, the NBER says that the recession started in December. In January, we lost jobs in this economy for the first time in a long time, and we have lost jobs in this economy every subsequent month.
So again, the science of this is one thing, but we've been feeling it. And I think to most Americans, Betty, the idea that you have either lost your job or are losing your home or can't afford it or can't make end meet -- ends meet is more relevant to what's going on.
The key to remember is that the U.S. economy is heavily dependent on what we spend as individuals, unlike some other economies where government spending, maybe, is more important. So in the United States, unless there is some sense that individuals will be spending more at some point in the future, we don't know when we get out of this recession.
So we've been in it for about a year. Most global recessions have lasted 16 to 18 months. Does that mean that we're closer to the end than the beginning? Those are sort of all mysteries that remain to be involved.
But in the end it comes down to the jobs numbers. We've been losing. We lost 1.2 million jobs, Betty. We'll find out on Friday what the jobs loss for November were. We're expecting another 300,000. So we could be close to 2 million jobs lost by the end of 2008. It's not a great recipe for getting out of a recession.
NGUYEN: That's true. Now, is it mainly based on the jobs loss, because if you look at the Gross Domestic Product, the GDP...
VELSHI: Right.
NGUYEN: ... it looks like in the beginning of this year, what, the first and second quarters, it was up slightly?
VELSHI: What happens is the GDP comes out. It's an estimate. And then it gets revised three more times until one year later when you have the final. Typically in a recession, those estimates and the revisions end up being lower, so we are basing this on the expectation that they've been lower for each quarter and they're going to go lower.
But lately, in the last several years, the National Bureau of Economic Research has broadened out its definition of a recession. Because fundamentally, GDP may not be the most exact measure. If people are losing their jobs and not spending or can't get credit, other things in the economy slow down that may be measure -- better measures of it.
But again, Betty, this isn't sort of a banner that you can hang outside your house. It doesn't change your reality on the ground. Are you still in danger of losing your job. and can you make your bills?
NGUYEN: Got you. All right, Ali Velshi, thank you for that.
In the meantime, though, for Barack Obama, another key step in filling his cabinet. The president-elect announced his national security team just a short time ago in Chicago. And as expected, Hillary Clinton gets the nod as Obama's choice for secretary of state.
CNN's Ed Henry joins us now from Washington.
And Ed, is there some concern now over how well these former rivals will actually work together?
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Betty. That's going to be one of the big questions coming out of this, when you digest all of it, is you saw reporters at this press conference really pressing Barack Obama on the issue of a lot of the comments they made about each other back in the presidential campaign. You'll remember specifically Hillary Clinton running that 3 a.m. ad, saying Barack Obama couldn't handle a late-night crisis.
Also, Barack Obama had quoted back to him the fact that he had suggested that Hillary Clinton, as first lady, her meetings with foreign leaders were just sort of having teas, not really digging into policy.
And so I think while, initially, a few weeks back, everyone was talking about this "team of rivals" concept as a very positive one, there was an interesting op-Ed in "The Los Angeles Times" yesterday, where one historian was pointing out there were a lot of rivalries and a lot of problems, dysfunction in the Lincoln cabinet. Abraham Lincoln sort of pioneered this concept, and that maybe it won't work now.
Barack Obama insisted, though, that everybody in this team sort of shares a broad view of the world and how to deal with diplomacy. But certainly, I think, moving forward, one of the questions is going to be how he keeps all these high-powered personalities on the same page, Betty.
NGUYEN: Well, you know, what does keeping Gates on as secretary of defense really say about how Obama's going to deal with the war in Iraq?
HENRY: Another big question. I thought it was very interesting, that as soon as he announced and introduced Robert Gates, the current defense secretary, and said he's going to keep him on, he immediately said, but he's going to have a new mission, which is, in the words of the president-elect, responsibly ending the war in Iraq.
And he later said, after he got a reporter's question, that he thinks we're now on a glide path to removing U.S. troops from Iraq. But then take a listen to what he said right after that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I believe that 16 months is the right time frame, but as I've said consistently, I will listen to the recommendations of my commanders. And my No. 1 priority is making sure that our troops remain safe in this transition phase and that the Iraqi people are well served by a government that is taking on increased responsibility for its own security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: If you listen very closely to what he said about listening to commanders on the ground. That's something we've heard from President Bush time and time again. And that suggests, perhaps, some flexibility, that the 16-month time line is not that rigid.
And I can tell you, that's why a lot of liberals are raising some concerns, saying, "Wait a second. Is this 16-month time line going to be flexible, especially having someone like Secretary Gates on board? Will that push Barack Obama more to the middle?"
I can tell you, though, that even before this press conference, very senior Obama aides have insisted to me that he's making the policy, as you heard Barack Obama himself say today, and that he has not changed his position on the 16-month time line.
But I think you've got to watch and listen closely to how he's leaving a little bit of wiggle room about listening to the commanders. He certainly doesn't want to sound too rigid. But you can bet that liberals are going to be watching very closely over the next year, his first year in office, whether or not he actually keeps that promise, Betty.
NGUYEN: Yes, no doubt. Ed Henry joining us live today. Thank you, Ed.
HENRY: Thanks, Betty.
NGUYEN: Well, Hillary Clinton as America's top diplomat. Ahead this hour, right here in the NEWSROOM, we're going to hear what CNN political analyst Carl Bernstein has to say about the former first lady as secretary of state.
In India, many residents of Mumbai are going back to work and back to school today, but it's going to take a long time for life to get back to normal.
The burning question now is this: who were the ten people who took on the city of some 19 million and threw it into chaos? Indian officials blame what they call elements in Pakistan and want to know what Islamabad plans to do about all it. Well, Pakistan's government says there is no proof the attackers were based there, a tense blame game between the two uneasy and nuclear neighbors.
The U.S. is urging Pakistan to cooperate with the Mumbai investigation.
Indian police, they have lowered the death toll in Mumbai. Their figure right now at 179 nine dead, and about 300 wounded. That does not include the nine gunmen killed.
Matthew Chance joins us now with more from Mumbai.
Matthew, what's the latest in this investigation?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the investigation is still very much, Betty, in its early stages. There are still police and forensic teams and investigators at the main sites, the nine sites where these coordinated attacks took place last week.
I can tell you that the investigation at the moment, according to Indian officials, we just mentioned, is looking in the direction of some kind of action, some kind of training for these militants inside Pakistan. That's certainly been articulated, expressed by Indian officials.
As you mentioned, it's been categorically denied by the Pakistanis, though. They, on their part, have said that they will cooperate with the Indian government as much they can, trying to get to the bottom of which group, which individuals, carried out these attacks.
In terms of the Indian people, they're holding the Indian central government to a degree of responsibility for this: not for carrying it out, of course, but for failing to step in and to prevent these attacks being carried out on the country's financial capital.
Reports in Indian newspapers this morning suggesting that there were intelligence tip-offs up to a year ago intercepted by India's intelligence agencies that suggested there could be some kind of spectacular attack on this, Mumbai, India's financial capital, which were not acted on. And so there are big questions being asked now about the competence of the Indian authorities as it's currently set up, as they're currently set up, to deal with terrorist threats in this vast country -- Betty.
NGUYEN: All right. Matthew Chance, joining us live from Mumbai. Thank you, Matthew.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will be in New Delhi Wednesday to try to help cool some heads, as the situation plays out between India and Pakistan. She's in London today and met with the British foreign secretary. Rice said it's important for Pakistan to follow the evidence, wherever that leads.
Meanwhile, Carol and Ben Mackoff of Chicago spent about 48 hours holed up in the Taj Mahal Hotel. They weren't totally unaware of what was happening outside the door, but the full impact of that attack didn't hit them until they left.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROL MACKOFF, MUMBAI ATTACK SURVIVOR: We didn't realize the extent of the devastation until we were there and saw, basically, they trashed the hotel. It looks as if we came much closer to danger than we realized.
(END VIDEO CLIP) NGUYEN: And we are going to have much more of their survival story coming up in just a few minutes.
Icy roads, blowing snow. That has drivers just spinning out west of Denver. Interstate 70 was shut down for several hours yesterday, just as people were heading home after the holiday. More than 100 people had to spend the night at a Red Cross shelter.
And part of Illinois seeing their first major snowstorm of the season. Safe bet: it won't be the last. High winds expected to blow some of that snow around today, which is affecting visibility on the roadways.
So let's get all the latest now from CNN's Chad Myers. He's keeping an eye on the weather outside.
It couldn't have come at a worse time, Chad. People trying to get back to work from the holidays, and a lot of them just still stuck at the airport.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: You know, we knew it was coming on Wednesday when we said, "Hey, Wednesday, you're all going to get there just fine, but maybe Sunday and Monday may not be so good."
But in fact, it could have been a lot worse. And we say that just because, if this storm would have put a swathe of snow 10 to 12 inches, as it could have, across Indiana, Illinois, through the Ohio Valley, back up into New York, people would have been still trying to get home from Saturday or a Sunday trip. A trial, anyway. It's trial and error.
Not too many other people that we know of really were stranded on the roadways for more than two or three hours with a crash or something that they had to clear up. So no real rescues going on out there.
There's some heavy snow around Elkhart, Indiana. That's all part of the lake effect snow. Airports are not bad today, compared to yesterday, but an hour or two going to set you back.
Now, don't plan on that hour or two, because not every plane is late. So don't walk into the airport an hour after you're supposed to be there and expect your plane to still be around. It may not be.
Cold air in the east today. And for tonight, from Kansas City almost to Dallas, really, east of there, almost every location going to be below freezing again -- Betty.
NGUYEN: You know it's headed to winter when we're, what, 36 in Houston. OK.
MYERS: Not two ways (ph).
NGUYEN: All right, yes. OK. Thank you, Chad.
MYERS: You bet. NGUYEN: You know, it has been a rough start on Wall Street, but just a glimmer of hope for the holiday shopping season. We're going to take you live to New York to find out what kind of mood retailers are in after the big kickoff weekend.
And the search for E.T. A lot of folks think that we are not alone, and there are some serious efforts to find those little green men that might be lurking out there somewhere. We're going to find out what's going on from our space correspondent, Miles O'Brien.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: American travelers to India caught up in the nightmare of a terror attacks in Mumbai. They survive, and you are going to hear about their ordeal in a CNN exclusive interview.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Well, as we told you at the top of the hour, the National Bureau of Economic Research says it is official, folks: we are in a recession.
So let's go straight to Susan Lisovicz on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange for a look at what investors are doing today, how they're reacting to this.
Susan, it's not really new news, in the fact that we kind of have been in this for, what, a year now?
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Betty. I mean, we -- it's basically, the NBER has confirmed something that a lot of people have said for a long time. Economists have been calling this for months and months, and this is sort of anticlimactic in many ways.
The National Bureau of Economic Research says that the recession began last December. Bases it on not only the GDP. That was typically the way that a recession would be called, but on much broader studies that come out, and typically, among them, industrial production and employment.
And today, we got a report on construction spending that showed a decline greater than expected, and on manufacturing, which showed that it was at a 26-year low, the level. So we continue to get these reports that reinforce what these economists from the National Bureau of Economic Research show.
And meantime, stocks are receding, as well. The Dow is down 419 points. The NASDAQ is down 91. And Betty, I mean, we are coming off of five days of gains. And that was the first time we had seen that in about a year and a half.
NGUYEN: Really? OK. You know, we talked a lot about spending and holiday season and this, you know, sluggish economy. People are really going to not be out there buying the things that they have in the past. But if you look at the past weekend, you know, especially that Black Friday following Thanksgiving, people were out in force shopping.
LISOVICZ: They were, and that really defied, I think...
NGUYEN: Yes.
LISOVICZ: ... a lot of estimates on what we were expecting going in. The door busters really did become door busters. In fact, the National Retail Federation said sales were up more than 7 percent. Folks spent a whole lot of money, more than $40 billion, in just the holiday weekend.
Why is that? Well, maybe pent-up demand, because they basically stopped spending the previous months. But on the -- on the other hand, we also had deep discounts, really deep discounts. Retailers doing just about anything to get consumers in the door. And not sure if retailers can do that the remainder of this month. So the forecasts for the -- for the entire holiday season are still quite grim, Betty.
NGUYEN: All right. Hey, I'll tell you this. I was up at 4 a.m. for those door buster sales. So I wanted them.
LISOVICZ: You really were? Betty Nguyen!
NGUYEN: I had to get a washer and drier. Hey, the best deals I've seen on those washers and driers.
LISOVICZ: Well, there you go, and that's exactly what other people did, too. They know -- they know their prices, and they decided that they were going to get things. But the lists are a lot shorter this year. So you're getting basics.
NGUYEN: Basic. None of the extras. Forget about it. I just needed to be able to wash some clothes around here, that's all. All right. Thank you, Susan.
LISOVICZ: You're welcome.
NGUYEN: Well, you know, they say love doesn't cost a thing, but all those 12 days of Christmas presents, that's definitely going to set you back some. According to an investment group's annual math, all of those pipers and rings and turtle doves, that's going to run you more than $86,000, up 11 percent from this time last year.
Procrastinators, though, might benefit from their late shopping ways, because the analysts actually say between now and Christmas, falling energy prices could make your true love's gifts a little bit cheaper. So sometimes, I guess it pays to wait.
In the meantime, though, calling all aliens. Come on in. Meet a scientist whose life work depends on extraterrestrials being extra- excited for human contact.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Well, there is a big step forward today in the case of an Arkansas news anchor, beaten in her home. Anne Pressley died five days after her mother found her in October.
And police made an arrest last week. And today, their case got a boost from a state crime lab. DNA testing from the crime scene matched up with the suspect, Curtis Vance.
Pressley's parents talked more about the case on "The Today Show."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUY CANNADY, ANNE PRESSLEY'S FATHER: The police are treating this as a homicide, but there are a lot of evidence, a lot of forensics that -- that indicate there was more to it than just the assault.
PATTI CANNADY, ANNE PRESSLEY'S MOTHER: This monster stole my daughter's innocence. He took her life. He took her identity. He took -- he took our lives. Our lives have radically changed as a result of what's happened to Anne.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Little Rock police won't say anything about a sexual assault on Pressley, but they do say that DNA evidence ties the suspect to a rape in April.
From the moment terrorists attacked India's financial capital of Mumbai, hundreds of tourists found themselves caught up in a nightmare. An American couple was trapped inside the Taj Mahal Hotel, and they spoke to our Ed Lavandera about their ordeal in an exclusive interview.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In an instant, Carol and Benjamin Mackoff knew they were trapped in a violent siege.
BENJAMIN MACKOFF, TAJ HOTEL SURVIVOR: As soon as the first two shots were fired.
C. MACKOFF: Ben said, "That's -- that's not fire crackers; that's gunfire."
B. MACKOFF: That's gunfire.
C. MACKOFF: And we immediately -- we didn't know where it was coming. We locked to door to our room.
LAVANDERA: Benjamin looked through the door's peephole and saw three men carrying guns, dressed in the same color jackets.
B. MACKOFF: They looked like young men, probably in their late teens, early 20s. Slim, athletic looking, talking to each other. One was talking on a cell phone after they passed by, after that. So, you know, the face of evil doesn't -- isn't necessarily evil looking. LAVANDERA: They would spend nearly 48 hours locked in their room on the third floor of the Taj Hotel, rationing cookies from the mini bar, drinking water from the bathroom faucet. Gunfire and explosions erupting just outside the door, smoke filling the hallway, and in the darkness, they heard a desperate cry for help.
C. MACKOFF: We heard an American male voice yelling, "Help, help me. Please, help. Please help me." And...
B. MACKOFF: Gunshots. And then fire.
LAVANDERA: Nearby, the Mackoffs say gunmen were opening doors and throwing grenades into rooms. Then twice, the attackers rang the doorbell to their room and simply walked away.
C. MACKOFF: For whatever reason, they did ring our doorbell twice, two different occasions. But they didn't shoot the door down, and I don't know why. I don't know why. I'm just grateful they didn't.
B. MACKOFF: That's the chair that was thrown out to break a window.
LAVANDERA: As they waited, Benjamin Mackoff snapped these photographs from their window. It shows bed sheets tied together, another captive preparing an escape from the hotel. There was even a mattress outside their window. The Mackoffs think someone was going to use it as a landing pad.
Through the entire ordeal, the Mackoffs say they never felt fearful. In fact, Benjamin read a 400-page novel.
B. MACKOFF: There wasn't much else to do, so I started a book, and finished it.
LAVANDERA: Carol Mackoff could not sleep, attached to her cell phone, text-messaging family, officials from the U.S. consulate, the Indian army, also CNN to get the latest information.
Then Thursday morning, they were told an Indian commando unit was coming to their rescue. More gunfire and explosions. Then, a knock on their door, and the commandos quietly escorted them out of the hotel.
C. MACKOFF: Everything in -- was hand motion and marched us to a service stairway, on which there was a lot of broken glass and there was a lot of blood. And as my husband recalled to you, one puddle of blood and one shoe off to the side, which is a picture we'll never forget.
LAVANDERA: The Mackoffs say it was only when they saw the destruction inside the Taj Hotel that they realized how lucky they were to escape alive.
C. MACKOFF: As we were evacuated, we realized that we had come this close to real danger. I mean, real danger or loss of life, because the rooms across the hall from us on that ocean side, separated by the atrium, they had been blasted open.
LAVANDERA: Just days after escaping, Carol and Benjamin Mackoff say this ordeal won't keep them from traveling the world.
Ed Lavandera, CNN, Chicago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Of the many stories written about the Mumbai attacks, we're going to tell you about one next hour that could be the most heartbreaking. A child hurt in the attacks, unaware of the psychological wounds that still await him.
And from a big opponent on the campaign trail to a key player in Barack Obama's administration, Hillary Clinton is now officially the president-elect's choice for secretary of state. But is it a wise move? We're going to hear what CNN contributor Carl Bernstein has to say.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: It's half past the hour and here are some stories that we are working on in the CNN NEWSROOM. As expected, President-elect Barack Obama named Senator Hillary Clinton today, as his choice for secretary of state. And he picked the current defense Secretary Robert Gates to continue as Pentagon Chief. Other selections for his National Security team; Arizona governor Janet Napolitano as head of Homeland Security and Eric Holder as Attorney General, as well as Susan Rice, as U.S. Ambassador to the U.N.
India officially informed Pakistan today that it believes so- called elements in Pakistan carried out last week's terror attacks in Mumbai. Pakistan says it hasn't seen evidence supporting India's allegation and denies any role in those attacks.
And it is official. The U.S. is in a recession. The Dow was already way down today, even before the announcement. I'm looking at right it right now, still down 400 points at this hour.
Well, just a few months ago, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were battling it out on the campaign trail. The rivalry, very fierce at times. But, now the President-elect has tapped his former Democratic opponent for one of the top jobs in his cabinet. That being Secretary of State.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: Is that same ideal that must guide America's purpose in the world today. And while we are determined to defend our freedoms and liberties at all costs, we also reach out to the world again, seeking common cause and higher ground.
And so I believe the best way to continue serving my country is to join President-elect Obama, Vice President-elect Biden, the leaders here and the dedicated public servants of the State Department on behalf of our nation and this defining moment. (END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: So, let's talk about this pick for just a moment. Joining me now from New York, CNN political analyst, Carl Bernstein. He is the author of a book, "A Woman in Charge: The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton."
Thanks for being with us today.
CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to be here.
NGUYEN: All right. Let's go right down to it. You know, this used to be rivals. But now, we're looking at possibly a team of rivals.
Is this a good fit?
BERNSTEIN: I think so. You know, we have to wait and see. But she's a very smart, logical choice to be his secretary of state. There's no one in America whose has more sheer star power around the world to carry the message of his presidency and of America rejoining the world.
MGUYEN: But are they on the same page?
BERNSTEIN: Absolutely. There's no question about that. The differences between them have never been major. There is a difference in terms of voting on the war originally. But even in the campaign, there were nuance differences between them and she would never take this job and he would not offer unless they were on the sage page.
I think we can make much too much of their differences in the post-election atmosphere. What's important here is to remember who Hillary Clinton is. She's psuey (ph) generous, one apart from everybody else in our political culture. She doesn't want to go back to the Senate really and be one of 100 senators.
NGUYEN: But are you sure? I mean, what does she stand to gain by serving as Secretary of State, instead of just going back to the Senate?
BERNSTEIN: First of all, I think it's time for us to ratchet down our own cynicism a little bit. It's not just about what she might gain. It's also about how she said, how she might serve the country.
Whatever you say about the Clintons, there's no question about their commitment to public service to this country. And she can be much more effective in the State Department, an office of huge power, huge authority, helping the president to set policy. He was very careful to say today, that the vision would be his own. And yet, she will contribute a strong voice, which is what he said he was asking for.
But your question presuppose is something that really surprised me today. And that is a statement that the Republican National Committee put out, calling into account all of the differences between Obama and Hillary Clinton, as expressed in the campaign. And I said to myself, what is this. Can you imagine if the Democrats had put out such a statement when Colin Powell was named Secretary of State by George Bush. And here was this new President-elect with a bipartisan team of national security advisors up there. And the Republican National Committee was putting out this campaign statement --
NGUYEN: But Carl, can you just simply ignore the differences and say absolutely, they're going to work hand in hand? Which indeed, that is what she has pledged to do. But, at the same time, this is the woman who wanted to be president.
Does this diminish her chances of ever becoming president?
BERNSTEIN: I think that the question of -- first of all, what diminished her chance of ever becoming president were Barack Obama winning.
And I think that it's time for those of us in the press to start looking at the page in front of us instead of 12 pages ahead. And the same for the Republican National Committee. I would imagine that they're -- you know, the Republicans are in very rough shape right now. And putting out the kind of statement they did this afternoon, the idea, the old cliche about politics stopping at the water's edge before this gentleman even gets a chance to be president of the United States, was quite extraordinary.
And I would think that people like Mitch McConnell and Republican leaders in the Senate, who know Hillary Clinton, are going to take a step back and say, wait a minute, this is not where we want to be right now. We want to wish this guy well. There will be plenty of time in the future to run against Democrats. But before he even takes the Oath of Office, this is irresponsible and not what we want to see from one of the two major political parties, especially given the periless situation in the United States in the world today in many regards and the threats of terrorism, et cetera, et cetera.
NGUYEN: All right. Carl Bernstein, CNN political analyst. Thanks for joining us today.
BERNSTEIN: Good to be with you.
NGUYEN: Well, you know, it's been a long time since the secretary of state made the big jump to the Oval Office. In fact, it hasn't happened in more than a century and a half. But, the job used to be almost a stepping stone to the White House.
The last time it happened, back in 1857, when James Buchanan became the nation's 15 president. Before him, other secretaries of state made the jump as well. Martin Van Buren, John Quincy Adams, James Monroe, James Madison and Thomas Jefferson, who was the nation's first secretary of state under George Washington.
Well, much like the AIDS disease itself, there seems to be no cure for society's prejudice against people who are HIV positive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Scanning for the stars. All alien signals. Well, our Miles O'Brien makes contact with a woman running this (INAUDIBLE) project.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: It's still one of the major killers in the world today. But President Bush says progress against the disease is being made. Speaking on World AIDS Day, Mr. Bush said his initiative on AIDS already has met its goal of treating 2 million people in sub-Saharan Africa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When PEPFAR began, only 50,000 people living with HIV and all of sub-Sahara Africa were receiving anti-retro viral treatment. Around the world, we've also supported care for more than 10 million people affected by HIV, including more than 4 million orphans and vulnerable children.
More than 237,000 babies have been born HIV free thanks to the support of the American people, with programs to prevent mothers from passing the virus on to their children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Well, despite all the publicity from World AIDS Day and decades of education about the disease, the stigma of AIDS still persists.
Our medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 24- year-old Antron-Reshaud knows a thing or two about stigma.
ANTRON-RESHAUD, HIV POSITIVE: I found out that I was HIV positive and it was around 2004. But, when my mother found out, it was just one of the reasons why she decided to put me out.
COHEN: Reshaud was diagnosed at age 20 and the discrimination began almost immediately.
RESHAUD: It just hurts so much when I hear the stories about how people are constantly kicked out of their homes or how they have to go to work and they are you know, made fun of, or they're fired from their jobs because they happen to be positive.
COHEN: It's 2008. More than 25 years into the HIV/AIDS epidemic and still, people who are infected are often unable to avoid the stigma that surrounds this disease.
FRANK OLDHAM, NAT'L. ASSN. FOR PEOPLE WITH AIDS: It's a matter of pure ignorance. It's a matter of prejudice. COHEN: Frank Oldham is president and CEO of the National Association of People With AIDS. He says that prejudice is deeply rooted in the belief that AIDS is still a gay disease and the consequences can be fatal.
OLDHAM: It acts as a barrier to people getting tested, getting their HIV test, knowing their HIV status and getting into care and treatment because they're afraid to be identified as someone living with HIV/AIDS.
COHEN: And for those who don't have the disease --
There is the fear of contagion. The simple fear of of becoming infected by HIV and not really understand or knowing ways in which the disease is transmitted.
COHEN: Last year, a 3-year-old HIV positive boy was banned from using a public swimming pool and shower in Alabama. A few weeks ago, students at a high school in St. Louis were ostracized when someone connected with their school tested positive for the disease.
A survey by the MAC AIDS Fund found more than 30 percent of Americans are uncomfortable working with someone with HIV or AIDS and that includes health care professionals.
OLDHAM: If the doctor doesn't -- claims he doesn't know how to treat them, they really don't want to treat them.
COHEN: One in five Americans with HIV doesn't even know he or she has the disease. When HIV is diagnosed late, the results can be deadly.
More than 40 percent of people who are diagnosed with HIV in the United States progress to full blown AIDS within a year of their diagnosis.
COHEN: Reshaud hopes to reduce that number by convincing others to get tested and seek the proper treatment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: And Elizabeth Cohen joins us now. You know, many of us remember the days of Ryan White.
Has any of that changed over time?
COHEN: Yes. The folks who we talked to said, back in the '80's, we remember Ryan White. He was basically kind of turned out town. A little boy who had AIDS. And they said that yes, things have gotten better. But they haven't progressed as much as they should have.
NGUYEN: And when it comes to getting tested, how do we know which of us needs to actually go out and make sure we get that done?
COHEN: Right. Well, the American College of Physicians, which is a group of internal medicine doctors, they have some guidelines about who could get HIV tested for HIV. Because, as we heard in the story, many people who have HIV don't even know they have it.
So, let us take a look at who ought to get tested for HIV. This group says that anyone ages 13 or over, should at least be offered screening. You don't want to be screened without knowing it, but you should at least be offered screening --
NGUYEN: 13, though? 13 and over?
COHEN: Sure. I mean, look we talked about that high school. Many people contract HIV when they're teenagers. And secondly, higher risk patients ought to be tested more frequently. So, we're talking about folks who are intravenous drug users, we're talking about folks who are gay. And then that screening needs to be repeated on a case by case basis because of course, you can be negative you know, one minute and you know, positive several years later. Or, you know, you can be positive the next day depending upon what you're doing.
NGUYEN: And one in five have it and don't even know it.
COHEN: They don't even know it. Right.
NGUYEN: That's a frightening number. All right. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much for that.
Hillary Clinton gets the nod as Barack Obama's choice for secretary of state. And Bill Clinton closed the deal. In our next hour in the NEWSROOM, we're going to find out how the former president helped lock his wife down to the post.
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NGUYEN: Well for many people, it's not an alien concept that there might be intelligent life beyond Earth. In fact, there's a group of scientists dedicated to searching space for alien transmissions.
CNN's Miles O'Brien makes contact.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JILL TARTER, DIRECTOR, SETI INSTITUTE: So think of these as Bombay doors. They're going to swing down.
O'BRIEN (voice-over): If E.T. should ever try to phone our home in the universe, you can bet Jill Tarter will be there to take the call.
TARTER: This is a feed, all right? And it is like the one on your car.
O'BRIEN: Or a flash Gordon ray gun. Jill is director of the search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, and I am under the hood of one of her cool, new radio telescopes.
TARTER: What are we listening for? We're listening for something that we don't think can be produced by Mother Nature. Something that looks artificial, something that's obviously engineered.
O'BRIEN: Something alien and smart. Jill has spent three decades, her entire career, on this all or nothing needle in a star stack quest to tune in to WUFO, it's a signal that may or may not exist.
TARTER: If you put a transmitter up there and there is a radar transmitter in there.
O'BRIEN: When I first met her, she was still making brief annual pilgrimages to Arecibo, Puerto Rico, to the world's largest radio telescope hoping to make contact there.
(on camera): Now this is starting to ring a bell, isn't it? Jill is the inspiration for Ellie Arroway, played by Jodie Foster in the movie "Contact." But now, the real action has moved here, to Hat Creek, California, an isolated spot 300 miles north of San Francisco. The $40 million ray is funded by private donations, $25 million came from Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen. It will allow us to keep our ears on them 24/7, 365.
TARTER: This is an exciting time. We're doing something now we couldn't do when we started. We couldn't do five years ago. We just got the capability. This technological capability a few years ago and we're now taking advantage of it.
O'BRIEN (on camera): This is the electronic intergalactic version of cupping your ear so you can hear a little better. Right now, they have 42 of these dishes. Eventually they would like to have 350 here, which would greatly increase their sensitivity and their ability to hear the heavens.
TARTER: This is how the Silicon Intelligence concentrates.
O'BRIEN (voice-over): But listening in this case means watching. They hunt for radio signals with a galactic police scanner by pointing at stars and dialing in some likely frequencies.
But those lines are what contact will look like, probably?
TARTER: That will probably be the first key that something is out there.
O'BRIEN: Just like in the movie with the "Wang, Wang" (ph). It's not going to do that, right? It's not going to do the "Wang, Wang."
TARTER: I won't say it's going to do this or it's going to do that.
O'BRIEN: Jill, always keeps a bottle of chilled bubbly handy in case her cosmic crap shoot pays off. Over the years, she's had a few spine tingling moments, when she heard a signal but from a spacecraft launched here on earth. But the stars may be in alignment, if you will, for this to happen for real before too long. NASA is working on a space telescope designed specifically to look for other earth-like planets in our galaxy.
WILLIAM BORUCKI, NASA'S KEPLER MISSION: Basically, at the end of the mission, we will know. Are there lots of earth or are there very few? If there are lots of earth, there probably is a lot of life in our galaxy waiting for us to contact them.
O'BRIEN: So, Jill Tarter may soon have some better clues on where to aim her dishes and maybe this will be the place where we finally get an answer.
TARTER: I am extremely excited about the potential of living in this first generation of human beings that can try and answer this question by doing an experiment, rather than asking the priest and the philosophers what they believed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Now, you would think that given this mission, looking for life, that NASA would be supportive of Ceddy (ph). But in 1993 actually a senator from Nevada blocked the whole Ceddy funding from NASA. It amounts to just a few million dollars a year to listen to the heavens. Only recently has NASA entertained the notion of giving a little bit of funding as part of its larger astrobiology program.
So basically, Betty, they rely on donations, from people like Paul Allen, the big ones, and from the rest of us who are interested in finding out if this big crap shoot could pay off one day.
NGUYEN: Yes. But in order for it to, you've got to know what signal to actually listen to or to look for. I mean, with all the radio waves, satellite signals, all of that out there, what is the signal that she's really looking for?
O'BRIEN: Yes, it's -- and could they have some sort of frequency we don't even -- can't even conceive of?
Of course we can't look for what you don't know. Take those off the table right away. So then the thing to do is to look for signals that would most likely sustain themselves over long distances. And then you kind of go down from there.
But basically we're looking in the band width that human beings have conceived of. The good news is the laws of physics apply here and outside the planet. And so, in theory, if an alien civilization had some sort of radio transmissions, it stands to reason they'd be using similar frequencies.
NGYUEN: Got you. All right.
So where do you point this dish? How do you know that, hey, they're over there?
O'BRIEN: Well, as much as we love our sun -- we are sun worshipers -- our sun is kind of average, kind of --
NGUYEN: Really? O'BRIEN: -- an underperformer, not a real blazing star so to speak. So when you look in the night sky and you see those stars, you don't want to be living near those. Those are the ones that are going to burn out quickly and are burning too hot.
NGUYEN: OK.
O'BRIEN: So you want to find a star that's kind of simmering like ours, kind of average size to small size and then look for planets that would be in the light distance away that could have liquid water.
Now once again, we're looking for life as we know it here. There could be other life forms that exist on methane or something --
NGYUEN: Oh, yikes.
O'BRIEN: or silicon, but we can't conceive of that, so we don't look for that. We look for stuff that we know.
NGUYEN: And do they have a definite number on how many possible planets out there with aliens on them?
O'BRIEN: Well it's interesting, they actually have a formula -- it's a big long formula -- called Drake's Equation which looks at the number of stars in the universe, the number of galaxies --
NGUYEN: So the answer is no?
O'BRIEN: And by the time you kind of factor that all down, the age of a civilization, how long before you get communication, blah, blah, blah, it goes on and on, they come up with 10,000 possible civilizations.
NGYUEN: Get out of here.
O'BRIEN: Yes, 10,000.
NGUYEN: 10,000?
O'BRIEN: So it's just that we can't reach them quickly.
NGUYEN: Yes. We haven't heard from them this long. What's up with that? There's plenty of them that come and contact us, right?
O'BRIEN: We've only had radio frequencies for 100 years or so. And it's 50,000 light years, halfway across the Milky Way.
NGUYEN: Well I guess when you do the math, I guess it does kind of make sense.
That's why we need you around, Miles.
O'BRIEN: I'm here for you.
NGUYEN: OK. Thanks. Coming up tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING" the Mars worm. Yes, meet a NASA contractor who says there's proof of life on Mars. That's on "AMERICAN MORNING," starting at 6:00 a.m. Eastern.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: The price to join team Obama? Full disclosure. Bill Clinton agrees to open up his donor list to help Hillary set up shop at the State Department.
Hiding the horrible truth. A young Mumbai survivor still wondering where his parents are five days after terrorists made him an orphan.
And --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're savages. They're savages. What they did this morning, they're savages. That's not right.
NGUYEN: Demanding bargains at any price. The fatal Wal-Mart stampede. Shoppers haul their loot past the body of a man trampled to death. Will anyone be held responsible?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
