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Blackwater Security Guards Facing Charges; Obama & the Economy; Budgeting for Holiday Shopping in Tough Financial Times
Aired December 08, 2008 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And hello again, everyone. I'm Tony Harris in the CNN NEWSROOM. And here are the headlines from CNN for Monday, December 8th.
Fallout from a shootout halfway around the world. Five former Blackwater security guards facing charges from a deadly incident in Iraq. A live news conference just minutes away.
Holiday shopping. Are you backing off? Our smart money team is talking economy, the auto bailout loan, your mortgage and jobs.
And have you ever wondered, if you were a grapefruit, would you have seeds or want to be seedless? Yes, me neither. But if you're looking to get into two prestigious universities, you've got to pick. Quirky college quiz -- in the NEWSROOM.
The fatal shooting of Iraqi civilians last year playing out on two fronts in the United States right now. In Washington, the Justice Department about to announce federal charges against five former Blackwater guards. The accused men surrendering in Salt Lake City, Utah.
We are covering both angles. Our Kara Finnstrom is at the Utah courthouse, and our Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena live with us right now from Washington.
And Kelli, let's begin with you.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Tony, that indictment was just unsealed moments ago. It's a 35 count indictment, and those guards face charges of manslaughter, attempted manslaughter, and the really questionable one, using a firearm to commit a violent crime. And that charge, Tony, carries a minimum mandatory 30-year sentence.
So, five former Blackwater guards will face those charges. A sixth guard struck a plea deal, and he is only facing those first two charges. He did plead guilty of manslaughter and attempted manslaughter, and sources say the reason for that plea deal was to avoid that lengthy 30-year sentence.
All of these charges, Tony, are being -- fall under what's called the Military Extraterritorial Act. That also very controversial. It usually applies to contractors who are working under the auspices of the U.S. military. Blackwater contractors, as you know, were working and contracted by the State Department. So we expect a full-blown battle from defense attorneys on that front, saying, wait a minute, you know, you can't charge our guys under the charges that you've chosen. You just do not have the jurisdiction.
HARRIS: Yes. Hey, Kelli, help me understand this here. Am I mistaken here? Were these men offered some sort of immunity in exchange for their testimony? Did they talk about what actually happened? These are pretty serious charges here.
ARENA: They're very serious charges, especially that third one that was actually put in place to deal with drug dealers.
Officials do say that, yes, they were offered initially limited immunity when the State Department was still investigating the shooting. Then, of course, you know, the FBI did a separate independent investigation. Defense lawyers are expected to argue very vigorously that statements that were made to officials at that time were made under that agreement, that they thought they had some type of immunity.
HARRIS: Well, what does immunity mean? And what's the line here? What's covered by it and what isn't? I don't get this here.
ARENA: And when you're talking limited, well, how limited? But, in any case, the prosecutors are expected to argue that look, we did an entirely new investigation, nothing that they said to those State Department people matters here. We're working from the information evidence that we put together.
And Tony, as you know, we've been reporting that sources tell us FBI went in, did their own investigation, and concluded that those guards were not fired upon first, that there was no evidence of that, and that those guards used excessive force, which seems to confirm what the first U.S. military personnel on the scene told investigators, that they couldn't find evidence either...
HARRIS: Yes.
ARENA: ... that those guards were fired upon first and were returning fire, which is what, of course, they claimed.
HARRIS: Well, Kelli, if you would, monitor this press conference with us.
Let's take you now to this Justice Department conference.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
PATRICK ROWAN, ASST. ATTORNEY GEN. FOR NATIONAL SECURITY: ... for national security here at the Department of Justice.
I'm joined on the stage by Jeff Taylor, the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, and Joseph Percicinni (ph) Jr., the assistant director in charge of the Washington field office of the FBI. I'm also joined by John Malis (ph) and Ken Cole (ph), the prosecutors on this case.
I'll provide some brief remarks and then turn over the podium to Jeff and Joe for further comment. Afterwards, we'll be happy to take some questions.
We're here today to announce that a 35-count indictment has been unsealed in the District of Columbia. As you are aware, an indictment is merely a formal charging document notifying a defendant of the charges against him or her. All defendants are presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty in a court of law.
The indictment unsealed charges five Blackwater security guards with voluntary manslaughter, attempt to commit manslaughter, and weapons violations for their alleged roles in the September 16, 2007 shooting at Nisour Square in Baghdad, Iraq. Specifically, the defendants are charged with killing 14 unarmed civilians and wounding 20 other individuals in connection with this event.
In addition, we can report that a sixth Blackwater security guard has pleaded guilty to charges of voluntary manslaughter and attempt to commit manslaughter for his role in the same shooting. This guilty plea also was unsealed today.
While there were dangers in Baghdad in September 2007, there were also ordinary people going about their lives, performing mundane, daily tasks like making their way through a crowded traffic circle. For the safety of these people, as well as U.S. government personnel and their own colleagues, security guards were obligated to refrain from firing their powerful weapons except when necessary for self- defense.
The documents unsealed today allege that these men disregarded that obligation and in doing so violated U.S. law. The consequences were devastating. The government alleges today that at least 34 unarmed Iraqi civilians, including women and children, were killed or injured without justification or provocation by these security guards in the shooting at Nisour Square. Today's indictment and guilty plea should serve as a reminder that those who engage in unprovoked and illegal attacks on civilians in times, whether during times of conflict or times of peace, will be held accountable.
I'd like to thank the FBI for its tremendous work investigating this crime, as well as the prosecutors from the U.S. Attorney's Office and the National Security Division for their efforts in bringing this case.
I'd also like to thank Iraqi authorities for their assistance in this matter.
I'd now like to turn it over to Jeff Taylor.
JEFFREY TAYLOR, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA: Thank you, Pat.
Good morning, everyone. As Pat mentioned, the 35-count indictment that was unsealed today charges five security guards of Blackwater Worldwide with manslaughter, attempted manslaughter, and weapons violations for their alleged roles in the tragic September 16, 2007 shooting at Nisour Square in Baghdad, Iraq. Nisour Square is located just outside a fortified area of central Baghdad known as the International Zone, more commonly as the Green Zone, where most, if not all, of the foreign embassies in Iraq are located, including the United States Embassy.
As set forth in the indictment, the five defendants were all employed by the armed forces outside the United States. Specifically, the defendants worked as independent contracts and employees of Blackwater Worldwide, a company contracted by the Department of State to provide personal security services related to supporting the Department of Defense in the republic of Iraq within the meaning of Military Extraterritorial Jurisdiction Act, or MEJA.
On September 16, 2007, the five defendants and 14 other Blackwater independent contractors were assigned to a convoy of four heavily-armed trucks known as a tactical support team using the call sign Raven 23, whose function was to provide backup fire support for other Blackwater personal security guards operating in the city of Baghdad.
On September 16, 2007, at around noon, the Raven 23 convoy was responding to the detonation of a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device that had just exploded in the vicinity of a different Blackwater personal security detail located about a mile away from Nisour Square, and which was transporting a USAID protectee.
The members of the Raven 23 convoy understood that their mission was defensive in nature. They were not permitted to engage in offensive military actions, use the military tactic known as suppressive fire, or exercise police powers. They also understood that they were only authorized to discharge their firearms in self- defense and as a last resort.
The four heavily-armed vehicles in the Raven 23 convoy entered Nisour Square and then positioned themselves in order to block any traffic from entering the circle. Seconds after the Raven 23 convoy entered the traffic circle, it is alleged that at least six members of the Raven 23 convoy, including the five defendants named in the indictment, opened fire with automatic weapons and grenade launchers on unarmed civilians located in and around Nisour Square, killing, as Pat said, at least 14 persons, wounding at least 20 other individuals, and assaulting but not injuring at least 18.
The first victim was later identified as a second year medical student named Hatham Ahmed Arubia (ph), who was driving a white Kia sedan that was approaching the traffic circle from the south. The passenger of that vehicle was also shot and killed. That victim was Dr. Al-Kazali (ph), the mother of the driver of the vehicle.
None of the victims of the shooting was armed. None of them was an insurgent. Many were shot while inside civilian vehicles that were attempting to flee from the convoy.
One victim was shot in the chest while standing in the street with his hands up. Another was injured from a grenade fired into a nearby girls' school. At least 18 civilian vehicles were damaged by gunfire from the convoy, some substantially.
The indictment does not charge or implicate Blackwater Worldwide. It charges only the actions of certain employees for their roles in the September 16th shooting.
They are Paul A. Slough, age 29, of Keller, Texas; Dustin L. Heard, 27, Maryville, Tennessee; Evan S. Liberty, 26, Rochester, New Hampshire; Nicholas A. Slatten, 23, of Sparta, Tennessee; and Donald W. Ball, 26, of West Valley City, Utah.
All five defendants are each charged with 14 counts of voluntary manslaughter, 20 counts of attempt to commit manslaughter, and one count of using and discharging a firearm and destructive devices during and in relation to a crime of violence. The firearms included an SR-25 sniper rifle, an M-4 assault rifle, and M-240 machine guns. The destructive devices were M-203 grenade launchers and grenades. If convicted of the charges in the indictment, the defendants could face up to 10 years in prison on each manslaughter count, seven years in prison on each attempted manslaughter count, and a mandatory minimum sentence of 30 years on the firearm charge.
We remind the public that an indictment is merely a formal charging document notifying a defendant of the charges against him. All defendants are presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty in a court of law. It is our understanding that earlier today, the defendants surrendered in Utah and will have a court appearance in U.S. district court later today.
Today, we also announced the unsealing of a guilty plea by a sixth defendant, Jeremy P. Ridgeway, age 35, from California, who entered a guilty plea on December 5, 2008 here in Washington, D.C., before Judge Ricardo Erbina (ph). He pleaded to superseding information charging him with one count to voluntary manslaughter and one count of attempt to commit manslaughter.
Like the five defendants charged in the indictment, Mr. Ridgeway was an independent contractor and employee of Blackwater Worldwide. He pleaded guilty to charges in connection with his role in the September 16th shooting at Nisour Square. His sentencing date has not yet been set by the court.
This indictment represents the first prosecution under MEJA to be filed against non-Defense Department private contractors which was not possible prior to 2004 amendments that specifically expanded the reach of MEJA to non-Defense Department contractors who provide services "in support of the mission of the Department of Defense overseas."
We take no pleasure in charging individuals whose job it was to protect the men and women of our country, but when individuals are alleged to have violated the law while carrying out those duties, we are to duty-bound to hold them accountable, as no one is above the law even while our country is engaged in war. This indictment is the first step in that process, and it's the virtue of our system that these individuals will have their day in court.
If bears emphasis that today's indictment is very narrow in its allegations. Six individual Blackwater guards have been charged with unjustified shootings on September 16, 2007, not the entire Blackwater organization in Baghdad. There were 19 Blackwater guards on the Raven 23 team that day at Nisour Square. Most acted professionally, responsibly, and honorably. Indeed, this indictment should not be read as an accusation against any of those brave men and women who risked their lives as Blackwater security contractors.
Before turning the podium over to FBI Assistant Director in Charge Joseph Percicinni, I, too, would like to commend the FBI agents who investigated the case, the prosecutors from my office, and those from the National Security Division for all their hard work on this investigation. They labored for a long time under very difficult circumstances. Today is the result of that labor.
HARRIS: The fatal shooting of Iraqi civilians last year. Now, as you just heard, a 35-count indictment against five security guards working for Blackwater Worldwide. A sixth former Blackwater guard has pleaded guilty to a list of charges. These are pictures of the men when they were in the military.
Our Kara Finnstrom is in Salt Lake City, Utah, where the five men turned themselves in this morning. CNN Executive Producer Suzanne Simons is with me here in Atlanta. And our Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena is in Washington.
And Kelli, let me start with you.
Each of these defendants charged with 14 counts of voluntary manslaughter.
ARENA: That's right.
HARRIS: Twenty counts of -- just a whole host of charges. And when you hear the narrative of what happened on that day, it is just so chilling.
ARENA: Very. You know, he said none of the victims were armed. Many were in their cars, according to the U.S. attorney here in the district, trying to get away. He said one person was even shot standing in the street with his arms up, you know, trying not to get himself shot.
You know, there's some confusion, Tony. We have things going on in two places, both Washington, D.C., and Utah.
This case has already been assigned to a judge here in the district. This is where those men were indicted, but, you know -- and we'll hear more on that later -- defense attorneys do want it moved over to Utah, where legal experts say they may find a more conservative jury, one that's likely to be sympathetic even after hearing the government lay out what it laid out today. Beyond these charges, there is a hearing that's scheduled for this afternoon on whether to release the guards. Defense attorneys also challenging the Justice Department's authority to prosecute this case. As you know, Tony, the law is very murky on whether contractors can be charged in U.S. courts for crimes that they commit overseas.
You know, we did have an opportunity to talk to some of the defense attorneys. They're accusing the Justice Department of just bowing to Iraqi pressure. They say this case is politically motivated, and they say, look, our clients did not commit any crimes. They still contend to this day that they were returning fire.
HARRIS: Well, what's interesting about that last point from the defense attorneys is you have Nuri al-Maliki, who has gone on the record forcefully, calling what happened last September a killing, and demanding that Blackwater be expelled from the country.
ARENA: That's right.
HARRIS: And my understanding is it took a lot of work from the State Department to mend the fences to the extent that they were amended to allow Blackwater to stay in place in Iraq.
ARENA: The contract was renewed earlier this year.
HARRIS: That's right.
ARENA: And as you heard from the U.S. attorney, Blackwater, the company, will not be facing any charges.
HARRIS: That's right.
ARENA: These are very personal charges against those six men -- the one, of course, reaching a plea deal.
HARRIS: OK. Kelli Arena, our Justice Correspondent.
Kelli, appreciate it. Thank you.
Let's get to Salt Lake City, Utah.
A pretty dramatic scene this morning, Kara, when those five young men turned themselves in.
KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, all under the age of 30.
You know, Tony, just a few minutes before Kelli Arena reported that those indictments were being unsealed, one of the defense attorneys, Brent Hatch (ph), stepped out of the courthouse, and had no word yet of what was contained in those indictments. But he did say to us at that point that he didn't understand why the government was bringing this suit against these five men, that they were doing simply what they were hired to do.
Now, a little earlier this morning, these men and their attorneys filed two by two down the street and into the courthouse, where they turned themselves in. In a couple of hours from now, those court proceedings are expected to take place.
We tried to talk to with those men as they came down the street. They've been instructed by their defense attorneys not to speak with the media, but we did talk with a couple of the defense attorneys. A few of them told us they are pleading not guilty. And here's what one of them had to say about what will be discussed during the court proceedings today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FINNSTROM: Can you tell us a little bit about what your arguments will be today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we won't go into that right now, but you'll hear in court later today.
FINNSTROM: Can we hear anything from your client today, any kind of reaction?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, nothing from my client. Thank you very much. He's innocent and we'll prove his innocence in court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FINNSTROM: A little bit more on these five men, Tony. The defense attorneys did tell us that they all are under the age of 30. They're all in their 20s.
They all have military experience, either in the Marines or in the Army. And they also tell us that they have all received numerous awards and commendations for their service in the military. One of these men was even recognized for his service in protecting Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. So, as defense attorneys put it, these were all men who had served with distinction during their time in the military.
HARRIS: CNN's Kara Finnstrom for us in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Kara, appreciate it. Good to see you. Thank you.
Suzanne Simons joins me now here in Atlanta.
And Suzanne, I know you've been doing a lot of work on the whole -- the entire Blackwater story.
SUZANNE SIMONS, CNN EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: Right.
HARRIS: But if you would, talk to us about some of the broader ramifications of this case moving forward and Blackwater's operations in Iraq moving forward.
SIMONS: Next year is going to be a very big year. One thing that a lot of people have paid attention to just in the past few weeks is the negotiation of something called the Status of Forces Agreement, Tony.
HARRIS: That's right.
SIMONS: The Status of Forces Agreement kind of resets the rules, if you will, starting January 1st for these contractors working in Iraq. Now, think about this for a second. There are 200,000 contractors working in Iraq. There are only 146,000 troops.
HARRIS: That's right. That's right.
SIMONS: So as Obama takes office, his administration is going to have to deal with contractors who are now going to be held accountable under Iraqi law. So imagine something like this happening now and watching these six young people go to the Iraqi court system.
HARRIS: Yes. It just reminds us of what it is Blackwater and these other security firms are actually doing, what their responsibilities are in Iraq.
SIMONS: Well, the bulk of the contractors working in Iraq really do things like protect convoys as they move through the country. A lot of the personal security contractors like Blackwater, who work for the State Department, help support State Department missions when they're going out on reconstruction efforts. So, if you have a school that needs to be built, a building that needs to be secured, Blackwater is the way for the State Department to move around.
Now, after the Nisour Square shooting, you heard a lot of calls, as you mentioned before, for the company to be kicked out. However, Ambassador Kennedy, over at the State Department, told me, "Suzanne, there's just no way that we could do our job in Iraq without them."
HARRIS: Suzanne, thank you for that perspective. Appreciate it. Thank you.
And still to come, turning to your money in just a moment, your security, your life. Of course, it is issue #1.
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Facing a financial crisis this Christmas? A new CNN/Opinion Research poll finds 40 percent of you say economic conditions are making Christmas more stressful this year. Fifty-six percent not feeling the stress. Four percent of those polled say they don't celebrate Christmas.
The markets, way up. Way up. Well, we're off session highs, but this is a good sign. Building on the rally from Friday, about three hours into the trading day, and as you can see, the Dow up 265 points.
Are you seeing people smiling when they do this? You should be. You know, the average for a gallon of regular, man, just about $1.71. We're heading in the right direction.
At the end of last week, it was four cents higher. And one month ago, $2.28. Yes, gas is down, but so are many Americans. The recession really taking its toll. Barack Obama warning we can't fix the economic troubles with a Band-Aid. We need major long-term surgery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Fortunately, as tough as times are now -- and things are going to get worse before they get better -- there is a convergence between circumstances and agenda. The key for us is making sure that we jump-start that economy in a way that doesn't just deal with the short term, doesn't just create jobs immediately, but also puts us on a glide path for long-term, sustainable economic growth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: The president-elect says his economic recovery plan is equal to the task. He is proposing the largest public works program in half a century.
CNN's Elaine Quijano joining us from Chicago now.
And Elaine, has the president-elect put a specific dollar figure on this stimulus plan as of yet?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He has not, Tony. And you know what? That remains very much an open question -- exactly how big is this economic stimulus plan going to be?
Analysts say, look, it's going to be somewhere, going to have to be somewhere in the order of hundreds of billions of dollars in order to work. But the president-elect himself has not said specifically, put any kind of dollar amount on that recovery plan.
What he has done though, he shed a little bit more light on how he plans to create some 2.5 million new jobs. Over the weekend in his radio address, Mr. Obama said he plans to launch the largest public works project since the creation of the federal highway system back in the 1950s. He also said that plan would include doing things like modernizing schools and upgrading federal buildings to make them more energy-efficient. He said doing so would not only save taxpayer dollars, Tony, but he believes would, of course, help put people back to work -- Tony.
HARRIS: Yes. And Elaine, over the weekend we heard Senator Dodd call for the head of GM, Rick Wagoner, to step aside. Does the president-elect share that view?
QUIJANO: Well, you know, it's interesting, because over the weekend, the president-elect was asked that very question at a news conference and he didn't answer it. He instead broadened out his answer to say, look, there are big changes that need to be made at the Detroit big three automakers, and that if top managers don't understand that urgency or if they are unwilling to make some of these difficult business decisions, then they do need to go. But as for Rick Wagoner, the man you are seeing there, the head of General Motors, and weighing in on whether or not he needs to go, the president-elect declined to answer specifically -- Tony.
HARRIS: Yes, Rick Wagoner on the left of the screen there.
Elaine Quijano for us.
Elaine, good to see you. Thank you.
Autoworkers taking a road trip to Washington. They say they're lobbying to save their jobs, their communities, and their industry.
Workers from the big three auto companies and retirees took part in this caravan from several Midwest states to Washington. Organizers say Congress needs a comprehensive industrial plan that expands and supports the middle class. They say the crisis facing the big three automakers provides an opportunity to transform the industry.
You know, there are so many economic issues out there to wrap our arms around right now -- job losses, holiday shopping, stress. We've gathered some really smart people to give you some thoughts on how to get through these tough times.
That's coming up next in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Just how safe are we from cyber terrorism? This hour, a group researching that question says we're not nearly as safe as we should be. Live now to CNN Homeland Security correspondent Jeanne Meserve in Washington.
Jeanne, good to see you. What's the problem and what's the cost on effects (ph)?
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, a bipartisan panel took a look at this and is coming out with its recommendations today, saying that cyber security is a national security issue on a par with weapons of mass direction and global jihad. That it threatens the country's economic and military position in the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL, (R) TEXAS: If I could just give an illustration as to how important this is. Imagine if agents of a foreign power were caught stealing files, paper files out of the Pentagon, the amount of outrage that would engender across this country. It would be on the front page of all the newspapers. And yet that is exactly what is occurring today in the virtual world as I speak. This information is being stolen and being downloaded out of the federal government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MESERVE: The panel says the U.S. is losing the war in cyber space and to get the upper hand it must develop a comprehensive strategy which uses all the tools of U.S. power -- diplomacy, military planning, economic policy, intelligence and law enforcement. The strategy needs to be managed, the report says, by a cyber czar who reports directly to the president and coordinates cyber security across the federal government.
Right now, the Department of Homeland Security has the lead, but this report says that DHS has too narrow a scope. Cyber security, it says, is an international security matter that does more real damage every day to the economic health and national security of the United States than any other threat. And they will be presenting these recommendations to President-elect Obama.
HARRIS: And, Jeanne, is regulation part of the fix here? I'm wondering if the report is calling for regulation.
MESERVE: It is calling for some in the area where critical infrastructure is in the hands of private industry. It says that at the moment voluntary requests to improve cyber security really have not been effective. Saying the government should set standards. And then it should be up to the industry to determine exactly how to reach those standards. But, yes.
HARRIS: Yes. And, Jeanne, you know, Washington is paved with reports that have gone nowhere. Will this one do the same? Will it just sort of gather dust?
MESERVE: Well, they're hoping it doesn't, for one thing. It's a very high-powered panel with a lot of real leading thinkers on cyber secretary on it. One of them happens to be President-elect Obama's key person on cyber security. So we know that the message on this is getting through to the president-elect. So they're very hopeful that there will actually be action taken here.
HARRIS: It would be nice. It would be nice.
CNN's Jeanne Meserve for us. Jeanne, appreciate it. Thank you.
MESERVE: You bet.
HARRIS: Let's get a check of weather now. Jacqui Jeras standing by, making her way over to that multi media board with the maps.
And, hey, Jacqui, good to see you.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HARRIS: You know, there are so many economic issues out there to wrap your brain around, your arms around. Job losses, holiday shopping, stress. We've gathered some smart people to give us a reality check on these issues, coming up next in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Well, the ailing economy, mortgage foreclosures reaching record levels, a brutal November unemployment report and the Big Three auto companies struggling to survive. Lots to discuss with our Money team. Joining us now Jeanne Sahadi, senior writer at CNNMoney.com. Jeanne, good to see you.
JEANNE SAHADI, SENIOR WRITER, CNNMONEY.COM: Good to see you too, Tony.
HARRIS: And Eamon Javers, financial correspondent for Politico.
Eamon, good to see you.
EAMON JAVERS, FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Hey, Tony.
HARRIS: Let's start with the auto industry and, Eamon, let me start with you.
JAVERS: Sure.
HARRIS: Congress making progress, it seems, towards some kind of a bridge bailout loan.
JAVERS: Right.
HARRIS: After watching the hearings last week and the set of hearings that came before that, are you absolutely convinced, because many in America aren't, that this bailout bridge loan has to happen?
JAVERS: I'm absolutely convinced that this bridge loan will happen. I mean Senator Richard Shelby, a Republican on the Banking Committee, calls it -- he mocks this proposal, calling it a bridge loan to nowhere. But I think the political momentum in Washington is really behind this thing at this point really because of the appalling job loss numbers we saw at the end of the week last week.
Lawmakers really have concluded that they have to get behind this deal. They're going to give $15 billion. It's shy of the $34 billion that the automakers really wanted here. But I think political momentum says this deal is going to get done and it's going to get done very soon. We might see text of a bill as early as later tonight.
HARRIS: Hey, Jeanne, the dismal November jobs numbers, does that make this bailout loan deal a done deal?
SAHADI: Well, that's what lawmakers were saying last week. Nancy Pelosi, in fact, said it changed everything on Friday for her. She has agreed to actually take funding from another source. She had really wanted it originally to come from the TARP money that the Treasury controls. So they're really concerned about the increase in unemployment because basically what's going to happen, if the automakers fall, there's concern that the IRS and state governments will lose so much tax revenue at the same time that the unemployment rolls and Medicaid rolls are shooting up. So state governments and federal government expenses are going to go way high as their tax revenues are come down.
HARRIS: Yes, got you. So, Eamon, I don't get this. So the Big Three were asking for $34 billion. They're going to get $10 billion to $15 billion that's supposed to bridge them to March.
JAVERS: Right.
HARRIS: Is that going to be enough or will we still be talking about one of the Big Three collapsing in some way, shape or form by the end of the year?
JAVERS: Well, here's the thing. There's really no guarantee here that this will be enough.
HARRIS: Yes.
JAVERS: I mean, even if they had gotten the $34 billion they were asking for, at the rate they're burning money, that really would have only carried them through about two quarters going forward, assuming that nothing changes in either the economy or their business plans. $15 billion, obviously, takes them a few months less far into the future. So it doesn't give them all that much time.
And they have to do fairly dramatic things in terms of cutting off some of these brands that they've got. Limiting the number of workers they've got. Restructuring these union contracts that they're saddled with. They've got a lot of problems to fix, a very short window of opportunity to fix them. And the $15 billion gives them even less time to fix these problems. So my guess would be that we could very easily see these automakers coming back to Congress saying, hey, look, we're going to need a little bit more money. We're going to need another bridge here, in several months.
HARRIS: And, Jeanne, pick up on that point. Have you heard anything over the last set of hearings here that suggest to you that what the Big Three automakers have put forward is a forward looking, substantial business plan?
SAHADI: Well, I hear that lawmakers are working on that plan, because I think what's going to happen is the government's going to present a plan to the automakers based on both what they received from the automakers and what they have to keep in mind to protect taxpayers and to get President Bush's signature, and that is to be long term viable and with consequences if they don't sort of stick to the script, as economist Mark Zandi said.
HARRIS: Yes.
SAHADI: And I should also say, last week, he was testifying on The Hill and he thinks that in order for there to be a complete turnaround for the automakers, they may need between $75 billion and $125 billion long term. Not all at once. The idea of the $15 billion is to kind of get them through the next few months until the Obama administration comes in and comes up with a longer term plan.
HARRIS: You know what, I have totally mismanaged this clock here. I don't have time for this next -- this is insane here. Your windows are about to close in about 30 seconds.
Eamon, will you come on back and talk to us again maybe tomorrow, Wednesday or something?
JAVERS: Absolutely. Sure.
HARRIS: Jeanne, I can get you any time, right?
SAHADI: Any time.
HARRIS: All right. I love to hear that. All right, thank you both so much.
And still to come in the NEWSROOM, saving energy, saving money. One part of the big apple actually turning green. We'll tell you all about it.
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HARRIS: Another quick check of the markets right now. Good day. Good day working here. We're in positive territory, as you can see, big time, building on the rally from Friday, which was a little strange given the jobs report. Such a dismal jobs report. And then the markets just shot through the roof. And the rally continues today. We are up positive 271 points. Off of sessions highs. But, still, a good day working so far for the markets.
The great white way is going green. New York City's theater district is looking to ease the load on Manhattan's electrical grid. CNNMoney.com's Poppy Harlow has our "Energy Fix" from New York.
Hi, Poppy.
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Hey there, Tony.
Yes. And New York's mayor, Michael Bloomberg, he's been really vocal about the goals for this city. One is a 30 percent reduction in greenhouse gases by the year 2030. Broadway's stepping in, joining the effort. Ten theaters have replaced some 10,000 light bulbs with more energy efficient ones.
The rest of Broadway's theaters say they'll make the switch in the next year. They're also pledging to use eco-friendly materials to build their props and their sets. Bloomberg says it's New York's focus on landmarks that is unique. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: In our case, only 20 percent of the carbon footprint comes from transportation. And 80 percent comes from buildings. If we can go and make all our buildings pollute less and use less energy, we really do have a chance to leave our children and grandchildren a better world.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: Interesting. Very similar to what Barack Obama was talking about over the weekend. But here in New York City, not everything is going according to Bloomberg's plan. A federal judge recently blocked a move to require most New York City taxis to be hybrids by the year 2012, saying only the federal government can set fuel efficiency standards.
Now New York is trying a different tactic. They're offering financial incentives to the owners of taxi fleets. The owners then charge the drivers $3 per shift to use a hybrid. That generates up to $2,000 a year in added revenue per taxi. The drivers with the hybrids, meantime, are expected to save about $5,000 a year on their gas costs.
But, Tony, the big problem, falling gas prices. Gas fell for an 82nd straight day today. The more gas falls, the less they save. You see the problem. But again, New York City going green in a major way -- Tony.
HARRIS: It's supposed to be an investment in the future, I suppose.
HARLOW: In the future.
HARRIS: All right, Poppy, thank you.
You may have noticed something different on the bottom of your screen this morning. The CNN logo has turned green. That's because the second installment of CNN's award winning series "Planet in Peril" debuts this Thursday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time.
Holiday cutbacks. According to the latest CNN/Opinion Research poll, most of you will be buying and giving fewer gifts this year because of the recession. Look at the numbers. Sixty-seven percent of Americans say they're spending less on holiday gifts. That's more than the cutbacks, as you can see here, in other categories, like leisure activities, driving or buying clothes.
A new survey out shows more than half of adults in the U.S. play video games. The study by the Pew Internet and American Life Project finds that one in five adults plays every day. A quarter of those 65 and older said they play. Wow.
And 80 percent of adults between 18 and 29 play. Veronica De La Cruz has been watching the web this morning.
VERONICA DE LA CRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Everybody plays.
HARRIS: I guess so.
DE LA CRUZ: Everybody plays video games.
HARRIS: I've got to get -- jump into the game here.
DE LA CRUZ: You do.
HARRIS: Man.
DE LA CRUZ: I was going to say, but you do play, right?
HARRIS: No, I don't play at all. I started playing for a whole and then my son, who is all thumbs and forefingers here, starts killing me and I'm just a bad sport, so I quit.
DE LA CRUZ: All right. Well, you've got to get in the game. And listen to this.
HARRIS: OK.
DE LA CRUZ: We're going to start with the popular tech blog is Moda (ph). They're saying that if you want your Nintendo Wii this Christmas, Tony, pay attention, you've got to get it now. Wal-Mart is offering tens of thousands of the game consoles starting today. You can log on to their Web site. Pick one up for under $300.
And, you know, this is a hot item, Tony. The Wii's been so popular. It was the most searched for item on Yahoo!'s shopping site this Black Friday. It was also one of the more popular items on eBay.
OK. More news from Wal-Mart. The store will become the second retail chain after Best Buy to sell the Apple iPhone. Bloomberg is reporting Wal-Mart will sell the iPhone sometimes this December. And there's speculation that they may sell the $99 discontinued 4 gig version.
Now I put in a couple calls to local stores. Employees their said that they believe that they're going to get those phones close to the end of the month. So the Wii and the iPhone, there you go, both at Wal-Mart.
HARRIS: Like it. Like it.
DE LA CRUZ: OK, Tony, you know how they say misery loves company?
HARRIS: Loves company, yes.
DE LA CRUZ: Well, OK, that's not it at all. Misery loves happiness. A new study out shows that happiness is contagious in social networks. The report, which was published in the British medical journal, shows that happiness spreads more reliably than unhappiness. In fact, your chances of being happy increase by 15 percent if your direct connection is happy. The study also looks at the Facebook phenomenon, which has about 120 million friends worldwide. And researchers find that people who smile in their profile pictures are actually more likely to be friends with other smilers.
HARRIS: Now I feel like I need to smile.
DE LA CRUZ: Did you get that.
HARRIS: Go against -- let me flown a little bit. DE LA CRUZ: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No. See, I'm happy . . .
HARRIS: Yes.
DE LA CRUZ: You're happy.
HARRIS: Yes.
DE LA CRUZ: I'm smiling and you're smiling.
HARRIS: All right, then.
DE LA CRUZ: How's that. All right. So if you have a tech story, send it our way. You can log on to Facebook. Search for Veronica De La Cruz and Tony Harris in the CNN NEWSROOM. We're both smiling in that photo, by the way.
HARRIS: How many friends are we up to now?
DE LA CRUZ: Oh, like 1 million.
HARRIS: Oh, get out of here.
DE LA CRUZ: At least. Oh, yes.
HARRIS: I love it. Yes, that's good.
DE LA CRUZ: And on Twitter, too, Veronicadlcruz.
HARRIS: All right. Thanks, Veronica.
DE LA CRUZ: Good to see you, Tony.
HARRIS: Got to get thumbs and forefingers going. My daughter's killing me now with these.
All right. Thanks, Veronica.
Prestigious universities making sure they don't get regular joes as students. What are we saying here? You have to hear some of these odd admission questions.
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HARRIS: Those were the days.
Kyra, those were the days, huh?
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Back when he was still black, Tony.
HARRIS: Oh, no you . . .
PHILLIPS: I didn't go there. I didn't go there.
HARRIS: Yes, you . . . PHILLIPS: I don't go there. He was so great then.
HARRIS: He was -- yes. Yes.
PHILLIPS: He was himself and working it in front of all the brothers, you know, behind him. He was amazing.
HARRIS: In his African-American nose and his African-American -- oh, man . . .
PHILLIPS: He was culturally correct.
HARRIS: Oh, you know, not everyone is smart enough to get into Oxford and Cambridge. Well, before anyone's accepted, they have to answer some pretty tough and pretty strange questions.
CNN's Atika Shubert takes a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Always dreamed of going to Britain's prestigious Oxford or Cambridge Universities? Well, then try answering these brain teasers that we took to the street.
Would you rather be a novel or a poem?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A poem.
SHUBERT: How many monkeys would you use in an experiment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seven.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two, I would say.
SHUBERT: Do you think you're clever?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can be.
SHUBERT: Should we have laws for the use of light bulbs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SHUBERT: If I were a grapefruit, would I rather be seedless or non seedless?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With seeds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seedless.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The use of light bulbs?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's my birthday today and I can't think.
SHUBERT: All strange, but actual questions asked at admission interviews to Oxbridge, as the two universities are collectively known. But what's the logic behind the questions?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's however (ph) much that they're trying to profile you to see which side of your brain works quickest, the left or your right side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, are they on drugs these people in Cambridge? I don't know. Maybe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because obviously if they just asked some academic questions, then everyone could just be a robot.
SHUBERT: University admissions say that last answer is exactly right.
MIKE NICHOLSON, UNIVERSITY OF OXFORD: What we're trying to do is move students out of their comfort zone. Many students will have a body of knowledge and they may be expected to be tested on that interview. We want to try and take them beyond that point and get them to actually start thinking for themselves.
SHUBERT: Questions that stretch your thinking. But not everyone is so adept at answering.
More than 90 percent of the students here in the U.K. are educated at state schools. But here at Oxford University, only 53 percent come from state-funded schools. Now critics say those numbers show that wealthier students that come from private schools have an unfair advantage.
Tutoring company Oxbridge Applications, founded by Oxford graduates, says more than 60 percent of its clients are state funded students. It costs $300 for a day of mock interviews or $1,500 for a full weekend course. But it's cheaper than a private school and Oxbridge says 47 percent of their clients get in to one of the elite colleges.
JAMES UFFINDELL, CEO, OXBRIDGE APPLICATIONS: At Oxbridge Applications we have a network of 500 former tutors and former admissions tutors as well. And we take the people who have been there and done it and help supply that information back to the people who want to go there.
SHUBERT: Maybe they should have asked this question.
How could you organize a successful revolution?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By making me the president of the United States.
SHUBERT: Some questions, it seems, are easier to answer than others.
Atika Shubert, CNN, Oxford.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Kyra Phillips, on fire, ready to go.
CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with K.P., Kyra Phillips. Take it away.
