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Greece Riots; Auto Deal Taking Shape; F-18 Crashes into Residential Area Near San Diego
Aired December 08, 2008 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Here is what is happening right now: a worker revolt in Illinois.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's no money. It's nothing. I lose everything right now.
SANCHEZ: Owners want to shut down the plant. But workers won't budge.
Look at this: an entire fleet of U.S.-allied vehicles wiped out in Pakistan in a sneak attack.
A scene you have to see to understand: rioting in Greece going into its third day.
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: They should go.
SANCHEZ: President-elect Obama goes after the CEOs for how they ran GM, Ford, and Chrysler.
And speaking of CEOs, Merrill Lynch's boss wants his $10 million bonus, even though his company lost $12 billion. Is he right?
What you say on Twitter, on the Net, on the air. Lunchtime in L.A., 3:00 p.m. in New York, your national conversation begins now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez here at the World Headquarters of CNN.
I want you to stay with us here because there's a possibility that, within moments or within this hour, we could get an announcement. This is essentially a consortium of the outgoing administration, the incoming administration, and Congress coming up with a $15 billion deal, or at least that's the number that CNN has confirmed so far, that will be given to the auto industry in the form of a loan.
Before that happens, though, something that may be occurring all over the country: This is a worker revolt, if you will. This is going on outside Chicago. It's in Illinois. It's at Republic Windows and Doors. Have you seen this video? These are workers who are saying: Enough is enough. We're not going to let you close down this company, not without giving us the money that we are due.
Here is what we have done. We have taken some of the reports that have been filed over the last 48 hours out of Illinois in the Chicago area. We have put them together, so you can get a sense of what's been going on. Here they are now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAE MILLER, CLTV REPORTER (voice-over): In the freezing cold, hundreds of workers, their families, and even strangers outraged over the raw deal they say employees of Republic Windows and Doors were given, stood on the steps of the plant in solidarity calling for justice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do we want?
CROWD: Justice.
MILLER: When do we want it?
CROWD: Now.
MILLER: Workers were told Tuesday that the plant was closing its doors Friday because the company's lender, Bank of America, had canceled the company's line of credit. Then they were told that the bank would not release funds for severance or vacation pay. And the kicker? Their medical benefits had already expired.
VINCENTE RANGEL, LAID-OFF WORKER: The company told us this morning, we had no insurance since yesterday. So, I was going to take my kid to take his shots tomorrow. Can't do it, because I have got no insurance.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Reverend Jesse Jackson arrived at Republic Windows and Doors on the North Side, bringing food for the workers and their families camped out at company headquarters since Friday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: These workers are not leaving their jobs until they're paid for their work. And Jackson says this could be the spark to ignite mass worker demonstrations throughout the country.
REVEREND JESSE JACKSON, FOUNDER, RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION: These workers are to this struggle perhaps what Rosa Parks was to social justice 50 years ago. And just maybe workers must begin to show resistance in plants all around the nation.
OBAMA: When it comes to the situation here in Chicago with the workers who are asking for the benefits and payments that they have earned, I think they're absolutely right. And understand that what's happening to them is reflective of what's happening across this economy.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SANCHEZ: There's something else I want to show you. What these workers are trying to do is say, we don't want the company to come in here and essentially start selling off some of the material that's here, the supplies, the manufacturing equipment, et cetera, et cetera.
So, that's why they're there. This live picture that you're looking at represents many of the workers. And now they're being joined by other union workers from around the Illinois area. They're saying, we're not leaving, not until we know that we're going to be paid or we can work out some kind of deal that can keep this company operating.
In fact, they have now been joined by the governor of the state of Illinois. Rod Blagojevich held a news conference today. You will be surprised with what he had to say, specifically about Bank of America. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: We have contacted all of our agencies across state company. And as of now, every agency has been ordered to suspend doing any business with the Bank of America. The Bank of America received $25 billion in taxpayer money as part of the financial bailout.
This is exactly and precisely the kind of thing that isn't right when, on the one hand, powerful special interests get the help of taxpayer money to bail them out, the banks, and yet the purpose of that money was supposed to be to provide a line of credit to businesses like this to keep workers working and keep people employed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So, the argument that the governor is making is, look, if we, the taxpayers, are going to provide a bailout for companies like Bank of America, then the least they can do is use those funds on American workers and companies like Republic Windows and Doors.
Here's the catch. And here's what Bank of America has to say. I think we can put that up on the screen. We have gotten a response from them.
They say, look, "Neither Bank of America, nor any other third- party lender to the company has the right to control whether the company complies with applicable laws or honors its commitments to its employees."
So, essentially Bank of America is saying, look, we have got nothing to do with this fight between these two.
Let's pick up the conversation by talking to one of those folks who's really angry about this. She's one of those who is representing the union out there in Chicago.
Leah Fried is with a union that represents these workers.
Is there a resolution here, and, if so, what?
LEAH FRIED, UNITED ELECTRICAL WORKERS: Well, I think there absolutely is a resolution here.
The workers are demanding that they're paid what they're owed under law. It's very simple. But I think this has become a larger question. It's a question of, how can we save jobs? How can we make sure that, if we're going to give thousands of dollars to financial institutions like Bank of America, how can we ensure that they actually do what's necessary to keep employment in Chicago and around the country and not just keep the money for themselves, which is what happened here.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You're blaming Bank of America for not giving enough funds to the company or the folks who owned this company, so that they can keep it rolling, moving, right?
FRIED: Yes.
Well, here's what we have been told. The company told us very clearly they are shutting down, shutting their doors because Bank of America refused to continue their credit and their financing. They also told us very clearly that Bank of America did not authorize any expenditures towards people's vacation pay or any money they would be owed under the Warren Act.
Now, that can't be clearer to me that Bank of America is calling the shots. What's more, all of the assets inside of the factory essentially belong to Bank of America. So, we're saying you have got a choice here, Bank of America. You can either liquidate those assets and take the money for yourselves, or let's talk about doing the right thing and finding better management for this company, keeping it open, saving 300 jobs, or at the very least allowing Republic to fulfill its obligation to pay its workers what they're owed under law, and not keep that money for yourself.
SANCHEZ: It's interesting because we have got the company saying three days and you're out of here and then you have got employees saying, no, no, federal law says that you have to give us 60 days' warning.
What's interesting about this is -- and I'm wondering as I let you go if you have heard anything about this -- is the company going in and say, look, you have got to get out of there? Or can they call the authorities and say, that's our property and we want those workers to leave?
FRIED: Well, that is a risk.
But frankly I will tell you this. The workers aren't going to go quietly. They're really angry and they feel like the assets of that company are their vacation pay. That's their severance pay owed to them under the Warren Act. So, you know, it's going to be...
SANCHEZ: I got it.
FRIED: Yes.
The point of this is that the workers said they're not going anywhere until they win justice. And we're here supporting them 100 percent.
SANCHEZ: I will tell you, it's one heck of a situation. People all over the country are now following this.
And we have just been told that Governor Blagojevich is going to be joining us here. I don't know how soon he can make it. Probably within the next 20 minutes to a half-hour, we're going to be speaking to the governor and asking him if he's kind of working with those folks there at the capital to see if there's some kind of resolution they can come up with prior to this.
Leah, thanks so much for joining us. We certainly appreciate it.
When we come back, more contractors in Iraq than troops. Think about that. It's a controversial part of this war. Five have now been indicted as contractors for allegedly killing innocent victims, women and children. That's our story, a special report when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. Two developing stories that we're following for you.
This is the situation in Chicago that we're looking at right now. As you can see, union workers are coming to the defensive. The workers there at Republic Windows and Doors, essentially making the argument that these workers should be compensated at least for 60 days is what the federal government's laws say.
And they're also trying to hold out hope that somehow they can save this company and now they're also going after Bank of America. We're going to be joined in just a little while by the governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich. He's going to be taking us through this situation. He says Illinois is no longer going to be doing business with Bank of America as a result of this particular story.
By the way, Johnny, let's go ahead and get some reaction on Twitter on this, because we have got a lot of it coming in.
Take a look at this. "Obama had the support of the working- class, so it's right for him to back those that are on strike."
That's because of the comments that Obama made over the weekend in this case.
Also, "Like everyone else, companies should be held accountable for the promises they make and for any contracts that they have signed." So, as you can see, there is a bevy of reaction that is already coming in on this story. And there's also been a bevy of reaction to this story that I'm about to tell you about, Blackwater.
The question is why have so many contractors been used in these engagements in Afghanistan and in Iraq? And is it a shadow army of sorts? That's the critical term that's often been used.
Take a look at this video. This is what they often call a walk for the media. These are five defendants, today, a 35-count indictment unsealed against these five contractors with Blackwater who are accused in the killing of 17 unarmed civilians back in 2007, all charged with voluntary manslaughter, attempt to commit manslaughter and/or using and discharging a firearm during a crime of violence.
It's an interesting situation. We also have this. This is how the case is described. I want you to hear the words now of Patrick Rowan -- he is the assistant general in Washington -- when he came out and read part of the indictment against these five Blackwater guards.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK ROWAN, ACTING ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: The consequences were devastating. The government allegations today that at least 34 unarmed Iraqi civilians, including women and children, were killed or injured without justification or provocation by these security guards in the shooting at Nisoor Square.
Today's indictment and guilty plea should serve as a reminder that those who engage in illegal attacks on civilians, whether during times of conflict or times of peace, will be held accountable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Suzanne Simons is one of the producers here at CNN. She's also working on a book on contractors, and I think Blackwater in specific, right?
SUZANNE SIMONS, CNN EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: Blackwater in particular, yes. And it's on Erik Prince.
SANCHEZ: Tell us, if you would, what -- without going too far into this, because we have a lot to talk about, what happened in this particular case?
SIMONS: In this particular case, there was a group of contractors who worked for Blackwater who entered a traffic circle and tried to secure it for another group that was coming through who was carrying a representative from the USAID organization, which works for the State Department.
What happened in this case is something set at least one of these guys off in terms of shooting. Now, the company says and the guys have said as well, we came under fire. We thought we were coming under fire. So, we returned fire. They returned...
SANCHEZ: Indiscriminately.
SIMONS: ... a lot of fire is the issue here.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
SIMONS: And a lot of people died as a result of it. So, you saw in the indictments today there 14 counts of manslaughter or attempted manslaughter.
SANCHEZ: But here is the bigger question that a lot of Americans are asking themselves as they watch what's going on in Iraq in particular. If you pay people to fight a war, aren't you thereby then creating an incentive to be at war?
SIMONS: Well, I think...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Soldiers are paid whether they fight or not, whether there's a war or not.
SIMONS: That's right. That's right.
SANCHEZ: These guys only are paid when we're in combat.
SIMONS: That's right. That's right. That's true, although that would be the worst-case scenario to imagine that someone would go out and do something like this to kind of keep the war going. I think really the point was...
SANCHEZ: That's what Eisenhower said.
SIMONS: Shinseki was in the news earlier today. You and I were talking about this. When he had called for more troops, and he sort of got quietly pushed out of the Pentagon, if the U.S. had had the number of troops that he had asked for, they probably wouldn't have needed all of these contractors for this additional support in Iraq.
So, you can't say that the government is completely innocent in this. This was a conscious decision. They knew they were sending private security over there. There was no legal structure for them to be held accountable.
SANCHEZ: The bottom line is this case might have an effect on the future policies regarding contractors in this country. Many would argue that's a good thing. Do we know any specifics of this?
SIMONS: Well, we do.
The status of forces agreement which was just agreed to between Iraqi officials and U.S. officials takes all of this immunity that they have been enjoying for the past several years away starting January 1.
SANCHEZ: All contractors?
SIMONS: All contractors, 200,000.
SANCHEZ: And I think we have got a graphic we can put up which kind of exemplifies how this is going to work.
SIMONS: Well, there's a guy who represents an industry that looks out for these companies. And his name is Doug Brooks. He's with the International Peace Operations Association. He says that: "Iraq's legal system has come far from the Saddam era, but clearly the situation still warrants special consideration and protections for international employees. The negotiated SOFA" -- which is of course the status of forces agreement -- "is significantly deficient in this regard."
Now, imagine what president-elect Obama is going to be inheriting when he has more contractors than troops, no clear legal structure. I see a mess coming on.
SANCHEZ: You're absolutely right. We will be following it. Thanks so much for your insight on this.
SIMONS: My pleasure.
SANCHEZ: Suzanne Simons.
President-elect Barack Obama, speaking of President-elect Barack Obama, he hammers the heads of Ford, just head of GM and the head of Chrysler, also says that we need a jobs program in this country, jobs program. Where have you heard that before?
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
SANCHEZ: We have just gotten some breaking news, some information about what may be a horrific accident. We're told that some of the crews are racing now to the scene to see if they can get some pictures up, so we can share with you.
But the information we is that an F-18 has crashed into a residential area in San Diego, once again, an F-18 crashing into a residential area in San Diego. Don't know if it was on training exercises. Obviously, we will continue to follow this story. There are, as you know, a bevy of particular bases in that area. And as we get more information, we are going to be sharing it with you. In fact, we're told we might be able to turn around some pictures or some aerials real shortly, real soon. So, we will have that for you. Stay with us.
Meanwhile, something else to take note of. Back in early November during a segment on the economy on this newscast during this hour, I asked our guest on this show whether the Obama administration might need to enact another project of works programs, similar to those in the past, like the WPA, the Works Progress Administration. I was assailed by a bevy of bloggers for even asking the question. Well, this weekend, president-elect Obama suggested what we may need in this country is a works program to stimulate employment, fix our infrastructure, and thereby stimulate production.
Get ready, Mr. President-elect. You're about to get hammered as well. Barack Obama's plans for your economy, that is next, and more on the breaking news. An F-18 has crashed in a San Diego neighborhood. We're told it's a residential neighborhood. And expect details and aerials on that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, again, breaking news story developing as we speak. It's happened in a residential neighborhood in Miramar -- or in San Diego.
An F-18 has crashed into the neighborhood. And now we're starting to get some details being shared with us, this coming from Ian Gregor with the FAA. He says it was a military jet. It crashed in the neighborhood. The jet at the time was apparently not talking to anyone at any of the -- any of the controllers in any of the towers.
A plane crashed into the residential area, they can now confirm. It's two miles from the air field. It was supposed to land in Miramar. And now we're being also told that the pilot ejected from this F-18. Not sure on his or her condition at this point. The crash happened about 20 minutes ago, 30 minutes ago, some still trying to get to the scene.
And as soon as we're able to furnish you with some pictures, we will be sharing those with you.
By the way, San Diego's Naval base is one of the largest U.S. Navy bases in the West Coast of the United States. So, there certainly is a lot of activity. It's a hub of military activity. As we get more information, just let me know, Angie (ph), and I will pass it along.
In the meantime, Barack Obama comes out this weekend and says he is for this deal with the Big Three automakers. However, he is in no way for the CEOs of the Big Three automakers. He's quite critical of them, though he seems to be for some kind of deal with their companies. Let's listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: If this management team that's currently in place doesn't understand the urgency of the situation and is not willing to make the tough choices and adapt to these new circumstances, then they should go. If, on the other hand, they are willing, able, and show themselves committed to making those important changes, then, you know, that raises a different situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes. And that's Barack Obama.
Now, Christopher Dodd, the chairman of the committee, goes even further. He's hammering Wagoner specifically from General Motors.
By the way, this is "The Wall Street Journal." As you can see, right smack in the middle, "Outside Pressure Grows For GM to Oust Wagoner." And there's this quote again from Chris Dodd. Let's go ahead and put that up.
He says, essentially, very simple -- simply put, I should say: "I think he has to go." This is Christopher Dodd speaking in this case.
Let's bring in professor Jeffrey Miron. He's a Harvard Business School professor who has helped us through this controversy now for the better part of the last month. Also with it an Eamon Javers. He's with Politico.com.
My thanks to both of you for being with us.
We have got a graphic we could put up for viewers now so they can get a sense of what this deal is starting to look like. CNN has now confirmed that it's most likely going to be a $15 billion deal, much less than was originally talked about. And that would be a loan, by the way, that they're going to set up a car czar that's going to help in the restructuring of this deal as it's done by February 15.
And if these companies don't have a deal put together that appears to be able to restructure it, the money can be apparently taken back. As you can see at the bottom there, loans can actually be rescinded, which is an interesting part of this argument.
Gentlemen, does this look to you like something that can work?
I will start with you, professor.
JEFFREY MIRON, ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: I think not. I think that it's sort of putting a Band-Aid over something that's a much bigger problem. By avoiding bankruptcy, they're trying to pretend that they can avoid the hard choices, but the government czar is not going to make those hard choices. They need to let the people who have real money at stake, that is the creditors of these failed companies, make those decisions.
SANCHEZ: Will it at least make these companies, you know, better, do you think?
MIRON: I think not.
I think the fact that some outside money is being put in, taxpayer money is being put in, gives them an excuse, allows them to keep doing some of the things they have been doing, rather than forcing them to make the hard decisions.
SANCHEZ: All right. That's how it goes with the car companies. Let's look at this in two other ways now, the effect it has on the total economy and the effect it has on the politics of our country.
Eamon, let me bring you into this.
EAMON JAVERS, "THE POLITICO": Sure.
SANCHEZ: Barack Obama seems to be saying, you know what, we have got to do something. I'm not sure what it is, but I'm for some kind of deal. But I'm also going to castigate these three guys for not doing a good job with their companies.
What is the message he's sending?
JAVERS: Well, he's sending you better shape up or you're not getting any more federal money. But the problem is the political pressure on lawmakers on Capitol Hill is enormous to do something to save all these jobs.
No member of Congress wants to be in the position of voting against American jobs. And that's sort of the box that they're finding themselves in politically. So, what they're doing here is they're just sort of kicking the problem down the road by several months into the new Obama administration and they're going to have to address it again then.
But we should be clear and point out at that least as far as we know now, one of these three companies is not asking for this money, this $15 billion. And that's Ford Motor Company. They seem to be saying they're just fine and they're not going to participate in this program at this point. At least that's what I'm hearing now.
SANCHEZ: Eamon, let me ask you another question, this having to do with something I have gotten a lot of heat for here.
Several weeks ago...
JAVERS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: In fact, I think the professor was with us. And I suggested, you know, it may be time in this country to start looking for some kind of works project once again.
I know I got hammered for it. And, this weekend, Barack Obama said something similar.
Is this -- which signal did we just lose? We lost them both? Oh, boy.
There you go. You start to ask somebody a question and then you lose them just in the middle of the question. We'll see if we can get them back.
In the meantime, let me bring you back up to date with the situation that's going on right now out in San Diego. It's an F-18. The F-18 has crashed in the area just around San Diego. It has been confirmed to us now that, in fact, it is -- it is a residential area. Don't know how much damage has been done. But we understand there are now pictures that show that there is at least one home that was fully engulfed as a result of the plane hitting it in this area.
So we're going to stay on top of that story. As we get more information we're going to share it with you.
Also, Wesley Clark is going to be joining us in just a little bit to talk about a couple of things. First of all, a sneak attack in Pakistan and Shinseki joining Barack Obama's cabinet.
That and more. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We have some pictures coming in now as we have been telling you of this F-18 crash in San Diego. There you see the picture from afar. We think our affiliate out there, KGTV for bringing us that picture. Here's the information we're getting now. Apparently it crashed in the neighborhood. It sparked at least one house fire. This is according to the Associated Press.
Boy, as you can see, as you look -- look at this picture. You can see that's a heavily populated area. I mean, that's a thick residential area. It was one home directly affected. Michael you were telling me a moment ago that somebody apparently here was interviewed and they said that they had -- they were affected by this.
Well-known for its role in the movie "Top Gun" Miramar is. Home to about 10,000 Marines. There it is. Thanks, Michael. Resident Scott Patterson said he cried as she told the radio station KNX there, "We saw two big bangs and then the smoke came up. We don't know what it was."
Again, what's tough to figure out at this point -- by the way, TV footage has now been showing one house and two cars on fire in the area. Don't know if there were any people on the ground at the time of the collision obviously. That's important to find out at this point. We're trying to get you somebody in the area to talk to there. Some of the police officials or fire officials who obviously have their hands full now dealing with the situation.
But again, for those of you just now joining us and seeing these pictures as they move around a little bit, this is from KGTV. This is spot coverage you're looking at now. Breaking news. You can see what's left of the debris there on the street just behind our breaking news banner. You see all the debris from the house. The smoldering is still going pretty strong.
And it's a result of an F-18 that on exercise that crashed inside into a home there in the area of Miramar in San Diego, California. We have Wes Clark as our guest now. We had planned to talk to the former NATO Supreme Commander about everything going on with Shinseki as well as -- and his appointment to the Cabinet by Barack Obama as well as information about this attack in Peshawar.
But let's go ahead and turn the conversation toward this, you being a military man. I imagine you're a little saddened as you watch something like this. GEN. WESLEY CLARK, FORMER SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER, NATO: Well, it's a real tragedy.
Apparently the pilot got out and -- and he has no more control over the airplane. I'm sure he did everything he could to get it away from a populated area and nevertheless, that's the hazard. Where Miramar is, it is built up around Miramar, it's a very well-developed area. We've been flying airplanes out of there for many, many years. And as you mentioned, it used to be Miramar Naval Air Station and used to run Top Gun out of there.
SANCHEZ: F-18s usually do, what, military exercises out of that area as well as Pendleton, right?
CLARK: It could be. It could have been any kind of a qualification exercise for the pilot. They have to get so many hours in during routine exercises. They could have been off working carrier landings off the coast.
We just don't know at this point. I'm sure the Armed Forces are going to come out with a full explanation soon as to what the mission of the aircraft was and what it was that required the pilot to eject.
SANCHEZ: And I'm sure there are some people there in the municipality who will begin to ask questions as they always do, general, about why these flights are taking place over residential areas. Do you have an answer for them?
CLARK: Well, a lot of these bases have been closed. This one has been looked at as part of the Base Closure Commission, I'm sure. And the decision was made to retain it because it's very important. It's in a strategic location. It supports the kind of training that can be done offshore in the Pacific, off aircraft carriers and for exercises. It's been a training base in the past. And I'm sure it's got some well-developed facilities.
These things are always a trade-off. And of course, when you start with an air base, often there's nothing in the area. I'm sure that was the case here at Miramar 50 years, 60 years ago ...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
CLARK: ... when they started, but then homes build into the area and you create a potential hazard as we're seeing today.
SANCHEZ: Take us through the decision-making process for a pilot who makes the call to eject from his or her plane. Is there anything he could do to keep the plane from becoming a projectile afterwards?
CLARK: Well, you're talking to someone who's not a rated military pilot. I've flown in high-performance aircraft but as someone who's flown in the back seat and I've gotten the safety briefings. And what I know about it is this. First of all, our pilots are extremely well-trained. And they're extremely well-versed and they do a lot of simulator work on what to do when something goes wrong with the aircraft. So they're not going to punch out of the aircraft if there's any way to save the aircraft. So this must have been a very compelling situation. He would have done everything he could have to have gotten the aircraft offshore and out to sea, if he could have done so, that's he would have preferred to have punched out.
And somehow it couldn't be done. And obviously, you know, like -- like all of our men and women in uniform, he cares a lot about the civilian community. He's going to do everything he can to avoid harming people. For all we know, his family could be in that area somewhere. No one would take this decision lightly. This was a matter of not being able to control the aircraft. Otherwise, he wouldn't have punched out at this stage.
SANCHEZ: It's got to be so difficult. And by the way, we've not yet received word on his or her condition. Only this memo that we received moments ago from the FAA is that -- and as you mentioned moments ago, general, that the pilot was able to eject. But don't know the condition.
General, hang with us there real quick. There is a lot of things we want to talk to you about.
We're being told that we have CNN Radio's Ninette Sosa on the line who might be able to share information on this.
Ninette, what do you have for us?
NINETTE SOSA, CNN RADIO: Well, what I have done, is I did call the City of Santee City Hall actually because that's right over that mountain where this crash happened at the Miramar Air Station there. They told me that Hartland (ph) had been dispatched, the were still reviewing and doing interviews on the grounds from witnesses and so forth. San Diego Fire Department is also on scene again, also doing interviews. And it's a very remote area to a certain degree.
You have a 52 freeway that runs east and west and then you have the other two freeways, 163 and 805, which run north and south. Both of those freeways run parallel. This is where this incident happened, toward the northern area of the city of San Diego.
SANCHEZ: Is there any information as to the whereabouts or the condition at this point of the pilot or pilots who ejected?
SOSA: Nothing so far. The City of Santee Fire Department were still waiting for directions on how they could assist. San Diego Fire is the one and Hartland is also the one that is on scene taking down information. It looks -- at least one house was hit, if not -- it's not clear if more houses were hit.
SANCHEZ: Let's look at that house right there. We're looking at a live picture right now.
SOSA: Correct.
SANCHEZ: It looks like at least the skeletal outline of what was either a building or a house. That's the only structure that we're talking about right now that was affected?
SOSA: Apparently at this point, yes. That's according to the video. That's a densely populated area. Very popular for -- it's a little bit more up-scale. When you head toward that direction, it's also -- the homes are, of course, very close. Property is a big value there. So homes are situated very close. So it's going to be difficulty to tell if that was a duplex or a single-family structure.
SANCHEZ: Usually we can tell about injuries by the number of ambulances or fire rescue trucks that are sent to the scene. Have you gotten any indication about the trucks that have been called out there?
SOSA: No, I haven't. We do have a call to the PIO for San Diego Fire which is Maurice Mookie (ph). We have a call out there and, as I said earlier, I spoke with the City of Santee and their Fire Department and they also were still getting information. And here's another situation that's going on to help better visualize.
This is around the lunchtime in the North City or University City area. So you're going to come across a lot of traffic and so forth. So it might be a little difficult to get to or maneuver to that area for the emergency crews.
SANCHEZ: It's interesting you'd say that because we were told moments ago in a report -- I believe I'm quoting the Associated Press here. I've gotten so much information on this story. Yes. The Associated Press is reporting that footage showed two cars on fire as well. Two cars that were on fire.
So it -- it kind of backs up what you were talking about, Ninette, that there about the possibility that there may have been people on their lunch break and a lot of people moving about. I think Angie (ph), we're able to take the coverage now from one of the stations there in San Diego. What station is this? K -- Let's do that.
Let's dip into KFMV's coverage as they follow this F-18 crashing into a residential neighborhood.
Let's do it.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... We have what appears to be a military jet crash in University City. Possibly an F-18. We're hearing reports from several bystanders who saw (INAUDIBLE) -- a second pilot ejects, but perhaps the parachute did not open. We're being told that once again there are chemicals in the air. And this is as close as we can get. I'm going to toss it back to you. We're going to try to cue up that video that (INAUDIBLE)
SANCHEZ: All right. Let's do this.
We understand that same reporter who you were listening to moments ago had just conducted an interview with someone there on the ground. If you got that, Dan, let's go ahead and turn that around so we can give it a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Let's get back to Lisa here. Lisa, first of all, can you confirm it was a military aircraft?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I believe it was an F-18 or an F-14. It was definitely a military aircraft. We hear them in the area all the time. But you never expect to hear them crash. But we seem them in the air all the time on a daily basis out here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you say that you definitely saw that the plane did crash into one home, at least two?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn't see it crash, but I heard it crash. When I got out into my backyard, two roofers on the roof next door did see it and they said they saw two pilots eject. One pilot -- with the parachute opened and then the other pilot didn't make it for some reason.
So I can't confirm that that's true, but that's what they said they saw. And I got in my car, drove over to Nobel (ph) and saw the houses engulfed in flames just a mile from my home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lisa, we're going to have you cue up on your camera for us and we're going to try to show that live to our viewers at home. In the meantime, we'll bring in -- this is Donny James (ph). He also lives in the area. We're in University Heights near the corner of Genesee -- University City, excuse me. Near the corner of Governor and Genesee. Because of chemicals in the air the police are telling us to stay away from the crash site.
Sir, what did you see and what did you hear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I was outside at my mother's house. I was smoking a cigarette and I noticed one of the Miramar fighter planes had a very low altitude. It started doing a (INAUDIBLE) and then it just spiraled right out of "Top Gun." It came flying down. My mother screamed. It was on the next street over. We live on the canyon side of the house so I knew it was up on Huggins. I think the address is 4362 Huggins.
I immediately rode my bike down there to see if I could help. And this is before the police showed up and the fire utilities. But the fire had consumed both houses to where I couldn't even get near the house. And then I went by the high school and I saw one of the pilots. He was dazed and confused. I don't know -- but I did see the jet spiral just like out of "Top Gun."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's talk about the pilot you did see. You say that he was dazed. Did he look injured at all?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just looked like he was dazed like oh, my god, what happened over civilian air space? It was definitely an F-15 fighter plane and both houses are just like totally engulfed in flames. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we should mention Donny is traveling on a bike because right now all of these streets are closed down with barricades. The Highway Patrol, San Diego Police not letting any vehicles in. You were able to get there on your bike. Tell us about that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I rode my bike, I ran up to the house but there was too many flames. The neighbors were all like lookie-lous just looking at the place. And then the Fire Department showed up. The police showed up. The police told me to get the hell out of there. It was just mass confusion. This is like winning the lottery in a bad way. It could have happened to anybody's house. You know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's talk about this house. If there were people home, do you fear that possibly there could be casualties, perhaps some victims inside?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possibly, yes. I do fear that. Because I ran up to the house and I couldn't get near it. I singed my little hands. I'm not a hero or anything, but hey, it could have been my house. I have a little niece at home.
And oh, my God. It's just like -- this is terrible. And I read in the paper that they were going to have possibly shut down the military base here and possibly put up the new Charger stadium here and move the Marines down with all of the military closings. I mean, this is bad. It's one thing to have the Blue Angels fly by, but over an area where it's populated by civilians, it's terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. There you go.
Back to the pictures now. Obviously some animated descriptions there by some of the residents there, talking to reporters as they arrive on the scene. We also have with us now, I understand, Mike Price. He's a principal at a nearby school. I understand the school has been in lockdown mode now as a result of what's going on there.
Mr. Price, are you there with us, sir?
MIKE PRICE, SCHOOL PRINCIPAL: Yes, I am, thank you.
SANCHEZ: Describe what you're being told to do with your students.
PRICE: Right now we are holding our students. We had just completed a lunch period or we were really close to the end of lunch period. And so when the plane went down, we got all of our students in class and we locked the campus down so they will remain in class and they will remain on campus until we get the all clear from our Fire Department and our rescue squads that it's safe to either release our students to the next class or to home.
SANCHEZ: How far are you from the site of the crash?
PRICE: Roughly three blocks off the eastern end of our border. Eastern end of the campus.
SANCHEZ: So I imagine when this thing came down with quite a thud that you either heard it or felt it there at the school. Is that right?
PRICE: The staff members that I talked to reported two loud pops or two loud booms. And then a very large plume of smoke. That was about what they saw.
SANCHEZ: Do these students in some cases have family that reside in this area? And is that part of your dilemma right now with them?
PRICE: That's our attendance zone, so we're determining whether we have students that live in the affected area or not.
SANCHEZ: Obviously enough, you don't want them to find out about this in any other way than perhaps either by talking to yourself or counselors. Is that the procedure usually?
PRICE: That would be correct.
SANCHEZ: So you're trying to kind of protect them against this thing. What's the mood like there? What are teachers saying? What are students saying? What is it like behind those locked doors at your school right now?
PRICE: The mood at school is -- you know, they're apprehensive. And it's a little tense. We've had some, you know, we've had a lot of fire and police personnel on the scene assisting us. And so it would be with any disaster. We have a plan and we executed the plan. We're taking care of our students first. And as soon as we get the all- clear, we'll release them back to their families.
SANCHEZ: Principal Price, it sounds like you're doing a good job there in a delicate situation. We thank you, sir, for taking time to talk to us here at CNN.
PRICE: Thank you very much, sir.
SANCHEZ: We have Lauren Becker, as well who sent us some reports just moments ago. These are i-Reports, some of the first to come from the scene that we want to share with you now. She was among those who had first seen something falling out of the sky as it was described moments ago and took this picture just as the plane, apparently, had crashed.
She sent us a second photo, perhaps we can cut to that as well. Looks like she's almost a little closer to the scene. There you see the fire before it's extinguished or before it began to smolder in this area.
Universal City (ph) is what it was called around the area around Miramar. We also had this come. And our thanks to Lauren Becker for bringing us those I-Reports to us.
We have this, given this just moments ago. Michael, my assistant handing me this saying a Miramar spokesperson from the base is saying personnel from the base have now been dispatched to the crash site. Quote, here is what they say at the base. "We're still trying to confirm the aircraft even belongs to us," says Marine Staff Sergeant Bobby Bryant.
Let's bring in once again our general.
What does that tell you? It almost seems, Wesley Clark, as if they're still trying to figure out what's going on, as well.
CLARK: It sounds like they've got to really inventory who was up in the air what they were doing and where they were. It's possible. Military aircraft do move from base to base and they do training flights, they do orientation flights. There could have been an aircraft from another base that was scheduled to come in that hadn't arrived. And so they're going to go through all of those procedures to find out which aircraft it was. I'm sure somebody knows because that pilot would have put out a May Day call if he was spiraling down the way the resident described.
SANCHEZ: Hold on -- semper paratus.
Apparently our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, has just sent us an e-mail letting us know she has now confirmed that in fact, it was an F-18 and that it was. Angie, tell me one more time. It's an F/A-18 confirmed to have been from Miramar or San Diego? Two- seater from Miramar although, you know, there's some questions about this at the outset of this general.
Because there's Miramar, there's San Diego Station. There's Pendleton not too far away. There's a lot of military activity in this area.
CLARK: That's right. There's a lot of bases out there and those aircraft probably constantly move back and forth. That sounds like the confirmation you were waiting to hear.
SANCHEZ: What does it tell you that they said, and you heard the one witness said we could easily see that one of the pilots was able to eject. We saw him get out. He only looked like he was dazed. But then she went on to say, and again, these are eyewitnesses and oftentimes what they see and what they describe are very different from the facts. We'd hold her at her word. She went on to say about the second pilot that tried to eject, she or he didn't make it. What do you make of that?
CLARK: I don't know. As you say, first reports often are incorrect. And we'll just have to wait for the official report on this. I would tell you from all of my experience and discussion and conversations with people who have done it and people who have talked about doing it, punching out of an aircraft is not a pleasant experience. It is a very unpleasant experience.
And if the first pilot got out and he was only dazed, he was very lucky. People often go out with broken arms and legs. We know what happened to Senator McCain when he punched out over North Vietnam 40, 50 years ago. So it's always a problematic experience. We don't know what could have happened to the second pilot. And we don't know whether or not the chute opened.
SANCHEZ: We're fortunate to the have Wes Clark, former NATO supreme commander with us as this developing story breaks here. An F/A-18 crashing into a residential area in the area around San Diego. Obviously, we're all over it trying to get you more information. We're going to take a break.
When we come back, we understand we have more pictures from residents that have been sent in that we're going to be sharing with you. You're watching CNN's breaking coverage. I'm Rick Sanchez. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
SANCHEZ: And the news that's breaking at this hour is an F/A-18 that has crashed into a residential area in, around San Diego. These are some of the pictures as they come in right now. We talked moments ago to the principal of a school only three blocks away as is he described his location.
Interestingly enough, on the twitter board, I'm looking over my shoulder here, somebody just sent us this note. "Thank God it didn't hit the school. Thank God it didn't hit the school."
Yes, amen to that. What we all say. Jeremy Gimbel also sent us some pictures, he is at the Beth Israel congregation. Jeremy Gimbel is on the phone -- no, I'm sorry we've got his pictures. Jeremy Gimbel just sent us these photos. Let's take a look at them. Again, these are similar to the pictures we got from Lauren Becker moments ago, also from a distance just as apparently the plane had crashed.
Lauren Becker though did also take some photos. These are hers. And she's good enough to join us now. She is on the phone. What did you first see, Lauren, as you were -- before you took out your camera?
LAUREN BECKER, CNN I-REPORTER: Actually, first, about 10 minutes of 4:00, I heard two booms, one kind of quiet and the second one very loud and then about 10 minutes later he went outside and saw the fire. In the zoomed in fire I didn't actually see that fire till I zoomed in on it. But it was pretty amazing. Very scary.
SANCHEZ: How far away were you?
BECKER: About a mile.
SANCHEZ: You're a mile away with these pictures?
BECKER: Yes, no more than two miles. It's very close.
SANCHEZ: What did it sound like when you first heard that noise?
BECKER: I thought it was maybe just a test explosion. There's the Miramar Base nearby. I thought maybe they were doing some drills or maybe a plane taking off with a sonic boom. I didn't know. Just one kind of a quiet boom and the second subsequent very loud boom.
SANCHEZ: There's been so much talk about these pilots, one of them apparently safely able to eject. The second one we're not so sure about. What have you heard or did you by any chance see anything?
BECKER: No, I didn't see it happening, see them eject themselves. I have heard on local news reports that people have seen one man eject himself. I didn't know about a second pilot though.
SANCHEZ: There was apparently another pilot on board though. You just haven't heard anything? Is that what I just heard you say.
BECKER: Talking to friends online. Someone said, oh, gee, gosh, there was a second pilot. And just hearing from you right now he may not have gotten out. So everything's got to come in for me too.
SANCHEZ: And once again, we are not confirming that, that only according to a report we heard someone say on the air here while speaking to one of our affiliates there in San Diego. This happened around lunchtime. So I guess describe to us what the scene was, what the blabber was on the street as people came together and knew that will something was going on but weren't quite sure what it was?
BECKER: I'm in a pretty quiet residential area. Most everyone living around me are at work. I look outside, there are so many helicopters and so many sirens coming from all different directions. I hear all these people on the local news calling in very close to the scene. So I can imagine especially if you're closer by, it was probably very hectic. Apparently they're evacuating people in the area. They have HAZMATs and military in the area taking people out of there.
SANCHEZ: My thanks to you, Lauren Becker.
I imagine with all the fuel on an F/A-18 that they have something they'll be dealing with for quite some time. The latest information we're getting from CNN wires and from our correspondents there on the ground is that there was actually a confirmation of at least one pilot that was seen by several witnesses but still very little information on the second. We'll stay on top of the story, obviously, as we get more, we'll share it with you.
In the meantime let's take you now into "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Rick.
