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Obama HUD Secretary Pick; Big Three Meltdown; Defense Secretary Visits Iraq; Taliban Suicide Attack
Aired December 13, 2008 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALINA CHO, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, everybody, thanks so much for joining us. We begin with a CNN exclusive, the embattled governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich, speaking out only to CNN's Drew Griffin. The governor is accused of trying to sell Barack Obama's Senate seat to the highest bidder, and according to a criminal complaint, he even considered taking the seat himself. So will he resign? Drew caught up to the governor as he left his lawyer's office.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Drew Griffin with CNN. Can you say anything to the people of the state of Illinois, sir? Do you have anything to say?
GOV ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: I will at the appropriate time, absolutely.
GRIFFIN: Are you going to resign, sir?
BLAGOJEVICH: I'll have a lot to say at the appropriate time.
GRIFFIN: Governor, are the authorities right in their position of criminal complaints, did you do what they say you did?
Governor? Just 30 seconds for anybody, for the state of Illinois?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHO: Certainly was a valiant effort. CNN's Drew Griffin of our investigative unit joins us now from Chicago. So of course, Drew, the big question is will the governor resign, and so far he's not saying, is he?
Reporter: Not at all and that's what everybody wants to know, Alina, not if he's going to resign really, but when. The pressure is mounting. Two actions yesterday in this state, one, the Illinois attorney general, basically asking the Supreme Court to rule that this guy is unfit for the office, and the House and Senate will meet on Monday, putting even more pressure on this governor to step down.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): In perhaps a sign he has nowhere else to turn for help, pastors of local churches showed up at the governor's door, emerging to say they came to offer support. LEONARD BARR, FELLOWSHIP MISSIONARY BAPTIST CHURCH: I had a prayer with my governor. He called me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was your prayer? What did you say?
BARR: He continues to be a great governor. Stay the course.
GRIFFIN: The governor waved to the press and waived off any questions on what he is going to do. At the downtown office building where the governor works, Illinois attorney general announced she had filed a motion with the state supreme court to have the governor stripped of his power.
LISA MADIGAN, ILLINOIS ATTORNEY GENERAL: We think this it is very clear that he is incapable serving and we are certainly hopeful that the Illinois Supreme Court will hear this matter and appoint Lieutenant Governor Quinn as the acting governor.
GRIFFIN: Behind the scenes, the legislature is gearing up to start their own removal procedures. Meeting on Monday, the House and Senate are expected to take up motions to strip the governor of his ability to name a U.S. senator to the vacant seat prosecutors say he was trying to sell. And Democratic house members are circulating this letter asking colleagues to join them in impeaching the governor.
But that will take time. Politicians agree the best thing for the state is for the governor to resign, and while his accused chief of staff, John Harris, did submit his letter of resignation, the governor apparently is still on the job working and not telling his press secretary much else.
LUCIO GUERREO, BLAGOJEVICH'S PRESS SECY: People are trying to deal with today's issues as opposed to what's been going on this whole week.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: And in fact the governor even signed a bill into law yesterday, Alina. He's still going to work, acting as governor, and his staff acting as if there's nothing really wrong.
CHO: It's incredible. He's almost oblivious to the fact that there's this enormous political scandal swirling around him. Drew, you mentioned in your pieces the Illinois attorney general sort of trying to act to forcibly remove the governor using a temporary restrain order. I mean, I think a lot of people believe that he should step down in the state of Illinois and elsewhere, but is this going to stick?
GRIFFIN: I would have to say no. This is a clause in the constitution of Illinois that's never been used before, section 382, and it's basically to remove a governor from office who is either mentally unstable or is, you know, comatose or has some kind of a health condition where he literally cannot serve and cannot make the decision not to serve. It's never been used before. I think the process will be slow, even if the Supreme Court takes it up. But on Monday, the state legislature, they are expected to try to strip him of his powers at least as he comes to the U.S. Senate, and then move on to the impeachment proceedings.
But keep in mind, Alina, except for impeachment, everything the state legislature passes must be signed by a governor to become law. Who's the governor?
CHO: Right, exactly and I think it's important to note, too, Drew, as you and I were talking about earlier that as governor, technically Governor Blagojevich can still appoint the successor to Barack Obama's Senate seat, right? But is that likely, No. 1, and No. w, if not that, then what are the other options?
GRIFFIN: Yes, is it likely? Who knows. Will he do it? Will he do it? Maybe. Will that person be seated? There's two hurdles: No. 1, whoever, let's say he does appoint somebody, will that person actually accept the appointment that would be toxic? No. 2, the U.S. Senate has already said, listen, we're not going to seat anybody in our body that you pick, so you might as well not do that.
What -- another consideration that's going on down on Monday in Springfield is whether or not to make this Senate seat an election, a special election they would hold to fill this seat. I'm not quite sure on how all that would take place, since changing the law again would require "the governor" to sign that into law, but that's one of the things they're considering. No appointment here, let's make it a special election, fair and square, anybody can throw their hat in the ring then.
CHO: Boy, a lot going on there in the state of Illinois, a place where they are not strangers to political scandals, but it seems, Drew, this one takes the cake. Drew Griffin of our investigative unit. Drew, thank you very much.
Now, no one has been more vocal about wanting Barack Obama's Senate seat than Illinois congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr. In fact, his aides commissioned a poll saying he had the strongest support, but did he talk with Governor Blagojevich about a quid pro quo deal? Did he promise to raise money for the governor in exchange for that Senate seat? In an interview with CNN's Don Lemon, Jackson is adamant in saying he did nothing wrong.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: When you met with the governor on Monday, what did you discuss?
REP JESSE JACKSON (D), JR., ILLINOIS: I presented him my credential credentials, a notebook which I'm prepared to give anyone a copy of.
LEMON: No discussion at all of quid pro quo or anything like that, was there a discussion?
JACKSON: I had nothing to offer, nothing to offer but my record of public service. That's how I've conducted myself for 13-1/2 years and I did that day, as well.
LEMON: That's all you discussed?
JACKSON: That's all we discussed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHO: And you can catch more of Don's interview with Jesse Jackson, Jr. in a couple of minutes, that's coming up in our next half hour at 12:30 Eastern Time.
Illinois, of course, no stranger to governors getting in trouble. Georgia Ryan, Blagojevich's predecessor is serving a six and a half year prison term for corruption, after one year behind bars he is now apologizing and petitioning President Bush for clemency. Ryan's attorney, James Thompson, who is also a former governor, read Ryan's statement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES THOMPSON, RYAN'S ATTORNEY: "It has been a difficult journey for me to get to this point, as I truly believed in my service to the people, but it was less than my best, and I am sorry."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHO: Ryan is hoping that President Bush will commute his sentence to time served.
Well, President-elect Obama says new ideas are needed to fix the nation's housing problem. Today, he is announcing Sean Donovan as his pick for Housing and Urban Development secretary, that's HUD. Donovan comes with some hands-on experience. He's a former New York City housing commissioner. Donovan has a national reputation for developing affordable housing.
Well, there is still hope for the Big Three U.S. automakers. Congress, you'll recall, killed that $14 billion bailout, but the Bush administration could jump in to help. CNN's Kate Bolduan standing by with the latest with the White House effort. Kate's joining us from Washington.
So, what is that? Will they take some of that -- portion of the $700 billion package that was approved for the banks - Kate.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: That is the big question. We know that possibly what they're considering, a couple options, it's possible, Alina. Two senior administration officials tell CNN that President Bush is thinking about possibly, this weekend or next week, tapping TARP funds to help struggling automakers. This all comes after weeks of debate and negotiations on Capitol Hill that broke down over Republican demands for autoworker wage cuts.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): From shock. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were incapable of coming up with an answer.
BOLDUAN: To placing blame for the Senate's failure Thursday night to agree on an emergency loan for the auto industry.
SEN CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), BANKING CHAIRMAN: No matter what they came back with, unless it was everything the Republicans, that handful wanted, this deal was not going to go forward.
BOLDUAN: Democratic lawmakers including Senator Chris Dodd, are putting the fault squarely on Republicans, suggesting the GOP is putting the burden on the backs of autoworkers. The president of the Autoworkers Union agrees.
RON GETTELFINGER, UNITED AUTO WORKERS: They thought perhaps they could have a two-fer here maybe, you know, pierce the heart of organized labor while representing the foreign brands.
BOLDUAN: The UAW is pointing to geography as a reason for the collapse in negotiations. More than a third of the senators, both Republican and Democrat, voting against the bill, come from southern, non-union states, where foreign auto companies have plants. Republicans are firing back. Tennessee senator, Bob Corker, the lead negotiator for Senate Republicans, suggests the UAW, a large voting bloc for the Democratic Party, is the cause of the breakdown.
SEN BOB CORKER (R), TENNESSEE: The only way a bill was going to pass out of that Senate and the House on the Democratic side fo was for the UAW to say we release to you vote for this. I mean, I hate to be so blunt, but that's politics, OK?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BOLDUAN: Now, this all comes back to the sticking point of a date, when to reduce wages for autoworkers. Republicans wanted a date certain in the next year, but Democrats and auto union leaders said no, insisting they wouldn't make the change before union contracts are up in 2011.
Now, for the White House's part, a senior White House official told me this morning that they are now reviewing data on the automakers' financial situation before considering options for helping the auto industry -- Alina.
CHO: Certainly millions of workers watching this very closely.
BOLDUAN: So many people watching this, yes.
CHO: So many people, yeah. Kate Bolduan in Washington. Kate, thank you.
BOLDUAN: Of course.
CHO: And Canada, of course, offering to help with the Big Three rescue. Canadian officials say they will provide a 20 percent match for whatever money the U.S. government provides. There's a big reason for that. Almost 28,000 Canadians work for either GM, Ford or Chrysler.
The Big Three meltdown is having an impact on Europe, too. Remember this is global, and CNN's Frederik Pleitgen has that part of the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FREDERIK, PLEITGEN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Senate's rejection of the proposed bailout for the U.S. auto industry...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The motion is not agreed to.
PLEITGEN: Is sending shock waves across the Atlantic. GM employs more than 55,000 people in Europe, most of them at Opel in Germany.
GM announced it is "very disappointed in this development." GM says it's working to cut costs and boost sales for its European operation, but its subsidiary, Opal, has asked the German government for loan guarantees in case General Motors files for bankruptcy. And Sweden has agreed to a multibillion-dollar bailout that would help SAAB, which is also owned by GM and Volvo, owned by Ford.
In all, Ford employs about 70,000 people in plants across the continent.
(on camera): This is a 1957 Ford thunderbird from the glory days of American automotive engineering, but experts say even if one of the Big Three were to go bust now, that wouldn't necessarily help their competitors from here in Europe or Asia.
(voice-over): Auto expert, Roland Kayser, worked for both European and American carmakers. He now restores vintage models. Kayser believes even if GM or Chrysler were gone, Americans wouldn't necessarily buy BMWs or Volkswagens instead.
ROLAND KAYSER, ATELIER AUTOMOBILE: It will go through a deep valley (ph) and I'm not sure if each European automotive company will survive.
PLEITGEN: Automotive supplies would be hit, too. European companies like tire maker, Continental, and car electronics giant, Bosch, export a lot of their production to the U.S. and both are grappling with massively falling demand.
Some experts believe a failing U.S. auto industry will affect the entire global economy.
JOHN REED, FINANCIAL TIMES: We do have the likes of a Chapter 11 filing from GM, it would be the largest business failure in U.S. history so I think the overall macro impact, which then affects car sales, generally, would be much larger than any sort of industry- specific effect. PLEITGEN: And experts say that means a longer worldwide recession, which would hurt Europe just as much as America.
Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHO: And Asia's top leaders are talking about ways to fight the global financial crisis. The leaders of China, Japan, South Korea held their first ever three-way summit. They said that Asia needs to be the center of economic growth and they promise that they're not going to put up any new barriers to investment or trade for at least a year.
What a day for our weather team, blizzard, ice, storms and flooding, oh, my. Our Reynolds Wolf watching it all for us.
Hey, Reynolds.
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST:
(WEATHER REPORT)
We'll have more coming up right here on CNN SATURDAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHO: Ah, the sound of buzz saws, it must be winter. The northeast trying to recover from a brutal winter storm, snow, ice and high winds toppled trees and power lines. More than a million homes and businesses lost power, at least one death is being blamed on the storm. The governors of Massachusetts and New Hampshire have declared states of emergency.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've been in the house once the tree started coming down, we couldn't get out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We haven't seen one utility truck, yet. So, when they get here I guess they get here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This storm it's going to take a few weeks to clean up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHO: A heavy rain from the storm system did this to a small airport in Connecticut. If you want to look inside there. Three inches of water seeped into the check-in area of the Tweed New Haven Airport. Workers tried to push and vacuum that water out, but they had little success as you see there. It was messy, but luckily passengers weren't too inconvenienced by all of that. Just one flight was canceled.
In the northwest, the problem is snow. More than a foot of it expected to bury much of that region, today. Blizzard warnings have been issued in several states, including Oregon, Montana and North Dakota. Reynolds Wolf watching it all for us, and that mid section is really what we've got to watch today. It's going to be frigidly cold, there. Isn't it, Reynolds.
WOLF: It truly is.
(WEATHER REPORT)
CHO: Thank you, Reynolds. I'll be watching that as I fly back to New York tomorrow. Thank you very much.
WOLF: Timing is everything.
CHO: Ok, you're right. You're absolutely right about that.
Coming up, Defense Secretary Robert Gates makes a surprise visit to Iraq. We're going to have a live report with our man on the ground, Michael Ware, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHO: Welcome back. Defense Secretary Robert Gates is in Baghdad at this hour. It was a surprise visit and that critical visit comes as the U.S. prepares for a transfer of power and a withdrawal of troops. That trip comes amid a recent spike in violence, too. CNN's Michael Ware is in the Iraqi capital with more for us.
As many people know, Michael, Secretary Gates plans to stay on for at least another year. Commanders on the ground clearly need to know what the Obama administration has planned and especially how to get those troops out safely by 2011. I imagine this is a briefing as much as it is anything else.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, I would imagine so. This will be a concerted back and forth from the commanders in the field to their civilian boss, the secretary, Robert Gates.
Now, when he landed on the ground here at Balad Airbase, just north of the capital, Baghdad, where I'm standing now, Secretary Gates said that the mission was not yet over, and though U.S. troops would start to draw down next year, he said he was nonetheless heartened by president-elect Obama's comments that he would listen to the field commanders to gauge how quickly to pull them home.
Now, he said all of this while he was explaining, not just the crucial phase, he says, is now confronting America in Iraq, but elsewhere in the region, as he was telling why he chose to stay on as secretary of defense.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GATES, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: There are a lot of reasons to accept the President-elect Obama's request to stay on as secretary of defense. Among others, the crucial next phase we're entering here in Iraq, the plus up of forces in Afghanistan, the tough choices in a tough economy, and the Pentagon is going to need to make regarding the budget and priorities, and a wounded warrior care system that still needs more work, but I will tell you that no reason was more compelling to me than the fact that if hundreds of thousands of young Americans are doing their duty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARE: And he told the troops around him at Balad Airbase that that duty will continue. He said the mission was not over, as said, for America's enemies were resilient, he reminded the soldiers, and that the war must continue, even though the mission will change its focus, it has got some way to go -- Alina.
CHO: Michael, I'm just curious, because it has been so widely reported that the Obama administration, of course, keeping in mind that they'll listen to field commanders, want to safely withdraw the troops from Iraq by 2011. How has that affected morale on the ground, there?
WARE: Well, these troops are professionals, and they're going to fight the fight that they have. They're going to continue their patrols, they're going to continue supporting the Iraqi security forces. I mean, I have to be honest, no one's thrilled to be here, not among the 140,000 troops, as secretary Gates said, it's been a long, hard fight. A lot of these guys and girls are coming back now for their second and third, some of them fourth and fifth tours of Iraq. So somehow, morale remains stoic and they're going to get the job done, but they all want to go home. The question is when?
President-elect Obama is looking for 16 months. The dale that Washington's now stuck to signed by the Bush administration says 36 months. Now, where we're going to meet in the middle or not is going to depend on the new administration and what the commanders like General Ray Odierno are telling the new White House -- Alina.
CHO: I know you'll be watching it all for us. Michael Ware, our man on the ground in Baghdad, Michael, thank you.
In Afghanistan, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown says the Taliban used a 13-year-old boy in a suicide attack against British forces. At least three British marines were killed and another British marine was killed in a separate attack. CNN's Atia Abawi is in Kabul with the latest.
Atia, good afternoon to you.
ATIA ABAWI, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Alina. British Prime Minister Gordon Brown did come to Afghanistan today on a visit. His first stop, Hellman Province, where most of Britain's over 8,000 troops are stationed. This comes a day after the two attacks that killed four royal marines. Three of the marines were killed by a reported 13-year-old suicide bomber. This disgust was expressed by Gordon Brown later in Kabul when he had a joint presser with President Humid Karzai. Let's listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GORDON BROWN, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: For the Taliban to engage in such cowardly behavior with means that a 13-year-old young boy is used to kill British troops is something that will offend public opinion, not just in Afghanistan and Britain, but right across the world. My thoughts are with the families of all of those who have suffered this grievous loss.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABAWI: We should mention that the Taliban have denied using a 13-year-old boy. They, in fact, say that was a 26-year-old man who blew himself up, killing those three marines. They say they don't need to go to children to perform these type of attacks, because they have enough of their own men volunteering to fight for the cause -- Alina.
CHO: CNN's Atia Abawi in Kabul for us, live. Atia, thank you.
Coming up, heartbreak for the holidays. A Utah couple nursed a baby back to health, in less than two weeks before Christmas, they're being forced to give him up. We're going to tell you why.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHO: Holiday heartbreak for a Utah couple. Just before Christmas, they will be losing the baby boy that they adopted just this year.
Dan Rascon of CNN affiliate KUTV has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HEATHER LARSON, ADOPTIVE MOTHER: He's our son and they're going to take him from us on Sunday.
DAN RASCON, KUTV REPORTER (voice-over): Heather ...
CLINT LARSON, ADOPTIVE FATHER: I can't believe that it's happened.
RASCON: ...and Clint Larson can't bear to think of what's happening to their 6-month-old boy Tallon (ph) whom they adopted at birth. In two days, they will get a knock at their door and Tallon will taken away from them by court order.
H. LARSON: We've waited five years for a child. They're taking him right before Christmas and it was going to be his first Christmas with us.
RASCON: Turns out Tallon's mother is a member of the Leech Lake band of Ojibway Indian Tribe and according to court records, when she returned home to the reservation in Minnesota after giving birth in Salt Lake, she changed her mind and wants the baby back.
So on Sunday night, the tribe is coming to pick up Tallon who was born sick because his mother was a drug addict, according to the Larsons.
H. LARSON: He was not a well baby and we helped him survive and we didn't bat an eye at the thousands of dollars in medical expenses.
DENISE GARCIA (ph), HEART AND SOUL ADOPTIONS: Shocked and devastated.
RASCON: Denise Garcia who runs Heart and Soul Adoptions says every legal procedure was followed in Tallon's adoption.
GARCIA: Everything was done correctly.
RASCON: The agency and Larsons' attorney argue that Tallon is less than a quarter percent Indian, which means he cannot be claimed or enrolled by the tribal council according to their own constitution. But an attorney for the council says that's not true.
VOICE OF FRANK BIBEAU, TRIBAL COUNCIL'S ATTORNEY: What would be the point of watching out for the parents who's a quarter blood or more and saying we don't care about your children and we'll let other people take your children. Certainly, the child is not the Larsons. The Larsons I don't believe are part Indian at all and this is an Indian child.
RASCON: But to the Larsons, Tallon is their son.
H. LARSON: He's our son. He always will be. Whether they take him on Sunday or not, he will always be our son.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHO: That was Dan Rascon of our CNN affiliate. The tribe claims that the boy was adopted without his father's permission and that the mother signed adoption documents while she was still drugged shortly after the baby's birth.
Other news across America, a shocking story, a deadly bomb explosion in Woodburn, Oregon. Police say officers were called in to investigate a suspicious device at a bank. Well, then it exploded, killing one officer and a state bomb technician. The police chief was seriously injured.
A hostage situation at a prison in Pecos, Texas is now over. Authorities say the inmate set fire to part of the prison yesterday, then they took two employees hostage, demanding better medical treatment. The inmates have released the hostages and they have surrendered.
And a fiery end to a chase in Southern California. Police say officers were going after three robbery suspects. It led to a 20-mile chase on three major highways. Police set out to spike strip or puncture the suspects' tires. When they hit the strip, that chase came to a fiery end. All three are in custody.
Well, his crimes caught the nation's attention. Now, Brian Nichols will spend the rest of his life in prison for a deadly shooting rampage in Atlanta. Today, a judge sentenced Nichols to life with no chance for parole. Nichols killed four people during a brazen courthouse escape three years ago. Many of you remember this, and today, he expressed remorse for those crimes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN NICHOLS, CONVICTED MURDERER: I know that the things that I've done have caused a lot of pain, and I am sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHO: A little hard to hear what he was saying, but clearly saying that he was sorry for those crimes. Nichols was spared the death penalty after jurors failed to reach a unanimous decision on his punishment.
Well, lots of news for our legal guys to chew over today, the embattled Illinois governor, will he resign? And the sad case of Caylee Anthony in Florida, significant development in that case, a child's skeletal remains have been recovered. So, what's next in that case?
Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor, Richard Herman is a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor, as well. You guys are smart.
OK, guys, so, let's start with Governor Blagojevich. In Chicago, they're used to political scandals, but this one seems to take the cake here: governor accused of trying to sell Barack Obama's Senate seat to the highest bidder. The Illinois attorney general interestingly enough trying to forcibly remove him from office using a temporary restraining order.
So Avery, is this going to work?
AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: You know, it's a nice try, Alina, but the fact that the Illinois Supreme Court would grant a temporary restraining order without any evidence using a law, by the way, that's never been used, except if someone is comatose is going nowhere.
CHO: Richard?
RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Alina ...
CHO: OK, go ahead, yes.
HERMAN: ...first of all, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty, because everyone's convicted this guy, it's over and out for him.
CHO: Good point, good point, yes.
FRIEDMAN: Yes.
HERMAN: I mean, all over the place. But having said that, having said that, his previous -- I think the previous three governors before him were all arrested, three of them are in prison. He's now been arrested. He's probably going to be under indictment shortly.
FRIEDMAN: Right.
HERMAN: His chief of staff just retired. There are tapes and there are not so friendly conversations on these tapes that seem to indicate he was looking for something for that seat. It seems to tie President-Elect Obama in somewhat, because his chief of staff Rahm Emanuel ...
FRIEDMAN: Oh, Richard, come on.
CHO: Wait, wait, wait, wait.
HERMAN: Wait, wait. He gave a list of candidates that were acceptable to the president-elect, that's a fact.
FRIEDMAN: Nah. You know ...
HERMAN: This is a big problem going on right now. This has the potential to absolutely implode (ph).
CHO: Richard, I think it's important to point out that Rahm Emanuel, Obama's chief of staff is not a target of the investigation.
HERMAN: Not a target.
FRIEDMAN: Yes, I think that's unfair, it's unfair to smear him, right.
CHO: As our Jessica Yellin -- wait, wait -- yes, that's right. And I think it's important to know, too, that our Jessica Yellin was reporting that it would be entirely plausible that he would contact Governor Blagojevich ...
FRIEDMAN: Sure.
CHO: ...about who might be the successor to Barack Obama in that Senate seat.
FRIEDMAN: Alina, Alina, the ...
CHO: But I think that's important to point out. I want to talk about -- I want to ask you, though, Avery, about Jesse Jackson, Jr.
FRIEDMAN: Right.
CHO: Candidate No. 5, as he's been called.
FRIEDMAN: Right.
CHO: There are accusations of a quid pro quo deal that he allegedly said he might raise $500,000 for Blagojevich.
FRIEDMAN: Right. CHO: And another $1 million through an emissary. Even if all of that is true, of course, he says that he is innocent. Even if all of that is true, is there a crime there?
FRIEDMAN: No, there's not a crime. In fact, there has to be some evidence that Jesse Jackson knew about it. In fact, as we know, we're going to hear our Don Lemon talking about that later on a one- on-one, it's an exclusive. And the fact is, it is not a crime.
The real issue here, Alina, is do we have either a legislative or judicial way of responding? The legislature's going to take 60 days. The Supreme Court is going to do nothing. The truth is, the bottom line is that the governor is going to hold out resigning as a chip when he's indicted by a federal grand jury. That's the issue here.
HERMAN: Here's the problem, Alina, when his chief of staff resigned this week, that put enormous pressure on Blagojevich, because his chief of staff is going to be offered a deal to testify against the governor.
FRIEDMAN: Sure.
HERMAN: Come clean and say everything.
FRIEDMAN: Sure.
HERMAN: If there's any criminality here and the governor will know that, he knows that in his heart, he's going to have to make a move quickly, because the feds are not going to let him drag this thing out.
CHO: OK, guys, I think a lot of people believe that the cleanest way to settle all this is to have Blagojevich resign.
FRIEDMAN: Right.
CHO: Whether he will do that is still an open question.
Avery Friedman, Richard Herman, want to talk about the Caylee Anthony case, but we're going to do that right after the break. See you then.
HERMAN: OK.
FRIEDMAN: OK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHO: Welcome back.
The Caylee Anthony case in Florida took a dramatic turn this week with the discovery of a small child's skull inside a plastic bag, near the Anthony home. Now Caylee, of course, is the little girl who went missing back in June. Her mother waited a month before reporting her missing, and now she is charged with murder in the case. We want to go back to our legal guys, Avery Friedman, civil rights attorney and law professor, Richard Herman, New York criminal defense attorney and law professor.
Right now, guys, investigators are trying to confirm that those skeletal remains are those of Caylee Anthony. Avery, they're also looking for forensic evidence, of course.
FRIEDMAN: Yes.
CHO: And I understand with trash bags and duct tape, there may actually be lot numbers in addition to the brand and make, they may even be able to narrow it down further than that?
FRIEDMAN: Exactly right. In addition, Alina, there are also hair samples and other related issues, but one of the things that surfaced within the past 24 hours is the sheriff's department reports that there is duct tape across the mouth of the skull. If that's true, you couple that with the chloroform evidence. The district attorney has to rethink the question of a death penalty. They said no, they have to rethink that issue now.
HERMAN: Alina, Avery's right and the duct tape is going to provide a lot of information because ...
CHO: Well, yes, because it's also a great surface for fingerprints, right.
FRIEDMAN: Sure.
HERMAN: Yes, when you take a piece of duct tape, and usually you rip it with your mouth off. There's DNA from your mouth, there's a fingerprint that you leave on it, which I'm told will last forever, so it's devastating evidence. Look, they've matched the hair color to Caylee. That was found there. The skeletal remains matched that of a young female child. This is -- I think for all intents and purposes ...
FRIEDMAN: There's your premeditation, Richard, there's your premeditation.
HERMAN: Well, I don't know that we have pre ...
CHO: I want to ask you guys -- Richard, I want to ask you about what this means for the case going forward ...
HERMAN: OK.
CHO: ...with Casey Anthony, the mother of Caylee. She has been charged with murder, which means this is premeditated allegedly, not accidental. She has said just about everything under the sun. She waited a month to report her daughter missing. She said she worked somewhere, where it turned out she didn't work. All kinds of things have been said.
Now with the discovery of what could be Caylee's body, I mean, is this a slam dunk against her?
HERMAN: No way is it a slam dunk, Alina. We still don't know when, where and how this young child was killed. We don't know that. Nobody knows that. It's all speculation still, but obviously it's made the defense case much, much more difficult, having the body found 15 houses away from where she lives.
CHO: Exactly right.
HERMAN: I mean, it's become a much different case right now.
FRIEDMAN: It's emboldened the prosecution. I think -- the district attorney has to be careful. You've got to wait for all that forensic evidence as you mentioned, Alina, to come in, but this is a brand new ball game down in Florida.
HERMAN: You know, Alina, there were issues concerning research on her computer on neck breaking ...
CHO: Exactly.
HERMAN: ...and if the skeletal remains show a broken neck ...
CHO: And look, she apparently allegedly looked into chloroform as well.
FRIEDMAN: Exactly right.
HERMAN: But the skeletal remains will show evidence of a fractured or a broken neck and if that comes up now, wow, I think this case is over and out.
FRIEDMAN: Yes.
CHO: Richard Herman, a New York criminal defense attorney and Avery Friedman, civil rights attorney, and also from my home state.
FRIEDMAN: Oh, that's right.
HERMAN: Hey, I was using your office before, Alina. I was using your office before, Alina.
FRIEDMAN: ...all along.
CHO: Oh, you were? I didn't know that. I wasn't there. Well, you're always welcome. OK, guys, thank you so much.
FRIEDMAN: All the best. See you later.
CHO: We'll see you soon.
Well, if you're a Chicago politician, the one thing you don't want right now is any connection with the governor of Illinois. Just ask Representative Jesse Jackson, Jr.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. JESSE JACKSON, JR. (D), ILLINOIS: I'm fighting now for my character, and I'm also fighting for my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHO: Don Lemon's exclusive interview with the Illinois lawmaker, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHO: Congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr. admits he was interested in filling President-Elect Obama's old Senate seat and he did talk with Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. But Jackson says he never offered anything in return for the appointment.
Now, more of Jackson's interview with CNN's Don Lemon. Here's what Jackson had to say about his talks with Blagojevich.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JACKSON: I presented him my credentials, a notebook, which I am prepared to give anyone a copy of, that has my bio in it, legislation that I've passed, the Rasmussen Poll, the Zogby Poll, how I think I can win in 2010 and how a team of Democrats, because this is about the top of the ticket in 2010, can win a re-election for Democrats in 2010. That's very, very important.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: No discussion at all of quid pro quo or anything like that? Was there a discussion?
JACKSON: I have nothing to offer, nothing to offer but my record of public service. That's how I've conducted myself for 13.5 years and I did that day as well.
LEMON: That's all you discussed?
JACKSON: That's all we discussed.
LEMON: Do you think it's still possible for to you get this job that you want?
JACKSON: Well, let me tell what you I have been doing. The "Sun-Times" ...
LEMON: Do you think it's still possible?
SANDI JACKSON, CHICAGO ALDER-PERSON: We hope so, we hope so.
JACKSON: Well, let me, let me -- before you answer that, let me say that because I respect my wife's opinion on this, I've been fighting corruption in the state of Illinois from day one, for 13 years. The "Sun-Times" in their endorsement of me said Congressman Jackson is the rare official who -- Democratic official who has spoken out against corruption in the state and in the city.
I'm the same person I was when the "Sun-Times" endorsed me for the November 4th general election fighting against corruption. It has stopped businesses from coming to our state at a time when the economy needs help and people need help, corruption in our state has been challenging.
So, on this question of being in the United States Senate, or not, let me be perfectly clear. While I would be honored to serve the people of this state, it is clear to me that I am in no capacity to serve them if there is a cloud over my head that seems to suggest I am involved in some unscrupulous scheme to be a United States senator or to be anything else. And so, it's very important for me to allow this process to play itself out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHO: And join Don Lemon in the CNN NEWSROOM tonight. He will have much more of his exclusive interview with Congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr. That's at 11:00 Eastern, 8:00 Pacific.
A major movie star in the '40s and '50s has died. Van Johnson appeared in numerous films, including "A Guy Named Joe" and "30 Seconds Over Tokyo." A close friend says he died yesterday of natural causes. Van Johnson was 92-years-old.
Well, you may have seen her on "The View" or lately on "Oprah," but Lisa Ling is on our team now as a special correspondent. She, Anderson Cooper and Sanjay Gupta traveled the world for "Planet in Peril," a CNN documentary. Lisa Ling will join us live next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHO: Well, Florida Governor Charlie Crist no longer a single man. Take a look at that. He got married last night, exchanging vows with New York socialite Carole Rome. Friends and family attended the ceremony at a church in St. Petersburg, Florida. Crist is the first sitting Florida governor to tie the knot in nearly 42 years. Congratulations, my old friend.
Well, it's been called the ultimate battle for natural resources. And for the second year in a row, we're taking you to the front lines of the battle. We are talking about our latest installment of CNN's "Planet in Peril."
And Lisa Ling traveled the world with Anderson Cooper and Sanjay Gupta. I believe it was 11 countries on four continents. She joins us now by phone from Los Angeles. Hey Lisa, good to see you or talk to you. I want to talk first about your travels to Nigeria. You took a boat ride with a group that you call a rag tag organization over a big fight over oil. Tell us what you saw.
LISA LING, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: You're right, Alina. I spent time with the M.E.N.D. Organization, the movement for the emancipation of the Niger Delta. And they're group that started about three years ago and their objective is to try and ensure that the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of oil profits that have been generated for Nigeria -- from Nigeria go to the Nigerian people. Unfortunately, since oil was found, all of that money has really not trickled down to the average Nigerian and it's made a lot of people incredibly, incredibly rich. But the average Nigerian has really suffered and it's a country that just lacks even basic services like clean water, and electricity.
So, we got a pretty exclusive interview with this rebel movement, and it was a pretty surreal experience, because these are guys who are very, very well-armed ...
CHO: Yes.
LING: ...and they are notorious for kidnapping oil workers and their attacks on oil pipelines have succeeded in raising the price of oil around the world.
CHO: Yes, I was just going to say, least you think that this does not affect us, you know, those attacks, you'll see a spike in oil prices as a result of that. You must have -- you didn't look scared, Lisa, but you must have been scared at some point when you were there.
Hey, I want to talk about another report that you did within "Planet in Peril" about these sharks being killed, really for their fins. It's called finning, and $1,000 a fin and it's for soup?
LING: That's right. We actually spend quite a bit of time on sharks in "Planet in Peril" and the reason is because sharks are the top predator in the ocean. So, they're being depleted at such a rapid rate and it's completely altering the ecosystem of the world's ocean, and primarily the reason why so many are being killed is for their fins.
And it's because in China, shark fin soup is a delicacy. And, as we all know, China's middle class has been booming and developing more and more of an appetite for this soup. And so, as a result, over the last couple of years, over 100 million sharks have been killed, every single year.
And the reason why that's disturbing is, you know, sharks are so vilified in our culture because of movies like "Jaws" ...
CHO: Right.
LING: ...but man has actually killed tens of millions more sharks than sharks have killed humans.
CHO: Well, and as you mention it, it really affects the ecosystem, as one person told you, I know it's like a brick wall. You take out the bricks and eventually it's going to collapse.
Lisa Ling, fantastic reporting. I know you're tired, so get some rest in Los Angeles. So, we'll be watching tonight again. Lisa, thank you.
And in case you missed even a second of "Planet in Peril: Battle Lines," you can see it again tonight. The encore presentation airs at 8:00 Eastern and remember, you can also get it on iTunes and at Amazon.com. How about that.
Well, first New England, now it's the Northwest feeling the big chill. This is my home, meteorologist Reynolds Wolf covering both coasts, everything in between at the CNN Weather Center.
Hey, Reynolds, what's going on?
(WEATHER REPORT)
CHO: I'm Alina Cho. CNN NEWSROOM returns at 3:00 Eastern. "YOUR MONEY" is next.
