Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Illinois Legislature to Begin Action to Remove Blagojevich; White House Promising Treasury Loan for Big Three; Iraqi Reporter Throws Shoes at President Bush

Aired December 15, 2008 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES (voice-over): How to get rid of a governor and, for that matter, select a Senator. Illinois lawmakers meet today in a power crisis of national proportions.

Now, here's a power crisis. Four straight days in the dark, in the cold in much of New York and New England. The Midwest, Northwest and Plains have their problems, too.

QUESTION: (speaking foreign language)

HOLMES: Hurling shoes needs no translation, but in Iraq, it's the ultimate insult. More fallout from President Bush's farewell visit to Baghdad, his hour.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Hey there, everybody. T.J. Holmes here in the CNN NEWSROOM. Going to get right to the news of the hour, the scandal involving the Illinois governor, Rod Blagojevich. Looking at the Illinois speaker of the house, Mike Madigan. The legislature could take up some action today.

Let's listen in.

MIKE MADIGAN, ILLINOIS SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: ... select committee inquiry concerning the possible impeachment of Governor Blagojevich. Most of you in this room know that over the last two to six years, quite frequently, I have stood in opposition to Governor Blagojevich. Many times alone.

However, my record of opposition to the governor and to the governor's policies and programs will not stand in the way of this committee affording to the governor all of his constitutional rights under the federal and state constitution. Rights such as due process, equal protection under the law, and the right to confront witnesses and to cross examine those witnesses.

There shall be 12 Democrats on the committee, nine Republicans. Given the gravity of the subject matter before the committee, all of the Democratic appointments will enjoy senior status in the house, which means that all of them will have served for at least six terms. Said differently, we will not have anyone appointed as Democrats unless they have six terms. Representative Barbara Curry will serve as the chair of the committee. My counsel, David Ellis, will serve as counsel to the committee. Justice Alan Greiman (ph) will serve as special counsel to the speaker on this subject.

We're going to ask the committee to begin work tomorrow and to work every day except Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day until they have rendered a judgment and put themselves in a position to file a report of their activities.

Questions?

QUESTION: Has it been a process of (INAUDIBLE) instantaneous or real debate?

MADIGAN: As I said, as you're very aware of my record here in the legislature over two to six years, of standing in opposition to Governor Blagojevich.

I know the gentleman very well. I know his record in office. At the same time, I treat today's action as a very significant governmental action of the gravest -- of the gravest consideration. And so I'm not going to be one who's going to rush to judgment about the possible impeachment of a sitting governor of the state of Illinois.

Consequently, we have given the governor six days to resign. President-elect Obama, Senator Durbin, all the state constitutional officers have called for the resignation. He's declined to take the opportunity to resign. I think it's time we move forward with the appointment of a committee of inquiry that could lead to impeachment.

QUESTION: What do you see as the timetable for this? For example, when do you expect to bring (ph) back a decision of impeachment at a trial, should it go that far? What is the rough timetable and how -- second question, how does it relate to the motion filed in the Illinois Supreme Court by the attorney general?

MADIGAN: No. 1, it does not relate to the motion before the supreme court at all. This matter will proceed on its own track. As I said, we're going to ask the committee to meet every day except four.

To fully answer your question, we need to know what will be the reaction of the governor. Will the governor actively appear before the committee himself or through an agent? Will they actively contest matters put before the committee? We have no idea what the answer to that question will be. And the answer to that question would pretty well answer your question, how long will this take.

QUESTION: Mr. Speaker, speaking about the constitutional standard for terms of impeaching the governor, by what standards are you (INAUDIBLE) whether or not the governor (INAUDIBLE)?

MADIGAN: The committee itself will establish that standard, and you're correct. There is no standard in the Illinois constitution. QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

MADIGAN: That would be -- that would be my expectation. The committee would conduct its hearings, do it deliberations, and then file a report with the clerk of the House. That report could call for impeachment. It could call for not impeaching the governor.

QUESTION: Have you spoken to the governor (INAUDIBLE)?

MADIGAN: No, I have not. And I have not called upon the governor to resign, because in effect, I will be presiding over this impeachment inquiry.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

MADIGAN: I'm saying that, in effect, I will be presiding over impeachment, and therefore, I'll have nothing to say as to whether I think he should resign or not.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) ... that you act and act quickly. It appears putting off (INAUDIBLE).

MADIGAN: I think that this action is reflective. I think this action is reflective of the desires of probably a majority of people in the House, probably a majority of people in the state, providing as I said, that the governor will be accorded full rights under the federal and the state constitution.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) ... evidence in this process, secondly, if it's beyond, you know, if it gets out of the House, what exactly is the goal (INAUDIBLE)?

MADIGAN: Our expectation is that we would attach the affidavit of the FBI agent to documents presented to the committee. We planned -- we asked for the cooperation of the office of the United States attorney.

In terms of the Senate, it's my understanding that the chief justice of the supreme court will determine when the proceedings will begin, how they will -- how they will proceed, what the rules will be in the senate.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) You don't have a problem with the -- (INAUDIBLE) and if I may ask if the governor chooses to ask for some temporary leave that won't change. Because once you begin this tomorrow, his action would be immaterial, short of a resignation.

MADIGAN: Let's do one, two, three. So, No. 1, beginning tomorrow, we shall proceed. As I said, the governor has a right to appear before the committee himself. He has a right to send an agent to represent him before the committee.

Concerning the transition from one general assembly to another, our plan is to provide for that on the opening day of the next session of the general assembly, which I believe is January 15, where we will adopt a resolution on that day that will provide that the work of this general assembly will be carried over into the next general assembly.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

MADIGAN: Well, let me just say that we plan to proceed without delay. The governor's in a position to take actions that he deems appropriate for himself, and then the committee will react.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

MADIGAN: Yes, sir?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

MADIGAN: Let's do it this way. We plan to proceed. We will have evidence available to be put into the record before the committee. We'll ask for the cooperation of the office of the United States attorney. And our desire would be that that office would give us whatever information they would deem appropriate to give us for the purpose of the committee hearing.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

MADIGAN: Abuse of power. Abuse of power. The many instances where the governor took governmental action without authority of the legislature, took action without an appropriate appropriation bill having been adopted. Instances where he ignored directives from the legislature.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

MADIGAN: We've been reviewing grounds for impeachment for about a year.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) ... rulings that he went against a couple of other examples (INAUDIBLE).

MADIGAN: Well, as I said, I think all that will come out before the committee. I'll simply decline to go in that direction today.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

MADIGAN: No. As I said, we reviewed impeachment for about a year, and we never came to a judgment that impeachment was appropriate until the events of six days ago.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) ... what do you think you could do now to inform (ph) impeachment that you couldn't have done six months ago, 18 months ago?

MADIGAN: That would depend upon our ability to gather evidence and to get evidence into the record. So remember what I said: we're going to follow the constitutions, federal and state. Due process, equal protection under the law, the right to confront witnesses and cross examine witnesses.

And please understand that we are doing is preparing for a trial in the senate. And so we're going to proceed with all due speed, but we're going to make sure that what we do is done correctly.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

MADIGAN: That will be a judgment for the committee.

QUESTION: Does anything you've done -- does anything you've done here relate to the -- the successor to President-elect Obama? Anything you've done here that would put that issue before and deal with that definitely (ph)? (INAUDIBLE)

MADIGAN: We're going to take that up in our house Democratic caucus this afternoon.

QUESTION: Would you say then that the grounds for impeachment are going to be (INAUDIBLE)?

MADIGAN: I think that depends upon what matters are brought before the committee. I don't think so.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: What's the allegations against the governor -- relate to campaign contributions and pay to play? And you were co-chair of his campaign two years ago. Is that (INAUDIBLE) a conflict (INAUDIBLE)?

MADIGAN: I don't think so.

QUESTION: Why?

MADIGAN: I just don't think so.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) ... your position on special elections and how (INAUDIBLE) that you think is the best for (INAUDIBLE)

MADIGAN: I don't think I understand your question.

QUESTION: In general, was a discussion (INAUDIBLE)?

MADIGAN: I really don't know, and I won't know until I go into the caucus meeting.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

HOLMES: All right, reporters there asking that question now. What you've been listening to is the speaker of the house there of Illinois, Mike Madigan. And the news coming out of this is that the -- they will form an inquiry committee, a committee that will essentially look at the possibility of impeaching the governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich, after he was, of course, accused of trying to sell the senate seat vacated by President-elect Barack Obama.

Now, this committee will recommend whether or not he'll be impeached. They could come back after their findings and say he shouldn't be impeached, or they could recommend some kind of punishment, or whatever. But it doesn't mean necessarily that he will, in fact, be impeached.

Like Madigan said, his committee will get to work immediately. They will work through the holidays. They essentially just won't work on New Year's Eve, New Year's Day, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, but other than that, they will continue their work.

Something else interesting here is that there's no standard, necessarily, about how or what constitutes a crime or something being done by a governor that would warrant impeachment. It's not like with the federal government. High crimes and misdemeanors, as is described in the federal Constitution. Well, in the state constitution there in Illinois, he says there's really no standard. So this committee, essentially, will be coming up with that standard, to find out on their own, and will determine on their own whether or not he's done something they believe is an impeachable offense.

Also, he said they've been reviewing grounds for impeachment for about a year. As we know, Rod Blagojevich has been under the gun from many folks there in Chicago and around Illinois for some wrongdoings and bad dealings behind the scenes, but we've only heard about it on this national scale, this latest scandal, for the past six days or so, when he was accused and arrested by the federal government. But, according to Madigan there, they've been looking at this and the possibility of impeaching him for about a year now.

So committee, no timing on this. No timeline for when we could all possibly see a resolution to this. He also mentioned that, hey, the governor's had six days since this thing happened to do something and not bring us to this point. But here we are, so they're acting.

The last name, Madigan, you might recognize there, because it wasn't too long ago here on CNN you saw live another Madigan, Lisa Madigan, the attorney general of the state of Illinois, coming out, doing essentially what her dad there is doing right now, saying she wants the governor out of there. She moved, she went to the state's supreme court, asking them to move ahead and try to possibly remove -- remove Governor Blagojevich from office.

So a lot of things happening there. Ed Lavandera in the room. We'll probably hear from him a little bit later. But the news there, a committee formed to look at the possibility of impeachment the governor.

Now, this scandal causing and drawing some comparisons to the Watergate scandal. You'll remember that one, of course, President Nixon. Well, the first man to go to prison for a charge related to that Watergate scandal, Chuck Colson, says he knows exactly how Governor Blagojevich feels right now. He'll be telling us about that. He'll join us in the NEWSROOM in just a bit.

Well, GM and Chrysler begin another week on borrowed time, while the Bush administration tries to do what Congress would not do: float two of the Big Three a $15 billion loan to see them through the winter.

President Bush said today that working out the deals -- details, rather, quote, "will not be a long process," given the fragility of the U.S. auto industry.

Michigan Senator Carl Levin says he expects the treasury plan to look a lot like the one that cleared the House but hit a brick wall in the Senate. And Levin says the treasury secretary will likely fill the role of car czar, if you will, overseeing the companies' overhaul.

CNN's Kathleen Koch watching the last-ditch loans take shape from her post at the White House.

Kathleen, we talked about this over the weekend. We've been talking about this for a while. Is it just a matter of time we're going to see this going -- done and need to, you know, cross those "T's" and dot those "I's"?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you mentioned, the president has certainly indicated that, because of the fragility of the automakers, the White House does understand the need to act soon.

And you certainly did mention there the pressure that the White House is coming under from the -- in particular, the Michigan congressional delegation. Senator Carl Levin, the senior senator, holding an impromptu press conference earlier today, basically saying that the president in his opinion has, quote, "indicated" that loans will be provided. And Levin says that, in his opinion, that's really tantamount to a deal the president has made with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to help the automakers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: When we agree to something, we like to keep our word. The president made a -- had an understanding, called it a deal, with the speaker. And I think it's very, very likely that he would not back away from something that he had agreed to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Now, the word from several administration officials here in Washington is not to expect a deal on this today. Treasury Department spokesperson Brookly McLaughlin says, quote, "We are assessing and reviewing the information the companies have provided us. We are briefing the White House on our thinking."

A senior administration official who I spoke with this morning really rebuffed any attempts to try to come up with any of the types of details that Levin discussed in his press conference today, saying these are publicly-traded companies. It would simply be inappropriate to indicate what the White House might do and when, the official was saying, quote, "When we have something to announce, we'll announce it" -- T.J.

HOLMES: That's usually how it goes. All right. Kathleen Koch for us at the White House. Thank you so much.

KOCH: You bet.

ANNOUNCER: You're watching CNN, your severe weather headquarters.

HOLMES: Well, a skier is dead after being buried by an avalanche. She was trapped under several feet of snow and died late yesterday at a Salt Lake City hospital. This happened in an out-of- bounds area at the Snowbird Resort.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVE FIELDS, SNOWBIRD SPOKESMAN: This is open terrain on the east side of our mountain. It's expert terrain that you have to hike to. It's about a ten-minute hike. And it is the -- some of the more advanced terrain we have on the mountain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Again, Snowbird is the name of that resort. It's about 15 miles east of Salt Lake City. They just received a foot of fresh snow from a weekend storm. Officials say the avalanche was unusual because ski patrollers routinely fire and drop explosives to loosen snow before it poses any kind of threat.

Meanwhile, still no power for 400,000 homes and businesses three days after an ice storm in New England and upstate New York. Utility crews from as far away as Michigan and Virginia and Canada working around the clock to get the power back on. And emergency declarations are in place in dozens of cities and towns across that region.

Chad Myers keeping track on what's happening across the country.

Is that stuff melting for them? It's a bad ice storm over the weekend.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, temperatures are in the 50s and 60s, T.J., so melting quickly now. The problem is, there's a lot of ice up on those trees, making power lines, telephone poles, you know, antennas, all kind of things have ice now. And all that ice is melting and falling off. So it's more of a danger to be out walking around today than it was to be out watching those trees and power lines fall down over the weekend.

Memphis, you are under the gun for a significant ice event tonight. I need you to probably get home, to get early out, if you can. The kids are coming home early, if they can, because this is going to be an ice storm tomorrow morning that you're going to be slip sliding.

Look at the temperature: St. Louis, 16; Memphis, 36. So not icing yet, but tonight, you get down to 27 and it will be raining. Rain and 27 never go together very well.

Look at these wind chills. From Fargo, a 37 below. These are current temperatures. Current wind chill is you add in the wind and the temperature, and that's what it feels like. Pouring, just that air completely out of the north. And that's the cold air that's going to cause that wind chill and going to cause that ice event, too, all the way from Arkansas, all the way up, almost on up into about the Ohio Valley.

Another thing going on right now, into L.A. This is a mess. We even have a report now of a part of a roof coming down of a school in Anaheim because of all the water on top of this. This has been 3.5 to four inches of water in these areas over the past couple of hours, the last 12 hours.

And now we're also seeing some of those burn areas, some of those burn areas that got -- obviously were on fire a couple weeks ago. Well, you don't have the plants and the structure to hold those mud slides up, and that water will continue to come down and so will the mud.

KTLA, our affiliate there in L.A., showed us these pictures about an hour, hour and a half ago. The rush hour in L.A. this morning has been an absolute mess and will continue to be as such. As long as you have water coming down like that, and the drainage not doing so well.

That old song, it never rains in Southern California, and you know the rest of it there, T.J.

HOLMES: Yes, we see the rest of it.

MYERS: It pours.

HOLMES: Chad Myers for us. We've got a lot more to talk to you about. We'll talk to you again soon, buddy.

Well, it's the video that you've probably seen by now. This wasn't what President Bush was expecting on his final visit to Iraq. Not tossing questions at the president at a press conference. It was shoes, as a month before he leaves office, the president in this visit.

Now, this might seem a bit strange and insulting, but would you know, this is one of the ultimate insults in the Arab world. We'll show you how this happened and how the president responded to it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, President Bush is heading home now after making a farewell visit to U.S. troops in Afghanistan today. The president landed at Bagram Air Base earlier today. He talked with the troops and told them he was going to miss being their commander in chief.

Mr. Bush also met with Afghan President Hamid Karzai. He also reaffirmed the U.S. commitment to Afghanistan. No word if any foot apparel was tossed at him on that trip to Afghanistan.

Different story in Iraq. He met there earlier with troops. Pretty bizarre encounter there in Baghdad at a news conference. He was with Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki when a man got up and tossed his shoes at the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: You can see that the president was able to dodge both of those shoes. Now, the man is an Iraqi reporter. He is in custody right now and may face assault charges.

Now, hitting someone with a shoe is a sign of contempt in the Iraqi culture. Our Michael Ware has more on the...

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In Iraq, it was the morning after the American president had to duck for cover.

(voice-over) When an Iraqi journalist at a press conference threw his shoe, the height of insult in his culture, at the American president, opinions were divided the next day here on the ground. Evenly, people split between those who supported his actions, a fierce protest, saying President Bush deserved no less, were opposed by those who condemned the action, not because President Bush did not deserve it, but that the journalist should not have done it in front of the Iraqi prime minister and embarrassed him.

Also, it seems to be universally accepted among Iraqis today that the journalist should not be sitting in a jail, and popular opinion appears to sympathize with his sentiment, if not his methods.

And indeed, in his home neighborhood of Sadr City, hundreds took to the streets in angry protest, setting American flags ablaze, and calling for the journalist's release.

(on camera) This is almost certain to be one of the most lasting images of this war, and that will become part of the legacy of this American administration.

Michael Ware, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Well, we have some new and astounding numbers to share with you. But, a lot of homeowners already know these numbers.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

HOLMES: So, whose turn is it now to stand next to Barack Obama at the podium? He continues to fill out his transition team.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, you may have thought Barack Obama was already elected president. Not really. The real voting takes place today. The official thing happens when the electors from every state in the country gather today in their state capitals to cast their ballots. Remember, it's the electoral college system that's mandated by the Constitution. So, on November 4th, when you went out there and voted, you were actually voting for those electors. Now, those electors, Obama, for him, he got 365 of them. John McCain, 173. Now, those electors are the ones that will be going and voting today, making it all official. It takes 270 electoral votes to win the White House.

Right now, 10 states are reporting total and Barack Obama leads 35 to John McCain's 30. But again, just a formality and this will all work out. But, it's going to be official today.

Well, when Barack Obama actually does officially get to the White House, energy and global warming are going to be two key concerns when he gets there. Now, a short time from now, he's expected to announce his choices for energy secretary and climate czar. CNN's Brianna Keilar joins us now from Chicago.

Brianna, hello to you. A climate czar?

BRIANNA KELIAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A climate czar. That's kind of a new sounding position, isn't it? Yes. Well, we're expecting President-elect Obama to make these key announcements, basically of his energy and environment team, including making official two picks that CNN first reported last week. Steven Chu for Energy Secretary and Carol Browner for this position of climate czar.

Now, Chu is a Nobel winning physicist. Very well respected in energy circles. Browner was actually the administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency under former President Bill Clinton. As you noted T.J., energy and in particular, green jobs, really a big push for Obama.

He actually has said that he wants 2.5 million new jobs by 2011. And one of the ways he's trying to, or says that he will go back doing this is by making public buildings more energy efficient and by increasing alternative sources of energy.

This is quite a tough campaign promise to fulfill though because he said that he wants to put in $150 billion towards clean energy over 10 years. You're going to be hearing some of this today, T.J., but of course, you're also going to be hearing a little bit about Governor Blagojevich. If not from Senator -- President-elect Barack Obama, from the reporters there at this press conference here in a couple of hours. His last press conference, three of the four questions he got from reporters were about this scandal. And we're probably going to see more of that today.

HOLMES: Well, we will be watching closely when that does happen.

Brianna Keilar for us in Chicago. Thank you so much.

Speaking of Blagojevich and that whole scandal, we were watching just a short time ago as we saw that the Illinois State Legislature now moving forward for the possibility of impeaching the governor. Our Ed Lavandera was in that room -- still in that room where that press conference took place.

Ed, a couple of things jumped out here. They're about to move, but it doesn't appear that they'll be moving too quickly.

ED LAVENDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, in fact, one of the things that kept coming up for people who have been covering the state capital here in Illinois for some time was the example of another impeachment proceeding with a state supreme court justice that had taken place. And that process has taken three months.

Clearly, that's going to come at the expense what a lot of people in this state capital are asking for, which is something of quick resolution. And that doesn't appear -- you know, we gave the speaker of the House here many opportunities to call for the governor's resignation and he did no do that. He did not come out with any stance on the issue.

The other issue that legislators here are going for, which is the issue of a special election. All of these issues being thrown out there to kind of move this process along, which many lawmakers here in Springfield would like to see a quick resolution as to who will be able to appoint the next senator from Illinois. But the House Speaker here, appointing a committee to begin these impeachment proceedings. And that will take weeks if not several months -- T.J.

HOLMES: Weeks, if not months. That's not how they want to proceed here. And Ed, something else that came up. And they talked about, there's no real standard for this. Their Constitution does not lay out exactly what the grounds are for impeachment.

So this committee has a lot of leeway and maybe all the leeway in deciding whether or not what they think what the governor has done is an impeachable offense.

LAVENDERA: Right. And that's why we heard several members from the committee saying, that that was their reason for not coming out and calling for the governor's immediate resignation.

They say that the way this is handled and how this will move forward will be precedent setting, so it needs to be done under that (INAUDIBLE). That they said this isn't just about this particular governor. This will be looked at in perhaps cases ahead. So, almost kind of funny that they expect other cases like this to come forward. But perhaps that's just the way Illinois politics works -- T.J.

HOLMES: Well, we're finding out a lot about how Illinois politics works these days.

Ed Lavendera for us there in Chicago. Ed, we appreciate you.

Well, are you normal? Are you neurotic? We're talking about shoppers here. What your behavior at the mall reveals about who you are.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HOLMES: All right. You got 10 days to get that shopping done. And when it comes to that gift giving, what kind of shopper are you? Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen here with us now. People actually doing some research on this.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right.

HOLMES: Some scientists thought this was an important issue we need to tackle.

COHEN: That's right. An economist who likes to study consumer psychology, he came up with all these -- you know, it's an interesting mixture. He came up with these personality profiles and he says that what kind of shopper you are, tells you something about your mental state.

I guess shopping is kind of an emotional experience sometimes. So, there's the normal shopper. You spend less than you earn. That's a good thing. You save for the future and you do prudent planning. That's one category. Another category, the neurotic shopper. This person spends an excessive amount of time shopping for that one perfect thing. They are perfectionist. And the one thing though, is that they don't overspend. So, that's good. So, they spend within their means but they get sort of neurotic about it.

HOLMES: That might be me.

COHEN: Might be you? OK.

HOLMES: Yes, neurotic. I'm neurotic?

COHEN: You're a little -- it's OK to be neurotic. There's nothing wrong with being -- Woody Allen made a career of it. It's fine.

And then, there is the compulsive shopper. OK. This is where things get bad. They spend money that they don't have. They go on binges and they're so sort of embarrassed afterwards that they spent all of this money that they can't pay for, that they actually hide their purchases from their loved ones.

OK. So you think that you're a one or two, or a little of each?

HOLMES: Maybe. I take the time to get the perfect gift. I don't spend all the time in the store, but I make sure I'm thoughtful about it in exactly what I'm getting and I go in and get the perfect thing.

COHEN: That's good.

HOLMES: Yes, I do.

COHEN: That's good. OK. So, you're pretty much a one, with maybe a two moment every so often.

HOLMES: I have a two moment every now and then. COHEN: That's not so bad.

HOLMES: Now, what happens when these people -- these neurotic ones, these twos, threes and fours, get a hold of yourself. But, the folks who really have an issue here, can you help them out? Is there any way to intervene and to get them to break some of these really bad habits that get them in trouble?

COHEN: Yes. You know, you joke about two, three and four. There actually is a fourth category. And those are people who are really in trouble. They're addicted to shopping the way some people are addicted to drugs. And they get into huge financial trouble because of it.

So, what -- oh, shopportunistic. I love that. Who made that up? And what those people need to do is they need get help. One form of help is sort of a a support system. It's called Spender Menders. And these are folks, in the same way that alcoholics get together at AA meetings.

HOLMES: Oh, wow.

COHEN: These people get together and say, hi, my name is Susie (ph) and I'm a shopaholic.

HOLMES: Wow. It's serious. So it really does.

COHEN: So, there's help out there.

HOLMES: There is help out there. And what are you? You never told us. One, two --

COHEN: I'm a one with a flash of a two. I think you and I are probably pretty similar.

HOLMES: OK. We're all about there.

All right. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much. That's interesting. I learned something about myself today.

Well, here's some news that teenagers will like. There's a new study out there that says teens could benefit from sleeping in a little longer and starting school a litter later. I've been screaming this for years. Actually, from about 13 to 19, I was screaming this.

Experts say teenagers need 8to 10 hours of sleep, compared to about 6 to 8 hours recommended for adults. Researchers at the University of Kentucky say teens who got more sleep, well they actually had better attendance and performance rates at school. They also had fewer car accidents. So, teenagers take that to your folks.

Well, he was caught in the middle of a political scandal that ultimately sent him to prison. Now, a former President Nixon aide Chuck Colson, is speaking out about Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. And he will speak out with us, live right here in the CNN NEWSROOM next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: A prominent politician caught on tape using expletive- filled language -- cussing in other words -- and allegedly plotting to use his power illegally. The case of Illinois governor, Rob Blagojevich, is evoking comparisons to President Richard Nixon's Watergate scandal.

Even Blagojevich himself talked about it the day before he was arrested. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: And those who feel like they want to sneakily and -- wear, you know, taping devices, I would remind them that it kind of smells like Nixon in Watergate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Well, the Watergate scandal ultimately led to Nixon resigning the presidency, and the man on the left in this picture, that is his aid, Chuck Colson, actually went to prison on charges that were related to Watergate in 1974. Colson was released seven months later. His famous jailhouse conversion led him to start Prison Fellowship, a Christian outreach to prisoners. Colson recently wrote a commentary on CNN.com saying that he knows how Governor Blagojevich feels. Colson joining me now live from Naples, Florida.

Sir, thank you so much for being here.

You say you know how Rod Blagojevich feels. How does he feel?

CHUCK COLSON, FOUNDER, PRISON FELLOWSHIP: I sure do. It's like the bottom of the world has dropped out and you're there all by yourself and you're trying to make your case but nobody wants to listen to you. That's the most frustrating position a person can be in.

HOLMES: Now what happened to him along the way? Surely there was somewhere where he knew he was getting in deeper and deeper if some of these things are true. Why is it that -- you know, we've seen scandals like this over time. And people just scratch their heads, why would he do this? A guy who rose to these heights.

So what is it about him and politicians and people like yourself even, like you explained, that just can't stop?

COLSON: When I went to the White House, I was the most self- righteous guy in American. I learned Puritan values from my dad. I'd made a lot of money practicing law, I put it all in a blind trust. I wouldn't accept gifts. Nobody was ever going to compromise me. I ended up going to jail.

You're blinded by power. You're in that position where you think you're immune to the normal rules of life and you really get very self-righteous. Everybody is telling you how important and powerful you are.

So I know exactly what the governor has gone through. I know exactly what's in his mind right now. All I can really hope for him, T.J., is that he has the same experience I do. Because I look back now and say, thank God I went to prison. I'm a different human being as a result of it. I see life differently. So this may turn out to be a great blessing for him.

HOLMES: And Mr. Colson, unfortunately, is that what it takes sometimes, to hit rock bottom and to fall from grace in this kind of way, before someone finally gets it together?

COLSON: Sure. Every single one of us, you, everybody I meet, everybody in politics, we think we're the center of the universe. It takes something in life which breaks ourselves -- we're convicted of who we really are. We understand that we're centers in need of grace. And when you come to God and you find that peace that passes all human understanding, then you're just a better person. You -- you live a much more fulfilled life.

But, yes, it does take a breaking experience, particularly in a culture today that we live in which exalts the self; the imperial self is the most powerful force in the world today. And we're told that on every side.

HOLMES: And sir, you spoke there about how you went to the White House. You were -- you made sure -- and you wanted to make sure -- that you were not corruptible. But it ends up, of course, like you admit, you got wrapped up in this whole thing and that self-conceit you talk about.

Are all politicians, and this is a scary thing to think about -- are they all, no matter how wonderful and great we think they are, are they all susceptible and in some way corruptible?

COLSON: Of course; they're all human beings. And all human beings are corruptible.

I believe in the original sin, the fall of mankind. We are disposed -- and I have been dealing with inmates now for 35 years -- we are disposed not to the good, we're disposed to the evil. And it takes something to restrain us, it takes something to break us. And the more powerful you are, the more dangerous you are to yourself.

So I know exactly what the governor is going through. I know what's going through his mind right now. He's got to let go.

First of all, I don't think we should rush to judgment. The man is entitled to a trial before we start throwing him out. And I know what that felt like, too, because a lot of things I'd said were taken out of context. I know that he's feeling abused, and probably he is. So give him a fair chance to make his own case.

But if he -- if he comes to terms with himself, repents, he's got a great future ahead of him. If he doesn't he's just going to be miserable. HOLMES: Well last thing here -- and I guess it's kind of scary for people to hear that, but you're right. All -- we are human beings, we all can make mistakes, we're all susceptible as we say.

But what kind of person does it take to get certainly to the White House and to have all that type of power, not just for the president himself but those around him, have a certain level and degree of power, but those in state houses, those in state legislatures, those in governor's houses -- what kind of person does it take and what does it take to keep from being corrupted?

COLSON: I've met thousands of politicians and every one is driven by ego. You don't go into politics unless you think you're good enough for it. You fight hard to get to head an office. So it's that kind of a person who's the hardest one to see himself honestly.

Pride is the terrible sin that we see in others but never in ourselves. And the more you're in high public office, the more you are susceptible to this because people are constantly coming to you, hearing the cheer of the crowd, the adulation. And that's a very toxic mix. The only people I've seen that have really made it in politics without being corrupted or ruined -- Ted Stevens, for goodness sakes, I knew him when he was an aide to President Eisenhower. A great young man. But he just stayed in the game too long.

HOLMES: Wow.

COLSON: You have to either be a strong Christian, with a strong moral compass, or don't stay too long. That's why I favor term limits. Get them out of there, because the place corrupts you.

HOLMES: Wow.

COLSON: And we've seen over the last -- regardless of politics, Republicans and Democrats have disappointed me hugely in the Congress over the last 10 years. It's become just the -- it's become the hand maiden of K Street lobbyists. So, I think we need to clean house, frankly. And maybe this governor's case will lead to some others.

HOLMES: Well clean house.

Chuck Colson, you have been there, you know it. So some lessons and some tough talk there for the politicians and maybe some lessons there for all of us to hear.

Again, Chuck Colson, sir, we appreciate your time. And we know you've got some -- we can call it expertise in this particular topic. But we appreciate you being here today.

COLSON: Listen, if there was hope for Chuck Colson, there's hope for anyone.

HOLMES: There's hope for anybody. All right. We'll take that with us.

Thank you so much, sir.

COLSON: Thank you.

HOLMES: Well, a lot of people were familiar with Jeff Foxworthy. You might be a redneck if. Well, watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: You might be a redneck if it you have "Oversize Load" on the back of your car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: This is the Christmas parade like none you have ever seen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, got a Christmas festival to show you here. This ain't like granny's Christmas festival, unless granny, of course, is a redneck.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: ... Well I guess the try and the tool box and stuff, you know. Got the tool box to put all your candy in it and all that stuff, the presents. And got the tree drilled down to the roof. Pretty nice. I think we did pretty good on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Yes. I grew up in Arkansas. I've never even seen anything like that. This is a town in Florida, actually, in the panhandle. It does this around the holiday time. Instead of eggnog and caroling, they've got a mullet toss, a cow patty bingo and a parade of less than hot hot rods. Thousands of people -- they do have thousands -- come together for this thing. It's a festival they have every single year.

You think that was something, just wait until you see the next hour of the CNN NEWSROOM -- right now.