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Mississippi Mystery Death; President Bush Talks Recession
Aired December 18, 2008 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Here is what is making news right now.
The man accused of allegedly molesting his 9-year-old stepdaughter works at a school. And it was that girl's letter to Santa that landed him in jail. Were other children abused? We are there.
EDWARD GENSON, ATTORNEY FOR BLAGOJEVICH: This is "Alice in Wonderland"?
SANCHEZ: "Alice in Wonderland"? Blagojevich's pit bull lawyer tries to chew up his impeachment committee. You will see this confrontation play out for yourself. But who is right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a fine player. He had a lot going for himself.
SANCHEZ: Did this superstar student shoot himself during a routine traffic stop? We have sent one of our own to Mississippi to investigate, because we want to know.
PASTOR RICK WARREN, AUTHOR, "THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE": But we do not believe in the separation of faith and politics.
SANCHEZ: It is OK for Obama to talk to these guys, but not this guy? And they don't want him to speak at the inauguration. Why do some on the left see him as the enemy? Is that fair?
Lunchtime in Tacoma, 2:00 p.m. in Biloxi, your comments on the air, and on the Web. This national conversation begins right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Why Biloxi? Because we have got that hot Mississippi story that we're going to be telling you about.
But, first, the president of the United States uses the D-word, D as in depression. You can only imagine what the business sector in this country is saying about it, and how about investors?
So, here is what we are going to do, because you know this is going to be often quoted. We're going to be joining Susan Lisovicz in just a little bit to see how Wall Street investors are reacting to the president's direct quote using the word depression to describe this.
As you can see, the market is down.
First, though, there is more information coming in on the Caylee Anthony case. We have been following this story, because there seems to be a trickle of information, and this time it is John Walsh who is saying that he is convinced that the mom, Casey, did it.
We have also just learned that the FBI has been at the scene until late, in fact -- quote -- "very late last night."
Mike Brooks is our law enforcement analyst. He's here with me now to break this down.
First, the John Walsh comment, how powerful, how important is that?
MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, we know what John Walsh has been through. And just recently, the case against his son, Adam, was just closed.
So, I think him weighing in means a lot to people, and people listen to what he has to say.
SANCHEZ: Is this like the worst-kept secret in the state of Florida.
You and I have talking about this.
BROOKS: Sure.
SANCHEZ: I mean, I have been a cop beat reporter for many years and you have been a cop for many years. When you have this much activities, this many people being so careful about what is going on, including investigators, police officers, lawyers, et cetera, there is something going on.
BROOKS: Yes, there is something going on, Rick.
And right now they are working on two things. They are working on an identification of the remains of that little girl, and they have said now that it is a little girl.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: If it's there, they should have had that by now.
BROOKS: Well, they want to make sure that they cross all of T.'s and dot all the I.'s, Rick, because the FBI has the remains and they are going to come down and then they're going to let the parents know before they make any public announcement.
SANCHEZ: And the FBI was there last night, late last night.
(CROSSTALK) BROOKS: The Orange County and the FBI's evidence response team -- I was just talking to Natisha Lance, who said basically the only thing going on last night, they were there late into the night, and she was told that they were using a blue light. And she said, what is a blue light?
What they do is -- and I was a member, I was a team leader of a team just like this on the scene there. And what they use, you use a blue light, they call it an alternate light source with orange goggles. And what you usually look for are hairs and fibers, fibers from a rug, fibers from sheets, fibers from inside of a car, anything at all, because they will illuminate using the alternate light sources and different filters.
SANCHEZ: Interesting. We're going to be joined by Ashleigh in just a moment. Ashleigh Banfield is going to be joining us.
In fact, let me know, Chris, as soon as she is available. She has got some information also having to some with some duct tape.
But I want you to take a look at some of the video that has been coming in from this investigation. Go ahead and run that, Roger, if you possibly can.
And you're going to see in this investigation that they are doing things that they don't normally do in investigations like this. You will see a bevy of investigators. They're going through trees. They're going through some of the brush in the area. What are they doing?
BROOKS: Oh, yes.
Rick, what they did, they grid off an area. What they do, they take the area and actually grid it off. And then they cut the little grids and they will scoop down a couple inches and take the soil, and then they will go through with sifters and find anything they can, little pieces of bone, possibly teeth that they are finding there, too.
And what they will do, if they find it, they will say, OK, we found this particular piece of item in this grid. And they will get a GPS reading, because if it comes down to court, if they find any piece of evidence, they will take that to court and they will be able to put a big chart out to show the jury exactly where that piece of evidence was found and recreate the scene for the jury.
SANCHEZ: But a lot of people are looking at this and they're saying, my gosh, this is an enormous investigation. The FBI is involved, the state is involved, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement is involved, the attorney.
I mean, there is so much going on with this case.
Ashleigh Banfield, I understand you just got to the set now. Ashleigh just concluded her own show as you know on truTV. I understand from a conversation you had via electronic mail just a little while ago that there may be some fresh information on duct tape as well which may have an impact on the mother, Casey Anthony.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, TRUTV ANCHOR: Right.
And, listen, I don't want to read too much into this, but let me give you a bit of feel for what I have been able to put together here. There is a report that has come from one of the local news stations down there about a person who is sort of following this case moment by moment months ago on Facebook noticed there were comments made between Casey and a friend about Casey borrowing her friend's duct tape and returning it, and not using it all up.
Well, that is significant. She says she printed the page off at the time. She has turned it over to investigators. But, Rick, I want to tell you something about forensics that maybe a lot of people don't know. Along side of that garbage bag (AUDIO GAP) striations and garbage bags can actually pinpoint them like they have their own Social Security number, and you can find out what lot they come to and if they belong to the bag in the bottom of your sink.
The same sort of thing can be said about duct tape. Believe it or not, there is a forensic expert who testified in a trial that one of our employees who is actually a prosecutor attended and was a part of who was an expert in duct tape.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, what you're saying...
BANFIELD: It has an imprint. You can tell from duct tape.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Where it was bought, for example? You mean, like, for example, where it was bought?
BANFIELD: It could be where it was bought. It's more likely to be what the lot was.
SANCHEZ: I see.
BANFIELD: So, for instance, if you can get the exemplar, meaning get duct tape out of someone's house, you can compare it to the duct tape that is found on a body to find out if it comes from the same roll or at least the same lot.
And there is a person who actually specializes in duct tape forensics, so if they can do this, if they can actually get that sample, they could get that kind of forensics information from it.
SANCHEZ: And, quickly, for a lot of people who have not followed this story as closely -- and we are down to about 10 to 20 seconds to finish this off -- why is duct tape important? Why is it relevant in this particular case?
BANFIELD: Oh, it is just a wealth of information. Everything sticks to duct tape, fingerprints, samples, hair, fibers, anything that can identify who handled it.
SANCHEZ: And have they found duct tape in either Casey's car or anywhere else?
Mike?
BROOKS: Yes, they have found it on some of the plastic bags and there was also apparently duct tape around the skull.
SANCHEZ: Good to know. All right.
Ashleigh -- Brooks and Banfield once bringing us the very latest on the story which a lot of people think is just moments from really breaking, and I think they are just kind of putting their ducks in a row. You agree?
BROOKS: Just a matter of time.
SANCHEZ: All right. Thanks so much to both of you.
By the way, the president of the United States uses the D-word in an interview that he did today. He says depression. It obviously made a lot of people in the United States, especially in the business sector, take a large gulp.
Also, you are not going to believe what is going on in Chicago in the Blagojevich case. It is his attorney now taking on and trying to chew up that impeachment committee. In fact, I want to leave you with this sound.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENSON: What I am saying is that the issue in this case is the evidence that you have. The evidence you have is nil, zero, nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We haven't tried a case. We are getting evidence now.
GENSON: This is not evidence, and that is my argument, if you will let me finish.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
We have a lot of stuff to get to, so let's try and get to it as best we can.
First of all, I just got this tweet moments ago here in Twitter which I think is kind of fascinating.
This is what it says: "I believe that Casey has been notified that it is Caylee. That is the reason her pastor showed up. They have just not told the public. Now, that is interesting, because this conversation about the pastor is relevant."
Ashleigh, I want to bring you back. I know we thought we were done with that segment, but I do want to ask you this question about this pastor. Has he been called to the jail to see the mother, Casey?
BANFIELD: Yes, it is Reverend Shane Stutzman, and he was asked by the jail to come see her, not by the family, but by the jail. He apparently had that visit after the well-known meltdown now when she was notified of remains.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Does it imply any culpability on her part as a result of something or is this a normal thing?
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: No, listen, she has got a missing child, and so remains were found. It's not unusual that a pastor would be called in.
But he did say this. They did not go into the gruesome findings. That's not his role, he said. I know, as pastor, I am going to be there to help them no matter what.
He did say this, though, that Casey remains hopeful, but he didn't say what about.
SANCHEZ: Interesting. What else you got, before we let you go? We have got a couple of other things we want to get to.
BANFIELD: Yes, a couple legal filings there of significance. The defense team is pushing hard, Rick, to get into this discovery process. They are asking not only now to be able to go through all of the dirt and debris and findings once the investigators have gone through it, but now they are also asking to go through the dumps and piles of debris that have just been moved to other locations. So they want to get their fingers into every aspect of this criminal investigation as soon as they can.
SANCHEZ: Ashleigh Banfield, truTV, all over it. We thank you, Ashleigh. Good to see you. We will look for you again tomorrow.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: President Bush says some things today that a lot of people are wondering whether he might end up regretting. Should you be talking about something like a depression at this particular point in time? And what is the reaction going to be?
First things first. Let's hear what the president had to say. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was in the Roosevelt Room, and Chairman Bernanke and Secretary Paulson, after a month of, you know, every weekend where they're calling, saying, "We've got to do this for AIG or this for Fannie and Freddie," came in and said, "The financial markets are completely frozen. And if we don't do something about it, it is conceivable we will see a depression greater than the Great Depression."
And so I analyzed that and decided I didn't want to be the president during a depression greater than the Great Depression or the beginning of a depression greater than the Great Depression. So we moved and moved hard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: How many times did he use the word depression in that statement? And was it necessary? And what effect will is it going to have on Wall Street, for example? What is the business sector saying?
Susan Lisovicz is joining us now.
Susan, I almost think -- I'm not in your world -- you get this more than I do -- that there may have been people in that building where you are today who may have cringed when they heard this.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, actually, I don't think so, Rick.
And the reason why is because we have heard it before. We have heard it from none other than Ben Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, who is a scholar on the Great Depression and who has been one of the leaders saying, if we don't do something, which is what the president is referring to...
SANCHEZ: But hold on. That was at a time when they were trying to get a certain legislation passed and trying to get the American people around it. Now that it has been passed, is it necessary for the president to be using that kind of language, or is it too alarming to the point where it could cause damage?
LISOVICZ: Well, I think the president is defending the decisions that have been made, and they are extraordinary decisions, everything from, you know, pushing the TARP package -- it's $700 billion -- the government taking shares in financial companies, publicly-traded companies, the Federal Reserve buying mortgage-backed assets, dropping short-term interest rates, you saw this week, to close to zero this week. These are extraordinary measures because of this crisis.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You're right. And the jury is still out on some of those measures, by the way.
But let me ask you this. If we were to interview Bernanke and if we were to interview Paulson right now and put them on the record, would they say, yes, that is exactly what I told the president, that this is going to as bad or worse than the Great Depression? Would they say that? LISOVICZ: I'm not sure that they would use that language. They might be a little bit more careful with the language, but I think they had to make everybody come on their side and realize the imminent collapse of the financial system, because that is what was happening. In mid-September, credit seized up.
And you are seeing that play out today, Rick. Right now, GM and Ford shares are down at least 10 percent. Why did Chrysler shut down for a month? Because it says potential buyers can't get access to credit. So it is a lingering problem. And that is when unemployment, that's when job cuts really started in earnest. It was mid-September.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But let's be fair. They are shutting down because there's a whole bunch of cars out there that they can't sell. And when you have too much inventory, you have got to stop making that inventory, so stop producing for a little while and then maybe demand will catch up, right?
LISOVICZ: Well, easier said than done.
But if you have some people who want to buy their cars and can't get access to the credit, it just adds fuel to the fire.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: All right. This is enjoyable.
Susan Lisovicz, thanks so much. Enjoyed the conversation.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: By the way, how about this story? Rick Warren is chosen by Barack Obama, and he is reaching out to be part of the inauguration. But there are some on the political left who say, how dare you, Barack Obama, do that?
This raises an interesting question. It was Obama who said he is willing to talk to our enemies, but now he is not allowed to talk to Rick Warren? What do you think? We will be talking to somebody on the political left when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez here at the world headquarters of CNN.
Barack Obama has chosen Pastor Rick Warren, a social conservative, to be a part of his inauguration. He is going to be doing the invocation. And some on the political left are furious about this. They feel like they have been betrayed by Barack Obama for this decision.
In fact, here is what Hilary Rosen had to say last night on "A.C. 360." Listen up. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Every gay person who paid attention to this today felt like we were kicked in the stomach. This is just kind of outrageous that you would choose such a divisive figure to speak out in a blessed prayerful moment at a day of bringing the country together. I think it's kind of an outrageous mistake on the part of the Obama campaign.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Roland, of all of the pastors to choose from, why choose someone controversial?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: How about choosing Reverend Jeremiah Wright who supports the issue of gay marriage? Obama believes in marriage is between a man and woman. Is that controversial?
Not only that, you have two people who are speaking today who are preachers. You have Rick Warren who is against gay marriage, giving the invocation. You have the Reverend Joseph Lowery who is for gay marriage, giving the benediction.
ROSEN: This is not a policy difference. This is not even about gay marriage. That could be a political or policy difference that obviously Barack Obama has with many gay and lesbian people. This is about the way that Pastor Warren has used homosexuality as a weapon, that he uses religion as a weapon to suggest that gay relationships are akin to -- and pedophilia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And it's still probably going on.
Firedoglake is a Web site, a very popular Web site, by the way, well very put together, clean, good-looking Web site. Here is what they had to say.
We checked. Listen to this. I think we can put it up for you.
"Rather than having faith in his own message of change and believing that the country we are ready to move past Warren's kind of hate-mongering, Obama chose the cynical politician's move of flattering him, and giving him a high-profile gig."
Jane Hamsher wrote that. She is at firelakedog. Did I get that right? Firedoglake.com.
Jane, thanks so much for being with us.
JANE HAMSHER, FIREDOGLAKE.COM: Thanks for having me here today, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Here is what a lot of people would wonder about.
Many people said, this guy Obama is doing the right thing. He is willing to talk to our enemies. He is willing to sit down and reach the other side. He is willing to talk to the opposition.
And the moment he reaches out to what appears to be the wrong other side, at least in the views of the political left, you are badgering him for doing so. Is there not something somewhat inconsistent, maybe even hypocritical, about that comment?
HAMSHER: Well, inclusiveness does not mean inviting any old hate-monger up on to the stage. I mean, if that was the case, then why not have the grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan up there?
SANCHEZ: So, you are saying this pastor is worse than Ahmadinejad, worse than Chavez?
HAMSHER: Well, this pastor has equated homosexuality with incest and pedophilia? Yes, gay people take that very personally. I don't think that that would be acceptable.
If he really wants to preach inclusiveness, then why not have somebody up there, a pastor who represents inclusiveness, and isn't trying to build his political power by alienating and victimizing people who are gay?
SANCHEZ: But don't you understand how, as the president of the entire country now, he may be making the argument that, I need to reach out to the evangelicals? Right now, we do have a divided country, where some people in some of the red states and blue states are so far apart, and this may be a way of trying to bring them together.
And, you know, Roland Martin's point is a good one. He says he also has a guy on there who is pro-gay rights by having Joe Lowery on there on the same day.
HAMSHER: Well, I don't think this is one of those issues where you can say both sides are equal.
Rick Warren is a bigot. He's a homophobe who has preached, lied, in fact, in order to get Proposition 8 in California passed.
SANCHEZ: Here is what Obama had to say today. I want you to listen to it. This came in about three hours ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: And that dialogue, I think, is part of what my campaign's been all about: That we're not going to agree on every single issue, but what we have to do is to be able to create an atmosphere when we -- where we can disagree without being disagreeable and then focus on those things that we hold in common as Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, Jane, he seems to be saying, look, just because I am inviting this guy, it doesn't mean I am selling out to what I believe. I am just allowing the other side to be present on a very special day, so that all of America is represented. Can't you buy that?
HAMSHER: He could have been inclusive by inviting a rabbi, by inviting a Muslim cleric, or by inviting a Christian pastor who was not so controversial and so divisive.
Obama had to know that this was going to happen. When he had Donnie McClurkin, who was a Gospel singer who preached that homosexuals need to be cured, appear a show for him during the campaign, gay activists were very upset about that.
So, he very much knew it was going to happen and that is why I think it is a very cynical move. I think Obama -- a pattern is arising where Obama does things to actively anger the left, and then when leftists do get upset, the right gets happy, and then he tries to avoid the cannon fire, but I think it is the move of a very cynical politician.
(CROSSTALK)
HAMSHER: If he wanted to bring people together, he should have been inclusive on this choice as well.
SANCHEZ: Jane Hamsher, Firedoglake.com. Got it right that time, right?
HAMSHER: Yes, you did, Rick.
SANCHEZ: All right. We appreciate it. Jane, interesting conversation.
We're going to be coming back in just a little bit.
By the way, did you see what happened today? Has anybody out there been to Las Vegas lately? Raise your hand. It snowed. And I don't mean like a little dusting. I mean like that. That is Las Vegas. The city was essentially just buried under. In fact, nobody was moving in Las Vegas today, except for those brave souls. We will tell you how bad it got and what was affected when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I like this one. It came in just a minute ago. This is on MySpace, right? That's the one with the orange background.
Chris, "Snow in Las Vegas, just bananas." We got that comment just moments ago after I said it.
And here's the pictures. The proof is in the pudding, pudding, 3.6 inches of snow at last count, we're told. The last time they had a big -- the last time they had something like this, it was two-point- something inches. That was back in the 1960s. What was shut down today?
I told you I would tell you. Here it is. Schools shut down, some highways shut down, airport shut down for some time. But now we are told they have been opened again. Most people there don't know how to drive by the way in snow. So, it is not like a lot of people were getting out or could get out.
Ah, but you ask, how about the casinos? They are open. Yes. There you have it.
By the way, the story that we have been following up on for quite some time is the story of a little girl. You heard this. She wrote to Santa and asked Santa in the letter if she could somehow get some help from him in stopping the sexual abuse that she was going through. She was being molested.
This is now the picture of the man police say they have arrested. He has been arraigned. He has been charged with the crime against what turns out to be his stepdaughter in this case.
It is an interesting development, because, wow, we have also learned this about him. And you heard it on this show. He works at a school. That is important.
Ryan Holeywell is a reporter with "The Clarion Ledger" newspaper in McAllen, Texas, who has been following the story. And he's good enough to join us now to bring us up to date.
This is stunning information, that this young -- that this man, I should say, works at a school, and it fits the profile according to what many people say, Ryan. What have you learned today from the school about what they are doing to make sure that maybe there may be not other victims there?
RYAN HOLEYWELL, "THE MONITOR": I have been speaking to Chris Escevel (ph), who is police chief with McAllen ISD. He said they have gone out of their way to make sure that teachers, counselors, staff at the school that he worked at, Lamar Academy, know to keep their ears to the ground, and listen to anything students might be saying. So, they are very aware of what this man is accuse of in Pharr.
SANCHEZ: Has he been fired?
HOLEYWELL: He has been placed -- they are not discussing his case specifically because of personnel issues, but generally in situations like these, when there is a serious arrest, they are placed on some sort of administrative leave.
SANCHEZ: Is there any counseling or anything for the students at that school at this point, or would that be too early, because I imagine some of them have watched the news and seen this man and recognized him and then said, you know, we need to talk to somebody. Has someone been offered up for these students?
HOLEYWELL: That, I don't know. And what they are telling me is that so far, two, three days after these allegations have come to light, no students at the school that he works at have come forward. So it seems like, at least at Lamar Academy, it's no wrongdoing that we know of yet.
SANCHEZ: Here is what a lot of people want to know on this story. And we have been getting a lot of reaction on this story, by the way, Ryan.
The mom. So, it was the step-dad. And, as we understand, he lived in the house. And he was going up there when I guess the mom didn't know. What reaction have we gotten from her, and how was that relationship working? Was she at work at the time or what was going on here?
HOLEYWELL: What we are hearing from the police is this happened when at least one of the girls -- late at night, one of the girl's bedroom.
Police are not pursuing any criminal charges against the mom, because they believe she didn't know, she didn't know what was happening.
SANCHEZ: And nobody has talked to her? Has anybody talked to her yet? Has she said anything?
HOLYWELL: No. She hasn't said anything to anybody. She hasn't -- at the most recent arraignment that happened, no family members made any appearances. Obviously, the school's police are making every effort they can to protect the identity of -- of these girls and their family members.
SANCHEZ: It's a real lesson -- I mean a real lesson. And that's what we're going to be talking about in just a little bit.
Ryan, hey, thanks so much for keeping us up to date on this story. We'll continue to look into it and we'll checking back with you from time to time.
HOLYWELL: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: We'll be talking about the essence of this story and what the role is of all of us as parents as a result. And, also, did you know that when you buy olive oil at the grocery store, there's a real good chance that, as the result of a brand new investigation in Connecticut, that you're not really buying olive oil. We'll tell you more about this. That could be dangerous -- when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back.
A lot of comments coming in from you and we're going to be sharing those in just a little bit. I want you to take note of something. This is important -- in fact, probably more important than anything else that we're going to be talking about or anything else that you're going to hear today. And here it is.
This child abuse story and the other ones that you've been noting of late are not -- not isolated incidents. In fact, one in seven children, according to generally accepted findings, are at risk for abuse -- one in seven.
And here's another staggering fact that goes against what you might think.
How many children do you think are abused by somebody who they know and trust?
How many?
What do you think?
We asked that question this morning on my blog at CNN.com/ricksanchez. We want you to go there and see how you guys tried to figure this one out, to see if you would get it right. The answer, by the way, how many do you think?
The answer is 70 to 80 percent, according to the Crimes Against Children Research Center at the University of New Hampshire.
You see, that means as many as eight in 10 kids are at risk of being molested by a relative, a teacher or somebody else who's respected by the child and by the child's parents -- the key word there -- by the child's parents.
So that means a little girl who asked Santa in a letter to make her abuser stop and police end up arresting -- allegedly -- her stepfather in this case.
Should we be surprised when we heard the news, which we broke on this newscast yesterday, that the stepfather also works at a school?
I have four kids and they're without even a close second the most important thing in my life by far. So this story had me thinking yesterday on my way home from work. And here's what I take from it to discuss with my wife.
I have to not only talk to my kids, I have to make sure that they talk to me about anything or anyone who makes them uncomfortable. I have to tell them who can touch them, how and where. It's not the kids' job. It's not the media's job. It's not the police officer's job to make the bust. It's not the school's job. It's my job as a parent -- my responsibility, no matter how difficult or embarrassing something like this might be. It's something to think, as we watch what happens around the country.
That's CNN.com/ricksanchez.
What do you think?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I want to follow up now on a story we brought to your attention yesterday. And since then it has gotten a lot of reaction both in the Internet community and beyond. This is the story of Billey Joe Johnson, a very prominent, well-known and successful athlete in Mississippi. Early last week he was driving in a car when he was pulled over by a sheriff's deputy. According to the police report filed by the sheriff's deputy, moments after that, he was found dead and a shotgun on top of him. He was just outside his car. Today we learned from one of our own producers, who we had sent to the scene to investigate, that the NAACP is saying that after their investigation, they are convinced that this could not have been a suicide. Members of the NAACP, we understand, are close to the family and have been talking to the family and have also been talking to many people there in the community.
So we have been curious as to what happened. The first thing I want to do, though, to be fair -- because, at this point, no one seems to know what really happened. And the only two people there that night was Billey Joe Johnson and the sheriff's deputy.
We want to read to you his report. Here it is. He says: "I asked for his driver's license and advised him to have a seat in his vehicle while I checked his license out. When I went back to my vehicle, I picked up the radio the call it in and heard a gunshot and glass breaking. I looked up and saw the black male fell on the ground and the gun he had in his hand fell on top of him."
I should tell you that we have been reaching out to the police department. And they have told us that they are not going to make any comments, because this is an active investigation. In fact, the investigation is now being handled by the Mississippi Bureau of Investigations.
What we'd like to do now is continue to speak to one of the players in this case.
Obviously, one of the people affected most by this case is Billey Joe Johnson, Sr. (ph). He is the boy's father. We understand now -- and I'm just being told by my producer in my ear that we're joined by his wife, as well. This is his wife Annette that you see there, as well. Again, our condolences to both of you. No one wants to make conjectures as to what has happened in this case. But many people around the country are wondering what could have happened to your son.
What have you learned from your lawyers and from investigators in the case so far about how your son died?
Mr. Johnson?
(AUDIO GAP)
SANCHEZ: All right. Let's try that in just a little bit. We understand that we're having some issues with the audio, but we do want to be able to hear from the Johnsons in this case. And we will do it for you.
Let's take a break. When we come back, we'll tell you that and the latest on the Santa abuse letter, as well.
Stay with us.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back.
I'm Rick Sanchez.
We are efforting, as we speak, to try and get in contact with the parents of Billey Joe Johnson there in Mississippi. And we're getting a lot of reaction on this story.
Let me share with you this one right here from Swizzkitten. She's saying: "This whole thing sounds fishy, especially the gun falling on top of him."
Now, obviously, that's a question that's being asked and re- asked. To be fair, just because something is curious or fishy, as she says, doesn't mean that there may not be a reasonable explanation for what happened. And that is why, at this particular point in time, all of the players in this case need to be given the benefit of the doubt. And that's why we're reaching out to as many players as we can.
I'm told that we're just now setting up communication with the parents. And we should be able to reach them, if nothing else, by phone in just a little bit.
But let me bring you up to date now on another story that's extremely important. This is what's going on in the State of Illinois. Blagojevich, as you know, has been charged by the Feds on what appears to be a corruption case. But now the State of Illinois has decided -- there you see him going jogging today after briefly talking to reporters. The State of Illinois has decided to go ahead to set up an impeachment committee. Well, his lawyer -- Blagojevich's lawyer hammered that impeachment committee both yesterday and today. We have the sound. We want you to listen to some of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED GENSON, BLAGOJEVICH'S ATTORNEY: If you give me subpoena power, I will subpoena Fitzgerald tomorrow.
If you give me subpoena power, I will subpoena him for the names of these people A, B, C, D, E, F, G -- none of whose names we know here. I'll do all that for you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I presume you'll have that opportunity at the proper criminal trial, to be able to talk to who you need to.
But will you be bringing your client here to answer these questions that we have as the committee...
GENSON: Maybe I will...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...to determine...
GENSON: ...and maybe I won't. But I have to find out what you're going if do at the end of your case and I'll make that decision. I have -- my client has (INAUDIBLE)...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a case, Mr. Genson.
GENSON: My client has a Fifth Amendment right not to testify.
Is he going to exercise it?
I haven't asked him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But this isn't...
GENSON: But I don't think I can -- I don't think I have to, at least in my -- in my...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But let's not get confused.
GENSON: In my...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a case.
GENSON: ...brief remarks, make that kind of commitment to you now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may have the opportunity in the case, should the house impeach. Then you would have that opportunity to determine at a trial that the Senate would have if this...
GENSON: So I am not allowed to question the lack of confrontation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I'm just saying if we...
GENSON: I am not allowed to...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...we want to get into the facts...
GENSON: I'm not having...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...we should have your client here. If you want to the facts, let's bring him here. Let's ask the questions.
GENSON: I just think this is...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a lot of things we'd like to know.
GENSON: This is Alice in wonderland.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't believe so at all.
GENSON: They -- they talk about -- they talk about -- or you have a gentleman get up there and read an anonymous complaint with names of people who, in fact, don't -- they don't tell us about on tapes that we're not even sure exist. I'm questioning and making remarks about that and your response is forget all that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not saying...
GENSON: What are you playing at? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's the wrong time for that. But what we heard so far today, if we are to believe the evidence, it seems to me that your client's sole idea was to get out of being the governor of Illinois.
GENSON: You just...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd like to know whether he'd like to be the governor. And if he doesn't want to be the governor...
GENSON: (INAUDIBLE)...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...he could resign.
GENSON: How about you subpoena him?
Or how about we wait until we get through our case to decide whether, in fact, we're going to ask him?
What I am saying is the issue in this case is the evidence that you have. The evidence you have is nil, zip, nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We haven't tried the case. We are getting evidence now.
GENSON: This isn't evidence. And that's my argument. If you'd let me finish...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is -- this is weird.
Kendall Coffey is a U.S. former -- a former U.S. prosecutor.
He's joining us now.
Hey, does Genson make a good point?
It's like the impeachment committee is going to try him -- maybe not legally using the definition of a trial. But the other trial hasn't even begun or started to begin yet, right?
There's not even been a preliminary hearing.
KENDALL COFFEY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, I think he's making a lot of great points. And let's look at what his strategy is. The last thing the prosecutors want to do is to share any of their witnesses, their evidence, turn over anything to a wide open, free- wheeling political process in the Illinois legislature. So how in the heck are the Illinois legislators going to prove that Blagojevich is guilty of anything...
SANCHEZ: So...
COFFEY: ...other than simply say, well, they charged him, he must be guilty. That's a hard sell, Rick, because there is a presumption of innocence this country.
SANCHEZ: The last time we checked.
Should they even have an impeachment committee set up then at all?
COFFEY: Well, believe it or not, this kind of thing, in a different way, comes up all the time -- a parallel proceeding between a criminal case and a civil or an administrative action. It could be a lawsuit for damages. It could be somebody getting fired from the city at the same time they're being prosecuted by the state attorney's office.
And prosecutors usually ask the administrative procedure, the political process -- hold off. Don't do anything because if our witnesses and our evidence start getting dragged in front of your separate political process, it could mess up our case. So from a prosecutor's standpoint, a tough dilemma for everybody. They don't want an alleged crook to stay in the office...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
COFFEY: On the other hand, they don't want their criminal case getting messed up.
SANCHEZ: So the prosecutors are going to say you know what, we aren't sharing nothing...
COFFEY: Probably.
SANCHEZ: ...because it's going to mess up our case. And the senators are saying, but we want your stuff so we can try and impeach this guy. And the defense attorney is saying you can't do that, they're just allegations, there's no evidence here.
It's an interesting triad, isn't it?
COFFEY: It is a heck of a dilemma for the legislature. And the short answer is they might do "initial impeachment" in order to bring the charges, but then hold off on the trial in the Senate, because that would a giant headache...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
COFFEY: At the end of the day, I don't think anyone is going to say this guy should be thrown out of office unless some actual evidence and witnesses are presented to prove something.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
COFFEY: And the prosecutor holds all that stuff and they don't want to turn it over.
SANCHEZ: And it's the old argument about the court of public opinion versus the real court of law.
Hey, thanks so much, as usual. Kendall Coffey there from my old hometown in Miami.
COFFEY: Hey, thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: We'll talk again.
I've just been told by our producers that we've been able to hook up with the family now. We are able to speak to them. There they are. They're standing by. They'll take my questions and yours on this case that a lot of folks have been talking about out of Mississippi, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: As promised, we now have Billey Joe Johnson, Sr. (ph) and his wife Annette. They have recently lost their child, Billey Joe Johnson, who was a fabulous athlete -- so much so, that he was being recruited by all the major universities to be a running back -- the University of Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas.
So I think it's undeniable that he had a very bright future ahead of him. And that's why, maybe, perhaps, the story is so tragic that last week he died, somewhat mysteriously, after being pulled over by a sheriff's deputy.
We thank Mr. Johnson and Mrs. Johnson for joining us.
Again, we offer our condolences.
And I'll begin by just asking you, you know, we don't, obviously, want to get into conjecture at this point. And there's a lot of information that's still out there.
But we would like to ask you what you have learned from police or from the authorities thus far, either directly or through your attorneys, that would amplify this story and give us more information?
Mr. Johnson?
BILLEY JOE JOHNSON, VICTIM'S FATHER: Yes?
SANCHEZ: Do you know -- is there any more information...
Well...
SANCHEZ: ...on this story that you've learned?
B. JOHNSON: No. All I know is my attorney, he's got a real thorough investigation, looking at a lot of things that was done after and a lot of questions that we need answers. And we're trying to get to the bottom of all these questions that is unanswered.
SANCHEZ: What questions?
B. JOHNSON: That's all I really want is to get to the bottom of these questions on all this.
SANCHEZ: What question -- because there may be a lot of them here, because things seem curious. And it's OK.
But what one question is the one that you would like answered the most at this point, knowing what you know of what you've been told about this case?
B. JOHNSON: Really, I wants to know what really happened to my son. That's why he's up on a thorough -- a real thorough investigation.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question about what the NAACP has said today. They talked to our producer, who's there in Mississippi. And they said they, after concluding an extensive investigation of their own and talking to people -- they weren't at the scene nor have they talked to anybody else who was at the scene. They've only talked to people who knew him. And they apparently are close to your family.
They say they are convinced that this was not a suicide.
What is your reaction to that?
B. JOHNSON: Well, it's a lot of -- he had a lot of friends and stuff. And we -- the way my son acted and stuff, he was real joyful and stuff. And he had a lot going for himself. I just don't understand how something like this and just the way they say something happened to him, I would never have believed that.
SANCHEZ: Let me -- if you would...
B. JOHNSON: He just...
SANCHEZ: Could you...
B. JOHNSON: He was just full of life.
SANCHEZ: Could you hand your phone to your wife, Annette?
I'd like to ask her a question, if you would?
Do you have the phone there?
All right. It's an earpiece, so -- would you give it to her?
B. JOHNSON: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Great.
And, hopefully, you let me know, Chris, when she has the earpiece in.
She have it in?
All right. Go ahead. Because, you know, this has got to be a very difficult situation for a mother.
B. JOHNSON: She has it in now.
SANCHEZ: Mrs. Johnson, thanks so much for being with us, ma'am.
First of all, again, our condolences to you. There have been lots of questions raised about the shotgun and whether he kept the shotgun in his car.
Did your son travel with a shotgun in his car?
ANNETTE JOHNSON, VICTIM'S MOTHER: Not all the time.
SANCHEZ: Do you believe on that morning that he would have had a shotgun?
A. JOHNSON: No, ma'am. I mean, no, sir.
SANCHEZ: No?
A. JOHNSON: No, I don't.
SANCHEZ: Are you curious about the fact that the shotgun ended up on top of him, as the police report indicates?
A. JOHNSON: No.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question that maybe, as a mom -- you know, moms sometimes go through these things. And I know it's got to be very, very painful for you.
What question do you want answered most in this case -- something I asked your husband just a little bit ago?
There's a lot of details in this story and I know there's a lot of unanswered questions.
What is the thing that you would like to see answered in this case more than anything else?
A. JOHNSON: I just want justice.
SANCHEZ: Justice.
All right. We thank you, Mrs. Johnson. And, obviously, we're going to take on stop of this story and be as -- try and fill in as many of the blanks as we possibly can as we go along.
And we thank both of you, once again, Mr. And Mrs. Johnson, for taking time to talk to us today.
What a story.
Wolf Blitzer is standing by now to bring us up to date on some of the stories that are coming up today in THE SITUATION ROOM -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Rick.
The president-elect, Barack Obama, says he's outraged by the economic problems facing the nation right now. He's not just blaming Wall Street or the Bush administration -- he's blaming Congress, as well. You're going to hear his tough words and what he says he wants to do about it all.
Some of Barack Obama's biggest supporters are now criticizing him because of one choice for the inauguration. You're going to hear about the man that has some voters saying they feel betrayed.
And a massive military operation in the works for Washington, D.C. -- more than 11,000 U.S. troops preparing for one big day. Their plan -- we have details coming up right here in THE SITUATION ROOM -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: All right. Thanks so much.
Wolf Blitzer with the very latest.
We're looking forward to the show.
What the market's going to do at the end of the day, plus what they were saying today on "The View." We'll have it for you. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Fake olive oil?
Imagine going to the store and thinking that you actually are getting the good stuff, which is supposed to be very healthy for all of us, and finding out that the olive oil that you're buying in the store -- you know, the cheap kind, it's not really olive oil.
As a matter of fact, according to the Connecticut Consumer Protection Agency, who's just concluded a test on some olive oils, some of it is 90 percent soybean oil and bad olive oil residue.
The man who brought it to their attention is Luciano Sclafani. He's a food importer. And he's good enough to join us now.
How did this come about?
I understand you love olive oil and you started noticing that they were selling it really cheap, right?
LUCIANO SCLAFANI, FOOD IMPORTER: Rick, we're a 97-year-old family business. We've been importing this oil for 97 years. When I noticed a prominent ad in a major chain that a three liter tin was retailing for $9.99, that was the flag right away that told me it's not real. There's no way you can import it in bulk for that price.
SANCHEZ: So what did it turn out to be?
What did you learn after you (INAUDIBLE)?
SCALFANI: Ninety percent soybean oil, 10 percent pumice oil. And it was no -- it was no shock to me.
SANCHEZ: So they could be -- they could have been putting peanut oil, canola, just about anything in there, right?
SCALFANI: Hazelnut oil, anything. Only God knows.
SANCHEZ: And that could be dangerous, because there's people who have allergies to this.
SCALFANI: Well, one of the seven major allergens is soya. And I know firsthand -- I've got a son who's highly allergic to tree nuts. And I've seen him go into anaphylactic shock.
SANCHEZ: Wow!
SCALFANI: So that got me to go into shock to go after these bums.
SANCHEZ: And, you know, it's a good thing you brought this to our attention.
I wish we had more time.
We'll get you back and we'll talk to this.
Let's go now -- this hour is done.
Let's go take it over to Wolf Blitzer in THE SITUATION ROOM.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Rick.
