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Pakistan-India War Inevitable?; Tennessee's Sludge Disaster
Aired December 26, 2008 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Coming at you now: A mess multiplies. The flood of floods is bigger than we first thought.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The community is in a pretty bad shape.
HOLMES: Is this thing about to go from bad to worse?
Also, the plot thickens at the Pakistan-Indian border. With troops on the movie, we ask, is a war inevitable? And exactly what interest does the U.S. have in all this?
America's toughest sheriff turned reality star?
JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA, SHERIFF: You never know what is going to happen when these guys are wanted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're under arrest for real.
HOLMES: Check out the newest gimmick from Joe Arpaio to round up Arizona's bad apples.
And call it Boxing Day or just another Friday. Either way, there must be something you missed this week. It is 1:00 Phoenix, 3:00 in Myrtle Beach. Your comments on Twitter, Facebook and more, like nowhere else, your newscast starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: And good afternoon, everybody, T.J. Holmes here in the CNN NEWSROOM sitting in for Rick Sanchez this week. Glad you could be with us.
We have got a lot on our plate this day after Christmas. We will start, however, and unfortunately a horrible story for a Christmas Eve shooting. Santa comes to the door with guns a'blazing. We know that at least nine people now have been killed after a man knocked on the door at a holiday party and went in and started shooting.
At least 25 people, we understand, were in that home. At least nine we know of have been killed. After the shooting, the place was then set on fire by that perpetrator.
Chris Lawrence is out in California with the latest for us here.
And, Chris, police believe at least right now that the person who is responsible for that shooting actually committed suicide?
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They do, T.J.
And we expect to get some more information on this case in just the next couple hours. We expect that the police will be releasing photographs of the Santa Claus suit that was used. And we may hear actual 911 tapes made during the attack.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE (voice over): Just minutes before midnight on Christmas Eve, a visitor came to this home intending to burn it down.
CHIEF KIM RANEY, COVINA, CALIFORNIA POLICE: There was a knock at the front door and a gentleman dressed as Santa Claus was at the door carrying a large, wrapped package.
LAWRENCE: He carried no gifts. Just two guns and a homemade flame thrower.
RANEY: An 8-year-old girl at the party ran to the door, opened the door.
LAWRENCE: And he immediately shot her in the face.
Police say the fake Santa stepped inside and shot anyone he saw. The family ran screaming from anywhere they could.
LT. PAT BUCHANAN, COVINA, CALIFORNIA POLICE: Through windows, through doors, through windows upstairs, off the roof. We have talked to almost everyone and any place that they could escape from, they were throwing furniture out the windows, we understand.
LAWRENCE: Police say this man set the house on fire, changed out of his Santa suit then drove to his brother's house and killed himself.
ROSA ORDAZ, FAMILY FRIEND: It was almost like he planned it, you know, for him to come and do this on such a special night.
LAWRENCE: Investigators say he did. They think Bruce Pardo was upset about his recent divorce. This home was owned by his ex-wife's parents and friends say it was well known the family would be having their traditional Christmas party that night.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: After they found his body, police searched Pardo's rental car. They found what they thought was some sort of suspicious device, looked something like a pipe bomb.
The bomb squad was in there trying to defuse when it actually exploded in the car. The police were worried enough at that point to block off part of neighborhood worrying that perhaps other explosive devices had been left, but in the end, it turned out to the be the one device, the one pipe bomb inside his rental car -- T.J. HOLMES: And, Chris, we have not heard anything yet. We heard from some neighbors. I know you have been talking to more people out there than maybe we have heard from back here, but still no indications it seems just yet that he was, I don't want to say capable of -- you never think anybody is capable of this -- but everybody is giving this guy pretty good reviews, if you will, as being just kind of a quiet and even friendly member of the neighborhood.
LAWRENCE: Have not heard one bad word yet. We have talked to several people out here who knew him. A lot of people said, a couple of people even said they talked to him that day, even hours before this attack happened, saying that he said he was on his way to a party, a Christmas party, that he was supposed to attend midnight mass later that night, that he wished people merry Christmas that evening.
So this has definitely just come as a complete shock to the people who knew him.
HOLMES: All right, Chris Lawrence for us out there in California, Covina, California out there, Chris, thank you so much.
And, again, we have been mentioning that he knocked on the door. The first person to come to the door was an 8-year-old child there. She was shot in the face, first person who was shot there. She did survive. She certainly has severe injuries to her face. Authorities say she is expected to survive, but has a long road ahead of her.
Also, we expect to get more from that scene and about that case from authorities. We are expecting a press conference out there at 5:00 Eastern time. When that does happen, CNN of course will monitor that and will bring you any information that comes out of it.
We are just getting started here on this hour. And as always here on this show, you can participate in it. It is your newscast, after all. And you can participate in the conversation through the Rick Sanchez Twitter page, also through Rick Sanchez's Facebook page and Rick Sanchez's MySpace page as well. Send us your comments. You can tell us about your holiday. You can comment on any story you see here.
But bring that stuff in. Spark the conversation here. We will read some of those on the air and again get the conversation started right here.
We will turn coming up next here to that story about sludge, just some nasty stuff that people are dealing with in Tennessee. These are some of the amazing pictures we have been seeing over the past several days, this coal ash that essentially busted through a retention wall there at a coal power plant there in the eastern part of Tennessee, well, a lot of people affected by it, a lot of people's homes affected, but a big issue now is about the drinking water.
Has the drinking water there been contaminated? Well, it depends on who you ask what answer you may get. We will talk to one of the homeowners there. We will also talk to an environmentalist about exactly what is happening there now and what needs to happen. Don't move.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right. We will continue here.
And we will turn to Tennessee. We have been telling you this story the past couple of days here in the CNN NEWSROOM about this sludge spill. There's a power plant there that is fueled by coal. And that coal, as it goes through its process of combustion, it emits this ash. This is pretty much a derivative of it. It is what is left over.
Well, when this ash builds up, there is so much of it, and there was a retention wall that kept it from out. Well, it busted through that, and just, as you can see here, it essentially flooded many areas with this sludge, this muck, this goop, if you will, this toxic stuff.
There is some talk now and some wonder about whether or not this stuff could possibly contaminate the drinking water. What you are looking at here are pictures from before from a different type of spill that happened several years ago back in Kentucky. That was a huge environmental mess, and many believe there is another huge environmental mess that is on the hands of people there right now.
Now, several people, at least 15 homes we know of, have been affected by this spill there in Tennessee.
One of them, one of those homeowners, is Chris Copeland. He is on the phone with me now.
Mr. Copeland, I appreciate your time.
We heard from some of the TVA officials, Tennessee Valley Authority, which is in charge of that plant, saying not too many homes were adversely affected by this thing.
You tell me, how much was your home, if at all, was affected by the sludge?
CHRIS COPELAND, SLUDGE VICTIM: Well, my home is in the path more or less of what the sludge, where it came down through our cove.
It is in my backyard. It didn't damage our house. Our neighbor's house two houses over is the large white house that you have seen in the pictures. We have just got a terrible mess in our backyard.
HOLMES: So, what are you being told, sir, right now, about how long it will take for this to be cleaned up and just how toxic it is right now, if there is a danger to you or your family and others around from just being around this stuff and breathing this stuff in maybe?
COPELAND: I have heard estimates of weeks to a few months. I can't begin to imagine how much of an effort it is going to take to clean this mess up. It is incredible how much ash, dirt, earth, trees, debris is behind our house and covering this neighborhood. It is really incredible. You just have to see it.
HOLMES: So, tell me, sir, over time -- you have lived -- I'm not sure how long you have lived in this area, but you have been there. You are certainly aware that this plant is there, that this coal ash, this stuff builds up, has a retention wall keeping it away from you guys and away from the surrounding community.
Have you been satisfied and pleased I guess over time with all you hear from the Tennessee Valley Authority and that gives you confidence that something like this would not happen?
COPELAND: Yes.
I have been here pretty much all my life. My family has been here since the 50s. We grew up in this neighborhood, lived here, learned to swim here in the lakes. And you become accustomed to living next to the power plant that, over time, you get that sense of security, that everything is going to be OK. Well, that sense is gone now.
HOLMES: All right. Again, I'm talking here to Chris Copeland, a homeowner who was affected by that sludge spill.
Sir, we appreciate your time. Good luck to you and your family and your neighbors getting things back together and getting it cleaned up.
I want to talk to Stephen Smith with cleanenergy.org on the phone here with me as well.
Mr. Smith, are you satisfied from what you have been hearing so far from the Tennessee Valley Authority about what they did to try to prevent something like this from happening and satisfied with what you have heard from them since this has happened as far as the water is clean there, they have done the tests, and how much time they say it will take to clean this up?
STEPHEN SMITH, CLEANENERGY.ORG: Well, T.J., no, I'm very concerned.
There's a number of issues here. One is this ash should be regulated as a hazardous waste, and it's not been. The Environmental Protection Agency is reconsidering that. It was stored in a non-lined landfill, and when that broke out, that has now released it, as you have seen in all those pictures.
I was at Chris Copeland's house today and seen the devastation -- I have seen the devastation in those neighborhoods. It's going to take months to clean this up. But the real issues are how is it going to impact people and the environment?
There is multiple pathways that this material can affect people. One is that it gets into the drinking water and works its way -- gets into the river and works its way downstream. The early results are showing that it is not in the drinking water yet. But this is a very fluid situation. This stuff is still not properly contained. Concentrations can change over time.
The more important pathways I think are going to be the exposure where people actually touch the stuff and as it dries out and gets airborne in the dust, because it will contain heavy metals, like arsenic, cadmium, lead, potentially mercury...
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: And that can cause problems over the years that we don't even -- that we won't see the results of for quite some time.
SMITH: That is exactly right. You have acute problems that we are dealing with today, but this is going to have chronic problems for a long time.
This whole area now has been devastated environmentally. And I don't know how TVA and the other officials are going to be able to return this to normal, because again this stuff is all saturated in the soil, likely laced with toxic heavy metals.
And this is why this material needs to be regulated by the Environmental Protection Agency and not just left to the coal industry to control.
HOLMES: Well, this is something that, like you say, the EPA wants to look at, reexamine, if you will. But why do you think it hasn't to this point regulated?
SMITH: Well, there's a couple of reasons.
One, the utility industry has fought very hard for this not to be regulated, because it would increase the cost to have this stuff in properly lined containments that are safe. The other thing is that the coal industry itself is perpetuating a big mythology about clean coal.
And they don't want people knowing that even as they clean this stuff out of the air, it ends up in the ash. And then it has to be disposed of. The mythology of clean coal is why the industry is pushing this so hard not to have it regulated as a hazardous waste.
But as common sense tells you, as you pull it out of the stack, it is going to end up somewhere and it ends up in this ash and this ash is currently not being properly regulated and controlled by the Environmental Protection Agency.
HOLMES: Well, this ash, like we said, it is tough to try to find a way to really describe this stuff. It's just some thick, some muck, some goop, some just nasty stuff that a lot of people don't -- who aren't -- don't live in that area and aren't familiar with it, if you can, put into terms for people who may be listening right now who don't live near one of these things, never been through something like this, put into terms people can understand the gravity of the environmental situation we may have on our hands.
SMITH: Well, this is a major, probably the largest environmental spill in the Eastern United States ever.
And because this material likely contains toxic heavy metals, it is a major environmental disaster. Now, what needs to happen is what are the pathways that people will get exposed? Drinking water is one. The preliminary results are positive. But as this stuff dries out and becomes airborne, as people get potentially around it, as it gets into the fish and the aquatic life, people are going to be exposed to this over time.
The thing that is irresponsible is that the Tennessee Valley Authority nor the EPA nor the state officials have gone neighborhood to neighborhood and warned the residents that they should not be coming in contact with this. They should be kept away from this, and they should be warning the residents. TVA right now is downplaying the significance of this. And I think that is irresponsible.
We should erring on the side of caution. We should not be causing panic, but people need to know that this stuff is nasty and they need to stay away from it. And right now that is not being adequately communicated. I think that is irresponsible.
HOLMES: All right, last thing here for you. We have given -- or gotten estimates from -- those from the TVA and others that this could take a matter of four to six weeks to clean up. What would your estimate be?
SMITH: I would say we're probably looking at half a year or longer. There is no way that these folks are going to be able to clean this volume of stuff up in a month or a month-and-a-half. This is a -- you can see the sheer size. It is going to take a long time to get this stuff up, and then they have to get it re-contained in some way, and it is going to be -- we are talking months, not weeks.
HOLMES: And, also, we're saying -- this is something I want to go back to, the point you were making. People right now are not being told exactly to stay out of their homes, not that many down there that were impacted in a major way, I suppose. Everybody is impacted, but the homes not destroyed, if you will. Should people not even be in that area in those homes?
SMITH: Well, again, as long as this stuff is being wet and is not getting airborne, and as long as they stay physically away from it, it is probably OK.
But I think when you have children and other folks, they need to be warning people that this material is something that people need to be cautious of. What I'm afraid of is, as they start to remediate this and clean it up, they are going to stir the stuff up into the air, and unless it is properly dampened and kept down, then people may need to leave, because as arsenic and other things get airborne, that is dangerous for the citizens.
So, it depends how they remediate it, but it is of great concern, and I think the TVA and the Environmental Protection Agency need to be more forthcoming about the concerns here and not downplay the significance of it.
HOLMES: All right, Dr. Stephen Smith again with cleanenergy.org, sir, so glad you could join us here by phone. Thank you so much, as we continue to follow that huge environmental mess, disaster, some even may say, that is happening there in the eastern part of Tennessee.
Sir, thank you so much.
SMITH: Thank you.
HOLMES: Also, as a reminder there, you heard Dr. Stephen Smith mention several time the TVA, the Tennessee Valley Authority. They are the ones who are actually in charge of and operate and maintain that coal plant, where this spill did happen.
We did invite representatives from the TVA to join us on today. They declined that invitation, but I'm sure we will be hearing from them at some point in the future.
We do want to move on here to -- what do you call this going on in Chicago? A mess? That is putting it lightly. Wreck after wreck after wreck. You can barely drive five miles per hour on the roads in Chicago. There is a sheet of ice. That is on top of another sheet of ice which is actually on top of another sheet of ice. That is what they have been going through for the past couple of days, but things are supposed to get better, but which could make some other things worse. We will explain that coming up in the weather situation.
And also keeping an eye on what is happening in India and Pakistan. Already a tense situation before the Mumbai attack, a situation made even more intense after the Mumbai attacks, and now today, we have troop movement that make an already intense situation even worse.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right.
Those leftovers are cold now. All the presents have been opened. You have already made that trip to the store for the batteries that Santa forgot to bring yesterday. Anything else to signal that it is December 26 for you?
Well, if you were in Great Britain or maybe in Canada or Australia, we would be marking Boxing Day. Traditionally, that is the days when the wealthy thank their servants with gifts. But, over the years, Boxing Day became synonymous with charitable giving.
Now, I know what you are thinking. How can you be so charitable right now? You can't afford some of the things for your own home, I know. Well, think of this way. Sometimes, the greatest charity we can provide, nothing that you could fit in a box and wrap with a bow. It is your time.
So, let's pause on this Boxing Day. Think of something we can do for our neighbors in need. And lord knows we have got a lot of neighbors in need. We talk about them everyday right now. You see stories on the news every single about people who could use a helping hand, so go help them out.
We will be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Muata Kamdibe is many things, college professor, minimalist, generally happy guy. Unfortunately, he says, fat guy was the first thing that came to people's minds when they saw him.
MUATA KAMDIBE, LOST 120 POUNDS: I felt like I was a small guy trapped in a large body.
GUPTA: Always a fit kid, it was the stress of college that packed on the pounds.
KAMDIBE: I could remember one year gaining at least 50 pounds in one year.
GUPTA: But the scale in a Vegas hotel would change Muata's life.
KAMDIBE: I stepped on the scale and I was over 300 pounds. It was a weight and a size I told myself I would never get to. I knew I had to do something.
GUPTA: So he started the low carb diet, a home exercise regimen, and an online support network he called the Mr. Low Body Fat Blog.
KAMDIBE: I went to create a blog for the average lay person could understand and realize that they can lose weight. And they don't have to pay a lot of money to a trainer if they figure it out for themselves and understand the process for themselves.
GUPTA: Muata says he became a much more well rounded person.
KAMDIBE: I realized that losing weight was one of the last obstacles I had in really realizing who I am as a person. Now I'm getting to know me. This is the lowest weight I have been in my adult life. The face you're looking at now or the face that I look at every morning is new to me because I never saw an adult Muata face like I do now.
My name is Muata Kamdibe and I have lost 120 pounds.
GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right.
We will turn now to the situation in India and Pakistan, a situation that has been quite intense for a number of years that certainly did not need to be ramped up at all, but it was ramped up after those attacks in Mumbai last month, those attacks in India where the Pakistani side was officially blamed, at least remnants or those who were trained in Pakistan. And India immediately pointed the finger at them and said that the Pakistani government maybe not doing as much as they should to come down on terrorists.
Well, right now, we understand that Pakistan is having some movement with its troops, moving some of them to their border with India, possibly in anticipation of an incursion from the Indians.
We are going to turn now to one of our correspondents who knows this stuff inside and out. Nic Robertson joins us now from London.
Nic, always good to have you on this. You have covered this area and these tense times between these two extensively for quite some time.
You tell us, is this just a prudent thing to do by the Pakistanis to move some troops from their western border with Afghanistan over to the border with India? Is that just a prudent thing to do right now or do they have reason to believe that an attack is coming?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they say they believe that India is massing troops on other side of the border, and, therefore, there is a potential for what they see as a ground incursion from India. And that is why they say are moving their troops, some of their troops towards the border.
They couch it in terms of, we don't want to go the war with India. India doesn't want to go to war with us. We both know that we can't afford to do this.
So, at the moment, this looks like a serious escalation in tensions that grew out of the Mumbai attack. It doesn't look like the two sides are close to coming to blows. But when you get an increase in tensions like this, any misstep by either side that is misinterpreted can lead to a turn of events that could lead to some sort of conflict along that border line.
It doesn't appear to be at that point yet, but it is certainly is a concern for the United States, for countries in Europe, that events have reached this point. It is an escalation.
HOLMES: Well, tell us -- you know, right after those attacks in Mumbai, we saw the Pakistanis offer to help out, offer to do all they could to catch anyone who might be responsible, even though they were not admitting that the terrorists came from Pakistan, all right. And they even offered to send one of their security officials over, their intelligence officials, to try to help out, and then changed their mind at the last minute. So, what has been the relationship, and what have been the dealings, and what has been the extent of cooperation between these two countries since those, I guess, those days and weeks immediately after the attacks?
ROBERTSON: Well, there is a history of mistrust between the two countries, which -- which goes back to the partition, when -- you know, when the British pulled out of India and -- and left what became -- ultimately Pakistan on the western side. So there's a history of mistrust. And the Pakistanis have subsequently offered to send somebody to help the investigation.
But where it stands right now is this, from Pakistan's point of view, that they say that India has not offered enough evidence of the specific people that it said were behind helping train in this terror attack. Interpol, the sort of international police warrant force, if you will, issued a statement from Islamabad just a few days ago saying that they hadn't seen enough evidence. This is an independent international body saying that they haven't seen enough evidence coming from India that the people India claims were behind the attacks in Pakistan are responsible.
And Pakistan did respond by going to one of their -- the terror training camps that was specified by India, closing it down, arresting some of the leaders.
But Pakistan has a very, very weak government at the moment right now. And they say if the demand of India -- they put these people on court in Pakistan and try them for what India accuses them of with this lack of evidence, that they say that -- they say the situation is right now -- then this could be sort of a political suicide for the Pakistani government. So they don't really feel they've got much wiggle room on this, either.
And where both countries apparently feel most comfortable retreating to, if you will, is a confrontation between the two countries, which tends to set the populations of India and of Pakistan behind their governments. And that's where it is right now.
HOLMES: All right. It's in a spot that a lot of people wish it was not.
Nic Robertson, like you said, an escalation here. It doesn't look like they're going to come to blows, but no doubt an escalation here.
Nic, always appreciate you any time, but certainly on this topic.
Good to have you around.
Thank you so much.
Some of our -- our viewers are commenting on what we've been seeing in India and Pakistan.
Here is one from Hawke521 on -- again, this is Rick Sanchez's Twitter page. It says: "India and Pakistan -- that's a gun powder keg waiting to explode situation between long time bitter rivals."
Also, another topic we were talking about here a short time ago -- boxing day. This one saying: "Boxing day should be when you box up the ungrateful kids and send them back to their rightful owners.
Beth, I don't know what's going on with you, but I hope everything is all right.
Just a couple of the comments that we are getting. Again, please send those in. You are always a part of the conversation here with Rick Sanchez. So it's 3:00 in the CNN NEWSROOM.
T.J. Holmes sitting in today.
However, stay with us. The sheriff out in Arizona -- we hear a lot about him. You know, he's been in the news a lot. You might recognize him. He's the one who set up tent cities when he had overcrowding at his jail. He set it up, had to -- he had the inmates out there sleeping in tents, also making them wear pink boxers. But what you're seeing there is video from something else he is now doing that's going to get him more attention.
Why not?
Everybody has a reality show. Why not the sheriff?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right. They are a slipping and a sliding in Chicago and it's not a good thing. You don't want to be doing that in your vehicle. They've got so many accidents there, they can't count them. And they've got so many because the ice -- you've got sheets of it on the roads out there -- all the major expressways covered in sheets of ice.
People are out there traveling five to 10 miles an hour. But, still, that's not helping. They're still slipping and a sliding. Of course, people are being encouraged to stay off those roads, but that's sometimes just not the case. People still try to make it. And the result has been so many fender benders that the state police out there -- the troopers -- the authorities out there are just overwhelmed on the roads, a lot of people working overtime, having to pull in extra people to handle shifts. They have just been overwhelmed trying to handle all the accidents.
Another accident out there to report -- not on one of the highways, but on one of the tarmacs, on a taxiway out there at Midway International Airport. A Southwest Airlines plane slid off of the taxiway out there. Nobody hurt here.
Chad Myers, I want to bring you in. This is one I know you were keeping an eye on a little earlier, as well. There's a lot of ice out there. But it's starting to warm up for them.
No more ice is coming, is that right? CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: No right. And it's 37 right now at -- at O'Hare. So that's the good news -- and Midway, as well. So all those accidents that you were talking about -- those were in the morning hours. And things has -- it has been above 32 for most of the day. But the damage is done. Six thousand two hundred flights behind me. And very few of them, for a while, were headed to Midway Airport, simply because we had that airplane, like you were talking about, that was kind of all skidded off and then all of a sudden no planes could land on 13-C. So the airport was essentially shut down to incoming traffic.
And so far, T.J. , I think that we're -- today is the day in between storms. And other than three hours of rain and 28 degrees in Chicago today, the rest of the country is pretty much breathing a pretty big sigh of relief.
HOLMES: A sigh of relief?
That's nice to have right now.
MYERS: Yes.
HOLMES: We're going to turn to Marisa Kollias.
Marisa Kollias, do you have a sigh of relief right now?
She's with the Illinois Department of Transportation.
Ma'am, you tell me, are you all feeling better about how the weather situation looks and also the how the situation looks on your roads out there?
MARISA KOLLIAS, ILLINOIS DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION: Hi, T.J. .
Good afternoon.
Definitely things are -- it's a sigh of relief as we're moving into the afternoon here. I will tell you, this morning, things were looking very grim after this Christmas holiday, as we have seen a number of spinouts and fender benders. But we're definitely moving toward the plus column. The Illinois Department of Transportation is working diligently to make sure that the roads are clear and passable as possible for motorists who are traveling on the roads following this holiday weekend.
HOLMES: What are the speeds people are going out there on some of your roads?
I know you try your best to get to some of that ice and whatnot. And people try their best even to not be on the roads. But, you know, some just have to get out there.
So how fast are people going, generally, out there on some of those major highways? KOLLIAS: You know, earlier today, I think we had a lot of folks going 50 or 60 miles per hour, which is the cause of a lot of the fender benders that we saw this morning. Now we're starting to see folks really slow it down and things are definitely improving as we're moving into the afternoon.
So we are advising all motorists who are on the road this weekend to really keep it to just about 45 miles per hour or even slower and really proceed with caution in these treacherous conditions.
HOLMES: All right.
Our Chad Myers here with us, as well, our meteorologist over on our Weather Center. I think -- Chad, you wanted to jump in there. You had a question, as well.
MYERS: You know, that's the exact question I wanted to ask.
HOLMES: Oh.
MYERS: Because some of the pictures that I was seeing -- these cars were totaled. These cars are wrecked. They weren't going 20 or 30 miles per hour. They were flying when they hit this ice and they obviously didn't even know it was there.
But ma'am, you know what, one more thing is going to come to your state this weekend -- and that's flooding. Flood watches and flood warnings are posted pretty much for the entire state there. We have a lot of ice and muck and everything in those drains. You guys are going to get three inches of rainfall. I think the street flooding could be another big problem.
The good news is it's going to be 50 degrees. But street flooding could be a big time issue; also ice jam issues, too, along those bridges where the Kankakee already coming out of its banks in some spots.
HOLMES: All right.
If we had Marisa Kollias, we want to say thank you to her, from the Illinois Department of Transportation.
She had to run. Obviously, she's got stuff going on right now. They've got a lot of stuff going on out there on the roadways in Chicago.
But as Chad said, things are getting better as far as that travel goes but now have some flooding issues, as well.
We'll keep an eye on what's happening in Chicago.
We also want to keep an eye on what's happening in D.C. . Some pardons came out of there this week. The president -- we see this. It happens all the time at the end of a presidency. Pardons will be handed out. Well, 19 were announced this week. It was knocked back to 18 two days later. We'll explain why one, in particular, really caused a firestorm -- caused the White House to backtrack.
And now a lot of people are asking, well, why wasn't this one put through the normal process like the others?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, before there was Beyonce, before there was J-Lo, there was Eartha Kitt. Maybe you don't know that name. Maybe you don't know that face there. Well, you know, how and Jay Lo are the envy of many women and the fantasy of many men. That's Eartha Kitt and she was a star in dance, film, theater, music, television. She played Catwoman in the "Batman" television series.
Take a look at her there.
(VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And from that point on, everyone knew her by the cat growl. There it is. You heard it just there -- just a bit of it. She had a distinctive, sultry voice and the 81-year-old never really stopped working. She taped a PBS special just a month-and-a-half ago. That's now set to air in February.
But she died yesterday in New York of colon cancer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Don't you just hate it when somebody gives you a gift and then they take it back?
Well, the president apparently did that this week. He gave a pardon then he said give me that pardon back.
He gave it to a man by the name of Isaac Toussie. He's a developer out of New York. He's -- he pleaded guilty in 2001 to making false statements in a mortgage fraud scheme. You see his picture there.
Well, the president announced a number of pardons this week. Among them was this man, Isaac Toussie. Well, this is the only one he took back a couple of days later. A lot of homeowners, a lot of investors were upset about it, because they were the ones, they say, were swindled and really were affected by what this man did.
Now, also it came out that Toussie and many of his family members have ties to the Republicans and have also made some contributions to political candidates over the years.
And, also, even though the president has the absolute constitutional power to grant a pardon and he doesn't have to ask for anybody's permission and he doesn't have to follow any kind of a process, it has customarily been the case, over the years, that the Justice Department still looks through these pardons and gives their blessing. Well, there's some question about whether or not that happened in this particular case.
We want to bring in Tom DeFrank of the "New York Daily News." He's the Washington bureau chief there for the "New York Daily News."
Mr. DeFrank, does this one stink?
TOM DEFRANK, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Well, I don't know whether it stinks, but it certainly doesn't look very good. And the reason that you know that is that 24 hours after issuing the pardon, President Bush yanked it back, which is really extraordinary. Nobody -- any of my reporters has been able to find has any reason to believe it's anything but unprecedented.
So it's been clumsily handled, to be sure, at the very least.
HOLMES: All right.
Do you think that the White House missed some of the details about this guy and his background?
Or was it that there was such backlash that they just caved to pressure?
Or were they just trying to slide one in there?
DEFRANK: Well, I don't know think they were trying to slide one in there. I do not believe President Bush or his -- or the White House counsel, Fred Fielding, were aware of the fact that Mr. Toussie's father, as our paper broke the story, contributed $28,500 to the Republican National Committee. They didn't -- they didn't know that. And...
HOLMES: But isn't that something they should have caught?
DEFRANK: Well, it's one of these interesting little -- little deals here. Mr. Toussie approached the Justice Department. But the pardon attorney at the Justice Department didn't consider it because it didn't meet the requirement. There's a five year requirement. He had to have -- it had to have been five years since serving the sentence. And that hadn't -- the five years hadn't happened, so they didn't even -- didn't even review it. In other words, it didn't even get to first base
But then, because of that, Mr. Toussie's lawyer, a fellow named Brad Berenson, who used to work in the Bush White House Legal Office, went directly to the White House. And you can do that. The famous -- the infamous Mark Rich pardon given by Bill Clinton...
HOLMES: Yes.
DEFRANK: ...that was done by a former White House counsel by the name of Jack Quinn, who went directly to the White House. So you can bypass the Justice Department pardon attorney. But I suspect after this -- after this one, the pardon attorney is going to get a little more business.
HOLMES: All right. The last thing here -- and quickly -- is this pardon done, no longer considered?
Or is it just now putting -- being put through a higher level of scrutiny and we could see this one come back?
DEFRANK: It could come back. But most legal experts think that that's -- that's not likely. The pardon attorney is now going to take a look at it and make a recommendation.
HOLMES: All right...
DEFRANK: Most people are -- won't be surprised if this one is -- is reversed yet again.
HOLMES: All right. Tom DeFrank, Washington bureau chief for the "New York Daily News."
Kind sir, we appreciate you taking the time with us here.
I want to go through a couple of comments, while I have a second here, from the Twitter board here. Folks are writing in to Rick Sanchez's Twitter page.
Here is one. We were talking about those wrecks in Chicago. Brian commenting that: "All the wrecks in Chicago should help boost car sales and help the big three automakers."
He may be thinking a lot of people do need some -- some new cars right about now. Just one comment we did want to share with you.
Coming up next hour, we've been telling you about this sheriff out in Arizona -- Sheriff Joe Arpaio. You may be familiar with the name, but certainly you're familiar with some of his antics.
Well, he has a new gimmick these days -- a reality show. Everybody else has one. If Paris can have one, why not the sheriff?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: All right. Welcome back, everybody to the CNN NEWSROOM.
T.J. Holmes here sitting in for Rick Sanchez this week.
Let's take a look at Rick Sanchez' Twitter board over here, as always.
We were just talking about that pardon that was retracted by the president, that pardon of Isaac Toussie, who was a New York developer.
Well, somebody here committing that: "The initial pardon wasn't a surprise. The retract was. I'm glad it was brought to light before he got it."
Also, about the situation in Pakistan and India. Somebody writing in that: "Pakistan is creating a war of hysteria. It's a decades' old strategy used by their military or their de facto regime to divert attention."
And then one right there about that sludge that we saw -- that we're seeing in Tennessee. Patriot2008 writing that: "The Tennessee Valley Authority" -- the TVA, that should be -- "needs to hire Dr. Smith to orchestrate the cleanup."
Dr. Smith was my guest here in the CNN NEWSROOM. He said it's looking a whole lot like Katrina. Houses need moving.
So we thank you all, as always, for sending us your comments.
A lot of people have a comment about this next story we're about to show you. It's about that controversial sheriff out in Joe -- out in Arizona. Joe Arpaio is his name. And depending on what side you're on, you either think he's been doing a great job in cracking down on crime and criminals or he's just hungry and trying to grab attention once again.
Well, his critics will come out of the woodwork on this one. More cameras will be pointed his way for his next venture -- a reality show.
Brooke Anderson reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He calls himself America's toughest sheriff. His critics claim he's unethical and out of control. Now, Sheriff Joe Arpaio is unapologetically going Hollywood in a new reality show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "SMILE YOU'RE UNDER ARREST," COURTESY FOX REALITY CHANNEL)
SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: This is a very dangerous assignment to go after fugitives. You never know what's going to happen when these guys are wanted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Arizona -- one of the most controversial sheriffs in the country.
ARPAIO: I'm not going to brag, but there isn't anybody in the world that doesn't know who the -- this sheriff is.
ANDERSON: His inmates live outdoors in tents, regardless of extreme temperatures. And they're forced to wear pink underwear.
ARPAIO: They were stealing the white underwear, smuggling the underwear out of the jail. So you know what?
Give them pink.
The other reason is they hate pink.
Why would you give 10,000 inmates a color they like?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your cover deputy is at the front door. He's coming your way. Stand by.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Now Arpaio and his officers are taking their unusual tactics to television for the new reality series, "Smile, You're Under Arrest." The team works with actors staging elaborate scenarios to entice wanted criminals out of hiding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I want you to model my jail outfit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: With promises of modeling and acting opportunities, unsuspecting felons with outstanding warrants -- including DUIs, drug charges and missed court dates -- show up only to be arrested.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now I've got a little bit of a surprise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARPAIO: It's kind of fun to show how stupid they are and, as I say, the looks on their face.
ANDERSON: But not everyone agrees the show or Arpaio's participation is fun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is so wrong.
PACO FABIAN, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR "AMERICA'S VOICE": And it's going to celebrate a sheriff that is, frankly, scaring this community, a sheriff that has seen violent crime increase significantly in this county, a sheriff that is racially profiling the Latino community. And I doubt that the show is going to reflect that.
ANDERSON: Paco Fabian of pro-immigrant organization "America's Voice asserts Arpaio leads unfair immigration sweeps -- an allegation Arpaio flatly denies.
ARPAIO: We are the only ones cracking down on the state human smuggling law. ANDERSON: Arpaio is proud of his efforts off and on screen, stating his team made hundreds of arrests as a result of these reality show stings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're under arrest, for real.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Fabian of "America's Voice" told me his organization is considering putting some pressure on the advertisers of this new reality show.
"Smile You're Under Arrest" premiers on the Fox Reality Channel this weekend.
Brooke Anderson, CNN, Hollywood.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: In Hollywood.
Well, Sheriff Joe Arpaio has been a guest on this show here with Rick Sanchez. It depends on who you -- which side you're on. You can tell how well it went. But it was a bit contentious -- a little of back and forth, a little head to head.
If you'd like to see that, you can go to CNN.com/ricksanchez and see that entire exchange between our own Rick Sanchez and the sheriff out there of Maricopa County.
Well, stay with us. It's Friday. So we always show on this show what we didn't get a chance to cover during the week, which it was, of course, a busy week.
Stay here.
We'll show you what we missed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: We try our best, but can't cover everything here in THE CNN NEWSROOM.
So here's what we missed this week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES (voice-over): A wild water emergency, close call at Denver International Airport and, yes, by the way, Merry Christmas, everybody.
We were so busy this week, all of these stories to tell you, we just ran out of time.
See this book?
It's Abraham Lincoln's personal bible. They're hauling it out of the Library of Congress because Barack Obama is going rest his hands on it Inauguration Day.
Iran protested running with the whole throw your shoes at the president thing. They're showing support for the guy who is still locked up in Baghdad for coming up with idea.
Back in this country, snow -- big snow -- Buffalo, Rochester, the Pacific Northwest. We know. It's winter. It snows. Yes, yes, yes. But give us a break. We're down here in Atlanta. We don't get a whole lot of snow and we'd like to show the pictures.
The sunny Florida Keys Christmas Eve, eve -- a couple of local celebrities returned home. Sea turtles Joy and Jingles (ph) nursed back to health and well enough to go back where they belong.
(VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: And how many times can you watch the soldier mom and kid airport reunion story?
We stopped counting. You want to see what a Merry Christmas looks like, that's what it looks like. Just look at that face.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: We love that video. We love that story. Well, this weekend, a lot of stories to tell you about in pictures that our I- Reporters help us tell -- Caught on Camera, the 2008-year in review, Saturday and Sunday night. Yours truly, along with my co-anchor, Betty Nguyen, taking you through the year in pictures as told by our I- Reporters.
Now, to take you through the next hour in pictures and sound bites and everything else, Suzanne Malveaux sitting in for Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM" -- Suzanne, it's all yours.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And thanks, T.J.
Happening now, the dark cloud over Barack Obama's Hawaiian holiday -- the scandal surrounding the Illinois governor could touch the Obama transition team in the form of a subpoena.
