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Attack on Gaza; Bridge Loan to Automakers; Devastated by Sludge
Aired December 29, 2008 - 10:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: It is a war zone in Gaza. Palestinians in a state of panic. Israel launching a third day of deadly airstrikes and positioning tanks and troops at its border with Gaza. Many fear a ground assault is coming.
Palestinian medical sources reporting more than 300 people killed, another 650 wounded so far. The hospitals are, as you might imagine, overwhelmed.
Israel's defense minister calling it an all-out war. His forces targeting Hamas leaders and militants responsible for a barrage of rocket fire on Israel.
Our Paula Hancocks is near the Israeli/Gaza border. She was going to appear live for us in a live shot, but the situation where she is on the border is just too dangerous right now. Instead, she joins us on the phone.
Paula, good to talk to you.
Those Israeli tanks and troops on the border. What are you hearing? What are they planning? Are they planning, for example, to go into Gaza to launch a ground defensive?
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Tony, they're certainly prepared to go in. All day we've been seeing tanks moving up and down patrolling that border. We've seen bulldozers being brought into the area. They'd be one of the first to head in if there was a ground operation.
And where we were stationed on the border a little earlier on, we were moved away by the Israeli military. And they then made that area a closed military zone. In fact, where we were just were, very close to the border, that had actually been closed off by the Israeli military.
So certainly all signs are that they are preparing every last little detail for a possible ground operation. It's not a decision that the defense minister, though, is going to take easily, because he knows that there is likely to be Israeli soldier casualties. But on the other side, we are seeing a death toll that is really quite devastating.
More than 300 Palestinians killed, according to Palestinian medical sources. We do know that Hamas is admitting many were zone (ph) operatives, but not all of them. We heard from the United Nations agency in Gaza, UNRA. One of the spokespeople for UNRA said that they believe at least 62 of those deaths were civilians, and he said that is a very conservative outlook.
So all day we've been along the Israel/Gaza border, and we've been hearing air attacks going in both directions. It doesn't look like it's calming down -- Tony.
HARRIS: Paula, I'm just sort of curious. I know I'm projecting ahead considerably here, but what does the end game look like in this action? Are we talking about an Israeli reoccupation of Gaza?
HANCOCKS: Israel's been pretty clear all along it does not want to reoccupy Gaza, and that's not what this is about. At this point, Israel says its objective is to stop the rockets coming from these Palestinian militant groups launching rockets into the neighboring Israeli towns.
All this has been going on for about seven years, these rocket attacks. And the Israeli government has just said enough is enough. Just a week and a half ago, a truce between Israel and the Palestinian factions expired. And at this point -- I mean, certainly it's easy to increase the temperature of this conflict. It is not easy to try an decrease that temperature again.
We've had Egypt, we've had many people talking about a truce. Where we're standing on the border, that doesn't look very likely at all at this point.
Israel's dream (ph) vision would be to get rid of Hamas. Obviously, Hamas controls Gaza completely, so that's not likely. But they want to cripple Hamas so much that these rocket attacks just don't continue.
HARRIS: OK. Paula Hancocks for us.
And Paula, stay safe. Thank you.
Israel's defense minister says the goal is to deal a major blow to Hamas and stop the barrage of rockets into southern Israel. Ehud Barak says Israel is prepared to take additional action if necessary.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EHUD BARAK, ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): This operation will be expanded and extended as needed. We know what the goal is, and we are moving ahead with resolve.
The Hamas terror organization controls Gaza and is responsible for everything that happens in it and from it. We have set out in order to deal a serious blow to Hamas in order to stop the hostile actions for coming from Gaza against Israeli citizens and Israeli soldiers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Palestinians are pointing to the human toll in this crisis. Here's reaction from Palestinian council member Hanan Ashwari earlier on CNN's "AMERICA MORNING."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANAN ASHWARI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL MEMBER: When we look at Gaza, we don't see Hamas or Fatah or any other faction. This is not political. We see only a huge tragedy.
We see people suffering. We see the occupation on the rampage without any checks, without any accountability. And we see the Israeli parties playing politics with our lives.
This has been premeditated. It's a plan that was there for a long time. And now they've declared this openly.
Forget the spin. Forget the convenience blame game and blaming the victim as always. This has been in the making for some time, waiting for an occasion. And at the same time, this is part of their electioneering where they are wreaking havoc in Palestinian lives to show that they can be just as hard line as the other.
Unfortunately, Israel continues to be treated as a country above the law and exempt from any kind of accountability. It will act with impunity and continue to enjoy this immunity. It's the Palestinians who pay the price.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: The history of Gaza is filled with long foreign occupations, conflict and deadly confrontations.
Our Josh Levs details the history of Gaza dating back to the 1940s.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As we look at these images out of Gaza, I just want to give you some context on what the area looks like, how it all fills in.
Let's zoom in on the screen right here. What you're seeing here, everything that's light beige color is Israel. And this little section right there, that's Gaza.
Now, 1.5 million people live in that area, but it's only about twice the size of Washington, D.C. It's a relatively small area, about 140 square miles.
Now, what we've been seeing recently is this: Hamas, which controls this area, there have been Hamas militants firing rockets into Israel. We've been told they're going northward up toward here, Ashqelon, also eastward, some toward this area, Beersheba, these Israeli cities in the south.
And what we're seeing today is Israel attacking key installations, key Hamas installations inside Gaza that are right there. And Hamas controls that area. Let me also give you a little bit of history on Gaza, and for that we have a graphic.
We're going to start in 1920, which will bring you back to when it was part of the British ruled mandate of Palestine. In 1948, Egypt gained control during the Arab-Israeli War, and that's when Israel officially came into existence. In 1956, Israel briefly got control of Gaza. But then it was in 1967, in the war then, the Six-Day Arab- Israeli War, that Israel took control of Gaza.
Now, in 1993, Israel signed some agreements, and it was the next year after those agreements with the Palestinian Liberation Organization that most Israeli troops pulled out. But it was in 2005, as we reported right here, that Israel ended its historic occupation of Gaza, pulled out those settlements and left that area all together.
Now, I want to show you one more thing on the board before we go. Let's zoom back in really quickly.
I mentioned that Hamas controls this area. This section up here, however, this is the West Bank. There, it's Fatah, that political party that controls Palestinian life. Israel also still has occupation, still has troops inside the West Bank. That is one thing that makes it different from that area, Gaza, which is controlled by Hamas, an important context to keep in mind as you hear about the actions between Israel and Hamas militants in Gaza.
Back to you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: So the Israeli strike in Gaza set off protests in the West Bank and elsewhere. Palestinians took to the streets in the West Bank towns of Nablus and Ramallah yesterday. Protests also erupted in Lebanon, Iran, Egypt and Turkey.
And hundreds gathered outside the Israeli Embassy in London to protest the attacks in Gaza. Authorities say they arrested half a dozen protesters during demonstrations yesterday. A scuffle broke out after police tried to move some of the protesters so they could reopen a street that had been blocked off.
We will take you live to London in about 25 minutes.
Live pictures now, happening right now. White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe is briefing reporters from Crawford, Texas. The Bush administration is watching the situation between Israel and Hamas. It put out a paper statement last hour. It calls for Hamas to stop firing rockets into southern Israel and for all parties and countries to work for a durable cease-fire.
There goes your money. Today is payday for GM and Chrysler, courtesy of you, the American taxpayer.
CNN's Christine Romans -- where is she? She'll come up here in a second. There she is in New York.
Christine, good to see you.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Tony.
HARRIS: You know, we don't know at this point whether this money represents a bridge to the future for these automakers or a cushion to bankruptcy. Do we?
ROMANS: No, we don't know. We really don't.
We do know that this money to the two automakers, the two automakers, GM and Chrysler, has a lot more strings, Tony, than some of the other loans or "bailouts" we've seen to the financial industry, for example, and to other companies who have been hit by the financial crisis. So we might know more about where this money is going and how it's being used because that's what the White House says it wants from it.
So this is what we got today.
GM and Chrysler each get $4 billion. The Treasury opening it up, $4 billion in low-interest loans to each of these companies. Then GM gets another $5.4 billion January 16th. And then, Tony, GM can get another $4 billion on February 17th. That's pending congressional approval on the that one, but many people expect that is going to happen.
Ford not included here. Ford was an advocate for its competitors, saying that they should be able to get the loans, it's better for the industry. But Ford, in a healthier position, said it does not need these low-interest roans right now.
They have to prove by the end of March, you'll remember, that they are on a path to viability. Not quite sure how they're going to do that, but the next administration gets to decide what viability really means and whether they're there.
HARRIS: Yes.
ROMANS: And/or the Treasury can take the money back. And there's all kinds of other strings that they have to meet and things that they've got to do later on in the year.
So, you know, it gives new meaning to a car note, right? I mean, this is a loan to the automakers, not a loan to buy an auto.
HARRIS: Hey, you know, I'm just sort of curious, do we know just how this initial money is to be spent? Was that part of the plan that was presented by the heads of the big three before Congress? Or can we assume that this initial tranche (ph) of cash is about paying bills?
ROMANS: I think we can assume it's about paying bills.
HARRIS: Yes.
ROMANS: I don't know exactly what they're going to do when they get those dollars. They get those dollars today.
We know that they're on the edge. They've said so themselves. A lot of economists think this isn't the end, this is simply -- really important to give them some breathing space.
And you know, things changing by the day, Tony, in the auto world. I mean, Edmunds.com -- you won't believe this -- or maybe you will. Edmunds.com saying that in December, they expect light trucks and SUVs to outsell cars for the first time since last year. And they're expecting demand for hybrids and the real fuel-efficient vehicles to plunge for a variety of reasons, but mostly low gas prices.
HARRIS: Yes.
ROMANS: And also because, Tony, the rebates and the incentives out there for some of these light trucks and SUVs are just incredible. They're trying to get them off the lot.
HARRIS: Trying to get them off.
ROMANS: So that's what -- people are starting to buy them again. How soon we forget; right?
HARRIS: My goodness. Exactly.
All right, Christine. Good to see you. Thank you.
ROMANS: Sure.
HARRIS: A small town handling a huge environmental problem. We will take you live to east Tennessee. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: It is back to work next hour for a panel looking into the possible impeachment of Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. The attorney for the embattled governor may appear before the state house panel.
Blagojevich, as you know, is accused of trying to sell the Senate seat vacated by Barack Obama. The impeachment panel says it will not subpoena advisers to Obama. Federal prosecutors say that could hurt their investigation of Blagojevich.
New York City's former top cop facing arraignment today on the latest charges against him. Former police commissioner Bernard Kerik was due in court last hour in White Plains, New York. Kerik was indicted earlier this month, accused of failing to disclose income on his 2002 and 2005 tax returns. He has previously pleaded not guilty to wide-ranging corruption charges.
The Tennessee community that was devastated by a massive sludge spill is demanding answers. What kind of health dangers are lurking, and when will the neighborhood recover?
CNN's Brooke Baldwin is in Kingston, Tennessee, with the very latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Situation in the shadow of the TVA Kingston Steam Plant...
TOM VEREB, HOMEOWNER: You couldn't see the smokestacks from our house.
BALDWIN: ... sat Tom and Wendy Vereb's dream house, complete with that dock, a boat, and this loveseat swing. Now it's all gone.
(on camera): So looking at this and then looking at this, what goes through your head?
WENDY VEREB, HOMEOWNER: Depression, really. I mean, it's so sad because it was so pretty here. I mean, we used to sit here and do -- you know, have the fire going and stuff. And they'd go across the way to us, and we'd have some wine together and stuff like that and sit out here. It was really peaceful.
BALDWIN (voice-over): One week ago, a tidal wave of water and coal ash burst out of the plant's retention pond, cascading sludge onto 300 acres of surrounding land and waterways, including this couple's cove.
T. VEREB: And as we walked around, we came down here and said, "Oh, man." You know, it was just kind of hard to believe, the view of it.
BALDWIN: Some families just stop and stare, but most want answers. Sunday night, so many people packed into this emergency meeting that last minute, city council had to change the venue. And then the questions came.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was the last time this levee had been inspected?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you have an emergency plan in place for such a thing?
BALDWIN: The target, TVA. The president and CEO tried to assure everyone that cleanup, containment and safety are TVA's top priorities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm here to tell you we'll clean it up. And we're going to clean it up right. And we're focused on that job.
BALDWIN: It's a job that Tom Vereb knows for now has no end in site.
T. VEREB: This mess is going to be around for a while.
BALDWIN: And if they decide to sell, who would want to buy?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: And Brooke Baldwin joins us live from Kingston.
And Brooke, I've got to tell you, the e-mail announcing last night's meeting was so compelling, I actually wanted to be there just for myself. I'm glad you were there for us.
But let's talk about a pretty basic need here -- safe and clean drinking water. Is that available for the people in the impacted areas?
BALDWIN: I think, Tony, the answer is it depends on who you ask. A couple different agencies, including federal agencies, are out here doing different water quality tests.
You ask TVA, their answer, as far as drinking water, they say, yes, it is safe. And the EPA agrees, but they did release a letter yesterday. They tested -- this is an example of the river water here. They tested the river water right in the immediate area of the spill. They say there were high -- actually, very high levels of arsenic.
And so they obviously don't recommend drinking unfiltered river water. But that, obviously, is dangerous. They said they did test the water near the Kingston Water Treatment Plant. That they said is OK, so it sort of depends on the source.
HARRIS: Well, is water being made available to those who don't trust the source?
BALDWIN: Yes, people have been heading into the area passing out bottled water. So, yes, to be safe, that is being made readily available to the folks affected.
HARRIS: Brooke Baldwin for us in Kingston, Tennessee.
Brooke, good to see you. Thank you.
From a trader to a teacher, why so many professionals are changing careers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Working really hard to stay this far behind. Plenty of Americans will be looking for a job in 2009. But where?
Here are the top fields from our personal finance editor, Gerri Willis: health care, particularly genetic counselors, physical therapists, nurses. Energy should be a hot sector, anything to do really with alternative fuels. Education, teachers, administrators and psychologists. And last but not least here, management and consulting, another hot field right now.
Casualties of the economic crisis. Some London bankers turn a new page inside the classroom. CNN's Atika Shubert has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): London, an international banking sector, plenty of high-rolling bankers with their high-cost lifestyles. But things have changed under the credit crunch.
(on camera): Over there is Canary Wharf, the heart of London's banking industry and the scene of some of the biggest layoffs. Thousands have already lost their jobs, and the there's more to come. So, when Britain's schools needed a fresh batch of teachers, they knew where to go.
(voice-over): The Training and Development Agency needs about 6,000 new math and science teachers each year. Videos like this try to retract new recruits, but selling school can be tough. London teachers make about $45,000 a year, far below banking jobs.
JOHN CONNOLLY, U.K. TRAINING AND DEVELOPMENT AGENCY: But that's not going to compare with what you'd earn as a trader. It's not going to compare with half of your commissions (ph) as a trader. But it's more secure, it's a job with better holidays. It's got a better work/life balance.
And it's also something that, you know, if you've got a passion for a school subject, you're passing that on to the next generation. So it's really rewarding.
SHUBERT: Geoff Haynes knows. His job as an accountant and Barclays Bank was made redundant last year. But disaster turned to opportunity when he was asked to be a parent observers at his daughter's school.
GEOFF HAYNES, MATH TEACHER: I spent the day in school observing lessons, participating and actually helping the children. And it made me think, this is what I would like to do for a living.
SHUBERT: Now Haynes is advising other bankers who fear for their jobs. Many at this TDA seminar still hold jobs in the financial industry, and few wanted to be identified.
Haynes patiently answers questions. Yes, his salary fell by half initially. And yes, he needed to take a one-year teaching course before starting. But he says the there are rewards -- a stable job, more holidays, and work he loves.
HAYNES: We had to have a few economies (ph) at home. Nothing too significant. And we're getting along quite comfortably. It's my view that the quality of life isn't just governed by your salary.
SHUBERT: For some going from bank to school is the best way out of the credit crunch.
Atika Shubert, CNN, London. (END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: The third day of battle in the Middle East. And people throughout the world are speaking out. At the top of the hour, a reminder for you. A statement from U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki- moon. We will bring you that statement live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Twenty-eight minutes after the hour. And welcome back, everyone, to the CNN NEWSROOM.
I'm Tony Harris.
Rocket strikes coming from Gaza. Israel responding with a crushing air assault. Day three of the Mideast crisis, and the situation is intensifying.
Israel now positioning tanks and troops at the border with Gaza. Many fear a ground operation is imminent.
Israel's defense minister calling it an all-out war. His forces targeting Hamas leaders and militants responsible for a barrage of rocket strikes.
The Hamas attacks killing two Israelis. The death toll on the Palestinian side, more than 300. Another 650 wounded, according to medical sources. It is sparking outrage across the Arab world.
Gaza is one of the most densely populated regions in the world. Almost 1.5 million people in Gaza's 140 square miles. It borders Egypt and Israel and the Mediterranean Sea. And right now it is a land in conflict.
Let's take a look inside the hardest-hit areas right now. Our Cal Perry reports on the death and devastation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAL PERRY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the sun rises over Gaza, the extent of the damage from overnight airstrikes is revealed. The Rafah municipality building, a Hamas intelligence compound, the Gaza harbor, a mosque and a university, all hit. And another important look at Israel's overnight movements. More tanks, jeeps and equipment staged just outside of Gaza, poised for a possible ground invasion.
BARAK (through translator): We want peace. We have stretched our hand in peace many times to the Palestinian people. We have nothing against the people of Gaza, but this is an all-out war against Hamas and its branches.
PERRY: Hamas targets have been pummeled by Israeli air strikes. Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas of the world, now a mass of rubble and destruction. As the dead are covered, some of the residents of Gaza are quick to not only blame Israel, but their Arab neighbors as well.
It's Egypt and other Arab countries that are backing Israel's aggression against Gaza, the man says.
Israel says the goal of its operation is to stop an ongoing stream of rockets fired from Gaza into its south. But since Israel's campaign began, more than 150 rockets have been launched from Gaza, according to the Israeli military. And on Monday, one of those rockets claimed a second Israeli life, in the city of Ashkelon. Southern Israel now too in a state of fear and chaos.
PERRY (on camera): While, the violence may be concentrated in and around Gaza, anger is spreading throughout the region. Protesters across the Arab world are underlining what may be an unsurprising cycle of violence for people here. But once again the Israeli/Palestinian issue is once again the problem.
Cal Perry, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: And once again, these attacks have sparked a protest. Take a look. Demonstrations are going on across the Arab world and elsewhere. They're condemning Israel and calling for other nations to step in and stop the attacks. Our Paula Newton is at one protest site at the Israeli Embassy in London. And Paula, are -- well, maybe I should, instead of the question I was going to ask you, maybe I should just have you describe the situation around you.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tony, this has really mirrored other protests around the world. And you can see what's going on here, a lot of anger. The chants have been incessant. They keep saying, free Gaza now. But what they really want, Tony, is what you were alluding to. They believe that no matter any kind words from their own governments from the United States and Europe, that no one is actually doing anything to stop these Arab bombardments.
And I think continually from the crowds here you get a sense of a double standard. They feel that it doesn't matter what the politicians are saying to them, that they aren't doing anything concretely to see if Israel can start to show some restraint with the air strikes. You know, we had the numbers out of the U.N. Officials today saying at least 50 civilians killed, and of course scores wounded.
And that is really what is at the heart of all of this anger here today, Tony. We've seen a few people carried away, certainly arrested. It was the same thing as happened in previous days here in London. They really do tend to work themselves up after a couple of hours out here, and they say they will continue to be out here day after day. Tony?
HARRIS: And Paula, where are these people when Hamas is firing rockets into southern Israel? Where are these same people then?
NEWTON: You know, we have had different organizations here talk about that there is no equivalent between what is going on with the rocket fire. I've been to (INAUDIBLE). I've been to those communities. Believe me, they are terrified. They hunker down into your shelters.
When you talk to people here, they say how can you compare what Hamas is doing to having F-16s flying over your head? And that is at the heart of what is going on in these protests. We have asked them those questions, Tony. It is a very difficult place to navigate yourself, in terms of these people uttering on the one hand that they continually see children killed, but having Israel say as well that, look, you are targeting our children as well. We've been here before, Tony, haven't we, in terms of covering this issue.
HARRIS: Indeed, we have.
NEWTON: Very tough.
HARRIS: Paula, the proportionality argument is such a tortured debate at this point. Let me have you do this. Maybe we can give the viewers at home a sense of what is being said, the kind of energy around this demonstration. Would you have your cameraman sort of pan over and push in a little bit, and maybe we can have a listen.
NEWTON: Woj (ph), if you can get over to the crowd there in the middle, Woj is going to show you right now. This is really where they have been yelling certainly protests over a megaphone, but this is where the crowd has become angrier and angrier as the minutes have gone by here, Tony.
That's the area from where a few people have been arrested. And they continually are putting pressure on the barricades. I should say, Tony, that the kind of security that you're witnessing is among the highest of any embassy here in London. They are really nowhere near the embassy. At least you're talking about 200 to 300 feet away from the main entrance.
At the same time, as you can see as the hours go by, it is really getting heated. You have dozens of officers both on foot and on horses around this crowd right now. And a real mix. We even have some liberal Jewish protesters here saying the same thing that a lot of the Palestinian protesters are saying.
HARRIS: All right, Paula, if you would, we're going to leave our signal up. If you would, just sort of send your camera over there. Send us some natural sound of that protest, and we'll put it in our mix as well. Paula Newton is outside the Israeli Embassy in London for us. Paula, appreciate it. Thank you.
President Bush and his national security team essentially say Hamas triggered the attack. The administration says Hamas must stop firing rockets into Israel. Deputy White House Press Secretary Gordon Johndroe calls the rocket launchers thugs. He spoke a few minutes ago from Crawford, Texas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GORDON JOHNDROE, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The U.S. goal for the sustainable ceasefire, as I've discussed. Secretary Rice has been on the phone throughout the weekend with various heads of state, primarily foreign ministers, to try to urge the various parties involved to get behind a sustainable ceasefire. That is what the United States is working on now. Secretary Rice has been the primary interlocutor on that. And that's our goal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: The president-elect keeping close tabs on the situation in the Mideast. Barack Obama has been in touch with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice about the Israeli strikes on Gaza. Obama adviser David Axelrod was asked about Obama's statement during a visit to southern Israel. He said Israel has a right to defend itself against Hamas rocket attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID AXELROD, OBAMA SENIOR ADVISER: He did, as you said, visit Sderot in July. And he said then that he thought that when bombs are raining down on your citizens, it's obviously unacceptable. And there is an urge to act. But, again, I don't want to go beyond that because we only have one government and one president at a time. And he's going to continue to consult with Secretary Rice and the president and the administration on this and monitor these events. And he'll be prepared to take over on the 20th and discharge his responsibilities then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Very quickly, we want to take you back to live pictures from the position where our Paula Newton was just moments ago. This is just outside the Israeli Embassy in London. We want to point out again that this is a situation that may be escalating naturally. It may be aided, of course, by the fact that the cameras are on.
Let's go back to our Paula Newton right now. And Paula, I just mentioned just a moment ago -- I don't know if you heard me -- that this is a situation that you described as starting to escalate slightly. But we also want to keep in mind that these situations do tend to escalate when there are correspondents on the scene and when there are cameras on the scene as well.
NEWTON: I have to say it's a bit hairy. The (INAUDIBLE) police here at Scotland Yard know what they're doing. They've been through this a million times over in London. (INAUDIBLE) you can see this crowd is quite angry. They continually push on the barricades so that they can get closer and closer and closer to the Israeli Embassy.
This is really an angry crowd that you're seeing right now, and they are intense. Their goal right now is to get closer to the Israeli Embassy. I can tell you there is at least at least 50 feet and quite a large fence between us and the embassy right now. And they're continually pushing forward. And that's what we have going on right now. I believe that right now, the protesters are continually edging forward toward the embassy. But again, the embassy is well protected behind a very large gate. And once they get there, there really is nowhere for them to go. So, police right now trying desperately to erect a barricade between them and the embassy, but having a very, very hard time doing it, as you can see.
HARRIS: Paula, if you could, give us just a sense of how many people, maybe a rough estimate of how many people are a part of this demonstration right now.
NEWTON: There would only be about 700 or 800 tops, Tony. When I first got here, there were around 3 or 400. In the last hour, we've seen that pick up. This is a very busy area of London. A lot of people have just kind of added their voices to the demonstration. But there are definitely less than 1,000 protesters.
Again, though, as we see happen, there was a crowd of about 50 or 60 on a megaphone that continually were getting more and more aggressive. And a few of them were taken away. But now, as you can see, a lot of them have continually stormed -- trying to storm the gates of the embassy, and they seem to have gotten a lot farther.
You know, Tony, they had to cross four lanes of traffic just to get here. At a point in time, traffic was flowing freely, and now this area is completely blocked by the protesters, and the police really trying to keep them from going towards the Israeli gates.
HARRIS: And, Paula, because the camera is so close to the action right now, we don't get a sense of --
NEWTON: Tony, I don't know if you can still hear me.
HARRIS: Yes, I can. I was just saying that because the camera is so close and in the middle of the scrum right now, we don't get a sense of scale. What are we talking about? A protest of about 7-800 people on what, a one-block, a two-block area? I'm just trying to get a better idea of the size of this.
And I am not surprised that Paula can't hear us now.
Her camera is certainly right in the middle of this action. Just moments ago, literally in the thick of it.
Paula, my understanding is that you may be able to hear me now. And I was just mentioning, I'm trying to get from you just a sense of scale of the protest. Because the camera is so close now, at this moment focused on the security effort.
Describe this scene of about 700, 800 people. Are we talking a half block? An entire block? How would you describe it -- just to give us a sense of the scale?
All right. And we don't have Paula.
But again, this is something that we have to say in all candor has really started to flair up. The kind of intensity to this protest is really started to flair up over the last five to ten minutes or so. So we're going to keep an eye on this.
We'll take a quick break. We'll monitor the situation in the break. We'll drop back in as we need to, and we will certainly come back and update this side of the story on the other side.
Again, this is Paula Newton's location -- this is Paula Newton's location just outside the Israeli Embassy in London.
She described the scene of anywhere --
NEWTON: Hello. Can you hear me? It's Paula Newton.
HARRIS: Paula, I can hear you. I can. I sure can. Take it away, you are on the air.
NEWTON: Can anyone in Atlanta hear me? It's Paula in London.
HARRIS: Paula, we can hear you, can you hear us?
And for folks watching at home --
NEWTON: Just to reiterate here -- they are continually --- the protesters are screaming shame on you, shame on you. In the meantime, the police have really decided that they would be through with trying to actually have any order on the street.
And now with the numbers that they have here. And I can you, there's only a couple of dozen police officers right now in front of the embassy.
They're just trying to protect the gate to the embassy. And making sure the crowd doesn't storm these protected.
As you can probably see right now, this is a protected -- it's public street essentially. At least it is in London. But is heavily fortified by this gate anyway.
And right now the police just telling everyone, look, you're not getting anywhere. So just pull back. As you can see, most people not heeding that advice. Right now they're yelling shame on you, I'm sure you can hear it, Tony. Shame on you, shame on you is what they continually repeat.
HARRIS: Yes. Well, I'm trying to understand, Paula, how this is sort of grown. You described a short time ago a scene of about 50, 60 people.
And clearly this is grown demonstrably from that number. And as I look over the crowd, just a moment, we were seeing a number of signs seeming to indicate some level of organization here.
Is this a small demonstration that became a large demonstration? And can we assume through some -- some kind of organization whether folks saw this on television and began organically to reach out to others.
Or maybe some kind of internet, online organization.
NEWTON: Tony, you're seeing a very, a really highly organized PR campaign on both sides. It's not just the protesters here but also on the Israeli side.
And believe me, the protesters here have told us again and again, they will create any spectacle that they can on the internet, on the street and otherwise.
They want attention to be paid for this. The thing that makes them angry is that people throw their hands in the air and say well there's nothing we can do. Israel says they're not backing down. And that is what is making them so angry.
You know, Tony. They know that as soon as they start to see these pictures on the air and they actually see a lot of the palpable anger, they feel that somehow, some way, the message will resonate.
And it's the only way it will resonate. And as I said, that's why they decided to push through the barricades here and get ever closer to the Israeli Embassy.
They know the kind of PR campaign, the sophisticated PR machine that's needed to keep the issue front and center. Not today, not tomorrow. But week after week, month after month. And that's what they're staging here right now, Tony.
Police continually tell them, Tony. They're telling them there isn't any way they're getting through that barricade. And continually try to tell them, look, the protest is over. You need to move along.
And of course that's, of course, not happening.
Tony --
HARRIS: Are there elements of this group, in your estimation as someone who is -- has been in these kinds of scenes before, is there an element in this group that would like to provoke a confrontation? A real confrontation between the protesters and the police?
NEWTON: Tony, I didn't hear everything that you said.
But in terms of you asking -- I believe that you asked about whether or not this is designed to provoke a confrontation.
Surely it was. But, again, it's the kind of anger that the people feel about the security surrounds the Israeli Embassy. They are kept very far from the Israeli embassy. And continually say that they want this action -- this protest actually occur in front of the embassy, but they are very far from the embassy right now.
HARRIS: And once again, we want to show some of the pictures from just a short time ago. And I guess even some new video that we're getting in to CNN. And right now, you're seeing the police who have set up a bit of a barricade between the Israeli Embassy and the protesters. Anywhere from 500 to 700 people have gathered outside of the Israeli Embassy, according our Paula Newton right now.
Out in front of the embassy as you can see with signs. A lot of pushing and shoving. At this time, police trying to inform a part of this protest that there is absolutely no way that they can get to the Israeli Embassy to do whatever they might have in their minds at this point.
But clearly with cameras rolling, there is some PR value, I suppose. to this protest going on the way it is right now.
Our Arab affairs editor, Octavia Nasr, is on the set with me right now.
And let's bring Octavia in for some analysis of what's going on.
And Octavia, my question is, do you believe there are elements? I know a lot of this is genuine outrage and anger over the pictures of the Israeli response to the Hamas rockets into southern Israel. I know this is genuine reaction to what is going on.
But how much of this do you believe is propaganda? PR and outrage for the sake of outrage over what is going on right now?
OCTAVIA NASR, CNN ARAB AFFAIRS EDITOR: Well, first of all, I think it's very important to talk about what happened yesterday at that same location.
There was a demonstration yesterday at that location. As a matter of fact, we were on the scene to cover it. It wasn't as large. It ended up being a non story. There was an attempt yesterday to demonstrate in front of the Israeli Embassy in London. And there was an attempt to go into the embassy. To get closer, to get past security.
As a matter of fact, several people were arrested yesterday according to wire reports. And also there was a comment from the Israeli government say that no security was breached at that embassy. So, this attempt number two, and that is very important to mention because obviously that group just went home and prepared a little bit better. And the demonstration got a little bit larger.
HARRIS: Which is to my point that this is certainly an organized effort here to register the outrage and whatever else is on that agenda.
NASR: This is definitely, yes, this definitely more organized than yesterday. You can see banners, you can see signs. And also we saw the flag of Hezbollah. Hezbollah is, of course, the militia group that's in Lebanon.
The secretary general of Hezbollah spoke yesterday at length in reaction to the events in Gaza. And he spoke today, as a matter of fact. Hezbollah called for a demonstration in downtown Beirut, which was held earlier. I think it ended an about hour ago. And in it, he spoke again, and basically, he said that he's mobilizing his men.
That they're going to be ready. He did not call --
HARRIS: Ready for what? Yes, yes.
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NASR: He did not call for action, but basically he said that they're ready.
HARRIS: To do what? To assist Hamas? To prepare in the event that Israel moves forward into southern Lebanon?
NASR: You know, that's an interesting question because it does not say what he's prepared to do. He was basically sending a message that he's there, that's he is monitoring the situation. And that there will some kind of a response. But he did actually --
HARRIS: But that is a statement in it of itself that can be inflammatory in this situation, in an already hot situation.
NASR: Of course. And then for people in London in front of the Israeli Embassy to carry that flag, that makes it pretty significant.
It tells you that at least one person, we saw one flag in the crowd that is a Hezbollah, basically that that person supports Hezbollah and is there representing them. Not officially perhaps, but definitely there representing Hezbollah.
Now, so far, I think it's also important to put things in perspective, this is still a demonstration in London, in the civilized world. So far, it looks civilized. It looks like people are just basically venting. They're expressing their anger. An anger that we saw all over the world yesterday.
HARRIS: Well, that was my question to you. And then we'll get back to Paula Newton for an update on what she is seeing and hearing on the ground there.
To what extent is this scene, this demonstration, this protest, being replicated in the broader Arab world?
NASR: It's the same. I mean, look at the sign. You have, "End the Siege on Gaza," "Free Palestine." So, the messages are the same messages that you're hearing in the other demonstrations across the Arab world. Yesterday, we reported demonstrations from Mauretania, Morocco, Sudan, Yemen. I mean --
HARRIS: Where are all of those countries to help, genuinely help the Palestinian people? Economically, with governance? Where are all these countries and all of these people who are so outraged right now, when it is time to help the Palestinian people on a day-to-day ongoing basis? NASR: And you know what, Tony. That is exactly what those protestors were asking. You know, when we were reporting on those demonstrations, people are asking the government to do something, to help.
Basically, they see that governments are not being responsible enough. And basically, if you look at this demonstration, that's why these are organizations, these demonstrations are organized. In order to attract attention and say that not enough is being done to help the people in Gaza.
But, across the Middle East, people are upset, not just at the events themselves. At the loss of life, loss of security. But also, at the lack of action and lack of basically, these people are condemning, people are finger pointing. You see a lot of that. And people are holding signs saying, enough of that, do something about it.
HARRIS: Let's come back to that point. I want to follow up on that. But, I need to get us back to the scene. Again, this is just outside of the Israeli Embassy in London. Our Paula Newton is there.
And Paula, just sort of give us an update and describe the situation where you are, please.
VOICE OF PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, we can tell you that they are sending more police down here, certainly on horses. And they believe that they have well secured the Israeli Embassy itself.
But Tony, really, this is about turning what would have been more of a routine news event, we've come to expect these daily protests here since the air strike started. But it's a shrewd move to certainly move themselves up on the news agenda. And they know that they've continually press on the barricades and cause a scene like this that they've gone from story three or four, to perhaps in the local London news, one or two.
And that's what this is all about. They understand the kind of PR machine the that Israelis have sent out on this. And they want to make sure that their protests get heard, not just by governments but by government around the world. And that's what this is designed to do.
I can tell you that today, certainly they are much more organized in terms of getting the word out and this is what they wanted to happen. Again, the anger stemming from the fact they wanted to protest right in front of the embassy and are not being allowed to -- Tony.
HARRIS: All right. If we could just keep Paula's mike open. I just -- I know I run the risk in doing this. This is live television. But I just want to hear -- Octavia Nasr is on the set with me. I just want to hear what is being said. I want you to hear it as well.
So, let's just open the mike and take a bit of a chance here as we listen to the protest as it unfolds.
PROTESTORS: Free, free Palestinian. Free, free Palestinian.
HARRIS: Octavia, jump in wherever you want.
NASR: Well, basically, I mean, we're hearing "Free, Free, Palestinian." So, they're really organized. They're going in with a message. They have the signs, you know, the signs have the Palestinian flag on them and the words, "Free Palestinian." And demonstrators basically calling, "Free, Free Palestine."
And you see there, there is an organizer, there's a person leading this demo. He has a loud speaker. And then you see other people chanting. But, this is -- you know, as Paula said, I mean, these groups have figured out that this is a prime time for them to go back to the embassy. They probably saw the attention they could have gotten yesterday. They went back, organized themselves, showed up today with signs and a clear message and they're obviously taking advantage of the attention that they're getting.
HARRIS: But, here's my question. Freeing Palestinian is -- I don't know to what extent, and correct me where I'm wrong here. I don't know if the idea of freeing Palestinian is about a media event. It feels to me that freeing Palestinian is about a political solution.
So tell me how you can take this energy, turn it inward, particularly in the territories, and turn that into a real political solution. Firing rockets into southern Israel is not a political solution where a political solution it seems to me, is needed.
It does a lot for ginning up excitement and ginning up outrage at the response, which I think at this point we know was likely to come. But in terms of getting to your ultimate strategic goal of freeing Palestine, help me understand how this moves that agenda for it.
NASR: I'm not sure it does and I really don't know how it would, if any. But to go back to what we're looking at, we're looking at people, obviously responding to what's going on in Gaza today. The signs talk about stop the Holocaust on Gaza. They also you know, are asking to stop the siege on Gaza.
So basically, this demonstration is clearly a reaction to the latest event. I don't think this is demonstration that is hoping to resolve the political issue of the problem between the Palestinians and the Israelis.
HARRIS: But you have to state your case clearly in a moment like this.
NASR: And I think what these people are doing is clearly a reaction. The signs definitely speak for them. They're saying stop the Holocaust on Gaza. So, they're using words that will resonate with the Israeli Embassy personnel, with the Israeli government.
They're trying to equate what's happening today in Gaza, to what happened to the Jews during the Holocaust. It's definitely an organized effort to just draw the attention to what's happening right now in Gaza. You look at the people at the demonstration. They look young, they look like students. And this is, by the way, what we've been seeing across the Arab world. A lot of students feeling the responsibility, feeling what they're calling a moral and historic responsibility to do something about it.
HARRIS: Now, I like that. I mean, yes.
NASR: So, it seems that this is the only thing they can do and they're doing it.
HARRIS: So, perhaps the real opportunity here is for young people to take this mantle and see this as a real opportunity to maybe impact the policy in the territories right now.
NASR: Perhaps. And you know, if this demonstration remains peaceful, if this demonstration ends peacefully and with a clear message that remains the same throughout, maybe these people would have succeed in that.
HARRIS: Well, the message seems to be clear from the White House. And I'm wondering what your reaction and the reaction more importantly, from the Arab world will be to the paper statement that was issued about an hour, an hour and a half ago from the White House.
White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe saying that in this paper statement, in order for the violence to stop, Hamas must stop firing rockets into Israel and agree to respect a sustainable and durable ceasefire. That is the objective to which all parties need to be working. That is what the United States is working toward. Blame placed squarely on Hamas.
And no calls in this statement from the White House for restraints in its response by Israel.
NASR: You know, on Arab media since yesterday, they basically, were discussing the White House reaction even before there was an official reaction. Basically, the silence itself was interpreted as support for Israel's action in the defending itself against the attacks by Hamas.
In the Arab world, it's pretty well-known that the alliance, the friendship, the relationship between the U.S. and Israel. And you hear all kind of comments. You have extremes. You have you know, the good, the bad and everything in between. So many comments about that. But basically, they have read the message since yesterday.
HARRIS: Well, Octavia Nasr is a senior editor for Arab affairs. She's on the set with me here in Atlanta. Our Paula Newton is just outside the of Israeli Embassy in London right now, where this protest continues.
We're going to try to sneak in a quick break. Welcoming again, our international viewers who are joining us from all over the world. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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