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Israeli Forces Begin Ground Operations in Gaza; Emergency U.N. Meeting Scheduled
Aired January 03, 2009 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it has been expected for days now. The Israeli incursion into Gaza is now well under way. Here is what we know right now. Israeli troops backed by tanks entered Hamas- controlled Gaza a short while ago. It started on this eighth day of the Israeli assault against Hamas militants. The Israeli military says its aim is to stop Hamas from firing rockets into the Jewish homeland. They say the ground offensive is likely to go on for several days. Palestinian sources say At least 13 people were killed when an Israeli air strike hit a mosque in northern Gaza earlier today. The Israeli military says it is checking on that report.
Both sides have been exchanging fire all day. Palestinian medical sources say since the conflict started at least 435 Palestinians have been killed, almost 2,300 wounded. At least four Israelis have died in Hamas rocket attacks. Our correspondents are in the field, they're covering every aspect of the Israeli ground offensive in Gaza. We begin with our chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour who is in Jerusalem. Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, you mentioned those casualty numbers. More than 400 people killed in Gaza over the last eight days and 2,000 or so wounded according to officials in Gaza. And the four Israelis who have been killed by the Hamas rockets. This disparity and this sort of asymmetry in the civilian casualties or rather the casualties is what's also a major player in this war as it's unfolded over the last eight days because this is what's inflaming so many people, not just in this region, but around the Islamic and Muslim world, in western Europe, in the United States as well, as they protest the killings of children, of women, and others.
Tonight we spoke to the Israeli government official spokesman here who said, as he was confirming the ground incursion, that their aim is not to go after and decapitate Hamas, not to get regime change, as he put it in Gaza and get rid of Hamas, but to teach them a lesson he said that they must not use their rockets against Israeli civilians across the border.
So this incursion is now started to try to do what the air attacks have not yet been able to do, and that is to silence those Hamas rockets. This is what Ehud Barack, Israel's defense minister said as he publicly confirmed the second phase of this operation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EHUD BARAK, ISRAEL DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): I have thought everything over very carefully, and I have thought and thought things out before I take the decision. I repeat, this will not be short. This will not be easy. I don't wish to delude anybody. And the coming days will be difficult also. We're also looking at what's happening on the north. Important, we don't wish for a confrontation up there. We want our northern front to remain quiet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Well, as he was announcing this incursion, you heard him talk about his northern border. This was his first public statement that they have no hostile intention against Lebanon or Syria. That is the northern border. Mindful of the fact that 2 1/2 hour years ago, the last time Israel went to war in this capacity was against Lebanon, and particularly against Hezbollah, who was firing rockets into Israel.
In a very similar pattern to the way it has unfolded here between Israel and Hamas. So he also, Ehud Barak, the defense minister also talked about being mindful of the humanitarian cause and said that Israel would do all it could to take care and try to distinguish between what they called the Hamas terrorist infrastructure and the humanitarians, the children, the women who have been the civilians, who have been killed in these last eight days.
Ehud Barak says that their aim is to stop Hamas attacking and being hostile against Israel and Israeli citizens. At the same time, practically, that the defense minister of Israel was talking about his military campaign into Gaza. In Gaza itself, Hamas spokespeople were also saying that they would continue the fight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISMAIL RADWAN, HAMAS SPOKESMAN (through translator): To the Israeli Army, your incursion in Gaza will not be a picnic and we promise that Gaza will be your cemetery, God willing. You have no choice but to end this aggression and deceit without any condition. You will not live in peace until our Palestinian people live in peace. We will not abandon the battlefield and we will stay on the thorny course, and we will fight until the last breath.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: In a way, what's happening here over the last eight days is a direct result of what happened three years ago when Hamas was elected by an overwhelming majority of the Palestinian people. As soon as that happened, the Israelis started to blockade Gaza, would not allow business as it had been before, would not allow the same kind of open borders as had been when the Palestinian authority was in charge. The United States and other western nations also continue that blockade and this is what has led to this very cramped, very poor situation in Gaza at this time.
Not only is Gaza isolated from the rest of the world, but the Palestinians themselves are divided after a civil war between Hamas and the Palestinian authority left Hamas in control of Gaza and the Palestinian authority in control of the West Bank. So there's no clear way to figure out how this is going to end in any diplomatic way.
So far, U.S. efforts at kick-starting the peace process have failed. As we can see, and there is no immediate way to see how there's going to be a ceasefire or some kind of political resolution. There will be a U.N. security council meeting this coming week and also the former British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, has landed here now in Israel in his capacity as envoy for the quartette, the United States, Europe, the United Nations and Russia, and also the French president will be here on Monday. Fredericka.
WHITFIELD: All right. Christiane, thanks so much. We're going to talk a little bit more about diplomacy and what lies ahead for the U.N., Arab diplomats around the world are closely following the events taking place there in Gaza.
Joining me from New York is Yahya Mahmassani. He is the Arab league's ambassador to the United Nations. Good to see you. OK, the U.N., the first initial plan was to be meeting all throughout the weekend. Now it seems the meeting will be resuming come Monday. What are the expectations?
YAHYA MAHMASSANI, ARAB LEAGUE AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Well, of course now what the Israelis have done has changed the whole picture. The meeting of the security council in fact was scheduled to be Monday or Tuesday, and the basic idea here was to agree on a draft resolution that would call for a ceasefire, lift the blockade, stop all violence on both sides of the aisle, and then try to find a solution to this issue. But the main issue here really is that now that Israel has embarked on their invasion into Gaza, things have changed and I think this invasion should be condensed in the strongest term by the security council and the international community.
WHITFIELD: But if it's condemned by the U.N. security council, that won't stop what's taking place. Israel says that it is doing the right thing in order to protect its people, and this is the one lesson it wants to impose on Hamas to make sure that the people particularly in the southern region are not constantly under attack by Hamas.
MAHMASSANI: Let's put the issue in perspective. Israel cannot protect its people by occupying the land of its neighbor by putting a blockade around Gaza, starving its people, preventing food, basic needs and medicine from passing to these people. This is not the way you know to achieve security. The way to achieve security is to embark in fruitful negotiation with the Palestinians. And Israel really has not been doing this, not through the negotiation. Of course, the security of Israel can only be maintained by the security of its neighbor. That required - based on the Arab peace initiative.
WHITFIELD: And then what's your reaction to Hamas? Hamas spokesperson said during a press conference, you will not live, meaning Israel, in peace until our Palestinian people live in peace.
MAHMASANI: I think the whole concept of the Arab League is that the peace initiative would bring peace to both the Israelis and the Arab neighbors and Arab world as a whole and it would bring security to both. And this would be achieved by Israel withdrawing from the occupied territories and trying to sign a peace treaty with the Arab state. And that we have been offering since 2002, and the Israelis have not accepted it yet, although the international community have welcomed this initiative and supported it.
WHITFIELD: What sort of influence might Arab diplomats or Arab states have on Hamas if you're not able to influence Israel? Then influencing Hamas has to be the only other measure. So in what manner can that be done?
MAHMASSANI: Again, the basic issue here we're talking about is occupation. As long as Israel occupies Arab territory, there is no way that we he can get into with the Israelis. The Israelis has to accept that. Our security also requires that they withdraw from our territory. And their security is not through violence, not through military force, it's through peace.
WHITFIELD: But until that happens, do you see that this missile firing back and forth incursions is only going to continue?
MAHMASSANI: Well, if there is no peace, I mean, we'll have to go through a process whereby we have to make certain arrangements. Now ceasefire and the withdrawal of the Israeli forces from Gaza as a first step. And that to help is sustainable, continued peace, I mean a ceasefire requires lifting the blockade of Gaza. You cannot you know blockade Gaza with 1.5 million people, no food, no adequate medicine, no fuel, no basic necessities, and the Israelis should not expect the Palestinian people in Gaza just to sit and welcome the situation.
Of course, they are desperate. They take any action they can to lift this blockade. And the whole issue is the blockade and the occupation of Israel. The first stages to lift the blockade and then expect the sustainable ceasefire.
WHITFIELD: Yahya Mahmassani, thanks so much. Arab League ambassador to the United Nations. And of course, all the best on Monday's planned meeting there with the U.N. security council and some sort of diplomacy perhaps to be struck. Appreciate your time. Thank you.
MAHMASSANI: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: Well, now the latest on what the White House is saying about Israeli troops crossing into Gaza. CNN's Kate Bolduan is in our Washington studio with more on that. Kate.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Fredricka. Well, we've reached out but no comment yet from the White House on this latest development in Gaza. Earlier in his weekly radio address, President Bush condemned Hamas for in his words instigating the violence. He along with secretary of state Condoleezza Rice have called for a cease fire, but one that comes with a long-term solution. In the president's words, achieve a meaningful ceasefire that is fully respected as this administration has called it, one that is durable and sustainable.
Now, on the ground assault, the White House has in recent days avoided taking a position, declining to comment on whether a ground attack would be justified. And while we haven't heard anything from the administration yet, Fredricka, but you can safely assume they're monitoring these developments closely.
WHITFIELD: All right. Kate Bolduan from Washington, thanks so much. Keep us posted when something does come from the White House.
WHITFIELD: All right. Well, the Israeli operation in Gaza is drawing both praise and condemnation. About 5,000 anti-Israeli demonstrators marched in London, some of them threw shoes at number 10 Downing Street, protesting Prime Minister Gordon Brown's support for Israel. Anti-Israeli demonstration also took place here in the U.S.. Hundreds of protestors gathered in Chicago last night.
In Los Angeles, pro-Palestinian demonstrators lined outside the Israeli consulate. Chicago and Los Angeles also saw pro-Israeli demonstrations. One group waved flags outside Israel's consulate in downtown Chicago and this pro-Israeli group in L.A. was right across the street from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
Police say there were no incidents and no arrests. We'll have much more on this incursion into Gaza from the Israeli ground forces right after this.
But before we leave you, we're seeing some new images right now of a building fire. We believe, I'm told these images are coming out of Gaza here, and we understand that air strikes have continued along with the ground assaults. We'll be right back with much more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right. We continue our coverage of today's Israeli incursion into Gaza. Joining us now from Washington, Daniel Levy. He is a senior fellow and director of the Middle East policy initiative at the New America Foundation. Daniel, give me your reaction now, some of the images that we're seeing out of Gaza from air strikes to now what could be upwards of 10,000 Israeli ground troops making their way into Gaza.
DANIEL LEVY, NEW AMERICA FOUNDATAION: The reaction is that we have to somehow get ourselves out of this escalatory dynamic. We've been in this since that round of air strikes began a week ago. It was clear that was where we would go if not enough was done to maintain the ceasefire. That didn't happen. It was clear through the last week that if we couldn't bring an immediate cease-fire, then we would begin a ground invasion.
The interesting thing to note, is Israel has gone in, but for the last month, virtually all of the military expert analysis coming out of Israel has been that a ground invasion would be a disaster. And that's probably why you're seeing some of Israel's most prominent cultural leaders and voices of moral conscience authors like Amos Oz and David Grossman, who some of your viewers may be familiar with, calling for an immediate ceasefire. Gaza has no hinterland. It's not like the civilian Gazan population or the fighters can flee anywhere. The Israeli border is closed. The Egyptian border is closed. And then there's the sea. This is -
WHITFIELD: The Israeli foreign minister says it's disproportionate and that's the idea.
LEVY: Well, international law has something to say about this proportionality so I think it's a very bad idea to talk in those terms. It's also a very bad idea to set yourself up to be in a situation where there's no exit strategy.
What do I mean by that? The declare day of this Israeli mission is to have a Hamas-controlled Gaza at the end of this but without rocket fire, with a degraded capacity. The issue now is, at what stage do you destroy all the infrastructure of governance? Do you take out the leadership? And do you give Hamas no dignified exit so that, in fact, there's no one to be in control in Gaza? Israel needs an address in order for there to be a ceasefire.
WHITFIELD: But you know what's interesting here is you hear so many different points of view on this. Plenty are condemning Israel but at the same time are not willing to come to the aid of Hamas or Palestinians. Who would be the mouthpiece for Hamas or Palestinians, since many Palestinians who not necessarily related to Hamas are there in Gaza, can't go anywhere. So they continue to be victimized on two fronts, by Hamas and both by Israel.
LEVY: Well, first of all, Hamas, was of course, the democratically- elected Palestinian government in an open election. But I think the key here is first of all, there's a humanitarian situation. The Israeli communities in the south are under rocket fire. Four Israeli casualties. Gaza under this attack, 400-plus, a quarter of whom are civilians. So first one, we've got to deal with the humanitarian situation. The political situation is, of course, both sides have domestic politics. Israel has an election on February 10th. There's a political division inside Palestine. What you're going to need, Fredricka is those who can talk most effectively to the Israeli government to try and bring a ceasefire.
WHITFIELD: Who's that?
LEVY: Well, that's the U.S. government. But the U.S. government -
WHITFIELD: But the U.S. government is already saying that we defend Israel's actions.
LEVY: Big problem. Because as Christiane, your correspondent said, there's rage throughout the Middle East and throughout the Muslim world, including where there are American troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, and that rage is also directed now to America because they're seeing America as being at least partially if not more so responsible for not preventing this.
So Americans need to work with its Israeli ally, to try and help the de-escalation because Israeli is getting sucked into Gaza is bad for Israel. And those who can work with Hamas, including places like Turkey, the Qataris, some others in the Arab world, perhaps some Europeans, need to be working with Hamas so we can get an exit strategy.
WHITFIELD: How influential are they?
LEVY: Well, they're quite influential. If you get a coalition, you see, what you need is a coalition around a realistic ceasefire package. And unfortunately for everyone, a realistic ceasefire package means no one gets a 100 percent victory. If it's a 100 percent victory, there won't be a ceasefire. What there will be in Gaza is a vacuum, a governance vacuum, is anarchy.
WHITFIELD: What would be the bargaining tool to get both sides to say OK, agree, ceasefire?
LEVY: Well, here's the thing -
WHITFIELD: Both side is going to say, I want something out of it. What would be the carrot dangled?
LEVY: Well, there are two things here. First of all, we know less the parameters of the ceasefire, no rocket fire, no military strikes, and an end to the blockade on Gaza and to allow a semblance of normality to return to Gaza. That's what's needed. How do you get there? You need a coalition, worldwide, with the U.S. inside it to say, OK, we're not playing the regime change game here. We are actually trying to get a ceasefire. The problem? Domestic politics on both sides make it very, very difficult and you have a Bush administration that is in its waning days and apparently still flirting with the idea of regime change.
WHITFIELD: Daniel Levy, thanks so much. Senior fellow and director of the Middle East policy initiative of the New America Foundation, underscoring this very complicated nothing easy about exit strategy for either one of them at this point.
All right. A spokeswoman for the Israeli military says the goal of the incursion is to take out launching areas where Hamas has been firing rockets into Israel. CNN's Paula Hancocks is on the Israeli- Gaza border. What's the latest?
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Fredricka. We're still hearing significant attacks from the air, even as these ground troops are trying to secure those areas, the open areas where the militants like to launch their rockets from. We're hearing helicopter gunships overhead. We're seeing them firing missiles into Gaza itself, many of them hitting Gaza City. From our vantage point here, we can see along the horizon every so often big explosions and plumes of smoke. So obviously a terrifying night for those residents in Gaza.
But for the military itself, it is saying this is necessary to try and take out all of those rocket launchers to try and take out all of the rocket cachets and certainly do what they were unable to do from the air, according to the military. Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: All right. Paula Hancocks, thanks so much there from the border in Gaza and Israel. Our pentagon correspondent is able to join us by phone right now. Some folks had said leading up to this day eight that this was imminent, a ground incursion. Israeli forces making their way into Gaza. Barbara Starr joining us on the phone. And Barbara, Israel didn't keep it to themselves. Apparently they conveyed that plan to the U.S., right?
VOICE OF BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Indeed they did, Fredricka. We can now confirm from a senior U.S. military official that earlier today the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Michael Mullen was informed by his Israeli counterpart, General Gabi Ashkenazi, the Israeli chief of defense staff, informing his U.S. counterpart that the Israelis were about to undertake this action.
The Israelis already had informed the U.S. a few days ago about the air action, today informing the U.S. military through very informal but appropriate channels that they were going to undertake this ground incursion. As we understand it, it was simply a courtesy communication, phone call, between the two men. The Israeli wanting to tell the United States that they were about to do this. You know, to be very clear, any time the U.S. military sees forces on the move around the world, they like to know exactly what's going on, who it is, what intentions they have, what might be happening. This is, you know, the best way in the view of the pentagon to avoid miscalculation or any unexpected consequences. So that would have been part of it.
But by informing the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the Israelis also are clearly aware that provides a channel, a possibility for the information to potentially be passed along to other moderate Arab military forces, military leaders throughout the region, because as some of my colleagues have been pointing out earlier today, there is a good deal of concern about the Arab world, about how people in the Arab world is seeing this. No one wants this to lead to any broader or more widespread instability, especially in the Arab moderate governments that the U.S. hopes can be part of some brokering, some political settlement if it's even at all possible. Fred?
WHITFIELD: So, Barbara, are you able to say whether a phone call like that, from Israel that comes to the Department of Defense and says, OK, we're planning this ground assault now, is there a response from the U.S. that says, OK, green light? Or, OK, we understand where you're coming from? Or does it come out as simply as OK, you're on your own?
STARR: Well, I don't think that there would be a case with the Israeli military where they would seek a U.S. green light. If as we understand it, this was an informational phone call telling the U.S. military that this was about to happen. Again, part of that sort of military to military relationship so there's no miscalculation, no misunderstanding, you know, to be clear, U.S. intelligence watches this area of the world 24/7, satellites overhead imagery, intelligence sources on the ground, U.S. intelligence already has a pretty good idea of what may be there, what may be on the move. But it's sort of the way business is done. You pick up the phone, you call the U.S. military, and you say that you're about to do this, again, to avoid any prospect of any further misunderstanding. And we'll see how it unfolds over the days ahead, whether the U.S. military plays any role in diplomacy, if you will, with other military forces in the region, with other governments in the region in trying to help. I can tell you General David Petraeus now the head of U.S. central command responsible for this whole region also monitoring events around the clock, it just underscores the level of concern about how unsettling the situation is and how no one is sure what really may happen next. Fred.
WHITFIELD: All right. Barbara Starr, Pentagon correspondent on what appears to have been, what turns out to be a courtesy call made by the Israeli government to the department of defense here.
All right. Much more straight ahead, including more on this ground incursion taking place in Gaza. And then in this country some severe weather all across the country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta.
The ground incursion, the Israeli ground incursion into Gaza, well under way. You're looking at some of the latest images coming out this evening there, where you see upwards of 10,000 Israeli troops were amassed along the border there with Gaza, many of whom are believed to be making their way right into Gaza right now at the risk of what could be IEDs, tunnel systems and bunkers that may have been laid out in some of the open areas by Hamas militants.
Our Christiane Amanpour, chief international correspondent, is in Jerusalem.
We're also hearing, Christiane, while the U.N. has planned meetings to talk about this come Monday, we also know around the world there have been a number of protests on both sides, some in support of what Israel is doing and some very much in support of what is taking place in Gaza as well.
What are you hearing from Jerusalem?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Palestinians have been busily (ph) complaining about the disproportionate attacks by Israel in Gaza. And to that end, Tzipi Livni, when asked by Israeli television today, earlier this evening, she was asked about the level of attacks that Israel has already conducted over the last eight days on Gaza, and she said, look, our aim is to stop the Hamas rockets. She said, we're not going to just react proportionately because when we do, or when we react barely at all, they keep firing their rockets. So she is basically insistently saying that they intended to have this huge reaction to the Hamas rockets.
Now, the Palestinians say that before this Israeli attack that started about eight days ago, yes, there were rockets, but over the last year or so, two Israeli civilians were killed. Now, compare that to the last eight days. More than 400 Palestinians inside Gaza, where U.N. talking about at least 25 percent of those killed being civilians, and this is what's generating so much grist for the street around the Arab and Islamic world, also in Europe and in parts of the United States, people demonstrating against these actions in Gaza.
We talked earlier to Mark Regev, the Israeli government spokesman, and he said, look, our goal is not to have any kind of "regime change." We do not want to -- or rather, we don't intend at this point to get Hamas out of Gaza. What we do intend is to get them to understand that they need to stop those rocket attacks and allow Israelis to live in peace alongside -- in their homes, in their towns and villages.
Joining me now is Ben Wedeman, who's our top correspondent here in Israel and has been based nd this region, including around in the Arab world, for so many years.
How do you think this is actually going to play out over the next couple of days? You've got massive Israeli military incursion, now on the ground as well, and you've obviously got these pictures that are coming out, which is the most powerful weapon, perhaps, that Hamas and the Palestinians have.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: It's going to play out very badly, and I can probably make a safe prediction that there will be large demonstrations throughout the Arab world, in Cairo and Amman and elsewhere. And this is the Achilles heel of this operation, is that you've got regimes like Egypt and Jordan, that are considered pro- western, that talk to Israel, that have diplomatic relations with Israel. They're under a lot of pressure from the street which is saying, you've got to do something to put pressure on the Israelis to stop this operation.
Whether it's severing relations with Israel, suspending them, but they're under incredible pressure from public opinion. Not the Arab street, it's public opinion. And it is enraged. It's going to be a problem.
AMANPOUR: Egypt itself, which has a peace agreement, the first to make peace with Israel, has cut its border between -- or, rather, has closed and refuses to open its border between its country and Gaza. Some are calling that courageous. Many in the West are calling that courageous and are saying that actually what the Hosni Mubarak, the president of Egypt, is doing is sending a strong signal that he is not going to come to the rescue of Hamas.
Other sources have told me that some of the Arab leaders have gone so far as to tell Egypt, finish Hamas off.
WEDEMAN: Well, some people call it courageous, but many Arabs call it collaboration, that what Egypt is doing is playing a part, helping Israel crush not Hamas but Gaza it itself. That's how it's perceived.
And of course, Egypt has a definite interest in seeing Hamas weaken because Hamas is what? It's an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is the biggest, most organized, most popular opposition to the Mubarak regime. On the other hand, they have got the street problem. They cannot be seen to be playing hand in hand with the Israelis by shutting off Gaza. There's incredible pressure on the Egyptian government to change this policy, to open the border, to let Gazans flee, Gazans get out, and others to go in with aid, with humanitarian aid.
AMANPOUR: Tell us a little bit about Gaza. You know it so well. You've roamed those alleys and byways for so long.
How is it possible to separate the terrorist infrastructure from the people?
WEDEMAN: It's near impossible. Now, Israel has, over the last few years, collected extremely detailed intelligence on who is in Hamas, what they do, where they live, the weapons, where they are made, where they are stored. But at the end of the day, Hamas isn't just a military organization, it's a political grassroots organization that has schools and hospitals and clinics. And how they're going to separate the two, destroy it militarily but not politically, is going to be near impossible.
AMANPOUR: And right now, how do those civilians, Palestinian civilians in Gaza, seek shelter? We've just been hearing from people there, including U.N. representatives, aid workers who are there, that there's very little electricity, if any at all, that there's very sporadic water. Somebody was saying about three hours of water every 48 hours, that there are no sort of shelters, bomb shelters, per se.
Where do they go when the Israelis drop leaflets saying, get out of the way? Where do they go?
WEDEMAN: Well, there's not too many places they can go. Many of them have gone to the U.N. schools there because the feeling is that that's probably one place that they won't get hit. But by and large, they go to the basements. They go to try to find corridors inside the houses which are protected.
But you've seen the houses in Gaza. Many of them are breeze block. This material does not stop bullets. It doesn't stop anything. And so they're, by and large, exposed, which explains why you always, when there's an Israeli operation, have this huge civilian death toll.
AMANPOUR: Ben, thank you very much, indeed.
And as we wait to see whether there is going to be any stepped-up efforts on the political and diplomatic front, there are top officials from Europe, including the French president, who's coming here and who will be here on Monday, and Tony Blair, the former British prime minister, who is here in his capacity as envoy for the quartet of Russia, the United States, the EU and the United Nations, to see if they can meet with some of the players in the region and try to get some kind of diplomatic end to this.
WHITFIELD: All right. Christiane, thanks so much.
We're going to find out a little bit more about what's taking place on the Israeli/Gaza border. That's where we find our Nic Robertson there.
Nic, what are you witnessing?
All right. We'll be checking in with Nic Robertson straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: The Israeli ground incursion is under way in Gaza. This, on the eighth day of this conflict between Israel and Gaza. And we understand, based on New numbers coming from Palestinian medical sources, that over the past eight days, now 460 Palestinians have been killed, 2,700 injured just over the past week.
Our Nic Robertson is there on the border with Israel and Gaza bringing us his perspective -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, we're as close as we're allowed to get to the front line of the operation. Just behind me, you can see Israeli army soldiers manning a checkpoint. They are stopping people, stopping the journalists, stopping other people going further down the road.
The only vehicles that pass behind us are soldiers that are going further forward. And there is one small Israeli village a little closer to the border, which is about two miles away from us right now, and those people from that village are allowed through. But what we can see and hear from here, we can hear the helicopters flying overhead, we can see and hear some of the missiles being fired. We can hear some of the impacts of the big explosions.
It is not clear thus far exactly how many troops are involved in this ground incursion, whether or not they actually got into direct combat with Hamas, and whether or not there have been any casualties so far. But this is as close to that operation as we're able to get right now -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Nic Robertson, senior international correspondent, joining us there from the Israel/Gaza border.
Thanks so much. We'll check back with you.
All right. Well, what is it like to be in Gaza? As you heard from Nic, it's difficult for any international journalist to get into Gaza to find out the point of view of the Palestinians, people living while all this is under way.
We've been able to reach out to a psychiatrist, Dr. Eyad el-Sarraj. He's in Gaza City. He has also written an op-ed for "The Washington Post" tomorrow, and it's an extraordinary read already.
Dr. el-Sarraj, thanks so much for being with us.
You write about the fear that you and your family have had with the airstrikes taking place. Describe for me what you've been experiencing over the past few days. DR. EYAD EL-SARRAJ, PALESTINIAN INDEPENDENT COMM. FOR HUMAN RIGHTS: Well, it's really terrifying. I'm a psychiatrist and trying to deal with the anxieties of people here, but it is difficult indeed.
I've been trying to cope with my family, with my children, with my neighbors, with my patients who keep calling me, and friends also. It's been really very difficult.
Gaza has become a ghost town because of the fear, people frightened to go out because of the Israeli bombing. And, of course, some of the people have terrible atrocities.
Before the article I published, Nor (ph), my stepdaughter, had lost her girlfriend yesterday. She was killed although she was Christian, she had nothing to do with Hamas. And today she lost her school.
Israel has bombed the American International School in Gaza, which Nor (ph) goes to that school. It's completely flat out.
They also killed some people praying in a mosque. It's been very, very difficult. Very difficult indeed for us, and especially for the hospital to try and care for the wounded who are in the thousands now.
And I know from the siege that was there for over one and a half years by the Israelis, hospital facilities are really meager and very basic. And it's difficult for them to call and tell personnel in terms of medical equipment, surgical instruments and so on. It's a very difficult life here.
And on top of that, the people are deprived of the basic commodities that they need in their homes. And on top of that, they don't have the cash because banks have been closed now for some time and Israel has bombed the money exchange offices. So people, they need to buy things, they cannot even have the cash to do it.
And it is such a tremendous -- my office, overlooking the beach of Gaza, was hit not directly. It hit something else, but in the process, the headquarter of the Gaza community (INAUDIBLE) was -- all the windows were shot out, all the doors were dislocated, and some of the doors (ph) have been destroyed. So it's really a very difficult life we are living in here, and with fear you have to care for the children and think about their future.
WHITFIELD: And Doctor, among those difficulties that you were talking about, that you also wrote about in this opinion page that will be in tomorrow's "Washington Post," you say there's a shortage of food. You can't get any rice, you can't get flour, you can't get lentils for soup. It's been very difficult for just basic sustenance.
EL-SARRAJ: Yes, it has been very difficult, indeed. You know, I'm one of the very few fortunate people who have been able to buy some food before the war started because I thought that something was going to happen. But even so, I'm still missing some commodities and some basic food that I need for my house that are not available.
You know, before the war, I bought a special oven made of mud. That is a very primitive way of cooking bread, making bread, because I thought that we need to eat. And now this is how we cook our bread now, in a very primitive way, because power is not there, cooking gas is not there.
And I am very fortunate that something people are helping me with that, but look at the majority of people in Gaza who are suffering, particularly those who are living in the refugee camp, totally dependent on the U.N. charity food. And I'll tell you, if it was not for the U.N. giving them food, there would be a real famine in Gaza.
WHITFIELD: Well, Doctor Eyad el-Sarraj, we appreciate your time, and we wish you and your family safe cover over these very indefinite few days.
Thanks so much.
All right. Meantime, speaking of the U.N., you heard from the doctor talking about being thankful that there has been some U.N. help. We also understand there were going to be a series of U.N. meetings this weekend, then postponed, rescheduled until Monday. Now we have information that yet an emergency meeting will be taking place as early as this evening.
Our U.N. correspondent Richard Roth is on the phone with us now.
Richard, what can you tell us?
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Well, there will be a U.N. Security Council meeting at 7:00 New York time, closed-door consultations to start, perhaps -- I think we can expect a statement, if all nations agree, a statement of condemnation on Israel's movement into Gaza.
The United States would sit definitely and be ready to block any significant diplomatic action against Israel. There is a resolution that's on the table for the last few days, but that is, according to the United States, one-sided and not balanced.
This was -- you're watching -- these were scenes of a few days ago, on New Year's Eve, when the Security Council met to speak out, and there was a split among the council members regarding Israel's air assaulon on Gaza. Libya, who you just saw, the Libyan ambassador, saying, "We don't want another Srebrenica or Rwanda, showing the rhetoric felt among the Arab nations who are angry about what's happening there. So that's tonight, closed-door consultations in a few hours, and a probable statement regarding the latest events there.
WHITFIELD: All right. U.N. Correspondent Richard Roth.
Thanks so much for joining us on what will now be a U.N. Security Council meeting taking place 7:00 tonight.
All right. Our Nic Robertson is, of course, on the border there, Gaza and Israel. We'll be joining him again momentarily.
Much more of our coverage right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: All right. Israeli ground incursion under way.
You're looking at images from -- on the left, you're seeing the results of air assault. They continue, while on the right, you're seeing night vision photography there showing the troops, what could be upwards of 10,000 Israeli troops, making their way into Gaza.
An all-out war under way by many different accounts. The U.N. is having an emergency Security Council meeting this evening, 7:00, to talk about this.
Our Nic Robertson is there on the border, on the Israeli side, about two miles away or so from Gaza. He joins us now to give us an idea of what you're hearing and experiencing and what the expectations just might be, Nic.
ROBERTSON: Well, Fredricka, right now you can see more army vehicles going past me, going into the Gaza area. This is one of the main entry points for troops supporting the operation there.
One of the big questions right now has to be, exactly how many troops are involved in this ground incursion? Is it a small force with a very limited objective? Are they going to be joined by other troops? Or is it right now already a very big force?
That just isn't clear at the moment. The stated objective by the Israeli government and by the Israeli Defense Forces is to secure some of those launch sites that Hamas is using to launch rockets that have been firing further and further into Israel.
According to the Israeli government, some 900,000 people are within range of those Hamas rockets, and it is those launch sites that the troops are now targeting. From here, we have heard the explosions, seen the flashes, seen some of the missiles fired and heard the helicopters.
Right now, though, that fire and the helicopters, it's relatively sporadic, which sort of gives the indication, at least from our vantage point, which is as close as we can get, that there's not a huge intensity, it's not pounding after pounding after pounding, helicopter after helicopter. So it gives the impression from this distance at least that this may be a relatively limited incursion. But it's part of a very -- what we've been told by Israeli officials to expect, a potentially very long operation, Fredricka. So this could just be the very beginning and potentially just a small step at this stage.
WHITFIELD: Yes. The Israeli defense minister, Ehud Barak, said earlier that this will not be short nor will it be easy.
Can you give us a description, Nic, about what those Israeli soldiers might be encountering as they try to sesecure certain areas? It's not going to be a cakewalk, for sure. ROBERTSON: Absolutely, it's not going to be a cakewalk, because Hamas has promised already, threatened, in fact, in statements by officials, that they will have essentially mined some of the roads and routes going in. They promise a bloodbath, that they will kill the Israeli troops, that they will kidnap them.
Indeed, the Hamas spokesman today essentially said that the Israeli Defense Forces and the Israeli government will have to go through an ignominious retreat, that they will have to pull out of Gaza unconditionally, that they won't achieve their objectives. One of the objectives, as well as these launch sites, has been all these tunnels that link Gaza into Egypt.
Now, the incursion is not at that end where all those tunnels are. However, we do know that some of the Israeli troops have had special training in how to locate tunnels, in how to enter tunnels, these tunnels that are hidden in buildings. And the launch sites are very likely connected to areas where those missiles are secured and stored underground.
So one of the things that troops are going to have to do is not only locate the launch areas, but locate the areas perhaps hidden in tunnels below the ground where the missiles are hidden. And we understand that some of them, at least some of those Israeli troops, have had special training for that.
But the other problem that the troops are going to face is that some areas they're going into are going to be densely populated areas, full of civilians. They will have had training to deal with that.
The defense minister, Ehud Barak, has said he is very aware of the humanitarian situation, and that the Israeli government will do what it can to address the humanitarian needs in Gaza. But of course, a big fear for many in the international community watching this situation right now is that when Israeli troops go in there, there could be high civilian casualties. And that is what has the international community and those diplomats at the U.N. in New York right now watching this so intensely -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: In part, that is the case, Nic, because it will be difficult for some Israeli troops to be able to discern the difference between Hamas militants and civilians, folks simply blending in together. Or are we talking that the concern is coming because of the kind of artillery or gunfire that may take place immediately?
ROBERTSON: Well, I think there's been a level of concern expressed already because some of the aerial strikes have resulted in civilian deaths, unintended civilian deaths. The Israeli government has been very clear that all the sites they have been targeting specifically for Hamas, they do everything that they can, they say, to avoid civilian casualties. Their targets are Hamas.
But in this type of incursion, where you have troops on the ground rather than airstrikes, and where Hamas is known like other groups, Hezbollah in the south of Lebanon, to locate their firing points and to hide their troops in and among the civilian population, it is clear to everyone who understands this type of operation. And the Israeli Defense Forces probably understand this better than anyone else, because they're trained in these types of operations, and this is a threat, an environment that they are very familiar with.
It doesn't diminish, however, the possibility and likelihood there will be civilian casualties. They know that Hamas don't walk around in uniforms. They know that Hamas are going to try and blend in civilian properties. And this is why there is this risk.
And this is why the Israeli Defense Forces today dropped leaflets from the air warning people in Gaza that if they were anywhere near militants, that if they're anywhere near weapons, anywhere near ammunition, than they should move away, because the Israeli Defense Forces, again, wanting to be clear, wanting to be very clear in all of this, that they're not targeting the civilian population. This is a message we've heard from Israeli government ministers through the week, but it was back-tucked today right before this ground incursion by that big leaflet drop -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Yes. I guess part of the problem though underscored by people who are actually there in Gaza and other Palestinians familiar with it saying, OK, you drop those leaflets, but people don't really have anyplace to go. It's not like they can just essentially cross the border and seek refuge. So it is indeed going to be a pretty unpredictable affair.
Thanks so much.
Nic Robertson, senior international correspondent, there, right there on the border between Gaza and Israel.
My colleague Don Lemon is going to take it from here. Much more in the NEWSROOM, where we continue to delve into this ground incursion that only promises to grow worse.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, to grow worse. And some people are saying they expected this to happen, to turn to a ground war, not exactly sure when it was going to. Some people thought it was going to be over the Christmas holidays, but we're seeing now that it did happen soon after -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Yes. And of course now the big problem is the exit strategy.
LEMON: Yes.
WHITFIELD: Is there one? And what is it?
LEMON: And how long is this going on? I heard earlier an interview earlier with them saying this is going to take some time. It's going to be quite a while.
WHITFIELD: It's going to be long.
LEMON: Thank you, Fredricka. Appreciate your coverage. Very nice coverage throughout the afternoon.
