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Details of the Israeli Incursion into Gaza
Aired January 03, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM CLANCY, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN's continuing coverage of the crisis in the Middle East. The explosion that's caused that, one of many seen over the Gaza Strip in just several hours now, since Israeli troops began moving into Palestinian territory, retaking ground they had left behind, and striking fear into the hearts of more than a million people who wonder how far will this go, and when will it end.
To our viewers in the United States and around the world, welcome, I'm Jim Clancy. It's 2:00 in the morning right now in Gaza City and in Jerusalem. Let's get you to the latest from what's going on.
The Israeli offensive in Gaza is entering a dramatic new phase. Just hours ago, thousands of Israeli troops poured across the border into Gaza. Huge explosions, gunfire and artillery shelling, lighting up the night sky -- some coming from the air, some from the ground, some from the sea. Israel reports its goal: Stop those Hamas rocket attacks on southern Israel. Hamas is countering now that Israeli troops are going to find their own graves in Gaza.
There are international calls for a ceasefire, of course. The United Nations Security Council is holding an emergency meeting this hour on the crisis. Unclear how much can be done with that. But the question on so many minds, really, when will this all be over?
Senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, right in the thick of things along the Israeli-Gaza border, is joining us now.
Nic, from the Israeli statements that had been made, when should people expect this to drawdown?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not any time soon, Jim. And it is been very clear from what Israeli government officials have said, this is a long operation. The ground offensive is the second phase of it after the week-long air campaign. The defense minister today said that this will be a long operation.
We know that the Israeli targets as the government has laid out, the Hamas areas where they fire rockets from, that's in the area right behind me. Also the tunnels at the south end of the Gaza Strip that link Gaza into Egypt, there are some 300 tunnels, and there have been a lot of air strikes along there today as there have been over the past week. According to Israeli defense force, perhaps only about 100 of those 300 tunnels damaged so far.
But what we've been able to see from this vantage point, where I'm overlooking the Gaza Strip right now, is that while the operation has gone on, the lights that illuminate the urban built-up areas of Gaza have steadily gone out. It did is getting darker behind me, Jim. There were more lights on. And this seems to be an indication that perhaps some of the power grid is being taken out, the electricity perhaps being switched off to some parts of Gaza.
There's an area over my shoulder here that is now very, very dark where earlier on it had been -- there had been many more lights there. We've seen some very, very heavy explosions in that area. Explosions that just cascade up and illuminate the sky like very, very bright and strong fireworks, for want of a better description. Of course, for anyone caught nearby, they are incredibly lethal, Jim.
CLANCY: One of the goals that Israel has to have in all of this, Nic, is to stop those missiles from being fired. But now, with the greater range that we have seen, even in the past few days, that may be very difficult, indeed, to do.
ROBERTSON: Well, some of the missiles that Hamas has employed in this past week have never been seen before by Israelis. They've got a range now of up to -- up to almost 30 miles, 40-plus kilometers, putting many, many more -- many, many more Israeli civilians at risk according to the Israeli government. Almost 1 million civilians are now at risk.
So, where do you go to secure all those launch sites? Well, if Hamas wanted to put them in the heart of Gaza City or the heart of Jabalia refugee camp, two locations that would be virtually impossible to imagine Israeli troops going into without again -- for want of a better description -- a major bloodbath, because they are so densely populated. If Hamas choose to launch the rockets from there, it'd be very, very tough to go in and secure those areas.
The defense minister today, Ehud Barak, is saying that they would -- they would diminish and almost stop Hamas' rocket firing. But it was clear that he wasn't saying that they expected to stop them completely and utterly, which is a subtle shift and change in language that we've seen over earlier in the week where they said that they wanted -- the government wanted to completely stop the rockets being fired. So, perhaps an indication from Israeli officials, sort of tamping down expectations a little bit in advance of this ground operation, because it's so incredibly tough -- Jim?
CLANCY: Nic, one of our producers there -- I think very near to your location -- said that they saw, they eyewitnessed a handful of rockets going. They didn't no the exact number. Have you seen anything in the last hour?
ROBERTSON: We haven't seen rockets, and we haven't had accounts of them. It doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. Earlier on, you know, earlier in the day, rockets were fired from here. Those are very clear to see. In the past couple of days, we've seen rockets fired from here. But in the past hour, I can't say that we've seen it here, Jim.
CLANCY: All right.
ROBERTSON: But again, it doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. CLANCY: All right. Nic Robertson, our CNN international correspondent there along the border area with Israel, inside Israel looking on at Gaza, giving us an up-to-the-minute report.
Let's go to New York now. There's going to be a lot of diplomacy taking place there as the U.N. Security Council meets in emergency session. Asaf Shariv is Israel's consul general to New York.
What do you expect to see come in this Security Council meeting?
ASAF SHARIV, ISRAELI CONSUL GEN. TO NEW YORK: I expect the international community to continue support what Israel is doing right now. Everybody who is in favor of peace and negotiation between us and the Palestinians in the future, everybody who believes that there should be a Palestinian state should support what the Israel is doing right now.
CLANCY: We had just talked a few minutes ago to the Palestinian representative at the United Nations, and they say that they are outraged, that this is not proportional in its response. It has already caused thousands of casualties, whether they are deaths or people wounded, many of those casualties, almost 100, are of children. And people are very concerned. What is going to be Israel's response?
SHARIV: I heard Ambassador Mansour. And Ambassador Mansour (INAUDIBLE) that they cannot go into Gaza because Hamas will kill them as soon as they lay their foot there. So, they are saying now what they have to say, but truth is, if they want to continue with the negotiations with Israel, close to (ph) a state solution, and I believe they do. They understand that they cannot do it as long as Hamas control Gaza.
And what is proportional? You know, if the proportional reaction from the state of Israel was to shoot back missiles into the most -- into the cities of Gaza, to kill hundreds of people, would that be proportional? Of course not. Israel's done everything in its power to reduce the number of civilian casualties. We have been very successful in that.
I think the numbers you are hearing from the Palestinian ambassador are not correct or accurate. I think we have -- more than 88 percent of the casualties are terrorist and members of Hamas organization.
CLANCY: Sir, as this goes forward, the Arab side is supporting the placement of some kind of monitors there. Does Israel support U.N. monitors or European monitors going in to Gaza?
SHARIV: Right now, we are trying to make sure that our citizens -- we talked before about the citizens of Gaza -- 1 million citizen of Israel are in the shelters not for one week, not for two weeks, ever since Israel withdraw from Gaza. All these proposals I think could have come a lot earlier before Israel had to go preemptive response.
CLANCY: So, Israel is supporting (ph) that?
SHARIV: We had no choice but to go to this operation. Right now, we are doing but we have to make sure we -- of course, we are continuing the negotiation with the international community to find a solution for this situation. But we want to make sure that this ceasefire will be a durable one, and one that makes sure that the day after the ceasefire, they won't shoot back.
CLANCY: The risks that this, like Lebanon, could come back to haunt the Israeli government -- that is that those that were firing the rockets will still have the capability to do that after all of the military operations have ended?
SHARIV: I think they'll have the capability but I'm not sure they will be ready to shoot the day after. And by the way, in Lebanon, we are 2 1/2 years and we're very quiet after the operation. And I think in Gaza, the reality will change, and I'm not sure, and I'm pretty sure that Hamas won't shoot the day after, there would be some kinds of a ceasefire.
CLANCY: Just a final question to you, what about the people that are all across southern Israel? So many of them are outside of their homes tonight? So many of them, if they are at home, are still wondering when the missiles will stop. Any indication from the Israeli military about that?
SHARIV: I don't anticipate that the missiles will stop in the coming days. They will do everything in their power to shoot back.
But I just came back from Israel, and the citizens of Israel are very firm because after -- and strong because after three years since of this engagement that Israel has restrained itself. And these people were in the shelters, four, five, eight times a day, they feel that now is the time to hit back and to make sure that it won't happen to them again. So, the citizens of Israel, although they're in the shelters right now, are very strong and firm.
CLANCY: Asaf Shariv, Israel's consul general there in New York City. I want to thank you very much, sir, for being with us.
SHARIV: Thank you.
CLANCY: So, how did we get here? Let's take a look back at the sequence of events in this week's violence in Gaza.
The current conflict began December 27th, waves of Israeli air strikes. For the next two days, bombs fell across Gaza. They hit everything from refugee camps to the Islamic university in Gaza City. They also hit underground tunnels that cross various borders.
Israel began striking Hamas government buildings on the 29th then. By the 30th, quartet powers were pushing a proposal for a two-day truce to allow humanitarian aid to get in to Gaza. But that was rejected the next day by Israel. Also on the 1st of January, a leading Hamas commander, Nizar Riyan, was killed in Israeli strikes along with his family.
The air campaign has continued even as the ground assault has gotten under way in the last six hours or so. Now, we heard from Israeli and Hamas leaders as the ground offensive began, both sides -- as you can imagine -- had very strong words about the situation, about what was ahead.
Our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, is covering the story in Jerusalem. She has this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Israel is calling up thousands of its reserve officers, as it continues with what's now become a ground offensive in to Gaza. The Israeli defense minister, Ehud Barak, in a public statement, said that their goal is to neutralize the Hamas rockets that have been coming out of Gaza and hitting into Israeli cities across the border.
EHUD BARAK, ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER: We are peace keepers. We have restrained ourselves for a long time but now is the time to do what needs to be done. We are determined to afford our citizens what any citizen anywhere in the world is entitled to -- peace, tranquility and freedom from threat.
AMANPOUR: And as the war continues, so does the war of words. As Ehud Barak was making his statement, so, too, were Hamas from inside Gaza. They said they would be defiant and continue the fight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): To the Israeli army, your incursion in Gaza will not be a picnic. And we promise you that Gaza will be your cemetery, God willing. You have no choice but to end this aggression and the siege without any conditions. You will not live in peace until our Palestinian people live in peace.
We will not abandon the battlefield, and we will stay on the thorny course. And we will fight until the last breath.
AMANPOUR: The ground incursion comes after eight days of round-the- clock air strikes by Israel on targets inside Gaza. And this, too, has contributed to the drama of this ongoing war, because the pictures coming out of Gaza have inflamed the Muslim and the Arab world, also pockets in Europe and in United States.
As many of those who've been hit are children and women and other civilians. More than 460 Palestinians in Gaza have been hit according to sources there. And more than 2,000 have been wounded. A U.N. official inside Gaza says, of all of those, at least a quarter have been civilians.
An Israeli government spokesman says that this ground offensive is not aimed at wiping out Hamas but merely aimed, he says, at trying to stop them launching their rockets into Israel.
Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CLANCY: Well, to talk a little bit more about this military operation, the civilians, what's going on with diplomacy in New York this hour, at the United Nations, we're joined from Washington by Aaron David Miller. He's a former adviser to six secretaries of state on the Arab-Israeli peace process. He's been there the whole way.
Aaron David Miller, thanks a lot for being with us.
AARON DAVID MILLER, WOODROW WILSON CENTER: It's a pleasure.
CLANCY: You know, they're going to meet at the Security Council, and there's a lot of people saying that we're going to call -- we're going to condemn Israel's moves here. France, even, has come out very strongly in condemning this -- what they're calling an escalation -- by this ground offensive. But are they going to get anywhere in that, the Security Council?
MILLER: Eventually, they will. And the model here, I suspect, is the Israeli-Lebanon war in July and August of '06.
CLANCY: That was 30 days.
MILLER: It took weeks. But then again, once you insert yourself on the ground, the whole equation changes. Not only do you have unexpected catastrophes, but you also may have opportunities.
I mean, the Israelis want to destroy launchers. They want to seize launch and ground. They want to destroy weapons caches. They want to kill cadre. They want to ensure that when this is over, Hamas does not find itself in the same position that Hezbollah did, launching more rockets the day before the ceasefire was agreed than on any given day during the 34-day preceding period.
And that's going to be extremely difficult and will require an outside ladder so that both Israel and Hamas can climb down.
CLANCY: You know, we're looking at a situation where, yes, they're going to be able to take over some of those northern Gaza areas that are not inside Gaza City. They will likely take over an area along the southern strip there -- because one of the other objectives has to be to do away with those tunnels that are source of a lot of the armaments that had been coming in there. But that risk that those missiles will still fly is going to be there.
MILLER: It is -- which is why you're going to have to have some sort of mechanism which is going to deal with the crossing points, the tunnels, and the use of high trajectory weapons -- the Grads, the Katyushas and the mortars.
CLANCY: But then -- you know, and I said this before to people, that, you know, if Hamas agrees to all of this, it becomes Fatah. You know, it's supposed to be the face. It's brand is supposed to be that it is more militant. It confronts. It fights Israel over the occupation that has gone on for over 41 years. If it gives all of that up and signs a peace treaty, it's not Hamas anymore.
MILLER: I'm not arguing at the end of the day you're going to turn Hamas into Yasser Arafat's PLO or even Mahmoud Abbas' PLO. And you've got to separate out the issue of a ceasefire from any longer term political accommodations which deals with the core issues. We're a long, long way away from that. And this situation is going to get worse before it gets worse.
CLANCY: Well, and Hamas is going to get more popular. They were suffering a bit. And I think you can give us a little bit of your insight into this -- but as those Arab leaders and other leaders get together, there's no shortage of them, even on the Arab side, that would like to see Hamas taken down a notch here and especially, since they see Iran is playing the Palestinian card behind all of this.
MILLER: That's a given. One of the political laws of gravity, however, is that Palestinians manage to become angrier at the Israelis, and by implication, the United States, than they ever would be against their own leaders. Otherwise, it's difficult to explain how, in the last two years, even though Hamas has managed to reassert control in Gaza, the economic conditions for most Palestinians there have been abysmal. No economic growth, no economic assistance, it's essentially just a question of trying to get by through barter and low-level trade.
So, I think that's the real paradox here. You're not going to get the Palestinian authority riding in to Gaza on the back of Israeli tanks trying to impose their control. This is going to be resolved temporarily by an outside agent, whether it's the U.N. Security Council, the EU, Egypt, and/or all of the above.
CLANCY: OK. The final question, you know, and I'm used to talking to you. You've spent your whole life working to establish peace. Here you are talking about the conflict and how that unfolds.
What we heard from prime minister -- we heard from Ehud Barak, the defense minister, a short time ago, and he said, "Now, we need to do what needs to be done." When? When this is all over what needs to be done?
MILLER: When this is all over, if the Palestinians can manage to unite a dysfunctional and divided Palestinian house, and if there is an Israeli prime minister and a Palestinian leader willing and able to meet one another's respective needs. It may be that a new administration, the one that's coming in, may have an opportunity to do what none of its predecessors have done before. But it's going to require an excruciating amount of pain and effort, courage and creativity. But I would argue to you, in the end, what's the alternative?
CLANCY: Aaron David Miller, thank you for calling it like it is. Not a very rosy scenario, but at the same time, a very honest one.
MILLER: Thanks.
CLANCY: Our coverage of the crisis in the Middle East is far from over. We're just really getting started. We're going to cover it nonstop.
We'll give you a live look at Gaza City right now. That's what it looks like -- more of the lights going out. It is the middle of the night. As you can imagine, there's probably very few people who are really sleeping there.
Let's take a short break. On the other side, the latest from Rafah border. Karl Penhaul is on the ground.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CLANCY: You're looking at some night scope video here that we're getting in. Remember that this is magnifying a light that's there many times over. This is northern Gaza.
And it may give us some indication, this is where, as Nic Robertson, our senior international correspondent, has been telling us over the course here of hours, this is the source of where some of the rocket fire is coming from Gaza into southern Israel. That a given, as a target for the Israeli forces that began moving in to Gaza across the boundary line there from Israel. Just about six hours ago. It's an operation that may take a long time, according to the Israelis.
Hospitals are overflowing in Gaza, casualties in the hallways, in the rooms, on the floor, in some cases. Some Palestinians are getting treatment in Egypt.
Karl Penhaul joins us from the Egyptian side of the Rafah border crossing.
Karl, I understand even the king and queen of Jordan became involved, sending a plane to Al-Arish to try to bring some of the wounded Palestinians out.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly there has been a concerted effort to try and get some of those wounded out from Gaza. But there's only really been a trickle of people coming across. I'm told by public health officials in this area that in the course of the last week, only about 100 Palestinians have come across for treatment in Egyptian hospitals.
And when I was here at the border today, about 15 came across in the course of the day. Now, of course, they're pretty much bound by the kind of fuel that the Palestinians ambulances can get to bring them from a little further north to the border here. Also, those Palestinian ambulances are pretty ramshackle in some cases. And then one thing here, then they are carried onto much more modern Egyptian ambulances.
But beyond the wounded coming across, one of the real questions there is: What will it take for Egypt to open its borders to allow Palestinian refugees to come across, the healthy ones that simply want to flee the Gaza Strip, because they're terrified of aerial bombardment and they're terrified of the ground incursion going on? There's certainly no sign that Egypt is going to do that. And, so what we have is 1.5 million Palestinians essentially fish in a barrel there. There is nowhere for them to run, Jim.
CLANCY: Well, there have been many problems in the past, on that borderline. At one point, it was completely overwhelmed, and it is believed that that was staged by Hamas. But what is the security presence down there by Egyptian forces?
PENHAUL: Well, in this area, the security force here is the police force, and there has been a very heavy police presence between the road between Rafah and Al-Arish, the nearest biggest town to the border. And riot police have turned out. They've been standing throughout the course of the day along the side roads, and in Al-Arish itself. Riot police have been there, and not only in preparation for any possible arrival of Palestinian refugees if that were to happen again, but also to keep back a little bit of protesting.
As we're speaking here, Jim, now, I just want to mention something that I'm hearing now. Once again, I'm hearing bursts of heavy machine-gun fire, possibly no more than half a kilometer away across on the Gazan side. Over the past two hours or so, we have heard sporadic heavy machine-gun fire. That could possibly be coming from Hamas positions.
We have also, periodically, heard a response from Israeli forces. We've heard either missiles being fired from helicopters slamming into positions on the ground, or possibly they were artillery shells.
We've also heard in the last few minutes, as well, the sound of helicopters going ahead. Now those sounds are too heavy and too slow- moving to be Apache attack helicopters. I suspect they may, in fact, be troop transport helicopters. They could, in fact, be putting Israeli troops on the ground, just across the border there, just beyond Rafah, Jim.
CLANCY: All right. Karl Penhaul, keeping watch there on the fighting as it goes ahead on what are the options for Rafah, what are the options for Egypt, and the obvious question of what happens when perhaps tens of thousands try to get out of Gaza. And that is one of the only exits.
Well, we're going to take a short break here. We'll have more on the diplomatic front and more on the military front -- straight ahead. You're watching CNN's continuing coverage of crisis in Gaza.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JIM CLANCY, CNN HOST: Welcome back, I'm Jim Clancy. We continue to follow nonstop the crisis in the Middle East. The eyes of the world are on what's happening in Gaza this hour. I want to bring you up to date. The latest that we know, Israeli troops pouring across the border into Gaza. The exact numbers have not been released. That's to be expected. Their goal, though, to do battle with Hamas militants, to halt rocket attacks on southern Israel. That we certainly do know.
Israeli leaders say the operation likely will not be easy, and it won't be short, either. But they say they do not plan to reoccupy Gaza. The ground assault follows eight days of punishing air strikes in which Palestinian sources say at least 460 people have been killed. And some 2,750 wounded.
International reaction has been swift. The U.N. security council is holding an emergency meeting. The U.S. State Department says it is working toward, toward a ceasefire. Some diplomats say that could take weeks. Over at the United Nations, an emergency meeting of Arab delegates and strong reaction from Secretary-general Ban Ki-Moon, senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth is there at the U.N. with more. Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Jim, the members of the U.N. security council are behind closed doors now. Tricky road ahead diplomatically. If they're going to get all 15 countries to agree on these words, they're going to have to put some language in place that appeals to everyone, even as this ground offensive is under way. The United States is going to stand sharply by Israel.
One delegate told me he didn't think the United States would approve of any statement tonight. Giving Israel more diplomatic breathing room. There is a statement that's being circulated that says the members of the security council expressed serious concern at the escalation of the situation in Gaza, in particular after the launching of the Israeli ground offensive and called on the pearls to observe an immediate ceasefire and its full respect and they called on the parties to "stop immediately all military activities."
There was a statement early Sunday morning a week ago to the press which Israel and Hamas have ignored. The Palestinian envoy to the United Nations Riyad Mansour says this meeting is urgent tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RIYAD MANSOUR, PALESTINIAN ENVOY TO THE U.N.: What is at stake now is we need to stop this aggression immediately. The continuation of this aggression is destabilizing the entire region. Destroying efforts for the possibilities of political negotiation, and radicalizing the entire region, not only the Arab region but beyond. And to push people into extremism, both sides, it is not an investment in the direction of moving in the direction of peace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Now, it's an interesting scene a few minutes ago. The security council was accused of being dysfunctional by the president of the general assembly. He is from Nicaragua, a former foreign minister, a former Sandinista, foreign minister D'Escoto. He said what Israel is doing now is monstrous. He said he's speaking only in his personal capacity. He also issued a blistering statement one week ago after the air assault on Gaza was announced. So Jim, we're going to be watching some closed-door consultations that are expected to go for awhile. We'll let you know what the outcome is.
CLANCY: You stay right there for a second. I just want to explain to our viewers, Richard, the picture that they're seeing there. That greenish tinge there, that's a CNN camera with night scope video, showing - there you get to hear a little bit. Let's Listen.
Showing the scene. This is northern Gaza. CNN journalists have not been able, as international journalists, to get into Gaza. The Israeli military has declared it a closed military zone. We're trying to cover this story from all angles. Of course we have, and we talked to Palestinians, see their video from inside the Gaza strip.
But there's a lot of people tonight, Richard Roth, that are hoping against hope that this is going to be over sometime soon. I mean realistically what should people expect to come out of that security council emergency session? A very mildly worded call for all sides to lay down their arms? Or to cease shooting?
ROTH: I think that you're going to see a mildly worded statement which may have some bite, but bite that may have been lost since we've seen appeals for ceasefires and for cessation of hostilities for a week now that kind of have lost their impact.
France has issued a statement condemning Israel's move but also complaining about what Hamas has been doing. The United States, Sean McCormick, the state department spokesman in a statement, has said we are reminding Israel that any military action needs to be considering potential consequences to civilians. But that's at the end of a three paragraph statement which says that Hamas is continuing to launch rockets, and Israel in effect must defend itself. That any ceasefire should take place as soon as possible. But it must be durable and sustainable. Not time limited.
So here at the U.N., they're going to be awaiting the arrival of Palestinian leader Abbas, though he doesn't control Gaza. That's in the next few days. I think it's still more words, Israel does not feel it has anything to fear yet from the security council with the United States to support it as long as Hamas is firing rockets.
CLANCY: All right. Richard Roth there at the United Nations Security Council to meet behind closed doors. Richard, keep us posted in case there are any surprises. People shouldn't expect too much, as Richard was telling us, the state department spokesman Sean McCormick did come out with a statement a little while saying the United States wants to work toward a durable and sustainable ceasefire. He blamed Hamas as Richard pointed out, he said Hamas has held the people of Gaza hostage ever since its illegal coup against the forces of President Mahmoud Abbas. They've used Gaza as a launching pad for rockets against Israeli cities and have contributed deeply for a very bad, daily life for the Palestinian people.
In Gaza and to a humanitarian situation that we have all been trying to address. Well, Hamas has made it very difficult said McCormick, the state department spokesman. "Hamas has made it very difficult for the people of Gaza to have a reasonable life." The statement also went on to say the U.S. is deeply concerned about the protection of innocents, and expressed its concerns to the Israeli government.
All right. That's what's coming out here. People are at this hour very concerned about the people in Gaza. There were leaflets dropped earlier that told them to evacuate. But when we talk to the people inside the Gaza strip tonight, many of them have very limited and they report they are without they say where could we go? Many of them are very limited and they report that they're without communications and they're without electricity at this point.
Let's find out more about Israel's standpoint now, as this operation has gotten under way. Chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour is there in Israel. She talked with a government spokesman, Mark Regev. Let's give it a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARK REGEV, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: If you're asking what the goal of the operation is, it's simple. We want to create a situation where the civilian population in southern Israel is no longer on the receiving end of those deadly Hamas rockets. When quiet can be achieved this operation can finish.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How can quiet be achieved? Let's just go back to 2006,with Israel's war against Hezbollah, which has many similarities to this one. Israel went after waves of air strikes, went in on the ground, those rockets almost didn't stop. Hezbollah fought Israel to a draw. What do you really think you can achieve here in Gaza?
REGEV: I think we've learned some important lessons since 2006. I think those lessons you can already see in the way the Israeli military has acted in the last week. And we are confident we can achieve a situation with a Hamas leadership understands clearly that it's simply not in their interests for them to continue shooting rockets at Israeli civilians.
AMANPOUR: So is the point, as foreign minister Tzipi Livni said today to get them to stop shooting those rockets? Is the point to pound them so hard and then stop with the warning that if they start again you'll pound them? What precisely is the point when you probably know that you're not going to wipe them out?
REGEV: We haven't articulated regime change in this operation. Our goal is truly defensive to protect our people. To protect those half a million Israelis in the south of my country who have been living on the receiving end of these deadly rockets. When that is achieved the operation will be over. If it can be achieved tomorrow the operation will be over tomorrow.
AMANPOUR: Are there any realistic diplomatic moves for either a ceasefire or some kind of internationally backed resolution to this, a monitoring, for instance, on the borders of Gaza?
REGEV: There are all sorts of talks going on. But I have to say what is clear, we don't need a Band-aid solution here. We don't need to go back to where we were a week ago. We won't agree to that. We have to have a solution that is sustainable. That is durable. We don't want again to see all those Israelis living in the south, fearing day to day the terror of an incoming Hamas rocket. That is an unacceptable reality and we refuse to return to that.
AMANPOUR: But again, clearly this is going to be a political resolution in the end. It's not going to be one militarily as you saw in - with the Hezbollah war and as you just said you don't want regime change in Gaza. So how are you going to come to an accommodation, a realistic accommodation that what you're doing now actually is more than just a Band-aid? REGEV: I think Hamas is understanding today that shooting rockets at Israeli civilian targets is simply unacceptable. They are paying an extremely high price for that. And I think they'll understand that it's better to keep quiet in the south. They've alienated not only large parts of the international community, not only large parts of the Arab world, they've alienated their own Palestinian streets.
No one understands why Hamas threw out two weeks ago, publicly, they tore up the understandings with Egypt. They tore up the ceasefire, threw them out the window. Then they started barrages against Israeli civilian targets which reached a crescendo on Christmas day. 80 rockets, missiles, rocket shells, mortar shells, hitting Israeli civilians. It's just unacceptable. If Hamas today is in a difficult situation frankly they have no one else but themselves to play.
AMANPOUR: Mr. Regev you say that they've lost the streets. Well, the fact of the matter is as you've seen is there has been wave after wave of protest in Islamic countries all over the world, right here in the Palestinian territories, in western Europe, as well. In the United States, as well. How are you going to win this battle when you know very well that the vision that is being given to the world is dead Palestinian children and women?
REGEV: Here I have to remind you that since Hamas took over the Gaza strip almost two years ago they have systematically destroyed independent civil society. They've systematically destroyed independent NGOs. They are reporting all these atrocity propaganda. There's no way whatsoever to independently verify the sort of numbers coming out of Gaza. They have an interest. If you listen to Hamas it's like every single person Israel has hit is an innocent civilian and we've hit no military targets at all.
AMANPOUR: Well, there's two points to that, Mr. Regev. There's two points to that. One the United Nations has talked about these figures, and they are in there. They've also said that at the very least, 25 percent of the more than 400 people who've been killed there are civilians. And the other point is that yes, we would like to verify it. But Israel is not allowing the international press to go in to Gaza. This is an unprecedented situation.
REGEV: First of all, I'm hopeful that the international press will be in to Gaza as soon as possible. We're hopeful that could happen tomorrow. I hope with the fighting it's still possible. But let's be clear here. The people of Gaza, the civilian population of Gaza is not our enemy. On the contrary in many ways they are victims like us. Both the civilian population of southern Israel and the civilian population of the Gaza strip have been victims of this terrible extremist Hamas regime.
AMANPOUR: The thing is though they were elected by the people in elections in 2006, practically three years ago right now. Is there a political solution to this?
REGEV: There's a political solution if Hamas reforms. If Hamas accepts not what Israel demands, but what were ultimately the United Nations bench marks. If they cease this sort of violence, if they recognize my country's right to exist. Until now Hamas has failed to meet the most minimal bench marks established by the international community. It's not just Israel that refuses to talk to Hamas. It's Canada, it's Europe, it's the United States. It's Japan. It's Australia. Most of the international community refuses to talk to Hamas and for good reason.
AMANPOUR: There are others who do believe that Hamas is there. It has control of a huge slice of the Palestinian territories, 1.5 million people, and that perhaps at some point they do need to be engaged. Right now, former British Prime Minister Tony Blair is in the air on the way here in his capacity as representative of the quartet. French president Nicolas Sarkozy is due here and in the region on Monday. What is it that they can do and say that can bring an end to this war right now? With a satisfactory ceasefire?
REGEV: The ceasefire that is satisfactory is one that is real. A real ceasefire that a Band-aid. So we can be sure that the civilian population in southern Israel no longer has to be on the incoming end of these Hamas rockets. It's a very easy point. If that can be achieved, then there's peace tomorrow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CLANCY: All right. That's Israel's side of things. There, Mark Regev, the foreign ministry spokesman talking with our senior international correspondent Christiane Amanpour. But how about the Palestinian side? Well, we're going to hear from a senior adviser to President Mahmoud Abbas as our coverage of this crisis continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CLANCY: Some of the scenes from Gaza over the past days and hours. There were huge explosions just a short time ago in northern Gaza. We were looking at it with some night scope video. CNN cameras are there looking in to Gaza. Maybe we can take another look at that now and show everyone what it looks like. It seems to have calmed down quite a bit now. But there has been a consistent, sustained assault, if you will, that has continued under way now for going on seven hours.
First there were artillery strikes and then about seven hours ago, we had ground forces on the move. Israeli troops on the move into Gaza. A few minutes ago we heard from an Israeli spokesman. Of course the Palestinians have been speaking out, as well. They're looking at this, seeing it as a tragedy unfolding for a population, a civilian population that has little to do with the fighting, but is nevertheless trapped. Our Ralitsa Vassileva talked with Saeb Erekat, senior adviser to Palestinian authority President Mahmoud Abbas. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VOICE OF SAEB EREKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: Well, we believe that this will add to the complexities and violence will breed more violence and more of the same. The problem we have does not require military solutions. We have called upon the international community to interfere or to stop this attack immediately. And we are open to discuss later the ceasefire through the Egyptian, the national dialogue, the needs of Gaza. But if Israel believes that it can solve this problem through military means this was proven wrong so many times.
What this will do is undermine the peace process. This will undermine all efforts to revive hope in the region. And at the end of the day, who you are fighting, what are you trying to achieve? We don't have an army. We don't have a navy. We don't have an air force. We have called upon Israel, and upon everybody to help the Egyptians in order to sustain the ceasefire in Gaza. Because, this problem requires political solutions, not military solutions. So I'm afraid that we had to -
RALITSA VASSILEVA, CNN ANCHOR: Mr. Erekat, let me ask you, let's talk about political solutions. How are these solutions going to be achieved when even the Palestinian leadership is divided? You are in the West bank. Hamas controls Gaza. You have no control over Gaza. How is that going to stop? Israel is saying that Hamas is a terrorist organization. The U.S., the European Union, we do not negotiate with them. Do you have any way of speaking to Hamas, and bringing a united Palestinian position?
EREKAT: Ralitsa, I am not denying that we have the worst Palestinian problem we had since 1967. This is the worst thing, this division that happened between us and Gaza is the worst that we faced since 1967. But having said that, we wanted to solve this problem not through bullets but through ballots. That's why the Egyptians were involved in this national dialogue. That's why we have insisted that under the Egyptian umbrella we achieve to end the division, and assume our national unity in order to go for elections, presidential, legislative.
And this is the way to solve the problem. I'm not denying that major - we have a major problem in our division. I'm not denying that we have the darkest chapter in our history through the continuation of our division. But at the same time, what this will do, what the 450 people killed, 2,000 people and more wounded, the destruction of a total infrastructure in Gaza, where will this take us? Will this bring us to security and peace? No, it will not. It will just add to the enlargement of the cycle of violence.
VASSILEVA: The point that the Israelis are making is that want those rocket launching into southern Israel's stop. If that stops, then they will not need to take all the actions that they have needed to protect their people.
EREKAT: Ralitsa, in June 19, 2008, six months ago, the Egyptians managed to bring about a ceasefire, what we call a (inaudible) in Gaza. A comprehensive area that we believe it's doable, we believe the Egyptians should be given a chance to reinstate this ceasefire and in my opinion, I think military solutions will just add to the complications. It will not provide security to anyone. This will add to the complexity and this will add fuel to the fire. This is will enlarge the cycle of violence and contra violation and strings of extremism in the region. VASSILEVA: There was a ceasefire for six months. And the peace process did not go anywhere. The divisions remained between you and Hamas. Little work was done to repair the relations in the Palestinian leadership to present a united front. Six months there was a ceasefire.
EREKAT: That's true, but in the ceasefire, how many people were killed and how many things we have seen the worse? I mean, this six months, we have witnessed a period of difficulty. I am not condoning that the Israeli civilians be targeted by anything.
VASSILEVA: No, the reason why I'm bringing this up is because you are calling for another ceasefire. How will that ceasefire be any different from other ceasefires so that it brings about conditions conducive to negotiating the big issues?
EREKAT: Yes, this will go parallel. If we have a ceasefire in Gaza and reinstated under the umbrella of the Egyptians, and then we can have the element of international presence, monitors that is doable. At the same time in parallel, the Egyptians lead our national dialogue in order to end this division between us. And the politics plus the monitors plus the ceasefire, I think it's a combination that will bring us out of this miserable situation we are in.
VASSILEVA: Mr. Erekat, you are speaking about international monitors, but I was reading that the initial reaction from Hamas to international monitors has been very cold. They don't have an interest in having international monitors because they need to continue, analysts say, they need to continue arming themselves. They need to have those tunnels. International monitors are not exactly in their interest. How is the Palestinian authority going to convince Hamas to accept those international monitors?
EREKAT: Well, as you said, we are out of Gaza, but at the same time we know that President Abbas had asked the Egyptians and through his good office as we managed to reach the ceasefire. Now, we are not saying that ceasefire period, we're saying a ceasefire with international presence. That's what the Arab foreign minister decided on the December 31st meeting in Cairo. And I am talking about a package, a package that will sustain the mutual ceasefire that would lift the siege from Gaza that would enable us to continue our national dialogue and at the same time proceed with the peace process. This is a combination.
But now, your argument that you gave me that OK, the military solutions. OK, the military solutions have been tried in terms of bombardment, killing fields and so on. And now what will this bring us? Will this bring us to more security and to more peace? I'm saying no. This will enlarge the cycle of violence, counter violence and it brings an extremist not in the West bank and Gaza but throughout the whole region. That is my point.
VASSILEVA: My point was that basically nothing seems to work. The military option doesn't work. And the peace option gets nowhere. That was my point. How do we move beyond this where the peace option really works to create different conditions? EREKAT: Well, that's what I'm saying. We should focus on the real issue and the real issue is to end the conflict. The real issue is to bring about the two-step solution from the region, realistic political track and to finish the problem once and for all at the end of the day.
VASSILEVA: How do you make Hamas recognize Israel, recognize past agreements that your administration has signed and agree that Israel has the right to exist and for two states to exist side by side. Hamas is not agreeing and has not agreed to that.
EREKAT: We have - that's precisely my point about the national dialogue that the Egyptian were sponsoring and has continued doing. In the national dialogue talks, these are the issues that are on the table. Nobody is asking Hamas to recognize or accept what we're saying about forming our government with national consensus from the Palestinians and this government will a period of six months in order to have resumption of legislative elections in the West Bank simultaneously and this is the way out through ballots not bullets.
All I'm saying is that bullets will not solve any problems. Violence will not solve any problems. Military solutions will not solve problems. This will add to the complexities. This has been tried for the last six years in the region and show me one example where military solutions have provided a better situation in the Middle East, think Afghanistan to Iraq and anywhere in the Middle East.
All I'm saying is that military solutions will add to the complexities and enlarge the cycle of violence and counter violence. Now, I'm not saying that we should leave a vacuum as far as the political track. The political track begins with reinstating the ceasefire in Gaza, comprehensive and lifting the siege from Gaza and then engaging in the national dialogue through the Egyptian umbrella and achieving the national unity that will take us to the presidential legislative election.
And this will facilitate the way for the peace process we are aiming to achieve with the end result of the two-step solution.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CLANCY: Saeb Erekat there, a man who has been involved as chief negotiator on the Palestinian side in the peace process and still a senior aide to, an advisor I should say to Palestinian authority President Mahmoud Abbas, talking with Ralitsa Vassileva a little bit earlier, frustrated at times, looking on. No doubt the entire world is looking on seeing the situation as it is. A humanitarian crisis, a security crisis, a crisis in confidence among two people. Some of the people around the world have been taking to the streets to make their feelings known. Take a look at these pictures.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY (voice-over): This was the scene in Europe as thousands took to the streets here in Paris. You can see the shouting, the peaceful demonstration Saturday as they carried signs and hoisted Palestinian flags. There were also protesters marching in Berlin and in Rome. Demonstrators there also carried flags and banners in support of the Palestinian people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: This is CNN's continuing coverage of the crisis in the Middle East as Israeli ground forces are pushing into Gaza. We are keeping watch from all sides. I'm Jim Clancy. Keep it here on CNN. Another full hour of comprehensive coverage straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon here at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
"THE OBAMAS" begin in a moment. But we want to tell you what's happening because we have some breaking news. Israeli troops launched a ground assault into Gaza going after Hamas militants who have repeatedly fired rockets into Israeli territory. Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is standing by at the Israel-Gaza border with more information. What are you seeing from your vantage point, Nic?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, I'm continuing to see and hear huge explosions on the horizon just over my shoulder here. It's the north end of the Gaza strip. We are seeing explosions there. We have heard heavy machine gunfire there. Over this shoulder here, is towards the center of the Gaza strip. We are seeing some huge explosions there with a lot of after explosions afterwards. You can hear helicopters in the air right now, more heavy machine gunfire.
And the other thing we noticed about looking down on to the area of Gaza, the lights are going out. There were a lot more lights in the houses, and the electricity has been cut to some parts of the gaza strip.
And the Israeli defense minster is expecting a long operation. What is not clear, how many Israeli troops are involved or what casualties have been sustained so far. The aim of the defense forces is to take control of the places where Hamas fires the rockets from in the fields behind me. That is where the troops are right now.
LEMON: I understand that you are on the border there overlooking the area not close to the ground forces moving in and also the people, but you can see the homes there. We spoke with someone earlier who was hunkered down in his home for eight days with no electricity, he said. It's starting to go out in areas. Very little food and very little water. Are you hearing stories from the ground about similar situations?
ROBERTSON: It's very, very difficult for us to have word and hear directly from Palestinians in Gaza, but the phone communications and the transmissions from the television studios in the center of Gaza City indicate exactly that. The people have told us they are living by candlelight in their homes, and windows are blown out. From the way we are dressed -- it gets cold at night. The only way they can see around their homes is from the light holding up mobile homes. People are living in desperate situations. It's an acute shortage of bread and no way for the people to get out of there.
LEMON: CNN correspondent Nick Robertson, one of the few allowed on the border. We will check back throughout the evening.
Much, much more live coverage of the cris in the East.
A special edition of "LARRY KING LIVE"; at 10:00 p.m. and midnight, CNN NEWSROOM live, CNN International coverage live, as well as at 6:00 a.m. Sunday morning.
Right now, "THE OBAMAS."
