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Bloodshed continues in the Middle East; Illinois Senate Appointee Roland Burris Presses His Case to the Secretary of the Senate
Aired January 06, 2009 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
COLLINS: This hour, we're headed to The Capital and a Senate showdown. Roland Burris vowing to take Barack Obama's empty seat. Democrats vowing to yank it out from under him.
Bloodshed in the Middle East. A missile slams into an elementary school in Gaza City. Hundreds of people had taken shelter there. I'm Heidi Collins. Today is Tuesday, January 6, you are in the CNN NEWSROOM.
The first day of class for Congress. Members of the 111th Congress are in Washington to take the oath. But there are a couple seats still vacant. Most notably, the one formerly occupied by President-elect Barack Obama. CNN's Brianna Keilar is live now on Capitol Hill this morning with the very latest -- Brianna.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Now, I'm looking at a shot of the line that the general public goes through as they come in to the Senate. This is where we're expecting Roland Burris, of course, embattled Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich's pick to fill Barack Obama's vacant Senate seat.
This is the line that we're actually expecting him to come by or expecting him to enter The Capitol, and he said that there is not going to be any spectacle, but it is interesting, because his - his credential was presented yesterday, and Senate officials rejected it, saying that it wasn't complete.
He says he's coming anyway. We actually caught some pictures of him earlier today in Washington, not far from his hotel. And, again, he says as he said yesterday, at a press conference, at the Baltimore Airport, as he came into town, he said, there isn't going to be a spectacle. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROLAND BURRIS (D), FMR. ILLINOIS ATTORNEY GENERAL: I'm not going to make a scene. I don't want to give you all a circus. I'm not here to create any type of confrontation with anyone. I'm a junior senator from the state of Illinois, and we will go up to the Senate. I know the sergeant-at-arms. We served together in Illinois, he's the former director of Illinois State Police, Terry Gaynor. And so we will certainly be in all decorum.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: Now, if turned away, Roland Burris has said that he will not make a scene, that he's going to - his lawyers will basically take it from there. We are expecting for there to be another press conference that he's going to hold after all of these events go down. But Democratic leaders again refusing to seat him today.
And this is you know, this is the opening day of Congress. It's sort of akin to the first day of school. It's supposed to be a day of sort of warm and fuzzy moments, especially for Democrats this time around, they have increased the majorities in the House and the Senate. They've got an incoming Democratic president, but obviously this is - it's sort of an embarrassing time for them, because Roland Burris is stealing the headlines today, Heidi.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: All right. CNN's Brianna Keilar there right outside the Capitol Building. We'll be watching it very closely. Brianna, thank you.
And you know, Minnesota won't have a second senator on the floor today. Democratic challenger Al Franken has been named the winner by 225 votes, but incumbent Republican Norm Coleman plans to challenge the result in court. Franken says he's ready to take the seat in Washington, but Republican governor Tim Pawlenty still has to certify the results before that can happen.
President-elect Barack Obama ready to name two critical members to his national intelligence team, but one of his choices is stirring up some controversy with a lot of people saying he lacks experience. CNN's Kate Bolduan joining us now from Washington this morning. We're talking about Leon Panetta.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we are, Heidi, and we probably will be for a little while now.
COLLINS: Yes.
BOLDUAN: The president-elect is working on rounding out his cabinet, but that task may prove more difficult than the transition had hoped. Possible political trouble over the president's choice for a key intelligence post, CIA director, the news of Leon Panetta, a former Clinton White House chief of staff as the CIA nominee is not getting a warm welcome from some key Democrats.
Diane Feinstein, incoming chair of the Senate intelligence committee, in charge of that position's confirmation hearing, basically slammed the pick, releasing a statement to say, "I was not informed." She goes on to say, "my position has consistently been that I believe the agency is best served by having an intelligence professional in charge at this time."
Her objection, shared by outgoing chair of the committee, Democrat Jay Rockefeller, an aide to the senator, saying he's concerned about Panetta's lack of intelligence experience. Well that grabs the headlines, the Democratic officials have also released another key intelligence pick, Retired Admiral Dennis Blair for director of National Intelligence, and clearly, Heidi, not creating the same unwanted buzz as Mr. Panetta.
COLLINS: Yes and we're going to be talking a little bit more about this with a former CIA analyst, coming up here in a few minutes, as well. Try and figure out exactly how this all came about. So we appreciate that. Kate Bolduan, thank you.
Leon Panetta is a familiar face from the Clinton administration. He served as President Clinton's White House chief of staff from 1994 to 1997. He was also Mr. Clinton's choice to head up the Office of Management and Budget. Before joining the White House staff, Panetta was a representative from California for 16 years.
And here is a little more on Dennis Blair, the expected choice for director of National Security. A retired admiral, Blair is a former commander of the U.S. Pacific fleet. He was also associate director of military support for the CIA and served on the national security council.
Also, the story that we've been hearing in Navy circles that Blair once tried to water-ski behind the destroyer he commanded in Japan.
As night begins to fall in the Middle East, Israeli troops have Gaza City virtually surrounded. This is the time we usually see more air strikes. Overnight, the United Nations says Israel fired on a school where about 400 people had taken shelter.
Three Palestinians were killed. The death toll in Gaza reportedly has reached at least 555. Palestinians say about 100 of the victims were women and children. Israelis say they are targeting Hamas militants who are firing rockets into southern Israel.
Today, more of those rocket attacks. One went farther than ever into southern Israel, hitting a town about 23 miles from the border. And CNN's Paula Hancocks is watching these developments from right along the Israel-Gaza border today. Nearly two weeks into this, Paula, what are you noticing, any change, more rocket attacks? We keep hearing, obviously, of a lot of activity.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Heidi. Certainly, a small drop in the number of rockets, but the fact is, the Hamas militants are managing to make these rockets hit further towns. As you say, almost 23 miles from the border of Gaza, halfway, really, between Gaza and Tel Aviv. So Hamas still not crippled in its ability to fire these rockets into Israel.
Now, as dusk is falling here on the Israel-Gaza border, you can see a thick haze of black smoke hovering above the whole of Gaza. And certainly this smoke has drifted miles north into Israel, just to give you an indication of the number of fires that have been burning throughout Gaza today. A number of air strikes hitting areas like Beit Lahiya, just behind me.
Now this is the area where the Israeli military say that they are operating on the outskirts of these areas. They believe the Hamas militants have withdrawn into the center of these towns and into the center of Gaza City and the Jabalya refugee camp in order to be able to continue firing the rockets.
And certainly, we are seeing the death toll increasing, and there are fears that the further that these Israeli soldiers push into Gaza City, that certainly practically surrounding it now and fighting very close to the outskirts, then the civilians' hold could rise even more.
Now, we are hearing that one U.N. school was hit in Gaza overnight. Three people killed in that attack. We also have our Palestinian sources on the ground saying that an air strike has hit close to another U.N. school. Now, the U.N. itself says it's looking into this report. Some reports of casualties, but they're trying to confirm that at this point.
So that is the big fear. There are diplomatic efforts going on. There are E.U. diplomats in the region trying to organize a ceasefire, but it's making absolutely no difference to either side at this point. Heidi.
COLLINS: Yes. All right. CNN's Paula Hancocks there for us along the Israel-Gaza border. Thank you, Paula.
Anderson Cooper also reporting from along the Israel-Gaza border. You can see him tonight at "AC 360." That's at 10:00 Eastern, only here on CNN.
Get back over to CNN meteorologist Rob Marciano now, standing by in the severe weather center, because that's obviously what we're talking about.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN, METEOROLOGIST: We've got that, and we got winter weather, as well. Hi, Heidi, we're talking about the first full week of January of 2009. And we've got just about every weather you can think of.
A little pocket of warm air across the southeast, and that's going to bubble up later today. We could see this threat for severe thunderstorms, just some heavy rain, some lightning, maybe a little bit of hail with these, not a huge tornado threat, but you never know this time of year, especially when you get a piece of energy coming out of the Gulf of Mexico. And that's what we're looking at.
That energy will also provide some winter weather across the northern tier of this system, where the air is pretty chilly. But beneficial rains across this swath (ph), northern Georgia, parts of the Carolinas, eastern Tennessee, we could see two to four inches of rainfall.
That's good news, because it's an ongoing drought. Bad news is it could come in a hurry. So flash flood watches and in some cases warnings are already posted.
And you can see the moderate to light to rainfall. In some cases, heavy rainfall just to the east of Huntsville, and a pretty good swath of it, pretty good rain shield encompassing a pretty decent amount of real estate here across the eastern third of the country. All right. Let's talk about the winter threat here. Ice across parts of the Ohio Valley, especially eastern parts, over towards the Appalachians and through Maryland and West Virginia. Two to eight inches of snow, potentially as this moisture makes its way up into some colder air. It hasn't quite done that yet, but later on tonight and tomorrow, we think that is a pretty good possibility.
So winter storm warnings are posted for mostly places north and east, or north and west of the big cities. 37, 36 degrees right now in Philadelphia. So you'll see a mix. Closer to freezing in New York City. Obviously, below freezing in Hartford, Connecticut. So obviously common sense here prevails, not always the case with weather, but in this case, the further north you go, the better chances you are of seeing more winter weather than seeing the wet stuff.
Beginning winter weather in parts of Mansfield, Ohio, towards Defiance, Forts Wayne and Kalamazoo, and Chicago getting a little snow this hour. Temperatures not drastically cold at this time of year, in the 30s. And snow shouldn't pile up a whole lot, maybe an inch at most there.
In Dallas, 56 degrees while you have all sorts of weather the past few days. 32 degrees expected for a high in Chicago. It will be 34 degrees in New York City, 67 degrees in Atlanta.
I don't want to ignore folks on the West Coast who are waking up this hour. Another storm rolling into the Pacific northwest, and there are flash flood watches and in some cases warnings for Portland up through Seattle. All that snow you had in the past, well in the last two weeks of December obviously piling up especially in the hills.
And then you get the rain on top of that, and we got snow melt problems. Chicago, ground stop until 9:00 a.m. local time, so we're coming up on that. San Francisco, 45-minute delays there. In Newark, 30 minute delays. And here is your high temperature for tomorrow. Things get a little bit more moderate. So good news here, Heidi, I suppose. When we're talking 27 in Chicago, 15 degrees in Minneapolis, first week of January.
COLLINS: Yes. That's tropical there.
MARCIANO: That's a heat wave.
COLLINS: Yes, absolutely.
MARCIANO: All right. Well, enjoy.
COLLINS: You're right. Thanks so much, Rob.
MARCIANO: OK.
COLLINS: Leon Panetta at the CIA. One former CIA analyst ready to weigh in on the choice of an outsider as spy master.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Intelligence experience not necessary. President-elect Barack Obama ready to choose former Clinton staffer Leon Panetta as his CIA director. Former CIA agent and analyst, Michael Scheuer is the author of "Imperial Hubris," the look at the agency's handling of the war on terror. He was CIA analyst for 22 years. In fact, Michael Scheuer is joining us now from Washington this morning to talk a little bit more about this. So Michael, why Panetta?
MICHAEL SCHEUER, FORMER HEAD OF CIA'S BIN LADEN UNIT: Apparently, he'll be easy to get through to Congress. He's a Democratic apparatchik (ph). He has been for most of his life. He clearly has nothing on his curriculum vitae that suggest he should be a candidate for this job, but that has been the pattern really since Mr. Casey and Judge Webster were director of the agency except for General Hayden, we've had mostly political hacks that have come over to run CIA.
COLLINS: Yes, because Hayden is a retired Air Force general with years of experience in intelligence. But listen to this. We're very familiar already this morning about what Senator Diane Feinstein had to say, saying you know, she knew nothing about this, and of course, she is the chairwoman of the Senate intelligence committee.
Also Christopher Bond, he's a ranking member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, he says this, "in a post 9-11 world, intelligence experience would seem to be a prerequisite for the job of CIA director." But we also hear, to be fair, from Harry Reid, the majority leader. He says that "Panetta is one of the finest public servants I've ever served with and dealt with since he left the White House." So Michael, what are your concerns?
SCHEUER: Well, Senator Reid of course is just backing up the president on the pick of a Democrat. The concerns are several-fold. First, General Hayden, while he has not been very much liked by the media, I think, has been very much liked by the agency. He was very strong in his support of clandestine operations. He knows what we do and he supported it. And he publicly defended the agency, unlike Mr. Tenet, for example, who was always taking the blame for other people's mistakes.
I think within the agency, they're going to feel like they're trading a silk purse for a pig's ear in getting rid of General Hayden and getting Mr. Panetta.
COLLINS: And obviously you're saying that he hasn't been popular with the media because of the interrogation and detention programs.
SCHEUER: Yes, sir. But he has been very strong in defending agency officers for doing what they were ordered to do by the president. I think sending Mr. Panetta over will suggest to the agency's work force that the people who want to pound the flesh from the agency, Mr. Markey, the Democrat from Massachusetts, Senator Levin from Michigan, will have their day in court.
COLLINS: So obviously you're saying this is a completely political decision so far on President-elect Obama's mind. But isn't true that Panetta is going to be reporting to the National Director of Intelligence who is going to be Blair, obviously, Admiral Dennis Blair that we're talking about, has a lot of intelligence experience. Won't they work as a team? Could this not possibly be a benefit?
SCHEUER: Oh, Mr. Panetta could be the best director of CIA that ever lived. It's just not apparent that he has any talent that is pertinent to the job.
And Admiral Blair's selection is a very funny one because for the first time in a long time, America has a large number of major generals and lieutenant generals who are serving, who have seen combat recently, and who know how the intelligence agency works with the military. So to pick someone who has been out in the Pacific for so long is very - is very inexplicable to me.
COLLINS: Is this going to affect our safety?
SCHEUER: Oh, sure it is. What Mr. Panetta's appointment says is that there is no urgency in the mind of the Obama administration. They think they can send somebody over there who will learn on the job and that the enemy will wait to attack us until he has learned how to do his job several years down the road.
COLLINS: That did take quite some time to name a CIA director, true. But we shall see. We certainly do appreciate your insight in all there. Michael Scheuer, thanks so much.
SCHEUER: Thank you, ma'am.
COLLINS: A family's tragic loss. We are learning more about how Jett Travolta died. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Quickly now, I want to check out the big board for you. The Dow Jones industrial averages is modest, modest gains, about an hour or so into the trading day. Dow Jones industrial average up 28 points or so, and we continue to watch those numbers. Nasdaq up about 15 or so, as well.
And quickly now, we want to take you to Capitol Hill, for a story that we have been following for several days. We're talking about Roland Burris. He may be referring to himself as Illinois Senator Roland Burris, but not everybody agreeing with that. Apparently he is making his way or trying to make his way in the middle of all of that press there into the Capitol Building.
We have been told on this that Brianna Keilar, first of all, standing by. Brianna, if you can hear me, he is going in at the Carriage entrance. Tell us a little bit more about why and where that is.
KEILAR: Yes, and actually Heidi I want to tell you there is a little bit of a change of plans. It seems like everything is changing by the minute. But what we have is, and as you can see, there is a lot of media waiting.
COLLINS: No.
KEILAR: And then this will be the entrance here to the - to the Capitol that he will be coming in. But we understand, before he goes in, as we last reported that he would go in and be met inside at an appointment desk, we understand now that the sergeant at arms, Terry Gaynor, and a member from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's staff will actually come outside, right around over this area, for a bit of a handshake to welcome him.
So you can see, they're obviously trying to keep this very civil, very cordial. And then we understand that he will be escorted up to an office of the Secretary of the Senate.
This is really an administrative position, and even though his certificate of appointment has been rejected because it wasn't signed by the Illinois Secretary of State, he is going to present it again. Anyway, he is, of course, expected to be turned away, because it is an incomplete certificate. ]
And then we now hear, Heidi, that he definitely will be having a press conference. And I just want to give you a sense. Oh, here we go. I believe we actually have Roland Burris making his way here. Up the hill as you can see, just a lot of media coming this way. As he makes his way, we're going to try to get a shot - he's sort of in a scrum of reporters.
COLLINS: Yes, Brianna, just to let you know, Brianna, I know you can't see exactly what we have here, but we are able to get that shot. So we are - we are actually watching exactly where he's going right now. We also have a third screen that everybody at home can see, and this is broadband that's actually inside.
So we are - we are getting all angles of this, as Roland Burris tries to make his way into Capitol Hill. Go ahead and tell us a little bit more about what you're seeing. And maybe once again remind everybody what this change is, Brianna, to exactly how he will be welcomed today.
KEILAR: Well basically, and you know, I just want to give you little bit of a sense of what today is kind of supposed to be, Heidi. This is the opening day of Congress.
COLLINS: Right.
KEILAR: It's like the first day of school. This is where all of the new members are sworn in. It's normally you know, it's kind of a festive day, there is a lot of receptions ahead of the noon-time swearing in, where there are receptions for people of different states, and there are going to be nine new senators sworn in.
So basically, as Roland Burris makes his way up to the Capitol, he is expected to be greeted by the sergeant-at-arms, Terrence Gaynor, which is kind of interesting, because he served in the Illinois state government with him, and is also expected to be welcomed by a member of Harry Reid's staff. Take note though -
COLLINS: Right.
KEILAR: It's not Harry Reid. There is expected to be some sort of handshake outside of the Capitol. Then they're expected to go inside, where Roland Burris wants to again present this certificate of appointment that only has one signature, the signature of Governor Rod Blagojevich.
It's missing the signature of Jesse White, the secretary of state of Illinois who refused to sign it because of sort of the shadow that the indicted governor is under, and then we understand again that he's going to be holding a press conference. You can see it's sort of difficult for him to even make his way up.
COLLINS: Boy, yes, I just cannot imagine, if you are Roland Burris, what all this feels like. I'm sure that he was anticipating this huge crush of press, and we are watching very, very closely.
KEILAR: Sir, what is your expectation? What is your expectation, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think about all this, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Further out. No statement.
KEILAR: And Heidi, we're being told there is going to be no statements or questions. We actually got up right next to Mr. Burris, but he's just trying to make his way up to the Capitol. And is not taking any - any questions as he does so. You can see it's just - it's quite a mess here.
This is not exactly what Democrats had hoped for, as they sort of celebrate their increased majorities in the House, in the Senate at the same time as they welcome in an incoming Democratic president. And instead, this is the top story on the Hill, as you can see stealing the limelight, Heidi, today on the opening day of Congress.
COLLINS: Yes, the start of 111th Congress, in fact. And Brianna, as we continue to watch this, I believe - I'm not sure exactly where you are, Brianna, but if you can see the sergeant-at- arms, Terrence Gaynor, making his way towards Roland Burris. Is that what you're able to see as well?
KEILAR: You know it's difficult to see. He has actually gone inside and I can't tell if the welcome is actually prevented just by the sheer crush of reporters which may actually be - which may actually be the case.
COLLINS: OK.
KEILAR: But at this point, yes, Heidi, we understand that he is making his way inside.
COLLINS: All right. Quickly, Brianna, I want to get to Dana Bash, because she is actually inside the building. And Dana, I'm not quite sure where you're location is. But tell us what you're able to see from where you are.
VOICE OF DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, I have the crush of reporters that you just saw outside, basically, you know, there are - it's kind of cat in mouth (ph). There are two doors that Roland Burris can come through, and I'm inside the first floor of the Capitol, waiting to see which door he comes through.
Our initial thought was that he was going to come in and go to the appointments desk.
COLLINS: Right.
BASH: Basically, you have to come in and sign into the Capitol, like anybody else would. Like a member of the general public. But because, as Brianna was just reporting, the Democratic leadership and the sergeant at arms understood what a crush this would be and specially what a spectacle this would be, it's possible they're going to escort him in, basically not as a member of the general public.
So I'm inside waiting to see what doors he comes in. And people are walking back and forth, so I have a line of sight to both.
COLLINS: OK. And just to let everybody know what they're looking at on their screen. We are showing you these pictures via broadband from inside the Capitol Building, trying to give you the best look that we possibly can for everything that's going to be happening today, regarding Roland Burris.
But Dana, while I still have you on the line, going back just a bit, it's interesting because Roland Burris has said that you know, he really did not want to make a spectacle. A lot of people would say, well, just by going today, you will be making a spectacle, regardless of what you say or do.
BASH: No question. I talked to a Democratic leadership aide who said, well, Roland Burris isn't going to make it easy for us. Despite what Burris had promised over and over again, that he was going to do just what's happening right now, they were hoping that perhaps that they would spare - that he would spare them - you know, actually, as I'm speaking,
I'm watching Roland Burris come in the door. He is actually coming to the appointments desk, as - towards the appointments desk, I should say, as we head - as we had anticipated. He's just actually coming through the mag, the security mag on the north door of the Capitol, Heidi. Trying to get a picture for you right now. There are -
COLLINS: OK.
BASH: Several reporters watching him as he comes in. He is still standing with some of his aides, looking frankly a little bit confused as to where he should go right now. And there I see him, he is with the sergeant-at-arms. He is coming through at the door, deliberating with the sergeant-at-arms about where exactly he should go now.
COLLINS: Yes, and this is the part, that we really weren't sure about what was going to happen next. They kind of have an indication that he would be coming in to one of those two doors that you're talking about and that he would meet with the sergeant of arms briefly and then also -
BASH: I'm standing with him.
What do you expect to do right now, sir? I'm walking down, just to give you a sense of what is happening, I'm literally walking next to the sergeant-at-arms and Mr. Burris. As we're walking down the hallway. You can probably hear people trying to ask him questions, including myself.
COLLINS: Yes, Dana, we can hear you, we can see him, as well, it's a little dark, as well.
BASH: He's walking into the elevator. Our understanding is now he is walking - going up to the third floor, which is - you can probably sense the crush of reporters trying to get through. He is going to the third floor, and that is where the office of the Secretary of the Senate is. And this is a woman who has already rejected his appeal to be sworn in as senator.
She did it yesterday, because a representative from Governor Blagojevich's office came and presented the papers, and she said no. We're not able to do it, because the secretary of state of Illinois has not signed on to it.
You can probably hear, I'm walking up the stairs, Heidi, to try to get to the third floor from the first floor to walk in to try to appeal and say please seat me. But our understanding is she is going to say, no, it's not possible.
COLLINS: Yes, and Dana, again, as we continue to watch all of this, coming our way and coming out to our viewers via broadband, I just want to make sure that everybody understand why the pictures looks like this, very intriguing in fact, inside the Capitol Building as you sort of narrate for us what's going on with Roland Burris.
You know he did say that I do present myself as a legally appointed senator from the state of Illinois and later says "I have no knowledge of where a secretary of state has veto power over a governor carrying out his constitutional duties." So as we continue to go through this process of what may or may not happen regarding the Senate seat. He was the attorney general.
It still intrigues me that he wouldn't be aware of any law that may keep him from hanging on to this seat.
BASH: Well, you know, what he said is that there is no law. He said over and over again that the law -- the constitution of the state -- is very clear, and that is that the governor is still in place, and that he has every right to appoint Burris, and that's why he's here. COLLINS: All right, well, again, we are continuing to watch these pictures, and we understand from our Brianna Keilar and Dana Bash, Dana inside the Capitol Hill building there and Brianna Keilar outside of the building, as Roland Burris arrived a few moments ago, that he is actually now on his way to the office of the secretary of the Senate.
We are going to continue to follow this story and figure out exactly what will happen next. Dana, I imagine some of these conversations may be going on now behind closed doors, and it may take a while for us to realize the results of those conversations.
BASH: That's correct. And I'm actually, as we speak, getting about as close as I can get to the secretary of the Senate's office, where we understand Roland Burris went, again, to try to appeal to her to say that he wants to actually be seated and to be sworn in. That was our expectation of what would go on behind the scenes. Again, our expectation is that he will be rejected, and then we do expect him to come and talk before the press and have a press conference in a little while.
COLLINS: All right. Very good. Dana Bash, we sure do appreciate that. We're going to rearrange some of our cameras here and make sure that we stay on top of this story and bring it to everybody live.
This right now I'm told is coming to us from are the third floor of the Capitol building. We still see quite a crush of people there. Roland Burris likely in the middle of that crowd, again, as he makes his way to the office of the secretary of the Senate. He does have that certificate of appointment from the State of Illinois to -- actually from the governor, to try and hang on to this Senate seat.
But as we have been hearing from all of our reporters, specifically Dana Bash, saying that, you know, it is very unlikely that that will happen, that he will be able to hang on to this seat. So then what happens next? If, in fact, it's decided today, which it sounds like it will be, that no, he's not going to be permitted to take this seat, what's the recourse? if any that he decides to try and take?
BASH: Well, that is the $64,000 question, Heidi. And it is something that the Democratic leadership has been working on behind the scenes. You know, when Burris was first appointed by Governor Blagojevich, they were very adamant, saying there was no way somebody appointed by what they call a (INAUDIBLE) and corrupt governor, corrupt even though we should remind our viewers that he hasn't actually been indicted for anything, that they say that that was no way they would seat him.
However, they realized inside the Democratic leadership that the avenues, the legal avenues they were using to prevent that from happening might not be there for them in the coming days. For example, the secretary of state of Illinois, he has not signed the certificate that allows him to be certified. But Roland Burris has appealed to the supreme court, saying the governor has done it. There is no reason why I shouldn't be seated. They realized inside the Democratic leadership that it's possible that the Illinois Supreme Court might not rule in their favor. So, they're trying to figure out ways to deal with this.
One of the things that we reported yesterday that they were talking about was offering him a deal, saying we'll seat you as long as you promise not to run in 2010. It looks like that's something that Burris is not going to agree to. And not all of the members of the leadership are even on board with.
There are other things being discussed, and it will be interesting to see what happens. They're going to meet with him on Wednesday, members of the Democratic leadership.
COLLINS: OK, they'll meet with him on Wednesday. And Dana, just so you know, we see you coming in and out of our shot here again, going home to our viewers via broadband from inside the Capitol building as we continue to watch the events unfold, with Roland Burris apparently right now talking with the office of the secretary of the Senate. Up on the third floor, to be specific, where these pictures are coming out of the Capitol building.
So Dana, you've been covering Washington, you've been covering politics for a very long time, even before becoming an on-air reporter. Have you ever seen anything like this?
BASH: No, frankly, for so many reasons. And that's part of the major pickle that the Democratic leadership is in right now. And it is because these are uncharted waters.
I mean, the idea that, you know -- think about it. Take a step back. Here you have the Democratic leadership saying that they do not think that a Democratic senator appointed by a Democratic governor should be seated. It is truly a -- it is truly unprecedented, which is why they are having such trouble.
When we talk about the legal and the political angle of this, obviously politically, it's quite the distraction that is so unwanted by the leadership. I mean, they were hoping that this kind of scene that you're seeing right now would not happen. They were hoping initially that Rod Blagojevich wouldn't name somebody, that they would wait to see what happens with the legal process in Illinois.
But obviously, that didn't happen. So, no. It is something that is -- it is truly stunning. Frankly, it is a political circus, as one Democratic aide told me today, that they tried to figure out how to get around. And that's why, even as they're being so adamant in public, behind the scenes the Democratic leadership is trying to figure out a way, some way that they could figure out how to deal with this.
Some ideas, in addition to that (INAUDIBLE) that we were talking about is, you know, some kind of special election. There are all kinds of things that are being sort of bandied about behind the scenes, because this is something they want to get over and they want to get through. And they want to be able to focus on the things that they campaigned on in order to get here.
I mean, look, you know, what's the reality? The reality is, we have 34 United States senators being sworn in, nine of whom are brand- new. What the Democrats want to do is, they want to be celebrating that. They don't want to be talking about him. They don't want the focus to be on this intraparty controversy, an embarrassing controversy which is going on as we speak.
COLLINS: Yes, I'm afraid that that is not the case today as we continue to look at outside shots now, Dana, of Capitol Hill. Just reminding everybody what they are listening to. Because if you have just joined us, it may sound a little strange. Our Dana Bash is inside the Capitol building. Our Brianna Keilar is outside the Capitol building as Roland Burris -- he calls himself Senator Roland Burris -- arrived just a few minutes ago with his certificate of appointment for this seat.
As you know, he's been named by the governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich, to take over the Senate seat of Barack Obama. So he is trying to hang on to that Senate seat. He will be going and talking with the office of the secretary of the Senate. He'll present that certificate of appointment to that individual, and then we're trying to figure out what will happen from there.
But according to our reporting and our reporters on the scene, likely not going to happen for Roland Burris, at least not today. So we continue to follow this situation for you. We'll get an update in just a moment. Quick break here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Well, it's a big day for the first day of the 111th Congress because of this. Roland Burris arriving, Capitol Hill, just a little while ago, about ten minutes or so ago. We have these pictures for you live as they happened. And quite a scene, as you would imagine. We've been telling you that this was going to happen for a few days now, and even more press than even we could have imagined.
So, obviously, the issue here is whether or not he will be able to hang on to the Senate seat that was granted him by Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. Unfortunately, the Senate Democratic leadership says that he will not be seated, because he was appointed exactly by that person, a governor accused in a criminal complaint of trying to benefit financially from his authority.
So whether or not he will keep that seat is the question today. Many people saying, including our reporters there on the scene, Dana Bash, Brianna Keilar, that is going to be highly unlikely. Right now, you are looking at a podium there. Roland Burris says that there will be a press conference. We expect that that will take place at that location there. Possibly, Majority Leader Harry Reid could be joining him. We are hearing early, early indications of that. For now, though, want to take a moment to get to Dana Bash, who is inside the Capitol Hill building.
And Dana, we've been showing these pictures for the last few minutes or so. Coming out via broadband, kind of some interesting shots that we're getting, and just want to explain to everybody what they're looking at here.
BASH: Well, I'm not sure exactly where the shot is, but I can tell you what's going on. And that is that I am currently standing on the third floor of the United States Capitol, on the Senate side, and we are outside an office where Roland Burris is trying to convince the secretary of the Senate that she should allow him to be sworn in today, sworn in in about an hour and 15 minutes, along with the other 34 new senators of the 111th Congress.
Now, you know, as we've been reporting, yesterday she already rejected that because representatives from Governor Blagojevich's office already tried to present it, and she said no that that was not allowed because it didn't comply with a key rule of the Senate, and that is that both the governor and the secretary of state, of Illinois in this case, need to sign the certificate of election, which didn't happen because the secretary of the state of Illinois refuses to do that.
So, those are the rules under which the Democrats are trying to keep -- at this point keep their word, which is that they will not seat anybody who was appointed by a man they consider to be tainted. A man they consider to be, in the words of Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader, corrupt.
And as we've been reporting, it should not be lost on all of us that the irony of this, and the reason why this is making it so uncomfortable for Democrats, is because we're talking about all Democrats here. The Democratic leadership in the Senate, the Democratic governor of Illinois and the Democratic appointee in Roland Burris. So, it is very uncomfortable.
You know, the Democratic leadership, they were hoping that the kind of, frankly, circus that we're seeing right now inside the Capitol would not happen this morning, but Burris made clear that he believes it is his legal right to be seated, because the governor is able to appoint him and did so, and that is why he is here.
So it is quite interesting -- the other interesting nugget (ph) here, which is a little bit of a subtext is -- just to sort of show you how everybody is related and everybody knows everybody -- the man who was taking Roland Burris around who was basically protecting from the throngs of reporters, is Terry Gainer. He is the sergeant at arms. Well, Terry Gainer was the director of the Illinois State Police. He goes way back with Roland Burris because Roland Burris was the attorney general.
So he is coming into enemy territory in some respects, but he's also seeing a friendly face in Terry Gainer, the man who's taking him around and trying to let him attempt to do what he says he's constitutionally required to do, which is be sworn into the Senate. COLLINS: Yes, in fact, Dana, it probably was very nice for him to see a friendly face. I can't imagine the feeling that he himself must have. Do you think he even expected this much attention?
BASH: Honestly, I do. I think it's been pretty clear since the moment he was appointed that this was a fascinating story, and that -- one that has captured the attention of the media, and, frankly, of the country. And that you know, he realized as he was getting on the plane and had a press conference and reporters were asking him what to expect, that he knew that this was going to be a spectacle that he was going to be involved in.
COLLINS: Right. The secretary of the Senate had pretty much already rejected this notion, this certificate of appointment because it was not signed by both the governor and the secretary of state of Illinois. How long will all of this likely take, then? it seems like it could be a pretty swift decision, correct? And then Roland Burris would, I don't know, just have to go home?
BASH: Yes, it could be. It could take some time. The Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, our Ted Barrett was talking to him in the hallway last night, and he said, you know, look, you know, here's the reality. The reality is that, you know, we're not going to see him now, but we have to wait and see what happens with the court and the legislature in the state of Illinois.
You know, we talked a little bit earlier about the fact that Roland Burris has appealed to the Illinois Supreme Court, saying that he wants them to make sure that because the governor appointed him, he should be duly appointed. That's one avenue of appeal that Roland Burris is going through. And so the Senate Democratic leadership realizes that that is something that's going on.
And it could take, you know, weeks it could be done. (INAUDIBLE) It's just really unclear. What is the plan inside the Democratic leadership right now? They say if they can't come up with a compromise, and this is perhaps an important point to make -- and forgive me if you can hear the yelling behind me. It's just the circus that's going on here.
But with regard to the plan here, initially it was for the Senate Democratic leadership to refer this matter to the Senate Rules Committee. And that's basically how you (INAUDIBLE) was and still is kind of a holding pattern for the rules committee to take up this issue as this goes through the courts in Illinois, if it goes through the legislature in Illinois, and, you know, because there are so many twists and turns to the (INAUDIBLE) issue here, which is Governor Blagojevich.
Who knows what would happen, because there are impeachment proceedings, there are all types of going on in Illinois. They're hoping inside the Democratic leadership that things kind of work themselves out while this is in a holding pattern in the Senate Rules Committee. However, having just said that, there still is the political spectacle and the political drama that just is so unwelcome by the Democrats. So, while they are hoping that things work themselves out, there also seems to be, in talking to sources inside the Democratic leadership, increasing pressure on them, frankly, that I think they're putting on themselves, to try to work something out, work out a compromise with Burris or some other way that this will end sooner, rather than later.
COLLINS: And, Dana, if you can, quickly tell us what some type of deal could be for Roland Burris.
BASH: You know, we reported one possibility yesterday, which is -- which would be to say, look, we don't think you're duly appointed because we think that you are appointed by a governor who is corrupt. But, you know, we would agree to seat you, Roland Burris, if you agree not to run in 2010.
Now, that is obviously a huge political calculation here, and one that I think the Democratic leadership realizes they would be highly criticized for. And the theory behind that particular compromise idea, is that one of the things that concerns Democrats, again on a political level, not a legal level, a political level, is that Roland Burris is someone they don't think can get elected.
This is obviously a (INAUDIBLE) seat. I mean, it's Barack Obama's Senate seat that we're talking about here. And one of their concerns politically is they don't want to lose this seat. And they believe that if Roland Burris is in place, and if he runs again, that they would potentially lose it.
So, that was one of the things they were talking about as a way to sort of get out of it. Say, fine, we'll seat you as long as you promise not to run in 2010. Well, Wolf Blitzer asked Roland Burris that very question yesterday, and he seemed to pretty much reject it.
That's just one idea. There are other ideas floating around. They are holding their cards very close to their vests because I think the other feeling is that -- as soon as these ideas get out, they will probably die a sure and quick death.
COLLINS: Yes, Dana, and do me a favor if you would. Tell us now what's happening and where you are one more time and what you're seeing around you.
BASH: Well, officially, as we're speaking, we're getting word that perhaps Roland Burris is making his way out to the area where -- outside the Capitol, where he's having his press conference.
COLLINS: OK.
BASH: But I'm behind a couple of people so I'm going to check that as I'm walking.
COLLINS: Any indication, Dana, because we've been hearing that Harry Reid may join him at that press conference?
BASH: I have not heard that, Heidi, but to be honest with you, we've been on the phone, so I might have missed that as we've been walking around the hallway. And frankly, that would be a little bit surprising. But the way this story has been going, a surprise would not be a surprise, if that makes sense.
COLLINS: OK, and Dana, we're looking at some of these pictures now once again, live via broadband. I'm trying to make out who we're seeing there. Can't quite tell exactly, but it looks like that is Roland Burris. I don't want to speculate because the pictures are so dark.
Again, just reminding you this is the best way for us to bring you video inside the Capitol building on a day where, boy, this has become the story, the first day of the 111th Congress. We continue to follow this. We're going to take a very quick break, make sure we bring you this press conference just as soon as it happens.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: All right. Happening right now, we continue to follow these live pictures, coming your way via broadband right now, right outside the Capitol Hill building.
Because we have been following Roland Burris today, who arrived just a short time ago with his certificate of appointment that's only been signed by the governor of Illinois and not the secretary of state.
So that is the question now. What happens next? He's trying to hang on to the Senate seat that has been granted him by governor Rod Blagojevich. Obviously in question is the fact that he is actually a governor who is accused in a criminal complaint of trying to benefit financially from his authority.
So Senate Democratic leadership, as well as the office of the secretary of the Senate say that is why Roland Burris cannot hang on to the Senate seat that's been given to him just by the governor of Illinois.
CNN's Brianna Keilar is on the telephone now, and Brianna, last we spoke, you were outside of the building. So I imagine you still are, as we await this press conference that apparently Roland Burris says he's going to hold.
VOICE OF BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I'm actually across the street from the Capitol, and we do believe that there is a -- we do believe that Roland Burris is headed our way.
It's kind of the scene that we saw going in repeating itself. The crowd of reporters and other people around him and we're actually at a location (INAUDIBLE) where there will be a press conference.
We believe he is heading our way, he's still across the street, but, again, presumably, and I have to tell you, Heidi, that I made my way in briefly, but obviously the reporters weren't really able to see what went up in the secretary of the Senate's office. Presumably, he presented his incomplete certificate. We have the picture of the secretary of state, and he was basically turned away. There were so many different scenarios that were discussed over the course of the last few days of what would happen, if Roland Burris showed up, and in the end, it was obviously a media circus.
But to my knowledge, and Heidi, you can correct me if I am wrong, I don't believe that he tried to get on the Senate floor or anything like that, which is something that was discussed.
COLLINS: No, certainly not that we know of. And our Dana Bash is inside that building that has been reporting on all that.
Dana, I'm not sure if you can hear me or not. But --
BASH: Heidi, can you hear me?
COLLINS: Yes. Go ahead, Dana.
BASH: I can actually literally see Mr. Roland Burris -- I should say walking next to Mr. Roland Burris. We are currently walking from the Capitol across the street to the press conference, where -- well, the area where he will hold a press conference, I should say.
And no, there was no indication that he tried to get on the Senate floor. In fact, we thought earlier that would be something that he wanted to do. But this morning he has been talking to aides and Democratic leadership aides who were in contact with him. It was pretty clear that the thing he would try to do was what we have been reporting on, as simply appeal to the secretary of the Senate that he should, in fact, be sworn in, along with the new senators, with the new Congress today, and that is our understanding, what he tried to do.
But we're going to hear from him in a moment -- hear from Roland Burris himself about what he tried to do. And I should give you a little bit of a -- we sort of stopped, because this is a -- this is such a madhouse, frankly, with the press and the people around him.
He has been stopped by the police before he can actually cross the street, which is -- has, you know, traffic on it. And they're holding him here and letting the press go ahead -- actually, ordering the press to go ahead before he comes across. So, it's craziness that is going on here.
COLLINS: Yes, have the press go out into traffic before Roland Burris. Boy. And we're getting a really get shot of all of this.
All right. Dana's trying to make her way across the street there, as you can see, a whole lot of press. And a lot of talking in the background, as well.
BASH: Heidi, Heidi...
COLLINS: Go ahead. BASH: I'm sitting here with Roland Burris is actually signing a picture of himself that is -- was just presented to him by a man in a wheelchair who actually looks like he might even be an employee of the District of Columbia. Stopped Roland Burris on the corner, street corner, and I should tell you, it's raining. Right on the street corner (ph), this man in a wheelchair, and Roland Burris, I'm just sitting here looking at him.
He just signed a picture of himself that said best wishes to this man, so it just kind of gives you a sense of how this story has really become a drama that has taken hold, and people in and around Washington and obviously around the country are aware of what is going on.
COLLINS: Exactly.
Certainly a part of history yet again on this first day of the 111th Congress. Not exactly as the both of you, Brianna and Dana, have been saying, I'm sure, with the Democratic leadership would have liked to see on a day that would have otherwise been a celebratory.
There are a lot of historic people who are there today, but, boy, this is certainly dominated the headlines thus far.
And another side of this story, there's another vacant Senate seat, the junior senator seat from Minnesota, that's open, too. So now this one, as well. Certainly a lot going on, on this very first day of school, so to speak.
And Brianna, maybe I'll toss it out to you now, I'm not sure where your location is at this point.
Over by the podium? Of course, it doesn't sound like we have Brianna.
Dana, I know you're standing very near by Roland Burris.
BASH: Yes, we just crossed the street and he is walking up to the cameras now. He's walking with us. Over to the cameras, so we're going to probably hear him speak in a matter of seconds, probably.
But I also just wanted to sort of correct for the record, there was some question about whether the Senate majority leader Harry Reid would be here at this press conference. I talked to his aide and he is absolutely not going to be here. You know, I think that makes (INAUDIBLE) of Harry Reid and other Democratic leaders want to stay as far away from this spectacle as they possibly can, in terms of images and everything else.
Having said that, Burris as of now, that it does still plan to meet with both Harry Reid and the number two Democrat, Dick Durbin, who happens to be the senior senator from Illinois. And that meeting is still at this point going to take place tomorrow morning.
COLLINS: All right. Very good. As we continue to watch, they're trying to control the crowd here, so that Roland Burris, I believe, can actually make his way to that podium. Right outside the Capitol Hill building and across the street.
We have been able to watch him walk all the way over, completely surrounded by press and by security, quite frankly, as he makes his way up to that podium. Dana bash is walking with him now. Let's go ahead and listen in to what he has to say as he makes his way to the microphone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Umbrella!
ROLAND BURRIS (D), ILLINOIS SENATE APPOINTEE: For the members of the media, my name is Roland Burris. And I am the junior senator from the state of Illinois.
