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Obama Plans Budget Specifics in February; Barack Obama, President Bush, and Former Presidents Meet for Power Lunch; Egypt, France Propose Gaza Cease-Fire Plan
Aired January 07, 2009 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Appreciate it, Heidi. Thank you very much. And as we do, let's bring in our Senior White House correspondent, Ed Henry.
And Ed, among a list of questions for the president-elect, the chief topic internationally these days, obviously, is the situation in Gaza. And again, we heard that familiar refrain from the president- elect, "We only have one president at a time."
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Tony. I was also struck by the fact that when a reporter asked -- basically said, "Welcome to Washington," he had sort of a sly smile and said, "It's great to be here," almost as if, boy, there are a lot of challenges ahead. And Gaza may be the first one, as you say, as soon as he takes office.
Again, we heard that refrain, "One president at a time." That is literally true, obviously, and he obviously expects to get some breathing space here, at least for two more weeks, because he is not making U.S. foreign policy yet. And it obviously could be a big problem if there were some differences between what he started to say and what President Bush started to say.
Nevertheless, two weeks from now, he's going to have to start dealing with this crisis, no matter what. On the economy, as Jessica was noting, that's also obviously a heavy focus for him.
We've got a little bit of news where, you know, he was asked about sort of the price tag, whether it's $675 billion or $775 billion. And he said it was on the higher end of those estimates, but not over a trillion dollars, as other economists have suggested it should be.
Also, though, when pressed on specifics on how he wants to start cutting into this deficit in terms of dealing with Social Security, Medicare, he put that off again, but said, basically, "I'll have specifics in February." That's when the incoming administration has to lay out its first federal budget.
So, again, he's sort of kicking some of these cans down the road. But sooner or later, he's going to be in the Oval Office and is going to have to deal with all of these tough issues. And so he is starting to make promises such as, you'll get specifics on Social Security and Medicare in February. We're all going to be holding him to that, obviously -- Tony. HARRIS: Yes. And Ed, he laid down a bit of a marker, didn't he? He said, look, yes, we're going to be dealing with trillion-dollar deficits for some time to come, but let's be clear about this, I am inheriting a trillion-dollar deficit as well. He laid that marker down, didn't he?
HENRY: Yes, but he is inheriting a trillion-dollar deficit, but he also acknowledged that he's going to be adding to go that trillion- dollar deficit.
HARRIS: He did. He did.
HENRY: He said, look, my economic plan is going to be adding to that in the short term, but obviously he's made this case before, he made it again today, that that's necessary spending. That's what he believes.
Now, Republicans on Capitol Hill have been raising questions about that, and saying, look, we want to stimulate the economy, as well, but how much money can you pour on top of this trillion-dollar deficit, plus, you know, the bailouts that we've seen for the auto companies, the bailout for the financial companies? So you go down the list, he is acknowledging that he's going to be adding to this.
So he is inheriting some of it...
HARRIS: Yes.
HENRY: ... but he's adding to it. And let's not forget, he didn't' talk today about health care. That's something he promised on the campaign, he wants to cover more people. That's going to cost billions of dollars.
So at some point the rubber is going to meet the road in the weeks and months ahead, and the president-elect is going to have to start laying out some specific spending cuts, maybe even some specific tax increases, to cut into this deficit that he says he wants to deal with, with the new chief performance officer. But for now, he's not getting into specifics -- Tony.
HARRIS: Wow. OK. There you go.
Our Senior White House Correspondent Ed Henry for us.
Ed, appreciate it. Thank you. Good to see you.
HENRY: Thank you.
HARRIS: The president-elect is off to a pretty special lunch today. Barack Obama meets with President Bush and all three former presidents for a power lunch -- man -- at the White House next hour.
Elaine Quijano live with a preview of the historic gathering.
Elaine, good to see you.
Whose idea was this to have the former presidents get together?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, hello to you, Tony.
We're told that this was actually President-elect Barack Obama's suggestion, but that President Bush readily agreed. Just a short time from now in the Oval Office, the two men will sit down for another one-on-one meeting. Then we will be joined by all three living former presidents, Jimmy Carter, George H. W. Bush and Bill Clinton.
As to what might come up at either of these meetings, here is White House Press Secretary Dana Perino.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA PERINO, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I can't imagine that there would be a meeting today where they don't talk about the challenges in the Middle East. Every one of these presidents has dealt with the challenges there as they have evolved over time. And given that the economy is number one on everyone's priority list, as well here domestically, I'm sure they'll talk about that as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Now cameras are going to be allowed into the Oval Office just briefly to get some video and pictures of the five commanders in chief. Then they'll be ushered out and the five presidents will head into the private dining room off the Oval Office. We're told, Tony, that lunch is slated to last about an hour -- Tony.
HARRIS: OK. Elaine Quijano at the White House for us.
Elaine, appreciate it. Thank you.
QUIJANO: Sure.
HARRIS: Heightened diplomacy, rising death toll. Day 12 of the Israeli offensive in Gaza. The Jewish state now says it welcomes a cease-fire plan from France and Egypt, but the proposal must hold Hamas rocket fire and prevent the militants from rearming.
Israel's military promised a brief pause in its offensive earlier today, agreeing to a three-hour cease-fire to allow desperate Palestinians a chance to get humanitarian supplies. Grief-stricken Palestinians using the lull in fighting to bury their dead. Following Israel's attack yesterday on a U.N. school, at least 40 civilians seeking shelter were killed, dozens more injured. The U.N. now demanding Israel back up its claims that militants were firing on Israeli troops.
Palestinian medical sources report more than 680 people killed in Gaza so far. More or many of them women and children. Another 3,000 wounded. Israel says three civilians and seven soldiers have been killed in the conflict.
The international outcry growing louder with the escalating death toll in Gaza. A U.N. Security Council open meeting get under way this hour. Live pictures coming shortly. Any U.N. member country who wants to say something about Gaza is being allowed to speak.
Meanwhile, diplomats are still huddling on a resolution or statement by the Security Council.
Joining me from Jerusalem, Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev.
Mark, good to see you. Thank you for your time.
MARK REGEV, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: Thank you. My pleasure.
HARRIS: Let's get to this truce -- thank you -- this truce plan proposed by Egypt and France. What's in it?
REGEV: We've welcomed their involvement, and the idea is to try to bring a sustainable quiet to the south, a sustainable quiet both for the Israelis on our side of the frontier and for the people of Gaza. And the idea is it has to contain two vital elements, and you said them very briefly, but I'll explain them.
One, you've got to get a total cessation of rocket fire, of all hostile fire, from Gaza into Israel. You know, the people of southern Israel have been living for years under the gun of Hamas rockets. That's simply got to stop. We won't accept going back to where we were, where close to a million people are under the gun of Hamas. That's one.
The second point is, we've got to have an enforceable arms cutoff for Hamas. We don't want to see Hamas just rearm, and then we'll have another explosion of violence for four months from now, six months from now.
HARRIS: OK. Mark, let me just jump in here.
REGEV: We've got to make sure that those supplies -- please, go ahead.
HARRIS: Yes. Yes.
I just want to -- do the items that you're listing now, I'm just trying to get an understanding, are they a part of the truce plan that is being proposed now? I'm asking, have you seen a draft, have you seen anything of this plan?
REGEV: I think these principles have to be part of any workable solution, and I think they are acceptable to the overwhelming majority of the international community, including both France and Egypt. I don't obviously speak for them, but it's clear that if Hamas is just allowed to rearm, then you don't have a solution at all, then you've got further violence down the line that does no one any good. We have to create mechanisms that work, that prevent Hamas from rearming.
HARRIS: Yes. Mark, and I'm just trying to get a time frame here. Is the -- we understand that the Israeli cabinet was talking about the plan. I'm trying to understand if there has actually been a draft presented of this plan to the Israeli cabinet.
And I'm also curious as to whether or not there has been some agreement by Israel to send envoys to Egypt. And one final question. I know there's a lot here. When might that happen?
REGEV: It's work in progress. There are ideas on the table, the discussions continue. The context between us and the Egyptians, between us and the French continue.
As I say, we're working hard. We want to see a successful outcome, an outcome that guarantees safety for our people in the south, an outcome that creates a new security environment.
That's what we're working for. That work continues.
HARRIS: OK.
REGEV: We're not there yet. I hope we'll be there soon.
HARRIS: OK, terrific. So there is some kind of a shell, an outline of a plan that is being discussed, correct? And then I'll move on.
REGEV: Correct.
HARRIS: OK. All right.
How would you characterize the negotiations? Are we talking about negotiations toward what some have termed a humanitarian cease- fire, or are we talking about a cease-fire that provides space for new talks on a broader peace agreement?
REGEV: No, there are two things happening in parallel. One is a solution that will be sustainable, that will be durable. That's what we're talking about on the French/Egyptian track.
What we had today was a humanitarian window that we created. You know, when this crisis started, we had been supplying the people of Gaza constantly with convoy after convoy of food and medicine. The trouble was, because of the combat conditions in the Gaza Strip, that those supplies were being, you know, being built up in warehouses in Gaza, but they weren't reaching the people.
So we created a humanitarian window, where there is a brief, two or three hour cease-fire which allows the humanitarian aid people to distribute this humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza, where it should go. We are facilitating this sort of humanitarian activity and we will continue to do so.
HARRIS: Got you.
Mark, our understanding was that it was to be a three-hour window, and I heard you just mention that it was supposed to be a two- or three-hour window. Our understanding, of course, was three hours, but that the window closed short of three hours. Can you tell us why?
REGEV: I think we have to be very aware that while we want to work with the international humanitarian community in supplying that aid, we have to be very flexible, we have to be fluid, because it's possible and even stronger. We know that Hamas can try to exploit this sort of procedure for their own military purposes, and we won't allow that to happen.
That's why the way this mechanism will work will be fluid. We won't do it exactly in the same way when we do it next time. We want to keep Hamas guessing. We want to help the people of Gaza, we don't to help Hamas.
HARRIS: Yesterday, an Israeli strike on a school in Gaza killed 40 civilians. Can you explain why that happened?
REGEV: Well, yesterday, some media was reporting that there was an Israeli version and a Hamas version. Hamas accusing us of all sorts of terrible crimes.
I'm happy to say that when the media has reported this and gone to the place and asked questions, both "The New York Times" and AP reported that our version was correct. There was hostile fire from this U.N. educational facility. Our forces were targeted, our forces were only returning fire, and then the blame has to be seriously and squarely placed on Hamas.
Why did they turn a U.N. facility which is supposed to be outside the conflict into a basis for their military operations, and why did they use those poor refugees as human shields? Unfortunately, I have to remind you that this is not an aberration. Hamas has unfortunately done this in the past, it's almost part of their standard operating procedure, to use innocent civilians as human shields and to exploit U.N. facilities when they can.
HARRIS: And is the other reality, of course, is that Israel always has the option, the choice, to return fire into that particular area where you know civilians are staying to get away from the violence. That's also a reality, as well. But there is a choice here. No?
REGEV: No. I want to be clear.
I don't believe -- and it's currently being investigated -- I don't believe the soldiers, when they returned fire, knew that there were civilians in the area. The chief of staff of the Israeli armed forces, Lieutenant General Ashkenazi, on the first day of our ground operation, issued a public order to all troops going into combat. And he said the people of Gaza, those civilians, are not our enemy. It couldn't have been said in clearer terms.
Now, you had a combat unit on the ground, in a combat situation. Someone opened up mortar fire on them. They did what any soldier would do, a Canadian, an American, a British soldier or an Israeli soldier. You're in action, someone opens up fire at you, you return fire. HARRIS: OK. Mark...
REGEV: Now, it's clear that the responsibility for the innocent loss of life lays squarely on Hamas.
HARRIS: OK.
Mark Regev is the Israeli government spokesman.
Mark, again, thanks for your time. We appreciate it.
It appears Hamas is not quite ready to commit to a cease-fire with Israel. A senior political adviser for Hamas spoke just a short time ago with CNN International's Hala Gorani.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our delegation just (INAUDIBLE) Egypt. And they carry all these suggestions about the French/Egyptian proposal, and they will study it. I hope that in 48 hours, the Egyptians will have an answer regarding this very proposal.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL: In principle, are you OK with it? Is Hamas OK with it? So, in other words, can the world and the region hope for a cease-fire in the next two days or so?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The main issue is still being the aggression and ending the siege of Gaza. There is -- any initiative will be -- actually, when the Israelis are stopping their assault on Gaza. Right now, we actually tried to help our people, how this humanitarian aid can cross, and medical supplies.
We need any cease-fire, actually. These are through the Egyptians, the United Nations, in France, or anybody. Because the humanitarian crisis is very huge, and the Israelis left no option.
GORANI: Let me ask you this. You say the main issue is to stop the Israeli aggression, in your words, on Gaza.
Hamas is still firing rockets. I mean, that's the reality on the ground. If the cease-fire can be achieved -- no, but if the cease- fire can be achieved, both sides need to stop.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, the reality on the ground that our people dying, and having genocide, actually. And we hope that world community will do something to stop, actually, this aggression. And then the firing of rockets will stop automatically.
But not now, while we -- every minute, we are being bombarded by the Israeli Apache and F-16s. We are under attack, and we have to defend our people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: OK. The latest interviews, information and images from the Middle East are just a click away. Just log on to CNN.com any time, and stay informed.
Your money, your rebate. Economists and analysts are combing through Barack Obama's stimulus plan. So will it save you money?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: All right. Dow blue chips posting gains in four of the last five trading sessions. So what do we have today? We have a sell-off.
As you can see, the Dow is down -- this is a pretty steep sell- off, down 170 points. Investors concerned by a private report today showing 693,000 jobs were lost last month. My goodness.
The official government report on December's jobless rates is due out on Friday. That's going to be a big one, driving the markets.
All right. Let's take you to Capitol Hill right now.
Let's just show you this live shot and tell you what we're standing by and waiting for. This is a shot just outside of the Senate chambers.
Our Brianna Keilar is close by. Actually, she is on the phone with us right now.
And Brianna, if you would, set the scene for us. Let everyone know what we're waiting for, what we're anticipating here in just a moment.
Oh, there she is. She is live with us.
All right, Brianna. Good morning.
VOICE OF BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
Well, what we're waiting for is for the top two Democrats in the Senate, Harry Reid and Dick Durbin, to come out to the microphones there at the stakeout position. They have just wrapped up a meeting with Roland Burris, who, as we understand, has left the Capitol. So they have had a meeting, obviously, to kind of talk about, you know, what the next steps are.
They have been pretty vague about what's going to -- what the next steps are going to be, Tony, but we do understand that after a lot of pressure on Senate Democratic leaders, there are perhaps a couple of -- at least a couple -- at least a couple of next steps that are being kicked around. This according to Democratic sources who are familiar with deliberations between Senate Democratic leaders.
One of the first ones is something that we reported earlier on Monday here at CNN, and that is that perhaps Burris would be seated under the agreement that he wouldn't run again in 2010, because some Democrats are concerned that he would not be able to retain the seat. And then there is this other idea that we hear is being kicked around, it's the idea of some sort of special election. The details, of course, we don't know what they are at this point, Tony.
So obviously, a lot of pressure on these Democratic leaders. You've got members of Congress, Democrats in the Senate and the House, who say they don't agree with what Senate Democratic leaders are doing here in blocking Burris being seated from taking Barack Obama's vacant Senate seat.
HARRIS: Yes. And let's be clear, as we turn back the hands of time just a bit, to just about 24 hours ago, maybe 25 hours ago now, this was a situation where Roland Burris walked to the Capitol complex, he presented his credentials to the secretary of the Senate. The secretary of the Senate essentially said, your credentials are not complete. That's because there was a signature missing, and that is the signature of the Illinois secretary of state, Jesse White.
And then, Brianna, since you were there, you can take us through everything that happened after that.
KEILAR: Well, he made his way -- as we said, it was a huge just crush of reporters around him. It was quite dramatic. Not what we saw today, Tony.
Today was not a repeat of what we saw yesterday. But yesterday, of course, it was this big crush. And I should say that that issue of the signature from the secretary of state, Jesse White, it is interesting to note that Jesse White was talking to WGN Radio in Chicago, basically being critical of the Senate.
I think he kind of basically said that he didn't like that he had been kind of feeling like he was hung out to dry, that he was basically being pointed to as the major wrench in the works here. He actually said that, you know, he doesn't want to put his signature on it, because he disagrees with Rod Blagojevich's appointment as an embattled governor, but he also said the Senate can seat Roland Burris without his signature. He said his signature is ceremonial, not really a point of law.
So, yes, we saw Burris yesterday after he went up and presented this credential in person, was missing a signature, turned away, as he was the day before, although not in person. And then he came out and gave a press conference and again reiterated what we've heard him say, Tony, "I am the junior senator from Illinois, this is a legal appointment."
HARRIS: Yes.
KEILAR: And so we know that there are a couple of options that his team is considering at this point, either working through this with Senate Democratic leaders, which would, of course, entail conversations, as we saw today -- and you're seeing pictures there on the left of this meeting today. This was a photo-op at the top, Dick Durbin on your left.
HARRIS: Yes, these are pictures just in, obviously.
KEILAR: That's right. HARRIS: OK.
KEILAR: He is -- Dick Durbin there, who is on the left -- a senior senator from Illinois. Not only a leader in the Senate, but also the senior to what would be, if Burris were to be seated, him being the junior senator. And Harry Reid there, of course.
So that was one of the options, figuring this out with the Senate Democratic leadership. The other one, of course, a court battle. That is the other option.
And we are -- there's a bit of a legal team here with Roland Burris. He had at least three lawyers with him yesterday.
HARRIS: Yes.
KEILAR: And they're certainly considering, you know, what they need to do if they can't resolve this through discussion.
HARRIS: You know, I don't want to read too much into this, but we've got some time. And I think we're into our fifth two-minute warning on this moment here, where Dick Durbin and Harry Reid will come forward and give us some kind of a description or comment on this meeting that we're seeing to the left of your screen. But I wonder if it is telling that we're seeing these pictures, but we are not going to see the Senate majority leader -- as they walk to the microphones right now -- Dick Durbin and Roland Burris together.
So let's listen in.
SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: We just completed about a 45-minute meeting with Roland Burris. For me, who had never met the man, it was very enlightening.
Senator Durbin has known him all of his political life, but I was very interested in his political career. He went through that, line by line. It was extremely interesting.
He obviously is a very engaging, extremely nice man. He presents himself very well.
He's very proud of his family. He's got two Ph.D.s and two law degrees. And he talked about how proud he was having those degrees.
He understands, above all else, being a lawyer, attorney general of the fifth most populous state in the union, the law. And we have a situation here that we have had a rule in effect since 1884 here in the Senate that for a person to be appointed by a governor, you have to have the signature of the governor and the secretary of state.
Now, that matter is in the courts. And there are all kinds of rumors floating around when the Illinois Supreme Court will make that ruling. But it appears they're going to do it pretty soon, and as to whether or not the secretary of state must sign the certificate, along with the governor. So once that's done, that will be one step out of the way. The other issue that I think is important is that Roland Burris, to me, appears to be candid and forthright, without any hesitation. He prepared an affidavit that the impeachment committee for the Illinois State Assembly already has, and he's going to go answer any other questions they might have.
He's not trying to avoid any responsibility and trying to hide anything. So that will take place tomorrow afternoon at 3:00 in Illinois. And once that's done, we'll be in a different position to see what we are going to do.
There are a number of efforts that we are going to undertake, one of which would be to send to the Rules Committee. But there is going to come a time when the entire Senate is going to have to act on this. And that day, I hope, would come sooner rather than later. It's -- we want to do what we can do to make sure that everything has been done, and that Blagojevich -- ours (ph) is transparent.
We know that there's been a lot of issues raised as to why we held this up. Well, it's obvious, we have a man who was arrested for trying to sell the office.
Roland Burris, one of the first things he said to us, "Hey, this is nothing that's racial. I understand that." So a lot of people tried to make this a racial issue, but Roland Burris has not. And will not.
We believe that what he's going to do tomorrow afternoon is very important. We believe that court decision is very important, before we can move to the next step.
Senator Durbin?
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: I've known Roland Burris for 36 years in Illinois politics. We've campaigned together and we've really have come up through the ranks our own way. But we've always been friends, and I've always respected him.
He comes to this opportunity to serve in the Senate at an extraordinary time in Illinois political history. When our governor was the subject of a criminal complaint, arrested and removed from his own home, and is now subject of an impeachment proceeding which begins in earnest probably tomorrow in the Springfield and may play out for the next several weeks, a lot of the concern over this governor has to do with the appointment of the -- fill the vacancy of Barack Obama to this Senate seat.
I think it was important that the United States Senate say, and we did as the Democratic Caucus unanimously, that we were going to carefully scrutinize and review the process by which this Senate seat would be filled if Governor Blagojevich was involved. And that's what happened. He chose Roland Burris, and sent his name, and we have been carefully taking a look at that process.
The meeting we had this morning with Roland Burris was a very positive meeting. As I've said, I've known him for such a long time, we were friends and on a first-name basis.
And at the outset, he said, "I want to make it clear that I understand this controversy has nothing to do with my race. And I understand that both of you have excellent records when it comes to racial relations." So I want to make sure that everyone understands, we are trying to deal with this in terms of the rules of the Senate, the laws of our land, the laws of the state of Illinois, and our constitutions.
Now, there is a serious question that has to be asked and answered, and that is whether the secretary of state, Jesse White, an African-American in Illinois, needs to certify the signature of Rod Blagojevich for the appointment of Roland Burris. That decision will be before the Illinois Supreme Court today or tomorrow. We are hoping that they act on it in an expedited fashion. I called the attorney general of Illinois, Lisa Madigan, yesterday, as well as the secretary of state, and urged them not to delay a decision.
Whatever the decision of the supreme court, we want it to be made on a timely basis. And they both agreed that was their intent, as well. We are hoping that at the end of the day, if there is a court order and a mandamus, that the secretary of state would certify the signature of Governor Blagojevich and then comply completely with Senate rules.
As Majority Leader Reid has told you, this has been a rule in the United States Senate since 1884. And since 1917, when we started the popular election of the senators, we have never, ever waived this rule for any election or appointment. Everyone has to present a certificate, signed by the governor, co-signed by the secretary of state. Never been waived in the history of the United States Senate.
So, it's an important rule, and one not easily challenged or changed. The second thing, of course, is that Roland Burris clear the air completely in terms of his appointment by Governor Blagojevich. He has submitted, as Harry Reid told you, voluntarily an affidavit that explains most of the circumstances. Tomorrow he will face questioning from Republican and Democratic legislators about the details of that arrangement. He has said that he will answer every question completely and candidly.
I think that's an important step in the process. If that comes to a positive conclusion, as we believe it will, the next step is for the rules committee to review what has come together here on a bipartisan basis and recommend to the United States Senate, both Democrats and Republicans, the next step. But this was a positive meeting, and it moves us forward.
The last point I want to make to this is this. My state, the state of Illinois, has gone through quite a beating since our governor was arrested. There have been a lot of jokes about it, it's been the subject of late-night television shows and all of the rest of it. But I will tell you that the overwhelming majority of Democrats and Republicans serving in the state of Illinois are honest, hardworking people. They want to clear this record quickly and move forward. Secondly, we are so excited that finally one of our own, a former senator from Illinois will become president of the United States in just a few days. We have one of the most challenging agenda facing us in Congress that any president in Congress has faced since 1933. We have an economy on the ropes. We need to move forward. We need a full complement of senators to work toward that goal as quickly as possible.
So it is our intention to deal with this matter in an honest, open, transparent way with all deliberate speed, so that we can full all of the vacancies and have a full complement of senators working on a bipartisan basis to address the challenges our nation faces.
QUESTION: Senator?
QUESTION: If Mr. Burris able to present his complete credentials to you, if one of those signatures is Governor Blagojevich's signature, it sounds like you're willing now to accept that as a valid document.
REID: Well, you carry it just a little too far. We believe that the certification by the secretary of state is vital to comply with Senate rules. Once that's done, once his hearing is completed tomorrow afternoon, we'll reassess where we are.
There are a number of things we can do. We could refer it to the rules committee, have them report back to us as soon as they can. But remember what all this has brought about. It has brought about transparency and in this appointment. Blagojevich, who has a reputation that's not very good. We had -- this is something that had to be looked into detail, and we're going to continue to do that.
QUESTION: Will you -- Senator Reid...
QUESTION: If there's no actual evidence or assertion that Roland Burris obtained this appointment through fraud or any other corrupt practice, why do you have to have the rules committee investigation if there is no positive evidence to impeach him at all, that I've seen?
REID: Well, we're not talking about impeaching Roland Burris.
QUESTION: ... his character or the appointment. As I understand it, there has been no evidence or any assertion put forth that this appointment was actually obtained through fraud or any other corrupt practice. Given the absence of that evidence, why do you then have to ask a rules committee --
REID: Well, people ask a lot of times why we have to do various things procedurally here in the Senate. It's because we're the Senate. That's how we operate. And I think that this should not be done because Durbin and I think it should or shouldn't be done.
The Senate is going to have to make a decision on this, the entire Senate. Mr. Burris understands that. And we're going to do the best we can to make sure that the state of Illinois has two senators, not one senator. QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
REID: One at a time here.
QUESTION: It sounds like once he has been certified and done what he needs to do in Illinois, that you have decided to seat him, that you don't have a problem with him as an individual, despite who appointed him. Is that correct?
REID: First of all, understand that we don't have a problem with him as an individual. At this stage, the process is working out. As we have outlined for you, there is a court case pending now. He's going to testify tomorrow afternoon. And that is such an important hearing tomorrow afternoon, because he will be testifying under oath, as he did with his affidavit that he filed.
It's important the Senate get the full benefit of that. When you have a governor that is obviously charged with some bad things, we have to be totally open and above board on this. So, we're going to move forward as quickly as we can as we have outlined.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
REID: You can yell as loud as you want, I'm not going to respond. Other people are being more polite.
QUESTION: Just a technical question. You said that ultimately the entire Senate will have to make a decision on this. Are you suggesting that there will be a vote of the entire Senate on whether or not to seat Roland Burris?
REID: I think without any question that will be the case.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: OK. And there you have it. A lot in that statement there, and then the q and a session that followed there with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and the senior senator from the state of Illinois, Dick Durbin.
Let's bring in our congressional correspondent, Brianna Keilar. Brianna, a lot there. But at the heart of it was Harry Reid answering a question and telling everyone listening that the certification of the secretary of state in this matter is absolutely vital to move forward.
Now, there are some other things that need to happen as well. And we can circle back to some of those. But that is the clearest statement as to where this is going right now. And it would appear to put the secretary of state from the state of Illinois, Jesse White, on the spot. But he is suggesting, as you mentioned earlier, that his signature is not needed for Roland Burris to be seated.
KEILAR: Well, and it doesn't only put Jesse White on the spot, but it also puts at this point the Illinois Supreme Court on the spot because Roland Burris has asked them to sort of intercede. And you heard Dick Durbin refer to mandamus. There's been a request for a writ of mandamus. This is basically forcing the secretary of state to sign.
So, what you heard -- and let's boil this all down, Tony, though. The fact of the matter is, is there is no final deal. But I guess you could say, judging by this discussion, and judging by what we're hearing here, things are looking up for Roland Burris much more than they were yesterday.
But let's highlight exactly what we heard Harry Reid and Dick Durbin say in terms of next steps. And it looks like we'll have something playing out here over the next day. Harry Reid's saying that the Illinois court is probably going to rule today or tomorrow on basically whether Jesse White's hand is forced, and if he has to sign this certificate of appointment.
And then the other thing you have that he mentioned has to happen before they go on and figure out what is going to happen ultimately is that Roland Burris is going to be speaking tomorrow afternoon to Democratic and Republican lawmakers, state lawmakers in Illinois, and he's going to be answering questions about exactly what happened as he was appointed. Because they're trying to clear up if, you know, basically this was on the up and up, this appointment by Rod Blagojevich -- Tony.
HARRIS: And essentially, he would, you would think, be repeating much of what is in the affidavit that I'm understanding he must have submitted this morning to Dick Durbin and Harry Reid, correct?
KEILAR: Certainly. And what he said to them was basically that, you know, they said they felt that he was -- certainly Harry Reid said they felt he was candid and forthright. And so, certainly at least on a personal level, they're saying positive things about him.
But understand, they're under so much pressure, Tony, you could tell because you heard them talk about the fact that this has become an issue of race. And they addressed that head-on. This has become an issue of race. Roland Burris, if seated, would be the only African-American in the Senate. You now have just in the last day, the NAACP has said they back Burris. We've heard again from Congressman Bobby Rush, an Illinois lawmaker here on Capitol Hill, who said that he's not calling the Democratic leaders racist, but that this was a racist action for them to block him.
We've also heard from Congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr., who had actually thrown his hat into the ring for this very Senate seat. And he said that as this whole situation becomes more racialized, the chances for Democrats to hang on to that seat in 2010, that they really get a lot tougher.
So you heard Dick Durbin say and Harry Reid say, Roland Burris understands this is not a race issue. You heard Dick Durbin say that Roland Burris told them, I understand that the two of you have good records when it comes to race relations, so you can tell they're sort of on the defense of this.
HARRIS: You are all over it. Brianna Keilar for us on Capitol Hill. Brianna, appreciate it. Thank you.
Still to come, your money, your life. The news isn't good as more companies announce layoffs and restructuring.
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HARRIS: A family clothing store ripped to shreds by the economy. Goody's is the first big chain to go bust in the new year. Inventory being liquidated, all 280-plus stores closing. Goody's says it was not able to make a deal with creditors after filing for Chapter 11. The future of its roughly 10,000 employees -- 10,000 -- uncertain right now.
Furniture company Ethan Allen eliminating 350 jobs. The company says it is closing a Pennsylvania upholstery manufacturing plant and several retail service centers. Operations at the Pennsylvania plant will be transferred to locations in North Carolina and California. Ethan Allen has been hit by the troubles in the housing market and cuts in consumer spending.
Believe it or not, it's almost tax time. The IRS will start accepting returns this week. But this year, many Americans could be getting a break from the tax man. Susan Liscoviz at the New York Stock Exchange with the details, and I'm all ears.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Tony. A watchdog group says this new plan gives the tax man a heart plan. The IRS now offering to waive some late fees and negotiate new payment plans. The agency will also temporarily postpone seizing some people's assets.
It's not for everyone, and yes, you still have to file your annual tax return, said the IRS. Those people must prove they can't pay their taxes, so it's not a free ride. Basically, you need to get on the phone or go to your local IRS office and make your case -- Tony.
HARRIS: I'm willing to do that. Any idea how many people could be eligible?
LISOVICZ: I don't think you are. Tony. Not yet.
HARRIS: (LAUGHTER) Probably not.
LISOVICZ: The IRS isn't giving any numbers. But if history is any guide, it could be millions of us. The IRS seized homes, cars, garnished wages and put property liens on more than 3 million taxpayers in the last fiscal year.
And this year, more people are expected to fall behind on their tax payments, largely because of the economy. Alcoa, for example, you were talking about Ethan Allen seconds ago, Tony. Alcoa said it's cutting more than 13,000 jobs. Alcoa shares right now down 8 percent.
Meanwhile, Intel and our parent company, Time Warner, issuing dismal quarterly outlooks. The Dow right now down 140 points, Nasdaq down -- they're each down at least half a percent. And Time Warner shares, if you want to know, down 6.5 percent, $10 and change a share, Tony.
HARRIS: Need another "Batman" movie or two.
LISOVICZ: Keep working.
HARRIS: Yes, keep working.
LISOVICZ: Keep working, Tony.
HARRIS: All right, Susan, thank you. Yes. No chance of me stopping, that's for sure. You know, we've seen -- I guess we're seven days into 2009. Yes, yes, yes. But it's not too late to make some resolutions.
Let's take a trip to CNN.com's iReports desk and check in with Tyson Wheatley. Tyson's corner. Tyson's helping us run things down there. And Tyson, what do you have for us?
TYSON WHEATLEY, PRODUCER, PRODUCER, CNN.COM: Hey, Tony. Well, we've got some journey to change. Last week, we were inviting our viewers to share sort of healthy resolutions for 2009. And the plan is, we're going to follow some people.
And I want to introduce you today actually to the first person that we're going to follow. And her name is Jian Kim, and she's a 34- year-old freelance writer from Seattle, and she's already made some major changes in 2009. But she's ready to tackle perhaps her biggest challenge to date, which would be dropping nearly 70 pounds in one year. And in this video I'm going to show you, Jian explains why she is ready to conquer this goal.
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JIAN KIM, PLANS TO LOSE 70 POUNDS IN 2009: I made a lot of changes. I quit my job. I started pursuing my passion, which is writing. And just so many wonderful things have happened since then that I just kind of am riding on that momentum and really taking it to the next level, which is getting my mind and my heart and my body and my health into shape.
And for whatever reason, I feel compelled to put it up on the Internet, on CNN. And hopefully, you know, it will encourage me and give me accountability.
(END VIDEOTAPE) WHEATLEY: All right, Tony, so that's pretty bold, putting yourself out there like that.
HARRIS: I like it. Yes. Be bold in '09. I've got to ask you something. We've got the inauguration coming up in just a couple days here, really a couple weeks, less than that, really. And I'm wondering, are we putting our iReporters to work? I mean, there have to be all kinds of opportunities for us and our iReporters.
WHEATLEY: That's right. We're going to be doing several big projects ahead of the inauguration. This is just one of them, actually. And it really has to do with all of the, sort of the inspired art that we've seen a lot of around the Obama campaign and also the historic presidential win.
And what you're looking at right here is from Michael Murphy. This is an art professor at Georgia College and State University in Milledgeville, Georgia, and he created this piece out of wire. And it took him three days to make. And, you know, basically, Michael tells us that Obama to him represents hope, and he wanted to make a powerful representation. He also wanted to make a piece that the viewer could be rewarded to by looking at just the right --
HARRIS: Look at this.
WHEATLEY: Let's go ahead and skip ahead. Yes, you're going to love this. This is from Jason Dooley. He's a 27-year-old graphic design student at Georgia State University. This is a topography project, and the concept was inspired by the movie poster, "The Passion of the Christ," where --
HARRIS: Wow.
WHEATLEY: And you know, to him, he said he wanted to create something that depicted pressure, strength, and uncertainty, all within one image. And, you know, the way he did this, if you look closely, he used several layers of handwritten type.
HARRIS: Yes.
WHEATLEY: Including passages from the Bible, campaign speeches and from Julius Caesar. So as with all great art, open for interpretation, and this is a great example of ways people are being creative.
HARRIS: A little caveat on that. Yes.
WHEATLEY: We're inviting people to share their creative, artistic portraits, if you will, of Barack Obama and his family.
HARRIS: Tyson, appreciate it. Thank you. Good stuff.
WHEATLEY: Take care, Tony.
HARRIS: See you tomorrow, man.
WHEATLEY: Bye bye.
HARRIS: Going to the gym today? I forgot. Hit the snooze button one too many times. You know, so many people trying right now to lose weight and looking to Oprah for encouragement.
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BOB GREEN, OPRAH'S TRAINER: Kudos to Oprah. She comes out in a very public and candid way explained that she is struggling with this. And I can't tell you the outpouring on her Web site, oprah.com, mine, the bestlife.com. We're flooded with a positive response because we hit a chord or she hit a chord with people out there.
People are struggling with this, and the irony of it is that people quickly forget that Oprah lost a total of 90 pounds and for the most part kept most of it off.
Disregard the stories, there are slight fluctuations like everyone has, but she kept it off for close to 15 years. Now, she put only 40 of that back and has since gotten back on the wagon.
So, you know, I look at it as reflection of our society and ironically, there's about a 5 percent to 12 percent success rate for people that need to lose 75 or more pounds.
LARRY KING, HOST, LARRY KING LIVE: All right. Got to get a break.
GREEN: And she still kept most of it off. So, I think, I'd give her a lot of credit for coming forward.
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HARRIS: Oprah Winfrey's trainer on CNN'S "LARRY KING LIVE." You know, after years of yo-yo weight and a recent 200-pound confession, Winfrey is now working to get her health back.
And here to talk about the effects of yo-yo dieting, CNN's Judy Fortin.
Judy, good to see you.
JUDY FORTIN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You too, Tony.
HARRIS: I think I know the answer to this question, but I want to ask you, anyway, just to get it out there and get your thoughts on it.
Is it dangerous to work your way up and down the scale?
FORTIN: You know, it's a good question to ask, especially this time of the year. So many people are on diets after new year's, right? So many people have made resolutions.
So, we checked with some experts. Some people said it really messes with your metabolism to do yo-yo dieting.
But that has not been substantiated by the evidence that's out there. There are studies that suggest it causes high blood pressure, high cholesterol and even kidney stones. But the evidence is no where near as strong as what we know to be the risks of being obese, right?
High blood pressure, cholesterol, kidney stones, the list goes on, stroke, diabetes, cancer, arthritis. So you shouldn't thin because you constantly yo-yo diet that you shouldn't diet at all. That's not true.
And it's important to note that the greater risks may be psychological. What's in your head. That feeling of happiness and elation when you lose a good amount of weight can lead to a huge drop in self-esteem if you gain it back. That can be dangerous for a lot of dieters.
HARRIS: What can be done to break the cycle?
FORTIN: You know, we'd make a lot of money if we had the golden key for that, right? But, again, we checked with the experts. And here's what they said. There are really two big tricks that can kind of anchor you down so you don't rebound from losing weight.
The first one is to make sure you have some accountability. Get a diet coach. A diet buddy. Someone who's also trying to lose weight with you. Maybe you check in with a friend or spouse. Someone who will keep you honest and on track. That helps.
The other thing, number two, is make sure you establish red flags to look for, like a marker that's going to help you recognize when you're putting that weight back on. It can kind of sneak up on you, those two to three pounds. And you need to be vigilant about it.
HARRIS: Is there a diet, we know that Oprah lost most of her weight on a liquid diet, but, Judy, is there a diet that really works?
FORTIN: Well, the people who go on some of these fad diets say that they do really work. But here's what's happening with the fad diet. It's really taking off some of the water weight and the muscle tissue, not actually burning off the fat tissue.
The slower, more steadily you lose the weight, we're told, the more likely you are to keep it off. So, Tony, you're looking for the magic bullet, here it is.
Here's five things you can do right now to successfully lose weight. Eat breakfast. That's your fuel for the day. I tell my kids that every day. Eat frequently several meals a day four to five hour apart. That way you're not too hungry all the time. Eat consistently on weekdays and weekends. Don't change your patterns. Weigh yourself at least two to three times a week, and the most important thing, number five, exercise. We say it all the time. But the people who are most successful at dieting stick with these five tips, and they say it works. HARRIS: And you've got to give yourself a bit of a break here. You didn't gain the weight overnight. You're not going to lose it overnight.
FORTIN: Cut yourself some slack and get some will power.
HARRIS: Exactly. I believe you're right.
Judy, good to see you. Thank you.
A historic moment happening just minutes from now at the White House, and we have got you covered right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
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