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Israeli-Palestinian Solution?; Trigger-Happy Police?
Aired January 07, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Making news right now: following up. You saw this one yesterday. Now two more cases that make you ask, did police use excessive force?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you doing? Why are you still shocking this man?
SANCHEZ: What is going on? What's with the Taser? And did they know this guy played W.?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "W.")
JOSH BROLIN, ACTOR: I'm sure historians will say, gosh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There is a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. We get it. But can they?
ROLAND BURRIS, FORMER ILLINOIS ATTORNEY GENERAL: To represent my great state. And that is my love. That is my desire.
SANCHEZ: Burris watch, day two on Capitol Hill. Is he in or out?
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": I can't believe I'm still talking about weight.
SANCHEZ: She has everything, but she just can't do it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She tried to keep it a secret.
SANCHEZ: Now she's admitting to it.
WINFREY: I said, I give.
SANCHEZ: It's lunchtime in L.A., 1:00 p.m. in El Paso, where the city council wants to legalize drugs, seriously. What do you think? Tell us on Twitter, Facebook, and more, as our national conversation begins right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez here at the world headquarters of CNN in Atlanta. And I want you to begin with a conversation about something where I want you be able to decide after you watch some this video, is this excessive force on the part of police? We have got a couple of different cases to show you.
First, watch this video. This is Josh Brolin. It's about a your ago. He was in the middle of shooting the movie "W.," which you just saw some clips from. He is also with Jeffrey Wright, who played Colin Powell in the movie. There's a bar brawl. They go outside and police approach them. Let's listen to this (INAUDIBLE) sound up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You realize you guys are being recorded, right? You realize this? Do you realize...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) are you doing?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There's obviously going to be a lot of questions about this. Did they know who he was? Why was there being an arrest? Why did they have to use the Taser? And Mike Brooks is going to be joining us in just a little bit and he's going to be taking us through this.
But now there's another case. As we were coming ready to go to air, we have been putting this one together. This one is coming out of a place called Bellaire, Texas, not a very big town. As you may have heard me discussing with Kyra just a little while ago, it's like 90 percent white in that town.
Two young men show up in their own driveway. Their mother comes out to talk to the police officers after they're pulled over. Suddenly, a gun goes off. He's down. In fact, we have got a picture of him. This is what he looks like. His name is Robbie Tolan. His father was a Major League Baseball player, by the way, important to point out. That was Bobby Tolan.
He has a punctured lung and he's got a bullet in his liver. This is what his cousin said when interviewed and asked what it was like when police pulled them over that night in their own driveway at their own house.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY COOPER, COUSIN OF ROBBIE TOLAN: He jumped out the car and fled into the grass with a gun and a light shining in our face. We did not know it was a police officer. We just thought, you know, who is this guy with this gun and this flashlight? Who is this?
And he didn't say, hey, let me see some I.D. Let me see some I.D. or anything. He didn't acknowledge the fact that he was a police officer or nothing. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It's important to get to the facts of a case like this. Let's tell you what the police are saying. They thought that this was a stolen car.
They did order the suspects to drop to the ground. And when his mother came out, according to the family, she was tossed against the garage, at which point her son saw that and said to the police officers, what's going on?
He reacted. And that is when he was shot.
Mike Brooks is joining us now. He's standing next to me.
You have got a lot of experience with this kind of thing. We are going to be joined by Eddie Lavandera. Eddie Lavandera is standing by in Texas. He's been looking at the police report on this.
Mike, let me begin with you. It's a community that's 90 percent white.
MIKE BROOKS, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Fifteen thousand total population.
SANCHEZ: Police officer's white. Two suspects are black. They're in their own home. Is this -- in fact, let me stop myself. I want you to hear what their lawyer has to say. Go ahead and play this, Rog.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID BERG, TOLAN FAMILY ATTORNEY: The Bellaire Police Department came to this home for no reason at all. And a member of the police department shot a very good young man down in cold blood. There's no doubt in my mind that, if these had been white kids, this does not happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You can't help but look at this and wonder whether, if nothing else, a lot of people are going to look at this and say this is a case of driving while black.
BROOKS: A possibility. But, again, there's an investigation going on right now.
There's a couple questions that I have. And maybe Eddie can help answer these questions. Number one, I looked on their Web site, Bellaire's Web site, and it looks like Sergeant Cotton probably in uniform because it has him down there as a sergeant from the 11:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. shift.
SANCHEZ: That's important. Yes.
BROOKS: Did they have their lights on when they pulled up to the garage?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, let me stop you there.
Eddie, do we know the answer to any of those questions? You have been following this thing. Because you hear him where he talked moments ago, the cousin. He says, we didn't even know these guys were police officers. All we see is a gun and a flashlight in our face.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right.
We do know that, according to the family's attorney, that the two officers that were called out to this scene were in a marked car, and that they were wearing police uniforms. In part of that interview from the cousin, you heard him mention that it's dark. It's 2:00 a.m. It's dark, so if you have a flashlight pointed at your face, it's almost impossible, depending on exactly the situation was, but to see behind the light is very difficult.
SANCHEZ: And, usually, if you're pulling into your own garage, I would assume, you're very comfortable. So, all of a sudden, there's a light. And you're saying, what the heck is this?
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: But what led them to believe that this vehicle was stolen? That's my other question.
Ed, do they say at all what reasonable suspicion they had to say that this car possibly was stolen?
LAVANDERA: Well, that's the -- the police investigation, I think, is focusing in large part on that. What was it? There were reports that night of various cars in the area being stolen.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Was there a BOLO on this specific car or one that matched its description, you know, a be-on-the-lookout?
LAVANDERA: Right. That's the question that police are being asked. And that's what they say that they're investigating. As far as we know now, they don't have any answers on that, or at least aren't telling us the answers on...
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: And the other thing, Rick, what made Sergeant Cotton feel that his life was in imminent danger?
Now, it's very difficult. I can tell you of situations where other people get involved, you have got these two. Apparently, they were very compliant at first. They were down. They were investigating whether or not the vehicle was stolen. Then the parents come out of the house. And that's when things apparently escalated. SANCHEZ: Well, because he's seeing his mother, allegedly, thrown against a garage door and you're going to react. Who wants to see that?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But here's the question that I have for you, as a former police officer. It always comes down to, why would you let a situation like this escalate? And it seems to me that a lot of young police officers allow this to happen...
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: This guy was a 10-year veteran.
SANCHEZ: Well, then, how did he let it happen?
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: You know what? I wasn't there. We weren't there.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BROOKS: It's hard to say, because you're trying to control the situation. If you have a mother who comes out and is highly upset that her son is being -- on the ground at his own house, while the police are investigating this, maybe didn't know this, things can get out of hand.
And then they did the -- did they say, show me your hands? Did he go to make a movement? These are all things that are going to be part of the investigation to find out why he used deadly force.
SANCHEZ: And we're going to be checking on it. And we want to be as fair as we can to both sides.
BROOKS: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: And we will continue to -- you called the police department today.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: Right. I haven't heard back from Chief Holloway.
SANCHEZ: And, as soon as you, let us know.
BROOKS: I absolutely will.
SANCHEZ: And we will be putting on their side of the story as well.
Here's the other one I want you to react to, if you can. This is the case of Josh Brolin, obviously, you know, the son of his father. And his stepmother is Barbra Streisand. He's shooting the movie "W." He's in Shreveport. He's at a bar. A fight breaks out. He goes outside in the area of the sidewalk, when suddenly he's approached by two police officers.
With him is Jeffrey Wright, the other actor in the movie. He's arrested as well. He's the one who played Colin Powell. Now, watch this play out for yourself. It lasts about a minute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You realize you guys are being recorded, right? You realize this? Do you realize...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, hey, get back. Get back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you doing? What are you doing? Why are you still shocking him? Why are you still shocking this man?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Oh, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back. Get back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Now, Mike, let me tell you, first of all, police officers in Shreveport are saying they're dropping all charges against both of them.
BROOKS: Right.
SANCHEZ: What does that tell you?
BROOKS: Well, a lot of times, when you have a bar brawl -- now, keep in mind, it was Brolin, Wright and members of the crew were -- alcohol involved, apparently a brawl inside. Police get there.
SANCHEZ: And police should be there.
BROOKS: Absolutely. And what the video doesn't show is what happened before that. Was Josh Brolin, was he compliant, was he not compliant? And what is the, as I call it, the force continuum that they used?
A lot of times, it will be verbal. And if you're not compliant, then they will go to hands on. And then they will possibly go to pepper spray. But some departments where Tasers are employed, which is a great control device -- we talked about Tasers yesterday.
SANCHEZ: Yes, we did.
BROOKS: Sometimes, they will go right to verbal. And if you're not compliant, then they will go ahead and Tase you.
SANCHEZ: But what is not compliant? How soon do you have to...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: You're already handcuffed.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me just ask you flat-out, because this is something that bothers me. Why would you ever Tase someone who's already in handcuffs?
BROOKS: That's the problem. Right when they show Wright -- Brolin got pepper-sprayed and he was to the side. Then you have got Wright.
They're trying to get his hands behind his back. If they had a nightstick up there and they were using it on him, that wouldn't look good either. Taser is a -- everybody talks about Tasers. Tasers are a great control device, compliance device. And it lasts -- you have been Tased.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BROOKS: You know what it's like. It doesn't last very long.
SANCHEZ: Oh. If done right, it's the best thing in the world. It keeps you from using a gun.
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: And every department who has employed Tasers, there is -- officer injuries are down. And the other thing that are always down, citizen complaints.
SANCHEZ: You know, one other thing that is interesting about the tape, and I guess I just have to say it, because...
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: And we don't see the whole tape.
SANCHEZ: This is the elephant in the room. You ready? You don't even have to react to this.
BROOKS: OK.
SANCHEZ: You have got a white suspect and a black suspect. One of them is handcuffed and put in the car. The other one is thrown on the ground, handcuffed and Tased.
BROOKS: Well...
SANCHEZ: That's it.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: We will leave it at that as we continue to look at this story.
BROOKS: We didn't see the whole story.
SANCHEZ: Mike Brooks, we thank you for joining us with that.
BROOKS: All right, buddy.
SANCHEZ: When we come back, there is a solution to the conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians. And we're going to tell you exactly what it is, breaking it down for you.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez here in the world headquarters of CNN.
We have got a reaction from the stories that we brought you just moments ago. As a matter of fact, let's go ahead and go to our Twitter board if we can, guys. We will go through a couple of them here real quick, if we possibly can.
"In countries like Britain, police don't carry guns and can't we adopt that here, especially after these incidents?"
"Why Tase someone who is already handcuffed?" Interesting. Same question we asked.
"The Bellaire situation proves that Tasers should be used instead of guns, less mess, similar results."
There you go. Interesting that people would be reacting in those ways, because it almost seems like the stories cancel themselves out.
Here's a story that will not cancel itself out. As we speak to you right now, the United Nations Security is meeting to try and come up with some kind of resolution that will end the conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis, specifically there Hamas in Gaza.
Also in the news today, there was supposed to be a two-hour cessation of military activity on the part of Israel, but we're being told by our own correspondents it only lasted about 14 minutes. So, they couldn't even stop fighting for two hours -- 700 people now dead -- 3,000 have been hurt since this began.
And I want you to watch this report now. It's being filed by our correspondent Michael Holmes. What it shows is, that while in the past, we have brought you this story from a distance, this is what it looks like from one family's perspective up close.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At a Gaza hospital, doctors try to revive a victim of the violence, their efforts in vain. Twelve-year-old Mahmoud (ph) is dead.
Recording the tragedy, Mahmoud's own brother, freelance cameraman Ashraf Mashrawi (ph), determined, he says, to show the world the human cost of this conflict.
A short time earlier, Ashraf had been filming other, less personal images of the war, the incoming missiles, the damage they do. And then he got a phone call. The family home had been hit by a rocket fired, says the family, from a pilotless Israeli drone.
After the vain efforts of the doctors, Mahmoud is taken home, cradled in the arms of a grieving family. Ashraf continues to film. The family, he says, wants the world to know how his little brother died.
The family says they felt their home was safe -- no reason for it to be hit from the air. Ashraf says there were scores of women and children here. And, after days of being cooped up in the crowded home, Mahmoud and his 14-year-old cousin, Ahmed (ph), were allowed to play on the roof, now pockmarked by shrapnel and spattered with blood. Both boys were killed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Israeli (INAUDIBLE) targeted them with (INAUDIBLE) for them, just for them, and killed both of them.
HOLMES: The simple goodbyes to a lost child begin in the car, on the drive to the cemetery, itself a dangerous journey. There is little time in this war for ceremony, preparation even brief itself. Just hours after play turn to death, Mahmoud is laid to rest.
Michael Holmes, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: One family's story.
Karl Penhaul is standing by now. He's following the situation out there.
Karl, bring us up to date on what's going on now.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, on the one hand, as you say, we're hearing talks that both sides are trying to work out some kind of cease-fire to this whole problem.
And, as we're hearing that, on the other hand, we have been seeing Israeli planes dropping leaflets over just beyond where we are on the Egyptian side, on the town of Rafah on the Palestinian side, warning residents to leave their homes because there are going to be impending Israeli attacks.
Now, about an hour, an hour-and-a-half after those leaflets dropped, indeed, Israeli airstrikes did begin. We heard F-16s dropping bombs. We also heard ordnance and explosions going in from unseen vehicles, unseen vessels, possibly warships that are anchored out there in the sea, possibly from Apache attack helicopters.
We saw a lick of flames going up off the one strike, and after another strike, a building appeared to catch fire and was on -- ablaze for about 20 minutes. There didn't appear to be any secondary explosions there. I would suggest that those weren't weapons stashes or arms dumps, but possibly buildings, even possibly those buildings where these secret network of clandestine tunnels are emerging on the other side, because the Israelis have said that one of their military aims is to destroy this network of tunnels which they fear Hamas has been using to smuggle in weapons and ammunition into Gaza -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: Karl Penhaul, CNN correspondent, doing great work for us out there -- we thank you, Karl. Stay safe.
Joining us now, Daniel Klaidman. He is a "Newsweek" correspondent, great authored piece by him this week. If you get a chance to pick up "Newsweek," it explains what the possible solution could possibly be between the Palestinians and Israelis and further goes on to really explain why the Israelis are doing what they're doing right now.
So, let's welcome him and ask the question, given what I saw in your article, it almost looks like the plan is to eliminate Hamas, and thereby make the Taba agreement stick by dealing instead with, I guess, the devil they know, right, Fatah in this case.
DANIEL KLAIDMAN, MANAGING EDITOR, "NEWSWEEK": Yes, that's right, Rick, although, I don't want to be a Pollyanna about this. This is -- there is no suggestion that a peace deal of any sort is imminent.
SANCHEZ: Right.
KLAIDMAN: The point of this piece really is that, despite what is going on right now -- and that report that you showed just shows how this the depths of despair on both sides here -- that both sides ultimately know what the contours of a peace agreement would look like.
There have been lots of negotiations, going back to Clinton, and the Clinton parameters, which that led to Taba.
SANCHEZ: Right.
KLAIDMAN: And there is even an agreement that was negotiated by the current prime minister of Israel, Ehud Olmert, and Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority, that looks very similar to those agreements.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Well, let's suppose it happens. Let's suppose you go in there and you eliminate Hamas, and then you get Fatah to take center stage and you're able to deal with Mahmoud Abbas, who I suppose the Israelis would rather deal with now. Maybe in the past, they didn't.
You have still got issues like territory, for example, to deal with. And that's tough. I mean, for example, if you just look at a map, and I think, Roger, we have a map that we can talk to, right? If you just look at the map of Israel, look where Gaza is, right? And look where the West Bank is. How do you create a country between those two sites?
You mentioned something about actually creating a land or corridor of territory between those two places, right?
KLAIDMAN: That's right, Rick.
This very issue was anticipated and negotiated back in 2000 and more recently than that. What both sides understand is for a Palestinian state to be economically viable, since they're not contiguous, you have to connect them somehow, so that people and commerce can flow freely.
Gaza, by the way, has -- is on the Mediterranean. The West Bank would have borders with Jordan. You need to find a way to connect them. So, the idea was to connect this land corridor, so that people and commerce can flow freely, so that there can be...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: And just to interrupt you, we have that picture, by the way. We put up a map of what it would look like. Rog, I think you have that. That's number two.
Go ahead and continue explaining it, Daniel.
KLAIDMAN: And the point, it would go through sovereign Israeli territory. So, what would have to happen is, that territory would have to be turned over to the Palestinians. That land corridor becomes part of the Palestinian state.
In return, there's essentially a land swap, where an equivalent percentage of land on the West Bank is annexed by Israel. These would be those large settlements near Jerusalem, where the vast majority of Israeli settlers reside. That piece of territory, 3 percent, 2 percent, 3 percent, maybe a little bit more of the West Bank, becomes part of the Israeli state. Those settlers are allowed to stay.
So, this is one of the kinds of accommodations that both sides have reached in previous negotiations.
SANCHEZ: Well, what about Jerusalem? I remember during Clinton's negotiation that ended up in Taba, they really had a tough time with Jerusalem, because it's really a bit of a mess.
In fact, we have got some pictures as well. Look at the map. Look at sites that are either Muslim sites or Christian sites or Jewish sites. And how do you split those? How do you split a city like this? KLAIDMAN: And they're all on top of each other. There is a -- this is a place that has too much history, too much religion, and not enough geography.
And, so, how do you deal with that? It's a very difficult question. When Clinton negotiated, brokered this deal in 2000, which ultimately did not happen, he was very deft in his diplomacy. He essentially demystified the problems in Jerusalem.
One he did which was very clever was to have both sides go off together and come back with a list of municipal responsibilities that they felt they could share. They came back with about 60 items, everything from mail delivery to garbage collection, which sent the message that they can actually deal, they can actually share this place.
Now, what was ultimately too difficult, Clinton proposed a kind of two-tiered sovereignty...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Yes, the religious sites, I mean, what do you do with those?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: If I'm a Palestinian, I'm a Muslim, I don't want somebody who's Israeli taking care or Jewish taking care of that. And if I'm Jewish, I don't want somebody on the Palestinian side taking care of my mosque or my temple.
KLAIDMAN: And -- that's right. And President Clinton suggested that the Israelis have sovereignty over their holy sites, the Palestinians have sovereignty over their holy sites.
They were too close together. They're overlapping. They're on top of each other, as you suggested before.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
KLAIDMAN: That won't work, I don't think. I think that part of the Clinton parameters would have to be dialed back. There are other proposals, however.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: We're out of time, unfortunately, Daniel. Maybe we can do a little bit more of this. But I think what we want to get across to viewers watching us right now, and this is extremely important, is that as we sit right now, and this is what you detail in your magazine, and I would like for people to read, is, there is a plan on the table right now that's somewhat acceptable to both sides.
There's just a lot of T-crossing and I-dotting that still needs to be done.
KLAIDMAN: Well, that's what's maddening about this, is that there is a plan.
SANCHEZ: So close, yes. And they just need to come up with a way of doing it.
In the meantime, the Israelis say, we could probably do it if we examine deal with the other guys, but certainly not Hamas.
We will see if that is what actually comes out of this deal. And that has been what made this conversation so important.
My thanks to you, Daniel. Good story. We appreciate it.
KLAIDMAN: Thanks very much, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Oprah Winfrey says she just can't do it. And she comes out and talks about why she can't. This is a weighty subject.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: CNN.com/Rick Sanchez, we welcome you there, and welcome you here. I'm Rick Sanchez in the headquarters of CNN.
The media circus came to town yesterday in the form of Senate delegates -- or I should say Senate delegate Roland Burris. I had almost forgotten his last name. And he came in the form of someone who wanted in.
Today, the door was opened almost all the way for him. Did it come because of pressure from above, from perhaps Barack Obama?
Here, I want you to listen to this. This is Harry Reid talking about the Roland Burris situation today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: We know that there's been a lot of issues raised as to why we held this up.
Well, it's obvious. We have a man who was arrested for trying to sell the office.
Roland Burris, one of the first things he said to us, hey, this is nothing that is racial. I understand that.
So, a lot of people tried to make this a racial issue. But Roland Burris has not, and will not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It certainly appears like they're doing an about-face at this point. We will let you know. It's just about perhaps getting a signature on a piece of paper back in Illinois from the secretary of state.
In the meantime, there is one community in the United States that wants to legalize marijuana. The question is, what would that be worth for the citizens of the United States? We have the exact figure. We will share it with you, and we will bring you his words when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We're going to bring you this story now. And already we're getting reaction from many of you. I have been checking on Twitter, MySpace and Facebook. And people are talking about Oprah Winfrey on this day.
No, we're not going to go to it now. But I want you to watch this report first. It's by Alina Cho on Oprah's own admitted weakness, what she just can't do.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Oprah says she hit bottom a year ago, when she had to go on stage with Tina Turner and Cher.
WINFREY: I was embarrassed. And I wanted to be anyplace other than there. I wasn't going to do it. I wasn't going to do it.
CHO: And so she says she tried to keep it a secret.
WINFREY: Here I am, one of the most visible people in the world, trying not to be seen.
CHO: She says photo shoots for her magazine became embarrassing, with stylists trying to help her conceal the weight. But after months of hiding it, Oprah is putting it all out there -- posing next to a smaller version of herself and once again opening up about a very painful and personal subject.
WINFREY: I am mad at myself. I am embarrassed. I can't believe I'm still talking about weight.
CHO: It's been a public struggle for decades.
Remember this?
That was 20 years ago -- skinny, size 10 Calvin Kleins, pulling 67 pounds of fat in a wagon.
Just four years later, the pounds were back on and Oprah tipped the scales at more than 230 pounds. She eventually got down to 160 pounds, but says she started feeling sick.
WINFREY: The moment I heard I have a thyroid problem, I just thought well, I don't even know how you fight this. I felt completely defeated. And I think OK, that's it. I give. I give.
CHO: Then it got worse. Oprah says she was put on medication that literally sucked the life out of her.
DR. MEHMET OZ, WINFREY'S MEDICAL ADVISER: Her obesity became an excuse that she could hide behind. Oprah took it one step deeper. She had -- she hid behind her hormones.
CHO: It got so bad, her long time trainer asked if she was depressed.
WINFREY: What?
Me depressed?
I can't be depressed. I know what depression is. I'm not depressed.
CHO: Oprah says that conversation with her trainer and longtime friend, Bob Greene, was a turning point. She says 2009 will be the year hope wins -- that it's about finding balance, about putting yourself back on your own priority list. And Oprah, by the way, says she doesn't want to be thin anymore -- she wants to be healthy, strong and fit.
Alina Cho, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And as you might imagine, we have been getting a ton of responses on this.
Let's go ahead and go to the Twitter board, if we can.
Bella_Casa: "I'm not. I honestly think Oprah looks beautiful no matter how much she weighs."
Here's another one: "If she wasn't famous, would anyone care? Her struggle proves she's human and goes through ups and downs like we all do. Poor Oprah. I'm just glad America isn't obsessed about my weight struggle."
Could you imagine?
No, I couldn't.
When we come back, imagine this -- how many billions of dollars could the United States have if they decided to somehow legalize some drugs? There is a councilman in Texas who says that's exactly what they should do. It would save lives and raise billions. And we'll take you through it with an interview with him, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETO O'ROURKE, EL PASO CITY COUNCIL: We need to say something that's politically difficult for anyone to say, which is one, has the drug war been successful?
Two, if not, should we continue it?
And, three, given that, should we look at legalizing, regulating, controlling, taxing drugs and narcotics in the United States?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That's the councilman. He and the city council said you know what, let's just make it legal -- that's going to stop the problems.
Why?
Because he's from El Paso. It's a border town. And just across the border in Mexico is Juarez.
Do you know how many people have been killed in Juarez because of the drug wars that are going on there just in the last year?
One thousand six hundred people, according to reports. And now we're hearing from CNN en Espanol and Glenda Umana that apparently a drug cartel has attacked a television station because they didn't like the stories that were being run about them.
Let's go to Glenda now. Apparently, we are -- we're able to pick her up.
What are you hearing?
What's this report about?
GLENDA UMANA, CNN EN ESPANOL: Como estas, Rick?
SANCHEZ: Muy bien.
UMANA: Buenos tardes.
We are lucky, you know, that we can work with this freedom, because Monterey, Mexico used to be one of the safest places in the country. Sadly, that has changed.
Yesterday, a bomb exploded in a car parked in frost of the television station. We're talking about Televisa. Now, Rick, thank goodness no one was hurt thankfully. They also shot the building during a live evening newscast.
SANCHEZ: So the anchors are on the air doing the news and they're getting shot up by members of a drug cartel?
UMANA: Outside, yes. This is part of the drug cartel's operation against the press. And, also, I have to tell you, some months ago in Monterey, a reporter and a cameraman who were investigating a narco- trafficker disappeared. They've never been found.
SANCHEZ: I want to introduce somebody now.
Glenda, thanks so much for that report.
UMANA: Bye. SANCHEZ: Because this is what he's talking about. This is Councilman Beto O'Rourke. He introduced the measure in his own city council to just legalize drugs. He says, look, it's probably the only way we can get rid of this problem, because what we're doing right now isn't working.
Councilman, are you there?
O'ROURKE: Mr. Sanchez, I am.
Thanks for having me on your show.
SANCHEZ: How would legalizing drugs solve the problem?
And give our viewers a sense of how big the problem is down there in El Paso and Juarez.
O'ROURKE: Well, first, to be clear, our resolution that passed unanimously yesterday just asked that the ending of the prohibition of narcotics at least be on the table. The reason being this 40-year-old drug war has not worked and is actually making things much worse.
And the most obvious evidence to us, as part of the largest financial community in the world, are the 1,600 murders that you talked about at the beginning of your show. There have also been six reported kidnappings in El Paso, Texas related to this drug war.
And the drug war essentially is making these narcotraffickers richer. They are literally in control of our sister city of Juarez. And it's not reducing the availability or the supply of drugs in the United States.
So we need to rethink this war on drugs. And we ask that all options be on the table...
SANCHEZ: Well, as a matter of fact...
O'ROURKE: ...including the ending of prohibition.
SANCHEZ: As a matter of fact, we've got a study that we looked into. This is a Harvard study, by the way. I want to share it with you and I want to share it with our viewers. You may be familiar with this.
This is a study that says that if we did what you're asking us to do right now, the result would be $44 billion that we spend fighting it, right -- that we wouldn't have to spend anymore. So you're saving $44 billion. $33 billion would be the tax benefit if you taxed people for bringing the drugs or selling the drugs -- however it's done. I imagine it would only be with certain drugs. You couldn't do it with drugs that are lethal.
And the total for the American taxpayer would be a savings of $77 billion.
Now, I know when you look at this problem, you go drugs, ew, bad, don't want to do it, but.
But when you look at the figures, you go would this be any worse or any better than what we have now, right?
O'ROURKE: I don't know that things could get much worse for us here in El Paso and Ciudad Juarez. Again, you literally have a failed city in Ciudad Juarez, that the mayor and, you know, the city council members actually live here in the United States, in El Paso, Texas. The drug lords, for all intents and purposes, have functional control of the city.
And many of us feel it's only a matter of time before that spreads throughout the State of Mexico and you have the prospect of a failed state. And, frankly, we're worried about that violence passing north in the United States.
I do want to say, for the record, we're the third safest city in the United States right now...
SANCHEZ: Well, no, no...
O'ROURKE: ...and we want to keep that...
SANCHEZ: No, I get that and I understand that you've got some things that you want to say.
But, look, this conversation would have been laughable in this country probably five to 10 years ago. Maybe in some circles, it still is laughable. And nobody's saying they need to go in and just make these things legal.
But there's a question that we need to ask here about how much damage is being done now and if we altered the law, how would it change. And there's no -- nobody's being a proponent of this here. And from looking into your background, I don't think that you're specifically a drug user yourself, right?
O'ROURKE: No, of course not.
And I'm glad you put it that way, because I think it's very easy to ridicule these kinds of positions. And you're absolutely right, five years ago, 10 years ago, we couldn't have had a serious conversation about this.
But -- and you'd be surprised at the positive feedback that I've received here in El Paso -- certainly, some negative feedback, as well. But I think the climate's right...
SANCHEZ: Well...
O'ROURKE: ...because the crisis has reached such a level that we want something different than the status quo.
SANCHEZ: It's a...
O'ROURKE: The status quo is simply not working. SANCHEZ: It's interesting -- and pardon me for interrupting, but my producers are saying that we're running out of time. We've got a couple of other segments we've got to get to.
But just as you're speaking, we're getting people from around the country who are writing to us.
Sam Flowers is saying he bets that if marijuana were legally manufactured by a business, we probably wouldn't be in a recession anymore."
And here's Matt Sargent. He says: "Whenever there's a war, there will be more soldiers to fight on each side. The only way to stop the drug war and abuse of drugs is through regulation and education." Interesting perspectives. Obviously, there's two sides to this story and we certainly would like to represent both.
Our thanks to the councilman, Beto O'Rourke, though.
When it comes to violence, what's God got to do with it?
We raised the question yesterday. We raise it again today -- this time with pictures that will probably bug you.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: There is something else to take note of today. And, again, it involves God. Yesterday, I mentioned that using God as an excuse for killing or war is along the same lines of the logic used by history's craziest and most ruthless nut cases like Hitler and Tor Kamata.
Well, your response was voluminous, to say the very least: "Rick, you have no idea how long I've waited to hear someone like yourself ask these questions."
That's from one of about 4,000 people who seemed to rush to our blog at CNN.com/ricksanchez last night when I was done making those comments.
Here's another one: "I stopped what I was doing when I heard the word God. And thanks for delving into a topic that has been too long considered taboo."
Well, your comments are not the only thing that I noticed when I came to work today -- very graphic images. Some you may find disturbing, as well.
Take a look at this.
You see this right here?
These are Shiite Muslim men marking the Day of Ashura. This one believes that Godliness requires the slashing of your head with a sword. These marches occurred in Lebanon and in Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran.
All right, you say, so what if a bunch of guys want to mutilate themselves?
But here 's the point -- what about the children who don't want to do it?
This little boy -- he didn't want his father to cut his head with a pocketknife, but he did it anyway. Neither did the other one that you're about to see right there.
By the way, one father in this case, Mahmoud Jabar (ph), when asked about the bloodletting, spoke for his five bloody sons by saying: "We're used to it. It doesn't hurt, because the cry of pain goes away with our faith." Children being slashed by their own father because of God?
Really, Mahmoud?
You think that's what God requires of you?
It's really tough to reconcile. It's also important to note.
What do you think?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: It's funny the comments you get from people as you're doing this newscast and presenting them with information.
Take a look at this. This is on Facebook. Eedris says: "Whatever people do in the name of religion is right as long as it doesn't tamper with the right of any other man, woman or child."
And then Abrahem (sp) also has something to say. He says: "Thank God I'm a Sunni Muslim. That's just crazy."
An interesting perspective from people as they watch us.
Here's another thing that's interesting. If you're an American, you're probably going to be touched by what you're about to see. And if you're a history buff, even more so -- five American presidents, including the one who's about to step into the office.
Here's the picture.
I want you to watch it on your own and with the sound up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENT-ELECT: ...to work, guys. Come on.
(CROSSTALK) OBAMA: All right.
How are you guys?
Good to see you.
JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I see some old hands here.
Good morning.
(CROSSTALK)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to -- I want to thank the president-elect for joining the ex-presidents for lunch.
I am -- one message that I have and I think we all share is that we want you to succeed. Whether we're Democrat or Republican, we care deeply about this country. And to the extent we can, we look forward to sharing our experiences with you. All of us who have served in this office understand that the office itself transcends the individual. And we wish you all the very best. And so does the country.
OBAMA: Thank you so much.
BUSH: Sure.
OBAMA: Thank you, Mr. President.
BUSH: Thanks to you all.
(CROSSTALK)
OBAMA: I just want to thank the president for -- I just want to thank the president for hosting us. This is an extraordinary gathering. All the gentlemen here understands both the pressures and possibilities of this office. And for me to have the opportunity to get advice, good counsel and fellowship with these individuals is extraordinary. And I'm very grateful to all of them.
But again, thank you Mr. President, for hosting us.
BUSH: Thank you, sir.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Let's bring in somebody who's used to this. You know, it's amazing. It puts a smile on my face to look at a picture like that. It talks about a lot of things, including how democracy works -- that it has a continuation. And thank God it does.
And, by the way, there's another -- Candy Crowley, there's another picture I want you to look at. This one goes back to 1981. These are presidents getting ready to go to Anwar Sadat's funeral. There they are -- all of them together once again, similar to the moment today.
Your thoughts on what you saw today, as an old pro.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, it's always very cool to see that. And it reminds you of that phrase -- the peaceful transition of power. And, you know, it's what democracy is about and it's very fun to see them together.
And, look, there are still hard feelings, obviously. They -- all were in hard-fought races, sometimes against one another -- I give you George Bush and Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter and George Bush 43, the current president. Not a lot of love lost there.
And yet there they are in the Oval Office. All of them made decisions there that affected where the country went. It was -- it was a pretty amazing sight.
SANCHEZ: The reason -- you know, you wonder -- a lot of us do -- whether these presidents rely on each other in times of crisis.
What's been the history of that?
CROWLEY: Sometimes they do. Sometimes they do. Interestingly, we have been told that George W. Bush, the current president, didn't actually talk policy with his father. It was a more father-son relationship.
But we also know that Bush turned to both his father and Bill Clinton to help when the tsunami came overseas.
So they do. They use them cautiously. And we don't know what sort of private conversations go on. But this is the been there, done that crowd. And I suspect that in this luncheon, if they were asked, all of these former presidents and soon to be former presidents understand the players, for instance, in the Middle East and perhaps there's some insight there. Here's this guy and here has been my experience...
SANCHEZ: Yah.
CROWLEY: So I think it can be useful.
But I also think that in Washington, it's not just what is going on on the surface. There are other things. And this is the week that Barack Obama is trying to sell his stimulus plan to Capitol Hill and, in particular, to Republicans. This is a man who campaigned on a different kind of politics and there he is with Republican and Democratic presidents alike.
SANCHEZ: Interesting perspective...
CROWLEY: So that picture is political.
SANCHEZ: You thought of that all by yourself.
CROWLEY: Yes. Hey...
SANCHEZ: Very well done. There's sometimes a reason behind these things.
Candy Crowley, the best in the business.
Thanks so much.
We appreciate it.
CROWLEY: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: When we come back, a bit of an embarrassing situation. You're going to see for yourself. I mean like up side down embarrassing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I am so honored to say this. I just checked over at the board. We're now at 41,000 people who are following this newscast. Wow! That thing is jumping like crazy. We welcome all of you, not just on Twitter -- but another 10,000 or 5,000 on MySpace and Facebook, as well. I've got to get Wolf Blitzer Twittering real soon.
He joins us now to bring us up to date on what's going on in the news.
What do you got -- Wolf?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: It will happen one of these days, Rick.
Thanks very much.
The economy is certainly issue number one on Barack Obama's mind. He says he's serious about cleaning up the waste, kick starting America's economy and bringing down the deficit. His detailed plan, including a new position he's creating.
Will it all work?
And a rare meeting over at the White House -- the next president, the current president and the other living presidents all at the White House -- what they said and didn't say.
And a drama continuing on Capitol Hill, as the appointed Illinois senator, Roland Burris, meets with Democratic leaders. Their decision on what happens next -- we have new information for you.
All that coming up right at the top of the hour right here in "THE SITUATION ROOM" -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: You know, Anderson Cooper, Wolf, told the "L.A. Times" that he wanted me to teach him how to Twitter. So I figure if you guys get together, I'll give you a discount on the lesson.
BLITZER: All right. Good. We'll learn.
SANCHEZ: Wolf Blitzer.
We look forward to your newscast.
By the way, The Fix today -- this is the stuff that we put together for you that you may not have been able to -- you may have not been able to see earlier in the day because you weren't watching TV -- because you were working or something like that.
Here now, where it begins -- with a man embarrassingly up side down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON STEWART, HOST "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART": Blagojevich. Ew. All right. Well, perhaps this Burris, this veteran politician, who, before this, was best known for his work as Ron Johnson on "A Different World"...
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: Perhaps this man's actually qualified and we shouldn't allow Blagojevich's problems to tar Burris's good name. Let's take a look at his resume.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He has his resume chiseled in stone -- literally erected a granite mausoleum at a Chicago cemetery listing his qualifications and achievements.
(VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST "THE COLBERT REPORT": Bernie's business was more than a lie, it was history's largest Ponzi scheme. Now Ponzi schemes get a bad rap. Too often they're confused with the far more devious Fonzi scheme...
(LAUGHTER)
COLBERT: ...where you defraud a jukebox out of thousands of dollars of nickels and avoid tax liability by using a bathroom as an office.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHELSEA HANDLER, HOST "CHELSEA LATELY": There's a man who got stuck on a ski chair lift upside down in Vail pantless.
Can you imagine if that's your father?
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know one thing, I'm going skiing, I'll tell you that much. My mama always said wear clean underwear. His mama just should have told him just wear underwear.
HANDLER: They left him on the ski slope or on the thing -- the chair, I guess the chair collapsed and malfunctioned in some way -- for 15 minutes. And during that 15 minutes, all these other people were taking pictures of him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it's true, like where we live now, people's instinct is to, you know, see if can get a viral video.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But not to help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And you're not going to believe what people are saying about this, as well. What you're saying, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I'M glad we're able to entertain you. Look at this one on MySpace: "LMAO at The Fix."
You know what that means, right?
The first one's laughing, the second one is my, the last one -- oh, I'll let you figure out the other one.
Let's go over to -- let's go over to the Twitter board, if we can, now.
"Stunned by your question on Shia practice of self-infliction. Don't Catholics do the same -- carrying cross, whipping, beating, etc.?"
I guess all I can say is not this Catholic.
Oh, by the way, before we do anything else, I want to get you over now to Wall Street because jobs are being lost in this country. And that, today, affected the market -- two plus two equals four.
Here's Susan Lisovicz.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
SANCHEZ: Let's go to Wolf Blitzer.
He's standing by now in "THE SITUATION ROOM". BLITZER: Thanks very much, Rick.
