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Obama Family Visits Lincoln Memorial; NY Times: Israel Sought U.S. Aid for Iran Airstrikes; Poison Threats Mailed to Seattle Gay Bars; Focus on Police Shootings; Unarmed Man Shot by Transit Officer; 22-Year-Old Shot in Family Driveway; Porn Industry Claims it Needs Government Bailout Too
Aired January 10, 2009 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Iran, missiles, rockets and nuclear weapons -- stunning claims tonight that Israel wanted to attack with America's help. What did the Bush administration say?
These claims come as the fighting in Gaza escalates along with the death toll, new information from the frontlines tonight.
I'm Don Lemon. Also, Barack Obama visits one of his predecessors, an historic family trip before an historic inauguration.
And under the microscope, police in several big cities drawing fire for controversial shooting. It is our focus tonight. What in the world is going on?
Plus, a whole new meaning to the word stimulus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Most people are not happy with those bailouts, but most people say that it's needed in order to keep the American economy vital.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no!
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But hang on, let me make my point.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here's why -- no, no --
LEMON: Most people would not think that a bailout for the porn industry is needed in order to keep, you know, you in jets and limousines, and people like Larry Flynt. You guys can make millions and millions of dollars.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me in jets?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Porn peddlers, take their case on the taxpayers. Our contentious conversation with the man behind "Girls Gone Wild." The news starts right now.
UNIDENTIFIED ANNOUNCER: Live in the CNN NEWSROOM, Don Lemon.
LEMON: Good evening, everyone. Barack Obama is looking to the past for inspiration as he prepares to lead the nation into the future. The Obama Family tonight visited the Lincoln Memorial after dark. Lincoln is a figure who is looming large in the upcoming administration and at the inauguration.
Ten days from now, Mr. Obama will use the Lincoln bible at his swearing in ceremony, and the first president who use it since Lincoln use it in 1861. And Mr. Obama's inaugural theme is "A New Birth of Freedom," which is inspired by Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. One of the president-elect's first order of business will be of course the economy, and he says you and I and everyone else will have to make some very tough choices. He spoke about that in an exclusive interview with ABC News this week's George Stephanopoulos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: Not everything that we talked about during the campaign are we going to be able to do on the pace that we had hoped.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS HOST: At the end of the day, are you really talking about over the course of your presidency, some kind of a grand bargain that you have tax reform, health care reform, entitlement reform including social security and Medicare, where everybody in the country is going to have to sacrifice something except change for the greater good?
OBAMA: Yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And when will that get done?
OBAMA: Right now, I'm focused on a pretty heavy list which is making sure that we get that reinvestment and recovery package in place. But what you have described is exactly what we're going to have to do. What we have to do is to take a look at our structural deficit, how are we paying for government, what are we getting for it, and how do we make the system more efficient?
STEPHANOPOULOS: And eventually sacrifice from everyone.
OBAMA: Everybody is going to have to give. Everybody is going to have to have some skin in the game.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Obviously Barack Obama faces huge challenges here at home. But it doesn't get any easier when you look at overseas. As always, there is the Mideast, where Israel is poised to expand its offensive against Hamas. The latest from Gaza in just a moment.
But first, we want to talk about this. There's a new explosive report out tonight about another Mideast flash point and another potential crisis awaiting Barack Obama.
The "New York Times" is reporting that President Bush last year denied -- denied an Israeli request for high-powered weapons. Weapons Israel wanted to use in a potential airstrike inside of Iran. It is a fascinating report and you'll be hearing a lot about it tomorrow in all those Sunday talk shows and also in the days ahead.
The man who wrote it for tomorrow's "New York Times," is David Sanger. His new book is entitled "Inheritance: The World Obama Confronts and the Challenges to American Power." It comes out on Tuesday. And David Sanger joins us now from Washington.
You are calling this new information and somewhat explosive, why is that?
DAVID SANGER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: The information which has taken a while for us to report out, indicates that Israel did come to the Bush administration in the first half of 2008 as for bunker busting weapons, fairly sophisticated version of them, as for refueling equipment that was given the range to get to Iran, and then also asked for over flight rights over Iraq.
President Bush deflected the first two. He didn't say yes or no. He just didn't provide them. And on Iraq, the White House said absolutely not, because they feared that if it appeared that the United States had helped Israel strike Iran, using Iraqi Air Space, that the result in Iraq could be the expulsion of American troops.
LEMON: I have to say that, Mr. Sanger, that I was reading the story here in the CNN NEWSROOM after it came out, and most of the sources that you quoted, not all of them, are unnamed sources. How do you back this information up?
SANGER: I wish in a perfect world that we would have everybody on the record on issues like this, but that is not what happens in Intelligence reporting. This is an extraordinarily sensitive set of interchanges between Israel and United States. President Bush persuaded the Israelis not to go ahead in part by describing to them a new or expanded covert operations that the United States is trying to accomplish the same goal. And it's simply not a subject given it's sensitive and fairly classified nature that senior officials are going to discuss on the record.
LEMON: And you reached out to the Bush administration, I'm sure?
SANGER: We did. We did.
LEMON: What did the Bush administration say.
SANGER: As you'll see in the story, the Bush administration and the Intelligence community asked us to omit some details that would affect operational events. We agreed to do that. And I suspect that the Bush administration probably isn't going to comment very much on the details of the story given the nature of this kind of Intelligence operation and the sensitivity of the relationship with Israel.
LEMON: They did not comment on the story, but yet they asked you to leave out certain details, can you explain that?
SANGER: The story explains that The Times agreed to omit certain details that we had reported out. Now, of course, the administration, Intelligence officials can ask you to omit details without confirming or denying those specific items.
LEMON: Let's talk real quickly, because I want to get to one of our -- our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr up to this.
SANGER: Sure.
LEMON: But let's talk about this. What does this mean in this world, especially for Barack Obama. What does it mean to the U.S. and especially for this next administration?
SANGER: Well, this is why we ran this story. We ran this story to explain the complexity of the situation that Barack Obama faces. He said during the campaign he wants to engage with the Iranians directly, something the Bush administration has been very reluctant to do. But at the same time, he inherits this operation. And so he's got to figure out how to square the circle of having direct talks with the country while these are going on, or he could elect, I imagine, to modify this program or suspend it.
LEMON: OK.
SANGER: You know, you've got to think a little bit about the kind of choices President Kennedy had when he came in with the Bay of Pigs, a very similar kind of issue.
LEMON: All right. David Sanger from "The New York Times." We appreciate you joining us. Thank you very much now.
SANGER: Thank you.
LEMON: Let's talk more about David Sanger's reporting with our very own Barbara Starr. She's our Pentagon correspondent.
What do you make of these claims, Barbara?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, you know, I think it's an absolutely fascinating report when you read it and this is the subject matter we have all covered for many years. There are some pretty specific clues here that are pretty easy to decipher in certain respects.
We know that the U.S. has been trying to conduct covert industrial espionage, if you will, against Iran's nuclear program for many years, going to the suppliers, going other places, trying to make sure that things get messed up, if you will. That parts may not be what they should be. That certain processes may not work right. Anything that they can do to jam the works to delay the program. We know --
LEMON: But Barbara, is this some blockbuster? Is this some information? I think many people had already -- it doesn't come as a surprise to many people. STARR: Well, I think it's a fascinating story. It depends I suppose on how much you follow the issue and how much you know about it. We don't know what Mr. Sanger was asked by the White House to leave out of the story, so there certainly may be a good deal of detail there.
Whatever this new bunker buster is that they wanted to get from the United States, that's pretty interesting too because Israel already has two very specific kinds of bunker busting bombs. These are bombs they dropped from their F-16s, F-15s, and they can damage underground targets such as this Iranian nuclear enrichment plant that they wanted to attack.
So what's the new kind of bomb that the Israelis thought they might get from the U.S.? What kind of re-fuelling? One of the biggest challenges for military force in trying to attack Iran's nuclear program, how do you get in to Iranian airspace. How do you get out of it without the Iranians coming after you.
LEMON: Yes. Barbara Starr, Pentagon correspondent. Barbara, very interesting because this is exactly what Barack Obama is inheriting in just ten days. We appreciate your reporting. We also appreciate David Sanger in talking about that on what's happening overseas in the Middle East.
We want to update you now on the current crisis. Fires from Israeli airstrikes have been blazing overnight into Sunday morning in Gaza. More than 800 Palestinians have been reportedly killed since the assault began. 13 Israelis, including 10 soldiers have been killed. The Israeli Air Force dropped leaflets Saturday warning residents to leave some areas and threatening to escalate its attack which began with airstrikes back on September 27th.
Meantime, thousands of people across Europe protested the Israeli offensive. Up to 20,000 people gathered in London and other big marches were held in Paris, Berlin, Barcelona and Milan.
Meantime, back here in the U.S., a high profile interview for Hillary Clinton's potential successor in the U.S. Senate. CNN has confirmed that New York Governor David Patterson met with Caroline Kennedy today at the governor's Manhattan office. Patterson's spokeswoman offered no details about the meeting or even how long it lasted. The governor had said he will name a successor to Clinton after she is confirmed as secretary of state.
Gay bars in Seattle targeted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If that person is out there, they're going to find out that they're not going to be able to carry through with their plan because we are being vigilant and we are taking the necessary precautions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The threat and what the police and FBI are doing to protect the community. We want to know what's on your mind tonight. As always join the conversation. Go to Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or ireport.com. Tell us what you're thinking. We'll get your responses on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We have been getting a lot of responses from our viewers on these next three stories. There are three high profile shootings around the country and they have captured national attention, and raised series of questions about police procedures.
In Oakland, California, 22-year-old Oscar Grant was shot to death on New Year's Day by a transit officer allegedly after a fight on a train. A cell phone video appears to show Grant on the ground when an officer apparently pulled his weapon and fired. The shooting sparked riots in Oakland. The California Attorney General has appointed a prosecutor to monitor the investigation.
Check out this one in Houston. The son of former major league baseball player Bobbie Tolan is recovering about being shot outside his parent's home. Police deny racial profiling was involved, but the investigation continues into why Robbie Tolan was shot.
And this one from New Orleans. The FBI has gotten involved in the investigation of the fatal shooting of 22-year-old Adoff Grimes (ph) by New Orleans police. He was killed New Year's Day near his grandmother's home. The coroner says he was shot 14 times, 12 times in the back. Police allege Grimes who had a gun permit fired at officers first.
Our focus tonight, California, Texas, Louisiana, what's going on with these police shootings? Criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor B.J. Bernstein will join me tonight as we take a closer look at these disturbing cases.
And speaking of disturbed, the FBI and Seattle police are investigating letters sent to gay bars, and a local newspaper threatening to target them with Ricin poison.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: The nightlife in Seattle's popular Capitol Hill neighborhood thrives, despite an anonymous threat to kill dozens of people who frequent gay bars.
CHRISTOPHER DAWN, BARTENDER: I think initially there was a little bit of fear, I think anger, you know, I just said somebody would be stupid enough to do something like this.
LEMON: Bar workers and owners say the deadly threat came by mail. A letter to 11 Seattle gay bars with the author claiming to be in possession of 67 grams of a deadly toxin Ricin, which he or she will use to, quote, "indiscriminately target" at least five clients of each bar. Bars staff aren't taking any chances putting up bright signs warning "Do Not Leave Drinks Unattended" and "No Drink Left Behind." TIM WAGNER, BAR EMPLOYEE: As an employee of the bar, we're keeping an eye on the drinks. If any drink is left unattended, we will take it away. Another letter sent to the "Alternative Weekly Newspaper." The stranger warned that 55 people will be targeted on a Saturday night in January. But Seattle's gay community is refusing to let the threat change their lives. Organizing a pub crawl in defiance of the hate message.
ALISON LUYING, PUB CRAWL ORGANIZER: The best way that, you know, we could respond to this was uniting together at the neighborhood and community in saying, you know, this is not OK here. We're all going to go out. You know, that this is not a community that you can, you know, make scared.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Author Dan Savage, is the columnist with the stranger's -- one of those newspapers that that letter was sent to, at least one of those letters. But, you know, he has said, and I've heard you say this -- are you taking the threat seriously or you're not? You don't believe that this is a legitimate threat?
DAN SAVAGE, AUTHOR, COLUMNIST: Well, the threat should be taken seriously, and the threat itself is a crime. What I don't believe is that there's someone sitting out there with 67 grams of Ricin was about to attack people. If someone were going to launch an attack like that, they wouldn't announce it in advance. They wouldn't say I'm going to attack you in this way, in this time, with this method before they had done it. Everyone is on their guard now.
LEMON: But nonetheless, you're not saying that people shouldn't be vigilant, correct?
SAVAGE: No, everyone should be vigilant? People -- even prior to this attack, shouldn't leave their drink unattended in a bar. And certainly won't you be vigilant now in trying to find the person who made the threat. The threat itself again is a crime, whether or not the person has any intent on carrying it out.
LEMON: OK. In Seattle, you know, the West Coast, San Francisco, Los Angeles, whatever, pretty usually gay friendly places. Is this surprising to have a threat like this in the community especially I think it's a Capitol Hill neighborhood, which is to, quote, "A gayborhood" in Seattle, correct?
SAVAGE: It is the gayborhood in Seattle. It's where I live. And I frequent a lot of those bars, it's shocking and it's depressing. What's interesting about the letters themselves is they don't -- my reading of them is it's not an attack on the community from outside the community. I believe that this is an embittered gay person who sent these letters.
LEMON: Wait, wait, say again you believe what?
SAVAGE: I believe an embittered gay person sent these letters to these bars. LEMON: Why is that?
SAVAGE: Well, when you read the letters themselves, there's no God language, there's no God hates fags, which is, you know, what the likes of Fred Phelps would throw at gay people. There's no love the sinner, hate the sin, which the likes of Rick Warren would throw at gay people.
LEMON: Embittered about what, though? Why? About what, Dan?
SAVAGE: We don't know. They often say when you look into crimes like these, that the first place you look and say, you know, when a woman is murdered, you look at her partner. And I think the first place you have to look when you get a threat like this is inside the community.
One of the phrases used in the letter was gay community, which is not a phrase that's used frequently by people who are outside the gay community, who hate gay people. A lot of people outside the gay community don't use that phrase. They call us homosexuals; they call us sinners from the outside. There's something about these letters that drip with self-hatred and the sort of furious anger that somebody who's been hurt by gay people.
LEMON: And familiarity.
SAVAGE: Yes, and familiarity. And you know, when somebody set fire to Sarah Palin's church in Alaska, there was finger pointing immediately at the gay community. The gays set fire to Sarah Palin's church. There's no proof of that. No one's ever been caught. And there's no evidence, and I think that that is hate. That sort of speech is hate.
I think it speaks to the maturity of the gay community that we're looking to ourselves also and not just pointing fingers out. Because there's a lot of gay people who speculated that these letters might have come from someone inside the community.
LEMON: All right. Dan Savage, no matter who it is, we wish everyone to be safe in Seattle and hope no one gets hurt or killed.
SAVAGE: Thank you so much.
LEMON: Have a good Saturday night.
SAVAGE: You, too.
LEMON: All right. Also, we want to know what's on your mind tonight. If you want to comment on this story, you can logon to Twitter, to Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com, tell us what you're thinking, and we will get it on the air for you.
Hail to the chief. President Bush commissions what he calls an awesome ship for an awesome man. A look at the USS George H.W. Bush.
Plus, this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Most people would not think that a bailout for the porn industry is needed in order to keep, you know, you in jets and limousines and people like Larry Flynt. You guys can make millions and millions of dollars.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Me in jets? Because Larry Flynt, I have said we're going to drive a hybrid car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, his company has reported to have profits up over $100,000. That's where that question came from. You don't want to miss this. Joe Frances, the guy behind "Girls Gone Wild." That video -- those videos explains why the porn industry needs a bailout. You've got to be kidding me. flagrant (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Smiling faces there. You can call this the ultimate honor for a decorated navy pilot. Former President George H.W. Bush now has an aircraft carrier named after him. He and his family, including President Bush, joined a crowd of about 20,000 for the commissioning ceremony today in Norfolk, Virginia. The $6.2 billion warship is nuclear powered and nearly 1,100 feet long. It's one of the largest in the world.
Winter is taking a toll on wide sections of the country this weekend. This is how things look in Chicago today, where icy conditions forced about 100 flights to be canceled at O'Hare International Airport. One traffic death has been blamed on the snowy roads.
It's really rough in the Pacific Northwest. Heavy snowfall followed by days of warmer temperatures and drenching rains have led to some serious flooding in Washington state. Look at that video. And there's still plenty of snow at higher elevations. This house got hit by one of several avalanches reported there this week. No one thankfully was seriously hurt. CNN's meteorologist Jacqui Jeras in the CNN severe weather center.
In the Midwest, in the northeast, major trouble.
(WEATHER REPORT)
LEMON: Oh boy, Jacqui. Hey, I like the specs, those new?
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Thank you. In fact, they are.
LEMON: They are, yes. All right, that's good. Thank you, Jacqui Jeras. Have a good one.
Also, we want to know what's on your mind tonight. Make sure you logon to Twitter, to Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com. Please tell us what you're thinking. We want you to be part of this conversation here tonight.
A carjacking victim gets creative to try to get his car back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said, I'm going to tell him I got a bunch of hot chicks. You know, as if I'm texting you and we've got some drugs, too. We got cocaine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Did it work? You won't believe this one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: You know, for anyone who has ever had anything stolen, especially people who have ever been the victim of a carjacking, you're going to cheer the outcome of this story. It took a little ingenuity and some fancy texting, in the story now from Kurt Ludlow from our affiliate WBNS in Columbus, Ohio.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KURT LUDLOW, WBNS CORRESPONDENT: His car was at the curb, engine running, while Allan Heuss took a cell phone call from a friend.
ALLAN HEUSS, CARJACKING VICTIM: And some young man came up and open the passenger side door, stuck a gun in my face. We're going to take your car. Would you get out? Yes.
LUDLOW: And in an instant, his BMW was gone. He filed a police report, then met his friends to drown his sorrows. And one of them had a very interesting idea.
HEUSS: He said, you know, I'm going to text these guys. OK. I'm going to blow some smoke their way. He said I'm going to tell them I got a bunch of hot chicks. You know, as if I'm texting you and we've got some drugs too. We got cocaine.
LUDLOW: Hey, old man, we smokin up tonight? Yeah, you wanna? I get off at midnight, so swing by. All right, sugar cake.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We'll have some fun times tonight you thieving.
LUDLOW: The carjackers took the bait. The ruse continued all night.
HEUSS: Very, very early in the morning, they gave him the address where they were, expecting this hot chick to arrive with drugs. And in fact, the Columbus police officers were there.
LUDLOW: The three thieves were caught red handed in Alex's car. He expects to get it out of the impound lot tomorrow. What a story. How he and his friends outsmarted some knuckle-head carjackers.
HEUSS: It's a little seven-hour saga that, you know, where the good guys win. (END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: A police shooting in an Oakland train station leads to violent protests in the streets. And an investigation headed up by the California attorney general's office. Our focus tonight, controversial police shootings across the country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: OK, everyone, welcome back here to the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Don Lemon. We have an update now on a story out of California that's getting a whole lot of national attention. It's about an unarmed man. He was shot by a transit police officer on New Year's Day. Now, California's attorney general is involved. He plans to have a state prosecutor monitor that investigation.
Meantime, the city of Oakland is up in arms over the shooting. Here's CNN's Dan Simon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It was senseless and all caught on camera. Rioters busted windows, set fires and pounced on police cars. One woman tried to defend the violence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We live a life of fear, and we want them to be afraid. We want them to understand we will mobilize. We are a community, and we are a voice.
SIMON: The tension had been building for days, the aftermath of a New Year's Day police shooting in an Oakland subway station that left an unarmed man dead.
The shooting may not have received national attention except it was captured on video by several bystanders with cell phones. The disturbing images appeared to show a man lying facedown with two police officers over him, while a third officer stands up, pulls his gun and fires a shot.
22-year-old Oscar Grant died several hours later. Transit police say he'd been involved in a fight aboard a train and that's why they wanted to arrest him. The victim's family has already hired a lawyer and filed a $25 million death claim against the city.
JOHN BURRIS, GRANT FAMILY ATTORNEY: It is without a doubt the most unconscionable shooting I have seen ever.
SIMON: Some law enforcement experts have speculated the officer intended to reach for his Taser, but accidentally grabbed his gun. But the officer, 27-year-old Johannes Mehserle, on the job for two years, won't agree to be interviewed by investigators or make any public statements under the advice of his lawyer. He has since resigned and also has been the target of multiple death threats.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want justice now.
SIMON: Many in the Oakland community are pressing the district attorney to file criminal charges and march to his office.
DESLEY BROOKS, OAKLAND CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: We are a community that will not tolerate, will not tolerate those who are charged with protecting us, executing our children in broad view for the world.
SIMON: But what started as a peaceful protest turned ugly. Police responded to the violence in riot gear, fired tear gas and arrested more than 100 people.
(on camera): No word when the DA may decide whether or not to file charges against the officer. Meanwhile, people have been dropping off flowers, cards and candles at the subway station where the victim was shot.
Dan Simon, CNN, Oakland, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right. So joining me tonight, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor B.J. Bernstein and then also John Burris. John Burris is the attorney for the Grant family.
John, I want to start with you, tell us about your case right now, your communication with the police department.
JOHN BURRIS, GRANT FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, what we have done first off is we gathered a number of videotapes that have taken place, and we have submitted those to the police for them to review as well. And our view is that this shooting, obviously, is an unconscionable act and what you want to look on the videotape is whether or not this is a second-degree murder type case, or an inbound train mess.
A lot of people speculated that he was reaching for a Taser. That's not evident on the tape itself. What's evident is he reached for a gun. So therefore, criminal charges, from my point of view, should be filed. Now, I have filed a lawsuit against him, seeking wrongful death damages as well as violations of his civil rights.
LEMON: OK. I want to get to B.J. Bernstein. I'd like to ask you, though, how is Oscar Grant doing?
BURRIS: Oscar Grant's family is doing reasonably well...
LEMON: I'm sorry -- the family.
BURRIS: Yes -- reasonably well in the sense that, you know, they're in a lot of pain, a lot of anguish, but what they do not want is the violence that has taken place ostensibly in protesting what has happened. This is a very Christian loving family. They want protests -- peaceful protests, rallies. They want prosecution to take place, but they do not want violence or property destroyed in the name of their son.
LEMON: Yes. You know, when you're talking about all the protests and the rioting that happened -- that's been happening out at Oakland, California since the death of this young man. Here's the thing, B.J. Bernstein, when you look at this videotape and you look at Oakland Police Department and at some of the cases that have been brought against them recently, and I'm looking over a list here of them, where do you this going? The videotape is pretty damning.
B.J. BERNSTEIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The videotape is very disturbing and the one thing that I'm going to be waiting to see is what were in the police reports by all the officers present. You know, this tape that we've been seeing on air has been from somebody's cell phone.
LEMON: Yes.
BERNSTEIN: So, some reports were written before this was made public. What was in those reports? Did some other officers go ahead and start to say and come forward? And that's going to be critical for the city of Oakland as to whether it's one rogue officer or whether the other officers were complicit in what happened.
LEMON: OK. You're a former prosecutor and you've worked, you know, you've worked with the police department cases where you represented people on different sides. But when you look at this video, is there any other way to look at it than this is there's some trouble here? I mean, how might the police department defend themselves when you have two separate tapes showing this officer shooting this man?
BERNSTEIN: Well, Mr. Burris alluded to it. I've been seeing it on some of the blogs talking about the police officer possibly thought it was a Taser, but again, even with a Taser, there's a big difference in the movement used for a Taser and a gun, and firing a weapon. I think that's a weak excuse.
LEMON: It is disturbing to watch this. And thank you very much, Mr. Grant, I mean John Burris, thank you very much. And also can you please send our condolences to the Grant family.
BURRIS: I absolutely will do that.
LEMON: All right. Thank you very much for that. B.J., thanks so much for this. B.J. is going to join us. We're going to talk about much more about other shootings happening and other controversial cases with police officers around the country.
In Texas, a Minor League Baseball player shot by the cops in his own driveway.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did not know it was a police officer. We just thought, you know, who is this guy with his gun and his flashlight?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Why did this happen? Our focus tonight, police shootings.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Hi. Welcome back to the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Don Lemon. Now we go to Houston and the shooting -- the police shooting that wounded Robbie Tolan. He is the son of a former Major League Baseball player, Bobby Tolan, and a Minor League player himself. Here's CNN's Ed Lavandera with the very latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The way Robbie Tolan's family describes it, he and his cousin were just walking up to their home after a late night meal. So why is Tolan now hospitalized, a police officer's bullet lodged in his liver? It's a question sparking allegations of racism in this mostly white Houston suburb of Bellaire
QUANELL X, ACTIVIST: He was a victim of the worst case and the worst kind of racial profiling.
LAVANDERA: Tolan is the son of former Major League Baseball player Bobby Tolan. The 23-year-old spent the year playing with the Washington Nationals minor league team and recently played with the Bay Area Toros. Tolan's cousin said they had no idea the two men approaching them that night were cops.
ANTHONY COOPER, TOLAN'S COUSIN: We did not know it was a police officer. We just thought, you know, who was this guy with this gun and his flashlight?
LAVANDERA: According to police, the officers thought the SUV the pair had just gotten out of was stolen. Relatives say Tolan's parents heard the commotion and came outside. Police acknowledged an altercation took place. Relatives say it involved his mother.
MIKE MORRIS, TOLAN'S UNCLE: The cop just pushed her against the wall and her son was on his back at the time, and he raised up, and asked, what are you doing to my mom, and the officer shot him, while he was on the ground.
LAVANDERA: The car belongs to the Tolans. It wasn't stolen. Police say Robbie Tolan and his cousin were unarmed. As for the officer who shot him, he is white, a 10-year veteran with an excellent record. Police say they're looking into what happened, but deny any kind of racial profiling.
ASST. CHIEF BYRON HOLLOWAY, BELLAIRE, TEXAS POLICE: Any time someone is injured, we take it very seriously, and -- but as far as any allegation of racial profiling, I probably said that's not really going to flow.
LAVANDERA: Robbie Tolan sits in a Houston hospital bed and this son of a once prominent Major League Baseball player finds his own aspiring baseball career in jeopardy.
BOBBY TOLAN, VICTIM'S FATHER: I'm not concerned about his career right now as a baseball player. I'm concerned about my son's health. LAVANDERA (on camera): The officer involved in the shooting has been put on administrative leave while the Bellaire Police Department tries to figure out why this officer thought these two young men had stolen a car. And the District Attorney's office in Houston is also looking into whether charges will be files against the police officer.
Ed Lavandera, CNN, Dallas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right. Joining me to discuss this case -- this case, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor B.J. Bernstein.
OK. When you look at this, high profile because of the dad and also because of what he does, what's the case here? How are police faring with this case?
BERNSTEIN: Well, it's still difficult because the child was unarmed. And how the police got to the -- again, to the situation where they believed that the car was stolen, it turns out the car was not stolen. And what actions, what is it that this young man apparently did that gave the officer reasonable belief that he had to shoot and shoot in such a way that it killed him.
LEMON: When you're trying to prove -- how tough is it to prove or is it tough at all to prove racial profiling in a case like this?
BERNSTEIN: Well, the difficulty here is this is not new. We just spoke about Oakland. We have the situation in New Orleans. We have this. Oakland just last year -- this summer, had this issue, which is why things -- and think back, Sean Bell last year set New York on fire in discussing the issues of race and police officers.
You know, and it's hard for the officers, I realize, because if you look at the statistics, the Pew Center for Research says one in nine young African-Americans 20 to 34 years old are in prison.
So, if you're the police, you're going to say, well, that is statistically the higher number of people who are committing crimes, so therefore, us focusing on these younger people. But the problem is taking it to the level here where you have repeated incidents of violence, and violence and death.
LEMON: Does it make a difference? And I would imagine it would at least if someone is found guilty. I mean, Robbie Tolan is still recovering in a hospital, if he dies, that ups the ante -- when he dies, it ups the ante for the police department.
BERNSTEIN: Absolutely. And again, the situation is going to be what are in the police reports? What was said by the police initially versus what is independently shown later on?
LEMON: All right. B.J. Bernstein, thank you very much. And we're not done with B.J. We're not done with covering this. There are so many -- a number across the country and these aren't just in big cities. They happen all the time in cities all over the country and towns. This one was a deadly police shooting on New Year's Eve in New Orleans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The violence has to stop. My son's death will not be meaningless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Now a family grieves and the FBI is investigating. Our focus on police shootings continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. Tonight, we talk about another police shooting. This one in New Orleans. And it is even more complicated than the other ones. 22-year-old Adolph Grimes was shot and killed by New Orleans police officers. He had just arrived at his grandmother's home after a five-hour drive from Houston early on New Year's Day.
Now, the family wants to know why police officers descended on a young man with no police record. Police Superintendent Warren Riley says Grimes shot at police first when plain-clothed officers surrounded his car. Riley says officers are trained to fire when fired upon, and fire more than one shot. The FBI is now investigating.
Back again, B.J. Bernstein, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor.
OK. I'm going to ask you your thoughts on this case. Police there are saying that he fired first. He did have a right to carry. He had a permit, right to carry. They're saying he fired first. Family members are saying, no way, and that this is a cover-up by police officers.
BERNSTEIN: Exactly. And this is going to be where the investigation and throw in New Orleans to this situation, and it's why probably the FBI is already involved.
LEMON: And when you said throw in New Orleans, I mean, the crime, we have heard so much about crime in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, that has gotten so bad. You know, I don't want you to speculate here. But do you think that police may be a bit touchy and is it warranted in some places? Not that anyone's death is, but...
BERNSTEIN: Right. Again, you know, I think what all of these cases are focusing in on is how crucial for every department to truly train and work with their officers to really judge a situation, because officers are going to be in these situations. There is no doubt about it. That is their job.
And so they do have to be held to a higher level of making sure that they're not stereotyping, that just because you see someone who's young, African-American, he's perhaps dressed in a certain way, that you don't make assumptions.
And that's the difficulty of being a police officer. But it's critical and necessary. And then for the community, it's important for the community, again, to be involved with their police, and to protest and be involved in the process themselves.
LEMON: When you look at, B.J., when you look at this and, you know, no criminal background whatever, you know, with a young person in the car, going to see family members, I mean, your heart goes out. And then you look at the circumstances. Because of this, nine police officers are reassigned after this shooting. Police really are not commenting on the case. Does that say anything about their case? Or is this standard procedure?
BERNSTEIN: That's standard procedure. Not really to play it out in the media. And you have to wait and see what the facts and circumstances are going to be. And people have to remember, we do have to let the court process have a chance to work. That was the problem in Oakland, with the riots. You know, we've learned over the years like, look at the best of what happens when we look at a situation.
For instance in Jena, Louisiana. That was organized protest concerned about racial profiling, concerned about doing things wrong based on race. But responding to it in a way that creates change. And that's what one of the lessons of all of these things have to be.
LEMON: Yes. A young man dead in New Orleans. Also, one in Oakland. And in Texas, still alive, recovering in the hospital, but very, very tragic. Thank you very much for helping us with this. B.J. Bernstein, we appreciate it.
Meantime, Joe Francis, you know, the "Girl's Gone Wild" guy? He speaks out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Do you think people are taking you seriously with this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, I think that people should take it very seriously, and if you read -- you know, if you go on cnn.com and you read, wow, what has created more of a stir than this. Because I think people are getting the point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Why is Joe Francis teaming up with Larry Flynt to ask for a porn bailout? Think I'm kidding? Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Do you know what? Congress is getting another bailout request from the porn industry? That's right, the porn industry. Porn mogul Larry Flynt and "Girls Gone Wild" creator, Joe Francis, want a $5 billion bailout. No kidding, folks.
Francis heads to Washington to make their plea before Congress. Both Flynt and Francis are planning to do it. Flynt and Francis say the porn industry is a vital part of our economy, just like the auto and the financial industries. Flynt has this to say about his plea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY FLYNT, HUSTLER MAGAZINE PUBLISHER: You know, why not, you know? They did it for the automobiles. They did it for the banks. You've got a lot of unhappy people out there that sex is the farthest thing from their mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. Well, just a short time ago, I spoke with Joe Francis of "Girls Gone Wild" about the bailout pitch. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE FRANCIS, "GIRLS GONE WILD" CREATOR: You just have to look at the sheer numbers. I mean, we're talking about a $13 billion a year industry. The numbers are staggering. 90 percent of all searches done on the Internet are for adult content.
LEMON: Then that sounds contradictory. Because if 90 percent have done it, it seems that you guys should be doing well. I'm looking -- I'm doing research on you. It says that you recorded sales in excess of $100 million. You can't survive on that? Larry Flynt $300 million. You can't survive on that?
FRANCIS: We didn't say that we were -- in our industry, we didn't say that it was in dire need of this money or -- or -- or on the edge of collapse. But what the point is, is what's the difference? Why shouldn't every -- why shouldn't we get a bailout. As long as the government's handing out money, billions of dollars -- $700 billion to the finance community and the banking industry and nationalizing that economy.
LEMON: How many people did you lay off this year?
FRANCIS: We laid off -- we didn't lay off anyone...
LEMON: OK.
FRANCIS: ...due to...
LEMON: The auto industry laid off hundreds of people, thousands of people.
FRANCIS: Great.
LEMON: How many -- do you know how many Larry Flynt laid of? Or...
FRANCIS: It isn't about me and Larry Flynt. We could take $5 million and create a lot more jobs than the auto industry.
LEMON: I think for the most part, if you look at the opinion polls that are taken, most people are not happy with those bailouts, but most people say that it's needed in order to keep the American economy vital. FRANCIS: No, no.
LEMON: But hang on. Let me make my point.
FRANCIS: Here's why -- no, no
LEMON: Most people will not think that a bailout for the porn industry is needed in order to keep, you know, you and jets and limousines and people like Larry Flynt. You guys are making millions and millions of dollars.
FRANCIS: Me and jets? Because Larry Flynt and I have said we're going to drive a hybrid car across the nation to Washington. We're not going to take three separate private jets or our private jets to go see Congress.
LEMON: Do you think people are taking you seriously with this?
FRANCIS: You know, I think people should take it very seriously. And if you read -- you know, if you go on cnn.com, and if you read, wow, what has created more of a stir than this. Because I think people are getting the point. People are getting the point, and that is, where does this stop?
LEMON: You're planning of going to Washington, D.C. How soon? And have you spoken to anyone there about going in front of Congress?
FRANCIS: We have been in contact. We're going through the procedures. We still have, Don -- we have to be invited to go. And I look forward to going because -- and if we do get the money, and if you ask if I take it seriously. I take it very seriously, because Larry Flynt and I have businesses and know how to create businesses and jobs and going concerns that work. And we wouldn't just throw money like automotive to something that's inevitably going to collapse anyway.
LEMON: OK. Joe Francis, we'll have to end it there.
FRANCIS: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: I appreciate your time. And we want to tell people that you are in Las Vegas because of --
FRANCIS: I'm at the AVN conference. The Adult Expo here in Las Vegas.
LEMON: There's a porn convention happening in Las Vegas and that's why you're there. Is Larry there?
FRANCIS: Larry, yes, he just got in today.
LEMON: OK. Well, you guys should talk about this, and if there's some developments from other people who are going to go with you, let us know. We appreciate you joining us.
FRANCIS: Thank you very much. LEMON: Thank you, Joe.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Your feedback, and you are weighing in, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. Time now for your feedback on all the stories we've been telling you about.
Here's what scb4vp says, "Wow, porn industry wanting, not needing a bailout. I think I've seen it all.
Abenadiva says, "Thanks for telling the story. Not too many will tell these stories. Nothing will be done, but at least somebody knows." They're talking about the police shootings.
And JohnnieFerrari says, "I knew Oscar Grant and his family. I'm from Oakland. And I just want to say if Oscar was alive, he wouldn't want rioting and violence."
Cityguy2675, "There is never a reason to shoot and kill an unarmed man who is already in police custody."
Thanks for your comments and keep them coming. I'm Don Lemon at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. I'll see you back here tomorrow night, 6:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Make sure you have a good night.
