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Rod Blagojevich Holds Press Conference; Republicans Criticize Obama Economic Plan
Aired January 23, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Staffing and ethics, check. Foreign policy and torture, check. Today, Obama tries to fix the economy.
Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Let's now cut to the change.
First, Obama explained to the American people this morning what the situation is really like, what he reads when he comes to work every morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Each day brings, I think, greater focus on the problems that we're having, not only in terms of job loss but also in terms of some of the instabilities in the financial system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Here's what else happened today you need to know about. Republicans fired back at the president's economic plans. There they are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: You can go through a whole host of issues in this bill that have nothing to do with growing jobs in America and helping the people keep their jobs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And then Obama shot back, directly taking aim at those who are wasting your money.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Some of the reports that we've seen over the last couple of days about companies that have received taxpayer assistance, then going out and renovating bathrooms or offices or in other ways not managing those dollars appropriately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) SANCHEZ (voice-over): Cutting right to the change: the poster boy of the wasteful spending President Obama is referring to, John Thain, former CEO of Merrill Lynch, buying a $35,000 commode, an $87,000 area rug, paying his driver $230,000 a year.
OBAMA: The United States will not torture.
SANCHEZ: But did we? Did the U.S. torture? Where? Who? How?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Barack Obama promised during the campaign that he would like to see this detention camp close.
SANCHEZ: The detention facility at Gitmo shutting down.
Look at this picture. Talk about change. And we're there.
And the first U.S. missile strike in Pakistan under President Obama.
You wanted change. We got it, with your help, on Twitter, MySpace, and more, right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And just as we get ready to finish out the week with the new president of the United States, we're taking you to Illinois.
Any moment now, we're told that the great poet reader of the Midwest will enter this news briefing. That's right. Governor Rod Blagojevich is going to be meeting with reporters once again. Not exactly sure what is on his mind. But obviously it is something he wants to talk about. We are going to dip into him when that happens.
Hello again.
By the way, as we get started, since it is the end of the first week, I want to ask you a question before I bring in all of our guests. And the question is pretty simple, really. It's the end of week one. I'm going to put it on my Twitter board. How did he do?
As a matter of fact, let's write it down. "End of week one, how'd he do?"
There you go. I'm sending it out. Throughout the newscast, we will be getting your responses and sharing it with everybody else.
But before we do anything else, let's start with the big news of the day. And the big news of the day is the economy and the economic stimulus package that the president is now trying to get through.
As you heard, some Republicans aren't happy with it. Some of the Democrats aren't sure. And then there's the question of where the money will be spent.
Joining us now, Patricia Murphy, CitizenJanePolitics. She's been following this all day long.
Look, as this thing stands right now, Murph, on what and how soon will the people's money be spent? Do we have a better idea?
PATRICIA MURPHY, EDITOR, CITIZENJANEPOLITICS.COM: We are starting to get a better idea. But that is really the crux, what and how and when are the problems that the president is running into., not so much with Democrats, but with Republicans.
And it's interesting here. The Democrats have the votes really to pass this. They could ram this down the Republicans' throat. But Obama doesn't want to do that. He wants to negotiate with Republicans. He brought them to the White House today to talk to him.
What they're complaining about, they say this package that is in the House right now is too big and too slow. They say it's spending too much money, and the money won't be stimulative.
(CROSSTALK)
MURPHY: Go ahead.
SANCHEZ: Let me stop you for a minute.
MURPHY: OK.
SANCHEZ: Because we get Boehner. As a matter of fact, here's some sound. This is -- you heard what Boehner said moments ago as I was doing my introduction to you.
Here's what Barack Obama says as a bit of a retort to what the GOP minority leader is saying, that there are maybe too many pet projects. Let's listen up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I recognize that there are still some differences around the table and between the administration and the members of Congress about particular details on the plan.
But what I think unifies this group is recognition that we are experiencing an unprecedented, perhaps, economic crisis that has to be dealt with and dealt with rapidly. And, you know, I have asked Larry Summers to give me a daily economic intelligence briefing so that we are monitoring what's happening and, frankly, the news has not been good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Speaking of news, we're not quite sure exactly what kind of news is going to be coming out of Chicago. But, once again, we want to remind you, those of you who are joining us now, that there's a news conference expected to begin any moment now.
You see it's getting started now from Chicago on Governor Rod Blagojevich. Don't know the news. But they usually promise to be entertaining.
Back to Barack Obama and Patricia Murphy.
He says he recognizes that there are differences. Let me ask you straight out, is Obama going to try and keep -- is the president going to try and keep this bipartisan, even though, look, they have got both houses; they don't have to?
MURPHY: Yes, he is going to try at all costs to keep this bipartisan.
And that's for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's really the crux of his entire candidacy coming into this. He says he wants to change the tone in Washington. Also, he does not want to be put in the position of inheriting this, really, economic mess from George Bush, and then be tagged as a big-spending, big-government liberal. He wants Republicans to come along with him.
So, this is done for two reasons, really to cover himself, but also to get the Republicans in the room. He says he thinks they have good ideas. He doesn't really need their votes really to get it passed, but he needs their votes to make it work and to sell it to the American people.
SANCHEZ: How about the Dems? Are they on board or is he having a little bit of conflict there? I have heard rumblings from Nancy Pelosi, for example.
MURPHY: Well, he's getting a little bit of flak from the left as well. Nancy Pelosi says that the Democrats won the election; they should get to write the bill.
The Democrats, all Democrats in Washington, are not used to compromising with Republicans, especially so soon after an election that they won so resoundingly. So, he's getting flak really from both sides. This will probably pass through pretty easily through the House. Look next week for the Senate vote. There will probably be some fireworks between senators, Democrats, Republicans. Republicans have more power in the Senate. Any one senator could stop this process.
SANCHEZ: Week two, all right.
MURPHY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Patricia Murphy, thanks so much, great job.
MURPHY: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: CitizenJane -- editor of CitizenJanePolitics.com.
All right, when we come back, we're going to tell you about his third day, full day in office, Barack Obama pulling the trigger. That's right. We are learning U.S. missile has hit a part of Pakistan where Osama bin Laden is believed to be hiding. We will have that for you. In fact, bestselling author Ron Suskind is going to join us to make news on this next.
And we're also standing by for that live event that is taking place in Chicago, where Governor Rod Blagojevich is expected to speak. That's going to happen any moment now.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Interesting. We're getting a lot of comments from you already. I posed that question a little while ago. As end of week one, how is he doing?
Let's go to the Twitter board, just pick up a couple of those, while we possibly can.
We have got two of them on the board right there. Don't need to scroll.
"Obama has done his job the fullest potential."
Number two, Janieo says -- she is watching -- "Better than most have at this point and faster. But let me say, keep mindful of the caution he told us to use with expectations."
All right. Will do.
One other thing, Rog, let's dip into the shot we got in Chicago. Rod Blagojevich is about to come out and speak now. Now, I have just been handed this information that I want to share with you.
Rod Blagojevich said recently that the situation that he's going through right now is very difficult. And he compared it to the attack on Pearl Harbor, which is not exactly resonating well with many people. They thought that may not have been a good analogy.
Well, listen to this now. This is -- what I'm going to read you is coming from Chicago Mayor Richard Daley. He says -- quote -- "The disgraced mayor of Illinois" -- "governor of Illinois" -- pardon me -- I misspoke -- "is cuckoo" -- "cuckoo" -- quote. That's what he goes on to say. That's how he has described in this, just before we start this news conference that we're going to be taking in just a little bit from Rod Blagojevich.
Again, as soon as that happens, we will take you to it.
In the meantime, here's what I want you to catch up on. We have been talking a lot about what's been going on over the last couple of days and how fast it's been happening. Some have said fast and furious these first couple of days of the Barack Obama administration.
Well, we want to detail it for you.
And to do that, here's CNN's Jim Acosta.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Less than 100 hours into the job, President Obama is off to the races, signing executive orders at a furious pace.
OBAMA: Guantanamo will be closed no later than one year from now.
ACOSTA: He's broken in his economic team and selected new hot spot envoys for the Middle East and Afghanistan. He's even had an oath of office do-over, after the first one was flubbed at the inaugural.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I was there. Far easier to get tickets for this one.
ACOSTA: Democratic leaders are also sprinting, urging Congress to work quickly on an economic stimulus package.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I don't think we can go fast enough.
ACOSTA: But there are calls to slow down. Government watchdogs have launched the Web site readthestimulus.org, demanding that lawmakers read the plan's fine print. Some Republicans are also asking what's the rush on issues from Guantanamo...
BOEHNER: And do we bring them into our borders? Do we release them back into the battlefield?
ACOSTA: ... to the approval of treasury secretary nominee Tim Geithner.
SEN. MICHAEL B. ENZI (R) WYOMING: In previous years, nominees that had made less serious errors in their taxes than this nominee have been forced to withdraw.
JOE LOCKHART, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY FOR FORMER PRESIDENT WILLIAM J. CLINTON: Right now, they can push anything through. And it looks like they're trying to push everything through.
ACOSTA: Clinton administration press secretary Joe Lockhart says there's good reason for all the urgency.
(on camera): Is there a danger in doing too much too fast?
LOCKHART: I think there's a danger in looking like you don't have a plan. But they have been very deliberate here in setting things up into issue areas. And I think they are able to move them on multiple fronts.
ACOSTA (voice-over): "Mad" magazine captured the frenetic Obama pace with its cover "The First 100 Minutes."
But, as senior Obama adviser David Axelrod told me before the inauguration, there's one thing that won't happen overnight, fixing the economy. DAVID AXELROD, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER: We're talking about years to turn around some really profound economic problems here.
ACOSTA (on camera): Even though Democrats criticized President Bush's Office of Faith Based Initiatives, President Obama has plans to overhaul and expand the program. During the campaign, then candidate Obama insisted he would keep this office and still maintain a healthy separation between church and state.
Jim Acosta, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: So, really, the difference between the Obama foreign policy thus far, as explained to us, and the foreign policy as we knew it under George Bush and Dick Cheney, night and day.
Let's bring in somebody who knows an awful lot about foreign policy, because he's written an awful lot about it. As a matter of fact, he's got a lot of bestselling books, "Way of the World" being one of the last, and a ton of contacts. That's Ron Suskind that you're looking at right now.
Hey, Ron, let me just start you with if you could give me a one- word answer to this, because there was some discussion about this a little while ago in the White House. Did Barack Obama know or order this attack today in Pakistan, in Waziristan, the area where Osama bin Laden is supposed to be?
RON SUSKIND, AUTHOR/JOURNALIST: My guess would be yes.
SANCHEZ: That he did?
SUSKIND: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me let you listen to this now. This is Robert Gibbs being extremely coy with reporters at the White House during his press briefing today. Let's pick that up, Rog.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: And other U.S. officials have confirmed these -- these Predator drone air strikes in Pakistan. What is it about not confirming whether the president was consulted...
(CROSSTALK)
GIBBS: I'm not -- I'm not going to get into these matters.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: ... operational...
GIBBS: I'm not going to get into these matters. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So, it's interesting that they're not talking about exactly what the White House or what the president ordered. But we know that it happened. And you know what this says. Obama talked the other day about having an open hand and a clenched fist. This was the clenched fist today. Are we going to see less of the dove and more of the hard-liner in Barack Obama?
SUSKIND: Well, there's no doubt U.S. power is not diminished. The United States will -- will still remain under Barack Obama the most powerful country in the world. It's about carrots and sticks. Obviously, we're going to get a lot more carrots now. Obama has said that, more emphasis on diplomacy, more in development, more on humanitarian aid. But there's no doubt that that fist is still there.
SANCHEZ: Is it important to have the mix? And I know you talk to a lot of intel guys. Do they get it, and do they think or do they know that this president gets that?
SUSKIND: I think they do. And some of them are actually quite emboldened, encouraged by it, because here's what they know.
They know that the softer stuff, so to speak, humanitarian development, showing consistency in word and deed, it gets us human intelligence, the thing that we are lacking right now.
SANCHEZ: Really?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me stop you right there. You're saying, because of the administration in the past, which some have described as cowboy diplomacy, my way or the highway, has hurt us on a diplomatic front. In other words, people won't talk to us because they don't like us?
SUSKIND: Absolutely. It's not just a matter of saying, let's -- they have got to be encouraged and enthusiastic in their cooperation. Countries around the world, some of them don't like us very much.
The key here, human intelligence has withered during the Bush administration. And that's the precious matter for war, for conflict in the modern age, when small groups of people can carry the destructive power once reserved for nations. Human intelligence are your eyes. That's what we have lost. We have been blind around the world.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you about something. Osama bin Laden, we know he's in that -- or supposedly we know that he's in that Waziristan region, the same region that was apparently hit with a missile today. We are told some 17 people were killed. We still know what the results -- don't know if it's productive, although we're hearing a lot of reports that have not yet been confirmed.
Is this part of Osama bin -- is this part of getting Osama bin Laden, which, by the way, the president had spoken about on his campaign trail?
(CROSSTALK)
SUSKIND: Well, that's interesting. It's seven-plus years since 9/11. We still haven't gotten bin Laden or Zawahri.
Look, friends of mine, folks in South Asia, South Asian leaders...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, Ron, I'm going to -- I really want to hear the answer to that question, but I'm going to stop you for just a moment.
SUSKIND: Yes, you have got to go to Blago.
SANCHEZ: Yes, we got Blago.
All right, let's hear him. Let's take him live.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: ... some of the thinking behind the decision that I made and give you some insights on it.
Let me say that this is not an act of defiance, in fact, just the opposite. But there are huge, big issues at stake with regard to the proceedings starting on Monday, and specifically with regard to the rules and the process that those proceedings provide for.
Let me also say how much I would like to be there on Monday, how eager I am to go to Springfield and confront the charges that are being brought against me, and how determined and eager and impatient I am to be able to call witnesses, so that I can show my innocence, and show that, notwithstanding mistakes and errors in judgments from time to time, most of the things that I have done as governor have been the right things, and have been things that have helped people.
However, as much as I would love to participate in the Senate trial and in the Senate process, under the current rules that the Senate provides, they're not allowing me to participate in that process, to participate in a process that denies fundamental fairness, to fundamental due process, to be part of a process that doesn't allow for calling of witnesses.
And, worse than that, it doesn't allow for me or any citizen to challenge charges that are brought against me, is a fundamental violation of the Constitution. It is a trampling of the Constitution.
Specifically, I'm talking about two rules, Rule 15-F, which, by all intents and purposes, prevents me from calling in witnesses, like presidential Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, from top presidential staffer Valerie Jarrett, from Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr., and a whole series of other witnesses that I would eagerly call to testify under oath to show that I have done nothing inappropriate with regard to the decision to pick a United States senator. Under Rule 15-F, I'm prevented from calling witnesses like that to make that case. But, even if I could call those witnesses, the more onerous rule is Rule 8-B. Rule 8-B essentially says that charges that the House bring in a report that was not cross-examined, not challenged, not confronted, that those very charges cannot be challenged, cannot be contested, cannot be refuted.
In short, you can have all the witnesses you want. It doesn't matter, because that document alone is going to be accepted as fact. That's a gross violation of every constitutional principle that exists. It's a violation of the freedoms we enjoy as Americans. It's a violation of the cornerstones of the principles that we have to protect us as individuals, protect our civil liberties and protect the ability to be able to answer false accusations in a fair way. If they can do this to a governor, they can do this to any citizen in Illinois.
Now, I like old movies and I like old cowboy movies. And I want to explain how these rules work in a more understandable way. There was an old saying in the Old West. There was a cowboy who was charged with stealing a horse in town and some of the other cowboys, especially the guy whose horse was stolen, were very unhappy with that guy.
And one of the cowboys said, let's hang him. And the other cowboys say, hold on. Before we hang him, let's first give him a fair trial. Then we will hang him. Under these rules, I'm not even getting a fair trial. They're just hanging me.
And when they hang me under these rules that prevent due process, they're hanging the 12 million people of Illinois, who twice have elected a governor. Now, they may be for or against me, they may like me or not, but the people of Illinois have every right to expect that the decision they have made when they have chosen a governor, if he or she is going to be removed from office, that the process ought to at least have fundamental fairness and have all the safeguards that our Constitution guarantees to all our citizens.
Under these rules, Rule 15-F and Rule 8-B, under that fact pattern I just gave you, if the cowboy who is charged with stealing a horse was charged with doing that in town, but in fact on the date and time that he apparently stole the horse in town, he was on the ranch with six other cowboys, herding cattle and roping steers, and then he expects that, when his day comes to go to court, he can bring those six cowboys to say it wasn't him because he wasn't in town, he was on the ranch herding cattle, even if he could bring those cowboys in to say that, under these rules, under 8-B, it wouldn't matter.
The complaint that charged him with stealing the horse would convict him, because you can't challenge it, and you can't have a chance to be able to contest it -- again, not fair, in fact, worse, trampling on constitutional rights.
So, the principle of whether I stay in office or not is far, far less important than the broader principles of protecting our Constitution and protecting the rights of individuals, the rights of individuals, accused falsely or not so falsely, to give them a chance to be able to have their day and protect themselves and let the truth decide what that -- what in fact is the truth.
So, I'm here today to call on different people to be helpful in this process. Let me first say that I'm calling on the major newspapers across Illinois, every major newspaper and their editorial boards. And here in Chicago specifically, I'm calling on the "Chicago Tribune" editorial board and the "Chicago Sun-Times" editorial board.
Get involved. Write editorials. And urge the state Senate leadership to change those rules. Give me a chance, as the governor of this state, to be able to put my case on, show my innocence, and show that I have done mostly the right thing for the people of Illinois.
But I can't do it unless the editorial boards weigh in and call on those lawmakers to follow the Constitution. Now, "The Chicago Tribune" has a tradition of having done this. All you got to do is go into the lobby of that "Chicago Tribune" building, and there on the walls emblazed in marble or bronze are quotes from a historic, landmark Supreme Court case called Near vs. Minnesota.
It was a case where politicians in Minnesota and gangsters and mobsters in Minnesota were trying to gag a free press. And Colonel Robert McCormick, the legendary owner of "The Chicago Tribune," saw what that meant to civil liberties and the First Amendment. And he got involved in that case, and, through his crusade, was able to get that case all the way to the United States Supreme Court.
And, in the United States Supreme Court, they ruled that the First Amendment right of free speech is inviolate, that it's protected, and that no politicians or government or gangsters can prevent the right of a newspaper or publishers to print what the -- the facts as they learn the facts.
This is no different. This is just a different amendment, the right of the Sixth Amendment, the right to challenge false accusations and give the citizens the same opportunities that everyone expects in the United States of America.
So, I call on the "Chicago Tribune" editorial board and the "Chicago Sun-Times" editorial board and editorial boards all across the state to look carefully at these two rules, Rule 8-B and Rule 15- F, and weigh in and encourage the state Senate to change those rules, so that I can have a chance to present my case, defend myself, bring witnesses, and be able to let the truth of the matter present itself in a fair way.
And, while I'm at it, I'm calling on the Senate leadership again, Senate President Cullerton and the Senate leadership, to do a couple of simple things, so that we can get this process moving and the truth can come out. Just change those two rules, two simple things.
Allow me the right to be able to challenge the charges. Allow me the right to be able to call witnesses, like Rahm Emanuel, like Valerie Jarrett, like Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. Allow me also to call witnesses, like Governor Jim Doyle in Wisconsin and Governor Kathleen Sebelius in Kansas, or Senators Ted Kennedy and John McCain, who all worked with me on the issue of re-importation of prescription drugs, going to Canada to get cheaper medicines for our senior citizens, so that they can afford their medicines and their groceries, a charge that they're trying to kick me out of office on.
Give me a chance to bring witnesses in like that, so I could explain my case. And I'm certain, if given that opportunity, we will not only show that we have done things right, but I will also show the people of Illinois that I have always been on their side, fighting for them.
Thank you. I will take a couple of questions.
(CROSSTALK)
BLAGOJEVICH: Whoa, whoa, whoa. One at a time.
QUESTION: Governor, don't the people of Illinois have a right to hold you to a higher standard at a criminal trial? I mean, you were arrested by the FBI? You were slapped in handcuffs. You were put in detention. And you're accused, in a lengthy 76-page statement by the federal government, of disgraceful acts that have humiliated the -- the state of Illinois.
On what grounds do you claim that you should be given criminal rights in this legal proceeding, in this political proceeding?
BLAGOJEVICH: All I ask for is the basic fundamental fairness of every citizen in the United States. It's called -- it's called the presumption of innocence.
I have said I'm not guilty of any criminal wrongdoing. And I'm entitled to that in that case. And...
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) ... federal court, but not in the state Senate, perhaps.
BLAGOJEVICH: Well, I believe everyone is entitled to a fair hearing.
And if you're going to undo the will of the people, if a legislature will take away from the people their elected governor, who they elected twice, without giving that governor a chance to challenge the evidence and call witnesses, that's a fundamental violation of the Constitution.
And I would point out, it is a violation of their oath of office. And if I were to participate in that proceeding, then I would violate my oath of office, because I took an oath of office when I swore on a Holy Bible that I would support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the state of Illinois.
And to deny me, as a governor and a citizen, those basic fundamental rights to simply answer charges and bring evidence to show that I didn't do the things they said I did, those are fundamental rights. And it's a scary thing, if they get away with doing this. If they remove me from office with a process like this, and not giving me a right to defend myself and to -- and show the truth, then what kind of an impact will that have on future governors?
This is much bigger than me. If you can remove me from office like this, then you tell me what governor is going to challenge the legislature. Do you honestly think that my successor will challenge them when they try to raise taxes or my successor will challenge them when they want to do certain things that might not be good for the people, but are all about taking care of those lobbyists and special interests in Springfield?
This will have a chilling effect on every governor in the future, because, if you can throw a governor out with mere allegations, and not give him a chance or her a chance to prove those things false, then no governor will be able to take on the General Assembly, the way I have, or any governor ought to be able to do, to get the will of the people enacted.
And let me say one more thing about governors vs. the legislative branch. We're the only ones in that process elected by all the people of the state. Those lawmakers are picked from certain districts, most of whom are unknown to the voters.
They come together in a state capital that's generally away from where most people are. They're surrounded by what I call a political industrial complex of lobbyists and others. And every idea is generally what those lobbyists want.
And it seems to be all too convenient for them to burden working people and middle-class families by making them pay for the operations of government, rather than the other way around.
I took that system on. I challenged that system by giving all of our kids health care, by investing record amounts of money in education, by giving all of our senior citizens free public transportation. And I did it not by raising taxes on people. In fact, I fought all the interests, members of my own party, lobbyists and special interests who support Democrats, from raising taxes on people, and lost a lot of support by downsizing government and forcing spending in other places, so that it's fair to people.
That's what this is all about. The heart and soul of this has been a struggle of me against the system. And...
(CROSSTALK)
BLAGOJEVICH: You cut me off.
Oh, Jay?
Jay?
Jay Vendent (ph)?
JAY VENDENT: Governor, if you feel your Constitutional rights are being violated by all this, why not go to court -- either state court or federal court -- to delay the trial while that is decided?
BLAGOJEVICH: I talked a little bit about some of the law. And I don't want to mislead you.
I'm not, by any means, Ed Jensen or Oliver Wendell Holmes or anybody like that.
Our legal team discusses those sorts of things. And that's still something that's under discussion by them.
QUESTION: Governor, do you want the people to rally around you and come to your aid (INAUDIBLE) citizens of Illinois, what can you tell them (INAUDIBLE) about what the government says you said on the wire tapes?
Isn't that the fundamental issue here?
Other than I'm innocent and I did nothing criminality wrong, what can you tell them about your intent of what was said on those tapes?
BLAGOJEVICH: Well, I've said again -- and I'll repeat again -- I'm not guilty of any criminal wrongdoing. I've done nothing wrong. And I tried very hard to do everything right. And when the truth comes out, I think that will be made clear. And I look forward to my day in court to prove my innocence and I expect to be vindicated.
But I respect that process. And I think you all know and understand that the appropriate thing is to allow that process to take place on a separate track. And it would be inappropriate and wrong of me to comment or talk with any specificity about that.
But again, you guys act as if there isn't something that exists in America -- and it's simple, presumption of innocence.
Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence?
It's a -- it's been nothing but a frenzy to just assume certain allegations are true and then rush me out of office. And I believe, because political figures in Illinois are just waiting to get me out of the way to raise the income tax by either 66 percent or 33 percent during a time of economic depression. There's already a bill in Springfield to raise the sales tax on gas by eight cents a gallon so that the road building contractor community can get a public works bill but do it on the backs of motorists and consumers.
This is the typical kind of thing they do in Springfield. And they want me out of the way to be able to try to do that.
I have done nothing wrong. I look forward to my day in court. But at the same time, if they want to throw me out of office, the least they can do for the people of Illinois who chose me twice is to give me a chance to prove I did nothing wrong and most everything right.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last one. The last one. (CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last one.
QUESTION: You've painted a scenario this morning and you've just painted it again, of almost a conspiracy on the part of Lieutenant Governor Pat Quinn, the Republican and the Democratic leadership, getting together to drive you from office so they can raise the taxes in Illinois.
Is that seriously what you're alleging?
BLAGOJEVICH: I'm saying that if I'm removed from office, there's a whopping huge tax increase coming on the people of Illinois before summer.
QUESTION: But is this an organized (INAUDIBLE) are you saying the staff got together and (INAUDIBLE)?
BLAGOJEVICH: I'm saying what I just said. And...
QUESTION: Well, I am asking you (INAUDIBLE)...
BLAGOJEVICH: I'll give you my personal opinion. And that is that -- and it's based on real life experience. From the moment I became governor six years ago, when I inherited a $5 billion budget deficit, the expectation among Democratic constituency groups, special interests and others, as well as, ironically, some of the business groups -- because they'd rather have people pay more in taxes so they can protect their corporate loopholes.
And I should point out that the average taxpayer in Illinois -- the average individual, middle class person, working person, pays $1,500 in state taxes. The average big corporation pays $151 in state taxes. They don't care if the income tax goes up or the corporate tax goes up, because they shelter their money. They don't -- they've got loopholes and write-offs, so they don't pay any taxes. The burden is always on the middle class family and the little guy, the working guy.
And from the very beginning, I fought those efforts to raise taxes. Now, my view is this -- and it's very interesting. I firmly believe Democrats have been -- many of them have been very straightforward about it -- pushing a 66 percent income tax increase from three to five percent. Mayor Daley publicly supported that. Reverend Meeson's (ph) proposal. Speaker Madigan has publicly urged -- has supported it and has urged me to be for an income tax increase. Senator Cullerton has publicly said he's for an income tax increase.
It's not a conspiracy. They have said it.
Now, with regard to what I said on the radio about the other side -- the Republicans -- unfortunately, I think they want it, too -- not because they're for it. They want the campaign issue. They want to be able to run against the Democrats so they'll wink and nod and they'll keep a couple of votes here to help out. And they'll be able to say they were against it. But it's almost so cynical and yet so real, this is how our government operates. They'd rather have the campaign issue instead of protecting the people. And that's what's coming if I'm removed from office without a fair hearing in the Senate.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).
BLAGOJEVICH: Rule 8-B does not allow me to challenge the charges, period. Rule 15-F does not allow me to call witnesses like Rahm Emanuel and others, who have said that I've done nothing inappropriate. Very simple. It's nothing -- it's just basic fundamental fairness and it's a process.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
Thank you guys.
Thanks, everybody.
Thank you.
SANCHEZ: And there you have it. Governor Blagojevich making a lot of important points in his own defense. He says, look, under these rules, I'm not getting a fair trial, they're just "hanging me" -- is the word he used. "Hanging me," he repeated. And then he said they're hanging the people of Illinois, as well, because they elected me and they're being denied their due process, as well.
He says the reason he held this news conference, apparently, when he got to the point, was he wants the Senate to change a couple of laws. And he's asking that all the newspapers in Chicago start writing editorials to get them to do so.
Let's try and get somebody who -- a good newspaper man who understands that town and understands the politics.
Rick Pearson joining us once again.
What's this all about?
RICK PEARSON, POLITICAL WRITER, "CHICAGO TRIBUNE": Well, this, I think, is the beginning of the end of Rod Blagojevich's 15 minutes as governor. The Senate is not about to change the rules. And, in fact, when Rod Blagojevich he complains that he isn't getting a fair trial or that he isn't getting a chance to subpoena witnesses, he's kind of ignoring a couple of facts here.
As one, this is a political situation. This is not a legal case. This is a political impeachment trial.
And, two, he has as much right to request subpoenaing witnesses as the House prosecutors are in presenting their case. He's just chose not to participate.
SANCHEZ: Rick Pearson, my thanks to you.
Unbelievable watching that thing unfold, as we did.
And as usual, thank you for bringing insight into the story that the whole nation has been following, Rick Pearson, my thanks again.
Let's take a look at this now -- a photo snapped at Guantanamo Bay. Away with the picture of George Bush and in with the picture of Barack Obama. And now it's his problem. That's right.
CNN's Susan Candiotti has just gotten back from GITMO.
The latest news from there and there's a lot of information to share with you.
And, also, Rush Limbaugh talks about me on his show after I talked about him. You'll hear what he had to say. We have it for you.
Stay with us.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
We've got breaking news that's coming to us from our White House correspondent, Dan Lothian.
He's standing by now to fill us in.
What's going on -- Dan?
What you got?
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, CNN can confirm that President Barack Obama is about to sign an executive order that will reverse a Bush era abortion policy.
It's called the Mexico City Policy or otherwise known as the global gag rule. And it was put in place by President Reagan back in 1984. And essentially what it does is prevent or prohibit U.S. money from going to any international family planning group that promotes or provides any kind of information about abortion services.
Again, as I mentioned, it was put in place by Ronald Reagan. It was reversed by President Clinton, but reinstated by George Bush as one of his first executive orders.
Obviously, this is something that family planning groups like Planned Parenthood is embracing and applauding. But conservatives not happy about this. They don't believe that any tax dollars should be used for abortions or any kind of abortion information -- Rick. SANCHEZ: It sounds like a rule that flips every time you get somebody with either a GOP or Dem moniker in front of their name at the White House.
LOTHIAN: That's correct. Yes, indeed.
SANCHEZ: Dan, we thank you so much for that report.
Here's what we're going to do. The big news came across this week had to do an awful lot to do with torture. The word in and of itself -- one president saying we didn't do it, another president saying, guess what, we're not going to do it anymore.
It's controversial, if by no other reason, just those two arguments that I just raised for you. We're going to have Ron Suskind joining us in just a little bit. He's going to be taking us through this.
Stay with us.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back, as usual, at this hour.
I'm Rick Sanchez here in the World Headquarters of CNN.
An important topic this week and that's the topic of torture.
How important is it for the United States to send a message around the world that this is a country that no longer tortures.
And is that admitting that we just did torture with the previous administration?
Well, I asked the question yesterday of one of my guests here on the show.
CNN contributor Frances Townsend was in charge of homeland security. And Barack Obama made his declaration on the air that we wouldn't torture, I asked her if the previous administration did.
Watch this exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Do you believe that under the administration that you were a part of, the United States tortured?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And we're joined now by our guest, Ron Suskind, the award-winning, best-selling author.
Did you buy her answer? SUSKIND: She should take.
SANCHEZ: She said no.
SUSKIND: She should throw that old script away. It's obsolete. The president and the vice president have both said something I reported years ago. They were integrally involved, often daily, on interrogation practices, including waterboarding. By every international standard, that is called torture.
So now we're at a next step, a next stage, which Obama has to wrestle with...
SANCHEZ: But wait. Wait. I need to stop you there, because I think Americans need to come to grips with this. Because there are some people who are listening to you who are saying you know what, maybe there are some people out there who needed to be tortured and there's a lot of good stuff that probably came out of this, Ron Suskind.
I read in your book the chapter about Abu Zubaydah. Abu Zubaydah was a guy -- in case Americans can't remember it -- the Bush administration stood on a podium and said we've caught the chief of operations for all of Al Qaeda. This is a very important bust.
And then they went on to apparently send this guy to one of those prisons in Egypt -- to one of those places where they do do some serious interrogations.
Tell our audience what Abu Zubaydah turned out to be.
SUSKIND: Well, let's very clear. Zubaydah is a guy with a split personality. He was not a head of operations or anything like it. He was more sort of the maitre d'. He booked travel arrangements. He did some recruitment. Clear, very important.
The stuff we got from Zubaydah, almost all of it came from traditional, longstanding interrogation techniques, not from the extraordinary enhanced techniques -- i.e. torture. That's something that folks involved have said.
Beyond that, what's important to note here is that torture doesn't work. If it was a question of doing something that works or not in dealing with these sort of confusions of pragmatism, it's not that. Torture doesn't work. It's something we've learned again and again. And that's why it's outlawed around the world.
SANCHEZ: You're talking to the guys who are talking to Obama.
What are they saying about this?
Because some people look at this and say well, that's one opinion.
Are the guys who are talking to the president of the United States -- I mean the -- you know, the career diplomats, the military guys, the admirals, the generals, are they saying the same thing you just said?
SUSKIND: Absolutely. It's clear for those in the know who've been at this for a long time, torture is not effective. Let me say it again.
If it worked, it would be different. It doesn't work. It doesn't get you things of value.
In terms of Zubaydah, for instance, he told us everything under the sun to make the pain stop. Virtually all of it was nonsense.
It's important because Obama now has a very important job -- essentially what he was elected for -- to restore America's moral authority around the world. That's why he's moving so forcefully so quickly, right now as we speak.
SANCHEZ: Some people are saying he needs to go further. In fact, let me tell you -- let me read to you what they're saying. This is Manfred Nowak. You probably know him. He's the U.N. Official who monitors torture around the world.
He writes -- and I think we've got a graphic we can put up. Listen to what this guy says. He says: "There's no avoiding the fact that this has been torture. The government of the U.S. is required to take all necessary steps to bring George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld before a court."
He's saying that Barack Obama or somebody in his administration should prosecute the former president and the secretary of Defense.
Some people will say that's crazy, we've got too much work to do.
But is there a required process of cleansing that needs to take place before you can move forward?
SUSKIND: Well, there's a lot of people inside the administration who say absolutely. It's about rule of law. We're a nation ruled by laws and not men. And the fact is, much of the world that we're professing now to be ready to lead in a multilateral way says, look, we signed onto the rule of law, you're the leader so now you've got to do the right thing if you want to restore, essentially, that place in leadership with moral authority.
So now we have a problem that essentially the president and the vice president have all but admitted that they were knowledgeable about this thing that we did that is understood to be torture.
So now what do we do?
What does Barack Obama do about this issue of rule of law?
And you can't just say, that was then, this is now, full steam ahead. In a way, Rick, it's like an infection inside of the body politic -- you've got to clean it out if you're going to move forward with added strength, which, frankly, the world is crying out for us to do. SANCHEZ: It's interesting. It's all about perspective and how you want to be seen around the world.
I'll tell you, Ron Suskind, we'll get you back.
Sorry about the Blago interruption there, man.
SUSKIND: Bin Laden to Blago -- the connected age.
SANCHEZ: You know what you got?
You got Blago'd.
SUSKIND: Yes, right. Right. I'm with you.
SANCHEZ: Good stuff.
My appreciation.
SUSKIND: Be well.
SANCHEZ: Angry Bob's take on the inauguration.
What could be -- could he possibly be wild about what's going on in history right now?
Does he -- and, by the way, get a shot of this.
Can you get a shot of this?
I'm going to hold this up. Look at this.
You got this right here?
Am I holding it the -- wait, wait. There you go. More on that when we come back.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
I'm Rick Sanchez.
A lot of comments on that question I asked you earlier in the day -- end of week one, how's he doing so far?
Let's take a look at one of these. This is coming in on Facebook. Sharlin is watching. She says: "Four days in the administration and all I can say is bravo. Thank you for keeping your promises and getting things done and changed quickly."
Some of your comments have been critical. Many have been coming in. Most have not been.
Angry Bob's turn. We talk to Angry Bob here every single week and he's joining us once again.
He's our political satirist.
Let's start with all the balls -- all these galas that they had the other day. The president and the first lady apparently staying up into the night doing all this dancing at these balls.
What's your take on that?
ANGRY BOB, POLITICAL COMEDIAN: I'll tell you something, it was unbelievable. I thought that because of what's going on with the economic collapse that we were going set a good example and not have all these damn balls. They had a million balls. They had more balls than Spaulding.
(LAUGHTER)
ANGRY BOB: And I made that a little less funny, but a lot less dirt -- a lot less dirty.
SANCHEZ: Where did you...
ANGRY BOB: Dirty.
SANCHEZ: Yes. And we thank you for that, man.
Wait, what did you think of Dick Cheney when you saw him come out in that wheelchair?
ANGRY BOB: Well, you know what?
I didn't know what that was about. First they said he strained his back from picking something up. I think it was one of those waterboards he didn't use yet.
(LAUGHTER)
ANGRY BOB: And then -- and then they said, yes, you have to sit in a wheelchair. I think that's a lie. I think he was getting ready for his next job as Dr. Strange Glove.
SANCHEZ: Dr. Strange Glove?
ANGRY BOB: Or Strange Love, Iron Thighs, maybe Topo Gigio.
SANCHEZ: Who's Topo Gigio?
ANGRY BOB: I don't know. It's like a 60-year-old reference that nobody gets except you or me.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Can you believe all the people that were there -- I mean something like two million just down there, where they were trying to see something and they ended up watching the thing on my -- apparently, they didn't even have enough bathrooms, Angry Bob. ANGRY BOB: Let me -- there was a reason why I stayed in Queens. There were three million people and two Port-A-Potties.
(LAUGHTER)
ANGRY BOB: That's crazy. And I'm thinking who came up with that idea -- until I found out that the person running it was ex-FEMA Director Michael Brown. Hey, doing a heck of a job again, Brownie.
SANCHEZ: Brownie.
ANGRY BOB: Just cross your legs.
SANCHEZ: You had to go there.
Carlos Mencia, a good friend of mine, he was on the other day here and he and I were talking about what happened with Justice John Roberts. And he kind of messed it up. And it was the only gig he had to have.
And Mencia was convinced, you don't do something like that without note cards or something.
Did you watch that thing?
ANGRY BOB: You know what?
Let me tell you something, that was his only job of the day. He screwed it up. I think he had more important things on his mind, to him, like that lunch he was going to have with Alito, Scalia and Thomas at Denny's. And I think Saclio -- Alito always -- he always orders the moon over Miami. So it's...
SANCHEZ: Miami.
Is that a reference to me?
That's my hometown, you know.
ANGRY BOB: Of course.
SANCHEZ: Hey, Obama really has gone fast and furious, hasn't he?
I mean people are looking at this and we don't know if all the policies are going to work, but, boy, he sure is enacting a whole bunch of them.
ANGRY BOB: It's amazing. Two days -- he's signing things, he's having meetings. I'm going to tell you something. You look at the past eight years and it looks like the drunken frat boys were in charge of the class and finally the professor has shown up to take control. It looks beautiful.
SANCHEZ: And this -- this from a man with his very own bobble head.
My thanks to you, Angry Bob.
Love it, by the way.
We'll see you again.
ANGRY BOB: Can I tell people where they can get one?
SANCHEZ: We'll do that next Friday.
ANGRY BOB: All right. No problem.
Thank you.
SANCHEZ: You've got it.
All right, here we go.
(VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Just what in the world has gotten into these people?
South Koreans with a beef with police -- and they're taking it to the streets. It's a story we didn't get to show you this week, but we will, because every Friday we do something called What You Missed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: It's amazing the response we get every time we put Angry Bob on the air. Folks love him. He's a strange looking guy, but he's effective. They love him in Minnesota: "Rick, can we have him over Senator Franken, though?"
All right, my thanks to you.
Hey, there's something else I want to share with you now. Every Friday we do this -- all the stuff that we didn't get a chance to show you during the week because we got interrupted by something like the Blagojevich news conference -- well, we put it together. We accumulate it. And it's put together by producer Dave Johnson.
Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Friday already?
We had a whole world of news to bring you in my one little hour of CNN.
I seem to recall that one story dominated the news this week, but I can't put my finger on it. Oh, well, it will come to me.
I didn't get a chance to show you this. It's not your everyday highway accident. More than 40 cars and trucks and 18-wheelers piled up. Two people died. Happened Monday on I-70 in Frederick, Maryland. South Korea, protesters and police -- here come the water cannons. People are angry at what they say was excessive force used to convict squatters from a condemned building. Six people died in a fire during that eviction.
Microsoft Windows are closing for 5,000 employees. That's 5 percent of the people who work for the house that Gates built.
Why?
Computer sales dropping.
I didn't tell you about Gaza this week. A cease-fire seems to be holding. But our man there says doctors are seeing lots of close range gunshot wounds. They believe Hamas gunmen are shooting people they think are spies.
And this crash scene looks bad, but it could have been worse. Two people on board walked away after putting their experimental plane down in a bean field. Call this experiment failed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We're happy to bring it to you.
By the way, a couple of more comments that we'll share with you as we go out.
This one saying: "Blago rocks" -- as in Governor Blagojevich. "Him and Angry Bob need their own show on CNN right after yours."
I'll talk to the suits.
And the one after that says they don't like Angry Bob: "Rick, not everyone loves Angry Bob. He's pretty annoying."
All right, there's another one: "Efficient, Harvard graduate style leadership -- mostly good job. This coming in from I don't know who.
And here's one on the question we asked about Barack Obama at the beginning of this show.
We asked you, after the first week, what's your assessment?
How is he doing?
Here's one that's pretty much in keeping with much of what we've rcvd: "He has changed the world by inspiring people to change themselves. Great job. How can I help, Mr. President?"
Well, that seems to be the question that he's been asking of people.
And finally, let's take you over here to MySpace now. And we'll finish off with this one: "Hey, Rick, I thought we did away with torture. Then why would you show Blago today?"
Sometimes we asked ourselves that, as well. But it is news. We brought it to you. And, at the same time, it's also pretty good TV, isn't it?
Thanks so much for being with us.
I'm Rick Sanchez. We'll see you Monday.
Here's Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM".
