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Barack Obama vs. Rush Limbaugh; Portland Mayor Under Fire
Aired January 26, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): And after repudiating the Bush/Cheney policy on torture last week, will President Obama go even further? Will he, should he, prosecute them for war crimes? As one UN investigator is recommending he do. Manfred Nowak of the United Nations joins me live.
Cutting to the change. Rush Limbaugh says he wants Obama to fail. The president calls him out, telling Republicans you can follow Rush or you can follow me.
Mayor Sam Adams of Portland, Oregon, now admitting he had a relationship with intern Beau Breedlove.
SAM ADAMS, MAYOR OF PORTLAND, OREGON: Our sexual relationship occurred after he was 18. Still inappropriate.
SANCHEZ: But he's refusing to resign.
And it's now revealed that former White House evangelical adviser Ted Haggard didn't just have an improper relationship with a male prostitute but, also, according to his own church, with a young male volunteer.
What he says, what you say during this daily national conversation where we cut to the change now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everyone. I'm Rick Sanchez.
We said we're going to cut to the change, so let's do that right here, right from jump street. The one thing Americans are interested in is jobs. It's the one thing that Barack Obama was talking about today. He talked about a plan to create a million jobs. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Over the last few days, we've learned that Microsoft, Intel, United Airlines, Home Depot, Sprint Nextel and Caterpillar are each cutting thousands of jobs.
These are not just numbers on a page. As with the millions of jobs lost in 2008, these are working men and women whose families have been disrupted and whose dreams have been put on hold. We owe it to each of them and to every single American to act with a sense of urgency and common purpose.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Patricia Murphy of CitizenJanePolitics has been following this story. She is joining us right now to pick us up on it.
What's he talking about? What's the actual plan? Because it's one thing to say you're going to come up with jobs. It's quite another to actually have a plan.
PATRICIA MURPHY, EDITOR, CITIZENJANEPOLITICS.COM: Right.
Well, what he's talking about right there are the jobs that he says will be created by his economic stimulus plan. He didn't come out with a specific jobs program today, but what his message is, is to Republicans to say, you have been a little resistant to my stimulus plan; you need to get behind me.
So, he's saying right now that, when he says we need to act with a common purpose, that's a message to Republicans. This is going to be voted on in the House tomorrow and it will come up for a Senate vote later. He's saying, you need to get on board. Jobs are in that package. You need to vote for my package.
SANCHEZ: The other thing the president did today is, he played the role of the anti-Bush once again, another Bush policy that he's basically saying we no longer need to be a part of. This time, it has to do with gas emissions, telling states, look, you want to set your own gas emissions, go ahead and do so, just the opposite of what Bush said they should do, right?
MURPHY: That's exactly right. What he's done today is say that the EPA can reconsider their choice last year to deny California the right to set its own emissions standards.
George Bush set some relatively strict standards. California's are tougher. The EPA said no, the Bush standard supersedes your standards. The feds are in charge. Today, Obama says, that's not right. EPA, go ahead and consider what California has to say on this.
SANCHEZ: Is this going to be part of a big environmental push on the part of this president that we're hearing about for the first time in the last couple days?
MURPHY: It is. And really something he said today is the theme of it. He says that we are not going to deny facts; we are going to be led by them.
The Bush administration took a lot of heat for putting politics ahead of environmental policy. Obama is saying with this step and many more that we will hear about in the future, it's a new era for environmental and economic and energy policy, and we will see a lot more of that later on. SANCHEZ: You know, it almost sounds like if there was another Kyoto and if it had been this president, as opposed to the other president, the United States probably would have ratified, probably would have signed that deal.
Let me talk to you about Rush Limbaugh. Rush Limbaugh, as we all know by now, we have talked about it on this particular show, said he wants Barack Obama to fail. He went on to say that it was his policies that he really wanted him to fail on. But, nonetheless, those were his exact words. That is a direct quote: "I want him to fail."
The president just Friday decided that he was going to shoot back at Mr. Limbaugh. I think we have got that, that we can put it up for the viewers to read. Here's what the president said about Rush Limbaugh. And it seems to be more of a message aimed at Republicans than it is aimed at Rush Limbaugh: "You can't just listen to Rush Limbaugh and get things done."
It seems to me, Murph, that what he's doing here is, he's putting Republicans in really a tough spot. If they bail on Rush and say, you're right, Mr. President, that was irresponsible of Rush Limbaugh to say that, they lose the hard-core Republican followers who love Rush Limbaugh. If they go the other way and back Rush, then they can come off as obstructionists, agreeing with a guy who is saying he wants the president to fail. They're in a bit of a pickle, aren't they?
MURPHY: They are in a real pickle. And Rush Limbaugh, as you know, has millions of listeners and he has always been a very loud voice in the conservative community.
And what Obama has said is, do you want to be with Rush or do you want to be with progress? We heard, very interesting, John Boehner, the House Republican leader, over the weekend, he was asked this question, do you support Barack Obama? And he said, very different from Rush Limbaugh, the country needs Barack Obama to succeed.
And, so, he at least, for one Republican, one very important Republican, is not agreeing with Rush Limbaugh on this.
SANCHEZ: It's almost like it's a Machiavellian ploy on this president's part. And he seems to be playing them, to a certain respect. We will watch and see how this thing unfolds. You get a feeling there will be scores going back and forth like a ping pong match over the next four years on this.
Hey, Murph, thanks so much.
MURPHY: Thanks.
SANCHEZ: Patricia Murphy, CitizenJanePolitics.com.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: ... then Governor Paterson and Governor Schwarzenegger and governors all around America, including Governor Palin, could be susceptible to legislatures who want to remove governors without giving them a chance to prove their innocence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: The impeachment trial of Blago is now under way. And so is the media blitz, the likes of which we have rarely seen in this country, from a governor, no less.
And then one homosexual affair, shame on him, but now his former church is apologizing for yet another. Wait until you hear the price that they, his church, is paying for evangelical Pastor Ted Haggard's sins.
And we want to hear from you on this one, so weigh in. You can do so on Twitter, on Facebook and on MySpace.
Stay with us. We're going to be coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Gandhi, Mandela, King, Blago?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I kid you not. I'm referring of course to Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich. And his impeachment trial opens today. He is comparing himself to some of humankind's best-known martyrs. This is a full-blown charm offensive by a governor with a Fonzie haircut who was caught on tape allegedly trying to sell a U.S. Senate seat, allegedly shaking down a kid's charity hospital, and using language so salty, both LBJ and Richard Nixon would have been embarrassed.
First, though, I want you to see Blago doing the rounds. Here, he's talking about his December 9 arrest. This is on the federal corruption charges.
Take this, if you would, Dan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAGOJEVICH: The day unfolded, and I had a whole bunch of thoughts, of course, my children and my wife. And then I thought about Mandela, Dr. King, Gandhi, and tried to put some perspective in all of this. And that's what I'm doing now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: And, then, just for good measure, Blago seems to imply that his impeachment trial is something akin to political crucifixion.
That impeachment trial began in Springfield early this afternoon with Blagojevich boycotting it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS FITZGERALD, ILLINOIS CHIEF JUSTICE: This is a solemn and serious business that we are about to engage in. Both you and I have taken an oath to do justice, in essence, to be fair.
BLAGOJEVICH: It's preordained and the fix is in to remove a governor elected (INAUDIBLE) by the people. (INAUDIBLE) not allow that governor a chance to bring witnesses in to prove his innocence. It's the most basic, fundamental constitutional rights of our citizens.
And if the senators in Illinois and the lawmakers in Illinois can do that to a sitting governor, imagine what they can do to average, ordinary citizens.
If they establish a precedent like that in Illinois, then Governor Paterson and Governor Schwarzenegger and governors all around America, including Governor Palin, could be susceptible to legislatures who want to remove governors without giving them a chance to prove their innocence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And of course what would a charm offensive be if it didn't include a stop at "The View"?
Here's Blagojevich now questioned about the vulgar language that was used by himself and his wife, by the way, and revealed by federal wiretaps.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOY BEHAR, CO-HOST "THE VIEW": But on some of the tapes, you and your wife are potty mouths. I mean, not that I have anything against that.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because you're a potty mouth, because you can be a potty mouth.
BEHAR: I mean, what's up with that? Do you talk like that all the time?
BLAGOJEVICH: Let me explain something. Look, had I known...
BEHAR: Watch the expletives, because, you know, this is live.
BLAGOJEVICH: Yes, but I heard you say something. And I said you almost sounded like me on those tapes just a little while ago.
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST "THE VIEW": Oh, several times in my -- in my career, yes. I could give you lessons.
(LAUGHTER)
BLAGOJEVICH: Well, look, had I known somebody was listening, I wouldn't have used language like that. And -- and I will say that it's not something that, you know, I'm proud of.
However, in fairness to my wife, they picked up a word or two that she may have said, I take responsibility for that. I think she's been around me so long that maybe she's picked up some of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And we depend on you to give us a lot of the feedback that we talk about on this newscast.
So, let's go to MySpace first, this one coming in just a moment ago, the topics here being Blagojevich and Rush.
First: "I can't believe that Blagojevich's legal team lets him speak. I would slap a gag on him. He's just digging himself in deeper and deeper. He's hilarious."
Now, on to Rush Limbaugh. Somebody watching our newscast right now says: "The Rush mentality is why the Republicans lost. If they stay with Rush, they will be old and washed up like him in no time."
Not just a martyr, but gallant as well. The Blago road show pulls up tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE." He's going to take your phone calls and he's going to answer your questions, by the way -- "LARRY KING LIVE" tonight at 9:00 Eastern on CNN.
Citigroup has just received tens of billions of your tax dollars, right, your money, to bail them out. So, what exactly are they doing with it? Are you ready for this? They're spending $50 million of it, $50 million of it, on a plane for 12 of their executives. That's all it seats, 12 people. This is no ordinary plane. And if you're angry about this, it shouldn't be ordinary either. Wait until you hear the details.
Stay with us. I will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. Welcome back.
Let's get a little social media in here. Let's get your reaction to what we're talking -- you're way ahead of us on this one. Robert, let's go to the Twitter board, if we can.
"Ha ha, Rick. What is Citigroup doing with our money? Probably wasting it, like the rest of the banks."
In fact, let me go a little further down. Now, look at this one. "And they wonder why they're running out of money, regarding the plane." Let's go across to MySpace. No, this is Facebook. Pardon me.
"Citigroup is spending $50 million of our money on a plane? Did they learn nothing from what the automaker executives went through when they just flew to Washington on their planes? How did they think they could ever get away with this?"
Well, you're ahead of me. You want to know. Let's talk about this. This is something else to take note of on this day. And the word here probably to use is tone-deaf. However, this is not about music. It's that rare ability to read the mood of the country, and then do exactly the opposite of what they seem to be feeling or saying.
This usually doesn't happen to people who Twitter, by the way, or who blog or keep up with the social media. But maybe that's my own bias when it comes to this. Here's the point. At a time when tens of thousands of Americans are losing their jobs and when those same Americans are having to bail out huge corporations for the good of the whole, what did we learn today? That Citigroup, the bank that's gotten $45 billion in government aid, $45 billion, is moving forward on buying a new corporate jet.
"The New York Post" reports that the jet costs $50 million, seats 12 people. That's it, 12. The leather is said to be extremely plush, as you might imagine, and the plane is one of the fastest in the world. It can go about 6,000 miles without refueling. And it tops out at 559 miles an hour.
Asked about the plane, Citigroup says this. "For security reasons, we cannot comment. Executives are encouraged to fly commercial whenever possible to reduce expenses. And over the past eight years, Citi has reduced the number of aircraft by two-thirds."
Now, if this represents a reduction, one wonders what they do when they splurge, just a question. Tell me what you think at CNN.com/ricksanchez.
When we come back, look at this. There are huge protests over this very thing. This is in Europe, though, not in the U.S. The world is angry about this economic mess that we're in. And they're blaming a whole bunch of people.
Oh, and did you hear about Iceland? Their entire economy and government has collapsed, did so this morning. Richard Quest is live. He's at the World Economic Forum. It's taking place in Switzerland. There he is, his smiling face, his passionate explanation -- when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I want to start by showing you some video.
These are protests that were taking place today in Reykjavik. Take a look at this. This is people taking to the streets. They are, to say the very least, angry about what's going on in their country. The government collapsed this morning, after essentially the economy had already collapsed.
Their bank had bought into the bungling scheme, for lack of a better word, that was taking place with the housing mess all over the world. And they are paying for it dearly. And this is how the people are showing their lack of appreciation for what's going on over there.
And, by the way, this is not just in Iceland. There are places all over the world, parts of Eastern Europe, where people are angry as well. Is this coming to a boil?
Richard Quest is joining us now. He has been covering the World Economic Summit today in Davos, Switzerland.
Let's start with Iceland. Can you put into perspective for us what happened there? And could the same thing happen in other European countries?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It couldn't happen as bad. What happened in Iceland was really very simple.
The Icelandic authorities and their government and their banks decided to offer higher interest rates. Put it bluntly, Rick, just about everybody and their mother and brother was investing in Iceland, Icelandic banks, getting a higher rate of return.
Now, you know that old saying, if it sounds too good, if it looks too good, well, it is too good. The crisis comes along. Subprime comes along. The housing crisis comes along, and Icelandic banks go belly-up.
Just to put this in perspective, local authorities, local counsel, city councils, reputable, even the police authority in London, lots of authorities had their money with banks in Iceland.
For the poor Icelandic people, it literally meant collapse of the economy and now, of course, collapse of the government. The situation in Iceland is dire and desperate.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you about this -- this summit that you're covering.
A lot of times -- I have been to these -- you cover these things because they have to have one every year, not necessarily because they're important. This one this year at this time, it is important. And I'm wondering what the Obama impact has been on it thus far, if there is any. The United States has a new president. Is he having an influence?
QUEST: Oh, oh, well, what do you think? The Obama impact is huge. It's monumental. They shifted the date of this thing because of the inauguration.
Oh, it's absolutely extraordinary. And, in fact, we believe that Valerie Jarrett is coming, but which other members of the administration? We had thought, we had wondered whether Joe Biden, the vice president, would come. He's not. We wondered whether Timothy Geithner would be coming. Larry Summers, who's usually a regular here at Davos, he is not coming.
But they are, if you like, the big players everybody wants to know, wants to hear from. So, whichever representative, and be it Democrat or Republican member of Congress who comes here, people will be wanting to hear from them. They are the big players here.
SANCHEZ: In other words, as the U.S. economy goes, the rest of the world's economy goes? So, will they be pressuring the United States, our soon-to-be secretary of treasury, for example, to do something monetarily?
QUEST: I think that they are going to be looking just for answers. The point of the World Economic Forum is, it brings leaders of business, government, politicians, pundits, journos like myself, anybody who can get through the front door, basically.
And we get into this hothouse environment and discuss the big issues. Now, in the past, it has just been -- the tone has been one of grand parties, glitz, glamour.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: ... razzamatazz.
What many of us are now saying and what the chief of the forum said is a new tone will be here. I will tell you one thing, though, Rick. And I am going to be trying to find out. And I will be back with you on Friday to tell you how many. I have invited myself back, whether you like it or not.
(LAUGHTER)
QUEST: I will tell you, I'm going to find out how many CEOs, how many people here at Davos are prepared to say, "Sorry."
SANCHEZ: Yes, that's an interesting question.
Hey, before I let you go, and I like this. Let's do this every day or close to it. I know your show is now going to be ending at 3:00. You're there, so maybe we can kind of latch on and get some information out of you.
I think, as an American, what I would like to know and what a lot of Americans would like to know is, we kind of get a sense of how we're going through this crisis. How are Europeans going through this crisis? Is the pictures that we got out of -- that we showed out of Iceland moments ago, is that reflective of the mood there? How angry are people?
QUEST: Oh. I mean, in terms of countries overall that are badly affected, I would say the U.K., Britain, is probably going to be the worst affected. The job losses there will be monumental. From peak to trough on economic growth, it will be amongst the worst of all. The United States has this vast stimulus package that Congress is looking into. Germany's got a stimulus package. France, Spain, Britain, just about anybody and everybody is doing it. But let there be no doubt. What the -- what your viewers in the U.S. need to understand is, it is just as bad, if not worse, elsewhere.
SANCHEZ: Richard Quest, as usual, doing a yeoman's work there for us.
Hey, we're glad you're there. We will look forward to having a conversation with you again tomorrow, all right?
QUEST: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Thanks, Richard.
Here's the question. Will the guy on the left investigate the guy on the right for war crimes? Now, here's why I ask this. The U.N. says yes. And they go on to say, if he doesn't, our country, the United States, would be violating a treaty signed by Ronald Reagan -- an exclusive interview with the U.N. investigator on torture, that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right.
A couple social media things we're going to share with you real quick. We do have an exclusive interview coming up right now with a U.N. official. I told you about that.
But let's go ahead and involve you in this newscast as well. Let's go with MySpace first. This is interesting. This is on the comments we made moments ago about Citibank.
"Is anyone really surprised that Citibank bought a plane? Nothing seems to shock me anymore when it comes to those greedy people, or do they even qualify as people anymore?"
And, by the way, look at the figure there. You see that, Robert? All the folks who watch this newscast, and then go to MySpace, have a theme going today, and it's all "South Park" characters. So, they're all taking on different "South Park" characters.
And now, again, you're ahead of me. Go to the Twitter. Flip the camera around, Robert. Look at this.
"Whether Obama accuses Bush or not, someone will. I believe that Bush will certainly be tried for the torture thing." That's one comment.
Then there's one under it that says, "Bush and Cheney are going to latch on to their presidential immunity to protect them for their reckless behavior in office" -- two comments on what we're about to talk about right now. And this is why. We're joined by Manfred Nowak. He is the United Nations special investigator. He's the foremost expert on torture around the world. And he's good enough to join us now.
If the picture looks a little strange, it's because we're getting him from across the pond, as they say.
Now here's the reason we're talking to him. Last Friday, we filed a report here. And we had learned about this comment that he had made and we thought it was particularly important.
Let's put that up on the screen, if we've got it. Meanwhile, I'm going to read it to you: "This government is" -- and this is what he said: "The government of the United States is required to take all necessary steps to bring George W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld before a court."
This isn't being said by just anyone. This is being said, again, by Mr. Nowak, who is the United Nations special investigator on torture -- which is specific enough and important enough for us to have him on to talk about this.
Now, Mr. Nowak, thanks so much for being with us.
MANFRED NOWAK, U.N. SPECIAL REPRESENTATIVE ON TORTURE: Thanks for having me.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you the first question about the specifics of torture. You make a comment about this regarding the United States' George Bush.
Do you have specifics that you can share with us on the incidents of torture -- what, who, where, sir?
NOWAK: Yes, of course. We got a report at the United Nations that we published -- a report on the situation of Guantanamo detainees. And we found that the (INAUDIBLE) that have been subjected to various forms of torture and forms of mistreatment, including exposure to extreme temperatures, isolation for a long time, sleep deprivation, etc. and that these findings that we reached were later confirmed (INAUDIBLE) also (INAUDIBLE) by high level (INAUDIBLE).
SANCHEZ: So you are convinced -- let me just stop you there. You're convinced that there have been incidents of torture and that there's enough evidence that they could be proven in a court of law, if necessary.
Let me ask you another question. And while I do that -- because we're getting a little bit of problem with the audio. If you could speak just a little slower, if you would, sir, I think that will make it a little easier to understand you.
Ronald Reagan, president of the United States, signed the international treaty on torture.
Would Barack Obama be in violation of that treaty if he doesn't do as you say and investigate Mr. Bush and Mr. Rumsfeld?
NOWAK: Article 4 of the U.N. (INAUDIBLE) against torture (INAUDIBLE) requires all states (INAUDIBLE) to make torture a criminal offense (INAUDIBLE) penalties and also to investigate all cases of torture and (INAUDIBLE). That is the requirement under the (INAUDIBLE).
Now, of course, we have to look at each specific case. But in the case of Mr. Rumsfeld, we have all the evidence that he has explicitly authorized these forms of interrogation techniques that we found (AUDIO GAP).
SANCHEZ: Let's do this, Mr. Nowak, because we're having a little bit of a problem understanding you. And it's not your fault.
I'm trying to catch it, but it seems like I'm catching every other word.
We're going to try and reschedule this and see if we can just get you on a better contact, if we can. If we can do it before the end of this newscast, we will. If not, we'll try to reschedule this for tomorrow, because it's an important conversation that obviously needs to be heard by a whole lot of people.
My thanks again to Manfred Nowak for the valiant effort.
By the way, I should say -- I should mention to you this is important, as well. We have tried throughout the day to reach a representative from the former president's administration. We have been, thus far, unable to do so. And certainly, if anyone in the administration makes a comment on this, as we continue these series of interviews, we will certainly share their perspective, as well.
President Barack Obama not the only one Rush Limbaugh is ranting about. He's also talking about me on his show. He told his viewers that he's mad I reported on him because we know each other. You'll hear what he has to say for yourself when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We're kind of hell bent on completing this interview, so let's go ahead and do it.
Manfred Nowak is standing by now.
We've got him on the phone now.
Important questions in this exclusive interview that I want to ask him.
Let's see if we can get a response from him now on that last question I asked. This is a treaty that was signed by President Ronald Reagan.
Would Barack Obama be in violation of that treaty if he doesn't go ahead and prosecute members of the past administration, including perhaps the president, on this principle?
Mr. Nowak, are you there?
We're ready to hear your answer.
NOWAK: Yes, I'm there. It is true that the United Nations Convention Against Torture requires every state party to make torture a crime under domestic law, with appropriate penalties, and to prosecute every person -- to investigate every case of torture and then to bring the perpetrators to justice. Perpetrators might be the persons who directly applied torture to a detainee, but also those who ordered torture or who condoned torture.
SANCHEZ: So what happens if the Obama administration says, look, we've got too many -- much bigger fish to fry, we've got bigger problems in this country than to deal with whatever my -- the past administration did -- we're not going to do it, we're not going to get involved in that, we're going to leave it alone?
Is he violating any laws, any principles?
What would happen then?
NOWAK: I mean, I would say, the first obligation is to really investigate -- have an independent investigation about what happened during this eight years of the so-called war against terror.
And then there are various options...
SANCHEZ: Who?
The United States?
But who would have that investigation, the United States, its Congress...
NOWAK: Oh, it would be...
SANCHEZ: Or would it be an international board?
NOWAK: It is the United States of America. How they do it is up to them. It can be a Congressional investigation. It can be a special investigator. There are various ways and means to find out the truth.
And the next step is then to see what kind of consequences. One is, for instance, that the victims of torture have a right to reparations that is as important than to look into the individual perpetrators and to bring them to justice.
But all these are requirements or obligations under the United Nations Convention Against Torture.
SANCHEZ: You keep coming back to the word requirements and obligations.
If there are requirements and obligations and they are ignored by the Obama administration, you, as the investigator of torture around the world, as one of the foremost authorities on torture around the world, what will you do?
Where will you take this?
NOWAK: Well, I will remind the United States of America of its obligations. And I will try to convince them that they should live up to these obligations. And President Obama has made it very clear that he wants a change. And that means, also, that he wishes to comply with international human rights obligations.
SANCHEZ: If what you are saying is true, by the way, does the United Nations War Crimes Tribunal not also have a responsibility to investigate and prosecute U.S. officials?
NOWAK: No, because the United States has not ratified the statute of the International Criminal Court. And that's why the International Criminal Court is not competent unless U.S. citizens are found to have tortured or committed other -- and these are really serious crimes against humanity or war crimes -- in another country that has ratified the statute of the ICC.
So in this case, when we are talking about Guantanamo Bay, this is under United States jurisdiction and the ICC is not competent. It is up to the domestic authorities to investigate and, if they find enough evidence of torture, to also prosecute.
SANCHEZ: Once again, this is an exclusive interview with Manfred Nowak, one of the foremost experts on torture around the world. One final question, sir.
Why are President Bush and Rumsfeld singled out?
NOWAK: I have not singled out.
SANCHEZ: Why not Cheney?
Why not Alberto Gonzalez?
Why not...
NOWAK: No, no. I...
SANCHEZ: Go ahead.
NOWAK: I have not singled out President Bush. I only have said the U.S. has an obligation to investigate. I think first and foremost, to look at the individuals who have tortured where you have evidence.
But then you have to look into who ordered this. And we have clear evidence -- and in our report we sent to the United Nations, we made it clear that former Defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, clearly authorized torture methods. And he was told at that time by Alberto Mora, the leading counsel of the Navy, Mr. Secretary, what you are actually ordering here amounts to torture. So there we have the clear evidence that Mr. Rumsfeld knew what he was doing, but, nevertheless, he ordered torture. And that's why there is strong evidence.
I have not said anything about President Bush and others. Of course, Alberto Gonzalez also condoned it by -- because from his department, there were various memoranda which actually undermined the absolute prohibition of torture by defining torture in a very, very narrow sense, which was not in accordance with the definition of torture within the United Nations convention.
So there are more. But that is up to the United States prosecution -- investigation authorities and, finally, the U.S. courts to find out to what extent they have enough evidence to actually convict any direct torturer or those who ordered or condoned torture.
SANCHEZ: Well -- but we're making news here, because I just heard you, on the record, say that there does seem to be enough evidence to be able to make a case against Donald Rumsfeld specifically.
Manfred Nowak, U.N. Special investigator, foremost expert on torture around the word, my thanks to you, sir, for taking time to talk to us.
NOWAK: Thanks very much.
Have a nice day.
SANCHEZ: When we come back, we're going to be talking about Rush Limbaugh's comments, the response from the president of the United States, what he said and what it's meant.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back.
We kind of mix it up here. We're trying to make news -- talk to newsmakers and talk to you at the same time. We've got about 20,000 people who follow us on Facebook and MySpace. And on MySpace, they've got a little something going. It's a theme on "South Park." Everybody is taking a character. There's the shot today.
This is Rach. Rach is watching our newscast. She's interested. And she has this to say: "Rush -- referring to Rush Limbaugh -- "don't mess with our Rick."
Hey, that's kind of nice -- like I need defenders.
All right. This is what we're talking about. Something else to take note of right now. It is about Rush Limbaugh -- who I happen to know, by the way. But as a journalist, that can't possibly stop me from reporting on him, right? So last week when he told his listeners that he wants Obama to fail, I told you about it and carefully put it in context by letting you hear his position twice.
Apparently, it wasn't enough for Rush. He's not happy. This is what he said about me on his show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM RUSHLIMBAUGH.COM)
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Rick Sanchez -- who I know and who I thought was professional -- but Rick Sanchez obviously is not a professional journalist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There you go. He then goes on to lambaste not just me -- now, I want to be fair -- the whole rest of the media who reported on him. Limbaugh points out -- this is his main point, this is his conjecture, that when he said: "I want him to fail," what he meant was that he wanted liberalism to fail, not that he wants Obama and the country to fail. He wants his context explained -- which is exactly what I did, by the way, on the air the first time I talked about it here.
Watch it for yourself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I want to be fair, so here's the context, all right?
He asks himself: "What is unfair about my saying I hope liberalism fails? Liberalism is our problem. Liberalism is what's gotten us dangerously close to the precipice here."
And then he goes on to say this. This is a quote: "I would be honored if the drive-by media headlined me all day long. Limbaugh, 'I hope Obama fails.' Somebody's got to say it."
There you go. That's as it was reported that day.
Now we've asked Mr. Limbaugh repeatedly to join me on this program and describe his position for himself. But he hasn't returned our calls.
So Rush, let me get this straight. I know you're going to hear this. So you asked the media to play your quote saying: "I hope Obama fails" and that's what I did. You asked for context, which I provided -- twice. And I asked my staff to reach out to you and invite you to be on this show and you didn't respond.
And you're upset, because when the audience -- when Americans hear you say I want Obama to fail, they really think you want Obama to fail?
If that's not what you meant, then why did you not say what you meant? Those are, after all, your words and their reaction.
Enough said.
By the way, if you agree with Rush or me or otherwise, you can hit us on my Web site.
It's at CNN.com/ricksanchez.
His influence among Christian Evangelicals was unquestionable. His decision to engage in a gay affair was -- and he paid for it dearly.
So why is Ted Haggard's sex life back in the news?
An investigative reporter from Colorado shares his revelations and a phone conversation between Haggard and his alleged lover, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I don't have a chance to read them all, but I'm reading them now during the break.
If you get a chance, you've got to go to Twitter.com/ricksanchez and read some of the responds that are coming in on Rush Limbaugh -- both sides, by the way. But they're -- but they're fun to read. I mean, there's a lot of interesting perspectives. Smart responses there.
But let's move on with some of the other stuff we promised that we'd bring you today.
A 45-year-old mayor of Portland is apologizing today for lying about his relationship with what appears to be an underage intern. This is the video. Some are now asking him to resign. And the intern's name, by the way, Bo Breedlove, says that he doesn't feel like he was taken advantage of and it didn't become a sexual relationship until after he turned 18.
They met when he was 17. At the time, the mayor was in his early 40s.
And this is what the mayor had to say today when he was asked about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR SAM ADAMS, PORTLAND, OREGON: I want to apologize to Portlanders for those mistakes. In the past, I characterized my relationship with Bo Breedlove as one being purely non-sexual. And that's not true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: By the way, I misspoke. That response from the mayor was not from today. It was from a few days ago. Nonetheless, the attorney general's office there is now investigating. And a lot of people are saying, look, they want him to resign.
All sides of this equation -- some are saying, well, we need more details. We're going to continue to look into this story.
By the way, here's another one we're looking into -- the Ted Haggard story is back in the news again today. And the reason is that there may have been yet another improper relationship, this time with a very young church volunteer, not a male prostitute.
There is a documentary on HBO that's going to be coming out Thursday night. It's called "The Trials of Ted Haggard".
I should remind you, by the way, that Time Warner is a parent company of both CNN and HBO.
Joining us now is Tak Landrock. He's an investigative reporter at KRDO. He's been working on this story. He's joining us now by beeper -- or what we call beeper, which means he's on the phone.
You have done a series of interviews, for the last couple of years now, with people inside New Life Church. The pastor there is Brady Boyd.
Is he admitting that this relationship took place in his church?
And has he been compensating the young man for it?
TAK LANDROCK, KRDO-TV: Yes, Rick. Actually it happened during Ted Haggard's -- Ted Haggard's era at New Life Church. Brady Boyd was made aware of this after Haggard left and that Haggard did have an inappropriate relationship with this young man. And New Life Church has admitted that.
Also, Brady Boyd has admitted that he did give this young man financial aid. It is a six figure deal, Rick.
SANCHEZ: I'm wondering, how old was this young man when this was taking place?
Was he a minor?
Could he have been a minor?
LANDROCK: He was not a minor at the time. He was in his early '20s, Rick. Then, you know, New Life Church has said that this might have been consensual. I talked to the victim. I've spoken to this victim for almost two years. And I can tell you, from his words, this was not consensual.
SANCHEZ: As a matter of fact, we've got a little bit of the audio clip that you took. You did an interview with both him, the young man -- and you've done interviews with members of the church.
Let's listen first to what Haggard specifically told you when you asked him about this.
Let's pick this up.
Let's go ahead and play that, guys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, COURTESY KRDO TV)
TED HAGGARD, PASTOR: Sometime, somewhere, some reporter will ultimately get to me and they'll say, what about (EXPLETIVE LANGUAGE). And I will say what (EXPLETIVE LANGUAGE) said was true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Wow!
LANDROCK: Rick...
SANCHEZ: That's a...
LANDROCK: ...really (INAUDIBLE)...
SANCHEZ: So he's confirmed -- so the viewers get what we just -- what they just listened to there -- he's confirming to you that when this becomes public, he's letting them know it's true?
LANDROCK: Well, let me clarify that sound bite that you just aired, Rick. That -- that actually was a conversation between our victim and Ted Haggard in July of 2007. The young man was very frustrated with New Life Church. And, you know, this is a point where he was about to threaten New Life with a legal lawsuit. So he recorded this conversation with Mr. Haggard. And that's what Mr. Haggard told him on the phone.
SANCHEZ: Tak Landrock, our thanks to you for taking the time to take us through this unbelievable story, it just seems like.
And, by the way, is there a possibility there may be others?
I heard you as I was watching a report that you were filing with your own station -- that he may not be the only one?
LANDROCK: That's correct, Rick. We have -- you know, New Life Church has confirmed that there were other victims. We actually have a specific number and we're going to release that later this week.
SANCHEZ: Well, we'll be talking to you again, then.
My thanks to you, Tak Landrock...
LANDROCK: Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: ...of KRDO.
When we come back, we'll be telling you what's going on inside not only Blago's world, but Nixon's world. In fact, we'll put the two together for you Huh?
We'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Trying to get Blago to do a: "Let me make this perfectly clear."
Who is that?
That would be Richard Nixon.
This is Rod Blagojevich.
And here's "The Fix."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D.L. HUGHLEY, CNN ANCHOR: As everybody knows, Barack Obama's inauguration brought records crowds to D.C. Something like 1.5 million people were on the National Mall.
But where did all those people stay?
We sent our new correspondent and old friend, Loni Love to investigate.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LONI LOVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm here in the nation's capital to cover the inauguration of America's first African-American president. You guys, he's going to be right there. And I've got here a whole three days early. So now I've got to find a hotel room.
(LAUGHTER)
LOVE: Hi handsome, gentleman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good afternoon.
LOVE: I need a room for the inauguration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I'm sorry. We're all booked.
LOVE: I need a room for the inauguration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry. We've been sold out for the inauguration for four months.
LOVE: What room are you in?
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: Eight twenty-six. Knock three times.
LOVE: I'm here working. I need a room. Give me a room.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have the reservation with that?
LOVE: Yes. Winfrey, Oprah.
Larry, it's Loni.
Open up.
KING: Oh, baby.
LOVE: Hey, (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He does a fabulous Nixon impression. Do it for us.
(CROSSTALK)
BLAGOJEVICH: Who said that?
BEHAR: Somebody told me. Come on.
(LAUGHTER)
BLAGOJEVICH: Well, no, I don't...
BEHAR: Just say: "I am not a crook."
Do it.
BLAGOJEVICH: No. No this...
(LAUGHTER)
BLAGOJEVICH: I'm not going to go there.
BEHAR: Come on.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Come on.
(APPLAUSE)
BEHAR: Do it like this: "I am not a crook!"
Come on.
(APPLAUSE)
BLAGOJEVICH: I'm not going to do that. But let me make this perfectly clear...
(LAUGHTER) BLAGOJEVICH: Let me make this perfectly clear -- I didn't do anything wrong, I'm not guilty of any criminal wrongdoing. All I asked for is a chance to be able to prove any innocence. And in the state senate, if they let me bring a case and bring witnesses, I could prove my case.
(CROSSTALK)
SHERRI SHEPHERD, CO-HOST "THE VIEW": Well, Governor Blagojevich, you said it on "The View".
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Look at the way she's messing with his hair, like it's -- you know.
That voice needs to be deeper.
All right, here we go.
Let's finish out with you. MySpace first: "Hey, Rick, I can make you a South Parker, too. Give a while and I'll e-mail it to you on MySpace. Thanx for the love, man."
There you go.
And there's another MySpace character. That's the theme, for those of you joining us late, on all our MySpace followers today. One more. Listen to this one: "What's wrong with politicians, Blago, corruption, Larry Craig, sex scandal, now the Portland mayor? Who will be next?"
We ask, as well.
That's it for us.
Thanks so much for being with us.
Here's Wolf Blitzer "THE SITUATION ROOM".
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Rick.
