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Obama Makes Hard Sell on Stimulus Package; Blagojevich Blues
Aired January 28, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Rick Sanchez. Let's cut to the change.
The president is hard at work on a hard sell on a stimulus package. Today, he warned, we don't have a moment to spare.
Cut to the change two, note to generals from the new commander in chief: Make plans right now to leave Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Cutting to the change.
The stimulus check is growing, and growing, and growing. Is all of it really necessary?
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will launch a sweeping effort to root out waste, inefficiency and unnecessary spending in our government.
SANCHEZ: We look for pork.
Dozens of young men are disappearing from Minneapolis and other U.S. cities, all Somali Americans. Are they being recruited by the Al- Shabaab terror group to attack Americans? The FBI is all over it, investigating the possibility, a story every American needs to see.
President Obama wants the files on all remaining Gitmo detainees. What? Nobody can find the files? How do we know which detainees are dangerous? Uh-oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because he used to say to me, you know what, Grant (ph), you can become a man of God and you can have a little bit of fun on the side.
SANCHEZ: And, oh, no, not another one. Another young man, another church member alleges he was sexually involved with Reverend Ted Haggard, evangelical adviser to the Bush administration?
Your national conversation on the air and on the Web, where America tunes in as we cut to the change.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: All right, let's cut to the change, first of all, by telling you what the president's been doing. He's been meeting with CEOs of key companies in the United States, trying to convince them of the urgency of getting the stimulus package approved. Speaking of CEOs, many of them are all over the world. Davos, Switzerland, is where Richard Quest is going to be joining us from in just a little bit. He's going to be telling us how the CEOs are responding to Mr. Obama's plan there.
But, first, let's go to Patricia Murphy, CitizenJanePolitics.com .
It looks like what the president's trying to do is kind of appease both sides here, the Democrats and the Republicans. The Democrats are saying, look, too many tax cuts. The GOP, the Republicans, are saying there's too much pork in this package.
Was there any ground gained by either side today?
PATRICIA MURPHY, EDITOR, CITIZENJANEPOLITICS.COM: Well, it looks like right now the Republicans are digging in their heels. It looks like he may get about five to 15 members of the Republican Caucus to vote for this, which is not the resounding bipartisan success he wanted.
We're also starting to hear that some Democrats have started to complain that this bill doesn't have either enough infrastructure spending, -- we're hearing that from some liberals -- or it has too much spending. We're hearing that from the Blue Dog Democrats. Those are those really conservative Democrats, Southern Democrats, many of whom delivered for Obama in their home states, Virginia, North Carolina, Louisiana.
They are really begging off of this package. So, he's trying to thread a very, very thin needle here.
SANCHEZ: All right, stay with us here, folks, because I understand we're going to be going to John Boehner here any moment now.
And John Boehner, like Nancy Pelosi about 45 minutes ago, is going to be explaining from his perspective what's wrong with the stimulus package, or maybe what's right with it. We have been hearing in the past from John Boehner that there's too much pork in this thing.
Were they any more specific, Murph, today with what they mean by too much pork?
MURPHY: Well, it's becoming very clear that pork is just in the eye of the beholder.
Democrats defend this spending very, very strongly. They say that if you look at some of the complaints from the Republicans, the USDA headquarter building in Washington, for example, the Republicans have raised that as wasteful spending. The Democrats say those are going to be jobs for contractors and construction workers.
You can go through this bill. I actually encourage people to read it. It's 647 pages, but you can get through it. Project after project after project, tons and tons of spending, Democrats defend it. Republicans attack it. And Obama has to walk the middle and try and get this passed.
It will pass. But he wants a strong, strong support. And that's going to be the tough part today.
SANCHEZ: All right. We have got some tape coming in now. This is the president today when he was meeting with some of those CEOs. He also met with senators, both Republicans and Democrats.
By the way, one of the biggest things that's happening right now in the entire world is in Davos, Switzerland. That is where probably one of the most important economic summits in decades is taking place. Richard Quest is there. He's going to be joining us in just a little bit.
In the meantime, I get a feeling that part of the reason this thing, Murph, is so important is because the president may not get a redo on this thing. I mean, this is his chance to show the American people, to show both Republicans and Democrats and to show the business community that we have got to get this done. Whether he's right or wrong, this is his time, his moment, as he says.
MURPHY: That's exactly right. It's his moment. It's also the moment for the economy. It's very unclear how much longer the economy can hold on without an infusion of spending and tax cuts.
But, again, there's just debate, how do you do it? When do you do it? I will say that Obama is picking up some support, but we heard from some of those business leaders today it's not a resounding guarantee. And when you hear from members of Congress, because this looks like the biggest, fastest train leaving the station, they are larding it up with some of their pet projects.
SANCHEZ: Murph, I'm going to stop you for just a minute. I understand part of the debate is taking place right now.
Let's do this. Let's dip into that real quick, see if they're talking about the stimulus plan. Let's do that, Dan.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... support of the amendment of my North Carolina colleague Mr. Kissell would apply to the Department of Homeland Security purchasing rules similar to those required of the Defense Department under the Berry Amendment requiring DHS to purchase clothing and other textile products grown, reprocessed, or produced.
SANCHEZ: They're talking about this.
Hey, Murph, before we let you go, look, here's what I have been reading in the last couple of days in places like "The Washington Post" and "The Wall Street Journal," the concern that the problem is so big, and that so much money has to be thrown at this, our money, as Americans, that, by the time we're all done, we're going to be nationalizing a lot of the things that we have always tried to keep as a part of free trade in our government.
How big a concern is that? And what are you hearing from the administration about that concern? MURPHY: It's a very big concern. There is a very fine line that they're trying to walk between infusing banks in particular -- they need this capital -- infusing them with money. But at what point have you basically bought those banks outright?
There are some reports that we have actually spent more on some of these banks trying to rescue them than they're even worth. So, does the U.S. government own them in effect? That really changes the nature of our entire financial system. That's not a debate that we fully had. A lot of members of Congress are saying we're throwing money at the system, but we need to step back and figure out what we're really doing long term that's going to either be good or bad for our financial system.
SANCHEZ: I'm going to let you go.
Here's John Boehner talking about the stimulus package.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: We're continuing to try to work with President Obama to get an economic rescue package signed into law as quickly as possible, but one that will work. And when I say work, one that will help create jobs in America and help preserve jobs in America.
The bill that's on the floor of the House as we speak we don't think will work and, frankly, are disappointed in the product that we see, a lot of wasteful spending that won't create jobs and won't help preserve jobs in America.
We think there's a better way. Our fast-acting tax relief that we'll be offering here soon really will reduce tax rates on the American people, reduce taxes on small businesses, and get our economy moving, and really will create jobs and preserve jobs in America.
We've just done an analysis of our proposal and found that our proposal will create 6. 2 million new jobs in America. That's twice as many as the -- the bill that's on the floor now, at about half the price of the bill that's on the floor now.
Dave Camp and the staff of the Ways and Means Committee worked all night to develop this. We really do think this is a better way, and now we've got the proof.
And the proof isn't just from numbers that we've crunched. This comes from a model by the president's own nominee to head the Council of Economic Advisers and Vice President Biden's chief economic expert.
And so we do have a plan and good ideas that will help preserve jobs in America and help create new jobs.
And to talk more about that, Eric Cantor.
REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), HOUSE MINORITY WHIP: Thank you, Leader. Without a question, the House Republicans are still working very hard to try and get this stimulus bill right. Our message to the president, our message to the speaker has been, will be the economy needs a stimulus.
Often we're hearing discussions about many nice, laudable programs in the House Democrat bill, but we need to distinguish between what is relief, what is a safety net, and what is stimulus.
And if we are really committed to reviving this economy, we've got to have a stimulus bill that preserves the jobs we have and that creates new ones.
And as Leader Boehner said and as Ranking Member Camp will talk about, our plan has now -- it has been substantiated that it creates twice as many jobs as what the Democrats' plan will do. Again, a stimulus bill should do just that.
Earlier today, I was told that Alice Rivlin, a former economic expert in the Clinton administration, even said that the Democrat plan has a lot of great long-term investment programs but is short on short-term stimulus, is short on the ability to create jobs.
The plan that the Republican -- House Republican working group put together is very focused on creating jobs by providing tax relief to families and small businesses, entrepreneurs, and the self- employed, because, after all, that's where 70 percent of the jobs in this country are created.
SANCHEZ: All right, let's dip out of this and listen to what Amy Murphy's going to give us on this. Look, we -- pardon -- Patricia Murphy.
Sorry about that, Patricia.
What they're saying is, whatever we pass has to be something that stimulates the economy and not a hockey ring in Poughkeepsie or anything of that ilk.
Now, what's interesting about this, and sometimes the viewers key in on this stuff before anybody else does, it has to be up to Barack Obama, the president, to say that's what we're going to do. We're going to prioritize stimulating the economy.
Look at this question that comes in from Beth. She's watching our newscast right now. And she asks a very relevant question. This is on our Twitter board, guys. "How is Obama going to be able to cut the pork without a line-item veto?"
Can he do it?
MURPHY: He basically cannot do it. He cannot specifically go into a bill and change the bill and pull out all of the pork.
There are two things he can do. He can ask members of Congress not to put pork in there. And he can shame them into not putting pork in there. He says he's going to have all of these projects on a Web site, so that people can see where the money's being spent. And he did get in touch with house Democrats and ask them to take out the funding for the Mall and the funding for contraceptives.
But that took a lot of political capital for him to just get in there and do something very small. That was symbolically very important. But he doesn't have a lot of tools at his disposal.
SANCHEZ: This one is coming in from my MySpace as we talk about the economy with what we're hearing now from both Democrats, the Republicans, and the president.
"Bush tried a stimulus package. It didn't work. I want change, not more of the same. Everyone praises Obama's intelligence, but he's just rushing a stimulus plan through Congress which no one is sure will work, just like Bush. Where is the change?"
What do you make of that comment, Murph?
MURPHY: I think that's the exact problem that members of Congress are wrestling with right now.
They will vote for this if they thinks it is going to work. Nobody knows if it's going to work. Economists are making recommendations from all sides. They're getting an earful from their constituents. Everybody wants the economy to get out of this crisis, but they just don't know what to do.
We do know, however, there are more problems down the road. We understand from the Department of Treasury there are waves of additional problems coming forward. They may have to throw more money at the banks. They may have to do more spending.
So, Obama is just trying to get his coalition together to at least get this single step passed. They don't know if it's going to work. They know they may have to come back to Congress in a couple of weeks or a couple of months. So, the viewers have keyed into that, really.
SANCHEZ: Let's do this now. Let's take you live via satellite to Davos, Switzerland. Richard Quest is standing by there.
Richard, you have probably had a chance to talk, if not some of the richest guys in the world, but certainly some of the most powerful business leaders in the world. What are they saying? What are you hearing from them about this tussle going on in the United States about what makes a good stimulus package?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm glad you asked me, Rick, because I was talking today with probably one of the -- well, two of the most powerful, one great economist, Joseph Stiglitz, formerly of the World Bank, and secondly George Soros. Now, you have heard of George Soros. He's a massive investor. He's made billions.
Both of them believe that the stimulus package, although it's necessary, is not sufficient. And many of them criticize the nature of that stimulus package. They believe, for instance, all right, the Republicans want more tax cuts. But tax cuts happened last February, and that didn't get things started again.
So, nobody's criticizing that something is being done, Rick. What they're criticizing is the way in which it's being done.
BLITZER: What do they want? I mean, what's missing in -- how much money can you give to these investment banks before they say, it's enough?
QUEST: You're missing the point here. This is not about just bailing them out willy-nilly. This is about structural reform.
And, please, anyone who's now starting to yawn at this point, this is what the real problem is. It's about compensation on Wall Street. It's about greed. It's about avarice.
SANCHEZ: Got it.
QUEST: It's about shifting of mind-set.
And to that extent, Rick, yes, by -- look, think of it this way. The fire is raging. And, yes, you put it out with whatever hose that you have. But don't necessarily think it's the best one at any given moment.
SANCHEZ: It's interesting, because almost -- it's almost like what I hear you saying is, many around the world are upset at the United States for allowing some people to nefariously abuse the economic rules or sidestep them altogether. Is that what I'm hearing?
QUEST: You have a wonderful phrase, I believe, in the U.S., asleep at the switch. That is what people are saying.
And I'm afraid here tonight in Davos, Americans had to hear a couple of unpleasant home truths. And one of them came particularly from the prime minister of Russia, Vladimir Putin, who you will know used to be the president of Russia. And he basically called it a perfect storm.
He referred to the fact that the Americans came to Davos talking about their sparkling economy. And tonight and this week and this year, they're now seeing the wreck and the ruin that can only be called a crisis. I can get you the exact translation of what Mr. Putin was saying.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: That's OK, because you have piqued my curiosity on something now. And my producer is going to be yelling at me in a minute because he told me to wrap this thing up.
But if that's the case, if what you say is true, Richard, then do those people you're talking to have more confidence that Obama can be less asleep at the switch than perhaps George Bush was?
QUEST: I'm not going to make a political statement. That's not my job.
What I will say is that they couldn't have less confidence than they had in the previous administration. Take that however you want, Rick. The fact is, they do know -- I mean, just look at the vast amount of energy that has come out of this White House in a matter of a week and a few days.
With that in mind, they are clearly believing -- what I do think they think, if you want my honest opinion, what they think is...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
QUEST: ... is they cannot understand why the U.S. Congress is taking so long to help put this fire out.
It seems to a lot of people, possibly those I have spoken to, that, you know, maybe a little more urgency. But that -- that is a political decision. And here in Davos, they're more concerned with economics, not politics.
SANCHEZ: And that's economic coverage.
Richard Quest in Davos with a world or global view, and Patricia Murphy in Washington, D.C., with a domestic view, my thanks to both of you, and you, our viewer, as well.
In fact, as we wrap, let me go to this one comment. This is coming in now on Facebook. "We need both an instant stimulus and something that allows our economy to grow in the long term. Why don't we just kill two birds with one stone?"
Sounds a lot like Richard's diatribe just moments ago.
Our thanks to all of you once again.
President Obama wants to know who's left in Gitmo. Here's the problem. There are no files, no cases, no paperwork.
And an exclusive interview we're going to have with a former military prosecutor -- you are not going to believe what he has to say about this.
Governor Rod Blagojevich, too busy to attend his own impeachment hearing, but not too busy to talk to TV cameras. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ROD BLAGOJEVICH (D), ILLINOIS: I would like them to call every one of those witnesses in, everybody who had conversations with me about the decisions that are in question. Every one of those tapes should be there at the impeachment trial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And are young Somali men disappearing from U.S. cities to come back and attack us here in the United States? That's what the FBI is working on as we speak.
We're back in two.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN CULLERTON, PRESIDENT, ILLINOIS STATE SENATE: ... does not prevent the governor from calling witnesses who would voluntarily testify on his behalf, especially himself. So, I think it's helpful to remind ourselves of these rules and how they apply to the fairness of this trial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back.
All right, that's the president of the Senate in Illinois explaining how the rules are not stacked against Rod Blagojevich, as he had said. This is interesting. Rod Blagojevich chose not to represent himself, not to be at these impeachment proceedings. But he is responding through the media. Here he is now responding to that comment this morning.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BLAGOJEVICH: If you want me to call him directly, I will, whatever is the best thing. It's -- I'm just a little bit...
LON MONK, LOBBYIST: I think it's better if you do it.
BLAGOJEVICH: OK.
MONK: It's better if you do it, just from a pressure point of view.
BLAGOJEVICH: Yes. Good. I will call him.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right, that's one of the wiretapped conversations that you heard in Rod Blagojevich's indictment, one of the secret conversations that were recorded, or recorded secretly, I should say.
All right, let's go to Rick Pearson with "The Chicago Tribune." He's good enough to join us.
A lot of us all over the country heard some of those yesterday. And we're trying to figure out what he was talking about and who he was talking about.
So, he says in there, and I think the viewers may have heard it with a quick pass, but I will bring it back up for them again. It says pressuring someone. Who's he pressuring? And why is he pressuring them, according to what may be alleged?
RICK PEARSON, POLITICAL REPORTER, "THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE": According to what the federal charges allege, they're trying to pressure a member of the horseracing industry to provide a $100,000 donation to the governor before the end of last year, when new ethics laws took place, trying to get that money in exchange for the governor's signature on a bill that would take some casino gaming revenue and give that to the horseracing industry. SANCHEZ: All right, listen, let's be clear about this, OK? There's nothing wrong with a politician trying to get money in his campaign for -- to finance his campaign, period.
What could be wrong here is if you have got a quid pro quo, if you say give me money for my campaign and, in exchange, blah, blah, blah. Are we hearing a blah, blah, blah here?
PEARSON: That's the real issue. I think what a lot of these senators who have been waiting a long time to hear from these hundreds of hours of covert recordings that the FBI made, I think some of them were looking for that kind of explosive, you know, you give me money, I will sign the bill.
That wasn't there. But certainly you have a lot of veteran politicians around who know how the game is played. And certainly when you hear those series of four tapes, you know, that's certainly where they think that the line was crossed.
SANCHEZ: Yes, it's always about a wink and a nod. But let's see if we can read more into this second one. This is the second wiretapped secretly recorded conversation. Take this, Dan.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BLAGOJEVICH: Yes. Good. I will call him and say, yes, and we want to do an event downstate.
MONK: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
BLAGOJEVICH: ... that we want to do it, and hope to do this. We can get together and start picking some dates to do a bill signing, right?
MONK: OK. So, what are the chances based on that conversation with you yesterday that this gets done next week?
BLAGOJEVICH: You know, they're good.
MONK: OK.
He's -- I'm telling you, he's going to be good for it. I got in his face.
BLAGOJEVICH: OK. Well, I feel -- I feel like that somebody else is holding him back.
MONK: No.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Want to do this downstate and a bill signing. He's going to be good for it.
PEARSON: Right, the bill signing ceremony. SANCHEZ: What's he talking about?
PEARSON: He's talking about the bill signing ceremony where he would sign the bill. And there's also the assurance that the horseracing official, a Chicago area racetrack owner, is good for providing that donation.
But you also heard at the end the governor apparently questioning whether somebody has gotten to him. And, of course, we have had any number of close associates to the governor who say they are now cooperating in the federal investigation.
SANCHEZ: A lot of people are going to listen to this stuff and say , boy, it sounds like shady business. However, it's not shady business until a jury of your peers decides it's really shady business. So, you have got to come to court. You have got to bring witnesses. And they have to raise their right hand and swear that what they're about to say is that they were there and they knew exactly what was going on, right?
And we're not there yet by any stretch of the imagination. But the impeachment deal is different, Rick, right?
PEARSON: That's absolutely right. This is not a criminal proceeding.
And, indeed, it is somewhat unusual that U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, who's prosecuting this case in Chicago, actually allowed these kind of covert recordings to come out. We haven't really even gotten to the indictment stage, and we don't expect a full indictment against the governor until sometime this spring.
But certainly you have got legislators who have seen the governor spend more than two days on various national talk shows claiming he's not getting a fair hearing. And they're saying, well, come to us. Come to Springfield. Tell us. We have questions.
SANCHEZ: Maybe they should put a TV camera there with some makeup artists and maybe he will show up. What an interesting scenario.
Rick Pearson, my thanks to you as usual for filling us on much of what we don't understand about this case.
PEARSON: Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: A mystery in Minneapolis, American citizens, teenagers, young children disappearing without a trace, are they being recruited to turn on us? Are they going from mosque to sleeper cells?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: By the way, talking about that Gitmo story we were just mentioning just moments ago about what is going on over there, about papers being missing, we're getting a lot of information from you.
A lot of guys are Twittering us now. And this is one comment that we got moments ago. This is from Lizzy. She's watching. She says: "Maybe some shredding happening at the White House before Obama took the seat. We don't really believe things were -- quote -- 'lost.'"
Well, again, we're going to have an exclusive interview in just a moment with a prosecutor who worked Gitmo. He's going to detail or tell us what he knows or what he thinks was missing.
Stay with us for that.
Meanwhile, here's something else to take note of today. Actually, this is more than that. I'm really challenging you to imagine this horrific scenario, if you can. It's on both a small and a large scale.
Your teenage son doesn't come home one evening. You fear the worst. You fear that he's hurt, that maybe he's in some kind of trouble somewhere. And then you realize that his stuff is gone. His passport is gone. Your son has left the country.
This is happening to dozens of families in the American Midwest. And there's a common thread here. All of these missing boys are from Somalia. So, they're Somali Americans. They have been going to school here, born there or from Somali parents living here.
All of the missing boys were active in their local mosques, devout students of their radical religious leaders.
Now, here's the ominous part about this. This is the stuff that may send some shivers down your backs. The FBI and the CIA believe that the men, young Somalis, were brainwashed and recruited to return to Somalia as holy warriors to train and fight jihad, maybe, maybe alongside al Qaeda. Maybe to fight against us, here.
Just think of the security issues here. Think of the fact that these young smart Americanized young men have citizenship papers. Think of their families as well. Heart broken, angry and afraid.
It's frightening to think about. That's why we're going to drill down on this story for you. For all of us. Stay right there. We've got the FBI's take on this. In fact, he's sitting just to my right right now. And also more details from the place where this is happening. This bizarre story when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. What we do here is cut to the change. What's going on in our government, what has President Barack Obama decided to do today on the economic stimulus package, meeting with both Democrats and Republicans. And now we understand the president is about to have his first meeting with the entire Joint Chiefs of Staff. We should be getting that any moment now. And we'll turn it around for you, that meeting, as soon as we get it in.
In the meantime, this mystery of these students in Minneapolis disappearing. Are they going somewhere to turn against us? Here's Kelli Arena's report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Early November, Minneapolis. Seventee-year-old Birhan Hassan tells his family he's getting a ride home with a friend. He vanishes.
ABDIRIZAK BIHI, MISSING BOY'S UNCLE: We searched his room, and we found out that his passport, his belongings and everything was gone.
ARENA: He's not the only one. More than a dozen young men of Somali descent, many of them U.S. citizens, have disappeared from Minneapolis over the last six months. And the FBI has a pretty good idea where they went.
E.K. WILSON, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: A number of young Somali men have traveled from throughout the United States, to include Minneapolis, to Somali potentially to fight.
ARENA: And not just any fight. Many believe these young men have gone to Somalia to fight alongside terrorists. Some even called home to tell their parents not to look for them.
OMAR JAMAL, SOMALI JUSTICE ADVOCACY: Those I talked to were completely shocked and dismayed as to what happened. They were completely in disbelief.
ARENA: The shock only magnified by what happened to one of them. A college student named Shira Ahmed (ph). On October 29th, Ahmed blew himself up in an apparent suicide bombing in northern Somalia. Why? One answer, Somalia is the new rallying cry for Muslims worldwide. Like Iraq, Afghanistan, and before that, Chechnya.
KARIN VON HIPPEL, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC AND INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: You go onto some of these al Qaeda inspired weapon sites, Somalia is now listed as another place to go and fight the jihad.
ARENA: And there's a lot of concern about what could happen if they try to come home. Trained in urban warfare.
JAMAL: I don't see anything that would prevent from those kids to carry out suicide bombings right here.
ARENA: Officials say young men have also disappeared in Boston, Portland, Maine, and Columbus, Ohio. There's clearly recruiting going on and the FBI is investigating. For a community that came to America to free their families from war and fear, a terrible feeling that their children are still at risk. Even in the United States.
BIHI: All of those in the mothers in our community and all those dads in our community are feeling deja vu again, that they are not safe, no matter where they go.
ARENA: Kelli Arena, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SANCHEZ: Now, just to be transparent about this, Kelli filed that report before Barack Obama took office as president of the United States. Have things changed? We want to ask Omar Jamal. He is a Somali community activist who is joining us there from the scene. And also with us here is Harold Copus. Harold is a former FBI guy who can take us through what our government might be doing to protect us against something like this. Let me begin with you, Omar.
Who were these kids? What do we know about them? Have any of the parents heard from these kids yet?
Apparently there are reports that they told their parents they're going to get cell phones whenever they get to where they're going to, and they'll call you. Have they called?
JAMAL: They did. They did call sometimes in between a week or two weeks gone by, they placed a phone call to their mothers.
SANCHEZ: What did they say?
JAMAL: Telling them simply that they are in Somalia and they are safe and they will see them in heaven.
SANCHEZ: What, that they're safe and see them in heaven? That's not the kind of thing as an American I want to hear.
JAMAL: Well, that's what they say.
SANCHEZ: So they're not running a charity over there?
JAMAL: Well, they are fighting. They are fighting alongside Islamic militants in Somalia. And they believe that they are determined to go to heaven. These kids have been completely indoctrinated, and that's why sometimes they think their parents are not even pure Islamic faith.
SANCHEZ: So it sounds like you're saying that wherever they've gone, they've been radicalized and the fear, of course, is -- I mean, that's fine, you want to believe in whatever you want to believe, it's OK. But if you're willing to believe in it to where you're willing to do harm to other people, and if you happen to have American citizenship papers or passports or residency, you now become a fear to us here living in this country, do you not agree?
JAMAL: I do. But what really concerns us the most as a the head of the Somali Justice Advocacy Center, this has been going on for years. Nobody was able to connect the dots.
SANCHEZ: I guess, let me bring you into this, Harold. Just as an FBI agent, from what you've just heard him say, are you alarmed?
HAROLD COPUS, FORMER FBI AGENTS: Very alarmed. Do you realize what this means? We're now going to have individuals who have been trained in urban tactics who know America and now they'll be right back in here, sleeper cells. SANCHEZ: So these guys, they speak English, like us. They were trained in the United States. They know who won the Heisman last year. They have the right paperwork. Easier for them to infiltrate us than let's say any other person who's grown up in one of these countries, for example.
COPUS: Oh, certainly. It makes it a lot easier. If you can have that type background, get him in here and see what harm they can do.
SANCHEZ: What do you do? Do you go to Somalia and try to look for them and interview them? Is that the CIA's job? I understand the FBI going all over the country, Boston, Seattle, Columbus, Ohio and Minneapolis, right, trying to find how many of these kids that are missing?
COPUS: Certainly. What do you do? You may never find them in Somalia. They could really be over there. That's impossible almost. What you're going to have to do is look here in the States, and now anyplace they may land, in any of those towns you're talking about, let us know when these guys show back up and let us know when there's more recruiting.
SANCHEZ: So there's a launch (ph) on them right now.
Thanks. Appreciate it. We're out of time. Omar Jamal, good stuff. And Harold, as usually, good for you. We'll keep an eye on this story and continue to keep you abreast of it.
The war on terror was the Bush administration's number one priority. But you are about to hear in an exclusive interview from a military commander and prosecutor who says it was a disjointed priority. And he has the evidence. That's next.
And what does Ted Haggard's wife say when she is asked if her husband is gay? You'll hear it for yourself.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Here's the situation. Barack Obama says he wants to clear out Gitmo, probably put some of the guys who were there in regular American prisons. But there are 245 people there. How do you find out who's good, who's bad, who's in between. Well, you've got to look at the files. The problem is, the files seem to be a mess. Seem to be disjointed. That's a serious problem.
Here's who we're going to talk to right now. This guy is a soldier. He has served his country. In fact, put up his picture, if you would. The picture we have of him. That's what he looks like right there. Proud American. Proud fighting man. Proud soldier. Served his country. Asked to be a prosecutor. He's a lieutenant colonel and he's joining us now by phone. Darrell Vandevelde, thanks for being with us, sir.
LTC DARREL VANDEVELDE, FORMER GITMO PROSECUTOR: Glad to be here. Thank you. SANCHEZ: All right. We've got a picture we're going to put up as well. Put this picture up of this teenager. You want to see somebody looks like who is inside Gitmo, who is inside Guantanamo, one of the people being held there? There you go. That's one of the so-called terrorists in Guantanamo. This kid, my God, he looks like one of my sons, he's illiterate. He was recruited by insurgents. He was accused of tossing some kind of hand grenade. How bad is he? Let's ask Darrell, because he would know. Lieutenant colonel, tell us about this kid. Who is he? Is he a big-time terrorist?
VANDEVELDE: That's what I thought when I first started prosecuting him. The information that I had suggested that he had confessed to throwing this grenade, which did injure a couple of U.S. Special Forces soldiers who were badly injured, no doubt about it. They've recovered now, thank god.
But supposedly I had a confession from the Afghan police and subsequent confession to U.S. interrogators. When I looked at the file, I thought, this is a slam dunk. This is a case that I've prosecuted by the dozens in civilian life. And what I found out was something very different.
SANCHEZ: That you had no information and you couldn't prove who he was, or if he was just some poor kid from the slums who got picked up or recruited and paid to do something not so good, huh?
VANDEVELDE: Well, that's right. What happened was, I found out that there was evidence that he had been tortured by the Afghan police. The military judge assigned to the case ruled in fact after I had left the commissions that the confessions had been obtained by torture.
SANCHEZ: Great. There's something else I want to get in here real quick. I don't mean to interrupt you. But before we run out of time. Here's something you've filed. I'm going to read to the viewers your words and then I want you to explain it on the back side. Because this is kind of upsetting as we read it as Americans. Especially considering that the war on terror was supposed to be the number one priority for this country over the last seven years. You, as a prosecutor, when you were handling these cases, wrote this, "I discovered that the evidence, such as it was, remained scattered throughout an incomprehensible labyrinth of databases, strewn throughout the prosecution offices, in desk drawers, book cases packed with vaguely-labeled plastic containers or even on tops of desks vacated by prosecutors who had departed for other assignments. The state of disarray was so extensive that I later learned that crucial evidence and other documents relevant to the prosecution had been tossed into lockers located at Guantanamo and promptly forgotten."
Wow!
VANDEVELDE: And as somebody who has proudly served this country, I could not believe, and I couldn't accept that our military had performed so badly, given six years to put this evidence into order, to organize it, to systematize it and come up with prosecutable cases. Instead, nothing of the sort was done. And the end result is you've got a kid like Muhammad Jawad who has been in Guantanamo now for six years, now going on seven, who has no immediate prospect for release.
SANCHEZ: And you are a prosecutor -- or were a prosecutor for the U.S. military. Lieutenant Colonel Darrell Vandevelde. My thanks to you. We'll keep tabs on this. And thanks for sharing that information with us.
VANDEVELDE: Yes, sir. Thank you.
SANCHEZ: A whole lot can happen in a day. We told you about a new alleged sex scandal involving Pastor Ted Haggard yesterday. Since our show yesterday, there's another person who's come forward. Exclusive information on that. And Ted Haggard and his wife suddenly appear on Oprah.
We've got the twists, the turns and the video. That's ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: You might say this is getting kind of ugly. He had a tryst. Now we learn not just with one, but allegedly three men we know of now. According to reports. All while leading one of the country's best-known megachurches. So what did Ted Haggard say to Oprah today when she asked him and his wife about this? Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: Do you think you're gay?
TED HAGGARD, FORMER MEGACHURCH PASTOR: No, I don't think I'm gay. I did wonder about that, after this crisis, when I went to therapy, I said, I need to know, am I gay, am I straight, am I bi? What am I? And my first therapist said you are a heterosexual with homosexual attachments. So we processed through that. I wasn't sure what that meant. Then we went through ...
WINFREY: Nor am I, nor is the audience, certainly nor are the gay people watching right now.
HAGGARD: And it is -- I do believe I don't fit into the normal boxes. I think they are complexities associated with some people's sexuality. I don't know about other people.
WINFREY: I would agree.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It is a case a lot of people in the United State are talking about. Welcome back, I'm Rick Sanchez here in the world headquarters of CNN.
This is a man who monthly meant with the president of the United States under the Bush and Cheney administration. He was one of the heads of the National Evangelical Association. And now, there is another revelation coming out. That it wasn't just a prostitute in the relationship with Ted Haggard, but one of the church volunteers who has now sat down to do an interview in detail with CNN. Here's part of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRANT HAAS, FORMER CHURCH VOLUNTEER: Ted would send me text messages saying things like asking me what kind of sexual positions I like, what do I like as far as drugs, do I drugs? What he called the party formula. He really thought he was invincible. He used to say to me, you know what, Grant? You can become a man of God and have a little bit of fun on the side. And I really think he believed that philosophy. That he can do whatever he wants as long as he's praying and fasting on the side. As long as he is doing God's work he can have a little bit of fun on the side.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Let's let you know now what Ted Haggard responds to when we called him today in regards to that interview we did. Out of Colorado. Here we go. This is the response out of Ted Haggard. "Two years ago I met with Grant Haas along with a church overseer and my wife to ask Grant's forgiveness for our inappropriate relationship. Prior to that I discussed it with my wife, my therapist and our children. Although there was no physical contact, I have regretted my irresponsible behavior. Once again, I ask Grant for his forgiveness as well as the people of the church."
Joining us now is Jim Spellman. He is CNN's Colorado correspondent. Jim, who is this guy?
JIM SPELLMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Grant Haas, he is 25 years old, lives here in Colorado Springs. He came here after being kicked out of another bible college in Chicago when he came to them and asked for help with his homosexuality.
SANCHEZ: Now, Ted Haggard says he didn't have physical contact with him. Is that what Mr. Haas says as well?
SPELLMAN: Mr. Haas says on a weekend getaway trip, they stared a hotel room and Mr. Haggard asked if he can masturbate next to him in the same bed. And Grant Haas says he said no. And Ted Haggard did it any way.
SANCHEZ: Huh. Is he being given money by the church where haggard used to be or any kind of compensation where this church where Haggard used to be pastor of?
SPELLMAN: Yes, Grant Haas came to the church after the Mike Jones incident and after Ted Haggard had stepped down from the church and told them what he was going through. For a period of time, they tried to get him counseling, cover some of his expenses after Grant Haas became dissatisfied with that, threatened a lawsuit and the church settled with him for $179,000 in three payment. One payment for 49,000 still pending this summer. Grant Haas told us he's willing to lose the $49,000 to get this off of his chest and to stop Ted Haggard from starting another church and maybe doing this to another young man.
SANCHEZ: Wow. And Ted Haggard again, with his wife Gayle on Oprah today, was this part of a deal? Was he supposed to keep quiet about this?
SPELLMAN: He was supposed to keep quiet about this. Now, the church, New Life Church here in Colorado Springs says the compensation was for pastoral care, to help him get over this traumatic experience, but within the settlement, of which I obtained a copy of today, clearly says that he's not to speak to media or be public about it. Grant Haas characterizes it as hush money. And the church denies that. They say it's just pastoral care. But it's certainly raises eyebrows.
SANHCEZ: Unbelievable. You hear a story like this, certainly he was a public official at the time, if not, a public figure at the very least, giving he was meeting with the president and part of the Evangelical Association, thereby the newsworthiness of this story. Jim Spellman, CNN's Colorado correspondent, our thanks to you. Almost makes you want to wear a raincoat when you tell these stories.
Wolf Blitzer standing by now with more in THE SITUATION ROOM. Wolf, what you got?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Thanks very much, Rick.
President Obama makes his case to the country about why he thinks America needs this stimulus plan and needs it right now. The House, by the way, is debating the bill. A vote is expected in just a couple of hours. Keep it right here. We're going to bring you the breaking news in THE SITUATION ROOM as it happens.
Also happening now, President Obama and his first official visit to the Pentagon. He's talking with U.S. military commanders in the so- called tank, the room for top secret meetings. We're going to go there once he starts speaking.
And one on one with the former President Jimmy Carter. Talks about the crisis in the Middle East and the new administration. And the one question Barack Obama asked in that White House meeting.
All that and a lot more coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM. Rick?
SANCHEZ: Wolf Blitzer, we thank you. We'll look forward to your report as usual at 5:00. We watch a lot of television around here. Most of it serious, some is the kind of stuff you like to see. Especially when it comes to the president, the new president of the United States. "The Fix" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Here's what you want every day about this time. "The Fix."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEPHEN COLBERT, COMEDY CENTRAL: Recapping our top story, I can't believe I'm the one breaking this. Our president has been kidnapped by the terrorist group calling themselves the al-Arabiya Television Network. Just listen to what they made him say.
OBAMA: The Iranian people are a great people.
My job to the Muslim World is to say Americans are not your enemy. We sometimes make mistakes. We have not been perfect.
COLBERT: Not been perfect? What are they doing to him? We know none of that is true. You know what? Maybe he's blanking out USA number one in code. We will come up with your ransom money right after we come up with that $850 billion stimulus package.
JON STEWART, COMEDY CENTRAL: What does he have to say that he can't say on American television?
OBAMA: I have lived in Muslim countries. I have Muslim members of my family.
STEWART: Wait. Why haven't we met them? Don't you think they would have enjoyed sharing in the campaign process? But of course this administration marks a new beginning for U.S. relations with the Muslim World whereas the former administration spoke to them in booms and kablooeys. See if you can spot this new president's tact.
OBAMA: Respect.
...respectful.
... mutual respect.
... language of respect ...
R - E - S - P - E - C - T - Respect.
STEWART: Just a little bit, just a little bit. R-E-S-P-E-C-T.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Every time we do "The Fix", I hear the people in the background. These are all very studious, very smart people here, the writers and producers at CNN. And you know what they do when we run "The Fix"? They giggle like children. They do. I'm calling them out. Look at them looking at me.
All right. We're out of time. Lots of responses today on MySpace and everywhere else. Wolf Blitzer is standing by now in THE SITUATION ROOM. Wolf, what you got?
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Rick. Happening now, President Obama gets an earful from the military brass about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
