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Senate Discusses Stimulus; President Obama Will Keep Faith- Based Initiatives; Congress Debates Tax Cuts for Individuals
Aired February 05, 2009 - 10:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It is Thursday, February 5th. Here are the top stories right here we're following in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Live pictures that you're looking at now. They're from Capitol Hill. The full Senate working on strategies to reboot the economy. Your lawmakers also looking at new ways to track billions of federal bailout dollars. We'll have that for you.
Plus, President Barack Obama at the National Prayer Breakfast this morning. He'll keep his predecessor's faith-based initiatives programs with a bit of a tweak there. We'll tell you about that.
Food kits for ice storm victims may be tainted with salmonella. A FEMA briefing live this hour from Louisville. New information as it happens.
Good morning, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. Tony Harris is off.
You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Of course we start with issue #1, the economy, and how to fix it. Senators searching for things to cut from that now $900 billion stimulus bill. A closed-door meeting of senators from both parties got under way. That happened just moments ago.
And senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash following the developments on Capitol Hill. As a matter of fact, she's standing right in front of the door where they're meeting.
Dana, do you know what's happening behind closed doors?
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you something, that this meeting is definitely still going on, but something interesting just happened, Don, and that is that the senators just kicked their aides, their staff, out of the room. And so now it appears to be just a senators-only meeting.
And why is this important? This is important because what's going on behind these closed doors basically will very likely determine whether or not Barack Obama will have enough votes to get his stimulus package, Don. Because President Obama understands now in meetings that he had with some of the senators in here like Susan Collins of Maine and Ben Nelson of Nebraska, that in order to have this pass the Senate, they need to slash spending, spending that many of these senators -- and, by the way, there are about 14 senators, Democrats and Republicans, who have now been coming in and out of this room -- they say that much of this spending is excess and doesn't create jobs.
In fact, we talked to Senator Ben Nelson on his way into this meeting. Listen to what he told us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BEN NELSON (D), NEBRASKA: There's no specific that I want to talk about, because you wouldn't do that before you get in here. But I think everybody understands that we need to save as much of the taxpayers' money as possible, so that anything directed (ph) in this bill is essentially stimulus for jobs. And one way or the other. And that's what we have attempted to do.
We have spoken to the president. The president is in agreement that we need to have a jobs-based stimulus bill, investment for the future, as well. But we're really trying to work together to get this done.
America's future is way too important to let partisan differences separate us. And that's why we felt that a bipartisan approach, which the American people are looking for, is far better.
BASH: Thank you. I'll let you go in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: So there you heard Ben Nelson. Now he is in the room behind me.
We also spoke with Senator Susan Collins, who, again, just like Ben Nelson, met with President Obama yesterday. And one of the interesting things that has been going on behind the scenes, particularly with those meetings, is that Susan Collins actually met -- excuse me, I'm just going to show you that we have Claire McCaskill walking in. She's another Democrat walking into that meeting.
OK. Forgive me, I just wanted to show you that, because that gives you a sense of the action that's going on here.
Claire McCaskill is one of President Obama's oldest and closest allies, but she's also somebody who is a fiscal conservative, and she has been saying, just like many of these other -- not just Republicans, but Democrats, I like this idea, it's critically important to get a stimulus package passed. But she says that there is spending in there that she wants slashed. That's why she is in there working with her fellow senators to try to figure out how to do that on a bipartisan basis.
But back to what I was saying, Don, about Susan...
LEMON: And Dana, real quickly...
BASH: Sure.
LEMON: ... you have been standing there as this meeting is going on, tracking down a lot of people. Did you speak to anyone else going into that meeting?
BASH: I did. I did. Thank you. And that was Susan Collins, who, again, has been the Republican driving force of this bipartisan meeting that's going on here.
She, again, did meet with President Obama at the White House yesterday. And one of the interesting things that has been going on is that she sat down with the president and went over many of line-by- line spending items that she said that she wanted to have cut.
She said that she wanted to cut, for example, program x, and he said, OK. And she said, "How about program y?" And he said no.
So she took that information back with her from the meeting with the president to a meeting with some Democrats. And that's the kind of approach that they are taking to try to really get the nitty-gritty down on this bipartisan amendment to cut the spending. In fact, I did speak with her. Listen to what she said.
LEMON: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: It's too early to tell. This is the first time that we have brought the whole group together. And we have done a lot of work over the night. But we'll have to see what the reactions are.
BASH: And you have been doing work based on your meeting with President Obama, right?
COLLINS: That's correct.
BASH: So when he said, "I'm OK with cutting program x but not program y," you took that back and talked to your colleagues about that?
COLLINS: Yes. I have been working based on the discussions I had had with the president, but also the discussions that I've been having with my colleague. Senator Nelson and I met until late last night to go over a way to proceed, and also a list of potential spending rejections to more carefully focus the bill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now Don, one last thing before I let you go. You're looking at the door where the senators are meeting. But over here, that's where their staff is.
I mentioned at the beginning here that they kicked their staff out of the room because they want to just meet with senators only. This is the scene right now in the hallway. Everybody is just really waiting here, even the senators' staff, to figure out what they can accomplish behind these closed doors -- Don.
LEMON: Dana Bash on Capitol Hill, where senators are meeting, both parties. And to the left of Dana, a closed-door meeting. We've been seeing people going in and out. Dana doing a great job there.
We appreciate it, Dana. If you get anymore information, something happens, get back to us.
BASH: Sure will.
LEMON: All right. Thank you very much for that.
We'll continue to monitor that story.
In the meantime, new jobless claims surged last week to, get this, 626,000. That is a 26-year high. In all, nearly 4.8 million people continue to draw unemployment benefits. That is a new record high. And many economists say the jobless numbers will get worse in the weeks and months to come.
There's word today of still more job cuts. Cosmetics company Estee Lauder says it's trimming 2,000 jobs. The company will also continue a hiring freeze. Estee Lauder says second-quarter profits fell 30 percent.
President Barack Obama privately saying he is confident the stimulus plan will pass the Senate by the end of the week. We'll see if that happens. But which plan will it be?
Chief Business Correspondent Ali Velshi talked about the different versions on AC 360 just last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALI VELSHI, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: There are about three versions going on, maybe even four, depending on how you count it right now, and some of them have a lot more tax breaks, some of them have a lot more spending. Wall Street is more likely to respond positively to those ones that have more tax breaks than spending. It doesn't mean that's the right thing, it just means that's what Wall Street investors might like more of.
I should tell you something. There's something very important about this week.
Anderson, you remember last week we were reporting about job losses? Tens of thousands every day, in some cases 70,000, last Monday. We have a very serious problem.
On Friday, we're going to get the first jobs report, the first employment report for 2009, the January employment report. We are going to see a loss of probably more than 500,000 jobs, and that is going to add urgency to this whole issue of what needs to be done for the stimulus.
So, again, two days is a long way to go. It really all depends on what is in the stimulus bill that President Obama says he's got the votes to get passed in the Senate.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: Ali Velshi on AC 360 last night.
Now to the government's other big financial package. That is the $700 billion bailout plan. Half of the cash is gone.
We're looking at live pictures now. Look at that. That is Elizabeth Warren, head of the Congressional Oversight Committee. She is speaking now. The Senate Banking Committee is meeting to hammer out safeguards and oversight for the rest of that cash.
Just last hour, Senator Christopher Dodd took aim at those huge executive bonuses that have angered so many Americans.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: And I applaud the Obama administration for moving to impose new and tougher restrictions on executive compensation for companies that receive TARP funds. In fact, I'd say as an aside, I intend to offer an amendment to our economic recovery package either later today or over the weekend that would build on these restrictions and prohibit bonuses to the 25 most highly-paid employees of companies that received TARP funding, authorize the treasury secretary to limit certain other performance- based bonuses, as well as require say on pay votes on executive compensation and exact other safeguards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I mentioned Elizabeth Warren is speaking live now. We're going to talk one-on-one with the head of that congressional panel that's overseeing the bailout, Elizabeth Warren. A live interview tomorrow at noon Eastern, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Keeping the faith, but overhauling the program, President Barack Obama makes changes to the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives, and it started by President Bush, that faith-based initiative program. After his economic daily brief briefing, the president signs an executive order this hour to create a new advisory council on faith. In the next hour, he delivers remarks at the Energy Department.
Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux joins us live. And she will tell us about the changes the president is making to the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives.
Suzanne, it was very interesting to hear him this morning, because he really did go -- he went a little bit deeper into faith, and almost, I thought, he was giving a prayer himself at this program.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: As you know, Don, faith is very important to the president, and obviously he welcomes people who are not religious, as well, and that's what the message is. You are going to have and you're going to see a council of advisers, about 25 or so from various faiths, from Christian, Jewish, secular, gay rights, all of them involved in giving the president advice from time to time, getting together, talking about how they could impact his own policy and agenda. Their priorities for the office, they talk about economic recovery; helping poor folks; supporting women and families; reducing teen pregnancy, the need for abortion; the crisis of fatherhood, and those young men who feel that they're not a part of the system. This is the priority that the administration says is going to be a part of their faith-based initiative.
I want you to take a listen to what the president said earlier today at the prayer breakfast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The goal of this office will not to be to favor one religious group over another, or even religious groups over secular groups. It will simply be to work on behalf of those organizations that want to work on behalf of our communities, and to do so without blurring the line that our founders wisely drew between church and state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And to that point, Don, he is signing an executive order, essentially making a change from the faith-based initiative. The religious groups that participate, that use federal dollars for certain community projects, they are not allowed to discriminate based on faith, that they have to allow people of different faiths to participate. And he wants to make sure that that is really enforced.
And so what he is doing is signing an executive order saying, look, I'm going to give you the legal tools, put a little bit of teeth in this, if you will. You will have to go to the White House counsel, as well as the attorney general, and we're going to take a second look at some of these groups, just to make sure that they are actually following that. That that is something that is enforced in this administration.
We heard it on the campaign trail, saying that he would not allow groups to use federal dollars if they discriminated. So this is something that he is clearly following up on -- Don.
LEMON: Suzanne Malveaux in a very windy Washington, D.C.
Suzanne, hang on to a tree, will you?
MALVEAUX: We do what we can.
LEMON: Thank you, very much. We'll see you soon.
It was a water landing many called, quite frankly, a miracle. Now hear what the captain was telling controllers as he headed right into the Hudson. We have those recordings next in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Well, the stimulus bill keeps getting fatter and fatter and fatter in the Senate. The cost is creeping closer to a trillion dollars after Republicans added tax breaks for homebuyers.
Live pictures of the Senate at work today. Both Democrats and Republicans want tax cuts in this stimulus plan. But define tax cut, will you? Well, you'll get a different answer from each party.
CNNMoney.com's Jeanne Sahadi -- hi, Jeanne -- she's going to explain that to us.
Jeanne, let's go in alphabetical order. That's a good way to start.
JEANNE SAHADI, CNNMONEY.COM: OK. Good.
LEMON: Let's start with the Democrats, will you?
SAHADI: Sure. Democrats want to see tax cuts in the stimulus bill that are targeted to low- and middle-income families, regardless of their tax liability. In other words, some low-income families don't end up owing taxes at the end of the year because they qualify for a lot of tax credits.
Democrats have three credits in this bill that they are particularly fond of. One is the Make Work Pay credit. That's for $500 per worker, $1,000 per two-earner couple. It would be limited by income to people making less than $75,000 if you're single, $150,000 if you're filing jointly.
They also have two credits, the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit, that they expand in this bill. And that's for families with kids. In particular, the earned income tax credit will help families with three kids or more. And, in fact, let's take a family of five making $32,000 a year. They would probably see an extra $1,650 as a result of these types of tax breaks.
In addition, that homebuyer credit you mentioned, that actually did -- it was a Republican amendment, but it drew bipartisan support. That's an expansion of a current homebuyer credit that exists in the law. It's temporary, but the amendment would increase the amount from $7,500 to $15,000, and it would expand who is eligible from first time homebuyers to all homebuyers.
LEMON: OK. So you said that one was proposed by the Republicans but got bipartisan support.
SAHADI: Yes.
LEMON: OK. Since you mentioned the Republicans, let's go on. Let's talk about the Republicans' view on tax cuts.
SAHADI: Republicans also want to give tax breaks to low- and middle-income families, but they really would prefer it be geared towards people who end up owing more taxes than they get back in tax credits. In effect, they would like tax cuts at all income levels.
What they have proposed in place of the Make Work Pay credit is to lower the two bottom tax rates. Everybody pays taxes at different levels. You know, you pay tax at all the different levels. But the two lowest are at 10 and 15 percent.
They want to lower it by five percentage points each. That would be an immediate bump in your paycheck and, I think, at the end of the day, would be probably worth more than the Make Work Pay credit.
In addition, a payroll tax break. They've also proposed something like a six-month payroll tax break, that everybody pays 6.2 percent of their income up to $102,000 into the Social Security system. If you had a payroll tax holiday, that money would stay in your paycheck. So that is something else that has been batted about.
In the Senate, Republicans put in an amendment that would provide relief from the alternative minimum tax for middle and upper middle income families. That's something Congress is going to pass, no matter what. But they put it into the stimulus bill.
The controversy over that is, does it get paid for? That's the perennial controversy. But they have included it in the stimulus bill, which will not be subject to PAYGO rules. And as we mentioned, the homebuyers credit, Republicans were really in favor of expanding that.
LEMON: Jeanne, very good. And like how you just talk to us and explain it and make sense of it. Thank you for doing that.
And all a work in progress right now. And you're still following it.
SAHADI: Oh my God, yes.
LEMON: Yes. Jeanne, we appreciate it. Thank you.
And Jeanne will be back next hour. She'll take a look at the proposals for business tax breaks, what the Republicans want and also what the Democrats want. You don't want to miss that.
Meantime, Congress is taking a hard look at the national salmonella outbreaks this morning and ways to strengthen food safety laws.
Live pictures of the Senate Agriculture Committee. You're looking at that right now.
A thousand or more products, energy bars to ice cream to cookies to crackers, have all been recalled. They contain peanut butter from a Georgia processing plant, and officials say the company shipped products even though they tested positive for salmonella. They shipped them, even though they tested positive.
The outbreak is linked to eight deaths and more than 550 illnesses. A Vermont mother says her 7-year-old son Christopher was one of those who got sick.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GABRIELLE MEUNIER, SON SICKENED BY SALMONELLA: When we can't even depend on that, that peanut butter that we put in our kids' sandwiches that they take to school, that that's not safe, don't we have to ask what is?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not only do we have a failure in the mechanisms of detect food-borne illnesses, but we have a flawed system of educating the public about products as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right.
A warning from FEMA to last week's ice cream victims.
Hey, listen, I want to tell you real quick, the governor is speaking now. We're going to take a look at that, exactly what he is saying about this, and we'll get it back to you in just a little bit.
OK. We're going to go there now. I'm being told getting guidance now.
They're having that hearing, talking about the salmonella and exactly what happened, what may have ended up in those packs. Let's take a listen now.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
GOV. STEVE BESHEAR (D), KENTUCKY: ... meal products that are distributed out to our folks.
First of all, let me say this, we have, since last Wednesday or Thursday, distributed over 100,000 meals. We have not had one report of anybody being ill as a result of eating any meal.
As a matter of fact, I ate one of those meals down in western Kentucky the other day, and I know I ate the peanut butter, because I like peanut butter. And I'm here today and I feel OK.
So we don't expect any trouble with this, quite honestly. But out of an abundance of caution, we are taking quick steps. As soon as FEMA learned of this yesterday, they notified us here in Kentucky. They stopped any shipments of anymore of these MREs from that particular contract.
We immediately contracted in state for meals, and we're not missing a beat. Nobody is going to be without food, and nobody is going to miss a meal during this crisis.
They are, at the same time, gearing up another contract. And so by tomorrow, I believe that that contract will be operational, and our meal provision will go on as scheduled, and folks will get their meals, as well as their food -- as their water and other things that we're getting out for them.
So that's where we stand right now. I'm going to ask Nancy to come up, and she can address both the declaration and the peanut butter situation. And then the mayor is here, and we'll answer your questions.
LEMON: OK. That is Governor Steven Beshear, Kentucky Governor Steven Beshear, talking about all of those packs that were -- those emergency packs and food packs that were distributed to he said more than 100,000 to people who were dealing with that storm. They have a warning for them. They say, throw away all of those packs, all of the peanut butter packs.
He said so far, he's feeling fine. He had one of these packs, ate some of the peanut butter, and he is doing fine. But they're saying discard all of this.
And just to reiterate there, there is a warning today from FEMA to these storm victims from last week's ice storm victims. The disaster agency says ready-to-eat food kits, meals ready to eat, distributed in Arkansas and Kentucky, may contain salmonella. Thousands of meals, 100,000, he said, or so, with packets of peanut butter that may be subject to the recall.
You see FEMA director just up there, Nancy Ward. She was just speaking moments ago, and Steven Beshear also speaking in Louisville, Kentucky, right now.
We will continue to monitor that for you. If any news comes out of that, we'll bring it to you.
In the meantime, there are things you want and things you need. Things you want and things you need. Make sure you get what you need, and at the price you want, really.
Personal Finance Editor Gerri Willis has her "Top Tips" coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Ah, that means it's time for Gerri's tips.
Recession or not, you know, there are things and stuff you have to buy to function out there in the real world. Some things you just have to have.
Personal finance editor Gerri Willis is here with "Top Tips."
Gerri, let's start with health insurance. I want to ask you how we trim costs on that, but you have to have health insurance.
GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: Yes, you do, Don. And good morning to you.
You know, it is rare to find anything free, especially in health care, but we put together a few resources for free and reduced costs.
Check out free federal clinics at ask.hrsa.gov. Now, you don't have to have health insurance. You pay what you can afford. You can get immunizations, checkups, dental care, and even prescription drugs. To find out what free clinics and other free care is available in your area, go to the Association of Medical Colleges' Web site. That is aamc.org/uninsured. Lots of Web sites here.
If it's just medicine that you're looking for, you might want to check out some programs that are intended to cut the cost of prescription drugs. Now, these programs are intended to help those who otherwise can't afford prescription drugs.
Here's some places to go. Check out freemedicineprogram.org, and rxassist.org. Lots of Web sites, but I've got to tell you, Don, they make all of the difference in the world.
LEMON: Yes. And this one that you're going to talk about next, Gerri, very personal to me, because I was just dealing with it yesterday.
WILLIS: Uh-oh.
LEMON: Auto insurance.
WILLIS: Oh, yes.
LEMON: I mean, you have to have it. And lowering the bill, because there's so much stuff sometimes tacked on that you don't really need and you don't really know about it.
How do we lower the bill?
WILLIS: Well, it's homeowners insurance, it's auto insurance. It can cost you a ton.
You want to keep your credit score as high as you can for these insurances, and to keep costs low, because it's the basis for the rate that you pay on insurance. Most car insurers filter your credit info into a formula to determine what your insurance risk score is.
Now, this score determines how likely you are to file a claim. And what you do for a living, well, that counts, too. Some insurance companies give discounts for people in certain low-risk professions in a few states. If you're an economist, an accountant or a teacher or maybe even a TV anchor, Don, you may be able to shave some dollars off your bill.
LEMON: Everybody can, right?
WILLIS: That's right. And if it's home insurance that you're wanting to lower, consider raising your deductible. Don't downgrade your coverage, but just raise the amount of money you have to pay towards a loss before your insurance kicks in. And, of course, ask about group coverage. But I hope your claim goes okay, Don.
LEMON: No, it's not a claim. I was just sort of rechecking and redoing everything. And you know, when you have to renew the license plate and, you know, that whole thing. It was a whole day of...
WILLIS: No fun.
LEMON: ... yes, a whole day of mess. OK. So, this one is also -- a lot of people are dealing with this. Many people don't even have home phones anymore. They just have cell phones. So, what about saving on cell phones, or even credit cards, Gerri?
WILLIS: Yes, well, you know, the grass is always greener when somebody else talks about their cell phone plan or their credit card, right?
LEMON: Yes.
WILLIS: You want to go to billshrink.com. Now, this free Web site let's you enter info about your usage and compare this against other offerings in the market. You get a personalized list of what other cell plans or credit cards would offer, and if they fit your needs, plus an estimate of how much you would save annually by switching. So, lots of help there if you really want to get the very best deal out there.
LEMON: All right, Gerri. You know what, you have this show on the weekend, this little show that does very well and everyone pays attention to. So what is on "Your Bottom Line" this week?
WILLIS: Well, "Your Bottom Line," we're evaluating the stimulus plan. You know, it's really complicated. We're going to pick it apart, really tell you what it means to you. Plus economizing your life, and our exclusive interview can Shaun Donovan, President Obama's new secretary of housing and urban development. That's "Your Bottom Line" this Saturday, 9:30 a.m. Eastern on CNN. Hope you join us, Don.
LEMON: Oh, I always do, Geri. I DVR it and I watch it over and over and over for the tips and just to see you.
WILLIS: Thank you so much.
LEMON: All right, Gerri, thank you. See you this weekend.
WILLIS: All right.
LEMON: You know what? We are watching your wallet, because we are watching the gas gauge for you, and the price at the pump, it just keeps going up. AAA says the average price for a gallon of regular unleaded crept up nearly a penny overnight. It's almost $1.91 a gallon.
Well, that's different than the $4 we had just a little bit ago. And in the last eight days, you know, the price is up more than 6 cents. So we hope it stays stable right there.
A new report shows we've got a record number of people collecting benefits, benefits of all kinds. Susan Lisovicz is at the New York Stock Exchange breaking down the jobless numbers for us. Susan, the jobless number just keeps going up and up and up, and people really are in need of benefits right now. SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and, you know, it's -- at this point, it's hard to shock me. And I think it's hard to shock a lot of us, because we'Re just seeing some astonishing numbers. And the bottom line, Don, is that the economy is so weak that it's taking a lot longer to find a job.
Nearly 5 million people are getting unemployment benefits for more than one week. That's a second straight record high. People are able to draw benefits for a longer amount these days because as the layoffs mounted, you may recall, Congress proved a benefits extension late last year.
And this year, of course, the cuts keep piling up. Today, Estee Lauder announced that it's cutting 2,000 workers and freezing merit raises because of a big drop in earnings. But on Wall Street, stocks are rising, reversing an early sell-off. The Dow right now is up 36 points or half a percent. The Nasdaq is up 17 points or 1.25 percent.
And, of course, the weekly jobless claims over 600,000, just one week, Don. So it's got a lot of economists looking at those numbers and debating as to whether the recession is going to really get worse or longer into the year, or whether we're starting to see -- starting to see -- there are some economists saying the rate of decline is actually not as steep as we had seen in recent weeks. They're looking for the silver lining, you know, same numbers, but a lot of different views, Don.
LEMON: Hard to find the silver lining, but it's good that they found it. At least it's slowing, because job security is such a huge, huge issue right now. It's affecting everything we do. And especially even in retail. We've got horrible numbers this morning. I think on retail sales, what did we get?
LISOVICZ: Well, you know, obviously when you're losing your job or worried about your job, you're not spending. And that's a trend that we saw very pronounced with the holiday season. And January there has been follow-through. Most retailers missed January sales estimates. We're seeing big declines at a wide range of stores, including Target, the discounter, Gap, the specialty retailer, and even wholesaler Costco, which had been doing well.
Analysts say we can expect more of the same for at least six months. But the one winner, big winner, continues to be Wal-Mart. Its biggest sellers were essentials, like groceries and health care products. Wal-Mart shares leading the Dow right now, up about 4.5 percent. So, Wal-Mart doing all right, but for the wrong reasons -- Don.
LEMON: Yes. And I believe Wal-Mart, one of the places that's actually hiring and retaining employees in this economy.
LISOVICZ: That's good to know.
LEMON: Yes, that is good to know right now. And we have been monitoring the Senate, the debate, the stimulus package. Hopefully it will help the situation when it comes to jobs. Susan, thank you very much.
LISOVICZ: You're welcome.
LEMON: That's on the lower right-hand side of your screen, if you're watching television after we get -- you know, when we're in other programming. There it is. Monitoring the stimulus debate in the Senate right now, so if anything comes out of that.
Plus, our Dana Bash is on Capitol Hill. We'll bring it to you right here in the CNN NEWSROOM. And as the most serious credit crisis in decades rocks your finances, cnnmoney.com has some advice for you and some answers, of course. Make sure you check out our Special Report, "America's Money Crisis." That's at cnnmoney.com.
Let's talk now about war and ending the war in Afghanistan with peace and social reform, not just military action. Can that happen? Deepak Chopra -- you know him -- he explains when he joins us live. No holds barred conversation coming up right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. Let's talk about something that is -- the president talked about this morning, about reaching out to all religions.
The military's scrambling to find a new route to get supplies into Afghanistan. Well, that's because U.S. forces may be kicking out the neighboring -- kicked out of neighboring Kyrgyzstan. Now, it's home to Manas Air Base. Manas Air Base is there.
Well, The Pentagon says it has not received any formal closure notice from Kyrgyzstan, but it is -- the president has made it clear that he wants the U.S. out. He wants us out. His announcement coming after the former Soviet nation received a $2 billion loan package from Russia.
Some progress on the Afghan war front. U.S. military officials indicate they're winning hearts and minds as they clear militants out of some communities there. The assessment coming in the latest news briefing from Afghanistan. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COL. SCOTT SPELLMON, CMDR, TASK FORCE WARRIOR: The people are incredibly thankful, and the common theme that we hear is thank you, the thugs are gone, and we are ready to move forward in our community. So that is the general reaction that we do receive, because they know -- the people understand that with improved security around their homes that more development opportunities will come.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right, let's talk. Real talk now. A strictly military solution to terrorism is doomed to fail. That's according to my next guest. You all know him. He's Dr. Deepak Chopra, a world leader in the field of mind-body medicine. He joins me now from New York. Thank you, sir. How are you doing?
DR. DEEPAK CHOPRA, MIND-BODY MEDICINE EXPERT: I'm very well, Don. Thank you.
LEMON: OK, thank you. It's good to see you. You know, I was reading your op-ed piece, and, you know, you're usually not a controversial figure. You do speak your mind, but you say in this, we should not hunt down Osama bin Laden, that it would be worse for us than better. Why do you say that?
CHOPRA: You know, I think it's time to recognize that the Taliban probably is now regretting giving refuge to Osama bin Laden and to al Qaeda. They're two separate organizations. Taliban is regional. Al Qaeda is global.
And if we start to engage with the Taliban now in the way that President Obama is indicating a dialogue with everybody at the moment, and we know he's sincere, we know he is recognizing that inflicting mechanized death and just raining the people with bombs is not working.
The Afghan people will not be subdued. Alexander the Great tried it, Genghis Khan tried it, the British tried it. Most recently the Soviet Union tried it. It's time to find creative solutions, and in fact, having given refuge to Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, Taliban and the Afghan people have suffered a lot.
LEMON: You said the Taliban can actually hunt him down for us. What do you mean by that?
CHOPRA: In fact, well, the Taliban have given refuge to him, and as a result, a lot of suffering has been inflicted on them. When they recognize that President Obama is actually serious about finding a creative solution that includes uplifting the conditions of the Afghan people, winning hearts and minds, they would probably cooperate with us in handing over Osama bin Laden and getting rid of al Qaeda, which has now become a curse for them.
OK. I have a quote from your piece here. It says, "Although terrorism is a tactic, what lies behind it is an idea, and once an idea seeps into people's brains, bombs and mortar attacks won't defeat it." So no matter how much we bomb people, no matter how much we fight, you don't think it will change anything.
CHOPRA: You can kill a terrorist, but you cannot kill the ideology, the ideas that fuel that activity of the terrorists.
LEMON: So, you have to meet at the table and talk about it.
CHOPRA: And actually give a better idea. You know, we brought down the Soviet Union, not through arms, but because they found that our system was much more attractive to them.
LEMON: OK, OK, Mr. Chopra. There are a couple things that I want to get to. Also, you said, "If now-President Obama insists on troop build-ups and promised to hunt down bin Laden, we must all recognize that a country should not pursue two contradictory ideas at the same time: one that terrorism is stateless, and two that military for rays into foreign states is productive." That's a misconception.
CHOPRA: Yes. Because we are sending them two contradictory messages if we do that. But I don't think President Obama is doing that. He is following the intelligent principles for solving this problem creatively. Speaking with respect, recognizing that both sides feel injustice...
LEMON: OK.
CHOPRA: ... giving room for forgiveness. Not being belligerent. You know, we were so belligerent in the last eight years, that it only increased hostility. He's recognizing that other people can have moral values, have different values. He is using the principles of emotional intelligence. He's not trying to prove anybody wrong.
LEMON: Mr. Chopra, I'm running...
CHOPRA: And so, he's doing all the right things.
LEMON: ... I'm running out of time here, really five seconds. But you said you felt his sincerity in that prayer breakfast this morning, almost giving a prayer himself with what you were just talking about.
CHOPRA: Yes. The President Obama is being creative, conciliatory and respectful. And that's what counts. And sincere.
LEMON: Deepak Chopra, we always appreciate it. Thank you. Enjoy your day, sir.
CHOPRA: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: The economic downturn, many of you are living it and sharing your stories through iReports.
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LEMON: All right. You're looking live -- live pictures of the Capitol. Also looking at Max Baucus. He is speaking, talking about -- they're debating that stimulus package, and also looking at Elizabeth Warren. They're meeting on -- she is at the Senate banking committee, meeting to hammer out safeguards oversight for the rest of cash. We're going to listen into the Senate meeting for just a little bit. You guys want to pause here and take a listen?
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SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D), MONTANA: ... so that banks start to loan money. They start to loan money to credit-worthy borrowers. That's one challenge here, and that's the reason for all of these programs called TARP and so on and so forth. And we can debate whether they're perfect -- they're probably not perfect -- but that is a part of the solution here is do what we can get to get banks to unfreeze the credit markets. Another component is housing. LEMON: We're going to get back to that in just a minute, but we're going to go to Joe Lieberman, just out of that Senate committee meeting. And he is speaking. Let's take a listen.
SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (I), CONNECTICUT: As simply as I can, we're trying to get up to a number that's high enough to really work and also respond to some of the concerns around the table that some of the components are not what will work best. And that's what our staffs are going to work on now.
QUESTION: Senator, can you give us a sense of where you are in terms of spending, specifically the spending that you've agreed or close to agreeing on taking out of this $900 billion bill?
LIEBERMAN: Well, I just dropped it, right now.
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QUESTION: We'll get it for you.
LIEBERMAN: Right now, we didn't get to the -- we -- as you know, the Democrats here have been working on cuts in this program. And we didn't -- we vet that list. Our staffs are going to be working on it now. But the discussion took the other turn that I've just described, and I think it's a very constructive term, which is, let's get this to a level that the president says he needs, that we -- that the economists say we need to get the economy going again and create jobs. If you, our colleagues, don't think what the bill on the floor now spends money on will really work, then within that top-line number, give us some other ideas.
LEMON: As you can see, a lot going on today on Capitol Hill. Really, a bunch of things. So I'm in the middle. You see the Capitol there on the left. On the right, you see Mr. Baucus, he is speaking at a meeting, Max Baucus from Montana, speaking at a meeting that senators are having right now.
And also on the bottom of your screen, you're looking at the Senate Banking Committee trying to hammer out safeguards for oversight for the rest of the cash that has to do with that $700 billion bailout plan. And then the bottom left of your screen, Joe Lieberman from Connecticut talking about the safeguards they're trying to make as well, what they're trying to put in and take out of that stimulus plan.
We hope it all works out and works out soon. So much is going on. They're weighing in. Even our i-reporters are weighing in, coming up with creative ideas to cope with these tough, tough times that are happening right now.
Let's take a trip to CNN.com's iReport desk and check in, check in with one of the guys helping run things down there, iReport operation producer Tyson Wheatley. Hello, Tyson Wheatley. Ahh, the argyle is back, Tyson. All is well with the world.
TYSON WHEATLEY, PRODUCER, CNN.COM: Yes. I do what I can. So, you know, all this year we've been asking our community to share these survivor stories, we call them. Tell us the ways that you are dealing in the -- and coping in these tough economic times. And we've been hearing so many great stories. They're incredibly moving, and I'm just going to share a few with you today.
Let's start with Maria O'Brien of northern Virginia. You know, her family had three mortgage payments, two homes and her husband was having basically no luck as a construction contractor. So, in order to survive, this stay-at-home mom began getting up at 5 a.m. every morning while the kids were still asleep and started writing online articles for how-to Web sites like eHow.com. Now she's bringing in an extra grand every week for her family and has found great fulfillment in her new role.
And moving on to Leah Bird and her husband. They moved from a nice West Hollywood home to a trailer, this trailer right here on her in-laws' form in Roseburg, Oregon. They moved after her husband was laid off from her high-paying job. Now they're both looking for jobs.
But in the meantime, you've heard of the phrase "when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade." Well, they're learning to garden and help out around the farm. And Leah now wants to learn more, basically wants to know how to raise animals and might even start learning how to make wine there.
And last but certainly not least, Stephanie Williams from Huntington Beach, California, she sent in photos of her husband's granite and marble fabrication shop. Her husband, Andrew (ph), opened the shop back in 1995 when the granite business was booming. But work's basically slumped, and so while he's out there working seven days a week on remodeling jobs, Stephanie is going back to school to become a paralegal to help out.
And like so many parents in this situation, they have to tag-team taking care of two kids. And as a result, they don't see much of each other. And Don, this is not uncommon. This is a story we're hearing over an over again. And so, we're inviting our viewers today and for the rest of this, you know, economic downturn to tell us, how are you surviving in this tough economy?
LEMON: Yes, and you know, we appreciate hearing directly from our viewers, Tyson. What you guys do down there with CNN.com and inviting, you know, our viewers in is really a good thing, and we appreciate it. Thank you so much.
WHEATLEY: Thank you.
LEMON: We'll see you tomorrow.
WHEATLEY: OK, take care.
LEMON: OK. Let's talk about something that the guy who usually sits here is doing. He'll be back tomorrow, by the way. Tony Harris has this next story. It's about smart college kids, and they are brainstorming solutions of their own. Our Tony Harris heads back to class to hear what the coeds have to say about that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we do this economic stimulus right and actually invest in infrastructure, new forms of transportation and new forms of energy and actually create new markets and help support these new types of industries, I have a lot of hope that we can come out of this stronger than we were before.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're taught to reach for the sky and that we can reach all these things that we want to do. We want to be doctors and lawyers, and all these things cost more money, you know? Basically. So, should we have cheaper dreams and goals? Because, frankly, I'm scared.
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LEMON: A lot of people are scared. You can hear more of these kids' stories tomorrow. Tony will bring you "Class in Session," the college version. Tony will be back tomorrow from a much-needed vacation. That's Friday starting at 11 p.m. Eastern, 11 to 1. Tony Harris.
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ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: That wraps up this hour of the CNN NEWSROOM. Much more news, weather and information coming up at the top of the hour.
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