Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Economic Recovery Plan; Bail Ex-Officer; Zimbabwe Cholera; Predicting Financial Futures

Aired February 07, 2009 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: All right, all eyes are on Capitol Hill. This hour, senators are getting ready for the big economic recovery plan. They worked late into the night hammering out a compromise. Congressional sources tell CNN's Brianna Keilar the bill has been whittled down to $780 billion, still in it: Pell Grants for low-income students, also money for energy-efficient federal buildings and other education grants.

So what's out: $25 billion for a general education fund, $16 billion for school construction and $122 million for cutters and ice breakers for the U.S. Coast guard.

Congressional correspondent, Brianna Keilar, is on the hill for this rare Saturday session. CNN's Elaine Quijano is keeping her ear on the ground at the White House, there.

First to you, Brianna, 60 votes needed to pass the measure. Are they there?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Democratic leaders certainly feel that they are and obviously, the vote hasn't taken place, Fred. It's not expected to come until Tuesday, at the earliest, the final vote on this. We could also see -- or we are going to be seeing a vote on Monday on this compromise.

But this compromise is really seen as the major hurdle to be cleared, here in the Senate. Obviously, there is still debate going on, but keep in mind, and you can see there on the Senate floor, there's a prayer and they're beginning to start things up now, but there were some amendments still in the pipeline. You can almost boil it down, almost to Housekeeping and that the Senate couldn't just get straight on into a vote.

But, this is something that really didn't come easy. This took days. All week long you had Democrats and Republicans, a small group, mainly Democrats, a handful of Republicans, talking how they can pare down this plan. What they did in the end was basically give it a $100 billion haircut in an effort that was spearheaded by Republican of Maine, Susan Collins, and Ben Nelson, Democrat of Nebraska. This is what they said last night after the compromise was reached.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: The American people don't want to see partisan gridlock. They don't want to see us divided and fighting. They want to see us working together to solve the most important crisis facing our country. That is what we have done. That is why we have presented this compromise.

SEN BEN NELSON (D), NEBRASKA: If we ask taxpayers to support it as we are, they deserve to get the biggest bang for their buck. The remaining plan will generate new jobs, save jobs and expand job opportunities all across America as it also boosts our economy. We recognize that our plan isn't perfect, but I believe it's both responsible and realistic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Democratic leaders in the Senate are confident enough that this deal will hold and this will mean that a vote will go through that there will be those 60 votes that actually Democratic staffers, between the House and the Senate, are hashing out their differences already on this, ahead of this expected vote on Tuesday, that's according to the Democratic leadership aide in the Senate.

But make no mistake about it, Fred, there is only a few Republicans who are onboard. The vast majority of Republicans, very much against this bill, and as we see this next three hours of debate, here, we're really expecting to hear from them making noise about why they don't like this bill.

WHITFIELD: All right, Brianna, thanks so much. We know we'll be checking in with you throughout the day. Thanks so much, appreciate it.

All right, so this bill is at the heart of President Obama's plan to reverse the recession and he wants something on his desk by not now, the end of this week, but now by the end of next week, Friday.

Elaine Quijano, so how do folks at the White House like the chances? We know he also met with Ben Nelson and Miss Collins, two of the lawmakers we just heard from in Brianna's piece. Any real progress, here?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, the White House is certainly hopeful and right now their officials here are saying they're pleased certainly by the way the process has moved forward so far, but all of this is happening, we have to keep in mind, against a backdrop of more bad economic news.

Of course, it was just yesterday that we learned that the unemployment level is now a whopping 7.6 percent. President Obama said that any further delay by Congress would be inexcusable and irresponsible and in his weekly address the president once again pressed the need for lawmakers to act immediately.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: Because, if we don't move swiftly to put this plan in motion, our economic crisis could become a national catastrophe. Millions of Americans will lose their jobs, their homes and their health care. Millions more will have to put their dreams on hold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now, as you noted, President Obama wants to have a bill on his desk in about a week's time and to help sell this plan, he's actually going to be hitting the road, Fredricka, he's going to be visiting two communities very hard hit in this economic downturn, Elkhart, Indiana and Fort Myers, Florida, both of them have seen soaring unemployment rates.

Elkhart, Indiana, in particular, now 15.3 percent unemployment rate and Fort Myers, Florida, a 10 percent unemployment rate. Mr. Obama will head to those communities to have a town hall meeting and again, press the need for lawmakers to deliver something to his desk, quickly -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: It's almost as if he's campaigning again, but this time maybe campaigning for the stimulus package. He's kind of comparing notes, is he, in Indiana and Florida to see if what's in the bill matches what the needs of the people in those states are.

QUIJANO: Yeah, he's going make the case, basically, that in these communities that are representative, he will likely argue of what the situation, perhaps not as severe, but what the situation certainly might look like in other communities around the nation that, look, lawmakers that are hung up on particular issues within this stimulus bill, who nitpicking on one or two things, really cannot afford -- that the American people really cannot afford for there to be this partisan gridlock.

So, he's going to try and basically ratchet up the pressure on these lawmakers and most likely will be pointing to some real-world examples of people who have some very difficult stories to tell about how this economic downturn has played out in their own lives.

WHITFIELD: All right, Elaine Quijano, thanks so much for keeping us posted there from the White House, appreciate it.

All right, well, the new head of the Republican National Committee is also weighing in on the stimulus debate. Michael Steele says a lot of the money outlined in the massive plan is going to the wrong place.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL STEEL, RNC CHAIRMAN: Democrats have controlled both branches of government for less than a month and you have to wonder if all this power has gone to their heads.

For the last two weeks they've been trying to force a massive spending bill through Congress under the guise of economic relief. All of us, Republicans and Democrats agree the government must act to kick-start the American economy. American families are doing their best to balance their own budgets and pay their mortgages.

The fastest way to help those families is by letting them keep more of the money they earn. Individual empowerment, that's how you stimulate the economy. But the Democrats have a different philosophy. Instead of leaving money in the family checkbook they want to send it to Washington, run it through a slow and inefficient government and hope that does some good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, Michael Steele, that was his first address as the chairman of the GOP.

All right, this developing story that we continue to follow this morning. A former transit officer charged with murdering an unarmed man on New Year's Day, is out on bail, a $3 million bail. Yesterday dozens of demonstrators gathered in downtown Oakland to protest Johannes Mehserle's release. County officials say they don't know who put up the bail.

Video taken by a bystander showed the then officer pulling his gun and fatally shooting Oscar Grant in the back as another officer kneeled on him. The ex-officer's attorney says he may have intended to fire his taser, but instead pulled his gun.

A state of emergency and a new city wide curfew haven't stopped a firebug in Coatesville, Pennsylvania, as the area in and around the Philadelphia suburb grapples with its 23rd case of arson since New Year's Day. No one was hurt in last night's blaze at a mobile home. State officials have given Coatesville half a million dollars in arson relief. A reward has been increased to $20,000, but still no arrest.

And check out this video coming out of Hawthorne, California. Early reports say a car flipped off a bridge and rid into a home, right there. You can see how badly mangled the car was and at this point there is an unconfirmed report of one death.

And things are starting to get back to normal, whatever normal is these days, in Kentucky. Only about 100,000 people are still without power, that's down from more than 700,000 people. The storms are blamed for 55 deaths, nationwide, 28 in Kentucky.

President Barack Obama declared the state a disaster area earlier this week. New Homeland Security secretary, Janet Politano (sic) will visit the area next week to evaluate the federal response.

Let's check in with our Reynolds Wolf for the weather.

You know, I say normal, but these days freezing temperatures have become the norm for Kentucky.

REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Absolutely. Except for today. Things are really different.

WHITFIELD: Oh, good.

(WEATHER REPORT)

WHITFIELD: Yeah, and what an about face here in Atlanta. I mean, the other day, we were bundled up in parkas, et cetera, yesterday, in fact, last night, I saw someone with their convertible top down. I mean, it's warmer, but it's not that warm.

WOLF: That's when I'm saying. Maybe we shouldn't talk about it too much because if we do, it's apt to change. Again.

WHITFIELD: I know. And it won't come back.

WOLF: Precisely.

WHITFIELD: It's still winter, after all. All right, thanks so much, Reynolds. Appreciate it.

All right, well one of baseball's best known players is now in the middle of his own steroid scandal. SportsIllustrated.com is reporting today that Alex Rodriguez tested positive for steroids back in 2003. Rodriguez was the American league's most valuable player for the Texas Rangers that year. He is now with the New York Yankees and is the highest paid player in the game. Sources tell "Sports Illustrated" that more than 100 players actually tested positive that year. Well, we're asking our legal expert, Avery Friedman, whether a legal fight is about to be pitched.

And wildfires out of control causing deaths and destruction in Australia. Also, children in danger, fake drugs flooding the market with deadly consequences.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, live pictures right now. That's Capitol Hill and Senator Jon Kyl, right now, taking to the floor there in a rare Saturday session. These senators are committed to commit about three hours today trying to nail down some sort of compromise stimulus bill.

So, far as a result of a late-night meeting last night, they whittled it down by about $100 billion, but they're not finished yet. A number of things that they have gutted, others that they have decided to keep, but the president says he wants to see something on his desk by the end of next week. We'll see if they're able to make that kind of progress today in order to meet those needs.

All right, I want you to perhaps check out this out of Australia now, where authorities are battling fires, as many as 30 wildfires, a scenario that they're calling the worst in a quarter of a century. Thick plumes of smoke filled much of the southern Australia sky, 14 people have already died. Officials are warning residents to stay inside as crews try to extinguish this string of fires. An estimated 30,000 acres have already been charred.

And in Lagos, Nigeria, health officials are searching for bottles of a domestically produced teething formula. Why? They're suspected in the deaths of 84 infants and children. The nation's health ministry believes the sweet-tasting syrup actually contains a chemical often found in antifreeze. Several company executives are already in police custody. It's uncertain how much formula remains on the store shelves.

And the United Nations has plans to get humanitarian officials on the ground in Zimbabwe. They'll investigate a cholera outbreak blamed for killing 3,300 people and sickening as many as 65,000. Longtime ruler, Robert Mugabe, has blamed Western nations for creating the health crisis. But Mugabe opponents say the cholera epidemic explains the breakdown of basic government services. The U.N. delegation is set to arrive in Zimbabwe in two weeks.

A new administration, a new foreign policy and a corresponding new tone. The three big bullet points of Vice President Joe Biden's first major speech, as America's second in command. Biden addressed the Munich Security Council, earlier this morning. He sounded cons ilator at times regarding Russia, but he was stern on Iran when it comes to their nuclear ambition.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), US VICE PRESIDENT: Our administration is reviewing our policy toward Iran, but this much is clear, we will be willing to talk. We'll be willing to talk to Iran and to offer a very clear choice: Continue down the current course and there will be continued pressure and isolation. Abandon the elicit nuclear program, and your support for terrorism and there will be meaningful incentives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The vice president also reiterated the administration's plan to close Guantanamo Bay and he asked America's allies for their help.

And new information on one of the country's largest recalls. When did a peanut plant know about the possibility of salmonella and did health officials move too slowly in shutting it down?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, seems like we get new jobless claims or word of another company laying off workers just about every week and the numbers are staggering. Our Josh Levs breaks down the latest unemployment figures.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK, so you've heard the big picture. I want to give you some key statistics that the government has just released.

Start off with this, the number of unemployed people in America now, 11.6 million. That's when you include the number of people who are not collecting unemployment benefits, and that figure is up 4.1 million just over the past year. It's a huge jump.

Now, I want to show you the difference between men and women on this list. It's an interesting breakdown. Look, for men, 7.6 percent unemployment. But for women, it's at 6.2 percent.

And in fact, one thing you might not have heard is there are actually a couple of fields that gained jobs in January, health care and also private education. Now, those are two sectors in which there are a lot of jobs for women. One of the worst hit sectors is one that favors men, and that's construction.

And one more thing I want to show you here that's very interesting in the government's latest report, and that is a breakdown by race. And you'll see some maybe surprising statistics here, Whites 6.9 percent unemployment, but for blacks, 12.6 percent. Hispanics in America, unemployment, 9.7 percent, Asians 6.2 percent.

And you can get a lot more information about all of this right here at CNNMoney.com.

Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right, pretty grim numbers, there.

All right, a well-known business tycoon is now weighing in on all of this. He says the U.S. has gone beyond a recession and is in a depression. That bleak assessment from Donald Trump. He weighed in during a call to CNN's LARRY KING LIVE. And among his comments, Washington needs quick action on a stimulus bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KING, LARRY KING LIVE: If you were in the Senate would you vote for the stimulus plan?

DONALD TRUMP, BUSINESS TYCOON: Well, I'd vote for a stimulus plan I'm not sure that all of the things in there are appropriate. Some of the little toys that they have are not really appropriate, they're a little surprising that they seem to want it because the publicity on it's been terrible, but I would certainly vote for a stimulus, but I would really vote for banks having to loan out the money because they're not doing that, Larry.

KING: In your adult career, have you ever seen it worse?

TRUMP: No, this is the worst ever. This is the worst I've ever seen -- 1990 was a bad period of time, but this is far worse and this is worse on a really global basis. You look -- I was watching a little while ago some of the shows and I'm looking at different countries, every county -- now, they're blaming us because of what happened. You know, why not blame the United States. But every country is in trouble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, well King also asked about the plan to set executive pay limits and Trump says he absolutely agrees that salaries and bonuses need to be trimmed when taxpayer money is keeping a company in business.

All right, tough times are prompting people to seek financial advice in rather unusual places. Some even looking to celestial bodies. Our Brooke Baldwin explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAXINE TAYLOR, ASTROLOGER: The best part is that the money is coming, so you can exhale.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Maxine Taylor talks finances with clients almost every day, but you won't find stock portfolios or balance sheets, here. Maxine's method is more celestial.

TAYLOR: Jupiter is crossing into your second house of money. Jupiter is abundance.

BALDWIN: Maxine Taylor is a licensed astrologer studying the effect of stars and planets' position on everyday life.

TAYLOR: So, I began studying astrology in 1966.

BALDWIN: Ever since, the economy started slipping, she's seen a rise in clients' concerns over cash.

TAYLOR: You can feel the energy. They're frightened. They're worried.

BALDWIN: Lisa Paparella-Lee and Brett Nadel are long-time customers. Lisa runs a multi-million dollar food distribution company, and Brett is a chiropractor with three businesses to oversee. Both of them trust Maxine to predict their financial fortune.

TAYLOR: It may be tight this month and then again in August.

LISA PAPARELA-LEE, FOOD SERVICE BUSINESS OWNER: Do you see me selling the business, do you see me keeping the business?

BALDWIN: They're major life questions.

DR. BRETT NADEL, CHIROPRACTOR: I'm thinking about some kind of marketing campaign or some type of expansion. Should I launch a new program now? I always talk to her about that.

TAYLOR: Plenty of pressure from this planetary prognosticator.

BALDWIN (on camera): Have you ever been wrong?

TAYLOR: Yes.

BALDWIN (voice-over): Only once, according to Maxine, and that was an accident. She says she tells it like it is. And in her 42- year career, so far, so good.

TAYLOR: I don't say things like, "oh, my God, I don't tell you how to tell you this, but..." I will guide them through what they need lovingly and positively.

BALDWIN (on camera): When you come in, what do you say to naysayers who say, you're sitting here, you're asking about you're multimillion- dollar business, and you're looking at some stars?

PAPARELA-LEE: Well, you know, I'm very intuitive, so I kind of get that. I know what I know, and I just kind of go with what works for me and it does work for me.

BALDWIN (voice-over): And for the rest of us looking for economic advice...

TAYLOR: We are going to be having help with the economy this summer.

BALDWIN: That's one prediction that might convince even the nonbelievers to watch for the planets and the stars to align.

Brooke Baldwin, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And in our immediate future, here in the NEWSROOM, a new priority for the military, helping troops and their families survive the economic crisis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, happening right now. You're looking at live pictures right now on Capitol Hill. Senator John Kerry among those trying to make their strongest arguments possible about what to cut and what to keep as it pertains to the stimulus bill. We know that the senators worked well into the night last night trying to make some amendments. Roughly about $100 billion has been trimmed from this $920 billion stimulus plan. The president says he wants to see something on his desk by the end of next week and possibly a vote may be coming up soon on this.

Meantime, a planned protest by civil rights advocate Al Sharpton outside Bernard Madoff's apartment building. Sharpton says the Madoff case illustrates the inequities of the American justice system. Madoff is under house arrest, accused of orchestrating a $50 billion Ponzi scheme. Sharpton argues minorities are often jailed and refused bond on far lesser charges.

All right, back now to talk of the stimulus plan. The president is pushing for swift passage of the stimulus bill. In his weekly address, as if to underscore the urgency with which Congress should act, Mr. Obama talked about the latest job losses, nearly 600,000 in January alone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: From the beginning, this recovery plan has had at its core a simple idea. Let's put Americans to work doing the work America needs done. It will save or create more than 3 million jobs over the next two years, all across the country. 16,000 in Maine, nearly 80,000 in Indiana, almost all of them in the private sector and all of them jobs that help us recover today and prosper tomorrow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The president says the stimulus plan is a down payment to ensure the American dream lives on for generations.

Michael Steele, the new head of the Republican National Committee disagrees. He says there's too much political pork in the stimulus plan and no matter how you fry it, it won't create jobs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL STEELE, RNC CHAIRMAN: Democrats in Congress want a $1 trillion spending bill. You've heard about the pork barrel programs they want to fund. $45 million for ATV trails and removal of fish passage barriers is one that caught my eye. Exactly what is a fish passage barrier and why does it cost $45 million to stimulate the economy with it? That's why Republicans in the House voted against uncontrolled spending.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Steele adds that the fastest way to help hurting families is to let them keep more of the money that they earn.

All right, a new priority for the military -- it's now providing survival tips and tools to help troops and their families cope with the economic crisis.

Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Here at Fort Belvoir, Virginia, troops and their families aren't just waiting for President Obama to fix the economy. They've turned up determined to learn how to better manage their own finances.

24-year-old Private Eric Ingram lost his job at Circuit City when it went out of business. Now, his only income, a part-time National Guard paycheck.

PVT. ERIC INGRAM, U.S. ARMY: I've gotten used to the living paycheck to paycheck from every previous job I had and I don't want to get into that situation where I have a house and I have something happens, the car breaks down.

STARR: These day-long work shops began late last year at bases around the country when the economy collapsed. Troops and their families say some of their biggest worries, how to handle mounting debt, especially while overseas.

SPEC. SAM HAYES, U.S. ARMY: Because everybody's got debt, from mortgages to car payments to cell phones to anything and what kind of debt is acceptable to have?

STARR: John Meeks is here to explain banking basics. Young soldiers, he says, are especially vulnerable in today's recession to using payday loans and pawn shops to get easy money at a high cost.

JOHN MEEKS, FDIC COMMUNITY RELATIONS: You get a lot of kids who basically are on their own for the first time, they're getting their first paycheck and they're kind of prone to the kind of excesses kids tend to be prone to.

STARR: 21-year-old Private 1st Class Kyle Thomas says what he learned here will help make sure it doesn't happen to him.

PFC KYLE THOMAS, U.S. ARMY: I just want to make sure that I save money and when it comes to that time, have a good financial plan.

STARR (on camera): The military began this program in response to the economic downturn to help troops and their families, but it's now been so successful that they plan to continue it at military bases around the country for months to come.

Barbara Starr, CNN, Fort Belvoir, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And now, trouble under the big top. The famous Ringling Brothers Circus in court, facing allegations over the treatment of some of their star attractions.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, baseball and some star players are topping our legal docket today. Avery Friedman is a civil rights attorney and law professor joining me today. Richard Herman a little under the weather, not with us. Our thoughts are with him. So, it's you and me, mano a mano.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Yes, we're ready to roll. Let's go.

WHITFIELD: All right, well, let's talk about Alex Rodriguez. Now, we hear that SportsIllustrated.com has broken the story that he tested positive for steroids back in 2003. He's played for the Texas Rangers now, he's a big New York Yankees player. Is this a legal battle in the making? It's not like he has been on Capitol Hill testifying like we've seen some other players.

FRIEDMAN: Right, right.

WHITFIELD: So, what kind of case would there be built against him?

FRIEDMAN: Well, right now, Fredricka, we don't know anything. We have four anonymous sources coming out of Sports Illustrated. We don't know, but if it is, the question is whether Alex Rodriguez is going to be called before a federal grand jury. Let me tell you one thing for sure. The visibility about steroid use in major league baseball is not doing Barry Bonds any good. His trial, Fredricka, is starting up in three weeks. This is not doing him any good.

WHITFIELD: Yes, except that when we talk about Barry Bonds, a possible reprieve for him, right, because a federal judge has said that there was some evidence that prosecutors wanted to use in the form of records showing that Bonds ...

FRIEDMAN: Yes.

WHITFIELD: ...tested positive three times, but now that judge is saying forget it. It's out. Why?

FRIEDMAN: Yes, U.S. District Judge Susan Illston, who's the federal district judge in San Francisco presiding over this case is saying, you know what? If the U.S. attorney wants to use it, they have to connect the doping records with urine samples. And the fact is the only way they can connect that is through Barry Bonds' personal trainer Greg Anderson. The problem is Greg Anderson refuses to testify.

WHITFIELD: Interesting. So now, we do have a personal trainer involved in the Roger Clemens case ...

FRIEDMAN: Yes.

WHITFIELD: ...where apparently the personal trainer says I have Roger Clemens' blood in a syringe because I actually helped administer this performance-enhancing drug.

FRIEDMAN: Yes.

WHITFIELD: So, would this be sufficient evidence? How do you ascertain whether it's real?

FRIEDMAN: Well, and that -- the missing piece in Barry Bonds, the personal trainer who's not going to testify is the opposite in Roger Clemens' case because Brian McNamee testified under oath, Fredricka, that he injected Roger Clemens 40 times.

And so, I don't know who was directing Roger Clemens to testify under oath before Congress, but you had to know that it was a terrible move because now, you do have evidence unlike what you have in the Barry Bonds case.

WHITFIELD: Boy, dark cloud continues ...

FRIEDMAN: Yes, for sure.

WHITFIELD: ...to hang over professional baseball.

All right, let's talk about the U.S. Supreme Court, Ruth Bader Ginsburg ...

FRIEDMAN: Right.

WHITFIELD: ...all hearts and prayers go out to her on her quick recovery, although she apparently professes to be back at work later on this month after her surgery with pancreatic cancer.

But now, this really weighs heavy for the White House as well because already, the White House has to come up with, what? Some appointments for federal as well as appellate court positions and now, maybe the pressure's on to think a little bit more seriously about filling potentially two, if not one, Supreme Court spots.

FRIEDMAN: Exactly right. We jump from perjury to surgery. That's exactly right and what's happened here is that Ruth Bader Ginsburg, although she's only 5 feet tall, Fredricka, is one of the great ...

WHITFIELD: But she's a powerhouse at 75.

FRIEDMAN: Yes, she is a legal -- she is to gender law as Thurgood Marshall.

WHITFIELD: Or 72. I actually thought she was 75, our graphic here says she's 72. But anyway, powerhouse nonetheless.

FRIEDMAN: Well, whatever she is, she's only 5 feet tall, but she's still a giant and the fact that she is to gender law as I said as Thurgood Marshall was to race. I mean, she is incomparable in terms of American jurisprudence, but the fact is that sooner or later ...

WHITFIELD: Yes.

FRIEDMAN: ...over this next four-year period or eight-year period, we have Justice John Paul Stephens who's going to be 89. She's in her 70s.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

FRIEDMAN: The fact is, Fredricka, there are three women that the White House is actually looking at right now as possible replacements.

WHITFIELD: And are they pretty strong contenders?

FRIEDMAN: The three are extraordinary. Elena Kagan, who President Obama nominated as solicitor general, the dean of Harvard Law School. We also have Sonia Sotomayor, who's a federal appeals judge in New York and Diane Wood, who's a federal appeals judge in Chicago. All three of them are spectacular and you've got to remember, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is the only female sitting on the U.S. Supreme Court right now. So ...

WHITFIELD: That's right.

FRIEDMAN: ...you've got to believe the administration's going to be looking at a woman.

WHITFIELD: OK, let's talk about this last federal case now ...

FRIEDMAN: Right.

WHITFIELD: ...involving Ringling Brothers and you can't say Ringling Brothers and you can't say Ringling Brothers and not think about the elephants ...

FRIEDMAN: Yes.

WHITFIELD: ...Asian elephants, but apparently there's testimony now -- it's been brought to federal court that they are being abused because of these pokers that are used ...

FRIEDMAN: Yes.

WHITFIELD: ...on the most vulnerable part of their bodies, their ears.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

WHITFIELD: And they're using the Endangered Species Act as opposed to regular animal abuse. What's the difference? Why?

FRIEDMAN: Well, the Endangered Species -- actually, I've litigated these cases in federal court. It's in front of U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan. Remember, that was the Scooter Libby judge. Now, he has in court (ph) elephant case and that law actually protects especially certain kind of elephants.

And what's going on right now is we're anticipating a one-month trial under the Federal Endangered Species Act trying to protect elephants from the use of bull hooks by the circus. The circus is arguing, Fredricka ...

WHITFIELD: So, for one month, that means they can't still perform, could they, while this case is under way?

FRIEDMAN: Oh, they absolutely -- you know what? That's very interesting because one of the things that was sought by the animal rights group was an injunction to stop the circus. The federal district judge is not doing that. He's going to hear the evidence ...

WHITFIELD: So, the show will go on.

FRIEDMAN: ...from experts and the show will go on. That's exactly right.

WHITFIELD: Wow! Fantastic and pretty insightful, too. And I imagine though, now that this case is under way and the show stills go on, something tells me that Ringling Brothers can expect, I don't know, protestors or people to be rather outspoken if not in the ring, then outside of the ring.

FRIEDMAN: And you know what? We have seen that, but the showdown is really in that federal courtroom in Washington.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

FRIEDMAN: If the animal rights organization can prove it, Fredricka, it's going to change the whole way we go to circuses. We're not going to see elephants performing ...

WHITFIELD: Yes.

FRIEDMAN: ...the way they perform now.

WHITFIELD: Alll right, Avery, thanks so much. All right, we're still a team. We miss Richard, hopefully, he'll be back with us next weekend. But great job. Thanks so much.

FRIEDMAN: Take care. See you later.

WHITFIELD: All right. Well, who knew what and when? New information on the salmonella outbreak and the massive recall of peanut butter products.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, today is National Black HIV/AIDS Awareness Day and according to the Centers for Disease Control, 64 percent of women living with HIV are African-American. Today is an annual community day aimed at pushing HIV testing in the African-American community. To find events happening in your city, you can go to blackaidsday.org.

All right, new information now in the salmonella outbreak. The Food and Drug Administration says the Peanut Corporation of America shipped products it knew were probably tainted. That's different from earlier reports where the FDA said the company had received second negative tests for their products before shipping.

Also, the Agriculture Department says the government sold potentially tainted products to schools in three states, Idaho, Minnesota and California. The government says they got the products under a government contract with PCA. All of those contracts have since been suspended.

The federal report says PCA knowingly shipped salmonella-laced products as far back as 2007, but the recall didn't start until last month. The plant has been linked to a salmonella outbreak blamed for at least eight deaths and 600 illnesses. It has now grown to one of the nation's largest-ever recalls. The FDA again finds itself at the center of the investigation.

Abbie Boudreau from CNN "SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT" reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ABBIE BOUDREAU, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than four months passed from the time the first case of salmonella was reported last fall to when Minnesota health officials named peanut butter as the culprit in early January.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. It's going to get loud.

BOUDREAU: The FDA is now urging that every product made in this Blakely, Georgia peanut plant dating back to January, 2007 be thrown away. The salmonella outbreak even prompted a remark from President Obama in a recent interview.

OBAMA: At bare minimum, we should be able to count on our government keeping our kids safe when they eat peanut butter.

BOUDREAU: And it's not only kids at risk.

JEFF ALMER, SON OF SHIRLEY ALMER: How do you say good-bye to someone, you know?

BOUDREAU: Jeff Almer didn't think he needed to worry about his 72-year-old mom eating a piece of peanut butter toast.

ALMER: Someone (ph) was going to be home tomorrow for Christmas. You know, it just didn't seem real.

BOUDREAU: Shirley Almer's death is one of eight now linked to the outbreak nationwide. Only after she died did Minnesota health officials start piecing together the puzzle.

ALMER: They said that your mother had a stool sample tested and she tested positive for salmonella. We were just, like, what? How? How could that have happened?

BOUDREAU: National food safety experts tell CNN it happened because the system in place to protect the public from bad food is seriously broken. Experts say in this case, the government failed to regulate the safe production of peanut products from this Blakely, Georgia plant and also failed to rapidly detect the source of the outbreak. So far, more than 500 people have become sick.

WILLIAM HUBBARD, FORMER FDA ASSOC. COMMISSIONER: It's an embarrassment that in the United States, in the 21st century, we have 76 million people getting sick from food-borne contamination each year. 325,000 of them will be hospitalized and 5,000 will die. We are losing the equivalent of the World Trade Center attacks every eight months to food-borne illness.

BOUDREAU: Food safety expert William Hubbard, who testified before the U.S. Senate, says outbreaks like this one highlight the first basic problem. There's virtually nothing in place to stop companies from shipping contaminated food.

HUBBARD: American food processors are able essentially to make anything they want, any way they want and the burden is on the FDA to find the problem and correct it. It should be the other way around in which a food processor is told, you need to prevent contamination of your food before you enter it into the food supply.

BOUDREAU: The second basic problem: not enough federal inspections. According to the FDA, the last time they inspected the Blakely plant was back in 2001. Instead, the FDA relied on the state of Georgia for inspections in 2006, 2007 and 2008, inspections that showed unsanitary practices which the FDA said were somewhat resolved. The company says it paid for private inspections in 2008 that gave the plant, quote, "superior" and "excellent" ratings.

According to the FDA, federal officials depend on manufacturers themselves to safeguard the food they make.

DR. STEPHEN SUNDLOF, FDA SPOKESMAN: More should have been done by this company. Obviously, their sanitary measures were inadequate to prevent salmonella from entering their product and it is the responsibility of the food industry to produce safe food.

BOUDREAU: In this case, food industry critics say the FDA stepped in too late, only after hundreds got sick and people were dying. When federal officials obtained the peanut company's records, the FDA discovered that 12 times in the past two years the company knowingly shipped products that initial tests showed were contaminated with salmonella.

The company denies it shipped out dangerous products, saying follow-up tests showed the products were salmonella-free. The company says, "our top priority has been and will continue to be to ensure the public safety." The company says it's "continuing to work day and night with the FDA and other officials to determine the source of the problem and ensure that it never happens again."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: So, there's more. What did health officials say happened when they first warned the FDA that peanut butter was the likely source for the outbreak and what's being done so that this won't happen again?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, this breaking story we're following out of Ohio near Toledo. We understand that somewhere between 150 to 300 fishermen may be trapped on an ice floe that simply broke away while they were fishing and now, we understand that Lucas County as well as Ottawa County and U.S. Coast Guard officials have dispatched boats as well as helicopters to try to get to these fishermen that are trapped on this ice floe.

We understand that no one has been reported to be injured and no one is in immediate danger. But this story just breaking and of course, when we get new images or information, we'll bring that to you just as soon as we can.

Now, back to more of that health scare that has everyone talking. We just heard how the nation's regulators failed to protect us from salmonella-tainted peanut butter. But once an outbreak is identified, another critical problem faces regulators and consumers: the recall. Critics say the system for recalling food is seriously flawed.

Abbie Boudreau is back with that part of the exclusive report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOUDREAU (voice-over): The recall of peanut butter products that started in mid-January has now grown to one of the nation's largest. Every day, new potentially contaminated products are being added to the long list. You might think the FDA has the power to demand these recalls, but you'd be wrong. It's actually up to the companies involved.

HUBBARD: FDA does not have authority to force a manufacturer who is producing contaminated food to recall it. They can beg them to, but they cannot order them to and that's a flaw in the system.

BOUDREAU: Health officials in Minnesota who helped solve this case say a recall should have happened much sooner. One reason it didn't, they say is because state and federal government agencies involved couldn't agree.

STEPHANIE MEYER, MDH EPIDEMIOLOGIST: It's pretty frustrating when you have cases starting with onsets in September and October and you don't get a recall until January.

BOUDREAU: Health officials here say they told the FDA they suspected peanut butter from the Blakely plant and they asked for the FDA's help.

(on camera): When you contacted the FDA, what did happen?

MEYER: At that point, nothing from their end.

BOUDREAU (voice-over): Meyer says the FDA wanted better evidence. She and other health officials in Minnesota say if the FDA had investigated the Blakely plant sooner, the recalls could have started sooner. FDA officials say they moved as fast as they could given the evidence they had.

But the problems extend beyond the FDA. Health officials in several states tell CNN the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention failed to recognize the source of the outbreak fast enough.

Dr. Michael Osterholm is a former state of Minnesota head epidemiologist.

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: The CDC, literally 11 days after the Minnesota made the peanut butter announcement, were still on conference calls with the states talking about potential chicken. I mean, you know what, that is irresponsible.

BOUDREAU: The CDC first noticed salmonella clusters in November, but because there are no federal standards or mandatory guidelines that states must follow to detect food-borne illnesses, many states had trouble figuring out why people were getting sick.

CDC spokesperson Dr. Robert Tauxe agrees the system is overly complicated, prone to delays and underfunded. DR. ROBERT TAUXE, CDC SPOKESMAN: The reality is that we have 50 different states, each with their own authorities and each with their own processes, and each with their own budgets.

BOUDREAU: And the system failed at one more critical point that today, still bothers Jeff Almer about his mom's death.

ALMER: I even mentioned to my wife Rebecca (ph) that that's got to be my mom and she's, like, oh, no. I'm like it's got to be her. They said she had salmonella, but I don't know why we were not told if it is her.

BOUDREAU: No one in Minnesota told him that his mother was among the first deaths linked to the peanut butter outbreak. He read about it in the newspaper.

ALMER: We really feel cheated. We really do and there's nothing, nothing to bring her back.

BOUDREAU: Abbie Boudreau, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And now, an update on this breaking story we follow out of Ohio. Out of Lake Erie, we understand on an ice floe that's broken away because of the warming temperatures, somewhere between 150 to 500 ice fishermen may be trapped on this ice floe. U.S. Coast Guard as well as some neighboring county authorities are all trying to get their resources in the water and in the air to try to get to these fishermen.

We'll update you throughout the day as information becomes available. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. "YOUR MONEY" starts right now.