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Obama Holds Town Hall in Indiana; Senate Debate Continues Over Stimulus Bill; Hudson Heros Honored; Obama Speeches Sell Out; JObs and Gender; Toxic Toys

Aired February 09, 2009 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

OBAMA: Well, look, I believe that the United States has the most productive workers. We've got the best universities and colleges. We've got the most dynamic, risk-taking economy and innovative economy of any in the world. So we can compete against anybody.

But we've got some problems, both in terms of our failure to invest in what's going to keep us competitive. We underinvest when it comes to energy, we just talked about. Our health care system is broken. And that's a huge cost. A lot of employers who want to stay here find it very difficult to deal with the rising costs of health care for their employees, so fixing health care will actually make us more competitive.

We've got a tax code that is too often skewed to encourage companies to move overseas. We still have laws on the books that give tax breaks to companies that are shipping jobs overseas. And I think it's important for us to give tax breaks to companies that are investing right here in Elkhart and right here in the United States of America.

(APPLAUSE)

Now -- now, having said all that, the single most important factor, I think, in whether or not companies are going to continue to locate here in Elkhart and around the country is, what are we doing about education? Because the quality -- the quality of the workforce is probably what most companies are going to pay the most attention to over time.

There are going to be some companies that just ship jobs overseas because it's low -- it's low value-added work and they don't need skilled labor. And if you don't need skilled labor to make certain things, then you're just going to find the cheapest place, and we're never going to be able to compete against a country like Bangladesh when it comes to, you know, low-wage work.

But what we should be looking for is, how do we encourage high- wage, high-value work? And there, the key is going to be how well we are training our workforce.

That's why, in this recovery and reinvestment package, we put billions of dollars not only to make sure that school districts who are getting hammered are able to keep their teachers, but also we have money in the package to make sure that we are retraining our teachers around math and science so that they are able to provide our young people what they need to compete in this new global economy.

We have money to create new labs so that we've got science labs and the latest Internet connections into our schools so that they are part of this modern economy. We have money to revamp our community colleges which are a tremendous bridge for people who maybe need more training to get these new jobs of the future.

Now, I'll be honest with you. The Senate version cut a lot of these education dollars; I would like to see some of it restored. And over the next few days, as we're having these conversations, we should talk about how we can make sure that we're investing in education, because that's what's going to keep companies investing right here in the United States over the long term.

All right? Now there's a young man right in front of you here who's -- yes, you. In fact, I just -- I just received a note that this is the last question.

Oh, don't be mad at me. I would love to stay here for a long time, but I've got to go back to Washington and convince everybody to get moving on this package.

(APPLAUSE)

And this is a good place to end, with -- with our future here. What's your name?

QUESTION: My name is James.

OBAMA: James, how old are you?

QUESTION: I'm 9 years old.

OBAMA: OK, fantastic. What's your question?

QUESTION: What are you going to do to help our schools?

OBAMA: Well, you know, I just -- I just started talking about that, so, James, as I said, I think that we've got to rebuild our schools to make sure that they're state-of-the-art. We also have to make sure that we are training new teachers and retraining some of the existing teachers so that they've got the best possible skills.

We also are going to have to reform how we do business in some of the schools. I think it's very important for us to have high standards. I think we've got to -- we've got to do a better job, though, of assessing performance in schools. No Child Left Behind needs to be reworked in a more effective way.

(APPLAUSE)

But the last thing that we need in schools -- do with schools has nothing to do with money. It has everything to do with parents, because...

(APPLAUSE) ... because we can put as much money as we want into schools. If parents don't have an attitude that says, "I'm going to make sure my child does my homework, that I'm meeting with the teacher to find out what's going on," if all of us aren't instilling a sense of excellence in our kids, then they're not going to be able to compete. And that means young people like you, you're going to have to -- you're going to have to work a little harder.

(LAUGHTER)

Yes. Thank you, James.

All right, everybody. God bless you. God bless America.

(APPLAUSE)

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: Well, you just heard from President Barack Obama there, going over lawmakers' heads to meet with real-life economic casualties in Elkhart, Indiana. He could have gone just about anywhere, but Elkhart's jobless rate is twice the national average. That's what sparked this trip. It also hasn't been forgotten that candidate Obama campaigned in Elkhart twice last year and actually won that state.

Now, back in Washington, the Senate still getting back to work after one day off with a pivotal vote on the schedule. Stimulus supporters need at least 60 yeas to cut off debate and set up a vote on the package itself some time tomorrow.

Now, tonight, you can also stay with CNN for the first primetime news conference of the Obama presidency. That's at 8 a.m. [SIC] Eastern.

Now, the president has promised his recovery and reinvestment plan, it would not become a wish list for lawmakers' pet projects.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: There are a lot of folks out there who have been saying, "Oh, this is pork and this is money that's going to be wasted and -- et cetera, et cetera." Understand, this bill does not have a single earmark in it, which is unprecedented for a bill of this size.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: As we continue to follow that live picture out of Elkhart, Indiana, Candy Crowley joining me now with a bit of a fact check.

You know, Candy, the president used the words "pork" and "earmarks." Not necessary live the same, are they?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, they're not. And he's perfectly right. There are no earmark, as they fit this kind of fuzzy definition that we have for earmarks, which is basically you can give overall money, say, to the park service. But if you say, "Now this amount of money has to go to build this building, or refurbish this building," that's considered an earmark.

If it goes in during conference committee, and somebody wants a specific project in their home district done under an umbrella's worth of spending, and it doesn't show up in the actual bill itself, that's considered an earmark. So there are none of those.

But where critics of this bill sort of differ, they say, "Well, if you're going to spend $200 million and say it's going to go clean up the Washington Mall, is that going to create jobs? Is that pork? If you want to give a couple, you know, million dollars to the Agriculture Department to spiff up its place and maybe redo how it gets energy into the building, is that an earmark -- you know, is that pork?"

But he's right about there being no earmarks. But I can tell you, the critics would differ about whether or not there's pork in this bill.

PHILLIPS: You know what else, too? And we talked a little bit about this last week with regard to the bill. Let's say the Department of Defense wants a certain amount of money to create jobs. I mean, we know how slow things work within government. I mean, they could get a lot of money to, you know, build barracks or hospitals or whatever within the military circle, but it takes sometimes years to get things built and to employ people.

CROWLEY: Well, absolutely. I mean, you need requisitions. And I mean, it's -- it's the government. And they have ways, and they have to get bids, and they -- you know, they may have people already that are getting a federal paycheck that do that sort of thing. It is a -- it is a complicated process. And it is unclear whether those are jobs in the short term.

But you'll notice that the president always says, "Listen, some of these things are to correct existing problems that we want to do in the medium term. Or when it comes to energy, in the long-term."

So they've sort of always talked about this as -- as a recovery bill. It's not just about creating jobs. It is largely about creating jobs, but -- immediately, but there are some longer-term projects that they believe will turn into jobs, such as environmentally, the so-called green jobs you hear about all the time.

PHILLIPS: As we've been watching the president, I mean, this is the first town hall type of event he's held since becoming president, right? And actually taking Q&A from the crowd.

CROWLEY: Absolutely, yes. Go ahead.

PHILLIPS: Well, I'm saying as we monitor that and see this happening for the first time, I know a lot of polls are out. You know, here we go. We think of monitoring the polls in the past eight years, and boy, did we see those take quite a dive when it came to approval ratings. But you've been monitoring polls on the stimulus package; also Obama and his approval ratings. Is it too soon to look at approval ratings when he's just fresh out of the gates here, pretty much not making any major mistakes at this point?

CROWLEY: Well, you know, it may be too soon, but I'll tell you, with something as important as this stimulus bill out there, it certainly tells you where his power base is. And he's there. And it's the American people.

If we look at these polls, we see that the approval rating for the job he has done so far is at 76 percent. Now, that's -- no president I know would turn that down. It's a pretty standard, maybe a little higher than the general honeymoon period, but in this period, he is doing things that presidents have not had to do in the past. So that's where his power comes from, when he is pushing the stimulus bill.

But when we take that power base, that 76 percent approval rating, it does not translate to the stimulus bill. Only about 54 percent of Americans, which is still a majority, support that stimulus bill. But that's way down from his approval number.

And take a look at these numbers when it comes down to party. And if you believe that partisanship was over, you need to take a look at how the different Democrats, Republicans and independents look at the stimulus bill.

Three quarters of Democrats favor that Senate bill. Only a third of Republicans do, Republican voters. Independents, just about right down the line. So that gives you an idea about how the approval rating of the president doesn't really translate down to the stimulus package. That's one of the reasons he's out there.

Why is he having a little bit of trouble? Why are people so reticent at this point to kind of sign on fully to the stimulus bill? And that's where the next poll number comes in. Because if you ask Americans -- again, according to this CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll, what is wrong with this bill, do you think it is too expensive? Look, 55 percent think this is just too much money spent in the bill.

So I think it identifies what the president's problem is going forward selling this to the American people and, in fact, to conservative Democrats and conservative Republicans. Because obviously, government spending is one of the things that conservatives have been harping on when it comes to this bill, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And quickly, Andy, his next stop, Ft. Myers, Florida. Right?

CROWLEY: Right.

PHILLIPS: And why Ft. Myers? We understand why Elkhart, Indiana, today.

CROWLEY: Right. Ground zero for mortgage foreclosures. Lots of it happening down there. A lot of housing trouble. And that is sort of the next leg of the president's economic recovery plan. And that is to begin to pour some money into the housing market and try to help some of those people who are facing mortgage foreclosures.

PHILLIPS: All right. We'll be tracking it. Candy Crowley, great to see you.

CROWLEY: Good to see you.

PHILLIPS: Well, the economy is expected to be a big part of president Obama's first primetime news conference. It comes your way tonight, 8 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Well, 800 billion is hard to comprehend but we can all understand 60. That's the number of senators -- that's the number of senators, rather, that we're focusing on. And so is our congressional correspondent, Brianna Keilar.

Brianna, what's happening today?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, there is a key test vote today that we're keeping an eye on. It's going to show us if that deal that was struck on Friday night between Democrats, bringing a few Republicans on board, if that's going to hold enough to move this economic stimulus package out of the Senate, ultimately with another vote that we're expecting to come about tomorrow.

The next step after that would be for the House and then Senate to then hash out their differences. Because they would have at that point pointed -- or passed different bills.

So you can see right now, there's debate still going on here for the next few hours. This is Max Baucus, Democrat, who is in favor of this plan. So debate is going to continue here for a little while.

But, you know, in the Senate, Republicans -- or Democrats, they really had to get Republican support by giving up a few things, dropping about $100 billion in spending from this package, including $40 billion for education spending, a big Democratic priority. And they also put some tax cuts on for buying a new car, for buying a home. Some of those things, especially the education spending that was dropped, a bitter pill for Democrats to swallow.

So in this hashing-out process, it may not necessarily be a simple process, an easy process, because some Democrats in the House may be tempted to put some of those things back on.

But I spoke with Susan Collins after the debate on the rare Saturday session, and she said that that could really jeopardize whether or not she ultimately gives this vote her support.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: If the bill comes back from the conference committee with a lot of wasteful spending reinserted, or if it comes back in excess of $800 billion, it will not have my support. So I hope that my colleagues will follow the outlines of the compromise that we negotiated this week. That is important to me. I don't want to see a bloated, overly expensive bill.

KEILAR: And if you do, there could be another standoff.

COLLINS: There could, and that would not be good for our country. We need to get going to help turn the economy around and create jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So again, keep an eye, Kyra, on this test vote happening today at 5:30 Eastern, and then we're going to see that vote tomorrow.

And we just heard Harry Reid, Senate majority leader, on the floor a short time ago, saying no one's going home, no one's going on recess next week until they get a bill to the president's desk.

PHILLIPS: OK. Brianna, thanks so much.

The House and Senate must hammer out a compromised stimulus bill that the president can sign. Which version is better? Well, the Senate bill offers $281 billion in tax cuts. The House, $182 billion.

The Senate provides $283 billion in new government spending, and the House, $360 billion.

Now, in direct payments to you, the Senate hands out $263 billion, the House, $278 billion.

And the total comes to $827 billion for the Senate version, $820 billion for the House.

Hope you all got all those numbers straight. It's hard to keep track of.

Well, Nissan, it's motto is shift the way you move. Now thousands of jobs shifted to the curb.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Nissan is the latest big company to unleash the pink slips. Japan's No. 3 automaker will cut its workforce by 20,000, ordinarily 9 percent. It's unclear how many jobs will be lost in the U.S.

And the company also will halt bonuses for its board of directors and cut board members' salaries by 10 percent until things get better. The company has forecast a net loss of nearly $3 billion in the 2008 fiscal year.

And where you have jobs, you're going to have scenes like this. Hundreds of people lined up in the middle of the night just to get their applications in. This is actually LaGrange, Georgia, a supplier to the nearby Kia automotive plant; has about 400 openings.

And most of the job losses in this economy are in fields traditionally dominated by men. Does this mean that women are gaining financial ground in a bad economy? We're going to talk about it with feminist author Naomi Wolf and also financial journalist Dave Kansas. That's just in a few minutes from now.

On Wall Street, the announcement of a massive overhaul of the bank bailout plan has been delayed by a day, and that's made investors a little bit hesitant. Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange with more on why the treasury secretary is holding off on and what he's likely to say.

Hey, Susan.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kyra.

Yes, there's a lot of -- a lot of attention that's going to be focused on Washington tomorrow; that's for sure. Treasury Secretary Geithner is expected to announce that revamped bailout plan tomorrow, which was originally set for today.

But the Obama administration wants to focus first on the stimulus debate that remains in Congress.

As for TARP, the bank bailout, well, the new plans -- it involves the $350 billion remaining from the first portion you remember, helped out 300 banks. The money was also lent to GM and Chrysler, but that plan came under attack. Lots of -- lots of critics said that it lacked transparency and accountability. Also the fact that it really didn't help out the lending situation.

What we're expecting, what a lot of market observers think is going to happen tomorrow is that there's going to be some sort of partnership with the private sector to purchase the banks' troubled assets, those toxic, toxic securities. But how you get the private sector to buy this stuff, one of the big questions.

Also a lot of folks think that we're going to be seeing another infusion, direct cash injections into banks, and we are seeing financial shares that are spiking on those reports.

Bank of America shares up 13 percent right now. But no movement for the broader averages. The Dow, the NASDAQ and the S&P 500 are flat.

I'm sure a lot of people are asking, "What about me? What about consumer-oriented provisions?" There is supposed to be some attention focused on that. New programs, for instance, to help struggling homeowners. The president wants to set aside up to $100 billion to address the foreclosure crisis, and FDIC chairman Sheila Bair has advocated a plan that would cap mortgage payments at 31 percent of borrowers' gross income and have the government share losses with lenders, should homeowners default. Of course, the housing market remains the root of the financial crisis.

Also under consideration, expansion of a Federal Reserve program designed to jump-start bank lending to consumers, things like student loans, credit-card loans, auto loans. So a lot of details that we're going to hear about, hopefully, tomorrow after this postponement. Kyra, back to you.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Susan.

LISOVICZ: You're welcome.

PHILLIPS: Well, in a New York minute they became heroes. The crew of Flight 1549 honored by the city. Plus, in his own words, pilot "Sully" Sullenberger walks us through the crisis in the cockpit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, howling flames turned the bush lands of southeastern Australia into a nightmare landscape. Take a look at this. Wildfires now blamed for at least 170 deaths, but that number is expected to rise.

Hundreds of Aussie troops are joining the firefighters now, trying to get the blazes under control. Investigators believe that some of the fires were intentionally set. Prime minister says that amounts to mass murder. Thousands of people have been left homeless because of that.

And taking the red eye to Paris may not be possible tonight, because storm winds, some up to 62 miles an hour over northern France, are causing concern. Flights to and from Charles de Gaulle, Orly and La Bourget airports are being canceled for this afternoon and overnight. No flights going out or coming in, which could impact air travel worldwide.

We're keeping a close eye on the weather overseas and also in your neck of the woods. Our meteorologist, Jacqui Jeras, in the CNN weather center for us today.

Hey, Jacqui.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: All right, Jacqui. Thanks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: Cactus 1529 turn right 2-8-0. You can land runway 1 at Teterboro.

CHESLEY "SULLY" SULLENBERGER, CAPTAIN, US AIRWAYS FLIGHT 1549: We can't do it.

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: OK. Which runway would you like at Teterboro?

SULLENBERGER: We're going to be in the Hudson.

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER: I'm sorry. Say again, Cactus.

Cactus 1549, radar contact is lost. You've also got Newark Airport off your 2 o'clock in about seven miles. You'll fly 4-7-18, turn left 2-1-0.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two-one-zero, 47-18. I think he said he was going in the Hudson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: That's right, Flight 1549 did go down in the Hudson. And thanks to that calm, confident, amazingly cool pilot and his crew, everyone on board walked away alive. Today, New York City honored Captain Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger, First Officer Jeffrey Skiles, and the three flight attendants. Mayor Michael Bloomberg presenting each with a key to a very grateful city.

And at the ceremony Captain Sullenberger went out of his way to emphasize this was a team effort all the way. Similar sentiments last night in his interview last night with Katie Couric in "60 Minutes". Here, Captain Sullenberger takes us through those crucial moments after bird strikes disabled both engines

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, CBS "60 MINUTES")

SULLENBERGER: I knew immediately that this, unlike every flight I've had for 42 years, was probably not going to end with the airplane undamaged on the runway. I made the brace for impact announcement in the cabin and immediately through the hardened cockpit door, I heard the flight attendants begin shouting their commands in response to my command to brace. "Heads down, stay down." I could hear them clearly. They were chanting it in unison over and over again to the passengers to warn them and instruct them. And I felt very comforted by that. I knew immediately that they were on the same page. That if I could land the airplane, that they could get them out safely.

KATIE COURIC, HOST, CBS' "60 MINUTES": But there was still a big if.

SULLENBERGER: I was sure I could do it.

COURIC: You were?

SULLENBERGER: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, if there's something you want to know from Captain Sullenberger and his crew, call him tonight on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE" on the air at 9:00 Eastern.

Elkhart economics, can a small city's staggering unemployment spur congress to work together on stimulus? President Obama thinks so.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Elkhart, Indiana, and Washington, D.C. - two fronts in the economic stimulus fight. I'm sure you saw it live here on CNN, President Obama returned to the city that he visited twice in last year's campaign. A city now reeling from more than a 15 percent unemployment rate. His mission? Well, of course, sell the nation and the Congress on the $827 billion recovery and reinvestment plan that's facing a key vote today in the Senate. You can see Senator John McCain there on the floor debating that. And we're going to follow, of course, the outcome. Hopefully a decision soon. We'll bring it to you live.

And if it all goes as well as the White House could possibly expect, that stimulus that lands on the president's desk will still be very different from the one he proposed, but he still thinks it's right on track.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let me be clear. I'm not going to tell you that this bill is perfect. It's coming out of Washington. It's going through Congress.

(LAUGHTER)

You know. Look, it's not perfect. But it is the right size, it is the right scope. Broadly speaking, it has the right priorities to create jobs that will jump start our economy and transform this economy for the 21st century.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And if you need further proof of the Obama mania, check this out. Hundreds of people in Ft. Myers, Florida, have been camping out since Friday, waiting to get tickets for the town hall meeting with President Obama. But get this, the event doesn't even happen until tomorrow. But there's more than endurance than star power apparently.

Chad Oliver of our affiliate WBBH reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHAD OLIVER, WBBH REPORTER: Twenty-four hours from now, President Barack Obama will be here in downtown Ft. Myers. Today, he's in Indiana. Tomorrow, Lee County, Florida, as he takes his message of economic stimulus to the American people, and hundreds will get to hear it in person.

(voice-over): Hundreds camped out at Harborside Event Center in downtown Ft. Myers. Then, at 9:00 a.m. this morning, the payoff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-three and a half hours and I got it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was very much a wait. I came here Friday night.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's ten of us and we all camped out all night. We've been here since 7:30.

OLIVER (on camera): Are you excited about tomorrow? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very excited. We've actually met Michelle Obama and Joe Biden. And so this has been my goal for a long time now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obama buttons, two for $5.00. You got your ticket, now get your button.

OLIVER (voice-over): But most people here did not get tickets. After only 25 minutes, the tickets ran out.

UNIDENTIFIED CROWD (chanting): We want tickets! We want tickets!

OLIVER: All asking the same question.

(on camera): Where are the tickets?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are the tickets?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't even think a hundred people went through that - went through the gate to get tickets, so they couldn't have given out 1,500 tickets.

OLIVER: Obviously, not enough tickets to go around. This event is free and open to the public. And just to give you an idea of the economy here in southwest Florida, this is an area of the country that saw record growth for most of the decade thanks to the housing boom. Now many of those people find themselves without a job; unemployment in Lee County now is at 10 percent.

Reporting in downtown Ft. Myers, Chad Oliver for CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: The economy is expected to be a big part of President Obama's first prime time news conference. It comes your way tonight, 8:00 Eastern. We'll have it for you live right here on CNN.

And if you're in D.C. anytime soon, this is a free must-see. The Library of Congress rolling out its Abraham Lincoln bicentennial exhibit later this week. And it's stuff you rarely get to see. Check this out. The 1861 bible used to swear in Lincoln and President Obama will be on display. Also, drafts of the Emancipation Proclamation and the actual Gettysburg Address. And a few things found in Lincoln's pockets the night that he was shot. Glasses, hanky with his name on it and a wallet with a five dollar Confederate note. The display runs through May; go check it out.

Also, President Obama is compared with Lincoln and all day Thursday, Lincoln's birthday, we're anchoring CNN's network-wide look, "From Lincoln to Obama." That's Thursday starting at 9:00 am Eastern. Soledad O'Brien will kick it off from New York. I'll join you from Springfield, Illinois, where Lincoln lived then, where rests now and where he's still a towering figure in everyday life.

So are women making gains at the expense of men in today's economy? Do the unemployment numbers mean a big shift at work and in American culture? We're going to talk about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Jobs and gender, are the grim unemployment numbers actually adding up to a big bonus for women in the workplace? CNN's Tom Foreman crunches the numbers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Women may soon outnumber men in the workplace. For the first time in American history, about 68 million women are on the job, just under half of the workforce.

Women like Janet Borgeson at this Minneapolis hospital who says many families can't consider mom staying home like she once did.

JANET BORGESON, ABBOTT NORTHWESTERN HOSPITAL: I think it's become less of an option. Everyone I know feels like they have to keep their jobs, and are working very hard to do that.

FOREMAN: In addition, women are catching up because male- dominated industries, such as manufacturing and construction, are being hit very hard in this recession. Men have lost more than three million jobs in the past year. That's 74 percent of all jobs lost. That means more families are relying on women to be the primary breadwinners, and that's difficult.

HEATHER BOUSHEY, CENTER FOR AMERICA PROGRESS: In the typical family where both spouses work, he brings home about two-thirds of the family's income. So, if he loses his job, the family has lost that big chunk of income and are living on one-third of what they had before. It's super tough.

FOREMAN: The shift has been a long time coming. In the early 1940s as World War II began, women made up less than a quarter of the labor force. But as millions of men went to fight, the female share of the job market started growing, bringing new opportunities, new aspirations. It's never really stopped.

JONI REDFERN-HALL, ABBOTT NORTHWESTERN HOSPITAL: I'm better off than my mom was at this age.

FOREMAN: But neither has the soul searching by men and women over precisely what this means to our views about gender, at home and on the job.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: So what does this mean for men and women and our economy? Joining me to talk about it, Naomi Wolf, feminist and author of "Give Me Liberty," and David Kansas, financial journalist and author of, "The Wall Street Journal Guide to the End of Wall Street As We Know It."

Good to see you both. Naomi, why don't I start with you. I mean, doesn't that sort of make sense that women are surpassing men? I mean, men are the ones that for the most part make all the money, right? We get about 80 cents to every dollar a man makes.

NAOMI WOLF, AUTHOR, "GIVE ME LIBERTY": I mean, it would be great if what this meant was that women are finally closing the gap, but unfortunately that's not what this means. What this means is the good-paying jobs with benefits, which are disproportionally jobs held by men, are collapsing. So what's left, what's closing the gap unfortunately is that women are still hanging on to these underpaid, pink-collar, ghetto, low-level, often part-time, and often no healthcare, no benefits kinds of jobs that they've always been shunted into.

PHILLIPS: Pink collar, ghetto - I'm going to remember that phrase. That's a new one for me.

OK, David, so is this about gender and women breaking the glass ceiling all of a sudden or is this just where the ax is falling?

DAVID KANSAS, AUTHOR, "THE WSJ GUIDE TO THE END OF WALL STREET": It's - you know, really it's where the ax is falling right now. If you look - you talked about construction in the piece earlier, but if you look if he finance world, which has been dominated by men, especially hedge funds, there's tremendous amount of devastation happening there. That's a lot of high paying jobs, predominantly men, and those are going away very, very, very quickly. Tens of thousands of jobs lost. So it's the loss of those jobs that is evening things up more than it is the creation of new opportunities.

PHILLIPS: So Naomi, is there any opportunity for women here? Is there a silver lining somewhere within in this or does it need to be more of a psychological power shift?

WOLF: I mean, I hate to be such a downer, but the best you're going to see is that there is going to be, you know, some power shift at home, but it's not the kind as a feminist or as a working mom I would want to see. It's going to be more like in the developing world where there are many parts of the developing world where men are not bringing in the majority of the income and women, you know, get aid or get development and suddenly they have a decision-making power in the home that they didn't used to have.

That's not the way you want to see the genders balance things out. You want people to be able to choose and to make constructive choices and to share and decide, well, whose going to stay home or whose going to help with the house work more. Whose going to - you know, what's right for this family? Unfortunately - and also as we saw, every one of these male jobs that's high paid that's being lost, as Dave pointed out, and as you all pointed out, there's often a family attached to that. So when dad's income collapses, it's not like it's a great boost for mom at home who is now shouldering the burden of being the primary caretaker and also, you know, unfortunately, picking up a lot of the slack at home as well. It's going to be hard on everyone; hard on moms, dads and kids.

PHILLIPS: That's an interesting point, David, because women want to be breadwinners, but at the same time, we all sort of feel this responsibility to still be the caregivers as well.

KANSAS: Yes, and I think that, you know, Naomi points out a great pressure that is evident now with so many jobs being lost. You know, the pressure in the home between the two spouses about whose going to be the breadwinner, who is going to take care of things, as well as who is going to have the time to look for a new job if one of them has lost a job. I mean, if the man had a higher-paying job, the husband, and he comes home and is trying to find work, you know, the idea of it's time to focus on the home now. There's a tremendous amount of tension there as they figure out, hey, what's next for our family.

PHILLIPS: So let me ask you guys this. If we look at World War II, and Tom Foreman sort of mentioned this in this piece, right, we think about when the men went off to war, women filled the job force, we had Rosie the Riveter, and we saw what they could do. Heck, they could rebuild aircraft. Did we go backwards once the guys came back from war and women were forced to go back to low-paying jobs, forced to go back home? It was like, oh, thanks a lot for what you did, but, eh. Because it appears, if you look at the numbers, that that's what happened; Naomi?

WOLF: Well, Kyra, you bring up a really fascinating point. What happened in World War II was completely artificial, but it did show what women were capable of. The government urgently needed women's work because the men were at the front, and so they artificially created this huge injection into the economy. They built these factories and they bombarded women with propaganda to get them into these high-paying jobs.

For the first time in industrialized history women were taking home a paycheck comparable to men's. And it affected them psychologically. They felt empowered, they felt great. They did the job. They did it in a fantastic way. And at the end of the war when men needed those jobs back, there was a with a counterpropaganda drive by the government to put women back if the home and to get them to forget that they'd ever had those opportunities.

We're not going to see the same thing this time around, because, frankly, thank God, absent to major crisis, we're not going to have that injection of an artificial stimulation into the economy. We've got the stimulus bill, but it's not like, you know, needing the armaments and the bombs to fight World War II.

PHILLIPS: David, do you agree with that or do you see us at such a low point right now economically that women have got to be pushed to the forefront and start making as much money as men?

KANSAS: Well, I think what there could be is an opportunity here. As we look to spend more money on infrastructure, as we rebuild the financial system, there's an opportunity to focus on diversity as we rebuild these industries in a way that perhaps we haven't in the past. I think that's the best thing you can think of. But right now, in the center of the storm, I think people are just focused on getting and keeping jobs to help support their family, whether or not they're a husband or wife. PHILLIPS: David Kansas, Naomi Wolf, thanks, guys. Great conversation.

Toxic toys taken off store shelves, but what happens when they turn up in resale shops? We're going to take a look at the new rules and the price of safety.

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PHILLIPS: Well, after a slew of toy recalls last year, new regulations are set to take effect tomorrow. They're supposed to protect your kids, but there could be unintended consequences.

Our Kate Bolduan has the story.

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KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At a time when people are relying more on second-hand stores because of the economy, Maryland thrift store manager Marilyn Seitz is not celebrating.

MARILYN SEITZ, MANAGER, PENNYWORTH THRIFT STORE: I don't want to sell something that's going to put me in jail. So since there's just no way I could go through all this...

BOLDUAN: After a wave of highly publicized tainted toy recalls last year, Congress stepped in passing the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act aimed at protecting children. As part of the law, new federal lead limits take effect Tuesday, banning lead content beyond minute levels, 600 parts per million, in any product for kids 12 and younger. Now it's not only illegal to manufacture lead-laced products, but also illegal to sell them, no matter when they were made. Stores could be fined up to $100,000 per violation.

(on camera): Does this law have the potential of just putting you and many thrift stores out of business?

SEITZ: Yes. Yes. That's the bottom line.

BOLDUAN (voice-over): The National Association of Resale and Thrift Shops claims some of the tens of thousands of second-hand stores across the country are preparing to shut their doors out of fear.

ADELE MYER, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF RESALE AND THRIFT SHOPS: This has gotten so serious and it is so frightening because we serve consumers that sometimes have no other way to clothe their children.

BOLDUAN: The Consumer Product Safety Commission, the agency implementing the sweeping law, acknowledges while well-intended, the new rules are confusing.

JOE MARTYAK, CONSUMER PRODUCT SAFETY COMMISSION: With the economy the way it is right now, we all are concerned about safety, but we don't want to unnecessarily be impacting jobs and businesses. BOLDUAN: The commission is allowing manufacturers an extra year to comply with testing requirements, but can't offer a reprieve for selling restricted products. So, what does that mean for Marilyn Seitz?

(on camera): In the classic between a rock and a hard place.

SEITZ: You're not kidding, right. That's a shame. And I see my customers that really want these things and need these things. You could wipe out a whole industry.

BOLDUAN (voice-over): The law is supposed to protect kids, but Seitz fears her business may become an unintended casualty.

Kate Bolduan, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, Mail carriers across Kentucky are delivering 600,000 flyers today. They're warning storm victims not to eat peanut products that may be in their emergency meal kits. Those kits were recalled. It's feared that they contain peanut products from the Georgia plant linked to the nationwide salmonella outbreak. And there's word today that the FDI is joining the FDA in that investigation. So far, nearly 600 people have gotten sick, eight people have died.

One man's key mistake is a another's key clue. Police get some help in a drug theft from the suspect himself.

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PHILLIPS: Well, they're calling it "Operation Dumb and Dumber." Police near Philly arrest a suspect in a pharmacy robbery and have the suspect himself to thank. Four hundred thousand dollars worth of drugs gone and zero clues until they heard about a car that sat for days with keys stuck in the lock. Well, when the cops popped the trunk, boy, did they find a lot of prescription junk.

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SUPT. MICHAEL CHITWOOD, UPPER DARBY POLICE: He got so whacked out on some of the stuff that he took that he went in the house and passed out for a couple days. And that's why he left the keys in the trunk, because probably would have never found this out.

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PHILLIPS: As the superintendent put it, score one for the police department versus stupidity.

Well a theft over the weekend has Illinois cops wondering maybe the Hamburglar is upgrading. All right, a guy comes home, he notices a broken window. He searches the place, but nothing is disturbed except the kitchen. Apparently a crook busted in, saw a steak thawing on the counter, cooked it, ate it, left it. So far, police don't know very much but they hope they start grilling suspects soon.

The next hour of CNN's NEWSROOM starts right now.