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Interview With New York Congressman Gary Ackerman; Interview With South Carolina Congressman James Clyburn
Aired February 12, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Take a look at this video. It's the real thing. It's one of the most amazing shoot-outs ever captured on tape. And now we are being told there is new information that is coming to us here at CNN on this story.
As a matter of fact, I'm going to be interviewing shortly the authorities there in Arizona who are chasing the four men, some of them actually carrying machine guns when they were fired back at by this homeowner.
Hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
As we get started, we should also let you know that many of you have told us you want to hear from Gary Ackerman, this after he lambasted some of those members of the SEC. He's going to be joining us here in just a little bit as well to answer some of our questions.
But before we do anything else, I want to catch you up on this shoot-out story. First, I want you to look at this report. This is a report that was filed yesterday, so you can take a look at how this happened.
This is David Marino of KVOA.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MARINO, KVOA REPORTER (voice-over): The surveillance video captures it all -- four suspects, armed and dangerous, attempting to invade a Southwest Side home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The victim was able to get back inside his house, close his door, semi-barricade it and reach for a weapon that was easily accessible.
MARINO: That's when you hear gunfire. The four men retreat, get into their car -- but not before the homeowner's bullets hit the windshield. Pima County sheriff's officials say the homeowner has surveillance cameras installed all around his house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that was just for his own home security.
MARINO (on camera): People living in the neighborhood heard all the gunshots and saw the aftermath.
(voice-over): Some stray bullets even hit a home across the street. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I was asleep around noon Thursday. And I heard gunshots. And I heard about four or five more shots go out in rapid succession. Then I heard his car squeal off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am very watchful from where we live. And I think everybody has a right to defend their property.
MARINO: Pima County detectives did find the suspects' vehicle at a home near Cardinal (ph) and Valencia (ph). But the four men are still on the run.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: It's not every day you see something like this. So, we want to check on some of the authorities who are looking into this story.
Joining us now is lieutenant Michael O'Connor with Pima County.
Lieutenant, thanks so much for being with us.
First of all, when you look at that video, one of the things that surprises me, and I'm sure catches the attention of a lot of the other viewers as well, anybody who knows anything about weapons -- Roger, roll that video, if you can, once again -- look at the weapons that those guys are carrying as they come out of a vehicle.
They seem to be some kind of automatic fire. It seems like, I don't know, maybe M-16s, AR-15s. These would be machine guns, wouldn't they?
LIEUTENANT MICHAEL O'CONNOR, PIMA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: Yes, they are. That's what it appears to be to us as well.
SANCHEZ: That's got to be alarming for you. You're looking for these guys and they're out there somewhere with machine guns. Are you worried that these guys will do something like this again?
O'CONNOR: Absolutely.
These are extremely dangerous individuals. We're -- and it seems like we're seeing more and more of this in southern Arizona. When you find these guys, they seem to have total disregard for the place they're attacking and the neighbors that are in the immediate area. It's just a really dangerous situation. And we're seeing more and more of it.
SANCHEZ: All right.
I know there's some news that we have got to get to on this story. And a lot of folks have been following it. And we will look at the pictures as we have this conversation with you.
But was the homeowner -- and as we look at the pictures, it does seem like he fired first. Was the homeowner within his right to do what he did, feeling that he was threatened? O'CONNOR: Absolutely.
He was -- when he was entering his house, he saw these strangers pull up. He saw them exiting their vehicle with masks on, carrying these long rifles, we believe to be an SKS or perhaps an AR-15, and then also handguns. And he knew that this was a very bad situation, just obvious to him that it was.
He immediately retreated into his house, and, as they approached his door that was inside his garage, he fired on them, causing them to stop what they were doing, breaking into his home, and retreat to their vehicle.
He went out to check what had happened, and at that point he saw one of the individuals in the -- near the rear of the vehicle pointing a weapon over the top of the car, and he fired again at that time. So, it's clearly within his rights to defend himself and his home.
SANCHEZ: By the way, a lot of our viewers were already chiming in on this, some of them coming in on MySpace. They have been watching this story over the last 24 hours.
This is somebody who's joining us now. He says, "If this doesn't prove the Second Amendment works, I don't know what will." And obviously he's responding.
Let's go over to Twitter now and somebody responding to the story as well. "You have the right to defend yourself and your property. And that was exactly what was going on."
All right, two comments coming in.
Let me ask you a question. I understand that you have identified one of these men. But you have still not been able to make, or at least come up with any kind of identity on the other three. Has that information moved since last I checked?
O'CONNOR: No, it isn't. It hasn't changed.
We are still looking for Jesus Gabriel Mendivil. He is currently wanted on another aggravated assault charge out of the city of Tucson. And during and prior to this incident, we were actively looking for him, our fugitive investigation strike team, which includes the FBI, the sheriff's department, the city of Tucson, the U.S. Marshals Service, and we were being unable to find him. He was very difficult to locate.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
That's amazing. I'm looking at these pictures, and I can't even imagine seeing something like this. It makes me wonder, though, from covering these kinds of stories for many years in Miami, where, as you know, we had a lot of gangland problems and drug wars literally on the streets like this one, that this might have something to do with narcotics of some sort. And I'm also wondering if these guys could have possibly come from across the border. I don't want to put you in a situation where you need to speculate. But does any of your information that you have so far, as far as your leads, indicate that those things may be true in this case?
O'CONNOR: Yes.
We believe that this is a spillover from Mexico and some of the problems that they're having down there. And one or maybe more of the people that were involved in this attempted home invasion are from south of the border. And so that is something we're looking into. And we believe that there's a very strong possibility that at least one or maybe more of these people we're looking for were from south of the border.
SANCHEZ: One final question. This is one is coming to us from our viewers. One of our viewers wants to know if you're checking on the homeowner himself, if there's anything suspicious, because, as you know, very often, these guys are looking for people who do something similar to what they do.
Are you checking on that?
O'CONNOR: Well, I'm -- yes. And I'm glad to be able to report that, most of the time, very rarely, is there a truly innocent victim that someone's house gets attacked.
And, in this case, I must say that the victim here has some history that would lead us to believe that this isn't just a random act, that they chose his house for one or more reasons that may be to do with his background.
SANCHEZ: Unbelievable.
Lieutenant Michael O'Connor from Pima County, good enough to join us today and share with us the information on this story as it continues.
And if you get new information on the whereabouts of these men, let us know. We will report it right away.
Lieutenant, appreciate it.
O'CONNOR: I will be happy to do that. Thank you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm looking forward to seeing these $30 million rats one day if I can get out to San Francisco, because they must be some fine-looking animals. We don't just spend money like that on any rat. They have got to be...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There are rats in the pork. Huh? And there's a brand- new development on the stimulus package. Now we're hearing that there might be a fly in the ointment. We're going to be telling you what's going on. Again, it's developing information. We're going to be getting that information to you as soon as we come back.
Also, there is incredible video that is coming out of New York. A man is hit by a car, then another car, and he's dragged for 17 miles. And you're going to see it as it happens. This is beyond amazing and sad.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, we have got some developing news that we want to share with you.
We're hearing right now that there may be a fly in the ointment. That's right. It appears now, as far as that stimulus package that we were telling you about yesterday that Republicans and Democrats had come to terms with, well, now the Democrats of upset because some of the appeasements that have been made as far as the Republicans are concerned.
This thing gets more and more interesting all the time.
Joining us now is the third most powerful man in the Democratic Party. Congressman James Clyburn, the party whip, is good enough to join us.
Congressman, we didn't get a chance to talk yesterday. I'm so glad that you're joining us today, sir. Appreciate it.
REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, thank you so much for having me.
SANCHEZ: All right. We understand, according to reports, that there's a problem here, this time so much with Republicans, but with members of your own party.
What's going on, and is this thing in jeopardy?
CLYBURN: Oh, no, no, nothing's in jeopardy. There's no problem at all that I know about.
We have done this bill. We think everything is on target. We look forward to moving this process along, getting something to the president by the end of the week.
SANCHEZ: Then why -- then why -- it was supposed to go into committee today, into both houses, and there was supposed to be some movement. There was supposed to be -- even be an announcement today. And now we're hearing that's not going to happen until tomorrow.
And we're also hearing, sir, that Democrats are -- let me read to you what we're hearing -- Democrats are angry at some of the measures that were given to the Republicans to appease specifically the three Senate Republicans. Is that not true?
CLYBURN: Well, I'm not -- I can't speak for all Democrats. I have not spoken to all 254 or 255 House members on my side.
I have just finished a press conference with the entire Congressional Black Caucus. There was not a single dissenting voice in that group. They're all very upbeat about this legislation. they're very much for it.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me give you...
(CROSSTALK)
CLYBURN: And so there may be others that I don't know about.
SANCHEZ: Well, yes. In fact, here, let me give you one.
This is Tom Harkin of Iowa. He says -- I think we have got the graphic I can put up for you. He says: "I'm not happy with it. You're not looking at a happy camper. They took a lot of stuff out of education. They took it out of health, school construction, and they put it more into tax issues."
Obviously, these are the things that he's concerned about.
CLYBURN: Well, that's true that he may be concerned about that.
You know, I'm not going to say that there is absolutely -- or this thing is 100 percent the way it would be if I had written it. Absolutely not. All I'm saying is that we understand the legislative process. We don't get all that you may wish to have.
But I'm very pleased with that that we have done. If you looked at this legislation in a positive way, then you have got to say, we are far beyond where we were with education, with health care, with tax credits, with tax cuts. All these things are positives.
And, so, though they may not go all the way where I have gone or where Senator Harkin may have gone...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
CLYBURN: we are far beyond where we were.
SANCHEZ: So, you think this thing is going to be done.
Let me ask you a question.
CLYBURN: Yes, sir.
SANCHEZ: There's a lot of questions that are coming in to now from our own viewers. And you know on this show, uniquely, we use our viewers to help guide us through the newscast.
CLYBURN: Sure.
SANCHEZ: So, let's do this. Let's go -- first of all, let's go to Twitter. Somebody has a question for you.
Veritaz wants to know, Representative Clyburn, how long will it take for this plan to actually be implemented?
Have you got an answer for him?
CLYBURN: Yes, sir.
If the president were to sign this bill Saturday, or even tomorrow, I think that there will be some communities that will see the impact by Monday morning.
Who was it? Caterpillar has already said that, if this bill passes, they will be ready to immediately rehire a lot of the people they have laid off. I know of schools, I know of school districts, I know of cities and counties, and states, where people are being furloughed two and three days a month. Those furloughs would come to an end, people that received pink slips that might get torn up immediately when this bill passes.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
CLYBURN: So, for a lot of people, there will be an immediate impact within 48 to 72 hours.
SANCHEZ: Final question.
This comes from Jeremy Rice. Jeremy is joining us now on Facebook. He has a bit of a tougher question for you, if we can say that, Congressman.
He says this: "Considering this crisis, do you feel, sir, like there is a permanent place for government in the market and banks?"
It's an interesting question concerning what we have been talking about in the last couple of days.
(CROSSTALK)
CLYBURN: There's always a place in the -- for government in the market.
Just remember, we got where we were and where we are today because government took a hands-off approach to the market. We ought to have regulators. We have got to have people there to make sure that those people who may not be as honest as they should be are in fact regulated.
We don't have jails for honest people. We have jails for those people who break the rules, who are in fact dishonest. And you have to have an overseer for all of that. So, there is a permanent role for government in all of our lives, no matter what it may be.
SANCHEZ: So, we definitely put you in the Keynesian department when it comes to economics.
James Clyburn, third most powerful man in the Democratic Party, taking time to talk to us today, sir, we appreciate you doing so.
CLYBURN: Thank you so much.
SANCHEZ: You told us that you wanted to hear from the man who blasted the SEC, in fact, this congressman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. GARY ACKERMAN (D), NEW YORK: We thought the enemy was Mr. Madoff. I think it's you. You were the shield. You were the protector.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yes, that's the SEC getting Ackermaned. And then he Ackermaned the bank chiefs, too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACKERMAN: And we listen to you, and we hear words, words, words, and no answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: I begin to wonder whether he is going to do that to me. Congressman Gary Ackerman joins us next live right here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Hey, welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
I want to show you a couple of tweets that we just got in a moment ago, because I mentioned that I was going to have Congressman Gary Ackerman in.
Let's turn that around, if we can.
"Ackerman epitomizes accountability. Bravo."
Now, look at this one down here. Let me skip down here just a little bit. I want to show you as we go. "Ackerman, laugh out loud, my hero."
All this over what?
This is -- let me introduce you to Congressman Gary Ackerman, of late known for securing the SEC board over the Madoff situation. For those of you who may not have seen what he did, let's give you a little play-by-play. Here it is.
Take it, Rog.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACKERMAN: What the heck went on?
Your mission, you said, was to protect investors, and detect fraud quickly. How did that work out? You couldn't find your backside with two hands if the lights were on. Could you explain yourselves?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: "How did that work out?"
Gary Ackerman again joining us.
When and why did you choose to skewer in the form in which you did, Congressman?
ACKERMAN: I just got angry.
These are the people that we have all entrusted to protect the American investors and taxpayers. And they just buried their heads in the ground, and they just didn't get it. And I was just angry.
SANCHEZ: Yesterday, you faced off with bankers. Are they -- by the way, are they just as guilty, and did you feel that they needed a stern talking to as well? And did you?
ACKERMAN: Well, I didn't talk to them as sternly. I didn't want to look like I was angry all the time.
(LAUGHTER)
ACKERMAN: But they deserved what they got. And maybe they should have gotten a little bit more. They didn't get it either. And, you know, their doings were a totally different thing.
These were guys that we gave tons of money to get out on the street to people that were hurting, and they have just been sitting on it or putting it in their pockets.
SANCHEZ: But they're -- they would say and a lot of economists would say that they're kind of stuck. Look, they usually give the loans, but then there's a third party that gets those loans after they handle it.
And that third party's gone right now. It doesn't exist in our economy. So, that's why they're not issuing loans. You hear that argument again and again. Do you buy it or understand it? And are you willing to deal with it on -- deal with them on those terms?
ACKERMAN: I don't -- I don't buy it.
These guys made a conscious decision to hold the -- hold onto the money to better their bottom lines. Some of them used it to buy banks that were good buys at the time to shore themselves up. This money wasn't for that. This was not their decision. This was a policy decision that was decided by policy-makers.
And that is us representing the American people. We gave it to them to get out on the streets. You know, people know they can go into a bank. They don't have to go to a broker or anybody else if they need to get a loan. Banks do that. They didn't do that. They just hoarded the money and then gave themselves huge bonuses.
SANCHEZ: Let me show you something. This is one of the things that everybody was talking about. I'm going to show you skewering the SEC again, in particular the woman who's in charge of enforcement for the SEC. She looks like she's cowering as you're speaking to her. And then something happened after that.
First, let's take a look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACKERMAN: What happened here? That's the question. Do we start with hear no evil, see no evil, or do no evil? Take your pick.
LINDA CHATMAN THOMSEN, ENFORCEMENT DIRECTOR, SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION: We cannot answer as the specifics. I can talk generally...
ACKERMAN: You know, if anybody made the case better than Mr. Markopolos -- and I didn't think anybody could -- about you people being completely inept, you have made the case better than him.
THOMSEN: Well, sir, I am sorry you feel that way, profoundly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That's Linda Thomsen. She was, was the SEC enforcement chief, because just a few days after your admonishment, she up and quit.
Did she reach out to you and -- you know what? Just as a human being, what's your reaction to that?
ACKERMAN: Well, I felt badly for her.
But it's not my job to feel badly for her. She had a job to do, and she didn't do it. Her job was to prevent a disaster. Her job was to prevent pain and suffering for so many Americans. And she completely failed in doing that. And it wasn't as if she didn't know, because Mr. Markopolos brought it to her, gave it to them on a silver platter, and they just absolutely ignored him.
How frustrating is that to find out if you have lost your entire life savings and no longer have a way to make a living?
SANCHEZ: What do you say to the Republicans? I was listening to some talk show hosts today. And you know, in this country, most talk show hosts are Republicans. They're saying you're grandstanding. How do you respond to that charge?
ACKERMAN: Well, all I know is, when I got home, my kids said to me, we know that look.
(LAUGHTER)
ACKERMAN: I was really angry. I really didn't have any prepared questions. I was there to listen to the testimony and very frustrated after hearing Mr. Markopolos' explanation, which was rather heroic, I thought, his decades-long crusade, if you will, to try to save so many people from the situation they eventually did find themselves in, presenting it to these people.
And then we saw why he couldn't get anywhere with them, because we couldn't get anywhere with them. They just didn't want to talk to us about it. They knew about it. They could have spoken to us. They had no authority to claim executive privilege or -- they were just -- they were protecting their own backsides, and not protecting the president when they claimed executive privilege.
SANCHEZ: We get it. We get it.
Gary -- Congressman Gary Ackerman of New York, do us a favor. Give us a call the next time you know someone's going to be Ackermaned.
(LAUGHTER)
ACKERMAN: Rick Sanchez, it's great to be on with you on -- in the NEWSROOM.
SANCHEZ: Appreciate it. Thanks so much, Congressman Gary Ackerman.
George Bush, as reported by Chelsea Handler, has a new post- presidential job -- that report when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
I'm Rick Sanchez here in the world headquarters of CNN. A lot of comments coming in from you. As we get going, I want to show you this one.
This is from MySpace. And this one seems to be saying something quite interesting.
She's watching. She says, "Since we are mortgaging our children's future with this stimulus, we owe it to them to at least provide them a better education to fix what we screw up."
Well said.
By the way, nice jaunt over here, Johnny B. Goode. That was pretty good with Mike -- you got Michael laughing over here on the right.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Let me bring you something else that might put a little chuckle on your face right now.
This is about someone who talks about our former president in terms of his future, because she is concerned. Here now, "The Fix."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "CHELSEA LATELY")
CHELSEA HANDLER, HOST, "CHELSEA LATELY": George W. Bush has been offered his first job since not being the president anymore.
(LAUGHTER)
HANDLER: The Dallas-Fort -- in Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas, a hardware store has offered him a job as their store greeter and someone who can answer questions.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, he's going to be the greeter, so people will come and ask questions. If he couldn't find the weapons of mass destruction, how do we know he's going to be able to find the Phillips screwdrivers?
(LAUGHTER)
HANDLER: I will tell you how. Because Dick Cheney is going to be wheeling right behind him in that wheelchair telling him what to say.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART")
JON STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW": And it turns out neither Bibi nor Tzipi has won enough votes to form a majority government. So, they have to make a deal with other factions to form a coalition government.
And here's where it gets confusing.
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: The leading third party candidates are a liberal named Barak and a conservative named Lieberman.
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: Their Nader is Barak and their Buchanan is Lieberman.
(LAUGHTER)
STEWART: And whereas our Lieberman looks like a Jew from Tel Aviv, their Lieberman looks like Bill Richardson, a Hispanic from New Mexico.
(LAUGHTER) (END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE COLBERT REPORT")
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE COLBERT REPORT": Warned you before about the D.C. Voting Rights Act, which would give residents of Washington, D.C., a voting representative in Congress.
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (I), CONNECTICUT: This is our year. We have just gone through an historic presidential inauguration, one that a lot of people never thought would happen.
COLBERT: Especially Joe Lieberman.
(LAUGHTER)
COLBERT: Listen, this bill is blatantly unconstitutional. Article 1, Section blahhhh, clearly states the House of Representatives should be composed by members chosen every second year by the people of the several states. And Washington, D.C. is not a state. Even if it was a state, it would be Washington State and that is taken.
(LAUGHTER)
COLBERT: It would have to change its name to Starbuckistan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: By the way, we're going to have a little Fix bonus today. We're going to bring you something that we were able to get for you as we traveled to New York yesterday -- Brooklyn, to be exact. The most important of the boroughs -- ooh, I'll get mail. And we'll have it for you a little bit later.
(VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is the end result after a guy gets hit by a car, then another car, then dragged for 17 miles. It's the story many are talking about. We'll bring you the results on that and the latest information, when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: There's the Dow, still down despite the fact there were two pretty good indicators today.
Let's talk about something now that will probably make you wince. This is video that you are about to see -- as amazing a video as we've probably seen in a long, long time. It's the story of a man who's struck by a car. Well, that happens from time to time. But then he's struck by another car. And then he's dragged for 17 miles.
Here's the story.
It's filed by WIPX's Mary Murphy. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY MURPHY, WPIX CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The time was 6:09 a.m. when this man, heading to his car on 108th street in Corona, Queens, witnessed a horrific scene -- another man crossing 50th Avenue hit by a black SUV, pushed up the street by the vehicle, with the white car then slowly swerving to avoid the scene and passing by. And it's at that point that a red van comes, passing over the victim, a suspension bar underneath the van catching the man.
The victim, lodged by his rib cage, simply swept away from the scene -- the beginning of a 17-mile ride through Queens and Brooklyn.
You can see the original witness grabbing his head in disbelief as the driver from across the street gets out of his car and another driver, as well.
Another angle of the surveillance tape obtained by WPIX News at 10, shows a man getting out of a vehicle that dropped him off on 108th Street just before 6:09 a.m. walking to the corner and practicing good pedestrian safety and getting across 50th Avenue.
And it's just at that time that another man appears and he is the one who is hit. It is still dark at the time and vehicles are using their headlights.
The driver of the black SUV that originally hit the man immediately called 911 and stayed at the scene. But when police arrived, the victim was gone -- no one realizing yet that the red cargo van that carried him away. The red van's driver later told police he never saw the man being hit and he assumed drivers were swerving to avoid a pothole.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It is unbelievable to think that something like that could even happen. And then when you think of the mileage -- 17 miles in this case.
Ashleigh Banfield is joining us now, the host of "In Session".
You know, you've got a million questions as you look at this. But let me just start with what we know.
What are we learning about this case at this point?
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, ANCHOR, "IN SESSION": Well, amazingly, the videotape tells the story, because without it, it would have been really tough to put this together. With that extraordinarily long journey that that deliveryman in the red van took -- he was on three different New York expressways, Rick...
SANCHEZ: Oh my goodness.
BANFIELD: ...before he ended up at his final location, where it was someone else who flagged him down. It was a passerby who flagged him down and said there's something under your car and it looks like it might be a person. He had stopped two times, Rick. He thought somebody was wrong with his van. It wasn't driving the right way. He stopped two times, looked under the hood, never looked under the car.
SANCHEZ: Now that man who apparently first came out of his car, you look at the video -- and I don't know if we can show it here, Rog. I don't know if you can do a requeue on this. But the man gets out of his car. Apparently he calls police. And then he's looking at this person who he hit, apparently. And he then watches as the body just -- the man's body just disappears.
BANFIELD: Well, there's very...
SANCHEZ: And he scratches -- he's almost scratching his head going, did I just see that?
BANFIELD: Well, and I would have, too. I mean, it looked so bizarre. And when you see it in real time, it does looks like the body disappeared.
As I understand it, some reports have come in suggesting that the original driver who hit the pedestrian called 911 right away and then got out to walk back and didn't find the body and then was perplexed. And it's the witness who's not driving the car who actually saw the so-called disappearing body. It's all very mysterious. But at least the video tells us, you know, the real story.
SANCHEZ: And it looks like everybody's on the up and up on this one.
Now this one here that I'm about to show you, it doesn't look like people here are on the up and up. This is a wild shootout -- the kind of shootouts -- I was talking to one of the lieutenants down there moments ago. And I reminded him I used to work in Miami, where we saw shootouts like this during the 1980s for a long time during the cocaine cowboy era.
That's what this looks like. This looks like a drug hit. I mean look at this. These guys apparently have machine guns. They're coming up on a guy's house. And suddenly the homeowner starts defending himself. He starts shooting back at them. They get back in their car and then drive away.
Now, apparently, they got one guy. But they can't find the other three.
Ashleigh, what do we know?
BANFIELD: Very little. At this point, I'm seeing this video for the very first time. But I can tell you that in certain states, you have the right to shoot at someone -- even if it's in the back -- if they have, you know, if they come onto your property and in some way threatened you or if you felt threatened. So there may or may not be charges for the homeowner who may or may have been shooting after these people.
But I think the video tells a pretty good story in this one, too, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Yes, it's...
BANFIELD: Thank God for the surveillance video around this country.
SANCHEZ: It's incredible to see something like that and to actually have the sound on it. And, apparently, well, you know, I talked to the lieutenant a little while ago and he mentioned that usually in cases like this, the homeowner is not completely innocent.
BANFIELD: Yes.
SANCHEZ: So we might be -- we might be hearing more about this story.
Ashleigh Banfield, thanks so much.
We appreciate it.
BANFIELD: Always good to see you, Rick.
Don't lose that number.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Oh, Twitterers. Those are the people who bring you the tweets. I can't wait to go inside and find out what's going on.
Let's go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And we do. Let's go inside. This is my trip to the Shorty Awards or Twitterers unmasked. I'll ask you -- I'll take you behind-the-scenes of the awards given for the best thoughts written in 140 characters or less. And there were actually some famous people there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
I'm Rick Sanchez here in the World Headquarters of CNN.
If you'll indulge me for just a minute, you know how big a familiar I am of social media and how I think in the future many people will be communicating this way. That's why last night I went to Brooklyn, New York to meet with Twitterers from all over the world for the Shorty Awards.
Here's a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: This is dinner. We just finished our show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good show, huh?
SANCHEZ: A pretty cool show tonight. And now we're heading over to Brooklyn. We're going to do the Shorty Awards. They got the right guy, because I'm short.
Look at all these people who are here. And they're all Twitterers. These are the people who bring you the tweets.
I can't wait to go inside and find out what's going on. Let's go.
Suddenly, there were a hundred people talking to me. And it grew and grew and grew. And now there's 52,000, 53,000 people on Twitter and 10,000 to 15,000 on MySpace and Facebook. And we've only been doing it for five or six months.
MC HAMMER, RAPPER: Stand over there.
SANCHEZ: MC Hammer.
Isn't that cool?
HAMMER: I'm MC Hammer.
But, however, my position is being usurped tonight. I will not be the emcee. Rick Sanchez will be your emcee tonight. But people really want to talk to each other. You don't necessarily need the media to accept grace (INAUDIBLE) you and I want to communicate and we can, the guy will provide us a forum. He's got a great business model.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Oh. Oh, OK. So I -- so when I get up there, I'm all by my little self.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. It's just a couple of minutes before show time. And we're getting ready to head on down.
SANCHEZ: Here we go, down the stairs. And I'm told, by the way, it is a packed house. (APPLAUSE)
SANCHEZ: Who would have thunk it huh?
Do you want to see this?
We put something together for you. This is a video. We want you to watch this. Congratulations to Penny Olson.
In the social media world, while I was doing it...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And we even made "The New York Times" today.
It was that flight back this morning that was tough, right Michael?
MICHAEL: That's right.
SANCHEZ: It was, indeed.
By the way, here's Michael.
Say hi, Michael.
MICHAEL: Hi.
SANCHEZ: One more time.
Who are the 25 people who are most to blame for the economic meltdown in this country?
The 25 people who are most to blame for the economic meltdown in this country -- it's a "Time Magazine" report.
And we've got the "Time" business editor joining us to tell you who the names are.
Start guessing. He's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "MEET THE PRESS," FEBRUARY 2004, COURTESY NBC)
GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The recession started upon my arrival. It could have been -- some say February, some say March, some speculate maybe earlier it started. But nevertheless, it happened as we showed up here.
The attacks on our country affected our economy. Corporate scandals affected the confidence of people and, therefore, affected the economy. And my decision on Iraq, this kind of march to war affected the economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That's the former president of the United States preempting attacks from citizens and members of the media, saying he is one of the big causes for the economic meltdown in this country, explaining himself.
And many of you -- many of you at home, like this Twitterer, Trish -- she's watching our show. And she heard me ask that question even before we went to break. And she said: "Sorry to say, but former President Bush is to blame." Well, "Time Magazine" is composing right now a list of the 25 people who are most to blame for this economic meltdown. And interestingly enough, so far, as we've been looking at the list today -- and it's been changing, because it has input from you and readers of "Time Magazine" -- it has not been George Bush at the top of the list.
In fact, the name at the top of the list when last I checked -- maybe surprisingly enough, maybe not -- was former Texas senator turned lobbyist, Phil Gramm.
Justin Fox is the business editor at "Time Magazine."
He's good enough to join us now.
Phil Gramm, huh?
Why Phil Gramm?
JUSTIN FOX, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Way to go Phil, huh?
Phil was the most prominent deregulator of the late '90s. And he was a major force behind a couple of big pieces of legislation. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which repealed the separation between banks and Wall Street and basically another bill that kind of banned regulation of certain derivatives, like credit default swaps, which have gotten in a lot of trouble lately.
SANCHEZ: We get it. So this is one of the people who, according to many, created the scenario to built us to where we are.
Let me ask you about Angelo -- this is number two on the list, Angelo Mozilo. Most of us can't remember Countrywide, but Countrywide used to be a big story in this country.
FOX: Countrywide was the biggest mortgage lender in America for most of the last 15 or 20 years. And they had been a good company. That made a lot of great loans. And they weren't the ones who led the way with subprime and other crazy no doc lending. But when they got behind it, they sort of created this tsunami that nobody could stop.
SANCHEZ: I get Christopher Cox -- obviously, because he was in charge of the SEC. And I guess if Congressman Gary Ackerman had his way, he'd have him in front of him right now, too.
But, you know, people would wonder, where do put George Bush?
Where is your list putting -- slotting George Bush?
And by the way, a lot of people say this started with Bill Clinton, as well. So those presidents both, I imagine, have been mentioned in your list -- or have they?
FOX: Bill Clinton's on our list, too. And I will say that this morning, Bush was number. And then at some point in the middle of the day Phil Gramm displaced him. So he could -- he could make a come back. I mean if you want to get out there and vote, it's at TIME.com and can vote away.
Clinton doesn't seem to be getting the big votes. But he -- obviously, these two -- those two bills that Phil Gramm was behind, Bill Clinton signed them both into law.
And clearly, there's not one person to blame for all of this. The whole point of having a list of 25 -- and we could have done a list of 50 or 75 -- is to sort of get this sense that there's a lot of causes here and a lot of people behind it.
SANCHEZ: By the way, when is this thing out?
When will we be able to see it in its final forum?
FOX: It should be on news...
SANCHEZ: Will it ever have a final form?
FOX: Well, we sort of preempted ourselves. It's on newsstands tomorrow. So there's a printed version already.
SANCHEZ: Oh. OK.
FOX: I don't know that we really claim that the list -- I think we might have Mozilo who's first on our list in the printed version. But I don't think we really claim that we definitely made him definitively the worst.
But online -- you can go there right now to TIME.com and vote. And I've just got to put in a plug for my favorite. He's currently -- the last time I checked, he's in last place, by far. But Burton Jablin, who clearly is not some villain here, but he's the guy behind all of those HGTV shows about flipping houses and doing the house for sale.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
FOX: And we thought it would be fun to include him on there. But the voters aren't going for it.
SANCHEZ: Justin Fox, business editor for "Time" magazine.
Hey, Justin, thanks so much.
We'll check on this thing when it's fini, eh?
FOX: All right. Thanks for having me.
SANCHEZ: We appreciate it.
Hey, look who -- look who's in the proverbial CNN Atlanta headquarters house.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Should we Twitter right now? SANCHEZ: Should we?
BLITZER: No.
SANCHEZ: You know what?
BLITZER: I want to...
SANCHEZ: I'm going to Twitter something right now.
BLITZER: Twitter to Jack Cafferty.
Can you Twitter to Jack Cafferty a little bit?
SANCHEZ: Yes. Let's go. Jack Cafferty is the man.
BLITZER: He is.
SANCHEZ: What do you think, guys?
BLITZER: Good question. Good question.
SANCHEZ: Let's send it out...
BLITZER: I want to...
SANCHEZ: ...and see if we get reaction on this.
BLITZER: I want to hear what they think.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: Wolf Blitzer tell us what's coming up on your show.
BLITZER: This is -- this is it. This is your show. It's a good show.
SANCHEZ: Thanks, man.
I appreciate it.
BLITZER: I'm glad you're leading into my show.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BLITZER: Rick is doing an excellent job.
SANCHEZ: Hey, we're a team, you and I.
BLITZER: We are.
SANCHEZ: It works.
BLITZER: I'm here in Atlanta. This is a great place.
Thanks for inviting me. Let me tell our viewers what's coming up at the top of the hour.
We've got a lot coming up, including a special interview with Colin Powell. Don Lemon sat down with him and he got him to open up about what's going on in the country right now.
We're going to share with that with you.
Also, Hamid Karzai -- Fareed Zakaria had an exclusive with the Afghan leader. A lot at stake.
And, of course, we're getting ready to hear from the president of the United States. He's getting ready to speak in Illinois. We'll have it live.
And a lot more coming up right there in "THE SITUATION ROOM" -- Rick, it's going to be a good show today, as it is every day.
SANCHEZ: Here we go.
You ready?
BLITZER: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Jack Cafferty rocks.
BLITZER: He does.
SANCHEZ: Johnny B. Good -- turn that thing around and show Wolf. There you go. Now you go back to Jack you can say, you know, Twitterers love you, man.
BLITZER: I know. He's going to have to start Twittering.
SANCHEZ: Do you think Jack even knows what a Twitter is?
BLITZER: He asked me the other day what it was and I tried to explain.
SANCHEZ: That it's not a rock?
BLITZER: Yes, no.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: Good.
SANCHEZ: I appreciate it, man.
BLITZER: You're the man.
SANCHEZ: Good to see you.
BLITZER: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Wolf Blitzer. All right. Now this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MICHAEL CAPUANO (D), MASSACHUSETTS: But basically you come to us today on your bicycles after buying Girl Scout cookies and helping out Mother Teresa, telling us we're sorry, we didn't mean it, we won't do it again. Trust us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gentleman...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right, he was the guy. The one you just saw right there all up in the big bankers' faces yesterday. Congressman Michael Capuano -- he's going to join me right here next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPUANO: You come to us today on your bicycles after buying Girl Scout cookies and helping out Mother Teresa, telling us we're sorry, we didn't mean it, we won't do it again, trust us.
Well, I have some people in my constituency that actually robbed some of your banks. And they say the same thing. They're sorry, they didn't mean it, they won't do it again, just let them out.
Do you understand that this is a little difficult for most of my constituents to take, that you learned your lesson?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: That's Michael Capuano yesterday. He was talking to the CEOs of big banks in this country -- in some cases, investment bankers. And as you can see, he wasn't pleased with them one bit.
Congressman Capuano, Democrat of Massachusetts, thank you, sir, for taking the time to talk to us.
CAPUANO: Nice to be here, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Let me start with this.
You mentioned at one point that you think these guys should face charges.
Are you serious about that?
CAPUANO: Not individually. I just think that -- I was speaking specifically about the creation of what's called special investment vehicles, which, to me, basically companies that are off the books that were not subject to capitalization requirements, they're not subject to regulation. And yet all of the -- almost all of the losses in the first wave of trillion dollar losses came from those special investment vehicles. I always thought they were illegal and I still think that they are illegal.
SANCHEZ: Here's something else I want our viewers to see. This is you yesterday talking about them not loaning any money.
Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPUANO: Start loaning the money that we gave you. Get it on the street. And don't say oh, well, we're not using that money for bonuses. Come on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You know, some people say that it would be very difficult for them to loan money because they need somebody to take those loans off their hands after they make them.
Do you buy that?
CAPUANO: No. That's -- that's for some of it, no question. They're not going to go back to the full blown open door lending policies they had. I wouldn't want them to. But I can name many people -- at least in my district -- that had projects ready to go. We have shovels that are ready to go in the ground, that they lost their funding because these banks all of a sudden decided -- not just the banks, but the banks amongst decided to pull back all of their -- all of their commitments.
And, again, I understand that some of them might have been risky, but not all of them. Some of them are very standard development projects that could put a lot of people to work and help this economy move forward.
SANCHEZ: Michael Capuano, congressman, Democrat from Massachusetts.
My thanks to you, sir...
CAPUANO: Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: ...for coming on and taking us through some of the tirades that you actually enacted yesterday.
CAPUANO: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: We are not done yet. More of what you had to say about today's news and other stories of importance.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Look what we started with old crotchety Cafferty. Suddenly, people love this guy: "I dream of Cafferty" was the last one we saw there. Another one says: "I love the guy because he speaks his mind."
All right, now to the Cafferty partial show. Here's Wolf Blitzer in Atlanta from "THE SITUATION ROOM".
