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President Plans to Sign Stimulus Bill in Denver; Lawmakers Face Budget Crisis; A Killer's Past Revealed
Aired February 14, 2009 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: On the road, again. President Obama taking a stimulus to a city near you. We'll tell you when he'll sign it and why he won't do it in Washington.
Looking for answers. Investigators finding new clues about how and why Continental Flight 3407 fell from the sky. But nothing short of bringing lost loved ones back will help those left grieving.
I'm Don Lemon. Also tonight, a year in the making. In a lifetime of red flags for a campus gunman who shattered lives and destroyed families.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does a mass murderer have to do to get noticed?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: A CNN exclusive investigation coming up.
The first valentine, the first couple out on a Valentine's Day. We're making you the third wheel at the restaurant. Cheers, everyone. The news starts right now.
Hello, everyone, I'm Don Lemon, live in the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. We start with this just in. First, I want to tell you, not so long ago, most of us didn't think twice about the dozen roses, the card, the candy or Valentine's Day dinner. This year, though, not so much. So here's the good news. There is at least a plan to boost the economy in the works now. The president obviously relieved, taking his wife out on a Valentine's Day dinner. More on that later.
Here's the bad news, though. No one is absolutely sure it will provide some much-needed relief in these troubled times. But CNN has learned when and where that $787 billion economic stimulus plan will be made law. Our Suzanne Malveaux traveling with the president in Chicago this weekend tells us, you might be surprised about where it will all happen.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We know that the president is going to sign this legislation on Tuesday out of Denver. Now, this is really a departure from what you usually see out of Washington. The president usually in a very kind of formal setting at the White House with members of Congress. But aides say, look, this is an opportunity for him to show that he gets it, he wants to be out with the American people and they can use the city as a demonstration of like an example of how they're going to create jobs. It's aerospace, energy. These are the types of things, they've diversified their economy. The types of things that they want to talk about. And it really will be able to link this economic stimulus package with real people. At least, Don, that is the hope of the White House.
LEMON: Yes, and they want to get out of Washington and all of that tugging of -- that tug of war between Democrats and Republicans, Suzanne.
MALVEAUX: Absolutely. I mean, they really are trying to portray this as not a food fight between Democrats and Republicans. They are trying to downplay the fact that they didn't get very much support from Republicans, and simply put him out in an environment where he is relating to folks, ordinary folks, and making the sell. And they said even last week, there was a real turnaround that it was very difficult, the Republicans simply controlling the message. They really got control back of that message when they felt that he was out there. And we have learned once a week he's going to be on the road. He's going to be out there selling whatever it is. But the economic stimulus package, obviously, the most important thing in convincing the American people, believe in the economy, have faith that things are going to get better, that they will create those jobs.
LEMON: CNN's Suzanne Malveaux. The billions of dollars in new spending will start flowing soon after the president signs his name on Tuesday. But that doesn't mean the plan is popular with everyone. For starters, try Republicans in Congress. Almost every one of them voted against the bill. Right after yesterday's vote, the House Republican leader blasted the measure as wasteful spending.
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REP. JOE BOEHNER (R), MINORITY LEADER: I'm just going to say the president made clear when we started this process that this was about jobs. Jobs, jobs, jobs. And what it's turned into is nothing more than spending, spending and more spending. American families, small businesses deserve better from their Congress. I said on the opening day, we wouldn't be party of no, and we haven't been. We offered an alternative that would have created twice as many jobs as their bill at half the price.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The president calls the stimulus plan a major milestone, still cautioning the bill by itself won't be enough.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Once the plan is put into action, a new Web site, recovery.gov, will allow any American to watch where the money goes and weigh in with comments and questions. And I encourage every American to do so. Ultimately, this is your money, and you deserve to know where it's going and how it's spent.
This historic step won't be the end of what we do to turn our economy around, but rather the beginning. The problems that led us into this crisis are deep and widespread. And our response must be equal to the task.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The president said you deserve to know where it's going. So where is it planned to go at least now, that $787 billion? $267 billion will be used for direct spending, things like food stamps and unemployment benefits. $212 billion comes in the form of tax cuts. Most people will get a $400 tax credit. Couples will get $800. $120 billion is to improve infrastructure, patching up roads, bridges and buildings. $100 billion is to set aside for education and $30 billion will be spent on energy projects to create so-called green jobs.
CNN's John King will have more on the stimulus plan and its political fallout tomorrow morning on "STATE OF THE UNION," that's Sunday, 9:00 a.m. Eastern only here on CNN.
No one in California needs reminding that the economy is struggling. And tonight, lawmakers there are trying to find a way to close a $42 billion budget deficit. They've gathered at the state capitol right now to vote on a mix of huge spending cuts and tax hikes. There's something for everyone not to like in this bill. Democrats are unhappy with plans for $15 billion in cuts. Republicans are angry that the state could end up raising taxes by more than $14 billion. Stay tuned in California.
The follow-up on the saga involving former Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich now. It turns out Roland Burris, the man Blagojevich appointed to Barack Obama's Senate seat was solicited to contribute money to the governor's campaign. That's a fact that Burris did not reveal when he testified before a state impeachment committee.
Burris now said he was contacted three times about donating or raising cash for the governor, but he says he refused the request because of the appearance of a conflict of interest. Now, as you know, Blagojevich was later impeached and removed from office in part over claims he tried to sell the senate seat to the highest bidder.
Two double homicides today in suburban Rochester, New York. One person is in custody. Police believe the same gunman killed the four people in two separate incidents. Now police say a suspect, a former hospital worker, knew the victims. Here's how it went down.
Early this morning, a man and woman were found shot to death in a hospital parking lot in the town of Brockport. A third person was seriously wounded in the rampage. Later police say a man and woman were shot execution-style in their home in Cassadaga. Now their teenage son and daughter were also home, but were not hurt in that incident.
Coming up in about ten minutes, chilling details from a CNN special investigation exactly one year after the fatal shootings at Northern Illinois University.
Earlier tonight, friends and family of the five victims gathered to remember their loved ones. 18 others were wounded when former student Steven Kazmierczak open fire in a geology class. Today's students and faculty gathered in the schools basketball arena.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five lives doomed, but still shining strong, illuminating a path to greater service, leading us to a fresh sense of community, guiding us to engage each other at our better selves, lights of perseverance and dedication. Lights of courage, lights of reflection and inspiration. Lights of compassion. Lights of integration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: There are so much more to this case and what you might remember from the headlines.
CNN special investigations unit returns to the scene. That was not the scene. That was the scene of that plane crash on Thursday night in New York. We will get back to that in just a moment. But CNN returns to the scene of that startling, startling shooting. We have some new information for you. It is an exclusive report. You don't want to miss it. Our Abbie Boudreau of our special investigations unit will join me and we will go over the new information that she has gathered.
And what happened to Flight 3407? We're digging deeper into the search for those clues. We're back in a moment.
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VOICE OF KAREN WIELINSKI, HOME DESTROYED IN CRASH: I shouted first in case anybody was out there, and then just kind of pushed what was on me, part of that off and crawled out the hole. I had heard like, you know, a woman crying when I came out of the hole.
You know, the back of the house was gone. You know, the fire had started. I could see the wings of the plane and Jill was over to the side, you know, crying, of course, hysterical. To me, it looked like the plane just came down in the middle of the house, and unfortunately, that's where he was. He was a good person. Loved his family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Karen Wielinski, the wife of Doug Wielinski, and he is the man who was killed when Flight 3407 slammed into their house on Thursday night.
Tonight, new details in Thursday night's crash of a commuter plane near Buffalo, New York. 15 bodies have been removed from the crash site so far. It will probably take three or four days to recover the rest of them. Identification could take much longer than that. Investigators say the plane did not appear to nose-dive into the house, as first thought.
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STEVEN CHEALANDER, NTSB BOARD MEMBER: There's been a lot of reports of the airplane coming nose down into the house in the accident. Eyewitnesses reports and so forth. And what we found are all four corners of the airplane. We have found the cockpit, the tail section, both wings and engines, and they're where they should be if an airplane was laying flat.
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LEMON: All 49 people on board the plane and one person on the ground were killed.
We're hearing from family members who lost loved ones and they're on that Flight 3407. They're putting a real face on this incredible tragedy for us. Shirlene Thiesfeld's brother was piloting that flight. She spoke with CNN's Larry King.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": What was he like?
SHIRLENE THIESFELD, PILOT'S SISTER: He was a great person. He was a wonderful father. He was very involved in his church and community. He loved life. He loved sharing his life with his family and friends and involved them. He had a passion for flying. And he will be -- he will be missed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And this picture right here, this is Rebecca Shaw, the co-pilot of the plane. Her mother talked about her passion for flying also.
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LYNN MORRIS, REBECCA SHAW'S MOTHER: She was light. She loved to fly. It was her passion. She just -- she just loved flying and any time she could be in the air. She was an amazing woman. She came very, very far. She was just full of energy. She would try anything, do anything, was up for any new experience. And she just loved life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The victims and family members of those on Flight 3407.
Unraveling the mystery of the Northern Illinois University shootings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't believe that he didn't tell me or give me some indication that something was wrong. I would have helped him. I would have done something for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: It was one year today that this happened. And we want to know what caused Steven Kazmierczak to snap. Were there any warning signs? Is there anything anyone could have done to prevent this tragedy? Tonight, we revisit the campus where the shootings happened and dig deeper for answers. It is CNN exclusive investigation. We have that for you straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: One year ago today, a former student, Steven Kazmierczak -- well, he killed five students at Northern Illinois University, then he killed himself. At the time, school officials say he was a good student who had gone off his medication and then he just -- he just snapped. But a special investigations unit correspondent Abbie Boudreau learned, there is much, much more to this Valentine's Day rampage than that, isn't there?
ABBIE BOUDREAU, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think really to understand all of this, you really have to look back to what was reported at the time of the shooting. A lot of our information was coming from the person closest to the killer, Jessica Baty. She told me they shared an apartment together and they were planning a future. Both Baty and university police chief told us there were no obvious warning signs that would make them think Kazmierczak would become a school shooter. That was a year ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOUDREAU (voice-over): In most cases, experts say the warning signs are clear, but sometimes even those closest to a killer say they never saw it coming.
JESSICA BATY, STEVEN KAZMIERCZAK'S GIRLFRIEND: The Steven that I know and love was not the man that walked into that building. He was not the same person.
BOUDREAU: Valentine's Day, 2008, nearly 10 months after Virginia Tech.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was no expression on his face whatsoever. He didn't say a word.
BOUDREAU: Steven Kazmierczak, a 27-year-old former student, entered a crowded lecture hall at Northern Illinois University.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just came in, pointed the gun, and opened fire.
BOUDREAU: Two minutes later, after killing five students and wounding 18, Kazmierczak shot himself. His former girlfriend, Jessica Baty, says she was as shocked as anyone. That's what she told me days after the shootings in this exclusive interview.
JESSICA BATY, FORMER GIRLFRIEND: He didn't seem that unhappy. No, I would never, never imagined that it would have been Steven who walked out of that stage. I -- I don't know why.
BOUDREAU (voice-over): It appear that Kazmierczak couldn't have been more different from Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech killer. Friends told us he was popular, successful, apparently in a relationship with plans for the future.
BATY: I don't know how he could have had a double life. I was -- I was in his life all the time. I didn't -- I can't believe that he didn't tell me or give me some indication that something was wrong.
BOUDREAU: Kazmierczak did have difficult moments in his past. A stay at a boy's group home, bouts of depression, and early dismissal from the army. As a teenager, he would cut himself.
BATY: You know, he was kind of a troubled kid. And, you know, everybody -- everybody has a past, and everybody goes through hard times and he felt so bad about his.
BOUDREAU: Baty told CNN, her boyfriend had been taking medication for obsessive-compulsive disorder and anxiety.
BATY: He was on medication and he did stop taking it. And he stopped taking it because he said that it made him feel like a zombie and that he was just, you know, was lazy. That's why he stopped taking it. He didn't behave erratically.
BOUDREAU: It would be rare if there were truly no warning signs according to Harvard's William Pollack.
WILLIAM POLLACK, HARVARD PSYCHOLOGIST: School shootings, at least to date are not impulsive. It isn't like a student goes home and says, I'm coming back in a minute, I'm going to kill someone. Usually, there are warning signs and in retrospect, unfortunately, the warning signs are found if they aren't seen beforehand.
BOUDREAU: Kazmierczak's rampage through NIU left many wishing for answers. He left a note, shocking, and how much it left unsaid.
BATY: It says, "You are the best, Jessica. You've done so much for me, and I truly do love you. You will make an excellent psychologist or social worker someday. Don't forget about me. Love, Steven."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: So, Abbie, of course, that was one year ago, but we have learned a lot more about Steven Kazmierczak In this year, haven't we?
BOUDREAU: So much is now coming out about this person. His obsession with horror movies, his admiration for serial killers. His lengthy history of mental health problems. There's just so much there, so much new information that we certainly didn't know at the time of the shooting and now it's all coming out. LEMON: It's all coming out. And, of course, because of our special investigations unit. And you could say one of the clues to Steven Kazmierczak's state of mind was a popular movie franchise. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think out of all of the text that he loved, movies and books, the "Saw" movies are the most important. Because the sadistic killer narrator in the "Saw" movie is pretending to be a psychologist.
BOUDREAU: Jigsaw.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jigsaw.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Was he living a double life? Well, were warning -- were the warning signs missed in this case. We are digging deeper and unraveling the mystery of the NIU killings.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So one year ago we were told that Steven Kazmierczak was a good student, and there were no warning signs to suggest he would burst into a Northern Illinois University lecture hall, gun down five students and then kill himself. But as special investigations unit correspondent Abbie Boudreau found out, Kazmierczak's past provides clues to what happened that day.
BOUDREAU: Let's put it simply, this is a story about deception and deception. He was the master of deception, an honor student on the outside. But on the inside, someone with serious mental problems. We've also learn that he was obsessed with men like Adolf Hitler and Ted Bundy. He loved horror movies and identified with the main character in the "Saw" films. This is the story of the NIU killer that you haven't seen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOUDREAU (voice-over): Behind that mask is Steven Kazmierczak. He dressed up as Jigsaw's alter ego for Halloween in 2007. Jigsaw is the sadistic killer from the horror movies "Saw."
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR, JIGSAW KILLER: Heed my warning, Agent Perez, your next move is critical.
BOUDREAU: Jigsaw tests his victims by teaching them the value of their lives by torturing them and making them face possible death. CNN has learned this would later be a clue that's important to understanding what happened and why he walked into that classroom and opened fire.
DAVID VANN, AUTHOR: It's just amazing that he could that coldly plan to kill all of those people. BOUDREAU (on camera): That was so calculated.
VANN: So calculated. Everything was planned out carefully.
BOUDREAU (voice-over): David Vann is an author and professor. For nine months, he studied the shooting for a book he wrote about the murders. He wanted to find out if there really were no red flags. Like NIU officials told the media right after the shooting.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Actually, there were no red flags. He was an outstanding student.
BOUDREAU: Vann says a law enforcement source gave him access to about 1,500 pages of the investigation. And Vann gave CNN exclusive access to those documents.
VANN: The degree of self-destruction and anti-social behavior at the end, of really scary behaviors was just phenomenal. And at some point, after you look at all of those records, you just have to wonder, what does a mass murderer have to do to get noticed?
BOUDREAU: As far back as childhood, Kazmierczak's mother said he was overly sensitive and was bullied. In his baby book, she wrote, "Sometimes I wish he would be a little tougher and bop the daylights out of people that pick on him. One day he will."
As a 14-year-old, Kazmierczak made a Drano Bomb. He also had a history of suicidal attempts, with nine psychiatric hospitalizations prior to 2001. He spent three years at this Illinois facility, but mental health records show he lied about taking his medication and he was kicked out for noncompliance and deception. Under state law, those records would not have been available to the university. His counselors recommended he needed a highly structured environment. So at this point, he enlisted with the army and made it through basic training.
(on camera): How did he get into the army when he had these mental health issues?
VANN: Well, he lied on his application.
BOUDREAU (voice-over): That prompted the army to discharge him. Only a few months later, Kazmierczak enrolled at NIU. Donald Grady, the university's police chief, is overseeing the investigation.
(on camera): One year ago we were reporting that he was, you know, a talented student and he did have somewhat of a social network and there were no red flags. One year later, is that the same story.
CHIEF DONALD GRADY, NIU POLICE: It's the same story. Nothing has changed in that regard. We haven't found anything that would dispel any of that. And so it is absolutely the same right now.
BOUDREAU (voice-over): Though the police investigation has found evidence of odd behavior. One professor remembers him wearing a black trench coat in class, and told her husband she feared he might be one of those Columbine types.
VANN: He was called strange Steve by everyone in the dorm. Everyone knew that something was wrong with him.
BOUDREAU (on camera): At NIU?
VANN: At NIU.
BOUDREAU: Kazmierczak's freshman suite mates reveled he was obsessed with famous murderers like Adolf Hitler and Ted Bundy. And he loved playing online shooting games. But nothing was ever reported to the NIU police, and Grady insist there were no outward warning signs.
GRADY: There are lots of people on this campus that somebody would refer to as strange. I mean, we have women that walk around with dog collars on. I consider that to be strange. Now I don't know if somebody else would consider that to be, but walking around with a dog collar strapped to your neck, that seems to me to be strange. Is that a sign that we should now be concerned that this person is about to engage in acts of violence? I don't think so.
BOUDREAU: Well, what about someone who has a clear obsession for, you know, mass murders and serial killers and always wanting to talk about that?
GRADY: What are we calling an obsession? I mean, I don't know. Was he obsessed? Was he not obsessed? Is that information that came to the university police at any time during the time he was there? And the answer to that question is no. So how could it be a red flag if it never came to us?
BOUDREAU (voice-over): Then came the shooting at Virginia Tech. 32 people died. When a mentally-ill student Seung-Hui Cho chain the door shut and went out a shooting spree.
DAVID VANN, AUTHOR: Steve studied VA Tech and Columbine in lots of details. Especially with one of his friends and, you know, their e-mails online and phone conversations. And he studied methodology like how they did it and success, how they were so successful.
BOUDREAU: CNN obtained a paper Kazmierczak wrote for a class. He titled it "No Crazies with Guns" where he used what happened at Virginia Tech to analyze whether mentally-ill people should have access to guns. Records show Kazmierczak himself was a gun owner and would buy more guns less than two weeks before the shooting. But from the outside, things appeared to be going well.
VANN: Steve Kazmierczak was living a double life.
BOUDREAU: In August 2007, he transferred to the University of Illinois for graduate studies in social work. Mental health records show Kazmierczak once again began seeing a social worker. He said he suffered from anxiety and couldn't sleep. He was interested in getting medication to help with his obsessive compulsive behavior. During the next several months, he was off and on an antidepressant and sleeping medication. Then in October, right before Halloween, Kazmierczak and his former girlfriend, Jessica Baty, who lived with him, went to the movies to watch "Saw IV." Not unusual for him, considering he grew up watching horror movies with his mom.
VANN: I think out of all of the texts that he left, movies and books, the "Saw" movies are the most important because the sadistic killer narrator in the "Saw" movies is pretending to be a psychologist.
BOUDREAU (on camera): Jigsaw.
VANN: Jigsaw.
BOUDREAU (voice over): He dressed up as Jigsaw that Halloween, the character who would test his victims to see if they valued life enough to live. This photo of him in costume, eerily similar to the one of Seung-Hui Cho, the Virginia Tech shooter. He even got a tattoo of Jigsaw on his forearm, riding a tricycle through a puddle of blood.
By January 2008, the police investigation shows he became more secretive, having sexual encounters with both a man and several women, some he met on Craigslist. Jessica Baty told police he admitted those encounters to her. She also told police Kazmierczak told her, "If anything ever happens to me, don't tell anyone about me."
VANN: The warning signs were all there. I mean, he had the enduring interest in serial killers and Hitler. He had the lifelong interest in horror movies.
BOUDREAU: He even sent a friend a link to a Virginia Tech shooting game. Chief Grady would not talk to us about the "Saw" movies on camera, but he did acknowledge they were important to understanding why Kazmierczak did what he did. Then came February 2008. Records show Kazmierczak began buying ammunition and guns.
VANN: This e-mail with his friends starts mentioning planning world domination and talking about mass murder.
BOUDREAU: He stayed at this travel lodge near campus. These are the police photos from inside that room. Jessica Baty told CNN that he called her one final time on the eve of his rampage, telling her he loved her.
JESSICA BATY, FORMER GIRLFRIEND: He called me before he was going to go to bed and he said that, you know, he told me not to forget about him and he told me that he would see me tomorrow. And then when we got off the phone, he said goodbye, Jessica. And he never said goodbye, Jessica.
BOUDREAU: The next day, on Valentine's Day, she started receiving gifts in the mail from him -- cash, books for school, a purse, earrings, and an engagement ring. On one package, he used the name Robert Paulson, and his old NIU apartment as the return address. Robert Paulson was a character in the movie "Fight Club." Vann said it appeared Kazmierczak identified with the main character of that movie, who struggled with his sexuality.
On February 14th, Kazmierczak parked his car outside Cole Hall, a building he once had classes in. Police reports show he had a Marilyn Manson song "The Last Day on Earth" on a CD titled "Final CD" in his car.
Then with only a few minutes remaining of class, he walked onto the auditorium stage, pulled out his gun and fired, killing five, injuring 18, and then killing himself. It was all over in a matter of minutes. Chief Grady says he is still investigating this case, though it's no longer considered a high priority since the killer is dead.
CHIEF DONALD GRADY, NIU POLICE: This one individual came in and certainly caused a great deal of trauma to this institution. Am I angry about that? You're absolutely right. Do I ever want to see that happen again? No, not ever. Not here, not anywhere else. And I really don't want to glamorize what it is that an individual such as that has done and give him more credit and more credibility than he deserves.
BOUDREAU: David Vann, who wrote the book "Legend of a Suicide" says there's still much to learn from this shooting. It wasn't until after his article appeared in "Esquire" magazine about the NIU shooting that perhaps he learned the most about Kazmierczak. And maybe just how much the movie character Jigsaw influenced him. He got an e-mail from Jessica Baty.
VANN: She sent me an e-mail afterward, even after she read the story where she reasserted that, you know, "but you didn't get everything in the story." She said, "You know, you don't understand. We were going to move to Vegas. We were going to have babies. We were going to, you know, spend the rest of our lives together."
BOUDREAU: The e-mail then reveals how everything seemed to be a test set for her by Kazmierczak, like the people he met on Craigslist. She wrote, "The people on the Internet was like my final exam. Now I know that NIU was my final test."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BOUDREAU: Now, I've recently talked to Jessica Baty over the phone. She told me that she, too, wishes a full police investigation will be released soon and that she feels it's important to both her and the victims to understand what truly happened that day. I asked her to sit down with me for another interview but she said it was just too painful for her and her family to appear once again on camera. I can imagine that.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: And it seems painful, too, to the NIU police chief. I mean, he has some very strong feelings about it. You saw it there. But he still doesn't think there were any warning signs, Abbie? BOUDREAU: He doesn't. He doesn't necessarily feel that people can predict when someone is going to snap. And he also said about the experts that -- the people that feel that they can predict these types of warning signs or red flags that he's critical of them, saying, you know, is it really possible that you can predict this kind of behavior? And then, once you predict it, what are you supposed to do about it? And that's, of course, you know, we're going to talk about that.
LEMON: Yes, we're going to talk about that. Yes. Very strong feelings here. You said his ex-girlfriend too emotional about it. Also, you say that the police chief --
BOUDREAU: It causes a lot of pain for her to just go back on camera. That's what she said.
LEMON: And her family, yes...
BOUDREAU: And her friends, not only for her. I'm sure it's really difficult to talk about this kind of stuff but for her family and for her friends.
LEMON: So, Abbie told you what the ex-girlfriend had to say. You heard the police chief in that segment right there. That's what he has to say. But we're going to ask an expert -- if all of this is true, if any of it makes sense. Have the shootings at Virginia Tech and NIU changed the way we deal with seemingly troubled people? We'll dig for some answers for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: So we have been talking this hour about the NIU massacre and the man behind the murders. One year ago, former student Steven Kazmierczak gunned down five students and then killed himself at Northern Illinois University.
Tonight, we want to know this -- is there really any way to know whether someone is capable of mass murder? Kris Mohandie is a forensic pathologist.
Kris, thank you for joining us today -- joining me here as well as our Abbie Boudreau, who did the special investigation. So, I'm going to start up by asking you this -- is there any way really that you can -- to know whether someone is capable of mass murder?
KRIS MOHANDIE, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. As a forensic psychologist through the years we've learned from studying these cases that there are warning signs in at least two-thirds to three-quarters of them, probably more, because what you've notice is as you've been digging here, more information has been revealed.
In all fairness to the chief, that information didn't get to him or his people, but people around the offender in this case and in the other cases, like Columbine and Virginia Tech were alarmed and didn't know what to do with that information, didn't know what to make of it. BOUDREAU: But it's interesting here because the NIU police chief that I talked to, he said you can't predict this kind of behavior. And he said that experts like yourself and the job that you do, that is just merely a mental exercise. What's your response to that?
MOHANDIE: Well, my response to that comment is that he's wrong, that in fact throughout the country, throughout North America, there are many institutions, universities, schools that are putting together teams of mental health, law enforcement, attorneys and so forth to process information that is brought forward by students, concerned family members in order to look deeper to see if the person is not just talking about it but engaging in attack-related behavior such as weapons seeking and so forth.
So, the threat assessment team approach is a relatively new one over the last few years at university campuses and it does in fact work. Yes, you will get some false positives, where you look at people that are interested in violent movies, talking about violence and so forth.
LEMON: And you know what, Kris, you bring up a good point. One of our viewers writes, and I think you sort of answered this. Ctguy2675 says, "Very dark aspects to the personality of NIU killer. But how can we tell when people like this will snap?"
I'm going to go a little bit further and ask you...
MOHANDIE: OK.
LEMON: How do you -- you know, you heard the chief say, I see girls walking around with dog collars on them, that's not normal. How do you do this without profiling people? Because there are some people who are pretty eccentric, who may be odd, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're a killer.
MOHANDIE: If you're walking around with a dog collar, if you are getting a "Saw" tattoo as he did, that's just one level of behavior. What you're looking for is the person who is talking about violent fantasies, who has an excessive interest in violence across a variety of settings. And then you look at the history, in this case, where there's been suicidality in the past, multiple hospitalizations, for example.
There's just a lot of different areas that you would look at. And certainly, the talking about it and the fantasy life and the obsession with these people who have done such terrible things should get you looking at them real hard to see if you really have somebody you should be concerned about or not, specifically at that point to look and see if there's any weapons seeking or other behaviors and history.
LEMON: Kris Mohandie is a forensic pathologist, and we thank you, both Abbie and I, for joining us tonight.
MOHANDIE: Thank you for having me.
LEMON: We really appreciate it. You know, it is a loss that parents will never recover from, Abbie. And I want you to take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wake up in the morning thinking about her. Any time that I've got a free moment -- it will pop up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Boy, this is -- this one's hard really to listen to. The parents of NIU shooting victim Ryanne Mace speak out about their loss and their thoughts about Steven Kazmierczak. Our special look into the NIU shootings continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: One year later and not much has changed for family members of those who were gunned down at Northern Illinois University last Valentine's Day. Five students were killed, nearly 20 wounded. Their lives cut short. And now, many of those close to the victims try to cope exactly one year after their world came crashing down. Our Special Investigations Unit correspondent Abbie Boudreau has their stories.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOUDREAU (voice over): He says he thought he was giving his daughter good advice.
ERIC MACE, FATHER OF RYANNE MACE: What I want you to do is I'd like you to sit in the front row of every class that you're in.
BOUDREAU: So, 19-year-old Ryanne Mace took her father's advice. Now, he wishes she hadn't.
E. MACE: She was, from what I understand, in the front row of that room and was probably the first one that had shots fired at her. If I would have said, always sit at the back of the room so you can get out of there and get to your next class fast, it might have saved her life. And -- it's not an easy thing to carry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And someone keeps tying purple ribbons. Purple was her favorite color.
BOUDREAU: This tree was planted in her memory on NIU's campus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would have been 20.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She missed it by a couple of months.
BOUDREAU: Ryanne was one of the five NIU students killed that day.
E. MACE: We don't have a head stone for her. Maybe that's kind of what this is.
BOUDREAU: She was Eric and Mary Kay Mace's only child. MARY KAY MACE, MOTHER OF RYANNE MACE: It's difficult. There's always an ache, a loneliness and a longing. And we're going to miss her every day for the rest of our lives.
E. MACE: I go to bed thinking about her. I wake up in the morning thinking about her. Any time that I've got a free moment -- it will pop up.
BOUDREAU: Her parents say they would like to know more about the police investigation into the shooting, and about Steven Kazmierczak's mental illness and the medication he was taking. They also question why Kazmierczak, who had a lengthy history of mental health problems, going back to his childhood, was legally able to buy guns.
M. MACE: Somewhere along the line, the pertinent information didn't get into the right database and he could waltz out of a store with a legally purchased weapon. And I don't get that.
BOUDREAU: Kazmierczak was able to purchase guns in Illinois because more than five years had passed since he was treated voluntarily at this mental health facility.
E. MACE: The one thing that's kind of ironic about it is that she always did have sort of a fascination with people who had minds like the person who took her life.
BOUDREAU: Ryanne was studying psychology, and her parents created a scholarship foundation for psychology majors in honor of their daughter. They say they hope it encourages others to help fix broken minds, like that of the man who killed Ryanne.
BOUDREAU (on camera): Do you want people to remember that day?
E. MACE: Absolutely. I don't want them to -- I don't want them to forget a single detail about it, because the details aren't going to change just by forgetting about them. I want Ryanne to be remembered. I want Catalina and Gayle and Julianna and Dan to be remembered as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Abbie, I remember that hill where those crosses where many of the candle light vigils would be held right there. That was a year ago when we were both on that campus. What's it like there today? I mean, do people still think about it? Is it sort of an eerie feeling?
BOUDREAU: Well, it's hard to figure how everyone feels. But a lot of the people we talked to, some are coping, they're trying to move forward. But other people we talked to are just angry. They want that police investigation, full thing, to come out, to be released so that they can find out exactly what happened. Some are saying, you know, are they hiding something? Why aren't they releasing it?
Because when you think back to Virginia Tech, they had studies, they had, you know, so much research that was coming out, reports that were made available to the public. The whole file is public. In this case, not so much. And with NIU, the police chief, he says that they're still investigating. Of course, he says, no longer a high priority. There's a lot that still needs to come out about this.
LEMON: Still that geology hall, not open to the public.
BOUDREAU: Not open to the public, no.
LEMON: Abbie, great reporting, really. Thank you very much for that.
Out on the town. We're going to tell you about that. It's part transition here, but it is a special Valentine's night for the first lady and the president.
Plus, we'll also have this for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. COLIN POWELL, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: It hit me. It hit me emotionally. I was expecting him. I supported him. I voted for him. But it was still an electric shock.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Colin Powell shares his emotional thoughts on President Barack Obama becoming the first African-American to win that seat.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. Here's some of your feedback. Scb4vp says, "Oh, boy, that NIU special took a lot out of me. Quite emotionally draining. Great report by Miss Boudreau."
Here's what Ponet says. "All the signs are there and people choose to be oblivious to them. People have to investigate and take responsibility. Help."
Ctguy2675 says, "These types of shootings are far too common. Perhaps we need to address the gun culture that seems to enable these tragedies."
Make sure you become part of our show here. Log on to Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com. Tell us what you're thinking.
Also tonight, feeling the love this Valentine's Day. The president and first lady are out on the town. We'll tell you which town.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Hey, we know it's serious business out there. But guess what? The president gets time to hang out, too. It's Valentine's Day. New video in tonight. President Obama and First Lady Michelle after a romantic night out on the town. The First Couple had dinner at Table 52, the restaurant owned by Oprah's former chef, Art Smith. That was in Chicago. One of Obama's biggest fans, Secretary of State Colin Powell, I should say the former. Take a look at what he said about his win.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POWELL: It hit me. It hit me emotionally. I was expecting him. I supported him. I voted for him. But it was still an electric shock. I just sat down in my chair. And my kids were crying. And I said to myself, we did it. We actually did it. What a great country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: More of our conversation tomorrow night, 7:00 and 10:00 p.m. Eastern. I'm Don Lemon in Atlanta. I'll see you back here tomorrow night, 7:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. Eastern. "LARRY KING LIVE" begins right now.
