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Governors Weigh in on Economic Plan; Cold Case Turns Hot; 11- Year-Old Murder Suspect; Women as Breadwinners in Recession
Aired February 21, 2009 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was an invitation to assassination of the president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the anger is growing. Outrage over an attempt at political satire fuels protests and demands that someone is fired and it could go much further than that. We will tell you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In things racial, we have always been and I believe continue to be in too many ways essentially a nation of cowards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: No one wants to be called a coward. The new and first African-American attorney general also adding to the racial firestorm, saying that Americans are cowards. The debate rages on blogs at home, at the water cooler and right here on this newscast. Make sure you logon to our discussions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a life sentence of hurt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: She says it was a life sentence of hurt. The mother of slain Washington intern Chandra Levy tells me what police told her about a break in her daughter's 8-year-old murder case.
Also tonight, I'm Don Lemon. Tracking your stimulus. When will you see the money, and will it be enough to make a difference?
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My role is now in addition to looking for a job, I'm a house dad. My wife is now instead of being the house mom, she's now the breadwinner. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We're going to talk about what happens when she works after he gets fired. Some women are becoming the main breadwinners in the troubled times. The news starts right now.
UNIDENTIFIED ANNOUNCER: Live in the CNN NEWSROOM, Don Lemon.
Good evening, everyone. We'll get to our discussion about race in just a moment. But first, we want to start with the economy and a pay raise. Barack Obama says he has one for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Because of what we did, 95 percent of all working families will get a tax cut in keeping with a promise I made on the campaign. And I'm pleased to announce that this morning, the Treasury Department began directing employers to reduce the amount of taxes withheld from paychecks, meaning that by April 1st, a typical family will begin taking home at least $65 more every month. Never before in our history has a tax cut taken effect faster or gone to so many hard-working Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, it may not seem like a lot of money, but some economists believe smaller amounts are much more likely to be spent immediately and thereby help stimulate the economy.
The stimulus package is vitally important to all 50 governors meeting this weekend in Washington for their convention. But the Republican governors of South Carolina, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas aren't quick to put out their hands. One of them calls a plan too big and too wasteful. Another says he may reject some of it. A couple of Democratic governors say they'll take the money with a dose of caution, though.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ED RENDELL (D), PENNSYLVANIA: The states are not off the hook. We are doing difficult and challenging things ourselves. We are assuming the burden, and this doesn't get us off the hook. This helps us, this stops us from having massive layoffs, incredible reductions in services that would have exposed our citizens to tremendous personal risks.
I was asked by somebody, what's the mood in Pennsylvania about the stimulus package? And I said, 10 percent of the people don't like it very much. 10 percent of the people are enthusiastic. And the other 80 percent are waiting to see how it works.
GOV. JOE MANCHIN (D), WEST VIRGINIA: The direction I gave everyone in my agency is to make sure, first of all, that when you spend a dollar, are you saving a job or creating a job? If not, are you digging a hole deeper?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, the stimulus bill passed with almost no Republican support. Republicans say they want to work with the Obama administration, but they're waiting to see if the president's new budget next week. They want to see if he's committed to controlling spending.
The latest CNN opinion research poll breaks it down like this. 89 percent of Democrats surveyed support the stimulus. That's compared to 52 percent of independents and only 22 percent of Republicans. Overall, six out of 10 Americans surveyed say they support the stimulus, but only about 3 of 10 believe the plan will help them personally.
President Barack Obama inherited a $1.3 trillion budget deficit from the Bush administration. And tonight CNN has learned that Mr. Obama plans to unveil his plan Thursday to cut that deficit in half by the end of his first term. An administration official says the proposal will call for raising taxes on those making more than $250,000 a year, spending less on the Iraq war and trimming the federal government.
On Thursday -- on Tuesday night, I should say, President Barack Obama addresses Congress at 9:00 Eastern. Of course, you will see him live on CNN, followed by Anderson Cooper and the Best Political Team on Television. And at midnight, a special edition of "LARRY KING LIVE." Remember, you can watch along with your Facebook friends right at cnn.com live.
And tonight a new development tonight in the mystery that many people thought might never be solved. Eight years after the brutal murder of Chandra Levy, where her mother says police are about to make an arrest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The case of the congressman and the missing intern.
LEMON (voice-over): It was a case that shocked the nation in 2001. 24-year-old Chandra Levy, graduate student at the University of Southern California and a federal government intern who disappeared in Washington on May 1st of that year. Levy's remains were found a year later in Washington's Rock Creek Park. Now eight years after the trail seemed to have gone cold, a potential break in the case.
A source close to the investigation confirms that the suspect in the Chandra Levy case is Ingmar Guandique. He is a laborer from El Salvador, who is already serving a ten-year prison sentence for two assaults in Rock Creek Park that same year. Guandique has denied any involvement in her death. For Chandra Levy's parents, who have been told an arrest is imminent, it is a glimmer of hope in the search for justice.
SUSAN LEVY, MOTHER OF CHANDRA LEVY: It's hard not having your child with you. I mean, you want justice. You want the person, you know, incarcerated, and you want justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Want him put away.
S. LEVY: This shouldn't happen to anyone.
LEMON: Much of the media attention on the case was because of Levy's involvement with then U.S. Congressman Condit. Condit, a seven-term Democrat, was then having an affair with Levy, who was from his California district. Police never named Condit a suspect, but he was defeated in his 2002 re-election campaign. Condit now lives in Arizona.
In a statement, he says, he's grateful that the Levy Family is getting the answers they deserved. He went on to say "It is unfortunate that an insatiable appetite for sensationalism blocked so many from searching for the real answers for so long. I had always hoped to have the opportunity to tell my side of this story, but too many were not prepared to listen. Now I plan to do so."
For the Levys, one chapter might be closing but the sorrow lingers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's more towards --
S. LEVY: Painful, no matter what --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, it's painful.
S. LEVY: Your child is dead and gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Until we get over there and see him again.
S. LEVY: And it's painful, but we're glad that the police and people are doing something and investigating and making a difference. So somebody's not on the street to do it again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Susan Levy is trying to turn her loss into an opportunity to help others. She helped create a support group for people with missing love ones. I spoke to her earlier tonight about the dramatic development in her daughter's case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What are you hoping to get from this? I know that, you know, it's tough because your daughter --
VOICE OF SUSAN LEVY, MOTHER OF CHANDRA LEVY: I want justice. No matter what, it's a bittersweet situation for me as a family member, mother of a daughter who's no longer here. But I want justice. I want to know that the person that did it is in jail and will not ever do it to anybody else.
LEMON: Can you tell our viewers what you have been doing and what that's been like for you and your family? S. LEVY: Well, every day the elephant's there. Every day you get a knot in your stomach. It doesn't go away. It's a life sentence for the families and relatives that missed their loved ones. So we have a life sentence of hurt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Susan Levy, mother of Chandra Levy, murdered Washington intern.
A shocking story out of western Pennsylvania to tell you about. Adult homicide charges have been filed against an 11-year-old boy. He's accused of fatally shooting his dad's girlfriend, who was eight months pregnant. The boy has been arraigned and is in a county jail tonight. The arrest makes this tragedy doubly painful.
Marc Willis of our affiliate WPXI filed this report before anyone suspected the victim might have been killed by a family member.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARC WILLIS, WPXI CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With lights all and sirens sound, a caravan of emergency vehicles leaves the scene of a homicide in Lawrence County. As family members try to comfort one another and come to grips with their loss.
JACK HOUK, VICTIM'S FATHER: I wouldn't know anybody in the whole world who would want to kill a 26-year-old beautiful daughter like mine and take a child. I don't know who would be crazy enough or nutty enough to want to do something like that. There's got to be something.
WILLIS: Friday morning around 10:00, police were called to the 1100 block of Wampum-New Galilee Road in New Beaver Borough, Lawrence County. Inside, they found 26-year-old Kenzie Houk in a bedroom dead from a gunshot wound. A mother of two, Kenzie was pregnant with her third child. In fact, Houk's 4-year-old daughter was the one who alerted a man in the area trimming trees that something was wrong with her mother.
STEVE CABLE, CALLED POLICE: We had a little girl come to the door and told us that her mommy had passed away and were crying. I called 911.
WILLIS: It's been a difficult day for friends and family members who know and love Kenzie.
HOUK: And the thing that hurts me the worse that I can't remember the last time I really told her I loved her. And that will hurt me the rest of my life.
WILLIS: Who in two weeks was expected to bring a new life into the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LEMON: Well, police have offered no motive in this case. The boy is jailed on charges of criminal homicide and criminal homicide of an unborn child. Police say the apparent weapon was a youth model shotgun that belonged to the boy. Such guns are designed for children to hunt with and don't have to be registered.
We want to know what's on your mind tonight. We want you to be part of our community here on this broadcast. Logon to Twitter, to Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com. We will get your comments on the air tonight.
Severe weather is moving into the west. Let's go straight now to our meteorologist Jacqui Jeras with the very latest.
Jacqui?
(WEATHER REPORT)
LEMON: Oh, yes. We know all too well. Thank you, Jacqui.
The attorney general makes a bold statement about race relations in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC HOLDER, FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: One cannot truly understand America without understanding the historical experience of black people in this nation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, if he wanted our attention, he certainly has it now. We will talk race in America and the cartoon that sparked a raging controversy over race and the presidency.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It feels a little bit like I'm swimming very much upstream.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Faces of recession. Changing faces and a changing dynamic in homes across the country. The economic crisis bending genders.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Well, tonight the issue of race in America. Attorney General Eric Holder labeled America a nation of cowards when he -- when it came to talking about race. Do you agree with that? Also that cartoon in "The New York Post," sparking some outrage. Make sure you join our discussion tonight right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Many of you are weighing in. Here's what Raffal007 says "It is a stupid cartoon, but I disagree." Theheroworkshop says "I think the ad was saying the stimulus bill was clearly written by monkey because it is dumb. Maybe I'm not good at cynicism."
SizzleMayfield says, "This proves that racism in America is alive and well. No matter how far we come as productive citizens, there is always negativity."
And Directthought says, "The NAACP should not even have comments like that. Yes, that's really forwardly progressive."
Logon to Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com. Tell us what you're thinking. We will get your comments on the air tonight. We want you to be part of our discussion about race here.
Meantime, the millions of Americans who have lost their jobs in the recession know how painful it is to adjust to life without a paycheck. It can be even tougher when your marriage and your home life are turned upside down. CNN's Mary Snow shows us how the dynamics are changing for many families.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL SHELTON, UNEMPLOYED: Bye, love.
SUSAN SCHWAB SHELTON, WINE TASTING ROOM MANAGER/ART TEACHER: Bye-bye.
SHELTON: We will see you.
SCHWAB SHELTON: OK.
SNOW (voice-over): The economic crisis has shifted the ground for Susan and Michael Shelton.
SHELTON: My role is now, in addition to looking for a job, I'm a -- I'm a house dad. My wife is now -- instead of being the house mom, she's now the -- the breadwinner.
I guess we should go ahead and feed the dogs.
SNOW: Michael Shelton lost his job as a sales manager in January.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How was your day?
SCHWAB SHELTON: It was good.
SNOW: Susan, who used to work part-time, now works two jobs.
SCHWAB SHELTON: I will be, you know, out of the house six to seven days every week. So, that is very different, and -- and getting home much later.
SNOW: Michael is now running their home in Los Olivos, California, taking care of their two children and dogs. SHELTON: All the things that, to be perfectly honest, I used to take for granted is now, you know, my responsibility. So, easing into that is -- is proving challenging for me.
SNOW: Michael scours job postings, hoping to find work soon.
DR. ELIZABETH NILSON, PHYSICIAN: Look, that's it. We're almost there.
SNOW: But ask another family in the same situation, and Adam Ostrow can tell you, be prepared for the long haul.
ADAM OSTROW, UNEMPLOYED: It feels a little bit like I'm swimming very much upstream.
SNOW: Adam has been out of work for a year, an early casualty of the credit crunch in New York's financial industry. His primary job now is to take care of sons Isaac and William.
And, Elizabeth, who is a physician, is the sole breadwinner, changing life as they knew it.
NILSON: I went in November once to pick up Isaac from school, and the teacher didn't know who I was.
SNOW: The family is now moving to Massachusetts, where Elizabeth could get a new job, and it will be more affordable to live.
What has happened to the Ostrow and Shelton family, says one economist, is likely to be happening to millions more.
HEATHER BOUSHEY, SENIOR ECONOMIST, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: You have seen more and more men lose their jobs. And you have seen some women lose their jobs, but not as many as men. And you have also seen that, once those men get out of work, they have had a very difficult time getting back into the -- the labor market.
SNOW: One reason men are harder-hit, male-dominated industries, like construction and manufacturing, have had big job losses because of the collapse in the housing bubble.
(on camera): And economists point out that with more families depending on a woman's salary, they are also living on less money. Since women on average lag behind men when it comes to pay. Mary Snow, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: It's really amazing what this economy is uncovering. Gender role, race. All kinds of topic. You see the couple there on the left. That's the couple who is in Mary Snow's story just now. We're going to talk with them in just a little bit.
And we'll also talk to our resident psychologist, Dr. Glory Marrow. There she is on the right. She's going to talk to us about how to cope with a changing household. Just moments away. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: You have to leverage your network. Are you on (INAUDIBLE), are you on Facebook, you have to tell everyone you know -- you have to tell everyone you know that you're looking for a job. But don't seem desperate. Don't be a nuisance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: From the mouths of babes, huh? Well, a laid-off father takes advice from his children and his family finds humor in a horrible economy. Get a job, daddy. That's what they're saying.
Well, a few minutes ago, you saw the story of a family struggling through this recession with the wife as the primary breadwinner while the husband is the stay-at-home dad. Adam Ostrow and his wife. Dr. Elizabeth Nilson joins us from New York along with our clinical psychologist, Dr. Gloria Morrow who is on the show all the time. She's part of our family here.
Elizabeth and Adam, thank you so much for joining us.
OSTROW: Thanks for having us.
NILSON: Thanks.
LEMON: The economy and what's shaping up in the job market unwittingly made you have to confront gender roles in a way that you didn't think you'd have to.
ADAM OSTROW, UNEMPLOYED: Precisely. I took for granted a lot that when I worked full time and my wife worked full time, I would come home and dinner was on the table and the kids were clean, and in the morning, kids were put off to school. But once I lost my job and my wife had the burden of, you know, feeding the family and earning the salary, a lot of those chores became mine, but I have come to embrace them as I have been able to do them longer, and I realize that it's a lot of work to do those things that I didn't really know how much work it was.
LEMON: Oh look at that. You have a new appreciation, don't you?
OSTROW: Yes.
NILSON: I do. Because I've always been working full time, and so -- and I just was doing all of the stuff on top of it. And it was totally exhausting. And so when Adam got out of work, I sort of got the wife I'd hope I'd get. At some point we used to joke about it. But it's, you know, it's sobering when you realize, you know, both of us work full time yet, you know, I think women probably disproportionately end up doing a lot of the chores at home.
Even when, you know, Adam was a great dad, you know, gave plenty of dad things, (INAUDIBLE) LEMON: He still didn't do as much around the house as you did?
NILSON: Yes, you know -- it's just the sort of -- actually, sort of the less fun stuff, the less glamorous stuff behind the scenes, you know, making sure that we had stuff to cook and what the dinner plan was.
LEMON: Well, Elizabeth, you know what, I want to let Dr. Gloria Morrow weigh in on this, because Dr. Morrow, we have been talking about this economy. And it's really uncovering a whole lot of things for us, our gender roles, the way we communicate in marriage, race.
And, you know, I guess maybe at the bottom of everything, it could be money, who knows. But, you know, all these issues are coming up. What's at the very basis of it? Is it that we have to learn to communicate with each other differently?
DR. GLORIA MORROW, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, we have been very spoiled in America. And now that we are having all of these challenges, it is forcing us to reevaluate the way we are engaging in our family life. And couples are especially -- it's especially important for couples to begin to talk more and to communicate about how they're feeling about the economy, how they're feeling about these changes that are taking place and develop strategies for overcoming them.
LEMON: Dr. Morrow, I want to ask you this because I think it's like 80 percent of the people who are affected in the job market now who are losing their jobs are men. So then women are going to be, you know, breadwinners more than ever now. You know us guys, we're not used to doing all of this stuff. Our jobs really are a big part of our self-esteem. So what can women do in order to support their husbands? Men may need a little bit more support at this time than others, but what can women do? Because women are, you know, can deal usually with everything.
MORROW: Well, men need to feel appreciated. So even if they don't fold the clothes the way you would like them to fold the clothes, then it's so important for you to praise them and to show appreciation for the small things that they may be doing.
LEMON: Yes.
MORROW: But, you know, I'm also concerned, Don, because sometimes men aren't able to do very much during this time because they are grieving the loss of a job. And some of them are depressed. And they may not feel like getting up moving. They may not feel like, you know, going out even to look for work. So this is a very important time for couples to bond together and to try to talk and understand how they are feeling during this time.
LEMON: Adam, maybe you can relate to that in some way. What kind of job are you looking for?
OSTROW: I worked in the securities industry for a little over 20 years. And the problem I'm facing is these mergers and disappearance of major Wall Street brokerage firms has created a little bit of a supply and demand problem with a lot of firms not looking for people like me right now because of the redundancies in the mergers, where two firms that had a sales force don't need the second sales force after they merge.
LEMON: The job market is absolutely changing. Real quickly, I don't have much time here. You guys -- what's the biggest lesson for all of you, Elizabeth or Adam?
NILSON: You know, I think we've -- you know, we've been at this now almost a year, but I think we've tried to look at the bright side. You know, we spend more time together. We've, you know, figured out how to do still enjoyable things that don't cost so much money. The outdoors is, you know, a cheap place to be. And I think it's made us realize that as we go forward, we really want to find sort of better balance in our lives.
LEMON: Elizabeth and Adam, it sounds like you have been listening to Dr. Morrow. She says that all the time. Hey, thank you, all. And we appreciated the conversation tonight.
OSTROW: Thank you, Don.
NILSON: Thanks.
MORROW: Thank you.
LEMON: A lot of you had been weighing in on some of the topics here tonight. Here's what Easternstar25 says "My income never did count. Always save, not must use. Less to save, all funds count in a household now."
GrouchyMatthew says, "Gender bender makes sense. Women go after skills and smarts for jobs. Men go after brawn and muscles. Which one is sinking?"
I don't know which one is sinking? Join our show tonight. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, iReport.com. We will get your comments on the air tonight. We appreciate you.
Meantime, the cartoon that has set off a national argument over race and the presidency, plus we'll have this for you --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLDER: In things racial, we have always been and we, I believe, continue to be in too many ways essentially a nation of cowards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: A nation of cowards. A nation of cowards. The attorney general makes a bold and controversial statement. Are we? And was that the right setting for a statement? We'll talk about it. And you will join in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: All right, guys. We're going to talk now about something that the nation has been talking about all this week. A nation of cowards. A nation of cowards. That's what Attorney General Eric Holder says. And because in his opinion, we don't spend enough time talking about race. We're going to play a big chunk of what he said, because we want you to get the context of his speech. A speech that he made to the Department of Justice workers. Then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOLDER: Though this nation has proudly thought of itself as an ethnic melting pot, in things racial we have always been and we, I believe, continue to be in too many ways essentially a nation of cowards. Though race-related issues continue to occupy a significant portion of our political discussion and though there remain many unresolved racial issues in this nation, we, average Americans, simply do not talk enough with each other about things racial. It is an issue that we have never been at ease with and given our nation's history, this is in some ways understandable. And yet if we are to make progress in this area, we must feel comfortable enough with one another and tolerant enough of each other to have frank conversations about the racial matters that continue to divide us.
But we must do more. And we in this room bear a special responsibility through its work and through its example. The Department of Justice, this Department of Justice, as long as I'm here, must and will lead the nation to the new birth of freedom so long ago promised by our greatest president. This is our duty. This is our solemn responsibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So, is Eric Holder right? Is he right? Are we a nation of cowards when it comes to talking honestly about race?
We put the question to this distinguished panel that you're going to see right here. Our national conversation about race in America. We also put the question to you. We want your comments. We're going to present them to this panel and we're going to talk openly about race. We're not holding back. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. So, we're talking about the issue of race in America. Just before the break, we played Attorney General Eric Holder's comments this week on race, including his most-talked about remark saying we're, quote, "a nation of cowards" when it comes to talking about race. Are we?
Let's get the discussion going right now. Joining us is Mary Frances-Berry. She's a professor of American Social Thought at the University of Pennsylvania. Marisa Trevino, founder and editor of Latinalista.net. And Carmen Van Kerckhove, the co-founder and president of New Demographic, which is a consulting firm that raises awareness about race and about racism. Thank you all for joining me here tonight. All right. So let's talk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
LEMON: Mary Frances-Berry, African-American woman, we can see, it's obvious that you are. Were you offended by Eric Holder's remarks? Were they ill-timed or ill-placed?
MARY FRANCES-BERRY, UNIV. OF PENNSYLVANIA: I thought -- I thought his remarks were gutsy and I even left a message, called him and told him so. I think cowardice means -- to be a coward is to shirk from, to be fearful about the confrontation, and when it comes to talking about racism, especially, and race, we do not, as a people, like to talk about the issue and we avoid discussing it.
And I think he's right and I think his words that he used in context to show say clearly that all he was doing was admonishing people to deal seriously with these issues. He was not trying to offend anyone.
LEMON: Marisa?
FRANCES-BERRY: If he used some other word, then what would we be saying?
LEMON: Marisa, do you agree with that?
MARISA TREVINO, LATINALISTA.NET: Yes, I do. I certainly do because what he was saying was something that I see happening on my blog all the time. People are afraid to talk about race because they're afraid of being labeled racist or thinking that their opinions or their perspectives are considered racist by somebody else. And most people don't want to be considered racist.
LEMON: OK.
TREVINO: Yet, you know, here we don't have honest, frank discussions about it and so it leaves a lot to the other person to interpret.
LEMON: All right. I'm going to play a little bit of something, a very intense conversation that happened on one of our programs earlier this week, "AC360." It was Ron Christie. He doesn't agree with what you two said. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON CHRISTIE, FMR. DOMESTIC POLICY ADVISER TO PRES. BUSH: This is not a nation of cowards. This is a country of great patriots. And to say that this is a nation of cowards, I think denigrates much of the work that many women and many men have done, black and white, many different races and colors, to make sure that we look and are a race- blind society.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: Carmen?
FRANCES-BERRY: No, I don't want Carmen, please. We argue all the time.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hang on, Mary. We're going to get to you. But Carmen hasn't got a chance to speak yet.
FRANCES-BERRY: Ron is off-base. Ron is off-base.
LEMON: All right. Let's let Carmen in there. Carmen, go ahead.
CARMEN VAN KERCKHOVE, NEW DEMOGRAPHIC: Clearly, the word cowardice has brought out everybody's inner Marty McFly. And so I think that that's where a lot of the blow bag is coming from.
But, you know, what he said is essentially true. Conversations, honest, open conversations about race, rarely happen in the United States. And when they do happen, they tend to happen within ethnic groups. I think one of the big problems is there isn't enough conversation across racial or ethnic lines.
So, you know, me commiserating with other Asian-Americans about this particular issue is not quite the same thing as really getting other people involved in our conversations.
LEMON: OK, Mary, you are so gung-ho about this. So, let me -- let me let you get in here.
FRANCES-BERRY: I was saying...
LEMON: Because -- I mean, why are people offended then? Why are some people offended by the notion that calling Americans' cowardice when it comes to race? Why are people offended by that?
FRANCES-BERRY: First of all, Ron should know -- and he's a wonderful guy, that Eric was not talking about anybody's patriotism. I mean, he would be the last person to impugn anyone's patriotism. He wasn't talking in that sense. I have already said, coward means to shirk from, to not want to confront, to not want to deal with. And in that sense, he was -- he was correct.
And the important thing to remember is he doesn't want us just to talk about it. We need to talk about it because we need to deal with it. But the only way you're going to deal with it is to acknowledge it. And I think it's entirely correct, as Carmen said, we need to talk across racial and ethnic lines.
LEMON: OK.
FRANCES-BERRY: Not just, you know, black people talking to black people and white people talking to white and Latinos and Asian- Americans talking to each other.
LEMON: And doing it in a vacuum. Hang on. I want -- I want some reviewers to get in.
FRANCES-BERRY: And native Americans, too.
LEMON: Yes. I want some of our viewers to get in on this. This one is coming from Facebook. His name is Mark Benavidez. He says, "I guess Holder has missed the memo. First African-American president. First African-American attorney general. Had a Hispanic attorney general before him. Women four-star generals. The list of walls coming down go on and on. I think Mr. Holder should leave his chip on his shoulder at home. As a minority myself, who came from nothing, to go to law school and face similar challenges we may have faced, we should see what accomplishments have been made instead of playing the what's wrong with America card. Look for the positive once." That's Mr. Benavidez says. So, what do you guys say?
FRANCES-BERRY: Can we comment on that?
LEMON: You can comment on that.
FRANCES-BERRY: I would like to comment on it. Disparities, disparities exist despite the fact that there are first. I've been a first this, that or the other. We always had people who were the first this, that or the other. We had people who have been secretary of state. Now we got an African-American president. But that doesn't change things like the discrimination that people face or the disparities in employment rates...
LEMON: Yes.
FRANCES-BERRY: ...or disparities in incarceration rates or the immigration problems.
LEMON: And you know what?
FRANCES-BERRY: That doesn't mean that all of the problems are solved.
LEMON: And you know, Miss Berry, the former secretary of state, Colin Powell, said the same thing to me last week. Just because we have a number of firsts doesn't mean it's the end of racism in the country.
We want to move on now. We have something else to deal with. We are talking about that cartoon. It is no laughing matter. You know what? That editorial cartoon that was in the "New York Post" -- take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. AL SHARPTON, PRES., NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: I guess they thought we really were chimpanzees! Then, they'll find out that we're lions and we're getting ready to roar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: There have been protests and there have been calls for heads to roll or else. We're going to talk about that. And we'll delve into the heat of this controversy with our panel. More on our discussion, our conversation about race in America, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK. I want to talk about that cartoon that was in the "New York Post." Let's show that cartoon. It shows someone shooting -- looks like an ape -- a monkey, and says, "They'll have to find someone else to write the next stimulus bill."
OK. People were really up in arms about this. Our panel is back now. Marisa Trevino, Carmen Van Kerckhove and Mary Frances-Berry. Anybody find this just to be political satire and just that's it?
FRANCES-BERRY: Well, I did. I thought it was political satire. It's in bad taste. But I don't expect anything different from the "New York Post." And I think people have a right to object to it. And I think that the "Post" has, of course, the right of freedom of the press, and they can, you know, publish whatever they want. And the people who were saying they want to boycott it, including Spike Lee and others, should boycott it. I'm surprised they were reading it in the first place.
LEMON: OK. Since you brought that up, I want to go to Julian Bond now at the NAACP. He's calling for someone to be fired. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIAN BOND, NAACP CHAIRMAN: This was an invitation to assassination of the president of the United States. And anyone who is not offended by it doesn't have any sensibilities. We were offended by it. I think millions and millions of people around the country, around the world, in fact, who saw it were offended by it. And we're going to try to do all we can to correct their insensibility and give them some guidance in how to behave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Carmen, should we be calling for someone to be fired over this or is this way too extreme?
KERCKHOVE: I don't think it's way too extreme. I mean, there's a long history of racist depictions linking African-Americans or black people to primates. And I'm not just talking about fringe white supremacist groups. I'm talking about mainstream pop culture. I mean, there's a whole series of Merrie Melodies cartoons, for example, that are banned now because they depict black people in this kind of light. So, these criticisms are not coming out of nowhere. They have -- they have merit.
LEMON: OK. You know what, Marisa, this does seem really ill conceived, whether or not they meant some -- you know, they had racist intent. I mean, in this day and age, and for a newspaper, a news organization that big to not think about it is -- it's almost astonishing. TREVINO: It's very insensitive. And -- but I don't think I would go as far as to have somebody fired. I think this would be a missed opportunity. I think this is the time to go in and start this dialogue on race sensitivities. There was a survey released by Unity this week where they polled 500 journalists of color, and 92 percent of them stated that mainstream media lacked covering racial issues sensitively. So I think this is an opportunity to start this dialogue going, and what better place than in the newspapers of this country.
LEMON: So you don't think that the cartoonist and the editor should be fired?
TREVINO: I think they should be reprimanded severely.
LEMON: OK.
TREVINO: But I don't think they should be fired.
LEMON: You know, I found something interesting, and someone wrote in to us and said, you know what, at one time, you know, there were a number of times that President Bush was compared to a monkey and a chimp, and they showed him. There's a website that was sort of devoted to "Bush or chimp?" and if you scroll up and down that website, you can see pictures of President Bush next to monkeys and him doing things. What's the difference? Go ahead, Mary.
FRANCES-BERRY: There's another point that I wanted to make. Remember when all of those cartoons were done of the Prophet Mohammed and there were riots and protests and people demanded that newspapers and news people be fired. And here in this country, most editorial writers said that it was a matter of freedom of the press. I thought that was tasteless and inoffensive and they should not have done it, meaning they were offending people.
LEMON: Yes.
FRANCES-BERRY: So, there's some line -- there's line-drawing to be done. But since Obama is the first African-American president, and there's a lot of sensitivity about that, I would think that responsible news organizations would be a little more sensitive to what they're doing...
LEMON: All right.
FRANCES-BERRY: ...and given the history of the kinds of depictions.
LEMON: Well, Mary, that's going to have to be the last word. You get the last word and the first word many times because you're very outspoken. We appreciate it.
FRANCES-BERRY: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Carmen, thank you.
KERCKHOVE: Thank you. LEMON: Marisa, thank you as well for joining this conversation.
TREVINO: Thank you.
LEMON: A lot of you have been weighing in on this topic this evening. We'll have your comments next on this. Don't go away. Very interesting.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: I want to tell you, we've been talking about that "Post" cartoon, and they say that, you know, it was just meant to be a cartoon about the stimulus, an ill-written, they thought, stimulus package. And they apologized to anyone who was offended. But they say some people are opportunists and the people who want to strike out against them, they're doing it because of this, and they say to them, no apology is due. Sometimes a cartoon is just a cartoon, even as the opportunists seek to make it something else. That's what the "New York Post" said.
Meantime, you're weighing in. Here's what ShuggaHall says, "The cartoon was offensive to our forefathers and should not be taken lightly. I agree with the NAACP wholeheartedly."
Lagsdotcom says, "Holder is right. Not raising frank discussion about race in America makes us cowards."
PunkiePixie says, "We're not a nation of cowards. We're a nation that believes in stereotypes. We still have segregation, but now it's by choice."
Yogifish says, "Political correctness has caused people to fear being honest when talking about racial issues in America."
LEMON: We love it when you guys comment. We want you to be part of our show, our community. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, iReport.com. We will get your comments on the air.
Meantime, they risked their lives to protect this country. Now the horrific economy hands America's war veterans another tough battle. Up next -- a vet who's on a mission to save them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Oh, man, I wish I was there. (Speaking in French) Let the good times roll. This is New Orleans. Ahead of Fat Tuesday. Mardi Gras. Despite the recession, at least for this week, people are throwing caution and a little money all to the wind for a good time down in the "Big Easy." Very cloudy and overcast, "Big Easy," I should say. Hope you guys have a great time. New Orleans certainly needs it. They need some uplifting. Be safe and careful, though. No violence.
All right. Leave no man behind. That is the goal of veteran Roy Foster. He's a man on a mission and he is a CNN hero. The 53-year- old founded Standown House that is aimed at helping homeless vets. Would you believe -- one in three homeless adults have served in the military? Standown House has helped about 900 of them so far. They're going to help a lot more. But before Roy Foster helped them, he had to quite frankly help himself -- help himself to quit booze and drugs. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROY FOSTER, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: How I can turn my back and walk away and leave you right here? I can't. Nationwide, veterans are neglected, homeless, unacceptable.
What branch of service?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Army.
FOSTER: So was I. We are still brothers-in-arms. So, no man left behind. My name is Roy Foster and my mission is to help and empower homeless veterans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Roy Foster is such a great guy. You know, he was one of CNN's heroes. You saw that story there. He is a great guy and we liked him so much we have to know more about him. I talked to him tonight about the lives he has saved, including his own.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Unfortunately, by the time that we come to the realization that we are -- have this massive problem, or the, you know, acceptance of it, we've pretty much torn our families apart.
LEMON: So you say that there are at least -- you believe 150, if not more, homeless veterans in this country. And especially now with the economy, you think it's going to get much, much worse.
FOSTER: On any given day, it could be anywhere from 150,000 to 200,000 on the streets. Is it going to get worse? Absolutely so. We are talking about the young men and women that are fighting today that will soon be coming back into this country and they're going to be faced with the challenges that we're looking at right now. The economics, just being able to transfer those skills that they had in the military, how does it translate into society here? It's going to be quite a challenge for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We salute Roy Foster and all of our heroes. You can learn more about Roy and his work right on our website. All of our CNN heroes are chosen from viewer nominations. So, if you know a hero, make sure you tell us about him or her or them. Could be a group. Just go to cnn.com/heroes.
We know times are tough. Yes, we all know that. But you're about to meet a family that found a way to laugh about the tough times. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Get out of bed.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Get out of the big bed.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: You need to find a job. You're burning daylight.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: You're burning daylight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I need them at my house in the morning, make me go to the gym. A laid off father takes advice and plenty of prodding from his children. We'll show it to you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. There's a lighter side some have found to this recession. Yes, there is one. An unemployed Georgia man hopes he'll land a job with the help of his children, of course. iReporter Jason Young says his 2-year-old daughter and 5-year-old son have been harassing him about getting some work. Well, the kids get their message across in a humorous home video. Take a look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Daddy, you got to get a job.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Get a job, daddy.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Daddy, you got to get a job.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: You got to get a job. Get a job.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Daddy, you got to get a job.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Get a job, daddy!
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: You got to get a job, daddy. You got to get a job.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Daddy, you got to get a job.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Get a job, daddy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Those kids are so cute. Why would you want to go to work and leave them? I'd be a full-time house dad if I had cute kids like that. Young says he's been out of work since November. And we truly hope that he's not out of work too much longer. So, daddy, we hope you do get a job. We appreciate your iReport, though.
Here's what KAZPORT says. He said, "Remember a chimp was shot for attacking a woman. That was part of the cartoon. Stop the racial sensitivity case in point."
Easternstar25 says, "Some think since we have first black pres that all all is forgiven. African-American should be happy now. Wow. So wrong. Let's talk."
Tpman24 says, "I don't see how the cartoon can be taken racially when it's obviously making a jab at Congress."
GrouchyMatthew says, "Editorial cartoons are meant to evoke conversation. This one did. Sounds like it did its job. We're all talking about it."
And SouthPrairieDeb says, "By claiming we don't see color, we dismiss those who must see color for they live it. Acknowledge the pain and begin to heal."
I never understood that color blind thing. Of course, everybody sees color. Doesn't mean you're influenced by it, though.
Thanks for your comments. Make sure you keep them coming. We appreciate it. I'm Don Lemon here in Atlanta. I see you -- I'll see you back here tomorrow night, 6:00 and 10:00 p.m. Eastern. "LARRY KING LIVE" begins right now.
