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AIG Paying Large Bonuses to Executives; Shuttle Discovery Set to Launch; Buying from Black Businesses Only
Aired March 15, 2009 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Live pictures now. Shuttle Discovery on the launching pad, counting down to liftoff -- you'll see it live right here.
And they made a promise to themselves to buy only from black businesses. Can they do it? Is it bias? We will ask.
Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon, live here at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
We start with the growing anger over struggling financial giant, AIG, paying millions in employee bonuses. The president's chief economic adviser calls it outrageous, and a top Senate Republican agrees. AIG is the same company that needed billions of your tax dollars just to stay afloat.
CNN's Elaine Quijano is following the story for us at the White House.
Elaine, finally, something both parties agree on that paying these bonuses is a slap in the face to taxpayers.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, Don. AIG lost $62 billion in the fourth quarter last year, but that has not stopped the company from handing out some big bonus checks.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO (voice-over): Outrage over word that AIG is doling out $165 million in planned bonuses to senior employees, despite getting $170 billion in government bailout money.
LAWRENCE SUMMERS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: There are a lot of terrible things that have happened in the last 18 months, but what's happened at AIG is the most outrageous.
QUIJANO: In a letter to Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, the company's CEO, Edward Liddy, explained: because of contracts in place before the bailout, "AIG's hands are tied" and he warned of serious legal as well as business consequences for not paying the bonuses.
In other words, AIG says it could lose its top performers to higher-paying jobs. The company could go under and the $170 billion taxpayer dollars -- all for nothing.
The Obama administration insists it did lean on AIG to pull back on the bonuses.
CHRISTINA ROMER, CHWMN., COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: We're the first people to be angry. So, absolutely, Secretary Geithner has been furious and has been pushing back, urging them to renegotiate this. We're pursuing every legal means to deal with this.
QUIJANO: The administration did get AIG to scale back some of the payments. Still, Main Street outrage is boiling, even among tourists just outside the Treasury Department.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm flabbergasted.
QUIJANO: West Virginia resident and Obama supporter, Bernard Degregorio (ph), says the AIG situation smacks of injustice -- at a time when he and other taxpayers are worried about making ends meet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they have contracts, fine, it's like re- mortgage your house. That's what we have to do. Find a way, but don't take it from me. I don't have it anymore.
QUIJANO: Laura Mekanek (ph), another Obama supporter has some something for the administration. But for AIG -- none.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's deplorable. I think it shouldn't be done whether there are contracts beforehand or not. I think it just should be -- times have changed. Things have changed and they have to change that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO: Now, an administration official insists that under AIG's restructuring agreement, taxpayers will recoup that bonus money. In the meantime, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi wants Congress to examine what legal options are available to recover taxpayer funds -- Don?
LEMON: All right, Elaine, thank you very much.
A lot of folks are outraged about this, especially our viewers. Here's what Halfwaypoint says, "If AIG had been forced into bankruptcy, those contracts could have been voided. Stock holders may sue for not doing that." Catgirl124 says, "Please let people know that most AIG employees are not greedy. We're just happy to get a paycheck."
LaughingRaccoon says, "Autoworkers had a contract and had to take a pay cut. Why not AIG fat cats? I'm officially ticked off. I want my tax money back." And Meowchi says, "The fact is, if they don't pay the bonuses required by legal contracts, then the executives can turn around and sue the company."
We want you to be on our show. Become part of our community here. Go to Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, or iReport.com. We'll get your responses on the air.
We want to tell you, this is a programming note. Beginning tomorrow, we'll get five days of unprecedented worldwide reporting on the money meltdown. Just who can lead us out of this crisis? What do all the numbers really mean? And where are the jobs?
We're explaining this crisis, breaking it down for you because we believe knowledge here is power. "Road to Rescue: The CNN Survival Guide" -- all next week only on CNN.
Back to Washington now. Former Vice President Dick Cheney has had a little time to reflect on his eight years with President Bush. Cheney spoke exclusively today on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" with John King. They talked about Iraq, the economy and the war on terror. And Cheney had some really tough comments for President Barack Obama.
Kate Bolduan reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In his first television interview since leaving the White House, former Vice President Dick Cheney criticized President Obama, telling CNN's John King, Mr. Obama is endangering the country by dismantling Bush era policies on terrorism.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Do you believe the president of United States has made Americans less safe?
DICK CHENEY, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I do. I think those programs were absolutely essential to the success we enjoyed of being able to collect the intelligence that let us defeat all further attempts to launch attacks against the United States since 9/11.
BOLDUAN: Cheney defended the Bush legacy but was conciliatory towards President Obama on Iraq for listening to his commanders on the ground. At the same time, Cheney called Iraq a success.
CHENEY: My general sense of where we are with respect to Iraq and at the end of now -- what, nearly six years -- is that we've accomplished nearly everything we set out to do.
BOLDUAN: The former vice president criticized the Obama administration for using the economic crisis to justify and force sweeping changes to health care and environmental policy. Cheney rejected the claim the Bush administration is to blame for the faltering economy, even though they came into office with a budget surplus and left with a deficit of $1.3 trillion.
CHENEY: We ended up with two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Some of that are still very active. We had major problems with respect to things like Katrina, for example. All of these things required us to spend money that we had not originally planned to spend or not originally part of the budget. Stuff happens. And the administration has to be able to respond to that, and we did.
BOLDUAN (on camera): Cheney said he disagreed with President Bush's strategy on Iran and North Korea but was careful not to criticize his former boss. There was, he said, deep disagreement, however, over his former chief of staff, Scooter Libby. Cheney said Libby was left hanging in the wind and deserved the pardon after being convicted of perjury. President Bush refused.
Kate Bolduan, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right, Kate. And just like when he was in office, Dick Cheney's comments about the war on terror are sparking debate. Pennsylvania Congressman, Joe Sestak, is a Democrat and a former Navy admiral. He told our John King that Cheney is wrong, wrong to say President Obama's policies have made you less safe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Two words. I do -- a pretty big thing for anyone to say about the president, the commander-in-chief. Do you agree with Vice President Cheney?
REP. JOE SESTAK, (D) PENNSYLVANIA: No, I don't. And that's a pretty damning two words that he said.
What he's actually suggesting is that we have to continue to compromise on what is actually the source of Americans' greatness: our principles, in order to protect those principles rather than admitting that what's really endangering our national security today is the military that is so overstretched from the tragic misadventure in Iraq. That we can't even, John, respond to any other contingency in this world.
And an economy that's in tatters is actually causing a global recession. And most of all, that the power of our ideals is one that this world no longer looks to us in order to implement across the globe. How can we saw say that keeping a man in a black hole forever, virtually in a black hole, and say, let's torture when we decide to, is what America's stance?
We're a nation of laws, not of men. And the executive branch had interpreted it and said, "No, I strongly disagree."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, you can watch more of John King's exclusive interview with the former vice president, his first since leaving office. That's tonight 8:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN, after this broadcast.
About 90 minutes from now, Space Shuttle Discovery is due to lift off for a 13-day mission to the International Space Station if -- that's if -- the weather cooperates and there are no further technical problems. Hydrogen leaks have already delayed the mission twice.
And CNN's John Zarrella is at Florida's Kennedy Space Center. And our Jacqui Jeras is monitoring here at the CNN space center -- severe weather center. She's watching it all.
Why don't we start with you, John? John, we hope all systems are go. JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, they sure are. As you mentioned, they've had a couple problems already that's kept the vehicle on the ground for about five, 5 1/2 weeks. It started with concerns over hydrogen valves and the engine compartment, paper thin cracks that they found on another shuttle's valves. So, they've changed that all. Discovery got that out of the way. Then last Wednesday, they ended up with a hydrogen leak up on the vent arm. And so, that scrubbed last Wednesday's attempt.
But now, today, everything is absolutely perfect. As Jacqui will tell you, the weather is cooperating. Not a cloud in the sky here at the Kennedy Space Center.
Thirteen-day mission to the International Space Station -- a couple big events: three space walks they're going to have. They are bringing up a piece of a piece of a truss, which is literally a backbone of the last of the backbone pieces to the space station as well as a pair of solar arrays. Those solar arrays will give full power to the space station and allow them to put six crew members on the station instead of the current complement of three.
So, Don, everything is looking great for the launch. And as you said, about an hour and a half now -- Don?
LEMON: Hey, John, what do we hear? What are these bats? What is this about a bat, I should say? What's that? Is it still there?
ZARRELLA: Oh, that's our unofficial astronaut, the first bat in space.
(LAUGHTER)
ZARRELLA: And actually, look at the shuttle model here. A black bat decided to take up residence on the back of the external tank. We don't have a picture, really, to show you.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Can you blame him? He wants to go into space as well.
ZARRELLA: He wants to go. He's still clinging on to that. They're saying it's not an issue for the launch; it's an issue for the bat.
LEMON: Yes.
ZARRELLA: Hopefully, before they'll lift off, he'll fly off. Otherwise, he's going to be one singed bat when the shuttle starts to shake, rattle and roll at 7:43. But he's still out there and still clinging on. And they can't get rid of him.
LEMON: Oh, poor little fellow. I hope he gets out of there before -- he'll be singed. John will be standing by. Thank you very much. And we will be watching. You'll see it live once Discovery takes off here, all things go as planned.
That's why we're going to talk -- thank you, John. We're going to talk to our Jacqui Jeras now.
Jacqui, we've got a bat hanging on there. And how's the weather doing for this?
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: You know, overall the weather has been great. We've got high pressure in control from the Atlantic, which has been keeping skies mostly clear and dry here today. We've been watching a couple showers off shore -- those are diminishing and moving on out. And we've also been watching the cloud deck and ceiling throughout the day today.
The skies have cleared out. It's looking fantastic. The initial launch forecast was an 80 percent go when it comes to the weather. But we literally about 10 minutes ago just got an update from the shuttle operator, Kathy Winters, saying it's 100 percent go now for a liftoff due to the weather.
LEMON: I'm curious. What did we do for bats? I remember -- it was something. I don't know if it was lime or something, maybe that's snakes to get rid of bats. But, spray it out there and get the little fellow out of there.
JERAS: It's not me (ph).
LEMON: All right, Jacqui. Jacqui is standing by as well as we prepare for the Space Shuttle Discovery going to space. She's watching the weather. John Zarrella is watching the liftoff there at Kennedy.
We all breathe a little easier, you know, this week as the markets moved up instead of moving down. But will this uptick last?
Also, putting their money where their race is -- where their color is, we should say. An African-American couple is attempting to shop only at black-owned businesses this year. They're calling it the "ebony experiment." It's an interesting conversation that you want to stick around for. We're going to have it live with them.
All the questions that you wanted to know and want answered about this, I will ask. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, iReport.com -- hey, if you want to send some questions there to this couple, they're going to be up in a little bit, send it to those sites. We'll get them on the air for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. Here's where we feature you in our show, where you're part of our show. These are your comments.
AceEye88 said, "Let these corrupt companies go under. We need new revolutionary companies to emerge and replace these weak companies." And Survanio says, "Those accepting the bonuses should be shamed. Why don't they refuse to accept them?"
And PEI_Anne says, "If the American people now own a majority of AIG, why can't the government refuse to pay bonuses? What will they do about it? Sue us?" The Qblingy says, "The CEO of AIG claims that the money must be paid to retain the talent that makes the company a success. Get a clue guy!"
We want you to be part of our show. We want your comments. As you can see, they're always very interesting. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com. That's how you get of those and that's how you get on the show.
Let's look ahead now to tomorrow morning where investors are coming off their best week in months. But AIG is back in the headlines, reminding us of everything that's gone wrong with this economy.
Our Poppy Harlow of CNNMoney.com -- she's in New York.
Poppy, why don't we start with AIG?
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Yes.
LEMON: We've heard the outrage. What is the latest from the financial sector there?
HARLOW: Yes, the bonus story is one part of this AIG drama that keeps unwinding. But just within the last half hour, though, Don, we have some very interesting information to share with people. Since September, we know AIG has gotten about $170 billion in federal assistance. Tonight, we know, Don, where about $105 billion of that money has gone, in this release from AIG just coming in to CNN in about the past hour or so.
So, let me break down for you what it shows. What it is, is a list of the counterparties to AIG. What that means is the banks associated with trades at AIG. That feared -- that many feared would have possibly gone under or been very hurt if the government hasn't come to AIG's rescue. Now, lawmakers have been asking for this list since last fall. AIG finally released it.
What it shows us is -- here's just one exhibit that was attached to it. It shows us a number of banks, both European and American, that had billions and billions of dollars tied up with trades with AIG's financial products division. You wouldn't think the insurance company would have a financial products division, but they did.
We're talking about European banks like French bank Societe Generale, German bank Deutsche Bank. But then in the U.S. on this list: Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Wachovia, JPMorgan, Morgan Stanley, Bank of America -
LEMON: How many banks are we talking about here? And these are big banks, right?
HARLOW: We're talking about -- about more than 15 banks here, and a lot of them in this country. So, lawmakers, Don, wanted to know, well, would our banks -- would U.S. banks be hurt if AIG went under or were they just more exposed to European banks? The answer here is, a lot of exposure in Europe but also a lot here in the U.S., Don.
This is big news. There's a full detailed article, it's very good, by Colin Barr, on CNNMoney.com explains it.
LEMON: Because it's all connected and even more so now.
HARLOW: Yes.
LEMON: It's even more important since, you know, everyone sort of on the brink now of who knows what's going to happen.
HARLOW: Exactly.
LEMON: So, you know, I said, led into you, Poppy, I said that the markets finished up last week ...
HARLOW: Yes.
LEMON: I think it was, what, three days that it was on the plus side.
HARLOW: Four.
LEMON: Four days. First time in a long time.
HARLOW: Yes.
LEMON: You know, can -- is this -- can you call it a recovery rally? Or -- you'd have to have a crystal ball, really, to know this, right?
HARLOW: Yes, you know. Let's show you folks what happened on Wall Street last week. It was certainly something to cheer for. Pull up the graphic. We'll give you an idea here.
The Dow up 9 percent. The S&P and the NASDAQ up better than 10 percent. We'll take those gains. By far, the best week so far we've seen this year on Wall Street. It was bank stocks, folks, that led the rally -- believe it or not.
Take a look at these gains. Citigroup, Bank of America, JP Morgan -- an unbelievable upsurge last week, Don.
LEMON: Yes.
HARLOW: And I called the trader Friday night, this man's name is Teddy Whitesburg (ph), he's traded on the New York Stock Exchange for 40 years.
LEMON: Teddy has been on the air here. He's awesome.
HARLOW: He is great.
LEMON: Yes.
HARLOW: He's great. And I talked to him Friday night, I said, "What do you make of this, Teddy?" He goes and I'll quote him here, "You could smell it, you could feel it, you know it was coming. This was a rally." But he said, "No smart man will put their money on this turnaround. We have to see more."
LEMON: He was more like this, you can smell it, you could feel it, right?
HARLOW: That's Teddy.
LEMON: That's Teddy. Hey, we always get these reports out -- the jobs numbers and what-have-you.
HARLOW: Yes.
LEMON: What do we're going to see next week, Poppy?
HARLOW: A lot coming up next week. We'll show folks this list. Beginning of the week, you're going to look at the home sector, housing starts and building permits. No surprise here. Another decline is expected for those February numbers.
Wednesday: The Fed's decision on interest rates. They're not going to change it most likely. It already is practically at zero. But you want to hear what they say about the economy and what they see moving forward.
Thursday: Those all-important weekly jobless claims. Again, last week, more than 650,000 of those claims. We'll see if this week is any better.
And Friday, we're going to hear from Fed chief, Ben Bernanke. He's speaking in Phoenix on -- what else -- the financial crisis and state of community banking, Don.
A big week ahead.
LEMON: Yes.
HARLOW: But we'll be on top of it all at CNNMoney.com.
LEMON: I just was going to say, a big week ahead for everyone.
HARLOW: Yes.
LEMON: Including us here at CNN. Poppy, thank you very much.
And the reason I said that, a big week ahead for us at CNN, because beginning tomorrow, you're going to get five days of unprecedented worldwide reporting on the money meltdown. You know, just who can lead us out of this crisis? What do all these numbers that we've been telling you really mean? And where are the jobs?
We're really working on this, trying to get you the best information possible. We're explaining this crisis, breaking it down for you -- because knowledge is power. That's what we believe here at CNN. "Road to Rescue: The CNN Survival Guide" -- all next week, of course, only here on CNN. Make sure you stay tuned.
They took billions -- billions of your tax dollars. Now big banks are profiting by charging fees to out-of-work Americans? What gives here? CNN investigates.
Also this -- well, check this wild scene out. Do you see that? They're bold, they're beautiful, and they are brawling. Yes, they are.
That's America's next top models. It turns into America's next top brawl. Did someone pull out a sweet roll or something?
(LAUGHTER)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Well, you want to be on top. That is the theme for the reality show, "America's Next Top Model."
Well, that was a scene. And when this scene happened at a New York City audition, the melee made it to the top of the headlines. Police believe it was a combination of a fight that had broken out in the crowd. A car backfiring. And then someone yelling bomb.
Listen to someone who was there when it all went down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEKELLAH MATTHIAS, WITNESS: They were running around the corner. People were dropping their chairs, their blankets, pushing, cursing. It's just really crazy -- pandemonium, actually.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, when it was all said and done, three people went to jail. And I've got to tell you, we have been -- you know, and it's produced by Tyra Banks. We've reached out to Tyra. We've been trying to get her.
Tyra, come on and talk to us about it, because we want to know exactly what happened.
And so, listen, I'm going to read these in real time just off my computer here. I think it's time for some feedback. Oh, this one is crazy.
Jacob0622 says, "Wow! Who knew a fight between models could start over a peanut?" Tonita says, "Interesting, there are threats by the Taliban after Cheney interview voicing his belief of homeland security being compromised."
And much, much more. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, iReport.com, that's where you get in touch with us.
All right. Let's talk about news now happening in Afghanistan. There is new evidence that Taliban extremists are resurging or resurfacing to reckon with the -- reckon with in Afghanistan, I should say.
In Kabul, CNN's Paula Newton spoke exclusively with a top Taliban commander. He claims the group's new constitution calls for the execution of captured foreign aid workers, or they use as a bartering chip in exchange for captured Taliban fighters. We'll have more on this exclusive story next hour including a report from Paula Newton from the Afghan capital.
Turning now to the growing drug violence in Mexico. Police acting on a tip, had found nine bodies partially buried in the desert, on the outskirts of the border city of Juarez. Now, the victims were seven men and two women. So far, they have not been identified.
A state security official says all the victims had been tortured. And Juarez, just across the border from El Paso, Texas, has been hit by a wave of drug cartel violence. And in response, thousands of Mexican troops have been sent in. In another border town, Mexican police say they arrested a top hitman from one of the cartels.
Some U.S. officials are calling those cartels the most serious organized crime threat to America right now.
Josef Fritzl, the Austrian man accused of locking his daughter in a cellar for decades and fathering her seven children, will plead guilty to rape and incest. That's according to his attorney. And Fritzl is also charged with the murder of one of those seven children, an infant that died soon after birth. His attorney says he will deny those claims including charges of enslavement and assault. Fritzl's closed door trial is set to begin on Monday. The lawyer adds, the 73- year-old Fritzl expects to die behind bars.
And remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: Our economy, I think, still the fundamentals of our economy are strong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, they were words that might have caused John McCain the election. But now, President Obama is sounding a lot like his Republican rival. We're digging deeper on this.
Plus ...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And so, we're talking about it all the time. Why don't we do something? So, we just said, you know what? Next year, we are going to only support black businesses and black professionals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. Putting their money on the color line and finding out it's harder than they thought it would be. We'll meet the couple behind the "ebony experiment."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: Happening now, outrage over AIG.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Remortgage your house. That's what we have to do. Find a way, but don't take it from me. I don't have it anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Another jaw dropper from the troubled insurer. It's taking billions of dollars of your taxpayer money while doling out millions of dollars in bonuses.
A live look at Florida's Kennedy Space Center where a little more than about an hour away from liftoff of the space shuttle "Discovery." Live coverage on CNN. You'll see it if it launches.
One of those scenes you've got to see to believe, pandemonium outside a New York hotel where tryouts were held for "America's Next Top Model." Three people arrested, six others hurt in what police call utter chaos.
A lot of you are weighing in on this.
Here's what bpither2007 says, "Those models are desperate for work. Don't take much to tick them off, especially after hearing about AIG."
And BascoChef says, "I think the guys in the news helicopter dropped an M&M in the crowd just to spark the free-for-all."
Become part of the show, Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com. We'll get your responses on the air.
Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
We start with politics and a phrase that got John McCain into trouble during last fall's campaign. It put him on the defensive and never really regained his footing.
Here's what he had to say to a crowd in Florida just as America's recession was deepening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R), ARIZONA: Our economy -- I think, still the fundamentals of our economy are strong but these are very, very difficult times. I promise you, we will never put America in this position again. We will clean up Wall Street. We will reform government. (LAUGHTER).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The fundamentals are strong? On the surface, the comments don't seem so controversial. But then candidate Barack Obama had a field day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And yet despite our economic crisis, John McCain actually came here to Veterans Memorial Arena and repeated something he said at least 16 times on this campaign. He said, and I quote, "The fundamentals of our economy are strong." (BOOS). You don't need to boo. You just need to vote. (APPLAUSE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right, that was back in November 2008. Well, fast forward to this week when now President Barack Obama had this to say about the struggling U.S. economy. Listen carefully.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: If we are keeping focused on all the fundamentally sound aspects of our economy, all the outstanding companies, workers, all the innovation and dynamism in this economy, then we're going to get through this. And I'm very confident about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. So what about those fundamentals? Does President Obama now agree with John McCain?
Let's bring in our Bill Schneider.
Bill, are we parsing words here? Does he really agree with John McCain that the fundamentals of our economy are strong?
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Let's look at what they said. John McCain said the fundamentals of our economy are strong. President Obama said there are fundamentally sound aspects of our economy. I suppose you could say they were stressing slightly different things.
President Obama has a different job now. Back in the fall, it was President Bush who responsible for the economy and Candidate Obama was running against the Republicans. Now, of course, he's the president and he bears at least some responsibility for this economy. So he wants Americans not to be discouraged and he wants to convince them we know what we're doing, we can get out of this.
LEMON: He's got the job now.
SCHNEIDER: He has the job now.
LEMON: Let's talk about the former vice president, here, Dick Cheney. Exclusive interview John King had today on "State of the Union." He said it is wrong for President Obama to say he inherited all of these problems.
Listen, Bill, and then let's talk about it, OK?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KING, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Just about every day, I assume, you're reading the newspapers now that you're out of office. The president says we've got a lot to do, it's not our fault. I inherited the mess. Did you leave him a mess?
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't think you can blame the Bush administration for the creation of the circumstances. It's a global financial problem. We had, in fact, tried to deal with the Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae problems some years before with major reforms. And by Democrats on the hill, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Bill, when you're the president and the vice president, doesn't the buck stop here? I mean, if -- it just seems common sense to me.
SCHNEIDER: Yes. He's arguing you can't blame the Bush administration but you can't exonerate the Bush administration. They were in charge for eight years. Sure, part of the crisis was global, but it started in the United States. The Democrats who control Congress for part of that time did have something to do with it. They supported loans to lower-income people who wanted to buy homes. Sometimes that was a very risky thing to do.
The basic problem was one of lax financial oversight. And the Bush administration bears some responsibility for that.
LEMON: Who's he saying is responsible? That it was just all of the stars aligned to create all of this?
SCHNEIDER: At one point, he did say stuff happens. He mentioned 9/11, Hurricane Katrina. You're sure right, stuff happens. But the government is there to be in charge when that stuff happens. It has to figure out -- has to have a plan to deal with the stuff when it happens. And, of course, there were some warnings about some of this stuff that happened. The government under the Bush administration wasn't entirely prepared for the stuff that did happen.
LEMON: Yeah. Yeah. That's an interesting interview. It would be interesting to play a lot more of it and find out -- you know, just get more context.
Bill, we always appreciate your perspective. Thank you is much, sir.
This next story's about putting their money where their race is. What do you think of this? I really want to know. Some people are saying, is this bias? And some are weighing in and saying, is this racist? They're doing it because they wanted to help their community, the African-American community. They're finding out it's harder than they thought. They're attempting to shop only at black-owned businesses this year.
There they are. They're joining us from Chicago.
Hello, guys.
JOHN ANDERSON, SHOPPING BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES: Hi, how are you, Don?
MAGGIE ANDERSON, SHOPPING BLACK-OWNED BUSINESSES: Hi, Don.
They're calling it the Ebony Experiment. Others are calling it, as I said, bias. Who asked them? We'll give them their chance here to explain themselves in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK, just checking some of our feedback. A lot of you are weighing in on the story we're about to tell you now. I'll make sure I get that up so I can give it to you during this interview. It's about a Chicago couple, committed to only buying from black-owned businesses this year.
It's called the Ebony Experiment. And here's why they say they're doing it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ANDERSON: This experience is about love and pride. OK? It's not about exclusion. What this boils down to is an exercise in self-help economics. The thriving African-American community certainly benefits society as a whole.
MAGGIE ANDERSON: We're hoping that, in the dialogue we create, we can dispel what we consider a myth about black businesses and black professionals. That myth is that their goods and services are somehow inferior.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. John and Maggie Anderson live with us tonight from my former town, Chicago.
Good to see you guys.
MAGGIE ANDERSON: Hi, Don.
JOHN ANDERSON: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: How's the weather?
MAGGIE ANDERSON: It's a beautiful day, actually.
LEMON: Good, good.
JOHN ANDERSON: 60 degrees today.
LEMON: Oh, wow. Thanks for joining us. You said why you're doing it. Was it because of your neighborhood? You live in Oak Park. That's not a really bad neighborhood. I mean, really, what's the motivation?
MAGGIE ANDERSON: That's the point. We live in Oak Park, but that's not where we're from. I'm originally from Miami in an economically deprived, predominantly black neighborhood. John, the same thing, only in Detroit. And that we live in Oak Park now and both have MBAs and are successful business professionals, we've seen basically what you can say the plight and the potential of black business.
What's frustrating for us is the symmetry between black talent and black resources, all of that outstanding talent and resources that we see every day and what's actually invested in, re-invested in and represented in the black community. So we want to make sure that we do something about that symmetry.
LEMON: I read that you thought that some people, you knew, some others you didn't know, trying to start businesses, African-Americans. They were not taken seriously, or they were not viable businesses because they couldn't get people to go along with them. One reason behind this?
MAGGIE ANDERSON: To the extent that that has to do with us, we have to cure that. We do believe, of course, the crazy failure rates of black businesses and the difficulty it is to get one started may have to do with our history here and the lack of access to capital and networks. But to the extent it has to do with black prominently middle-class folks not supporting those businesses because of stereotypes or not knowing they're there, that's a problem.
LEMON: Maggie, there is a certain point to this, in someway, because African-Americans -- we got a report last week -- hit hardest by this recession, Hispanic next, then Asian.
John, from you, it's been harder than you thought it would be because you have to drive further. It's actually costing you more money to do this than if you didn't do it.
JOHN ANDERSON: Well, that's actually not true. Maggie can probably speak to that point a little better since she does most of the shopping. Some of the things that have been cut out are, you know, like impulse purchases and things like that.
LEMON: I read it was tougher than you thought to find black businesses, no?
MAGGIE ANDERSON: Absolutely.
JOHN ANDERSON: No question it's been tougher. You know, some of the resources that we thought we could utilize, you know, I would say -- you know, black oriented internet sites and things of that nature, just haven't provided a lot of guidance for us. So, yeah, that's been difficult. But, again, like I said, Maggie could probably speak to that point a little better.
MAGGIE ANDERSON: I don't want to take up the whole interview.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I know, that's why I said John...
MAGGIE ANDERSON: The second piece of that is that a lot of the businesses we assumed would be easy to find in the black community or would be black owned are not.
LEMON: So you have to do your research and find them. It doesn't come to your door.
MAGGIE ANDERSON: Right. Right. That's the point. When we find a good business, we do our best to uplift that.
LEMON: I didn't ask you guys that, but you said you didn't think it was bias or exclusion. You just thought it was helping African- American businesses. We have to go. Yes, no?
JOHN ANDERSON: Absolutely.
LEMON: Yes? Thank you, guys. Appreciate it. Enjoy the 60 degree weather in Chicago. I'm a bit jealous.
JOHN ANDERSON: Thanks a lot.
MAGGIE ANDERSON: Thanks a lot, Don.
LEMON: Keep us updated.
Beginning tomorrow, get five days of unprecedented worldwide reporting on the money meltdown. Just who can lead us out of this crisis? What do the numbers really mean? And where are the jobs? We're explaining this crisis, breaking it down for you because we believe knowledge is power. "Road to Rescue, the CNN Survival Guide," all next week only on CNN. Practical advice for you.
You guys are weighing in.
Brothergrimace says, "Good idea for the couple. I hope it doesn't become a trend bent on retaliation rather than resetting balance."
Marcus says, "Black businesses only isn't racist. Italians like to support Italian businesses only, too, and the same for the polish, Asians, et cetera."
Armond, "Question for the black couple. If you realize you purchased an item from a white company, do you return the item?"
I wish I could ask them these questions, guys. Johnnyclash, "Shopping only in black-owned businesses? What are they trying to prove? Seems like ignorance to me."
I would love to pose it to them.
So Twitter, MySpace, Facebook, iReport.com, that's how you can become part of our show.
That was a very interesting concept and interesting interview. Hope you enjoyed it.
If you hate those bank fees when you have a job -- I certainly do -- imagine how you would feel if you were cutting into your unemployment with all these bank fees. And it's in a lot of states. they really are. We're going to investigate it for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: You know those fees banks charge for using your debit card at another bank's ATM or for just checking your balance? Fees like that are taking a real bite out of jobless benefits for millions of people.
As OUR Drew Griffin reports, from our "Special Investigations Unit," banks that got billions of your taxpayer bailout money are charging them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT, "SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT": Where are we?
STEVE LIPPY, RECEIVES UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS: This is west Philadelphia.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Steve Lippy didn't mind taking us on a little tour of his neighborhood. The salesman has plenty of time on his hands after being laid off in January. He has plenty of time to read the fine print on his bills. When he read this fine print, he became livid.
LIPPY: $1.50 here. $1.50.
GRIFFIN: These are the fees attached to his unemployment benefits. Actually, to a debit card he got from the state. When he filed for unemployment, Pennsylvania gave him the option, wait ten days for a check or get this card immediately.
LIPPY: You have no choice but to accept the debit card. I was livid that this situation existed. I just couldn't believe it. It's, you know, an outrage is too weak a word. It's obscene.
GRIFFIN: 30 states run similar programs contracting with a dozen big banks to distribute unemployment benefits on debit cards and allowing banks to charge fees to the unemployed.
The contracts do allow a limited number of free transactions, but that's not good enough, says New York Congresswoman Carolyn Maloney.
REP. CAROLLYN MALONEY, (D), NEW YORK: Fees should not be attached to unemployment benefits that the taxpayers are paying for to help Americans. Particularly these fees should not be attached by banks that are getting TARP money or being supported by the taxpayers' dollars.
GRIFFIN: Keeping them honest, we went to JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, and Wachovia, who all referred us to state governments, including Pennsylvania where Steve Lippy is being charged.
Pennsylvania's acting secretary of labor is Sandy Vito. Her staff invited us to Allentown where Vito was participated in this public meeting. Afterwards, we were promised she would answer our questions about debit fees.
But when the meeting was over, Vito was running from our camera. Suddenly, too busy, her staff said, to talk to us.
(on camera): Hi, Ms. Vito, Drew Griffin with CNN. Do you have a second?
SANDY VITO, PENNSYLVANIA ACTING SECRETARY OF LABOR: I don't. I'm sorry, I don't.
GRIFFIN: I just have one question.
VITO: I'm sorry, I can't.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): As she dashed out the door, her press secretary tried to explain why unemployed workers in Pennsylvania were being charged fees to get their unemployment benefits.
TROY A THOMPSON, PENNSYLVANIA LABOR DEPARTMENT: The distribution system for getting individuals their benefits has been improved by the use of debit cards.
GRIFFIN: Lippy says he has learned to be careful when getting his money, trying to limit his activity, but on the day we met, he was charged 40 cents, just to check his balance.
(on camera): You're not getting much, are you?
LIPPY: No, I'm not getting much, but the banks are getting $1.50, $3.50 here, times how many times of thousands of people who are unemployed receiving benefits, over 30 states, as it turns out.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): He says he is already being taxed on his unemployment benefits. Charging him additional fees just to access the money is just one more insult, he says, to people who can afford it the least.
Drew Griffin, CNN, Philadelphia.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LEMON: I hope they make some changes there.
Space shuttle "Discovery" is set to launch in under an hour from now.
And our Jacqui Jeras is watching the skies from the Florida's Kennedy Space Center.
Jackie, good weather, yes?
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Really fantastic weather, Don. We were a little bit worried about scattered clouds earlier. But look at the live picture, clear as a bell. So they have upgraded it as 100 percent go because of the weather for today.
But if something else were to hold this up, we're concerned about clouds up to the north. They're going to be moving in over the next couple days, so the probability will be decreasing if we have to delay the launch. So hopefully, everything works out technically and the weather looks fantastic -- Don?
LEMON: Thank you, Jacqui. We're watching and waiting.
If you're looking to take a lavish vacation, but worried about how far your dollars can go right now, don't despair. Our Melissa Long found out how you can take a five-star trip on a three-star budget.
(ON THE GO)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Walking with robotic legs. An Israeli company has developed a robotic suit that lets paraplegics stand and walk again.
Paula Hancocks has tonight's "Edge of Discovery."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Radi Kaidf was paralyzed from the waist-down 20 years ago, an Israeli soldier shot in the spine when on patrol in Lebanon. Now he can walk, thanks to some high-tech assistance. He still has no feeling in his legs, but that makes no difference with the Re-walk.
Radi tells me, standing changes my whole environment. I don't have to look from the bottom-up. Now I am eye to eye with everybody.
The Re-walk is the brain child of Dr. Amet Gaffa. After he became disabled in an accident in 1997, Dr. Gaffa focused on developing an alternative to a wheelchair. By 2007, this robotic suit, or exoskeleton, was ready for testing.
DR. AMET GAFFA, INVESTOR, RE-WALK: It may be the number one problem, we're sitting in a wheelchair, we're limited. And secondly, it tremendously affects the ability to walk (ph) in health. HANCOCKS: The robotic suit has advanced motion sensors and on- board computers, and crutches keep the patient upright.
It's not on the market yet. The Re-walk is still going through clinical trials. But if it's approved, the device could be available in 2010.
I'm Paula Hancocks in Haifa, Israel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: We're following developing news here in the "CNN NEWSROOM." You see that picture there, space shuttle "Discovery" on the launching pad. And as soon as it launches -- that should happen in about 45 minutes -- we're going to carry it for you live.
You also see NASA TV right there, where they're getting ready for all of this. Will everything go as planned? This you'll see it live, right here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Hello, everyone, it is the top of the hour, and we are following developing news here.
All systems are go. We're about 45 minutes away from the launch of the space shuttle "Discovery."
CNN's John Zarrella is at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida.
John, any last-minute concerns?
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: No concerns, Don, at all. The weather is ideal here for a launch. And as you mentioned, just under 45 minutes now, 7:43 p.m., liftoff of Shuttle "Discovery." It'll be the 36th flight of the shuttle "Discovery," heading towards the international space station.
