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Outrage Over AIG Bonuses; Discovery Begins 13-Day Mission to Space Station; Cheney Talks About Iraq, Economy, Terrorism; Joe Biden's Mom Hospitalized; Deadly Drug Cartel Violence Breaks Out on U.S.-Mexican Border; New Taliban Threats; Catwalks & Catfights; Breaking Color Barriers on TV
Aired March 15, 2009 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: The outrage over executive bonuses at AIG. Tonight, it's reaching a boiling point.
America's next top models trade the catwalk for a catfight. Tyra Banks is speaking out tonight.
And behind the scenes with the first lady. The inside details from a brand new biography.
Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon live here at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
But we begin tonight with the economy and some of the most optimistic comments we've heard from the chairman of the Federal Reserve. The always cautious Ben Bernanke said tonight on "60 Minutes" that stabilizing the financial market is critical but a plan is now in place. Here's what he said. This is a quote.
"We're working on it," he said. "And I do think that we will get it stabilized, and we'll see the recession coming to an end probably this year. We'll see recovery beginning next year. And it will pick up steam over time."
Optimism there from Ben Bernanke.
Meantime, the president's chief economic adviser, Larry Summers, said today that the administration is also doing its part. He says the president will announce a new plan tomorrow at 11:25 in the morning that will offer hundreds of millions of dollars in loans to America's small business owners. All of it will be carried right here on CNN.
Lawrence Summers and a whole host of other people are calling the latest news about AIG outrageous. The insurance giant says it had no choice but to dole out multimillion dollar bonuses despite getting billions of your taxpayer bailout dollars. Explaining the news that broke this weekend, Elaine Quijano at the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Outrage over word that AIG is doling out $165 million in planned bonuses to senior employees despite getting $170 billion in government bailout money.
LAWRENCE SUMMERS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL ECONOMIC COUNCIL: There are a lot of terrible things that have happened in the last 18 months. But what's happened at AIG is the most outrageous.
QUIJANO: In a letter to Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, the company's CEO Edward Liddy explained "because of contracts in place before the bailout, AIG's hands are tied." And he warned of serious legal as well as business consequences for not paying the bonuses.
In other words, AIG says it could lose its top performers to higher paying jobs, the company could go under and the $170 billion taxpayer dollars, all for nothing. The Obama administration insists it did lean on AIG to pull back on the bonuses.
CHRISTINA ROMER, CHAIRMAN, COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: We're the first people to be angry. So, absolutely, Secretary Geithner has been furious and has been pushing back, urging them to renegotiate this. We're pursuing every legal means to deal with this.
QUIJANO: The administration did get AIG to scale back some of the payments. Still, Main Street outrage is boiling, even among tourists just outside the Treasury Department.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm flabbergasted.
QUIJANO: West Virginia resident and Obama supporter Bernard Digregorio says the AIG situation smacks of injustice at a time when he and other taxpayers are worried about making ends meet.
BERNARD DIGREGORIO, CHARLESTON, WEST VIRGINIA: If they have contracts, fine. It's like, remortgage your house. That's what we have to do. Find a way but don't take it from me. I don't have it anymore.
QUIJANO: Laura McKanic (ph), another Obama supporter, has some sympathy for the administration. But for AIG, none.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's deplorable. I think it shouldn't be done whether there are contracts beforehand or not. I think it just should be time for change. Things have changed, and they have to change that.
QUIJANO (on camera): An administration official insists under AIG's restructuring agreement, taxpayers will recoup that bonus money. In the meantime, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi wants Congress to examine what legal options are available to recover taxpayer funds.
Elaine Quijano, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right, Elaine. There's still a lot we don't know about the AIG bonus story, and I talked about it with CNNMoney.com's Poppy Harlow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Who these bonuses are going to and how many people? Because we're talking about millions of dollars here, you know. Were they $10,000 bonuses, $5,000, $1 million, you know what I mean?
POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: You're exactly right, Don, and we don't know that. The only thing that's really outlined in this letter is that the top employees in that financial products division of AIG that I mentioned, they're paid relatively big salaries, an average in excess of $270,000 a year increase in their salaries.
You can imagine the bonuses are big. These are also people that have worked at the company, you can imagine, for a long time. And, you know, not all of them were necessarily involved in what led to the downfall. But it is that financial product division that is taking the biggest cut. And it's that division that really led to the company's downfall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: CNNMoney.com's Poppy Harlow, speaking to her about AIG. And beginning tomorrow, you want to tune in for this, because you're going to get five days of unprecedented worldwide reporting on the money meltdown.
Just who can you -- who can lead us out of this crisis? Who can you trust? What do all the numbers really mean? And where are the jobs? We're explaining this crisis, breaking it down for you because we believe here at CNN that knowledge is power. We just don't want to give you depressing news all the time. "ROAD TO RESCUE: THE CNN SURVIVAL GUIDE." All next week only here on CNN.
The former vice president, Dick Cheney, broke his silence today and spoke exclusively on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JOHN KING." When asked about unemployment, the deficit and other factors that got worse under the Bush administration, Cheney says it's just not that simple.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, all kinds of arguments could be made on that point. But there -- there's something that's more important than the specific numbers that you're talking about. And that had to be priority for our administration.
Eight months after we arrived, we had 9/11. We had 3,000 Americans killed one morning by al Qaeda terrorists here in the United States. We immediately had to go into the wartime mode. We ended up with two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. Some of that still very active.
We had major problems with respect to things like Katrina, for example. All of these things required us to spend money that we had not originally planned to spend or weren't originally part of the budget. Stuff happens. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: As for Iraq, Cheney said he's convinced the U.S. invasion was the right thing to do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: There's no prospect that you're going to see the kind of behavior out of this new government of Iraq that we saw under the old one over a period 20 or 30 years. So I think it was absolutely the right thing to do. And I think when history reviews this period 10 or 20 years hence, that what will be significant was that we did, in fact, accomplish what we set out to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And John King also asked Dick Cheney if Americans are less safe under President Obama's policies, namely, the reversing of some Bush administration anti-terror tactics. Cheney's answer: I do.
Cheney's comments drawing some criticism tonight. We'll dig deeper with the best political team on television this hour coming up in moments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four, three, two, one -- and booster ignition and liftoff -- Space Shuttle Discovery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Picture-perfect liftoff for Discovery. After monthlong delay, the shuttle lit up Florida's night sky. Eight minutes later, it was in orbit. Discovery will hook up with the space station on Tuesday. Now, one of its primary objectives during its 13-day mission is to install the final set of solar panels to the power -- to power the outpost.
Rain plus fog equals, well, a whole lot of delays, and we could see all kinds of them up and down the East Coast tomorrow. That is not good news. Jacqui Jeras checking the commute and the travel forecast.
(WEATHER REPORT)
LEMON: Jacqui Jeras, we appreciate it.
The outrage over AIG accepting government bailout money while paying out executive bonuses. We will take a closer look at the fallout over that.
And first lady Michelle Obama putting her unique stamp on the role of first lady. We'll take a closer look at how she's doing it.
And we want to know what's on your mind tonight, of course. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com. That's your chance of becoming part of our program.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We told you about insurance giant AIG shelling out millions of dollars in executive bonuses after getting billions of your taxpayer dollars. And it seems everyone from White House officials to you are outraged by it. Listen to one of our iReporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY KUHRY, IREPORTER: Just to put in perspective for the upper echelon. OK. That means 18 holes of golf, average par is 72. You guys have 504 strokes to finish that 18 holes. Damn. You failed. OK. And you don't give raises for failure. OK. You don't give bonuses and raises for failure. I'd like an answer from Mr. Liddy on these facts and this commentary. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: AIG's big payouts will no doubt be a hot topic all week tomorrow when everyone gets back to work. I'm sure Washington will be abuzz as well as the rest of the country. We want to bring in two of our regulars, Mark Preston, he's CNN political editor, and Lynn Sweet, Washington bureau chief of the "Chicago Sun-Times."
Lynn, this is one thing that Democrats and Republicans can unite over. They are outraged by this.
LYNN SWEET, "CHICAGO SUN-TIMES": Everyone is. It's flowing the blogosphere all apart. Everyone is mad because they don't understand about you're in trouble about losing your job, you're worried about your house being foreclosed on and a company that is 80 percent taxpayer-owned, that was bailed out, is handing out bonuses. And that message just is the wrong one for the Obama administration, they have to deal with now.
LEMON: Hey, Lynn, before I get to Mark, I want to say this, because their justification was that it was contractual and people are not buying that.
SWEET: No. And some contracts are made to be broken is what Congress is going to say as soon as they get back here on Tuesday.
LEMON: And you heard, Lynn, Mark, mentioning Congress, a lot of lawmakers today speaking out about AIG.
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Yes. And what we do know today, Don, is that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says that she wants this looked into and she's turned to one of her top committee chairmen to do so. And we've heard from Russ Feingold, he's a populous from Wisconsin, a senator, a Democrat who has come out and said he wants an investigation from the Obama administration to find out if these contracts can be broken.
I can guarantee you this though, Don, when the senators and congressmen do come back to town, AIG will be the unifying theme that keeps Democrats and Republicans together.
LEMON: Vice President Dick Cheney breaking his silence today speaking out on "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JOHN KING." When John asked him about whether or not they left the Obama administration with a mess, here's what the vice president had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KING, HOST, "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JOHN KING": Just about every day, I assume, you read in the newspapers, now that you're out of office, the president says well, we got a lot to do but it's not my fault, I inherited a mess. Did you leave him a mess?
CHENEY: I don't think you can blame the Bush administration for the creation of the circumstances. It's a global financial problem. We had, in fact, tried to deal with the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac problem some years before with major reforms that were blocked by the Democrats on the Hill -- Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That did not take responsibility for the economy, it appears, Mark, or anything that was bad. But for the good things that he perceived that was happening in Iraq, he did take responsibility for that.
PRESTON: Yes. And we should expect that, of course, from Dick Cheney, the former vice president. He's a fighter, Don. And, look, he did make a point. This was a global crisis. And the fact is that Democrats on Capitol Hill did have something to do with the fact that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were not reformed and, of course, we saw our housing, our whole housing situation here collapse at this point. But the fact is the Bush administration does have to take some credit for at least some fault for what has happened.
LEMON: And Lynn to say -- I mean, it appeared, you know, there is some responsibility there. There's enough to go around. But the appearances -- by all appearances from that interview, it seems like our hands are off. We had nothing to do with it. Did you get that from them?
SWEET: Oh, I did. And, you know, John King had a great coup in landing the vice president. But I think he wanted to make sure that for people who are writing the history right now, that they -- he's not going to give them anything to write that he doesn't want to read. And this whole financial mess started on their watch. And you can't just blame Congress for being asleep with Fannie and Freddie. There's a lot more to it than that.
LEMON: Lynn and Mark weighing in. Thank you very much. And the viewers are weighing in as well. Here's what RedRedMeat says, "Shouldn't they have put a clause in about bonuses when we loaned them the money?"
And iChrisNewYork says, "Anyone accepting bonuses after others were blasted for doing so is ignorant and should be sent to suffer like the rest."
Angiewatson1 says, "What a terrible mess with the AIG bonuses with so many people out of work."
DekeJadiVader says, "Wow! Sure seems like failure as a career move. Nearly tank the economy and get a bonus. Where's ours?"
Your chance to get on the show -- Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, or iReport.com. We appreciate all of your comments.
A civil rights icon is in an Atlanta hospital tonight. Details straight ahead on that.
And behind the scenes with the first lady. The inside details from a brand new biography. The author joins us live.
Also, the life and love of a living legend whether you remember her as Julia, Claudine, Dominique Deveraux, Diahann Carroll made every role her own. Tonight, my candid conversation with her and why she's an African-American first.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Some developing stories we're watching for you tonight, and one involves Vice President's Joe Biden's 91-year-old mother. Catherine Eugenia Biden is at the University of Pennsylvania Hospital tonight after falling at her Delaware home. A spokeswoman for the vice president says his mom is in good spirits tonight.
Plus, the man known as the dean of the civil rights movement is in an Atlanta hospital tonight. Dr. Joseph Lowery fell today after delivering the 123rd anniversary sermon at Ebenezer Baptist Church. A spokesman for the 87-year-old Lowery says he went to the hospital after getting dizzy and should be released tomorrow. You may recall Lowery gave the benediction at President Barack Obama's inauguration.
And tonight, sadly, we're learning about the death of former "West Wing" star Ron Silver. The TV, movie and stage actor and long- time political activist died in his sleep this morning surrounded by his family. He had been fighting esophageal cancer for two years. Silver co-founded the Creative Coalition with late actor Christopher Reeve. Silver's movie credits include "Reversal of Fortune" in which he played lawyer Alan Dershowitz. He was 62 years old.
Well, remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our economy, I think, still, the fundamentals of our economy are strong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: They were the words that might have cost John McCain the election, but now President Obama is sounding a lot like his Republican rival. We are digging deeper. And check out this wild scene. They are bold. They are beautiful. And they are brawling. "America's Next Top Model" turns into America's next top brawl.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. It was a phrase heard around the world, around the nation. It got John McCain into big trouble during last fall's campaign. It put him on the defensive and he never really regained his footing. Here's what he had to say to a crowd in Florida just as America's recession was deepening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: Our economy, I think, still, the fundamentals of our economy are strong. But these are very, very difficult times. And I promise you we will never put America in this position again. We will clean up Wall Street. We will reform government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The fundamentals are strong. On the surface, those comments don't seem so controversial. But then, candidate Barack Obama had a field day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And yet, despite our economic crisis, John McCain actually came here to Veterans Memorial arena and repeated something he said at least 16 times on this campaign. He said, and I quote, "The fundamentals of our economy are strong." You don't need to boo. You just need to vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Just before the election back in November, fast forward to this week when now President Obama had this to say about the struggling U.S. economy. Listen very closely.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: If we are keeping focused on all the fundamentally sound aspects of our economy, all the outstanding companies, workers, all the innovation and dynamism in this economy, then we're going to get through this. And I'm very confident about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. Let's talk more about the fundamentals with Lynn Sweet and Mark Preston.
Lynn, are we parsing words here? Is it the same message or not?
SWEET: I've been puzzled. I think it's kind of the same. The nuance is gone now. And, yes, different circumstances, though. So, if you want to put merit on Obama for trying to say one thing one time and the other now. But I've been trying to figure this out myself. The fundamentals are not yet strong. They're trying to inject a lot of confidence and optimism into the market. They had a good week. They're hoping to keep this afloat. That's what you're hearing.
LEMON: OK. Are we making too much of this, Mark Preston? What do you think?
PRESTON: You know, I think President Obama has a different job right now. You know, back then he was running, and in all politics, anything goes. It's very rough and tumble. Now, he needs to inspire. And now, he needs to really give the markets some confidence. Look, the markets are hanging on every word.
But I think that it's fair to say, Don, that what Barack Obama said at that time and what he is saying now, he's kind of criticizing himself, so to speak. If I were John McCain, I'd be pretty upset.
LEMON: Yes. And, you know, I said this earlier. I said he does -- you know, he's got the job now.
Lynn, what were you going to say? Did you say something?
SWEET: Oh, I'm sorry. I said, yes, it's different when you're president...
LEMON: Yes.
SWEET: ... and it's your job to keep rallying the troops, keep the morale up, try and not worry everybody just, you know, put their money under their bed and never go out again.
LEMON: OK. You know, Sunday morning, the morning shows, "STATE OF THE UNION," what have you, all over the other networks, White House chief economist Christine Romer made a comment about going out and buy. I want you to listen to this and get your comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROMER: We know that consumers lost a lot of wealth and that normally what you'd say is they should be saving more. I think the truth is consumers have also not done a lot of spending for the last 14 months. So what I would predict and I think would be a perfectly reasonable thing is you go out and you buy that car that you've been thinking about for 14 months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Lynn, you took issue with this.
SWEET: Well, it's two signals -- do you save or do you spend? All this -- you know, she's talking macro. I think it's depends on what your situation is. Don't get bamboozled into thinking you're going to go out and, you know, you should buy a car to be patriotic. I just hope everybody is careful with their money here.
But it is one of the things government does is use the bully pulpit to tell you that things are going to get better. And that's what she was trying to do. And, you know, Dr. Romer is saying go out and buy, preferably get that car. Someday, these conkers are going to wear out. You're going to have to go buy cars again. You just have to decide if this is the right time for you.
LEMON: And, Mark, you got to have money, you have to have a job usually to buy a car.
PRESTON: Yes, you do, Don. And I got to tell you. I don't know very many people that are going out and buying new cars right now. And I don't know very many people that are going out and buying new homes or what have you. Everyone is hurting. We're seeing a lot of people laid off.
But Lynn is absolutely right. It is government's job to try to restore confidence to our markets, you know, to us. So that's what we saw this morning, and that's what we saw Barack Obama said when he said that the fundamentals of the economy, or at least parts of it, are strong.
LEMON: Hey, we really appreciate it because you guys do a very good job of moving the news forward for us, because we know Monday has got a lot going on with AIG and the president tomorrow announcing help for small businesses at 11:25. A lot of stuff going on and we appreciate it. Thank you.
SWEET: Thank you.
PRESTON: Thank you.
LEMON: And beginning tomorrow, also on "AMERICAN MORNING," get five days of unprecedented worldwide reporting on the money meltdown. It is going to start on "AMERICAN MORNING" but it will continue throughout the day here on CNN and throughout the week.
Just who can lead us out of this crisis and where are the jobs? We're explaining this crisis, breaking it down for you because knowledge is power. "ROAD TO RESCUE: THE CNN SURVIVAL GUIDE," all next week only on CNN.
A frightening new message from the Taliban. They're threatening to kill aid workers or hold them as bargaining chips. Details straight ahead on that.
And if it's on your mind, it's probably on their radio shows. We're talking about the drive-time buzz straight ahead. There's a lot to talk to these two people about. We're going to talk to them in seconds.
And if you were watching TV in the '60s and '70s, you didn't see very many black faces in starring roles, but you did see Diahann Carroll. Her incredible story in tonight's "Up From a Past: African- American Firsts."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: I want to turn now to the growing drug violence in Mexico. Police acting on a tip, have found nine bodies partially buried in the desert on the outskirts of the border city of Juarez. The victims were seven men and two women. So far they have not been identified. A state security official says all the victims had been tortured. Juarez, just across the border from El Paso, Texas, has been hit by a wave of drug cartel violence. In response, thousands of Mexican troops have been sent in.
In another border town, Mexican police say they arrested a top hitmen for one of the cartels. Some U.S. officials are calling those cartels the most serious organized crime threat to America right now.
All sorts of new global developments tonight to tell you about. First, fresh evidence that Taliban extremists are resurging. A force to reckon with in Afghanistan. In Kabul, CNN's Paula Newton spoke exclusively with a top Taliban commander. He claims the group's new constitution calls for the execution of captured foreign aide workers or their use as a bartering tip in exchange for captured Taliban fighters.
A lot of you are weighing in on what we're reporting. Here's what Bdukepenn says, "Just happy I voted for a president who is committed to what he campaigned about."
BUCKLINGA says, "AIG is like the "Death Star." Feel the force, Barack. No more bonuses for bad behavior.
Albert Valencia says, "This recession is a global crisis that started in the U.S. under Cheney's watch."
Feistyredhead says, "President and first lady Obama are the business as usual, and I could care less about anorexic, adolescents throwing tantrums."
Tell us what's on your mind. Become part of our show -- Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com. That is how you get on the air.
So that's what you're saying on Twitter. Well, what about the drive-time buzz? For that, I defer to syndicated radio host Martha Zoller and Warren Ballentine. Warren is also the author of a new book, "The Truth About Black and White." It's on stands now. And Martha wrote "Indivisible: United Values for a Divided America."
Multitalented.
(LAUGHTER)
OK, enough with the plugs. Let's get to work here. Let's talk about the Vice President Cheney interview on "STATE OF THE UNION WITH JOHN KING."
Martha, are you surprised he even came on CNN, honestly?
MARTHA ZOLLER, RADIO HOST, "MARTHA ZOLLER SHOW": Well, I think it was a great move for him to come to CNN. That's going into the lion's den. I mean, you would have expected him doing his first post...
LEMON: Why would you say that, though? Why would you say that?
ZOLLER: ... because CNN is perceived by a Republican White House as being not the most favorite place to go just as a Democratic White House doesn't go to that other place first.
LEMON: That is perception, though. And it's not the truth.
ZOLLER: It is. I agree with you. That's why I'm here.
LEMON: OK. So you think it was good for him to come on?
ZOLLER: I think it was good for him to come on. And I think he defended his positions well.
LEMON: OK. Warren, here's a thing. He said no, no, no, we're not responsible for the economy. We're not responsible for the bad stuff. We have a lot going on. We had Katrina. We had 9/11. We had all these things. We had just a bad economy. Not our fault. Oh, but the good stuff, Iraq, we'll take responsibility for that.
WARREN BALLENTINE, RADIO HOST, "WARREN BALLENTINE SHOW": Well, when you tell a lie long enough, you start to believe it's the truth. And, therefore, you regurgitate that same lie over and over and over again. And, look, you know, I think Cheney was very smart for coming on CNN. And I think if you're a newsmaker, you want to be on CNN and nowhere else.
LEMON: Thank you, Warren.
BALLENTINE: And honestly, I will say this about Iraq. You know, I'm disappointed that he would make that statement about Iraq only because I know the constitution. They kept saying we're at war with Iraq. It was an invasion of Iraq. We never declared war in Congress. And because we never declared a war, we invaded Iraq.
LEMON: OK, let's...
BALLENTINE: We essentially did.
LEMON: All right. Let's move on now...
(CROSSTALK)
ZOLLER: But if you read the whole interview, if you saw the whole interview, which I hope people will, he really did a great job at defending all of the things that were happening.
LEMON: OK, Martha, we've got to move on. Thank you. Thank you.
ZOLLER: OK.
LEMON: All right, let's talk about Mexico now. Because I know a lot of your listeners are weighing in on this and will be tomorrow.
ZOLLER: Sure.
LEMON: Especially after nine bodies found in shallow graves. They are close to the border. It is escalating. I said this last night, and I've been saying it. People who live, you know, Middle America, north, you know, up north, they think it's not going to come to their town. Then they're absolutely wrong.
BALLENTINE: It's coming. It's coming.
ZOLLER: Well, they've been talking about this kind of violence on the border for a long time. But it has escalated dramatically. And I have to tell you, it is scary, because it is a war there below the border. And Mexico's government, I got to take my hat off to Calderon for fighting this -- President Calderon for fighting this. But it is a war down below there.
LEMON: Yes. And the teenagers who are losing their lives and also becoming killers and also selling drugs here -- Warren, what are they saying on your show?
BALLENTINE: Well, this hits directly to my listeners, because when the Mexican population comes to America, they can't afford to live in the middle class areas. They live in the poor, rural and urban areas. So they're having these wars. These killings have been going on in black communities for a while. And one of the things that we need to do as a community is talk about how black and brown, and everybody in this country can come together. Because we may have come here on different ships, but right now, we're all in the same boat.
LEMON: OK, real quickly, we need to talk about -- this was big news at the end of the week. The NAACP lawsuit -- class action lawsuit against two lenders.
Warren?
BALLENTINE: Well, I'm glad that they filed this suit. However, I think all they needed to do was pull the cuffs to be able to see if the suit has merit or not. But I am glad they filed a suit, because everybody wants to blame the lenders for loaning to minorities and other people for what happened in this housing crisis. But in reality, only five percent of African-Americans are homeowners in this country. So it's some other stuff that's going on while this mortgage industry hit the way it is.
(CROSSTALK)
ZOLLER: Well, and the fact is -- and what has to be done in addition to the suit is that we've got to do a better job in America, black, white or brown in talking about what it is to own a home and what's involved. It's not just signing on the dotted line and paying the mortgage every month. There is a lot more involved in owning a home. And it takes time and effort to get there.
BALLENTINE: But the banks did a lot of this, too, because they gave mortgages without proving anything.
LEMON: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
ZOLLER: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But it's a lot of home work that you have to do, too, as well, Warren and Martha before you buy a home.
ZOLLER: That's right.
LEMON: And why you're doing it, and why you're sitting there at the table after closing or what have you, it's not ending. Once you sign those papers (INAUDIBLE), it is yours to keep.
BALLENTINE: That's right.
LEMON: Thank you both.
ZOLLER: Thanks, guys.
BALLENTINE: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: Well, check this wild scene out.
(VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: These are probably the prettiest fighters you're ever going to see -- bold and beautiful brawl. America's Next Top Models taking it to the streets and having a brawl. What happened?
And we've heard plenty about President Obama's first 100 days. But what about the First Lady? We will take a closer look at how she is working to redefine her role.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Want to be on top? Well, that's the theme for the reality show, "America's Next Top Model."
(VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, you know what? When this scene happened at a New York City audition, the melee made it to the top of the headlines, that is. Police believe it was a combination of a fight that had broken out in the crowd, a car backfiring and then someone yelling bomb! Now listen to some of the people who were there when all this went down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got off by the train station over here. We walked around the block and try to block. And nobody knew what was going on. Some people are facing one direction; some people are facing another direction. And we were asking people where is the back of the line. Nobody knew where the back of the line were; where is the front of the line was. So we stood there for about an hour until everyone just started running to one direction which is this way so we run, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were running around the corner. People were dropping their chairs, their blankets, pushing, cursing. It's just really crazy -- pandemonium, actually.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's ridiculous down here. It's not -- they're not in the line. They're not being sufficient enough. Everybody is just taking over. And it's just being overcrowded. People are not doing what they're supposed to be doing.
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LEMON: We talked to divas (INAUDIBLE) after they became models. But when it was all said and done, three people went to jail. Six people were hurt. And just hours ago, we received this statement from the show's host, Tyra Banks, and her executive producer.
Here's what they say. "We are concerned by the events that occurred Saturday afternoon in the vicinity of the New York City casting call for the next cycle of "America's Next Top Model." At this time, we still don't know all the details of what happened or what triggered the incident. We appreciate the efforts of the NYPD and will assist them in any way possible in this matter." That's from Tyra Banks.
Here's what you guys are saying about this story. BUCKLINGA says, "Guess the model rioters won't be going on to the next round."
Enemywithin64 says, "Let's focus on the fundamental parts of the economy that are strong, that's different than "the fundamentals of the economy is strong." I think he says the fundamentals of the economy are strong.
JVaun says, "Hey media, we're not children. We know if we can or cannot afford to go out and spend. If we can afford, there are deals, buy!"
Starman1695 says, "Why are you even comparing President Obama's remarks with that of McCain. They are not even close to being the same."
We appreciate your comments, even if you don't agree with us. Thank you. Keep them coming this hour -- Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, iReport.com.
Two generations of inspirational African-American women, Michelle Obama and Diahann Carroll. We're taking a closer look at how the first lady is making her new job her own and my candid conversation with Diahann Carroll about how she broke barriers and changed the face of television.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: You know, it is fair to say that the country has been focused on President Obama's first two months as president. But the first lady, Michelle Obama, has been no shrinking violet. First Lady has used her unique position to make an indelible mark on everything she's done and everywhere she goes. She's met with military families. She's gotten her daughters settled into the White House. And she has hosted elegant White House parties. Just to name a few things that she's done. She has been a very busy woman.
Liza Mundy is a feature writer for "The Washington Post," and a recent biography of Michelle Obama portrays the first lady as a woman shaped by living much of her life on, quote, "contested terrain."
Liza, thanks for joining us. What do you mean by that?
LIZA MUNDY, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, she's lived her life, you know, sort of in the post civil rights era. And a lot of landscapes opened up to her during her lifetime that had not been opened up to say to her parents. And -- but it hasn't been easy, necessarily, moving through an America that was opening up during and after the civil rights movement.
LEMON: You know -- and following this -- because it was history in the making, the campaign and then, of course, the win. And when you were (INAUDIBLE) this book, did you learn anything? Did you grow as a person? Did you learn anything about her and the country and about you?
MUNDY: Well, I learned a lot about the social history of this country during her lifetime. Her parents moved into a neighborhood in Chicago that previously had been open only to white families. White families are moving out as black families moving in. So as a child, she would have had domestic experience of seeing her own family moving up in the world, but understanding that white families were moving away for some reason.
Similarly, when she was at Princeton University, and I was there at roughly the same time, the campus had only recently opened up to women and to African-Americans in any number. And there was a lot of controversy on campus about the arrival of newcomers. So she lived through -- she's experienced definitely way expanded opportunity than her parents would have had.
LEMON: Did you know her at Princeton?
MUNDY: I didn't. We would have over the last five years, but I didn't know her there.
LEMON: OK. So listen, I have read about this biography. You've written about it. You had trouble getting access. And especially during the time you were trying to get it, because it was that controversial comment on the campaign trail, where they said, oh, for the first time I've been proud of my country. And it garnered so much press. She said it was taken out of context. What did you think? You had trouble getting access. And one reason was because of that. MUNDY: Yes. I think that the campaign became very careful. They wanted to sort of clamp down. They didn't want any surprises. And they didn't particularly want anyone else saying anything that would be, you know, read wrong or would go viral on the Internet. So that made it different.
LEMON: But that is a good place to start for a biography, though.
MUNDY: Yes. And also, she has passed through so many -- the world is full of people whose paths have crossed Michelle Obama's at some point. At Princeton, at Harvard, at her law firm. Places she's worked in Chicago. You know, there are hundreds of people who have known her, come into contact with her at some point in her life.
LEMON: Yes. What I'm getting at, though, is that some people thought like, hey, I know what she's talking about. Others said, oh, wow, I can't believe she said that.
MUNDY: Absolutely. And particularly talking to people who grew up in South Side Chicago and segregated Chicago, who knew segregated America. Several people I talked to separately quoted essentially the same phrase.
LEMON: Right.
MUNDY: You can love your country without always feeling proud of it. It led me to believe that this was a comment that she had probably heard growing up, that she would not have thought was really that big of a deal to say.
LEMON: All right. Liza Mundy, we've got to run. Thank you very much. We look forward to the book, "Contested Terrain." (INAUDIBLE)
MUNDY: Thanks for having me.
LEMON: Thank you. And have a good night.
Actress, author, singer, Diahann Carroll outspoken and uncensored. And speaking out about the role that made her a living legend.
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DIAHANN CARROLL, ACTRESS: I was charmed. And I did think it was something that was making a statement. It was only through time that I came to believe what sort of a statement it made.
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LEMON: Talking about the role of Julia. It is a conversation you're going to want to see.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Diahann Carroll, actress, singer and author. She is also the first African-American to have her own network series. The show was called "Julia," and Diahann Carroll is called dynamic for the way she embodies any character from script to screen, even now.
In our continuing series, "Up From a Past: African-American Firsts," here is my one-on-one conversation with the incomparable Diahann Carroll.
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LEMON (voice-over): A young Diahann Carroll, what Hollywood called a triple threat -- good looking, talented, smart. Today, still a triple threat, just a bit wiser.
CARROLL: This is still a wonderful time. I have the opportunity to look back. And I don't have to rush about it.
LEMON: Her life could fill a book, and it does in "The Legs Are Last to Go," a self-penned tell all about aging, acting, discrimination in Hollywood and, of course, relationships, marriage and divorce.
(on camera): Why were you married four times?
CARROLL: Because I wouldn't accept the fact that I was truly married already. I'm a very-married-to-what-I-do person. First, it was difficult for most males to handle.
LEMON (voice-over): Her relationships read like a who's who. British TV host David Frost, marriage and a painful divorce from entertainer Vic Damone and a torrid affair with Sidney Poitier.
CARROLL: And I do believe the love was very profound, because the breaking point really was painful for both of us. He had children. I have a child. He was married. I was married.
LEMON: Turmoil in her personal life and her professional one and plenty of it. Not only was it difficult to get a role, it was still a battle once she landed it. Early on as a stage actress, some directors and producers refused to work with a black actress. She was passed over for the movie version of a role she played on Broadway, the same role where just days before she made history, becoming the first black woman to win a Tony Award for best actress.
And once, she says the famous composer Richard Rodgers uninvited her to a cast party because the white hostess thought it would be confusing for her children to meet a sophisticated black woman. But Carroll learned to stand up for herself.
CARROLL: Get out of it. You don't need it. Walk away from all of it.
LEMON: By 1968, during the height of the civil rights movement, when the TV role of "Julia" finally came around, Carroll made sure the character was not the stereotypical one for blacks at the time, A driver or a maid.
CARROLL: First you tell me to buy a car. And now you're going to tell me where to buy it.
LEMON (on camera): Do you feel in anyway that Julia, because it was a big deal, over time that you in any way shaped, or did you have any influence on the civil rights movement?
CARROLL: I was charmed by Julia. And I did think it was something that was making a statement. It was only through time that I came to believe what sort of a statement it made.
LEMON (voice-over): Julia, the first series with an African- American woman in the lead role, lasted three seasons. But feedback from both whites and blacks was brutal.
(on camera): You got it from both sides.
CARROLL: Oh, you don't -- "your show doesn't tell it like it is." And until I was just tired of hearing that because the assumption that there is one, quote, "like it is," unquote, for blacks is insulting.
LEMON (voice-over): Carroll moved on. In 1974, she finally did play a maid.
CARROLL, "CLAUDINE": Sorry about being late. That lady kept me. And I had to sweat out on that long ride on that bus.
LEMON: Starring in "Claudine" with James Earl Jones.
CARROLL: I'll always be extremely proud of "Claudine." That was a piece of work that I never slept during the filmmaking.
LEMON: And by the 1980s, Carroll had gone from a nurse in "Julia," a maid in "Claudine," a washed up silent movie queen Norma Desmond on stage, a doting mother in Bill Cosby's "A Different World" to a wealthy vixen, Dominique Deveraux, in ABC's "Dynasty."
CARROLL, "DYNASTY": It's burned.
JOAN COLLINS, "DYNASTY": Is it?
CARROLL, "DYNASTY": The champagne was obviously frozen in the bottle at some point.
LEMON (on camera): Did you call Aaron Spelling and say, I have got to be a part.
CARROLL: I did. I certainly did. I said, you have to. You need me. You definitely need me. I mean, there are no black people, which is a disgrace in this day and age.
CARROLL, "DYNASTY": Alexis? I didn't thank you for your present. CARROLL: That's how we got this lady that kept slapping Joan, and Joan kept slapping me. But everybody seemed to love it. It had about as much validity as eating Popsicles. But we really had a wonderful time.
LEMON (voice-over): In her 70s now, Diahann Carroll hasn't stopped. She guest stars in the hit ABC series "Grey's Anatomy." And is this year's "Essence" magazine Woman of the Year, a role model for young actors like Halle Berry.
HALLE BERRY, ACTRESS: I'm so honored to be in a room with Diahann Carroll who is just -- there are no words.
LEMON: Diahann Carroll's own assessment of her life is simple...
CARROLL: I hope I made it seem easier than it was.
LEMON: And she always gets the last word. Just ask her.
CARROLL: (INAUDIBLE).
LEMON (on camera): We're not going to fight.
CARROLL: Thank you.
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LEMON: She said it's awful to slap someone, and then she slapped me anyway. Thank you, Diahann Carroll.
Our series continues Sunday night at 7:00 and 10:00 p.m. Eastern. We're back in a moment.
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LEMON: I'm Don Lemon. "D.L. HUGHLEY BREAKS THE NEWS" right now.
