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17 Dead in Plane Crash; Tokyo FedEx Plane Crashes; Oakland Police Department's Deadliest Day; Obama Plans under Pressure; Record Flooding on the Way; The Next AIG; The Basketball Biz
Aired March 22, 2009 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. And our breaking news tonight. Two plane crashes and the pictures say it all. One plane crashed in Butte, Montana; the other in Tokyo, Japan. In Japan, the jet explodes in a ball of fire. It is astonishing to see the FedEx cargo plane as it crash lands, bouncing violently at least twice before flipping and bursting into flames.
That plane, that only took seconds. Meantime, the crash in Butte, Montana, involved a single-engine plane, coming down just short of the runway. Apparently, no one on board survived. At least 17 people are dead, including children. Two good Samaritans who tried to help out captured one of the first images shortly after the plane slammed into a nearby cemetery. Just moments after the crash, I spoke live here on CNN with the couple who took that picture and rushed over to try to help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOICE OF MARTHA GUIDONI, EYEWITNESS TO CRASH: We were right about a quarter of a mile away from the cemetery, and we went right into the cemetery because my husband's military-minded. He wanted to help, if he could. And when he got over to the fire, everything was gone.
VOICE OF STEVEN GUIDONI, EYEWITNESS TO CRASH: I'd seen the plane come out of the sky and impact the ground. I didn't see it hit the ground, but I knew where it hit. It was in a cemetery. So I went in there, turned in there to see if I could go help out and I got there and just everything was on fire. And there wasn't much left. The plane, actually, was embedded in the ground, went into the ground and it caught a big tree on fire. I looked in the crater to see if I could see any body I could pull out or anything, but there was nothing there. I couldn't see nothing. Some luggage thrown around and fire, that was about it. Some plane parts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The single-engine plane took off from Redlands in southern California this morning. It stopped in Orville, California, to refuel and then headed to Bozeman, Montana. But along the way, the flight plan changed and the plane headed to Butte, Montana.
Earlier I spoke with Gerry O'Brien from the "Montana Standard," who's been covering this story since the beginning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What are you hearing about the scene around the plane crash? Has it been closed off? What do you know?
VOICE OF GERRY O'BRIEN, "MONTANA STANDARD": Well, that's exactly true. It's been closed off to anybody that is trying to get in there. There's a lot of safety personnel surrounding the cemetery. We had a couple of eyewitnesses that actually went into the cemetery right after the crash and they took some photos and they tried to help in any way possible, but they said there were no survivors. It did looked like the plane crashed in the cemetery itself, and see there was a -- but, we believe the plane was loaded with young children that were on a ski vacation on their way to Bozeman, Montana.
LEMON: Oh, man. OK, where are you getting that information from, Gerry?
O'BRIEN: Oh, that's from one of the fireman out there at the scene.
LEMON: Young children.
O'BRIEN: Young children, yes.
LEMON: OK.
O'BRIEN: We don't know why it got diverted from Bozeman, but we have that same information. One of the eyewitnesses a young kid, who is about 14, with the Civil Air Patrol. So he's a trainer for a pilot -- he's training to be a pilot. He said that it looked like a stunt plane and the pilot was kind of weaving back and forth before he went into a nose dive, and then didn't seem to be able to pull out of it.
LEMON: So Gerry, you said that it was young children on a ski vacation, at least according to reporting.
O'BRIEN: Right.
LEMON: CNN has not confirm that, and that the witnesses said that it looked like it was a stunt plane because of what it was doing and all of a sudden disaster.
O'BRIEN: Yes, kind of a small Cessna plane they said, but, apparently, it was much bigger than that. I mean, a Pilatus PC-12, I believe. And it was leased from a company called Eagle Leasing in California. And they were supposedly to land in Bozeman, Montana, where there's a few ski areas around there. So if they were on a ski vacation, that's probably where they be going.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Very latest information here at CNN. We're working on that from both of these crashes, the one in Butte, Montana. But we want to move on now to the other tragic crash that we're following tonight. This one in Tokyo's Narita Airport. You can see on this incredible video, and it is horrific sight to see. It is a FedEx cargo plane arriving from China with a pilot and co-pilot aboard, both of them were killed. Investigators already are trying to determine weather conditions may have played in this crash -- weather played a role or not. It is Monday morning in Tokyo and that's where our Kyung Lah standing by for us with the very latest on the identity of the pilots and the crash investigation.
What are you hearing, Kyung?
KYUNG LAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, we have learned that the two men who were the pilot and the co-pilot of this FedEx flight -- FedEx cargo flight were indeed U.S. citizens. The hospital confirms to us they are both men and U.S. citizens. We are refraining from reporting any further details because we do not know if their families have, indeed, been notified.
The U.S. embassy says at this point they are waiting for further word from FedEx. A very tragic loss for FedEx this morning. Let's give you a look now, though, at what happened.
This is a traffic camera. This is one of those fixed traffic cameras for one of Japan's national broadcasts. And you can see the plane approaching, the plane bounces once, bounces again, leans over to the left, bursts into flames, and it ended up upside down for a few hours. This very, very hot fire burned and burned. Fire crews were there immediately. Hazmat crews trying to put out this very hot fire that was fueled by all that jet engine fuel.
At this point what Narita does tell us is that they were able to extract the two men, but they did not survive their injuries. This was FedEx Flight 80. The plane is MD11. And at this point, the first thing that investigators are looking at is wind. There were a number of sharp wind gusts that were happening at the time that the plane landed. It was just before 7:00 a.m. Tokyo Time. Those wind gusts reported to be anywhere from 30 to 50 miles per hour. So that's the very first thing investigators are looking at.
But Don, having covered many of these incidents throughout the country, you know that there are going to be a number of things they look at. Not just the weather, but whether there was any sort of mechanical error or human error involved. But again, we have been able to confirm is that there are two U.S. citizens who were the crew of this flight, only two people aboard this cargo plane, Don.
LEMON: Kyung Lah from Tokyo, Japan, reporting tonight. Thank you, Kyung.
Meantime, the Oakland, California police department is in mourning tonight, having suffered its deadliest day in history. Four officers killed in the line of duty from a single gunman. Christien Kafton of our affiliate KTVU joins us now with the very latest on that -- Christien.
CHRISTIEN KAFTON, KTVU-TV CORRESPONDENT: Well, good evening, Don. Take a look here in front of Oakland police headquarters and you can see that the pile of flowers here is growing. An impromptu memorial to those four officers. They piled up today as news came out throughout the city, confirmation that John Hege, the fourth officer injured in yesterday's shootout died this morning.
Oakland police say Hege spent his life protecting and serving others, and he may have one final gift to offer. He is still in the hospital, and we can tell you that the hospital is working right now with his family on donating his organs. Now, police say Officer Hege, Sergeant Daniel Sakai, Sergeant Mark Dunakin and Sergeant Ervin Romans were all shot and killed in a shootout yesterday with Lovelle Mixon. He was also shot and killed today. Stopped by police headquarters including California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. He stopped by as well today. And also spoke with Oakland Mayor Ron Dellums offering his condolences in light of this terrible tragedy that happened here in Oakland.
We can also tell you that Jerry Brown is pointing the fingers squarely at California. He's the attorney general for California. And he's pointing his finger at the state parole and correction system. He says that the system is broken and because that system is broken, there are thousands of unmonitored parolees out on the streets. We're live in Oakland. Christien Kafton for CNN.
LEMON: And I'm sure much more details to come out of this. Christien, we appreciate your reporting.
We want to get back to our top stories now. Deadly plane crashes in Tokyo and Butte, Montana. We're following developments and bringing you updates as soon as we get them.
Also, up to a trillion of your taxpayers' dollars on the line here as the administration tries to figure out a way to take those bad bank loans off the books. Of course, as always, we want you to be on our show. Part of our community here -- Twitter, Facebook, MySpace or iReport.com. We'll get your responses on the air.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: These two stories were developing as we're on the air tonight. So we want to give you a quick update on our breaking news tonight. Two deadly plane crashes, one in the U.S., the other one in Japan. In Butte Montana, a single-engine plane comes down just short of the runway. Apparently, no one on board survive that one. At least 17 people dead, including children.
And in the one in Tokyo, a FedEx cargo plane crash lands, bouncing violently at least twice before flipping and bursting into flames. The pilot and the co-pilot, both Americans, were killed.
In the Butte, Montana crash, we're monitoring a news conference. You see there. The National Transportation and Safety Board holding a press conference there. If any news comes out of that, we will bring that to you right here in the CNN NEWSROOM. But we are watching and listening closely, and we'll update you in this broadcast.
Meantime, to the economy and Washington. Up to a trillion dollars in taxpayer money, your money on the line here. Tomorrow, the president and the administration will reveal its plan to take bad loans off the books at the nation's banks. We don't know the details yet. And you can better believe it will be expensive, it will be complex and most likely controversial. CNN Kate Bolduan reports from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Obama administration hasn't even unveiled its long-awaited banking plan, and it's already out managing expectations.
CHRISTINA ROMER, CHAIRWOMAN, COUNCIL OF ECON. ADVISERS: I don't think Wall Street is expecting, you know, the silver bullet. This is one more piece. It's a crucial piece to get those toxic assets off, but it is -- it is just part of it, and there will be more to come.
BOLDUAN: The plan is aimed at unloading bad assets from bank balance sheets in order to get financial institutions lending again. How? By the government teaming up with private investment firms to buy the assets with the government putting up most of the money. Obama advisers insist bringing in private funds will lessen the burden on taxpayers already reeling from bailout fatigue.
AUSTEN GOOLSBEE, WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC ADVISER: One of the reasons you want to have the partnership is precisely so that, "A," the government doesn't massively overpay for these troubled assets that are on the balance sheets, and, "B," so that everybody's got skin in the game.
BOLDUAN: The idea leaving some Democratic allies uneasy.
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D-NY), WAYS & MEANS CMTE. CHAIRMAN: And I'm really surprised that we have to go to people that come from the fiscal families that caused this problem to try to help us to get out of it.
BOLDUAN: And just as the White House starts promoting the latest element of its economic agenda, the president is facing a battle over another big priority: his budget.
SEN. JUDD GREGG (R), NEW HAMPSHIRE: If we maintain the proposals which are in this budget over the 10-year period that our -- that this budget covers, this country will go bankrupt.
BOLDUAN: Even some key Democrats don't like it, citing a recent report by the Congressional Budget Office projecting a more than $9 trillion deficit over the next decade.
SEN. KENT CONRAD (D-ND), BUDGET CMTE. CHAIRMAN: I'm especially concerned about the long-term. I believe these new numbers from the Congressional Budget Office tell us that we are going to have to do much more to get this country's fiscal future back on track.
BOLDUAN (on camera): As Congress is set to take up the budget, a big question is: how will Wall Street receive the bank plan this week? The last time Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner offered a broad outline of the plan, the Dow plunged more than 4 percent that same day.
Kate Bolduan, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right, Kate. Well, make sure you stay with CNN. We'll have extensive coverage of Secretary Geithner's announcement on tomorrow.
And President Barack Obama continues his lobbying efforts. Tuesday night, with a primetime news conference. CNN's special coverage begins at 7:45 Eastern with The Best Political Team on Television.
We're keeping an eye on two top stories here on CNN. Deadly plane crashes, one in Tokyo, the other in Butte, Montana. The NTSB already involved in the Montana crash, and CNN can also confirm that the NTSB will send a team to Tokyo to assist in that investigation, as well. We're monitoring a press conference right here, happening right now in the United States as it concerns the Butte, Montana, crash. Details and developments from that in the broadcast.
Also, the outrage over AIG bonuses. Did Congress go too far this week in lashing out at the insurance giant?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We're going to be hearing a lot from the president over the next week. On Monday, he returns from Camp David for budget talks. On Tuesday, he meets with Australia's prime minister. That night, he'll hold a news conference and CNN will have complete coverage for you. On Wednesday, the president meets with Senate Democrats over, you guessed it, the budget. And that evening he attends a fund-raiser for the Democratic National Committee.
Everyone's angry on that and we all can agree on that, but not everyone is sure what to do about those millions of dollars in bonuses paid out to AIG executives. We're already starting to hear second thoughts about a house plan that hits the execs with a 90 percent tax.
We want to bring in now political editor Mark Preston to talk about all of this.
Mark, thank you for joining us tonight. Here's what I want to ask you. When we're talking about all of these things, the Congress, AIG going overboard, did Congress go overboard with this AIG outrage that they had been distributing here, showing here?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, Don, no question that they certainly reacted to outrage. They moved very quickly to try to get this bill passed in the House, and they were successful in doing so. Of course, it's moved over to the Senate now, and it has been slow walk, so to speak. But what this does shows, Don, is the fact that these members of Congress here, that you send to Washington, D.C., are not reading the language, they're not reading the bills, and that's what Republicans were complaining about as they were trying to push this bill through Congress last month.
LEMON: And Lynn Sweet, the bureau chief of the "Chicago Sun- Time", Washington bureau chief, she joins us here, as well.
Lynn, you know, I spoke earlier with Bill Schneider who said that they are sort of the congressmen here are reading the tea leaves of constituents, and it's because of this outrage that they are being so upset or showing their outrage at least about this.
LYNN SWEET, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "CHICAGO SUN-TIMES": Well, it's the house representatives, that's the first line of populous reaction and that's why the Senate is going to be a little more considerate in what they are going to do and the House did vote to basically tax most of the bonuses. The house representatives have to be elected every two years, Don. And they have to be responsive because their jobs are also on the line. They don't get ahead of this.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: So you don't think it's posturing? You don't think it's posturing?
SWEET: I think it's reaction. And the house representatives is the first line of reaction. And I don't necessarily call that posturing.
LEMON: OK.
SWEET: I call it what it is. Reaction, the Senate will have a more considered response.
LEMON: If I can just get a short answer from you on this one. Mark, you know, we have been talking a lot, we have been hearing a lot about the president. It's just -- he's too ambitious. He's taking on too much here. Is that the consensus in Washington and what you're hearing around the country?
PRESTON: It is the consensus here in Washington. But it is what we're seeing around the country, Don. CNN just did a recent poll, 55 percent of Americans think that Barack Obama is trying to get too many things through the Congress.
LEMON: Lynn?
SWEET: I think -- I don't know what everyone else is thinking, but if he doesn't get the pipeline filled up now, it's easier now than later on.
LEMON: OK, let's talk about this AIG, this tax. You know, 90 percent taxes. You know, is AIG -- if this thing clears, do you think the president is going to veto it? Because it appeared if you listened to the Sunday shows and to the language that's coming out now that they may be setting themselves up not to vote for this. SWEET: I think the biggest favor that the Senate could do right now is not send a bill to President Obama. He sent every signal that he doesn't want to sign the bill as is. The phrase you're going to keep hearing is that he doesn't want to govern out of anger, and that's what the House version is right now.
LEMON: OK, Mark, on this, what do you think?
PRESTON: You know, Don, absolutely what Lynn just said. The fact is the president doesn't want to deal with this and he doesn't want to see this bill move out of the Senate. The pickle that he's in, Don, he came to Washington on this whole mantra of change. He was going to change things. And I'll tell you what... (CROSSTALK)
LEMON: So Mark, then what are we going to see out of this come Tuesday then. Take us forward to Tuesday.
PRESTON: Well, look, he's certainly is in a pickle, and I don't think he's going to veto this bill. But on Tuesday, when he does address the nation, he has to now move the ball forward on his budget, Don. You know, he has this lofty goals on what he wants to do with education, renewable energy, you know, a whole host of things. He needs to start selling to the American people again because he needs to keep them on his side.
LEMON: Lynn, I see you're shaking your head. Well, one of the things he's going to do tomorrow is talk about -- or his Treasury Department is going to talk about how they're taking on the toxic assets and starting a new way of re-regulating our financial markets so he can come to the Tuesday press conference and talk about something new.
He wants to fast-forward this and try and just get ahead of the AIG. I'm sure there will be questions at the press conference on that. So I'm sure there will be people that want to plow a new ground, too. There's a lot out there.
LEMON: Lynn Sweet, Mark Preston, thanks to both of you. Really appreciate it. We're going to be watching you guys next week, because you are going to be busy, as well.
SWEET: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you. It is very busy night here on CNN, because we're following several breaking stories here, keeping an eye on them for you. Deadly plane crashes, one in Tokyo, the other in Montana. The latest developments taking a look at where this investigation begins.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Welcome back, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. Let's get a quick update for you in our breaking news tonight. Two deadly plane crashes, one in the U.S., the other in Japan. First to Butte, Montana, single-engine plane comes down on the edge of a cemetery, just short of the runway. Apparently no one onboard survived. At least 17 people are dead.
In Tokyo, a FedEx cargo plane crash lands, bouncing violently at least twice before flipping and bursting into flames. The pilot and the co-pilot, both Americans, both of them were killed.
An investigation team from the NTSB is en route to Butte, Montana, from Washington. It is believed some of the victims were children heading to Montana on a ski trip. Earlier, I spoke with Steven and Martha Guidoni who say the plane went down. They saw the plane went down and then they rush to that site.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOICE OF M. GUIDONI: My husband and I were going down Harrison Avenue, and we were just taking a ride, and all of a sudden we watched this plane just take a nose dive right into the cemetery. We drove into the cemetery to see if there was anyway my husband could help someone and we were too late. There was nothing to help.
LEMON: You appeared to be pretty shaken up by this.
M. GUIDONI: I am, I am. I've never seen anything like this in my life. So, this is like a major shock to me.
LEMON: I would imagine seeing something like this for anyone. It's just unfathomable that it could happen. How soon after this crash did you take this picture?
M. GUIDONI: Within probably five to seven minutes.
LEMON: So you're pretty close.
M. GUIDONI: Yes. Yes. We were right about a quarter of a mile away from the cemetery, and we went right into the cemetery because my husband's military-minded. He wanted to help, if he could. And when he got over to the fire, everything was gone.
VOICE OF S. GUIDONI: I'd seen the plane come out of the sky and impact the ground. I didn't see it hit the ground, but I knew where it hit. It was in a cemetery. So I went in there, turned in there to see if I could go help out and I got there and just everything was on fire. And there wasn't much left. The plane, actually, was embedded in the ground, went into the ground and it caught a big tree on fire. I looked in the crater to see if I could see any body I could pull out or anything, but there was nothing there. I couldn't see nothing. Some luggage thrown around and fire, that was about it. Some plane parts.
LEMON: And that was -- you were looking down into a cavernous pit, you say.
S. GUIDONI: Yes. It was a hole probably, I don't know, 20 feet deep or so, maybe.
LEMON: You're a military man, did you serve, Mr. Guidoni.
S. GUIDONI: Yes, I did.
LEMON: In you war time, did you ever see anything like this?
S. GUIDONI: Yes, I have.
LEMON: And you would want to help out in this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Meantime, the investigation into the crash of a FedEx cargo plane in Tokyo is well under way. Here's what happened. You can see it on this incredible video, and it is horrific to see. The plane was arriving from China when it bounced twice, veered left, then burst into flames. The pilot and co-pilot, as we have reported, were both Americans and both of them killed. Investigators are already trying to determine whether weather was a condition in this crash. Strong winds, 30 to 50 miles per hour were reported in the area at the time of that crash. We turn now to our meteorologist Jacqui Jeras.
Jacqui, weather, winds in Tokyo at the airport during that time.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, 30 to 50. That's what we were seeing, some occasional gusts throughout the area. You know, skies overall were clear. On Google Earth, though, you'll see a bunch of cloudiness east of Japan and there is a big, strong cold front that had moved on through. So there you can see. This is where all the precipitation would be, but back here, we have this strong, gusty winds. And as we take a look at a graph here, this is the wind speed and all you want to notice is right here, look at that jump that goes right up there.
That is where we were according to those stronger wind gusts and that was right around the time of the crash. So wind, potentially, could have been a factor or a contributing factor, possibly.
Now, as for what was happening in the Montana area at the time, we did have a little bit of light, what we would call virga. So that's precipitation that evaporates before it reaches the ground. Now we've got snow which is pushed in. The winds were, you know, about 10 miles per hour. We had some gusts up to 20. I think it's less likely that weather was involved in the Montana crash -- Don.
LEMON: Thank you very much now for that, Jacqui.
We're going to turn now to get some expert advice from Mary Schiavo. She's a former inspector general with the Federal Transportation Department. Today, she works for the private law firm that represents plane crash victims in lawsuits against airlines. She joins us now by phone from Charleston, South Carolina.
I'm sure you have been able to pay attention to the news, especially what happened in Montana. Let's talk about that first. All weather conditions appeared to be OK. Could this have been a weight issue, Ms. Schiavo?
VOICE OF MARY SCHIAVO, AVIATION ATTORNEY: Yes, it could have. This aircraft is only certified for nine passengers. Granted, they said that they were children, but unless people were holding them in their laps, which is not a safe way to fly, only nine passengers and two crew.
So, that is what the plane is certified for. The maximum weight when you're landing this plane, you're only allowed to have 9,000 pounds on it, and the empty weight is almost 6,000 pounds. So, that's not a lot of -- that's not a lot of leeway.
LEMON: OK. And when you look at this kind of plane, I'm not sure, Ms. Schiavo, if you know about the safety record of this particular airplane?
SCHIAVO: Yes. You know, there's lots of -- it's in use all over the world. It's Swiss manufacturer. The United States government has some. Lots of other governments have them. They do have them sometimes in cargo configurations, but it is the largest manufacturer of single-engine airplane now in the world, widely used and has a pretty good record.
But, of course, with allegedly 17 people on a 9-seater airplane or maybe 15 with two pilots, there's not much a good manufactured plane can do if you're overweight.
LEMON: OK. Let's now move on and talk about the conditions in Tokyo, Japan. We understand now that the National Transportation and Safety Board is sending a team over to check into that crash, as well. A FedEx cargo plane crashing. It looks like the winds. When you look at the video, what is your observation of what happened?
SCHIAVO: Well, it does look like the winds, but, surely, these pilots -- the FedEx pilots -- are extremely good, well-trained and it almost looks to me like, perhaps, he was trying to take off again. Pilots don't usually porpoise like that. It has sort of a porpoise movement.
It almost looks as though he was trying to get up again and got caught with a crosswind, and if the wind is very strong, if you're trying to take off and you ram a lot of power, you can get. It's kind of unusual for a heavy plane like that to get blown terribly on a crosswind, but if it was gusting high and you had a bad landing coming in, it's possible the wind could have done that.
LEMON: And, Ms. Schiavo, you know, the last time we saw this was Sioux City, Iowa. Do you remember anything, any video like this, capturing something on tape was Sioux City, Iowa? Do you remember that crash?
SCHIAVO: Oh, yes, indeed, I do. And I know some of the people who survived and in that case, of course, a very different situation because they had lost hydraulics.
LEMON: But this video will no doubt help investigators in this.
SCHIAVO: Absolutely. This video will be very, very useful to help them figure out what happened, as will the black boxes on that FedEx plane. Sadly, there won't be any flight data recorder on the Montana plane.
LEMON: Mary Schiavo is a former Inspector General with the Federal Transportation Department. Today, she works for a private law firm that represents plane crash victims in lawsuits against airlines. We appreciate you joining us late on a Sunday night.
SCHIAVO: Thank you. My pleasure.
LEMON: We're going to continue to keep an eye on this breaking news stories for you and bring you updates as we get them. But first, if you are outraged over AIG's huge bonuses, take a deep breath here. They're not the only failing company handing out big checks. So who's the next AIG?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAL STEELS, IREPORTER: We don't give people who ran their company into the ground billions of dollars. I think it's a little late to ask these corporate executives to grow a conscience. They got away with it, and our government helped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You know, AIG is all the rage in Washington this week as members of Congress took turns going after the bailed out companies, that bonus payouts that we've been talking about. But get ready because AIG is not alone when it comes to huge bonuses handed out by companies bailed out by you and me. Eamon Javers of Politico.com joins us now from Washington.
A very interesting question to you, Eamon -- who is the next AIG? Folks are lining up for that position, aren't they?
EAMON JAVERS, POLITICO.COM: Yes. Hi, Don. Well, we don't really know exactly who the next AIG is. But I can tell you that this whole -- this whole problem all week was about $165 million worth of bonuses that AIG paid out. But we know based on past performances that a lot of the banks that were bailed out by this TARP program likely spent billions of dollars on bonuses to their bankers and Wall Street folks in addition to the $175 million that we saw out of AIG.
The problem is, they won't tell us how much they spent on bonuses this year and they're not required by law to do that. I called all the top ten banks and institutions that received TARP money and asked them to tell us how much they paid in bonuses and they all, with two exceptions, said no. I got to tell you.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: OK. Here's the interesting thing for me. You said we don't know who the next AIG is. And I'm just reading this. I believe that this is from your article. You say that some details have come to light about Merrill Lynch. We're talking about $3.6 billion reportedly in bonuses at the end of 2008, which included 700 payouts of more than a million dollars. That's way more than AIG.
JAVERS: Way more than AIG. And a lot of these TARP banks, these are the banks that have gotten taxpayer money, sometimes tens of billions of dollars in taxpayer money, they may have spent as much of a quarter of that amount on these bonuses for their executives. That's a standard practice on Wall Street. Presumably, the bonuses were lower in 2008 than they've been in past years because performance was so terrible.
But none of them are saying that they didn't pay out any bonuses at all and they're all refusing to disclose how much they did pay out with the two exceptions. Those are General Motors, which told me that they haven't paid a dime in bonuses this year, and then also AIG, which gave us a little bit of detail about their bonus plan that goes beyond this $165 million that we've been talking about.
LEMON: And the short amount of time that we have left, Eamon, just to move this story forward, where do you see this going to as, I'm sure, more information is going to start trickling out about bonuses and people are not going to be happy about it.
JAVERS: Right. Well, there are a couple active investigations right now looking into this, and I think that before too long you're going to see these banks forced to disclose exactly how much money they did spend on bonuses, whether they'll be are expected to claw all that money back or not, that could be pretty devastating for the culture of these Wall Street banks. I don't expect to see that happen. But we might find out exactly how much they paid in bonuses before this is all over.
LEMON: Eamon Javers of Politico.com. Thank you, Eamon.
JAVERS: Thank you.
LEMON: Well, that's how the story is playing within the Beltway. But how is it playing in the heartland? You know, these guys, they' are talk radio hosts. So, Warren Ballentine, Michael Medved, get ready to duke it out. We're going to talk to you guys in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: And we've been talking about the outrage over AIG bonuses. We want to cut to the chase and find out what Americans are saying all around the country about this. Our e-mail boxes here at CNN were full. You should hear some of the voice mails that I got.
On the left, talk radio host Warren Ballentine. On the right, radio host Michael Medved. Thank you, both.
Warren, I'm going to start with you.
WARREN BALLENTINE, RADIO HOST, "THE WARREN BALLENTINE SHOW": All right.
LEMON: This ranks right at the top of the most nasty, the nastiest hate-filled e-mails I got, not towards me, but about what was happening. What about you -- people calling into your show?
BALLENTINE: Well, I got to tell you. My listeners were livid about this AIG bailout. I mean, my listeners are hurting. Americans need jobs. You're having all these companies getting bailed out. And, look, let's be honest. If you want to find the real criminals in this country, you go to Wall Street and see what they're doing for their buddies and their friends.
And, Don, what's even more frightening is we're not getting the truth. We keep hearing about this, the AIG bailout, but what about the Federal Reserve, which isn't even owned by the United States of America, and nobody is talking about these things. And all the regular people are hurting and nobody is saying anything about it.
LEMON: Well, I got an interesting e-mail, Michael, from a viewer here who said, you know, we hear about all these people, they're supposedly at the bottom of the economic scale and that are a drain on the system and the economy, when the folks at the very top were the ones who were getting away with taking most of the money, most of the money out of the economy and we never knew about it.
MICHAEL MEDVED, RADIO HOST, "THE MICHAEL MEDVED SHOW": Well -- and I think the outrage really is directed not just at the people on Wall Street, but the people on Capitol Hill because there is evidence that the Obama administration knew about this, that they pressured Senator Dodd to change the bill to allow these bonuses. And it's a very, very big problem for President Obama because he is now splitting with Democrats on several issues, the most important of them being this deficit and you talk about something that dwarfs the AIG bonuses.
I mean, when this deficit is different, according to the Congressional Budget Office, by about $1 trillion from what President Obama has claimed and there's no way that we can afford this, and people on the Democratic side are talking about America going bankrupt, this is very serious stuff.
LEMON: And Warren, you know, Michael has a point here because there is some evidence, we have it on tape, of Timothy Geithner saying I didn't know until March 10th, but he was questioned about it on March 3rd. How much -- how much leeway are your listeners, Warren, giving the administration because it appears that there is some miscommunication here or someone is just not telling the truth?
BALLENTINE: Well, I think we all have to give the president and the administration a little bit of leeway because of what he inherited when he came into office. But I will say this. If it comes to light that this administration did pressure Senator Dodd to put this amendment in here to allow this loophole, I think not only my listeners but all Americans are going to be very disappointed and very upset because too many people are hurting.
LEMON: And you know, it appears when we heard about the reaction from lawmakers, especially from Congress, it looks like everyone jumped on. Is this a mob mentality? Is this posturing, Warren, or should these people be concerned about what their constituents are saying? BALLENTINE: I just hope the listeners and the viewers do not get bamboozled by these politicians. Look, I'm just going to be honest with you. As far as I'm concerned, with the Congress, it's a talented 10 percent, the rest of them are up there just trying to get a paycheck. I'm just going to be honest with you. I think we should get rid of all of them. Keep that talented 10 and get regular, American citizens up there who understand what we're going through right now and get somebody who is going to fight for us.
MEDVED: Hey, Warren, I largely agree with you, but it's not that they're not concerned about a paycheck; they're concerned about a contribution check.
BALLENTINE: Yes, you're right. You're right.
MEDVED: They're concerned about earmark. They're concerned about spending public money to advance their own political future and the American people are sick of it. This is not a Republican issue. It's not a Democratic issue. People are extraordinarily angry, and I think they're beginning to be disappointed by President Obama because things were supposed to be different. Things were supposed to be new and fresh and hopeful and full of change. It doesn't look like it --
BALLENTINE: Mike...
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LEMON: That's going to have to be the last word here, Warren.
(CROSSTALK)
BALLENTINE: Michael, you got to give him -- you got to give time.
LEMON: Warren, I got to move on.
BALLENTINE: He ain't got 100 days yet. Give him time.
LEMON: All right. Warren Ballentine and Michael Medved, thank you...
BALLENTINE: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: ... both very much for joining us here tonight here on CNN.
MEDVED: Thank you.
LEMON: We're going to get back to our top stories now, the deadly plane crashes in Tokyo and Butte, Montana. We're following developments and bringing you updates as we get them here.
Also, record flooding on the way across North Dakota. A million sandbags being filled up right now, but will it be enough? You know, our Jacqui Jeras keeping an eye on the situation. Her forecast, straight ahead. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. We get a quick update now on our breaking news stories tonight. Two deadly plane crashes, one in the U.S., the other in Japan. In Butte, Montana, a single-engine plane comes down on the edge of a cemetery just short of the runway. Apparently, no one on board survived. At least 17 people are dead. And authorities are requesting the public's help. If you saw anything, write this down. They want you to call this number. 406-497-1120. 406-497-1120 and then it's Extension 1.
Let's go to Tokyo now where a FedEx cargo plane crash lands, bouncing violently at least twice before flipping and bursting into flames. The pilot and the co-pilot, both Americans, were killed in that crash.
We're getting our first iReporters from Butte now -- the plane crash that happened right here in the United States. Dani Rollison and her husband heard about the crash on the local police scanner. They got there about 45 minutes after the crash, but they took these pictures when they got to the scene. And Dani joins us now by telephone.
Dani, thank you very much for this.
VOICE OF DANI ROLLISON, IREPORTER: Hello.
LEMON: Yes, Dani, thank you for joining us tonight. You're live here on CNN. The pictures I'm looking at, it shows -- it looks like some wreckage behind police tape and surrounded by tombstones. Talk to us about the photographs you took.
ROLLISON: Well, when we heard about what happened, we came down here. It's right by where I work. And I couldn't believe it actually happened at the cemetery, but it did. And we tried to get closer to see what happened and a guy came up next to us with a spotting scope and we put our camera to the spotting scope so we could see better and those were the photos we took.
The other one which was just taken from a camera, but it really seems like a not hopeful kind of situation. There was no ambulance leaving or anything. So, it kind of told us the story.
LEMON: I understand that you told my producers that you were extremely upset by this, obviously, your initial reaction when you got there to the scene.
ROLLISON: Well, I think everybody in Butte was, anybody, anywhere would be -- it was just horrible. You know, it crashed right here in a cemetery right by the airport and it's really awful.
LEMON: Dani Rollison snapped this picture. She and her husband went to the scene and took these pictures for us. She is a CNN iReporter in Butte, Montana. His name is Ken Rollison. Thank you very much. Best of luck to you, Dani. The rivers are rising across North Dakota where people are frantically filling sandbags and bracing for record floods. Our Jacqui Jeras -- this is going to be huge, but, Jacqui, it's tough to talk to these iReporters. I hate to bring in there, but we've been talking to witnesses and iReporters all evening with this, and it just breaks your heart. You can imagine the family and friends of the people onboard that plane, as well.
JERAS: Absolutely. Yes, as for the flooding, Don, the situation that we're dealing with there is actually worse than what we originally thought. We've got a new update now on the flood forecast and it looks like it's going to crest a foot higher and maybe a day earlier than what we thought before. So that would be Friday at about a record of 40 feet in the Fargo area along the Red River of the North.
Here's some video of some sandbagging efforts taking place, and officials say they're probably going to need more than 1.5 million sandbags that they were thinking that they needed. So, they're working around the clock and have another couple of days, hopefully, to reach their goals to save the City of Fargo. 5,000 to 6,000 homes are in jeopardy. We had a little bit of rain in that area tonight. More on the way, another one to two inches possible - Don.
LEMON: All right, Jacqui, thank you very much.
We got a lot of depressing and sad news here on this broadcast. So now it's time to lighten up a little bit. Come on, fess up, people, did you join your NCAA March Madness office pool? There's a reason they call it madness and our buddy Rick Horrow will tell you why.
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LEMON: They call it March Madness for good reason. It dominates the sports landscape like few events can. Earlier, I spoke with our sports business analyst Rick Horrow about the NCAA men's basketball tournament.
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LEMON: OK, Rick, let's talk first about office pools. Are they big business? By the way, I miss out on mine. I didn't get in on one. Too late with my brackets.
RICK HORROW, CNN SPORTS BUSINESS ANALYST: Well, of course, they're big business. $3 billion bet by all of us. 45 percent admit it. A lot more probably do it. And even though 15 percent reduction in spending, it is a big deal. By the way, a lot of people are successful, even if you're not. After those games, today, there are 16 slots left and 14 of the favorites are in it. So a lot of upsets early, but not enough to make a difference. By the way, Barack Obama, John McCain and I have the same Final Four as if it matters.
LEMON: You're such a braggart. You're a show-off. But, you know, the real winner in all of this, it's got to be CBS. HORROW: Well, yes, but look at the risk they took. A $6 billion deal, 11-year contract. That's about $570 million a year. That's not chump change. A lot of money. But, wait, 35 sponsors, about $650 million they're getting, and even in this economy, about 20 percent, 25 percent increase over the past few years. So, premium dollars make them not only get the rights fees, but make more money to boot. It's a great investment.
LEMON: Premium dollars, yes, but I understand that some sponsors -- I read somewhere -- are jumping ship and that was according to a survey somewhere. Is it the economy? Why are they doing that?
HORROW: Yes. Well, IG Survey (ph) just came out, and they said that 51 percent of the people, corporate sponsors and marketing directors, are going to cut back on their sponsorships this year. And 47 percent are saying they'd like to get out of their current deals. So, here's what we learned. The big deals like March Madness and the Final Four that's coming up in Detroit, sponsors are there for it. But, other kinds of deals now with this economy, would get to hold on.
LEMON: All right. Rick Horrow, we appreciate it. Good luck.
HORROW: All right, man, next week.
LEMON: Speaking of basketball, it's good time to bring this one up. You know it's hard to imagine these days, but not so long ago the NBA was an all-white sports league. Today, it's about 75 percent African-American.
Who broke that color barrier? A man by the name of Earl Lloyd. And despite his role in history back in 1950, a lot of people had never heard of him and still haven't heard of him, even though you might call him the Jackie Robinson of basketball. He tells me when I sat down with him he is proud of what he did, but he says, there's really no comparison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EARL LLYOD, FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN IN NBA: Jackie Robinson was a renaissance man. I come three years later and all the barriers that I might have experienced, if he had not been there, they were gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We were going to bring that story to you tonight. But because of our breaking news here on CNN, we're going to have to save it for you for next weekend. You can see the full interview with Earl Lloyd next weekend. It's part of our series "Up From A Past: African-American Firsts," and it airs right here 10:00 p.m. Sunday, 7 and 10:00 p.m. on CNN.
Meantime, it's time now to update our top stories. Two deadly plane crashes in Tokyo, the other in Montana. The latest developments, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: Two deadly plane crashes. In Butte, Montana, a single- engine plane comes down just short of the runway. At least 17 people are dead including children. No word on the cause of this one. Authorities are requesting the public's help. They say call 406-497- 1120, Extension 1, if you saw anything.
In Tokyo, a Federal Express cargo plane crash lands amid high winds, bouncing violently at least twice before flipping and bursting into flames. The pilot and the co-pilot, both Americans, were killed. Details on "AMERICAN MORNING."
I'm Don Lemon in Atlanta. "AIG: FACTS AND FURY" begins right now.
