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Obama Meets with Dems to Push Budget; Clinton to Meet with Mexican Officials; Fargo Braces for Record-level Flooding; Veterans Heed Warnings to be Tested after Safety Mistake; Job Seekers Steer Clear of AIG; Cartels New Assassains: U.S. Teens, U.S. Troops to the Mexican Border?; The Not So Fat Cats of Business
Aired March 25, 2009 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: We're pushing forward on the pushback. President Obama tries to sell the biggest budget in U.S. history to a budget-minded Congress. He's live on the Hill this hour, and so are we.
Hillary Clinton's en route to Mexico. Issue number one is the drug wars. The U.S. helps keep them going and pays the price. We're pushing forward on the new offensive from Washington.
Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live at CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. You've live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
So you want the recovery? Buy the budget. In so many words, that's the president's pitch to the lawmakers he most needs to sell on his $3.6 trillion spending plan for 2010. That would be Democrats. Mr. Obama declares his budget inseparable from economic recovery and vital to a secure and lasting prosperity.
Lawmakers are still in sticker shock, we shall say. The president is headed to the Hill. That's Brianna Keilar's turf.
Brianna, do we expect arms to be twisted?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, there's going to be a little arm twisting, Kyra. And as usual, President Obama will also be listening to some concerns.
But this time, yes, he's listening to concerns from Democrats, in particular Senate Democrats, where there are a number of key Dems who have issues with the ambitious budget that President Obama has proposed. Major issue for them is the price tag and the effect that his budget will have on the deficit.
And so they have proposed some cuts, actually a major cut coming from the hand of the Democratic chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, and that is to President Obama's signature tax cut, $400 for individuals, $800 for couples. It will be in place through 2010, but then the tax cut isn't guaranteed after that. That's one way that these Democrats have brought down the cost there, Kyra.
But what you're hearing from Democrats and from the White House is they're trying to minimize that there's any differences between their plans. But there certainly are some differences, and we're paying attention to them, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: There are differences. And normally, the budget doesn't grab this much attention, right?
KEILAR: No. Normally you say budget and I think people might think...
PHILLIPS: Everybody snores.
KEILAR: They take a snooze, right?
PHILLIPS: Exactly.
KEILAR: No. But people are paying attention to this, because with all the promises that President Obama has made and his key priorities -- health care, education, energy -- looking at the budget, what he's proposed, and what Democrats are going to deliver for him. It just gives you a sense of if Democrats really can deliver on those priorities for him, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Brianna Keilar, thank you so much.
And we do have a live picture. We're staking out the president. As soon as he arrives there on Cap Hill we will take it live.
Well, if nobody's asked the question you want answered, now's your chance. The White House is hosting an online town-hall meeting tomorrow morning, and you can post questions on the White House Web site. You can also send them to us. We call it Mail to the Chief. Your e-mails answered by White House official live in the CNN NEWSROOM. Here's our address. It's MailtotheChief@CNN.com.
Trade, immigration, the worldwide recession. All have a place on Hillary Clinton's agenda during a two-day visit to Mexico, but none of it tops the drug war.
The secretary of state is due to land this hour in Mexico City as Washington rolls out a new plan to fight the bloody narco violence that doesn't stop at the border. Clinton had barely taken off when the Mexican government made a bombshell announcement: the arrest of one of its most wanted drug lords.
The head of homeland security is filling Congress in on the White House plan to break the vicious cycle -- and I do mean vicious -- of drugs, guns, kidnapping and murder. That plan would put a lot more money and manpower into law enforcement, crime prevention and intelligence gathering on both sides of the border.
Ahead of her appearance on Capitol Hill, Janet Napolitano joined me yesterday in the NEWSROOM. She said the surge in violence comes from drug lords feeling the heat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANET NAPOLITANO, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: We've been clamping down on the land border so the cartels simultaneously are fighting over ever-diminishing turf, and they're fighting the government of Mexico.
And that's caused 6,000 homicides in Mexico, northern Mexico, last year, 550 of which were law enforcement or public officials who were assassinated by the cartels.
But the cartels got so big and powerful because they were bringing tonnage loads of cocaine and other illegal drugs into our country. And their organizations ultimately went to supply those who are using illegal drugs in places like Sheboygan, in places like -- other places where you wouldn't think of having any connection with these big cartels.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Now, some in Congress want the U.S. to do even more. Last night the president didn't rule it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As I said, President Calderon has been very courageous in taking on these drug cartels. We've got to also take some steps. Even as he is doing more to deal with the drug cartels sending drugs into the United States, we need to do more to make sure that illegal guns and cash aren't flowing back to these cartels. That's part of what's financing their operations; that's part of what's arming them. That's what makes them so dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Now, Secretary Clinton is due to meet today with Mexico's president. President Obama visits with him next month. Our foreign affairs correspondent, Jill Dougherty, in Mexico City right now.
Jill, what does the secretary of state hope to accomplish?
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, she's got two things really, Kyra. Number one is that drug issue. She has to show that, as they say, they believe Felipe Calderon, the Mexican president, is doing what he should be doing but that he needs support. So that's where the plan that was announced by the Obama administration yesterday will come in to play. That's the support that the president of Mexico has been asking for, at least some of it.
The other thing she has to do is to say that the drug violence is not the only part to this relationship. She's going to be talking about trade. After all, this is a very big trading partner with the United States. She's going to be talking about education, clean energy and other issues to make the point that it goes way beyond just that violence.
PHILLIPS: OK. OK, Jill Dougherty. Sorry about that. Apparently -- is Obama arriving on Cap Hill now on or not? OK, great.
Just as we, of course, follow the Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's trip there to Mexico City, we're also waiting for President Obama to arrive on Cap Hill as he's pushing to get his budget passed. We're following both the arrival of the secretary of state, then also the arrival of Obama there on Cap Hill, tracking both for you.
Now the drug-related violence in Mexico is no surprise to Americans living in border cities. While Washington talks about it, they're living it and in some cases dying in it.
Martin Bartlett is a reporter at KVIA-TV in El Paso right across from Juarez, and he sees pretty much every day how Mexico's problem is our problem.
And Martin, you know, we've talked a lot about Juarez. Let's talk about the people there in El Paso and what they're most worried about. Is it the spillover from Juarez and all the violence and murder that has taken place there?
MARTIN BARTLETT, KVIA-TV CORRESPONDENT: The spillover, truly, has been the number one concern here along the border, you know. The big concern is that will we see this open-armed conflict on the streets of El Paso, like what we've seen just right across the border in Juarez.
Federal law enforcement officials have been telling me that we're already seeing some form of spillover. We're not seeing that armed violence in the street. What we are seeing is, for example, an increase in petty crime, things that actually go to fund the narco- trafficking and the drug industry just across the border in (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
PHILLIPS: So the violence is not as bad in El Paso as in Juarez, obviously, but people are definitely feeling the effects. Right?
BARTLETT: El Paso, absolutely one of the safest large cities in the country.
And one thing that's really fascinating about El Paso and the relationship it has to Juarez, is these are two cities and two countries, but it is one cross-border community of 3, 3 1/2, to 4 million people.
Tens of thousands of people cross the border every single day from El Paso to Juarez and Juarez to El Paso just to work. There are families that exist on both sides of the border.
So the victims of crimes oftentimes may be not residents of El Paso, but they're someone from El Paso's aunt, uncle, grandmother, grandfather. You also have plenty of El Pasoans, again, just going over to Juarez to work who are encountering this drug crime in the street. Of course, it's been such a lawless city for so long, there's been no shortage of crime scenes all across the city.
PHILLIPS: Martin, what's interesting, and I talked to the head of homeland security, Janet Napolitano, about this yesterday, is that Mexico decided to take 5,000 military troops, 1,200 federal agents and basically pile them into Juarez. And they saw a drop in the violence. And so I asked the madam secretary what about the military getting involved here in the U.S.? I mean, as you've been covering this story on a regular basis, do you agree that the military intervention did make a difference in what you were seeing in Juarez and maybe the effects it was having coming over into the U.S.?
BARTLETT: It is absolutely undeniable that military presence across the border in Mexico has made a huge difference. More than 1,600 people were murdered in Juarez last year, many of them directly related to drug violence. That stopped as soon as this increase in Mexican troops really beefed up security across the border in Juarez.
Now on the U.S. side, lots of folks in El Paso very reticent and very unwilling to see U.S. troops along the border. There is a very real -- a very real disinterest in seeing a full militarization on the U.S. side of the border.
But undeniably, that troop buildup in Juarez changed things dramatically, which is why it's so curious to many people here along the border why now this issue is getting so much attention from Washington, when nearly 2,000 people were murdered in the streets of Juarez just last year, but in the past couple of weeks, it's been a much quieter place.
PHILLIPS: Martin Bartlett, with our affiliate KVIA. Great reporting, Martin. Appreciate your time today.
BARTLETT: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: What about putting some military muscle and fire power along the long border with Mexico? Well, if it comes to that, how would it work? One of our generals helps us push this story forward in about 20 minutes.
And we're also going to look at another player in this story: American teens turned into assassins by Mexican drug cartels.
CNN's Anderson Cooper reporting from the border. Be sure to catch his "AC 360" special, "The War Next Door," live from the Mexican border. That's tonight and Thursday night at 10 Eastern right here on CNN.
Martin's good. We should remember him.
Yes, we need to remember Martin.
Oh, we're still live on television. Who's doing weather with me? Chad Myers.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Kyra, I'm over here.
PHILLIPS: Hello, there. Sorry about that pal. Thought we were going to break, but we're talking serious stuff there in Fargo, North Dakota, aren't we? It's bracing for what's likely to be the worst flooding in record history? Correct?
MYERS: Actually, it's very, very close. The record 40.1. They're forecasting 40, 40.1. And it can go up or down a little bit.
There's been a little bit of a break today, because it is so cold. Because it is so cold, Kyra -- in fact, it's almost freezing some of the water in place, but I'll tell you what: the damage is done.
Let's go right in here to the Google maps. Where the red dots are, those are all areas that have major flooding going on, and the purple dots all serious and near record flooding.
Now this is the Red River and all of the tributaries that flow into the Red River. This river, unlike most other rivers in the United States, does not go down. It goes to the north into Canada.
Let's take you to one spot. Let's take you to Fargo right here. That Fargo dot, we're still at 35 feet. The whole area kept moving on up...
PHILLIPS: Sorry. Sorry, Chad. This is live television, my friends. But that was just a quick snapshot there that we got of the president of the United States arriving at Cap Hill. You heard the reporters throwing out questions.
Of course he's there saying, look, if we want a recovery in our economic situation, you've got to buy into his budget and that's what he's there to do: pitch the lawmakers on his $3.6 trillion spending plan for 2010. It's getting a lot of pushback. We're following what's going to happen -- or we will follow what's happening there on Cap Hill.
OK, Chad. Are you still with me, pal?
MYERS: Yes, I'm still here.
PHILLIPS: OK. That's what we like to -- we handle all kinds of live events. Let's get back to some serious stuff here about the flooding.
MYERS: You know, I'm thinking maybe -- and I can remember one already, but this may be the first federal disaster area that President Obama is going to have to worry about, including Fargo, North Dakota right here, including the Red River and all of the other Red River tributaries that come in.
The river -- the river is now up to 35 feet from where the bottom of the river is all the way up to the bottom of most of the bridges here.
Let's do one more thing. I want to show you where all of these flood warnings are. Now, amazingly, I can't even count them. There's 50 there. There's at least 50 there. Probably 150 separate counties with some river out of its banks.
So the warnings continue. The snow continues. And believe it or not, these people that are trying to put these sandbags on the levees are having 4 degree wind chill factors, Kyra. So not only is it ugly, not only is the water coming up, but they have 4 degree wind chill factors to deal with outside, trying to save that river and that city.
PHILLIPS: All right. We'll keep talking. Thanks, Chad.
MYERS: Sure.
PHILLIPS: Well, straight ahead, the treatment of vets with unsterilized, potentially hazardous medical equipment has really touched a word. Now some lawmakers are calling for action.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: A job fair packed to the gills. Eager job seekers, resumes, they're all ready. Now guess which potential employer got as much love as a leopard during biblical times.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: They're fired up and calling for a full-scale investigation. Outrage is growing after thousands of vets were exposed to potentially life-threatening infections. That scare resulted from improperly sterilized equipment at not one but two veteran hospitals and a clinic. Two Florida lawmakers, Senator Bill Nelson and Congressman Kendrick Meek, are requesting an official inquiry from the V.A.'s inspector general.
Veterans are also speaking out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID WILLIAMS, VIETNAM VETERAN: My contract with the V.A., they promised me that I'd have all the health care that I needed. They would take care of me if anything happened to me in Vietnam, and something did, and they haven't done it.
WILLIE JACKSON, VIETNAM VETERAN: I'm shaky right now until I get in there and somebody tell me that everything is OK. Then I'll feel better. But right now, I'd headed to the clinic (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Well, even though the V.A. says the risk is low, thousands of veterans are being contracted -- or contacted, rather, and urged to come in and be tested. Boy, that was a slip of the tongue. Contracted.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hopefully, they didn't contract anything.
PHILLIPS: Exactly. HIV, Hepatitis C.
Medical correspondent, of course, Elizabeth Cohen, has been following up on this. We, you know, really talked heavily about this yesterday with you, with reporters covering the story, with the veterans' organizations. And it's really frustrating to see our men and women in uniform once again struggling to get good health care. COHEN: Right. Right. They show up for a test that they're supposed to get, a colonoscopy, and they might have been infected with something terrible.
Well, we put the word out, and so did lots of other people, that these vets were supposed to go in and get tested. Basically, veterans who have had colonoscopies at that Miami V.A. for approximately the past five years were said -- were told go in and get tested. And indeed, there has been a lot of action on this.
Let's take a look at these numbers. In the past couple of days, the V.A. has received more than 2,600 calls from people saying, "Hey, should I come in and get tested?" They have seen more than 350 patients, and they have another 577 exams scheduled over the next two weeks. So it's very clear that at least some people are getting the message.
But they definitely need to track down people who aren't watching television, who may not spend time on the Internet. You know, they need to find those people who came in and had colonoscopies during this big chunk of time.
PHILLIPS: And you know what? This is not the first time this has happened. This is not the only hospital where this has happened. How common is this?
COHEN: You know, one of the problems is that we can't answer that question. We don't know how common it is. It definitely has happened that medical equipment has been infected and that the hospitals then have to go and tell people to come in and get tested.
But, here's the catch. If a hospital realizes that some medical equipment was contaminated, they don't necessarily need to tell anyone. They don't necessarily need to say, "Hey, come back and get tested."
The fact that the V.A. did, one, figure out they hadn't been sterilizing equipment properly and, two, make it publicly known, a lot of experts I've talked to have really commended them for that. Obviously, this never should have happened. But the fact that they've been honest about it and put all this all call, a lot of safety experts say not every hospital would have done that. Some hospitals might have tried to conceal it.
PHILLIPS: Well, we're going to definitely stay on top of this story and continue to follow it. Elizabeth, thanks so much.
COHEN: Thanks.
PHILLIPS: And here's some more information. If you think that -- if you're a vet, actually, and you think that you may be infected, you can call the Miami V.A. health-care system. Elizabeth was talking about all of you that have already called thus far. You can actually speak with a staff member or you can actually set up an appointment for screening.
Here's the number: 305-575-7256, or toll-free, 877-575-7256. Those numbers once again: 305-575-7256 or 877-575-7256.
Now veterans, we want to hear from you. Whether you decide to get tested or not, will you send us an e-mail please and share with us your story? The address here is CNNnewsroom@CNN.com. I'd really like to talk to you and get your story out there.
Cycling star Lance Armstrong having surgery today to repair a broken collar bone. The seven-time Tour De France champion crashed Monday in the first stage of the race in northern Spain. He hit the ground so hard with his head that he broke his helmet.
Armstrong is now back home in Austin, Texas, where he's having the operation and sending messages on his Web site. He says he plans to be back on his bike in May just in time for the tour in July.
Well, meet some American teens literally making a killing in this economy. Fifty grand per job and a few hundred bucks a week just to be on call? Their employer: Mexican drug cartels. Job requirements? Good aim and no conscience.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: "Dear AIG, I quit." AIG's executive vice president, Jack DeSantis, gave notice to his boss, Ed Liddy, via "The New York Times" op-ed page. DeSantis says that most employees in his unit had nothing to do with the fiasco and that he's been working for months to make things right and feel that they've been thrown under the bus.
He writes, "None of us should be cheated of our payments any more than a plumber should be cheated after he's fixed the pipes but a careless electrician causes a fire that burns down the house."
He says that he will give his bonus to charities that help people suffering in the global downturn.
And with millions of Americans out of work in this recession, we're seeing a lot of job fairs in Santa Ana, California. One job fair attracted a lot of interest, but nearly all the job seekers stayed away from one booth in particular: the one run by AIG.
Dave Lopez with our affiliate KCAL, or KCAL, rather, was there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVE LOPEZ, KCAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They were all well- dressed, professional-looking people with one thing in common: unemployed. And one desire: to get a job.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've applied to maybe 15 jobs a day for the past six months.
LOPEZ (on camera): Nothing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing.
LOPEZ (voice-over): There was a traffic jam outside the Doubletree in Santa Ana. Inside, you can almost call it a stampede of people wanting almost anything to get out off the unemployment lines.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have banking experience from years ago. So Wells Fargo was here.
LOPEZ: Wells Fargo, the LAPD, the U.S. Border Patrol, insurance companies, AIG. AIG? They have jobs, I was told.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I can offer as many qualified candidates that I find. That's how many I can offer. The hard part is finding a qualified candidate.
LOPEZ (on camera): Really?
(voice-over) All the companies here were ready to hire, I was told. Yet there was no line at AIG, and directly across the way at Wells Fargo, it stretched around the corner.
(on camera) AIG has one person in line.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.
LOPEZ: You don't want to go over to AIG?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not at all. Reputation isn't good right now.
LOPEZ: I hear they give good -- good bonuses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In top management.
LOPEZ: I mean, here...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I can get a top management job and get everybody fired, I'll probably get a job.
LOPEZ (voice-over): One year out of work, he said, and you need gallows humor.
(on camera) I took a quick survey, and most of the people I've talked to are college grads, who have had jobs, almost all the time, never had trouble finding one, until now.
(voice-over) And yes, fighting discouragement isn't easy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never expected it to be this tough. I have six years of college plus.
LOPEZ: I'm told most of these jobs are commission only, but they're jobs.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, California has been hit especially hard in this recession. Its jobless rate, 10.5 percent, is one of the nation's highest.
Mexican drug war: cartels, killings, kidnappings, fear spilling all into the U.S. could it be the U.S. military's next mission? A general is going to help us push that story forward.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: South of the border high on the radar. We're following a diplomatic push in the drug war raging in Mexico. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is due to land soon in Mexico City in hopes of firming up a united front against the drug lords.
We learned today that one of those most wanted kingpins was picked up hours after Mexico's government offered bounties of up to $2 million. The cartels are blamed for more than 6,000 murders last year alone.
Here's more proof that Mexico's problem is a U.S. problem. Those cartels are hiring American teens to do their dirty work. Hit men who aren't even grown men are getting showered with money to kill anyone who crosses their bosses. Check out this tape from police in Laredo, Texas. A detective interviews a teen assassin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In this tape, Reta happily details how he carried out his first cartel assassination at the age of 13.
"I loved doing it, killing that first person. I loved it. I thought I was Superman," said Reta.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Wow. Ed Lavandera first brought this to our attention. He joins me live from Dallas.
You listened to that, Ed. You see him laughing. He's only 13 years old. And you think what happened? How could -- I mean, he's basically a child.
LAVENDERA: You know, the investigators who had been working these cases for the last few years in Laredo ask themselves the same questions. They're the ones that spent hours and hours. We watched much of those interrogation tapes. And they're still unable to explain how a kid comes in to this situation. And they do raise the alarm that they worry that, look, that this might have happened in Laredo, but it can happen anywhere.
PHILLIPS: And what's hard to understand, the Latin culture is so much about family. It's so much about big families and taking care of each other. And so what have cops told you -- I mean how bad does this get at a young age? And do the cops say that they can tell right away that this is someone that's like a serial killer? Or are they sometimes fooled by the youth and innocence and how ruthless they can be?
LAVENDERA: Well, look, the two guys that we profiled in this piece are unique in many ways. Because the way these cartels are set up nowadays, you just don't become part of this group and graduate to this level. There are other people who are recruited, they're lookouts, they stand on the corners, they get on the cell phones and pass along information. These, in a bizarre way, if you'll kind follow me here, you graduate to this level. You're recruited. This is like moving into the Navy Seals-type level within these cartels. They are very much set up with this hierarchy, with almost like a Fortune 500 company kind of way. There is a hierarchy to all of this and these guys were at the top level.
PHILLIPS: It's interesting. Cause you and I were talking about 20 years ago, I went to inner city schools. You have - obviously, your background is the Latin culture. It's very different now from what it was 20 years ago. I mean, these aren't just bad kids that come from bad homes and see no future and they're making quick cash. I mean, like you pointed out, there is a sophistication now about running these drugs. And part of that sophistication is figuring out how to tap into kids in the U.S., right?
LAVENDERA: Right. The reason these kids were tapped -- and many of the people who have gotten to know them over the last couple of years, they were easy targets. These are kids who live on the border. It is not uncommon for teenagers to go across the border, look for a good time. And that's where they run into the trouble. And they're easily recruited over there.
And from a cartel standpoint, it also keeps them from having a lot of problem to deal with, if you will. Here are two American kids, they're already on this side, they don't have to worry about these guys getting busted going back across the border or getting caught or anything like this. They're already on this side, they're here, they're free to move and free to do what they need to do.
PHILLIPS: Ed Lavendera, great reporting. Appreciate it.
LAVENDERA: Sure.
PHILLIPS: The head of Homeland Security is filling Congress in on the White House plan to counter those cartels. I had a chance to talk with Janet Napolitano yesterday about that problem and the possible solutions, like sending more U.S. troops to the border.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: What did Mexico do? They took 5,000 military troops, 1,200 federal police officers and just bombarded that city of Juarez. And so now they've seen a drop in these drug-related killings. It is sort of like what we saw in Iraq, you know, putting in troop surges into certain areas and you saw a drop in violence.
Would you ever consider doing something like that, getting the military involved and saying, OK, we can't take this anymore, we've got to do something drastic or it's not going to work?
JANET NAPOLITANO, U.S. SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, obviously the violence problem in Juarez was of a different quality and kind than anything we've seen in the United States. And it really did demand that kind of response by the federal government in Mexico. We have contingency plans on the United States side. And we are still evaluating a request that we do send some National Guard to some of the border areas. We're still looking at that.
But you know, that clamp-down in Mexico, in Juarez in particular, was really called for. The homicide situation there was out of control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: So, what about a military option? Retired Lieutenant General Russel Honore joins me by phone to talk about what it might take.
And just to give a little background, General, if you don't mind, you actually had a unit on the border when you were active. What did you guys do and was it effective?
LT. GEN. RUSSELL HONORE, 33RD COMMANDING GENERAL, U.S. FIRST ARMY, FT. GILLEM, GEORGIA (RET.) (via telephone): Well, yes, we supported the border and the drug enforcement folks. I worked that mission for about three years as general officer on the Joint Staff - when I was commander of Joint Force Headquarters Homeland Security.
The challenge from what the Secretary Napolitano was speaking to is if you put the National Guard, who are they going to work for? The border is a federal mission. If she mobilized National Guard and sent them into the state, then they'll be working for the governors. They've to sort out the policy of who the Guard's going to work for, what is going to be the rule of engagement.
PHILLIPS: All right, well then, talk about that. If the troops were federalized, could these soldiers take on that mission of dealing with these cartels? Dealing with these kidnappings, these murders, the weapons going back and forth? Could the men and women in the Army do that?
HONORE: They could. It's going to require some upscale training. It's going to require close coordination with law enforcement. Because, in this country, we have looked to law enforcement, from across the country, to be the first line defenders that deal with this kind of criminal activity. We will cross the line if we put federal troops or if we put the National Guard in there to do that mission. Thus (ph) is to reason for the proxy kamata dus act, which you don't cross that line unless you've lost civil control.
Can we say that Phoenix has lost civil control? Probably not. But the National Guard has been - and thank God we have the National Guard because they've been a mainstay of reinforcing the border in the last two years, going in and building fences and doing jobs that Border Patrol wasn't doing, such as doing observation posts.
But if we put them in there with a mission to fight the cartel, total different mission. They've got a lot of policy work to do in Washington before that happens. PHILLIPS: True, and dealing with proxy kamata dus, the rules of engagement, there would be major policy issues to tackle. But if it is indeed that bad and this option could work, you're saying it could work. Obviously, the Army has incredible drug interdiction teams all across the world.
So, could this be -- we saw what the Mexico military did. They filled Juarez with military troops and it brought down the violence. So, if you dealt with those policy issues, General, do you think this could be a good idea to involve the military in dealing with these drug cartels and the back and forth across the border?
HONORE: I think the most effective way for them to do is to relieve the Border Patrol from some of the mundane missions they have, but the rules of engagement have to be clear.
The other thing is to use both federal and National Guard technology to be able to see an observe those border crossings.
The other thing the Guard could do is to inspect cars going into Mexico because the Mexican government has clearly said the weapons are coming from America. So what are we going to do about it? What is going to be the federal government, what is going to be White House policy on shutting down those gun stores that are within two miles of the Mexican border selling assault rifles? That has to be fixed.
And then what is going to happen in those states where they pick some of these guys up on the street, but nobody asks them for any immigration papers because the city they're in is declared a safe haven. Many of them are the same ones that are running the guns and running the drugs into the United States.
So we have to have a clear rules of engagement. And what is the rule of engagement for the Guard? Are they going to work for the government, which means they support state law. If you work for Secretary Napolitano, then they've got to be federalized. The only way they can do - work on that border and support border security, is they're going to have to work for the Border Patrol under the Border Patrol and that would have to be federalized. You can't work for the government and patrol the border.
PHILLIPS: And it'll be interesting to see if indeed the policy does change.
General Russel Honore, good to talk to you. Thanks for the input.
HONORE: God bless America.
PHILLIPS: You've got the big, fat cats and their fat salaries and bonuses, but what about small business owners? It might surprise you what many are doing to survive the recession.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, just about all of us are outraged about the huge salaries and bonuses paid out to the titans of big business and Wall Street. But what about the owners of small businesses? What many are doing to try to survive the recession is downright admirable.
CNN's Carol Costello reports.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Kyra, whenever these small business owners hear about these big bonuses for Wall Street executives, they can't even comprehend that. They're just trying to stay afloat.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): Forget about a big fat check from Uncle Sam. Here survival means the bailout of a different kind.
For Accutech's photo machining it means owner Paul Gemellaro is cutting his pay in half from $75,000 to less than $40k. All so can he pay his employees.
PAUL GEMELLARO, CEO, ACCUTECH PHOTO MACHINING: Well there is no credit available for us. You know, the bills keep piling up and a lot of people at work here are my friends. But that makes it more difficult but you know, they're loyal to me and you know they helped me through the tough times so I have to return the loyalty.
COSTELLO: His employees are not just thankful, but willing to work even harder.
MIKE MURRAY, PRES. ACCUTECH PHOTO MACHINING: It's amazing. I don't know anybody else really who would do that, because you know, you have your own responsibilities for your own family and it's very difficult to go from making money to making nothing. COSTELLO: Gemellaro isn't alone in his generosity. According to a December study done by office supply retailer Staples, 50 percent of small business owners have cut their own salaries to avoid layoffs.
Meg Hagele...
MEG HAGELE, OWNER, HIGH POINT CAFE: Right, right, right.
COSTELLO: ... who owns High Point Cafe hasn't paid herself since December and says she's dipped into her own savings to pay her staff.
HAGELE: I take huge responsibility for the fact that I have 15 people who depend on me for their living. And that is something that I take very seriously and I think that's what's missing in large business.
COSTELLO: Experts say small business owners have little choice. They don't have much fat to trim.
JOHN CHALLENDER, CHALLENGER, GRAY AND CHRISTMAS: Small business owners really get to know each and every one of their employees. They live with them and work with them. So it's much different than a big business, where everybody is more anonymous, certainly as you get past say a particular department. HAGELE: Here you go, sweetheart.
COSTELLO: Of course, both Hagele and Gemellaro would like some government help but both say they would never accept a bailout. What do they want? For the banks to start lending again so they can make payroll and still manage to bring home a paycheck.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: And how often have you heard that? How can you get those banks to start lending money again? The Obama administration says it has a substantial plan in place but the banks still aren't lending money yet - Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Carol Costello, thanks so much.
Well, it's one of the most sought-after positions in the job market and most don't pay a dime. We're talking about internships. And now, they're no longer just for college students.
On Wall Street to tell us about that, Susan Lisovicz.
Susan, talk about a big -- taking a big bite of the humble pie. Being experienced and older and deciding, OK, I'll do anything, including take an internship.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol was talking about pay cuts. How about no pay at all for an internship?
Kyra, you know, it's not only showing humility, it's showing imagination. It's being nimble, it's being flexible. And that's what it takes to get ahead in this job market, to get any kind of job.
And you know, whether you are a college student or whether you are a mid-career, out of work executive, you still have to treat it the same way. You have to treat it as an extended job interview. You have to arrive on time. You have to ask questions. You have to show initiative. You can't be talking to your friends via e-mail or on the phone. You have to take it very seriously, because it is a very, very tight market out there.
PHILLIPS: So, Susan, let's talk about when we had internships. We did everything in this business, right? We ran prompters, we ran scripts. We poured the coffee if we needed to, whatever..
LISOVICZ: Took the take the trash out if we needed to, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Yes, exactly. Right, we did whatever we had to do. Is that what is being advised to the older generation, is to sort of have that mentality? Because that's really tough to do when, say, you're in your 50s and you've paid your dues.
LISOVICZ: You've paid your dues, but you have to remember that the marketplace is always changing. And that's what happens for a lot of executives. They might have all the right skills in terms of the ability to work on deadline, work under pressure, work well with people, have a network of associates. But maybe they need some updating. Maybe they just need to learn some tech skills a little bit more.
The fact is, you have to show that kind of persistence and imagination in going for it. And let's face it, if a company has an internship program -- and a lot of them don't these days, because it costs them money -- they are more likely to hire. And that's ultimately what you want. If you work for little money or no money, really what you're going for is the possibility of getting a job. And most internship programs will ultimately hire at least some of the interns.
PHILLIPS: That's a great point. Susan Lisovicz, thank you so much.
LISOVICZ: You're welcome.
PHILLIPS: Lots of people looking for work these days, as you know. But we're going to tell you how one man's attempt to drum up business actually landed him in jail.
But first, remember taking notes by hand in college? Not anymore. CNN's Becky Anderson explains how some medical students in London are learning on "The Edge of Discovery."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Imperial College London in real life; and this is Imperial College London in second life. An online community located in the virtual world.
These medical students are checking on patients in this online hospital's respiratory ward.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't talk to each other here in the physical world.
ANDERSON: Students roam the hospital wards as digital characters called avatars. Once inside, they act just like real doctors in a real hospital, washing their hands before seeing patients and checking x-rays.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you get all of the tests and it puts it all together nicely.
ANDERSON: This program takes medical training to another dimension, quite literally.
PROF. MARTYN PARTRIDGE, IMPERIAL COLLEGE LONDON: This sort of research is vital if we're going to make sure that tomorrow's doctors are as well trained as you and I want them to be.
ANDERSON: For now, it's not part of the official curriculum and the program isn't meant to replace face-to-face training with real patients, but it does offers an interesting diversion on the road to a medical career. JIEXIN ZHENG, MEDICAL STUDENT: I hope it's like playing a game and less like learning.
ANDERSON: Becky Anderson, CNN, London.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, you can imagine the names that people call Bernie Madoff these days. Most we can't say on TV. But some people can call America's premier swindler their ace in the hole. A construction worker in Queens saw Madoff's prison number printed in the paper. So, what did he do? He used the last three digits in a state lottery game and bingo, he won 1,500 bucks. Lottery officials actually said that about five hundred other players did the same thing. I guess great minds think alike.
And you've heard the phrase "In case of emergency, break glass." Well, one man may have taken it literally. Police in Okland, California say that glass repairman Andrew Crow (ph) was creating his own stimulus package by breaking 15 store windows and then he had the audacity to hand out business cards to the victims.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAM LASSITER, OFFICE MANAGER: Here's my card. You know, I can make you a deal, get it boarded up for you, so on and so forth. I mean, and we took him up on it because we'd never had any glass problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: The police got a break in the case after Crow's van was seen cruising by the crime scenes on store surveillance cameras.
Well, all around -- are we going straight to the president? OK.
Yes, that is the Obama-cam, folks. It took them about two seconds to get to Capitol Hill, two seconds to leave Capitol Hill. Bottom line, you know what he's doing up there at Cap Hill today, he's trying to sell his budget. We'll see how everybody responded to that. Obviously, behind closed doors.
All right, we'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: The Obama administration rolling out the big guns in the war against Mexican drug cartels and that includes Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. She just arrived in Mexico city for talks on beefing up law and order on both sides of the border.
The president also trying to sell his $3.6 trillion budget plan to Congress. Just showing up on Cap Hill a little while ago. Particularly trying to convince the democrats. The closed-door meetings that comes as House and Senate committees mark up their own plans and mark out some of the president's proposals. He just walked out of Cap Hill just a few minutes ago, by the way.
And President Obama is getting a lot of advice on getting the economy back on track. Some of it is coming from overseas.
We go first to the Middle East.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STAN GRANT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Stan Grant at Nasdara (ph) City on the outskirts of Abu Dhabi.
When this is completed, it will be the world's first zero-carbon and zero-waste city, powered by the sun and home to 50,000 residents. Now as President Obama looks at alternative energy, weaning America off oil and pumping billions of dollars into wind and solar research, he may well get some answers here. Ironically, a place that right now provides about 10 percent of the world's oil.
KYUNG LAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You are looking at what makes Japan's economy ticks, the gizmos and gadgets.
I'm Kyung Lah where the economic engine is the electronics and the cars that Japan produces. And the number one customer is the U.S. consumer. But with the credit crunch, that consumer is no longer buying and that affects everyone you see here on the street. Japan's economy is getting hammered as a result. Exports from Japan to the U.S., for the month of January, fell 53 percent. The country now posting a record trade deficit. And the GDP is shrinking by the double digits.
So, what is going to fix all this? Well, to get the U.S. economy back on track and the U.S. consumer buying those made-in-Japan products again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: And this somber note, the International Monetary Fund expects Japan's economy to shrink by nearly six percent for the 2009 calendar year. But other economists predict it could be far worse.
To India now, where many say the best banks are the ones run by the government and that's where more and more people are putting their money.
Our Sara Sidner in explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In India, the fall and the subsequent bailout of banks in the West has made big business for its nationalized banks.
MADHU PRASAD, CUSTOMER: One is (INAUDIBLE) that one's money is not safe overseas, because then you see top banks are closing down and you'll feel all your life savings is going to be washed out.
SIDER: So, Madhu Prasad says she decided to transfer her money from her international bank to one of India's state-controlled banks.
She is not alone. State bank managers say Prasad is one of thousands of customers in India who have made the switch from private- sector banks over fears about private bank stability.
In the third quarter of 2008, bank deposits at State Bank of India, for example, have jumped 36 percent from the same time last year. Economists say a portion of that increase is from people who have switched.
The bank, which is India's largest, reported a net profit increase of $120 million compared to the same quarter in 2007.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: All right, break away to Cap Hill, Harry Reid responding to the closed-door meeting with the president about the budget.
