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Red River Appears to Haver Crested; Flooding in North Dakota May Ease
Aired March 28, 2009 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It is very busy in the CNN NEWSROOM tonight.
Extreme weather all across the country. In the upper Midwest, historic flooding along the Red River, Fargo, and other communities are holding their collective breath that the levees don't give out.
And farther south, springtime in the Great Plains is buried beneath two feet of snow. At least two people have died.
And to the east now, tornadoes tear up parts of North Carolina. More twisters could be on the way.
I'm Don Lemon in the CNN NEWSROOM.
We begin in Fargo, North Dakota, now. Three million sandbags piled along the Red River, and now, fingers are crossed. And just a few hours ago, anxious people on both sides of the river got word that the water might not go much higher than it is. We certainly hope that is so. It is just shy of 41 feet right now.
A wall of sandbags, 43 feet high, is the only thing holding back all that freezing water. While everyone is hoping the worst is over, some were not so lucky.
CNN reporters and our high-tech resources are monitoring the situation minute by minute. Our Jacqui Jeras joins us now in the CNN severe weather center. Reynolds Wolf is in Moorhead, Minnesota. But let's begin with CNN's Ted Rowlands. He's joining us from Fargo, North Dakota.
Ted, what's the situation where you are?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, the good news that the folks got here today is that the river has actually gone down, but you look behind us, you can see it is still at record levels and the problem is it's going to stay at this record level for at least the next couple days -- meaning, that the dike system here is under incredible pressure to hold back the Red River for an extended period of time. If the dikes do hold, of course, it will prevent what could be a potential disaster. If they don't, there'll have to be quick evacuations, et cetera.
You mentioned the tension -- it has been relieved a bit to some extent with the news that the river dropped a bit. However, it is still very much alive here, because people who live -- and you can imagine living right along the river's edge, looking at this river at a record level, they know that if these dikes give way, they'll have to get out quickly. A lot of people have their things packed just in case and ready for that word.
The city is telling people to be vigilant. What they're doing is utilizing the military and the local folks here to patrol the dikes on an hourly basis, looking for any crack or any problems. If they do find them, of course, they'll go right to work on repairing.
But, again, the headline -- the river's going down instead of up.
LEMON: All right, Ted, good news. Thank you very much.
We turn now to meteorologist, Reynolds Wolf. He's standing on the opposite bank. He is in Moorhead, Minnesota.
What are you seeing there, Reynolds?
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: What I'm seeing right now is, I mean, just a beautiful sight. I mean, if it could be any other day, you'd have the blue skies and conditions look great. But when you get to the ground and you look at the water, well, it's obviously a frightening prospect -- those record levels we've been talking about.
Don, as you mentioned, I'm coming to you from Moorhead -- Moorhead, Minnesota. And across the center street bridge looking westward, you can see Fargo. So, you've got two cities sharing this one bridge over this single river and they're also sharing, of course, a tremendous problem of the swelling river and the water escaping the banks and just going everywhere.
Now, here in Moorhead, of course, they're battling not only -- of course, those elements, they're battling all kinds of issues, stacking up sandbags, doing all kinds of things they can to move off those floodwaters.
One story we have for you tonight is a story of one family, just north of this very spot, who's battling not only those waters, but also their city.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF (voice-over): It's a soggy Saturday drive in this north Moorhead neighborhood, where some homes are protected from the Red River and others are not.
CONNIE HANSEN, MOORHEAD, MINNESOTA RESIDENT: They don't care about us. We're -- we can -- we're the sacrificial lamb.
WOLF: The Hansens' home is on the other side of this dividing black line, a contingency dike constructed by the city in case the Red River bursts through the first line of defense.
(on camera): This is the side the city deems valuable to protect, and on this side, you're kind of left to your own.
C. HANSEN: Yes. We're at the water collection point (INAUDIBLE).
WOLF: The Hansens' home sits at 41.5 feet, and when earlier predictions yielded a crest of 43 feet, the Hansens knew they had to take action and called on the city for help, hoping to build a barrier to protect their house.
C. HANSEN: And then I said, "Well, we need -- we want to put up a dike." She said, "You can, but you have to get your own sandbags." I said, "What?" She said, "No, you're not riverfront property, so we can't give you sandbags."
WOLF: So they decided to take matters into their own hands, filling sandbags as fast as they could, some of them weighing anywhere from 30 to 70 pounds, they stacked to this wall as fast as they could, all alone. And then something amazing happened.
(voice-over): Family, close friends, and people they had never met showed up to lend a hand.
C. HANSEN: Just about a couple of times, I had to walk away, because you get very emotional. These people don't know you. My brother said, "Who are these people?" I don't know. Some of them are old neighbors.
GARY HANSEN, MOORHEAD, MINNESOTA RESIDENT: It was real heartwarming to see that and I have recognized a few faces. A lot of them are strangers. It makes you feel good. That's for damned sure.
WOLF: Though thankful for the help, the Hansens hope the city will take action in the future.
C. HANSEN: I can't thank those people enough. Not just for me, but for my whole neighborhood. That's amazing. And it made us as neighbors much stronger. And Moorhead should be ashamed of themselves for not trying to protect us, for putting us in this situation.
WOLF: The city of Moorhead says they're protecting all properties as best they can and the decision on where to place dikes is based on the recommendation of a city engineer. They also say that only a small number of homes have been lost, while most are safe.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF: And, Don, one thing to consider is that this river, the Red River, that flows northward is a relatively young river, geographically speaking, only 12,000 years old, in comparison with the Mississippi and Ohio rivers, which have been around for millions and millions of years. But as long as this river makes its way to the north, these river communities are going to have these issues, and, of course, this battle could go on for a long time to come.
Let's send it back to you at the news desk.
LEMON: Yes, Reynolds, thank you very much. We know you've been out there since early this morning, but nothing compared to what those folks are going through. And that's what we do, right? Thank you. We appreciate it.
WOLF: You bet.
LEMON: It is not rain but snow that's causing huge problems in the plains. And at least two traffic deaths are blamed on that storm.
Look at these blizzard conditions, it's in the Texas Panhandle. Don't tell people there that it's already spring, because they will not believe you. Blizzard conditions have closed highways and forced people indoor with winds blowing up to 30 miles per hour.
A state of emergency is in effect in Kansas where the southern part of the state has snowdrifts of up to six feet tall. At least nine counties have reported two feet of snow and the Kansas City/Missouri airport had to be closed temporarily for snow removal.
Well, things are bad in Oklahoma too and there's more than a foot of snow on the ground in parts of that state. Dan Bewley of our affiliate KOTV is standing by for us in Tulsa.
What's the latest there, Dan?
DAN BEWLEY, KOTV REPORTER: Yes, good evening, Don.
You know, the good news here, meteorologists are saying that the worst of this storm has made its way through this part of the state. Now northeastern Oklahoma was spared much of this storm. But I do kind of want to show you what's going on. This is kind of a main road here that leads into downtown Tulsa. You can see it is clear now.
What we are getting here is just a lot of water and a lot of slush and a lot of snow here. It's really not cold enough yet to melt and become ice. And you can look over here behind me, is another main road that kind of snakes its way around Tulsa as well. And as you can see, it is clear, the snow and slush have been pushed to one side.
You mentioned that airport in Kansas. Well, Tulsa International Airport was also -- stayed open today, but around 50 flights were closed today, both arrivals and departures. There's a lot of people sitting around at Tulsa International Airport, which is not too far from here.
But the good news in these parts is the worst of the storm has made its way through. Officials now are just worried about as the temperature drops and the ice and the snow becoming ice, they're saying that could be a big problem as well.
LEMON: All right. Dan Bewley of CNN affiliate KOTV in Tulsa, we appreciate your reporting this evening.
Let's go down south now where days of torrential rains have caused flooding along the gulf coast of Mississippi and also Alabama. The floodwaters washed out roads all along the coast; five to 10 inches of rain fell in the Biloxi area and about 100 roads across southern Mississippi were temporarily impassable. One driver involved in this accident near Mobile, Alabama, describes what happened. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it was dark, you know what I'm saying. And then it just happened, we didn't see the road; we just had run over it and then went and hit the ditch. That's about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: So really quick?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. And then we got out -- well, the car started smoking and we got out of the car. And that one truck was behind us and then after that truck was behind us, it just tried to dodge us and went into the ditch, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Boy, oh, boy. Well, people in North Carolina are cleaning up after a pair of tornadoes tore right through several counties there. Several houses were damaged and trees were uprooted. It happened late yesterday. No serious injuries were reported, but one man says his wife had a very, very close call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN KINGSBERRY, TORNADO SURVIVOR: I went to the front door and I busted it open. When I busted it open, I saw her flying in the air and it set her down in the field. And luckily, because where you see that stick sticking up, that box in front land, then she landed and then that stick landed right next to her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Boy, oh, boy, and when we say lucky to be alive, that is lucky to be alive, Jacqui Jeras. We've gone everywhere, Minnesota, North Dakota, the plains, the Carolinas, it -- what is going on?
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, we've got a lot of extreme weather out there, some of it interrelated, Don, but our top concern tonight is tornadoes. And we're starting to get reports of damage, possibly, in the Tennessee Valley. We've got tornado watches in the south Atlantic coast and then also into the Tennessee Valley. And it's this line right here that we're most concerned about, a severe weather with the threat of tornadoes from just east of Evansville, Indiana, exiting all the way down to Nashville, Tennessee.
Nashville, you are under a tornado warning right now. This is a Doppler radar-indicated tornado, but we have seen some ground truth associated in this line.
We're getting word from Henderson County sheriff's department, this is just over the Ohio River here, west of Owensboro in the town of Corydon that there was a possible tornado that touched down several times damaging homes and mobile homes and two people so far are unaccounted for. We're going to continue to track that story for you and keep you up to date and let you know if we get any more tornadoes on the ground. Backside of this storm, it's snow which continues to be the big story in the Missouri Valley. Kansas City International Airport closed for hours earlier today. It's open, but your flight very well may be canceled as the snow is still coming down.
Now, on to the floodwaters. We continue to have developing information here with an updated forecast on the next couple of days of where that river level is going to be going. We bump down a little bit, but it doesn't mean we're out of the woods, because the temperatures have cooled down enough that the runoff has slowed down. So, don't be surprised if we get a secondary crest.
Couple that with the new storm developing, Don, that's going to be coming out of the Pacific Northwest, right now, our best thinking is, that it's going to stay south of Fargo. Cross your fingers that we won't see heavy snow this go around. That's going to be Sunday night into Monday, because if so, we're expecting warmer temperatures late in the week -- which is going to melt that down and just aggravate the situation.
LEMON: We appreciate you being at the end of this, making -- putting all of this into perspective for us, because, man, it's a lot of weather going on.
JERAS: It's a lot.
LEMON: Thank you very much for that, Jacqui Jeras.
JERAS: Sure.
LEMON: Let's talk now about Michael Steele, spotlight on Michael Steele. This week, I sat down with him for an exclusive interview. He's the chairman of the RNC. I talked to him about possibly running for president, about Rush Limbaugh among other things. You'll hear from him in an exclusive conversation, just moments away.
Also, inside the Bernie Madoff empire. One college student is on to something. He is revealing some inside information about Bernie Madoff and he is fighting back. Will he recover his money?
And we want to know what's on your mind tonight, Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, iReport.com -- it's how you can get in touch with us. Sometimes, we get a lot of our stories from this because folks have some interesting things to say. Join us in our community.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK. Some of your responses are coming in and I'm taking a look at it right now. Here's what the first person says. Jeremy_moses23 says, "We're preparing in north Kentucky for possible severe thunderstorms tonight. Wind, hail, greatest threats." Well, good luck, guys.
Kimberlyloc says, "I'm stuck in my apartment in Lawrence, Kansas, because of the bitter cold ice and freezing rain. I thought it was spring." You know what? A lot of people did. As I said, good luck to you guys, stay safe. Stay in and watch the reports right here on CNN. We'll you keep updated. If you want to send us your comments if you're sitting there, you got a computer, Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, iReport.com, use your blackberry, your phone or whatever, we'll get them on the air for you.
Meantime, let's talk about the new Republican Party chairman -- you know, Michael Steele. Well, he has a lot to say in a short time that he's been the RNC chairman, but recently, he found himself on the defensive, apologizing after he criticized Rush Limbaugh. Well, this week, in an exclusive interview, Michael Steele told me there is a good reason for everything that's happened and everything he says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL STEELE, RNC CHAIRMAN: I'm very introspective about things. I don't do -- I'm a cause-and-effect kind of guy. So if I do something, there's a reason for it. Even -- it may look like a mistake, a gaffe, there is -- there's a rationale, there's a logic behind it.
LEMON: Even with the current events and news?
STEELE: Yes.
LEMON: There's a rationale behind Rush, all of that stuff?
STEELE: Yes.
LEMON: You want to share it with us?
STEELE: Sure. I want to see what the landscape looks like. I want to see who yells the loudest. I want to know who says they're with me but really isn't.
LEMON: How does that help you?
STEELE: It helps me understand my position on the chess board. It helps me understand, you know, where the enemy camp is and where those who are inside the tent are.
LEMON: It's all strategic then?
STEELE: It's all strategic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Strategy, he says; and among a lot of other things he said that might catch your ear, might raise your eyebrows. You know, a lot has been made about diversity and the Republican Party and some say that's why Michael Steele was chosen. So, I asked him the question that most people wanted to ask.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Do you think that you'd be in this position if you were white?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Would he have that job if he was white? His answer -- just ahead.
Also, we're going to have this for you. As we're looking at the apartment of Bernie Madoff right next to me, we're going to go inside of his empire. Would you believe that while he was scamming billions from his investors, he was also vacuuming his own floors? One young man says he is going to get his money back. He is mounting a legal suit against Madoff and his relatives.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We've been talking a lot about Bernie Madoff, all of us in the news. It was so shocking when we learned about what had happened. It was a steep fall for Bernie Madoff.
Now that the former Wall Street titan is sitting in jail for defrauding investors in a big, big way, former employees are starting to talk about him and how he ran his company and his personal life as well.
Here's CNN's national correspondent, Gary Tuchman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We know what he did, but we still don't know very much about Bernie Madoff. But now, two former employees are speaking out about the strange life inside his house of cards. For starters, the king of cons is reported to have been fixated on the color black.
In an online article by Pulitzer Prize winner Lucinda Franks, a computer programmer who spent four years at the firm said of the place, "Everything had to be black. The computers, the tables, even the picture frames. If he saw a kid's picture in a silver frame, for instance, he would order the offender to get a black frame." And it better be spotless.
It seems the Wall Street money man also may have been a serious cleanliness freak. William Nasi, who is a longtime messenger for Madoff, told the "Wall Street Journal," "I would open the office at 7:30 a.m. and sometimes I would see Bernie in there vacuuming the floors, personally. Everything had to be clean, even if he had to do it himself."
Clean, but with an exception. On the 17th floor, the core of his criminal enterprise, where he kept his own office, clean didn't always mean orderly.
LUCINDA FRANKS, CONTRIBUTOR, DAILYBEAST.COM: It was messy. Papers were strewn all around. It was antithetical to what Bernie demanded. TUCHMAN: As for salaries, Madoff made sure his employees were extremely well-taken care of. Lucinda Franks says her source claimed nobody made less than six figures.
FRANKS: A secretary could make $500,000 a year, a manager, almost a million. It was completely bizarre.
TUCHMAN: Bizarre, but the big pay days kept folks happy. No wonder, the unofficial motto for the company was reportedly, "It's good to work for Bernie."
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right. Let's go even further inside of this scandal and talk to someone who is, you could say, a family member, was ripped off by Bernie Madoff. There's no other way of putting it. Bernie Madoff's brother, Peter, well, he is facing scrutiny, too -- other family members as well.
But Peter Madoff was the trustee of a $480,000 inheritance that was supposed to go to a 22-year-old law student. That law student's name is Andrew Ross Samuels. Now, Samuels is now suing Peter Madoff for investing that inheritance in his brother's company.
Andrew Samuels' father now joins us. His name is Howard Samuels. He's in New York. He's going to talk to us about that lawsuit.
Whose idea was this to come out -- was it your son or was it you, you guys brainstormed about suing Peter Madoff for this?
HOWARD SAMUELS, SON IS SUING PETER MADOFF: My son and I brainstormed. He happens to be a first-year law student at Brooklyn Law School. He happens to be studying trust and estates and fiduciary duties.
He and I talked about it. But our attorney, Steve Schlesinger, who's handling the entire matter, really thought it was an interesting concept to differentiate the loss that my son suffered because of a breach of fiduciary duty rather than the loss that the rest of us all have suffered at the hands of Bernie Madoff.
LEMON: Because everyone is lumping one big thing into Bernie Madoff. So you're saying, well, Bernie Madoff may have been at the top, but the person who was in charge of my son's money, funds, trust account was Peter Madoff. He was the executor and the trustee.
So, you're going after him, which probably gives other people ideas about the same thing, going after people who were trustees of their money in Bernie Madoff's company.
SAMUELS: Well, if those people have such fiduciary duty partners, who invested their money, they should very -- they should definitely follow the path my son has laid out here. LEMON: And just to let people know how much, I mean, this is -- it's a lot of money, $478,000. That was the original contribution, right? And then it was -- I guess he had invested it, and at least on paper, there was more money there.
Now, you're also saying that Peter Madoff never told your son that once he turned a certain age that he could get $500,000 of that money. There were other things in here that he didn't do as well along the way you weren't made aware of.
SAMUELS: Well, first of all, it's not more than $500,000, it's $473,000 in total. Peter never advised my son, 60 days before his 21st birthday, that he was permitted to terminate the trust and withdraw the funds. He never advised my son of that fact.
LEMON: OK. Now, here, but it's $473,000. My information says $478,000. So -- but $473,000.
SAMUELS: Well, then you're right. I don't have the numbers in front of me.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: OK. I mean, you know, I just want to make sure we get it correct, since it is our -- you know, we want to be on the record here and get it correctly.
Do you -- what are your chances? Have you spoken to legal minds about the chances of you recovering this money?
SAMUELS: Well, my attorney, as I mentioned, Steve Schlesinger, who I think is one of the best legal minds I've encountered in my search for representation on this case, would not have commenced this action if he didn't believe we had a good chance of prevailing. And I agree with him. I think Peter is in a difficult situation right now and he ought to be in a difficult situation. He didn't watch my son's money.
LEMON: We appreciate you coming on and it's very well said. I don't need to say anything else.
Howard Samuels, good luck to you and Andrew as well. Let us know what happens, OK?
SAMUELS: We certainly will, and thanks for having me on.
LEMON: Appreciate it.
Well, you almost need a road map to keep up with the extreme weather that's happening today, really, that's been happening since earlier in the week -- from the flooding along the Red River, to heavy snow in the plains, and the severe storms in the southeast. Our meteorologist, Jacqui Jeras, is keeping an eye on all of that stuff for you. We could say hot, but really, some of the cold spots, as well as our journalists who are out in the field as well. Also, the spotlight now on RNC Chairman Michael Steele. This week, I talked with him about Rush Limbaugh, his political aspirations, and whether he was on the wrong side of history. Well, that answer -- that question I should say, struck a nerve. My exclusive conversation -- straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: I'm Don Lemon, checking your top stories for you.
The Red River appears to have crested, reducing the flood threat for people in Minnesota and North Dakota. Now, the long wait to see if the levees will hold. Fingers crossed.
People in North Carolina are cleaning up after a pair of tornadoes tore through several counties there. No one was seriously injured, but one man watched his wife being pulled away.
And in Oklahoma, there's more than a foot of snow on the ground. The governor has declared a state of emergency in 50 counties. Standing by with the big picture on all of this is CNN's meteorologist, Jacqui Jeras. Jacqui, I don't know, I guess we see it every year, but it's amazing to see this much bad weather happening in so many places.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. It's a lot at one time to handle, certainly, Don. And our immediate threat right now, our new developments with the severe weather and threat of tornadoes, a new tornado watch has been issued east of our initial one here across parts of Tennessee into Kentucky and also into southeastern parts of Indiana. So conditions remain favorable for tornadoes to develop. We've had a lot of reports of funnel clouds across parts of western Kentucky, some damage in Corydon, Kentucky, of a possible tornado damaging homes.
A couple people missing there. A tornado warning just east of Owensboro. And then we've got one for you down here in Bowling Green at this time. They're Doppler-radar indicated tornadoes, but we could see a touchdown at any time. You need to take this situation very seriously tonight. And as the sun is getting down, things are getting dark and you're not going to be able to see anything.
All right. The latest now on the flood situation. We have an update on the latest crest and forecast. And we did have a crest earlier today. That said, it doesn't mean that river can't go back up, because the cold temperatures have kind of slowed that runoff process, not to mention a number of other factors coming into play, like a new storm system which is going to be developing, bringing some snow into parts of North Dakota late Sunday and into Monday and then temperatures will be warming up down the line, which means anything that falls is just going to melt right back off.
So the situation, while things look optimistic, Don, that we've already reached that high level and that the levee was not overtopped in Fargo, we need that levee to hold for days to come, because that pressure is still going to stay there. Just because, you know, we didn't hit a higher level up to 43 feet doesn't mean that this is over and done with.
LEMON: All right. Jacqui Jeras, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Jacqui is very busy today. Keeping on top of the weather situation.
OK. So take a look at this. We got a lot of people talking this week when I sat down with Michael Steele. He is the Republican National Committee chairman. I sat down with in an exclusive conversation. It was quite a conversation. We talked about his appointment, about why he got appointed, the circumstances surrounding that. We talked about Rush Limbaugh. We also talked about President Obama. We also talked about him possibly running for president.
But when I asked Michael Steele, which a lot of people say to me, if he thought that he secured his party's nomination to be the chair if he were white, and here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL STEELE, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Yes. If my qualifications and my capabilities and my ideas were the same and the only thing that was different was my skin color -
LEMON: Yes.
STEELE: Why wouldn't I be?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Let's bring in now on the Republican National Committee chair, Jim Greer, I should say for the state of Florida, and Sirius XM radio host, Michelangelo Signorelli. Thank you both for joining us. Michelangelo, I got an e-mail from you because you saw that run on "The Situation Room" and you said your listeners were just floored when they saw it. They started calling into you. What were they saying about this interview?
MICHAELANGELO SIGNORELLI, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: Well, if he thought that saying that the whole Rush Limbaugh controversy was some sort of master plan, we were all thinking, what was the master plan? To destroy the republican party? To bring it down completely? Because all he did was show all the divisions in the party. All he did was show that no matter that he, as somebody who has talked about bringing change to the party is leading the party, the people in control are a thuggish and very angry group of extremists, who are letting him know, they're not going to let it happen.
LEMON: I think Jim Greer might disagree with that. Do you, Jim?
JIM GREER, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN PARTY OF FLORIDA: Yes, I don't think we have thugs running the party, but I will tell you the republican party is going through a cleansing process and a re- evaluation which we need to be doing and -
LEMON: And you know, Michael Steele agreed with that, but he said, he said to me, don't ask me to change my values and my morals. I said, maybe you need to lighten up on certain things, or at least rethink them if you're going to bring people into the party. But he said, why would you come to my house and tell me what kind of dinner to be served. Well if you're trying to invite someone in, isn't there some degree of compromise in any relationship?
GREER: Well, we have to be an inclusive party and every person that has an idea has to have a seat at the table. But you know, we're talking about who speaks for the party. You know, things that are really not important right now. The republican party has to reengage the middle class in this country. We have to be focused on the issues that voters across this country are talking about. Michael Steele is a breath of fresh air.
LEMON: OK. I want you to hold that thought. Because let's talk - because some people say that he may be in trouble here. But since we're talking about this and the republican party being inclusive, I want to - I asked him about that, about dropping the ball. As a matter of fact, he brought it up. He said, after the convention, he wasn't happy with the republican party because he said that they dropped the ball. Take a listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Dropped the ball. The bottom line on dropping the ball, what do you think the republican party dropped the ball?
STEELE: There was no follow-up on their leadership. There was no way to inculcate down to the grassroots that I want you to be involved in what we're doing. Oh, by the way, we've got a national convention coming up. Would you run for delegate or alternate as a delegate to the convention. That little bit of conversation, that little bit of reach out to folks would go a long way, make a big difference. And that just wasn't done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Here's what he said after that. He said, you know, there were lots of people that they didn't reach out to and didn't take advantage of it. Condoleezza rice, that the Bush folks had put into place, Condoleezza Rice, Colin Powell, not just at the top, but people who were working inside of the republican party. Alfonzo Jackson, marginal responsibility, he said, large swaths of federal government people and the republican party didn't follow through, Jim.
GREER: Well, I mean, we lost the election. The republican party has to re-evaluate itself. We've got a lot of voices in the party. At the end of the day, I think all those voices are going to come into a consensus and we're going to be a stronger party. But if the republican party continues to focus on issues that are not important to the American voter and talks about issues that are not important, then we're not going to prevail in elections.
LEMON: Like what? What issues do you say that are not important to the American public?
GREER: Well, I think we need to be talking about the economy. We need to be talking about the dinner table discussions that Americans across this country are talking about.
LEMON: And republicans are not talking about that? The people at the top?
GREER: Well, we're starting again. We realized after the loss last year and under the leadership of Michael Steele, who is doing things differently, just like in Florida, under Governor Charlie Crist's leadership, we do things successfully down in Florida, and we are successful when you let everybody who has a stake on the issue have a seat at the table and when you are inclusive and you are focused on voter's want you to focus on versus issues that are not their priority.
LEMON: OK. You know, I asked him and I want you to comment on this after Michael. I asked him if he had - he said he's been trying to reach out to the president for years, President Barack Obama, that there is no professional jealousy when it comes - he said there was a Michael Steele before there was a Barack Obama. So he says he's tried to speak to the president and I asked him about it. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEELE: Look, I like the president, personally, even though I think he's got a little thing about me. I haven't quite figured out what that is.
LEMON: You haven't spoken to him, have you?
STEELE: No.
LEMON: And you've reached out?
STEELE: Several times and I'm done.
LEMON: So there's no bipartisanism going on?
STEELE: No. Not that I'm aware of.
LEMON: Is there any professional jealousy?
STEELE: Not on my part. What would I be jealous of?
LEMON: He's the president of the United States.
STEELE: I'm the chairman of the RNC. So, what's your point? We both have leadership responsibilities and roles. I'm not equating the two. My point is you're on your track, I'm on my track. You do your thing, I do my thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I asked him if Dr. King would be proud of him, would think that he realized the dream. And he said, yes, I think, absolutely he would. Look, we have two black men or African-American men at the pinnacle of political power in this country. He said one was Barack Obama, the other was Michael Steele. Michael? SIGNORELLI: Well, first off, when he was talking about how the republican party did not reach out during the convention, he's absolutely right about that. They're usually better about creating at least some window dressing at the convention. Putting some people of color, putting more faces up there. Of course, that doesn't represent the party in general. They didn't even do that this time around. And it's great. I think he's absolutely right.
It's great that he's criticizing them, but once again for saying that he will now come under attack and will probably grovel back to these people who are criticizing him. He is a figurehead. And I think Dr. King would certainly see that it was wonderful we have a president who is African-American and even seeing that the republican party has to create window dressing by having an African-American heading their party, but Dr. King would also see that we have a long way to go in the republican party.
GREER: Well, you know, here's the thing. If we can celebrate, if the nation can celebrate the election of the first African-American as president of the United States, the republican party should be able to celebrate the election of an African-American as our first national party chairman.
LEMON: OK. Jim, hang on one second. Hang on one second.
SIGNORELLI: But address the issues that affect African- Americans. Why don't they vote for you? Because the issues are something the republican party just does not reach out on. They don't care.
LEMON: Hang on one second, gentlemen. I'm going to let you respond. Jim, I'll let you get the last word. I'm not meaning to cut you off. I want to get this stuff in because I want you guys - I also talked to him about - you know, this is an historic election. You know, having the first African-American president be elected here in the United States. And I asked him, I said, you know, are we on the wrong side of history? How do you feel? That's what African- Americans say. You're on the wrong side of history. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEELE: Oh, because I'm black and to be on the right side of history, like there's a wrong and a right side to history, I had to support the president. Oh, I see. Is that how that works? So where was all the support for me when I was running for lieutenant governor of Maryland? Where was all the support for me when I was running for the U.S. senate as potentially the first black senator from Maryland?
I didn't see a whole lot of, you know, being on the right side or the wrong side of history there. So if I looked at it in that context, I would be stunted in my abilities to do anything. I would become frustrated, angry to the point where I would just give up and go away. And that's just not how I do things. So this isn't about being on the right side or the wrong side of anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, you know, Jim, maybe - let's just say that Michael Steele is a forward thinker and is beyond thinking, beyond his party. Let's just say that. That he is the future. If by not saying - by saying no that maybe we shouldn't change our stance on things, or as you said, the republican party is not talking about things that are relevant to the American people, is it like the party of Rip Van Winkle. Is there like a wake-up call, like, hey, guys, this is what's important now and you're not doing it. Maybe Michael Steele is right.
GREER: Listen, the republican party needs to maintain its values and principles that it's always had, less government, less taxes. But it has to be the republican party of the 21st century. We have to be focusing on the issues that are important to African-Americans and Hispanics. It can't be window dressing.
You know, we have to walk the walk, and I believe that. But we are doing that. But let us not forget, African-Americans and Hispanics are Americans too. The same challenges that Americans across this country face, African-Americans and Hispanics face those same challenges.
SIGNORELLI: That is true, but as long as the republican party, as under George Bush, maintains a very extreme view on affirmative action --
GREER: OK but we don't have George Bush anymore. George Bush is not in the White House anymore.
SIGNORELLI: - against the assault weapons then. The republican party, come on, is captive to the -
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hang on, one at a time, please.
SIGNORELLI: We have seen African-Americans disenfranchised because of republican officials. When they try and go and vote. All of these issues. That's not window dressing.
GREER: We can't talk about the future - we can't talk about the future if we're we're constantly going to revisit the past. I agree. Maybe we did some things wrong in the past. But we have a new national chairman in Michael Steele. We have governors such as Charlie Crist that are the future of the republican party. A new breath of fresh air. There are some that want to continue to breathe the same old stale air. But the future of the republican party is one in which I believe -
LEMON: Hang on, Michael.
GREER: -- that we will have great successes in the future, new energy, a new look to how we do things while maintaining our principles and values. And if we do that, if we're focused on the issues that the middle class of America is focused on, that families are focused on, it's not window dressing. We mean what we say. The republican party will win Congress back and ultimately the White House.
LEMON: And Michael Steele says that the best way for African- Americans or any minority group, really, to leverage their vote and their political power is to give the GOP a second look.
GREER: Yes, there's no doubt about that.
LEMON: OK. But hang on. Because we've got to go. I want to get your yes or no, if you can.
GREER: Sure.
LEMON: Is Michael Steele in trouble here, Jim?
GREER: No, not at all. Michael Steele is not in trouble. He's going to be a great national party chairman. There were some that were asking for change, they were asking for a new approach in leadership. They're getting it. They're getting for what they asked, which is Michael Steele leading the party into the future. He's going to be a great chairman and I know he's going to continue to have the support of republicans across this nation.
LEMON: OK. I've got to run. But I want to ask you, what do you think Michael, of Michael Steele and Sarah Palin 2012? That's what I've been hearing could happen?
SIGNORELLI: Oh, I just think that is trying to bring two people who are just in completely different orbits. And if we're going to have change, as Mr. Greer said, Sarah Palin is not going to be on the ticket. I think everything Mr. Greer said was great, but if they grovel back to Rush Limbaugh and this other crowd, we're not having change.
LEMON: Can you see that 2012, Mr. Greer, Sarah Palin and Michael Steele?
GREER: No, I can see a lot of people potentially in 2012 or 2016. Michael Steele could be one of them. Charlie Crist, governor of Florida could be one of them. Sarah Palin could be one of them. We're going to have many opportunities for the voters to look at the future of the party, the past of the party, and where we as a national political party need to go. And I think it's got to be someone who is progressive, someone who looks to the future.
LEMON: All right. We've got to run.
GREER: Someone who's inclusive.
LEMON: We got to run, Jim. Thank you, Jim Greer, the chair of Florida republican national committee, and outspoken host, Michelangelo Signorelli. Thank you both very much.
GREER: Thank you.
SIGNORELLI: Great being here. LEMON: And you can see much, much more of my exclusive conversation with Michael Steele tomorrow in our African-American Firsts Series, "Up from a Past," it's right here on CNN tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
For every dollar of wealth belonging to white Americans, African- Americans can only claim a dime. The reason will surprise you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. We're having some interesting conversations here on CNN today. We just talked about Michael Steele and his conversation. Now we want to talk about African-Americans, why they continue to trail whites in all categories, all major categories. And that is according to the annual state of black America put out by the National Urban League.
Blacks are twice as likely to be unemployed, three times as likely to live in poverty, and more than six times as likely to be incarcerated. Six times more likely to be incarcerated. There he is, Leonard Pitts Jr. I always call you Leonard Pitts or just Mr. Pitts. He's a Pulitzer-prize winning columnist with the "Miami Herald." He joins us now with his insight with the Urban League report and then we're going to talk to him a little bit later about the possible death of newspapers. Or newspapers are they the next to be bailed out.
I read you column this week , it was very interesting. Let's talk about this. You said that you wanted to weigh in on that conversation that I had earlier with those two gentleman regarding the republican party. What did you want to say?
LEONARD PITTS, JR. "MIAMI HERALD": Well I heard the official from the republican party say that you can't rely on the past. You know that perhaps the GOP made some mistakes in the past, but you know, we have to be forward thinking, which is fair enough and true enough. But the thing is that the past is a template for the future. The past is a way of predicting the future. That's what the stock market investment is based on.
That's what your credit report is based on. So you can't just dismiss that past. At some point you need to come around and, if you're looking for my vote, resolve that past with the present that you're hoping to create and tell me as an African-American or Hispanic voters specifically what you are going to do differently that is going to impact upon my community.
LEMON: Let's talk about how that plays into the state of black America when we talked about all these numbers. Twice, three times, six times, or whatever, as likely to be in bad places rather than good places than other people. What's going on here?
PITTS: What's going on here is the same thing that's been going on for a lot of years, is the fact that, you know, by most major statistical quality of life measures, African-Americans are lagging white Americans. We find, you know, some improvement in some places, some back sliding in other places but we never find parity. LEMON: What is the solution? I mean, we've known about, you know, African-Americans and you know being behind, not a level playing field, all of that. But what is the solution here?
PITTS: There is no one solution because you're dealing with a bunch of different quality of life indicators for the criminal justice system or as I call it the criminal injustice system, for instance, which happens to be my personal bug-a-boo. There's a variety of things that need to be done.
There needs to be some sort of training and oversight of our police and of our court system. So that when African-Americans enter that system they are not - I think it's six times more likely to wind up incarcerated for the same person with the same background doing the same crime as a white defendant.
LEMON: And you know what, the attorney general spoke a little bit about this week when he said he's going to overhaul the justice department and one thing is revitalizing the civil rights division of that department.
We want to move on because we want to talk to you about some other things. I found your column very fascinating this week. You know, is this the end of newspapers? Are newspapers going to be the next to be bailed out? They're folding left and right. And the survivors are in deep, deep trouble.
Do you care? Drop us a line at twitter and Facebook and Leonard Pitts Jr. and I will answer them for you, after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK. In case you haven't noticed take a look at all the newspapers that have gone away. We're going to continue our conversation now with Leonard Pitts Jr. The "Rocky Mountain News" stopped its presses February. "Seattle Post Intelligencer" gone and other newspapers. You know, the "Miami Herald" is who Leonard Pitts works for. Look at all these newspapers throughout the country. You see there, the Plain Dealer." All of these newspapers who are in trouble. We've been hearing that "The New York Times" is really in major trouble as well.
Mr. Pitts, I've been hearing maybe in trouble beyond the headlines. Is there any truth to that?
PITTS: I don't know what you mean by in trouble beyond the headlines.
LEMON: Beyond what you read about in the headlines. That behind the scenes that maybe at the "New York Times" there may be in more trouble than what we're hearing about is what I mean.
PITTS: Egads, I hope not. I know that they just announced some staff cutbacks as I recall. And I hope there's not more than that because we can't take - you know, as an industry we can't take much more than what we've already seen. LEMON: And you said in your column in "The Miami Herald," I think it was March 21st, you said crooks won't cry if newspapers die.
PITTS: Right.
LEMON: And you gave a very good argument about why newspapers should stick around.
PITTS: Well, the point that I made - I don't think people realized that newspapers served a unique function in terms of the electorate. I think they think that if don't get their news from the newspaper, they'll be able to get the same thing from CNN or the local newspaper. And with all due response to, respect to CNN and the local news station, that's not true because they don't serve the same function. CNN has sort of a national purview. The cable network stations have a national purview. The local news stations basically are covering crime, weather and sports.
The only entity that is covering - that is playing the watchdog function of watching your money and watching how your institutions are managed and watching for corruption at the state and local level is the newspaper. That's the only person doing it.
LEMON: The reporters are down in the dirt and that their local because that's their town and even the internet. The internet takes things from national news organizations, local news organizations and most of the time these bloggers or what have you, they synthesize it.
PITTS: They synthesize what comes from the papers. Exactly.
LEMON: That's going to have to be it. Leonard Pitts, Jr. Hey, we appreciate it. Thank you very much. Wish we had more time. But a lot of news to cover here today especially with the weather.
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We're glad you could join us here tonight at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. It's getting close to the top of the hour. And I'm Don Lemon. That's all I have to say. I'll see you back here at 11:00 p.m. Eastern.
CNN's "Money Summit" begins right now.
