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President Obama Meets With World Leaders; Crashing the G20
Aired April 01, 2009 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Broken heads and broken windows. Protesters surge on police as they try to hold them back. They come from all over the world, and say they're fed up, most of all with bankers. And they take it out on the Royal Bank of Scotland, all this, while the president tries to cut deals with the Russians, the Chinese. You will hear from them.
What do riot control experts say about how police are controlling these crowds?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm just keeping my eye on what is going on here.
SANCHEZ: You will hear from CNN correspondents on the street, at the palace, newsmakers here and there. And we will hear from you, as your national conversation begins right now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.
What an introduction to the world stage for the president of the United States on a day when the world wants to both hate us and somehow lead them out of this economic mess. Here's what you need to know right now. The president and the first lady arrived moments ago at 10 Downing Street. You're looking at the picture.
This is the residence of the guests, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown. But the story so far, rage on the streets of London. Take a look at this, directed at British banks, at America, at unwanted wars. Hard-core demonstrators have been targeting the Bank of Scotland, breaking windows, and climbing through.
A separate group has targeted the Bank of England and clashed with police. There are several dozen arrests so far. More demonstrations, we understand, are still planned. We're going to be explaining to you what police are doing to try to control this, or in some cases perhaps what they should be doing.
Meantime, what may be the most important news development of the day. Today, Mr. Obama debuted on the world stage with several high- powered meetings, his first face-to-face with Russia's president, Dmitry Medvedev. I'm going to talk to you about a missile treaty the two men are negotiating. And then smiles all around, but signs of possible friction between our president, President Obama, and the leader of China, President Hu, problems with human rights and sniping about each other's currencies.
So, we have got crucial decisions, a brand-new era in human relations, with Obama insisting on respect and cooperation. And then there's the streets of London. It has been incredible to watch.
CNN's Phil Black is there in London. Phil, we have been looking at this constant scuffle. Roger, put some of those up, if you would, for us.
Let's show some of the pictures that we have been looking at throughout the course of the day, all of this unfolding in London while many of you were at work.
Phil, how close did this come to getting out of control?
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Rick, it's been a long, hard day of protests here.
I'm outside the Bank of England, where crowds started gathering here some nine hours ago. And they have been penned in by police quite effectively through the course of the day. And the crowds got pretty angry and frustrated through that and tried to challenge those police lines at various times, attacked some of the surrounding buildings and so forth.
But, really, as the day moved on, it was just the fact that they were not allowed to leave that really aggravated the protesters here. As I say, it's been eight, nine hours now, no food, facilities, water, that sort of thing.
They have been trying to desperately challenge those police lines and get out. And the police have held fast, holding them there, because they believe that some of these protesters are simply too aggressive to allow them to take to the streets more broadly.
And they fear that they could cause more damage and could (AUDIO GAP) to police further on. But only just now are police starting to allow this crowd to disperse very slowly, escorting small numbers of them out. But it was pretty tense there for awhile -- Rick.
BROWN: Hey, Phil, hang on to that. We're going to keep some of these pictures up.
I want to introduce my next guest now as we continue to watch the protests that have been occurring throughout the day.
I want to bring probably as appropriate a guest to have on this occasion, a man who's dealt with this type of thing firsthand. Zbigniew Brzezinski was the United States national security adviser during the Carter administration. He joins me now.
Zbigniew, thanks for being with us, sir. Did we just lose him? I hear that dial tone, and it worries me. We did. All right. We will try and get him right back.
In the meantime, let's go back to Phil, if we still have him, as we continue to look at these pictures. I wanted to get from the former official exactly what it is that the people who are meeting in these buildings sense when they know that these protests are going on inside.
These are some of the pictures that we were watching as we have been getting ready to prepare this newscast. And you can see time and time again, as some of the protesters start to scuffle with police. This is the scene that we're -- have been getting for you.
Have we got him back? We do, Zbigniew Brzezinski joining us once again.
Look, as we look at these pictures, I can't help but wonder if when you were there, or if you can explain to us whether these officials, the president of the United States and these other world leaders, are they conscious, are they aware of what's going on in the streets? And does it affect them in any way?
ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I'm sure they're aware of what is going on. I'm not sure it really affects them.
But I think it is a signal to all of us, including them, that the economic, financial crisis, if not brought under constructive control, we could have a repetition of this in many other parts of the world, including in the United States.
Now, there is a potential rage, public rage in the United States at the unfairness and inequality that is involved in the financial crisis, in the financial scandal.
SANCHEZ: Are the people in Europe more apt to behave this way than the people of the United States? I have heard say today several times that the Europeans, well, this is just what they do. When they're angry, they take to the streets. And these officials tend to be used to it. Is that a fair...
(CROSSTALK)
BRZEZINSKI: No, no, no, that's a vast overstatement. It may be true of some European countries, perhaps somewhat more of, let's say, Italy...
SANCHEZ: France?
BRZEZINSKI: ... in -- a little bit more in Germany. But, look, Scandinavia, Great Britain, by and large, these are extremely stable and solid societies. Maybe a little more like France, there's more of an (INAUDIBLE) to have a riot in France.
But it all depends on the scale of the crisis. SANCHEZ: You said that we could see scenes like this in the United States if somehow we don't deal with this accordingly.
Do you think the president of the United States in his present plans is dealing with it appropriately?
BRZEZINSKI: Yes, I think he is on the whole.
You know, one can quibble with this or that. But I think the stimulus package and the financial reform is what is needed. What else is needed, I think, is a little bit of a more generous, constructive, positive response from all of those who have enriched themselves over the last 10 years.
And, you know, the amount of money that went into private pockets on a huge scale, into private pockets on a huge scale through bonuses and all of that in the last eight or so years is on the scale of about $300 billion.
SANCHEZ: Wow.
BRZEZINSKI: And that's just to a few thousand people.
I would like to see some of them step forward and organize a national solidarity fund that acts as an emergency source of support for those who are hurt the most by the current economic crisis.
SANCHEZ: We are talking to Zbigniew Brzezinski, as you're looking at some of the pictures of the some of the protests that we have been following throughout the day.
It behooves me to ask you the following question, given your experience. President Obama met today with his Russian counterpart, Dmitry Medvedev. What they're essentially trying to do is reboot their relations, it seems.
As a matter of fact, let's pick up the president speaking here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My hope is that, given the constructive conversations that we've had today, the joint statements that we will be issuing, both on reductions of nuclear arsenals, as well as a range of other areas of interest, that what we're seeing today is the beginning of new progress in the U.S.- Russian relations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: By the way, you were involved in SALT II. Tell Americans why nuclear missile cuts are important.
BRZEZINSKI: I think it's essential, because, first of all, if we can reduce the arsenals on a stable, but equal basis, we reduce the possibility of conflict and we reduce the pressures on other countries to proliferate their own weapons. In fact, I think, in the longer run, it would be a very good thing if America and Russia committed themselves to the goal of an eventual, some time in the future, zero nuclear option.
So, I think it's good that they're doing what they're doing, and I think it is good they're emphasizing that there's going to be a renewal of the relationship, though I think it's a little bit amusing that Medvedev, as well as Obama, both said that they're trying to correct the drift, the negative drift, in American-Russian relations.
Well, as far as the United States is concerned, that drift occurred under Bush. As far as Russia is concerned, that drift occurred under Putin. Well, Putin is still Medvedev's prime minister, and, presumably, the strongman in Russia. So, I think it's kind of amusing that Medvedev, in effect, indirectly maybe unintentionally, is slamming his colleague.
SANCHEZ: Medvedev, that's interesting the way you pronounce his name. I'm certainly going to try and commit that to memory.
By the way, I can't let you go without asking you about China as well. Talk about some friction between some countries. The president today met with President Hu of China. Now the Chinese are concerned about the U.S. economy. They probably should be, since I guess we owe them billions of dollars.
What is the tack that you would recommend the president of the United States needs to take with this guy?
BRZEZINSKI: I would recommend exactly what I recommended in a major speech in Beijing in January, when I said that the time now is right for an American/Chinese G-2, that is to say, a summit type relationship between America and China, which is not just confined to economics, but also to strategic issues.
And I am very pleased that that is the outcome of this meeting. The president of America and the president of China pledge themselves to a strategic, as well as economic dialogue, at the highest level, in effect a kind of G-2. And in some ways that's even a more important development than the one involving America and Russia.
SANCHEZ: Somehow, I get the feeling they heard you.
Zbigniew Brzezinski, the perfect guest to talk about these topics, my thanks to you, sir, for making yourself available to us.
BRZEZINSKI: Good to talk to you.
SANCHEZ: Likewise.
This is the main gist, the main story, the main focus. How much worse could these protests get, and is it affecting the summit?
The president kicks off his first overseas joint news conference with a message to you, a message to all Americans. You're going to hear it. And you're also going to hear from an expert on police field force maneuvers, the tactic of riot and crowd control. He's one of America's best-known police chiefs. Chief Timoney in Miami was also in Philadelphia. He can take us through this video and tell us what may be done right or wrong. Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. A lot of you are commenting on what we're seeing again today in the streets of London, where really some unbelievable occurrences have been taking place, certainly shocking for many of us from this vantage point to see the clash between police and some of the protesters there.
As we watch this, rather than look at it, or I guess if you could replace me with a shot of the MySpace screen, Rog, let's go there. "Does violence during protests really solve anything?" is the question that we're being asked.
Also, it says over here -- let's go over to the Twitter board -- "I think that people have the right to protest. There's only but so much a person can take before you break one's spirit."
Not sure who they're referring to, either the police or the others.
Now, for years, as a police reporter in Miami, I watched as police departments struggled with striking that delicate balance between escalating a crowd and controlling a crowd. Now, as I watch these pictures that we're all looking at today with somewhat amazement, I think to the field force tactics and the maneuvers that were introduced in South Florida after a series of disastrous outcomes in Liberty City, in Wynwood, and in Overtown.
Joining me now is Miami's police chief, John Timoney, who knows firsthand about this type of thing.
Chief, thanks for being with us, as usual.
JOHN TIMONEY, MIAMI POLICE CHIEF: Thank you very much, Rick. Good to see you.
SANCHEZ: Likewise.
What is the main objective for these officers in London, as you have been watching these pictures throughout the day?
TIMONEY: Yes, unfortunately, they have their hands filled, obviously.
Their primary concern going into this is the leaders from all over the world, the 20 leaders from all over the world, including President Obama. They clearly -- that's the number-one priority for the police there.
The problem is, you have got so many targets, not just the world leaders, 10 Downing Street, the Parliament, Buckingham Palace. And then, as we see, most of the violence today, the property damage, is happening really two miles away down in the financial district.
And so, you know, there's only so many police soldiers you have.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
TIMONEY: It's a difficult challenge.
SANCHEZ: But you have to know these -- I have always been told, in talking to your fellows, in talking to you in the past when we have been down there in Miami, you have got to let these guys you mean business. You have to intimidate them into knowing that you mean business, but without setting them off and making the situation worse.
It's de-escalation vs. escalation. How do you do that?
TIMONEY: Well, it's really very difficult.
Sometimes, it's more difficult than other times. What you see here today is, the vast majority of people who are out there, they have got a right to protest. They have got a right to be angry. But then you have a small group, maybe a few hundred, who are hell-bent on doing a lot of property damage.
These are the so-called anarchists, who don't believe that property damage is a crime. And they infiltrate, you know, the normally law-abiding crowd who is there with a legitimate grievance. They will use that crowd for cover. And it makes it extremely difficult for the police to deal with them.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: How do you get that unruly guy out without making too much of a scene, so that you're attracting more attention to him, and then making him, you know, a bit of the -- you know, the guy who everybody else is going to want to follow?
TIMONEY: That's the problem.
And in this day and age of -- you saw the cameras. There must have been a couple of hundred cameras taking pictures of that one and two guys smashing in the windows of the Bank of Scotland.
They become pretty chaotic situations. It takes you, if you will, awhile to gain control, for the police to get into the crowds, to kind of separate the real hard-core combatants.
You also have the issue, these are narrow streets. A lot of peaceful protesters wanted to go back, but sometimes it's -- go back to where they came from. But it's difficult for the police to be able to discern who's the legitimate protester, who's the guy who's hell- bent on creating more damage.
And my sense is that the stalemate you saw there for a few hours, they're trying to sort it out and, at the same time, not exacerbate tensions. It's an extremely difficult position that the police find themselves in.
SANCHEZ: We -- I'm very familiar with the field force tactics that you guys have been introduced in Miami that are now being used all over the country, because I was a part of it while you guys were putting that in there, or your predecessors.
Explain to the viewer how that first line of officers moves forward, trying to create a buffer to stop the protesters from moving forward, but they're not the only ones, right? There's another line of guys in the background, and sometimes those guys have bigger guns or bigger weapons, right?
TIMONEY: Right. They can.
And what you're trying to do is really move in a team fashion, that officers don't take individual actions, you know, charge a crowd, even if they're provoked. And some in the crowd will try and provoke you. And the whole idea to hold the line, to move methodically, move under the instructions of a sergeant or a lieutenant.
You have reinforcements in the back. I saw earlier today they finally brought some of the horses in. You don't like to bring the horses in right away, but sometimes if it gets so dangerous, you have to bring them in.
My sense is, you know, that they will have their hands filled one more time tomorrow, because tomorrow is really D-day. But today was a good practice session, as far as sorting it all out.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I will tell you, you're one of the best at taking us through this. I know you have dealt with it here, and maybe we will be talking to you tomorrow.
TIMONEY: Yes.
SANCHEZ: We will see if the situation gets any better or worse. We will be here for you either way.
Chief Timoney of Miami, thank you, sir, for taking time to talk to us.
TIMONEY: Thanks, Rick. Good seeing you.
SANCHEZ: Likewise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: The prime minister has repeatedly blamed the United States of America for causing this crisis. France and Germany blame both Britain and America for causing this crisis. Who is right? And isn't the debate about that at the heart of the debate about what to do now?
(END VIDEO CLIP) SANCHEZ: The very first question to President Obama today, is America to blame? You're going to hear how he answered it, as our national conversation rolls into developing news mode out of London. You won't miss a beat.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: A developing story with video that's coming in to us right now, there you have it.
I'm looking over on the edge of this thing. They call this the team picture, when all the officials at the G20 get together for a picture. There you see Lula da Silva. He's to the left of the queen, the president of Brazil. There you see Gordon Brown just to the right of the queen. Interestingly enough, those two have kind of been hitting it off of late.
You see President Hu of China and obviously President Obama just behind the queen, a stirring photo. Interesting, the irony of this, trying to organize this picture with all these world leaders, while you have nothing but disorganization on the streets of London.
Take a look at the pictures that we have been watching throughout the day. These are pictures of police clashing with protesters. And aside from what we have seen on the streets of London, there's also a sense of anger inside some of the official buildings where the summit is being held.
Now, although more restrained, there is no question the sentiment is to blame the United States and its financial system and institutions for the global collapse. We have heard that time and time again.
It was, as I told you it would be yesterday, the very first question asked of President Obama today at 5:00 in the morning our time, Eastern time. Here is how he answered it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I would say that if you look at the sources of this crisis, the United States certainly has some accounting to do with respect to a regulatory system that was inadequate to the massive changes that had taken place in the global financial system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Now, here's what's interesting about this. Prime Minister Brown, who, interestingly enough, has been quoted as blaming the United States in many ways, or the United States financial institution, then chimes in right after Obama made that statement to help the president of the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORDON BROWN, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I was in Brazil last week, and I think President Lula will forgive me for saying this -- he said to me, when I was leader of the trade unions, I blamed the government; when I became leader of the opposition, I blamed the government; when I became the government, I blamed Europe and America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So Gordon Brown saying it's convenient to blame Europe and the United States. President Obama says things will get better.
But is he right, and, if so, how soon? We are going to be delving into this.
But, next, the pictures again -- this is the attack on the Royal Bank of Scotland by these G20 protesters. Why did they target the Royal Bank of Scotland? We now know the answer to that question. We will share it with you.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Rick. This is Rose in Colorado.
I think that everybody needs to cut Obama a break and give him a chance to do what he needs to do. Nobody knows if it's going to work or if it's not going to work, because we have never done this before. So, I think everybody needs to take a chill pill.
Thanks a lot.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: The big thing everyone is talking about is some of these disturbances that have been taking place in London.
As we look at the pictures, I want to share with you some of the comments that have been coming in from thousands of people who are watching this newscast right now.
On the left of your screen there, you see some of the pictures that we have been talking about. On the right of your screen, let's share with you what you have been saying.
"Violent protesters discredit their cause through public eyes."
"What is happening in London is massive. The people are making a statement."
"Brzezinski is so great. Love his insight and perspective. Thanks for having him on."
We think so, too.
Let's go over now to Facebook, if we can. Scott Pastor (ph) is watching. We will zoom in on that. "Since when," he says on the first line, "Since when has the right to protest been in question? Since when did freedom of speech equate to destruction of property?"
And then Christy (ph) just below that, if you could, Robert. People are rioting because they do not like their governments' handling of the economic struggles. It doesn't matter if they are white or black. There is nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe in, no matter what."
So, the people are speaking, citizen journalism. We involve you, your comments, and we will continue to share.
By the way, some of this same pitchfork mentality that we have seen exhibited in this country targeting companies like AIG has been on display -- on display in England.
Here's what you're about to see. Let me set this one up for you. This is the attack on the Royal Bank of Scotland, whose CEO retired at the age of 50 with a $1 million-a-year pension. That made people angry, this despite, by the way, screwing things up for his company, according to many critics.
Let's take the video, Rog, up full, so that folks can see it. This is it.
They have got pro-anarchy symbols on there. They also wrote "thieves" on the buildings as they started to attack. And police came in and tried to do whatever it was to stop them. But it was very futile at that point.
The bank was closed, by the way, as police moved in -- last year's losses for the bank, nearly $35 billion. It's the worst loss in British corporate history, by the way.
As we look at that, let's turn the picture now. Yes, Rog, let's go to this. This is the clash that we followed earlier today -- police cracking heads, swinging clubs, literally, in some cases.
Let's listen to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Because what they've done is wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what I need for you to do is just bon voyage. You just go back...
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Look at the guy with the bloody head there. That's the one we were referring to earlier.
Did you cut this, Johnny?
(VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Does that about tell it?
I mean it's about -- it's a -- is it just a clash with police as they're struggling with some of the protesters here?
Look at this.
(VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. There's something else I want to show you now. I want you to listen to this guy. He's -- he's telling people they're out of control and they shouldn't be.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...bad names. They will trivialize you, marginalize you by making you violent. If we are nonviolent, we get bigger space. If we are nonviolent, we will win.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE LANGUAGE) on your face. (EXPLETIVE LANGUAGE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There you have it -- basically, watching it in the raw, as they say.
Is there an organizational plan to these protests?
We talk about police strategy.
Well, is there a protester strategy, as well?
You're going to be hearing from one of them.
But next, no other G20 meeting has ever been as focused on the economy. We're talking to the White House and a global economy about what the -- a global economist, I should say. I misspoke, pardon me -- about what the role of the United States needs to be vis-a-vis the role of the Europeans.
And then there's news on that Dallas police officer who you heard from yesterday apologizing for stopping a family from seeing a dying relative -- big news on this one.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: There's something I've got to tell you, because I got up at 5:00 this morning -- 5:00 in the morning to watch this. It's the irony of today. The president of the United States -- well, he goes all the way to Europe to speak directly to the people of the United. Think about that -- he goes all the way to Europe to speak directly to the people of the United States, where he was asked by a British reporter, what are Americans supposed to do, save, spend?
What?
What are we supposed to do, Mr. President?
Here's the president's best or closest imitation -- I want you to hear this -- to that famous "nothing to fear but fear itself" line uttered by FDR.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Basing decisions around fear is -- is the right way to go. We athlete going to get through this difficult time. And this is a difficult time, but it's not what happened to our grandparents' generation. And so, you know, I would ask people to be confident about their own futures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Joining us now is Wachovia global economist, Jay Bryson.
The president seemed to tell people there are opportunities out there?
Yes, it's interesting, it's almost like he's selling the opportunities to the American people and, also, other consumers. And he's doing all of this while we're -- and, if you could, Rog, put some of those pictures back up while we have this conversation. He's doing this as we're seeing people protesting outside because they're so, in many ways, angry about what's going on with the economic situation around the world.
Is the president right to sell that message?
JAY BRYSON, GLOBAL ECONOMIST: Well, yes. I don't think we should be completely clamping down right now. But, you know, in some sense, I mean we, as a country are spending right now. It's just -- it's not the private sector that's doing it, it's the public sector. That's what this whole stimulus package was -- was aimed at doing, is trying to prop up the economy or keep the economy from sagging less at a time when both consumers and businesses are pulling back so...
SANCHEZ: Is this thing working for this guy?
I'm looking at the market right now. It's up 140 points. You've got the president seeming relaxed and poised in his first world trip. I mean the guy never looks nervous to me. I know I would be. You probably would be if you were in that setting, especially with everything going on outside and all those world leaders.
He's telling Europeans, I'm spending and I want you to spend, too.
Are they going to listen to him?
BRYSON: I don't think that they are, necessarily. I mean some of the countries over there are spending more than others. I mean, for instance, Germany, they have a pretty good stimulus package in place right now. As a matter of fact, their car sales over the first two months of the year are actually up significantly.
Italy, on the other hand, isn't spending as much. So it's kind of mixed when you look at Europe. They're not spending as much as he would like them to.
SANCHEZ: Hey, Jay, I want you to listen to the president. I mean here's him -- this is where he's making the same pitch that you and I were just talking about -- if we're going to do it, everybody else has got to do it.
Here's his message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: If there's going to be renewed growth, it can't just be the United States as the engine. Everybody is going to have to pick up the pace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It's like that guy who's -- you know, who's trying to travel through a desert and he's on a burrow or a donkey. And it stops -- thing stops and he's got to somehow push it to get it to go. You almost got that sense a you were listening to the president make that statement there.
BRYSON: Yes. And I think, you know, he's going to be a little disappointed in what the Europeans are going to tell him. But, unfortunately, there's another major country in the world that is actually spending a lot right now. It's one we don't typically think about or historically have not -- and that's actually China. They actually have a pretty good fiscal stimulus package in place right now.
So there are places in the world where spending is going on. It's not in some of the traditional sort of countries that, you know, u7 would normally think of.
SANCHEZ: But the president this morning said everyone is spending in one way or another.
Is he right?
Or was he kind of B.S.ing us on that one?
BRYSON: No. Every -- almost every major economy in the world does have a fiscal stimulus package in place. So if you're looking at...
SANCHEZ: And that's what he said. By the way, those were his words. He said every country has a fiscal stimulus package.
BRYSON: Right.
SANCHEZ: So he was telling the truth?
BRYSON: He's certainly telling the truth. Now, you know, again, it's not -- it's not significant amounts in some of these countries. But everybody does have a fiscal stimulus package in place at this point.
SANCHEZ: Jay Bryson, good guest.
Thanks so much for taking us through this. We'll talk to you again.
BRYSON: Thank you.
(VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You can see here how police and protesters are confronting each other in this scene. It happened time and time again -- blood on the faces of protester protesters, blood on the faces of police officers. We talked about the police strategy and tactics.
Well, what's the tactic of these protesters?
We're going to be asking one of them and involving you in a live chat as we talk about this -- another step in experimental television at 3:00 here on CNN.
Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUZANNE: Hey, Rick. It's Suzanne (ph) from Birmingham. I think the Obamas athlete doing a great job in London. It's nice to not be embarrassed by our president abroad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: It's funny to watch all the reactions that are coming in from many of you.
Are still Americans angry?
You bet they are. Look at this comment coming into us just during the break. It's on the Twitter board. Galliso says: "I love the video of the protester with the V for Vendetta mask. I wish the G20 would be in America so I could protest." Interestingly, enough.
We thank you for all of your comments. And, man, they're coming in hot and heavy.
Now, as we look at these pictures again that we've been showing you, we want to drill down now on who these people are.
What drives them?
What is their passion when they show up to protest and do this?
The media often ignore these protests which only fuels their sense of disconnect, it seems.
As I begin a conversation with my next guest, I want you to note that we're doing something brand new today. In our constant quest to make you a part of our national conversation and not just talk to you, but talk with you, check out this new live chat stream.
Screen right.
See that?
These are some of the followers of this show who are going to be making comments as they listen in real time.
On the phone with me now is John Hilary. He's a director of one of those groups that's protesting over there in London.
His group is called War On Want.
Mr. Hilary, thanks for being with us again, sir.
JOHN HILARY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WAR ON WANT: Thank you very much for having me.
SANCHEZ: You were on the streets today, I understand.
What was it like from that perspective?
HILARY: It was a really strong carnival atmosphere. It was one of the great things, Rick, is it was a very nice, sunny day in London, which you can't always be sure of at this time of year. So that helped people to be mainly in a very, very good mood. There was lots of colorful costumes, lots of sort of festival people playing drums and music.
And I think a lot of this sort of more angry scenes that people are being shown on their televisions, that's not actually representative of what was happening on the ground, for the main part.
SANCHEZ: But when you've two guys beating the heck out of each other and blood on their face, how can you expect people to pay attention to the guy over there in the corner who's got a big smile on his face and is holding flowers?
HILARY: Well, I'm afraid that's right. And I think that's -- that's where the media certainly wants to go. They want to have more exciting pictures. And maybe we're a little bit boring when we're just sitting here having a good time there.
SANCHEZ: Does that make you want to do that, then, as a protester?
I mean does that make you want to cross the line? HILARY: Not for me, personally. I think we've got a very serious message to bring here. And there's always that worry that if you come with a serious message about the crisis, you know, about people who are losing their jobs, who are losing their homes, you don't really want all of the focus to go on a couple of people who have broken a window.
SANCHEZ: Well, what...
HILARY: Because that takes away.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you this.
At what point is crossing the line?
When do you go from being a legitimate protester to a hooligan or worse?
HILARY: Well, we've certainly felt that War On Want, from the other groups who came along today, we've come absolutely peaceably. We've, you know, taken over that part of the city. And we've wandered around. We've handed out leaflets. We've made our point to the media, as well, really spelling out all of the things that we're there for in terms of social justice and opportunity for working people to keep their jobs and everything like that.
So I think that side of things is absolutely clear.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me ask you about these guys who broke this bank, this Royal Bank of Scotland. Apparently, they were upset because some of the bonuses of the Americans are here.
What's your take on them busting down the windows and actually going inside the building, which, by the way, is trespassing -- and then writing "thieves" on the building itself?
HILARY: Well, the really interesting thing here, Rick, is actually that the Royal Bank of Scotland has had an extraordinary history. It's been the most signal example of a bank completely collapsing. And we, the public, have actually bought it out. So, in a sense people aren't trespassing, because it's actually now a public bank because we, as taxpayers, were asked to come and pay up for it. So people are actually just going into a bank which is already theirs.
SANCHEZ: But you're not saying they have a right to do that?
I mean after all, when it gets to that point, the police have to move in and certainly things could escalate.
And, by the way, speaking of escalating, we're hearing things might even be worse tomorrow.
What's your take?
HILARY: I wouldn't have thought so, because tomorrow, all of the leaders are very, very much sort of put away from public gaze in this big center down at the Docklands. So there's a huge cordon between anybody who's protesting and the actual people who -- who will be doing the discussions at the summit. So I think they will be a long way away from any trouble.
I think today was really the time when people wanted to come to the streets and say, you know, the system has failed. And there are some really angry people.
We have scenes on our television of pensioners who have worked all of their lives and suddenly seen their pensions go up in smoke. So they've got nothing left for their retirement -- for their, you know, senior years. And that's the sort of -- the human story behind all of this.
SANCHEZ: Everybody gets that. Everybody gets that, John Hilary -- I mean not just the people who are protesting there.
But, you know, it's interesting to be able to get your perspective on this there on the ground.
My thanks to you, sir, for taking the time to talk to us.
And, by the way, this is great, having your comments -- watching the show while we had that discussion. It's new. It's different. My thanks to producer -- executive producer Angie Massie for organizing this. I think we'll be doing it again.
We've been telling you about the police officer who was on our air yesterday apologizing after harassing a family who was trying to reach a dying relative. His fate has been decided. That was quick.
Also, we've got word this afternoon the White House wants to talk to our viewers of this show -- to you. I'll serve as your conduit once again.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: There's President Obama. President Obama he with the queen.
Also, had a black tie dinner at Downing Street.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: There's President Obama -- President Obama at tea with the queen.
He also had a black tie dinner at Downing Street. He is, no doubt, one of the stars of this G20 Summit.
And while he's in London, his economic advisers back at the White House are taking it easy on lounge chairs. They've got their feet up because the boss is away -- well, maybe not.
Austan Goolsbee is good enough to join us.
He's the chief economist of the White House Recovery Board.
He joins me now.
Austan, how crucial is this G20 Summit to the U.S. economic recovery plan?
AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, WHITE HOUSE ECONOMIC ADVISER: Well, I think it's a pretty important summit to have. That is, we've got a recovery effort going and we've got a financial regulatory reform effort going. And the president's been saying for some time, both of those are things we've got to do in concert with -- with our allies and with other leading economies around the world. That doesn't mean everybody has got to do the same thing, but it's going to be more effective if we coordinate.
SANCHEZ: You know, Gordon Brown has blamed the U.S. for the global economic crisis. The Germans and the French have also done the same in public over there. It's all nice, nice. But, I mean, tell us the truth, when they close those doors tomorrow, how much flak does our president -- your boss, expect to get from these guys?
GOOLSBEE: Well, you know, who knows what public pronouncements are different from what the private discussions are?
I think there's pretty board consensus within Europe, in the United States and within Asia -- and pretty much throughout the G20 -- that we are going to need to move together to try to bring stimulus to the world economy. The entire world economy is shrinking at this point. The estimates are not looking good.
And, also, on this financial regulatory reform, which, as I say, I mean you can't have -- if one country acts and it drives all the money into the neighbors or away from the neighbors, then you're going to have problems.
SANCHEZ: You've got to almost feel bad -- I'm sure you do -- for the Republicans. I mean here's the president of the United States meeting on the world stage with all these foreign leaders during the last couple of days when they're starting to unveil their new budget -- a thin one, at that. The first copy had only 17 pages on it.
I think your colleague, Jarrod Bernstein, told my colleague, Kyra Phillips, that it looked like something from another planet.
What is your...
GOOLSBEE: Planet?
SANCHEZ: ...humble assessment of this?
GOOLSBEE: Look, if it came from another planet, it was a very, very small planet. This thing -- I mean it came out on April Fool's Day and I really thought it might have been an April Fool's joke. This thing is unbelievable. It just winds the clock back to the previous eight years that got us into the mess we're in now. So they're going to cut taxes by literally trillions of dollars -- beyond even what George Bush already cut taxes for people who make more than a quarter of a million dollars a year; get rid of Barack Obama's Making Work pay credit that would cut taxes for 95 percent of workers; end the stimulus program -- just repeal it; and simultaneously claim that you're going to cut the deficit by...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
GOOLSBEE: ...voucherizing and privatizing Medicare.
SANCHEZ: Well...
GOOLSBEE: I mean it's really a pretty radical document, if you start looking at it.
SANCHEZ: On the hot scale right now, you guys are hot and they're not. You should probably strike while you are, because you never know if things will change again. It's American politics and they do. You can take that as advice or not.
GOOLSBEE: OK, no one's ever described me as hot before, but I'll take it as a compliment.
(LAUGHTER)
SANCHEZ: I don't think I meant it that way, but go ahead and take it as you choose.
Mr. Goolsbee, thanks so much, sir, for talking to us.
We appreciate it.
GOOLSBEE: Nice talking to you.
SANCHEZ: Ted Stevens was charged. He claimed his innocence.
Guess what?
Ted Stevens was convicted and he still claimed his innocence. Now, Ted Stevens is about to go free. You wonder what he'll say this time. What a story.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Wolf Blitzer is joining us now, where the Justice Department has dropped -- this is -- this is one of those stories that, when I was listening to it this morning on NPR, I kind of had to shake my head -- dropping all charges of corruption against former Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it's really amazing when you... SANCHEZ: Why?
What's going on?
BLITZER: ...when you think about it, Rick. This is the Democratic attorney general, Eric Holder, reversing a decision against this Republican senator, former Senator Ted Stevens, that was imposed by a Republican-led Justice Department during the Bush administration.
So it is pretty amazing. They have dropped all charges against the Alaska senator. We have a lot of -- a lot more coming up on this story in "THE SITUATION ROOM." Our own homeland security correspondent, Jeanne Meserve, is working the story.
But it is pretty dramatic, when you think about it.
SANCHEZ: Eighty-five years old. I'm looking at him. And you know what, he...
BLITZER: And, you know, and he barely -- barely lost his bid for reelection, I think by just under 4,000 votes. He came very close to getting himself reelected.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
BLITZER: Had he won, he would still be in the Senate right now and they've just dropped all those charges. So it's -- it's one of those stunning developments that cries out for some serious reporting.
SANCHEZ: Well, I can't wait to see it. And I guess now, at least, he gets to keep his name at the airport up there in Anchorage.
Wolf Blitzer, thanks so much, sir.
We'll look forward to your show.
BLITZER: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: You know that Dallas traffic stop that we've been showing you all week, the one where the NFL player was prevented from seeing his dying mother-in-law?
Well, we've got an update on the police officer involved. That's right. It's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Police Officer Powell, who we've been telling you about, who kept a family from seeing a dying relative, has resigned. Dallas police made it official today. They accepted his resignation. That was quick.
This was the video that did it. And he's seen there preventing an NFL player and his family from going inside the building.
Let's look at the market now. We talked about it earlier. Boy, it's up 138 points...
Susan Lisovicz is standing by, taking us through this -- Susan, what you got?
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Rick. It's the first day of April -- April Fool's Day. But that's no prank there on the big board. We have some big numbers, nice gains, because we saw signs of life in the housing market, which offset bad news in the jobs market and auto sales.
See you tomorrow, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Ding, ding, ding -- another up day, somewhat surprising.
Thanks so much, Susan.
Wolf Blitzer is standing by now.
Here is "THE SITUATION ROOM."
BLITZER: Rick, thanks very much.
