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Aired April 04, 2009 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Massacred in a barrage of bullets. More than 100 rounds take down police officers in Pittsburgh. And in Binghamton, New York, civilians are the ones gunned down. The senseless carnage here at home capturing the attention of the president and the world. Our outspoken panel weighs in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't be concerned every day with what Europe thinks and what Europeans view America as.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The news starts right now.
Good evening, everyone, I'm Don Lemon. We start with the horrifying story just into CNN. It is out of Washington State. CNN has confirm that five children have been found dead in a home in the Seattle, Tacoma area, apparently all shot. Police believe the kids may have been killed by their father, who was also found dead earlier today at another unspecified location.
The police believe the 35-year-old man killed himself. His kids ranged in age from seven to 16 years old. We will keep following this story this weekend, and bring you any new developments as we get them.
We want to go now to Pittsburgh, where they are mourning the deaths of three police officers killed in the line of duty, fatally gunned down this morning, responding to call -- a call of domestic disturbance. The fallen are Eric Kelly, Paul Sciullo and Stephen Mayhle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF NATHAN HARPER, PITTSBURGH POLICE: Upon one officer approaching the house, the actor opened fire on the officer, fatally wounding him. The second officer was behind the first officer. He also sustained a fatal wound to the head as well. The third officer, who was on his way home, actually, that heard the call come over the radio, that decided to back these officers up, was also fatally wounded as he tried to assist both officers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Several other officers were wounded before the gunman surrendered. Police say during the rampage, Richard Poplawski wore a bulletproof vest and was shot multiple times in the legs. A friend of the gunman told us he is dumb-founded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFREY LOFFLER, FRIEND OF SUSPECT: I don't know what to say. I'm truly, truly -- my mind is -- is going like this, trying to figure out a reason that would make what was going so bad for this kid, that would make him want to do this.
EDWARD PERKOVIC, SUSPECT'S FRIEND: There was a domestic dispute at the household. I guess police came to take his firearms away from him. He always said that if anyone tried to take his firearms, he was going to stand by what his forefathers told him to do and defend himself. And I guess he went about it the wrong way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Poplawski has been charged with three counts of homicide. Police say they had responded to calls to the residence before, but they still haven't confirmed a motive.
Now to another mass shooting, Binghamton, New York; 13 people gunned down in cold blood yesterday at an immigrant community center. Four others were wounded. All are being treated in the hospital and are expected to survive. CNN's Susan Candiotti reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Police called Jiverly Wong a coward for taking his own life before they could take his.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank god before more lives were lost that he decided to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The motor sets on top of it. And this cord that comes out of here has to sit in there just right.
CANDIOTTI: Those who worked with Jiverly Wong making vacuum cleaners remembered a bold threat he made last fall about killing the president and hating America. They didn't take him seriously. Instead they teased him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought that was kind of odd. So I told him the FBI was outside looking for him the next day. And he got all crazy about it. He was -- he was hiding under the table.
CANDIOTTI: On Friday, in broad daylight, Wong strolled into an immigrant help center armed with two semi-automatic handguns and protected by a bulletproof vest. Police say he opened fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He never spoke a word.
CANDIOTTI: Survivors hid in a nearby room, cowering in fear after hearing gun shots.
(INAUDIBLE) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were all so scared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the people close to him, these actions that he took was not a surprise to him. We picked up that he was -- apparently people were making fun of him. He felt that he was being degraded because, from what we get, inability to speak English.
CANDIOTTI: After losing his job last year after his factory shut down, Wong took English lessons at the very same American Civic Association he targeted. Police say he dropped out last month. He was 41, a U.S. citizen of Vietnamese descent, unmarried, and lived at home with his parents. Co-workers say he loved target shooting. Police say Wong had a valid gun permit. They're examining a home computer.
A community's grief was felt by the president.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am heartbroken for families who survived this tragedy. And it just underscores the degree to which, in each of our countries, we have to guard against the kind of senseless violence that the tragedy represents.
CANDIOTTI: Saturday night, Henry Eagall (ph) officially received the news he feared; his Filipino bride Deloris was among the dead. Her husband said she was taking English lessons at the immigration center to better herself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's come so far, so much.
CANDIOTTI: Police told him his wife didn't suffer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Susan Candiotti joins us now. Susan, we understand that they are still planning on the work going on at the center, even with this tragedy.
CANDIOTTI: That's right. This is where that tragedy did occur. The American Civic Association, tonight they are saying that despite everything, this group that was found in 1939 to help fellow immigrants, the work here will go on no matter what Jiverly Wong did. They won't let what he did stop them.
LEMON: Susan, we appreciate your reporting. Thank you very much. You heard the president responded there in Susan's story. President Barack Obama has arrived in the Czech Republic hours after he wrapped up his summit with NATO leaders in France. He plans meetings tomorrow with Czech leaders.
Earlier, NATO committed up to 5,000 military trainers and police for Afghanistan, but no new combat troops. Mr. Obama says his new strategy will pay dividends.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: Seven years later, al Qaeda is active in the border regions of Afghanistan and Pakistan. These terrorists threaten every member of NATO. They've struck in both Europe and North America. They are plotting new attacks and that's why my administration undertook a comprehensive review of our strategy. We listened carefully and we consulted closely with our allies. And today I briefed them on the results and discussed how we might move forward together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Tomorrow, President Obama plans a speech on stopping the spread of nuclear weapons. He also has more meetings with European leaders.
Any time this weekend, North Korea could launch what it says is a communications satellite. But the U.S. believes it's actually a cover for a long-range missile test. We're monitoring any developments out of that region.
It is one of the biggest hot-button issues in politics: an assault weapons ban. Should it be reinstated? Would that be an infringement of our Second Amendment rights? Everyone has an opinion, and so do these guys. We will find out what they think about -- and what you're hearing as well. No-holds-barred, folks. And as always, we want you to weigh in.
Plus this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you believe in your heart happened to your son that night?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was murdered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Young men across the country found dead. A night out in the town -- after going out on the town. Is there a serial killer at work? We're digging deeper into the Smiley Face Murder mystery.
Plus, we want to know what's on your mind tonight. Become part of our community, Twitter, Facebook, Myspace or iReport.com is how you get your comments on the air.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: As evidenced by the news, there is an upsurge in gun violence in the country. I spoke with a former FBI agent who talked about the issue of gun control and how the debate on the topic becomes political and polarizes many in the country.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GREGG MCCRARY, FORMER FBI INVESTIGATOR: Nobody's out killing liberals or conservatives. These guys are just out killing our fellow citizens. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I want to expand our discussion on gun violence. I invited columnist and writer David Sirota, syndicated columnist Michelangelo Signorile and former Republican party chair Jim Greer to help me flesh it out. You just heard the former FBI agent, Gregg McCrarry, talking about the political debate on gun control, saying it's people being killed, not conservatives or liberals. I asked my guests their thoughts.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM GREER, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN PARTY OF FLORIDA: I really don't think it's a conservative/liberal issue. I'm a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. The Republican party is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. But we have got to find a solution to the issues where dangerous criminals are getting guns and they're hurting and killing people.
I don't look to Europe to tell us how we should solve this crisis. I think we need to make sure that we have very thorough background checks, that we have very extensive gun laws.
LEMON: Hang on. Why not look to Europe? And I'm going to get your response. I'm going to get you guys in here. Because when you look at gun violence in Europe, below the U.S., less guns in the U.S., they have problems, too. They had several of these mass killings. I think David Said nine in the past, what, ten years you said, David?
DAVID SIROTA, INDEPENDENT RADIO HOST: Eleven in the past 10 years.
LEMON: I just reeled off five or six in the past month. They've got to be doing something right.
GREER: I can tell you one thing, when you travel to Europe -- I was in Paris recently. And you look on the corner and the police are carrying oozies and machine guns on every other corner. So when we talk about Europe and how they're enforcing gun laws and so on, they have a different relationship with their citizens. They have armed police officers with assault rifles on every corner on every street.
So there's not a lot of people doing a lot of shooting right then because they get shot a lot quicker because of their approach to law enforcement.
LEMON: And, Michael, but in some places in Europe, and I have been there, you don't -- the police officers don't even carry guns and you see very little violence.
MICHELANGELO SIGNORILE, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: That's absolutely true. Look, the problem is the laws and the restrictions are very, very lax, and we now have assault weapons available in this country. We know that's the problem as well with Mexico and the drug gangs. We know that people have access to guns who shouldn't have guns. Certainly, the Virginia Tech killer, his mental stability wasn't checked.
We have right now a real paranoia on the right that is whipping people up. We have representative Michele Bachmann -- I would like Mr. Greer to address this -- a member of his party, saying our opposition needs to be armed and dangerous.
LEMON: OK.
SIGNORILE: We have 1.2 million background checks more in the last four-month period because the right has been whipped up into thinking Barack Obama's going to take away their Second Amendment rights and that's not true. We're talking about restrictions, not taking away all of the guns.
LEMON: I want to let David Sirota get in on this. David, you were saying, that's not necessarily true. I think you may agree with Mr. Greer here to some point, at least. Because you're saying Europe has the same problem as us.
SIROTA: It's a mix here. This is a mix. I think our gun laws, the end of the assault weapons ban has been a very bad thing for our country. But I think simply saying it's a problem only of our laws is not really getting to where this problem is. I used to live in Montana. It has a very high prevalence of people owning guns and has a very, very low amount of gun violence. So the amount of guns and the access to guns is only one part of this issue.
There's the whole other issue of, right, mental health, of people feeling alienated. We're a country that's under a severe amount of stress right now, and that is going to create a whole lot of problems. And I think one of those problems is this kind of thing we are seeing. So it's a bunch of different issues. If we're going to address it, we can't just say it's gun laws or it's not gun laws or it's a bunch of different things.
LEMON: I'm just going to say this --
GREER: I agree with that. I think that's very reasonable.
LEMON: I'm looking country by country. I'm just saying, we have probably the worst problem than anybody else. And it's just -- it's the truth, if you look at the statistics. Japan registration of firearms, yes. Singapore, yes. UK, yes. Netherlands, yes. Spain, yes. Germany, yes. Italy, yes. Israel, yes. Australia, yes. Canada, all guns by 2003, which will be a yes. Obviously, this is older, from 2002. France, yes, except sporting rifles.
Canada would be yes now, France would be yes, Switzerland yes. Finland yes. USA, hand guns in some states. Licensing of gun owners in some states. Everybody else, yes. So what are we not getting?
GREER: I don't think --
(CROSS TALK)
LEMON: Registration and licensing. GREER: We need to have strong enforcement of gun laws. We need to have strong enforcement of gun laws, thorough background checks. But our founding fathers were very clear that the citizens of this country should have the right to bear arms to ensure that they maintain a Democratic society.
(CROSS TALK)
SIGNORILE: You just made all of the sense in the world with the list. It makes complete sense. We have the most lax gun laws in the developed world, and we have the most violence. It's that simple. And the Second Amendment was not about people having assault weapons and being able to go out and shoot up a bunch of people. It has been distorted. We need the laws.
LEMON: Mr. Greer, I'm going to give you the last word on this.
GREER: Sure, we need laws. I believe we should have very stringent laws on guns and I believe we should do background checks on people that possess them and put people in jail that violate those gun laws. But we should not ban guns in this country. We should protect the Second Amendment to ensure that our government is not the only ones with guns.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right. The president says Americans are arrogant. Is he right? Our panel discusses that coming up.
In the meantime, young men across the country found dead after a night out on the town. Is there a serial killer at work? We're digging deeper, much deeper into this, the Smiley Face Murder mystery.
And then later on --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guadeloupe has been exposed to violence in ways that are hard to imagine for a six-year-old. In the previous week, there was a murder out in front --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: We're going further inside of this as well coming up, by people who have been there. The human cost of the drug wars in Mexico. A closer look at the war next door.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. So the deaths of dozens of young men across 11 states and 25 cities were declared accidental drownings. But now new surveillance videos put them back in the headlines. It's called the Smiley Face Killer. That case has become front-page news again. There's a lot more to it than we know.
CNN's Randi Kaye reports from New York. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, the group tracking the Smiley Face Killer cases say they've added several new cases to their database. They say the cases they're studying date back actually to 1997, maybe even earlier. Now in all, they have looked at more than 150 drownings in the U.S. which they call suspicious.
(voice-over): We find it on a tree at the Port of Albany, New York. A smiley face painted in white, staring back at us.
(on camera): What do you see here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I see is a circle, two eyes, a nose, no mouth. But it clearly represents a smiley face.
KAYE (voice-over): Bill Szostak believes this smiley face was left behind by someone who killed his son. Twenty one-year-old Joshua Szostak's body washed up in the Hudson River. Is he the latest victim of the Smiley Face Killers?
Retired detectives Kevin Gannon and Anthony Duarte came to find out. They believe a gang of killers may have murdered as many as 40 college-age men in nearly a dozen states, leaving these sick smileys as their trademark.
(on camera): Tell me what you believe is happening to these students.
KEVIN GANNON, RETIRED NYPD SERGEANT: I believe these young men are being abducted by individuals in the bars, taken out and at some point even held for a period of time before they were entered into the water.
KAYE (voice-over): The murders, they say, are staged to look like drownings. Each have been ruled accidental, case closed.
(on camera): Do you think it's possible all of these drownings around the country could be a coincidence?
BILL SZOSTAK, VICTIM'S FATHER: I find it ironic that so many young college-age males that fit the same profile wind up in a river from a night out.
KAYE: Bill says his son drank a few beers that night, but at 220 pounds would not have been so drunk he would wonder into the water.
Why would the killer or killers put the bodies in the water? Detective Duarte said water makes it the perfect crime. It makes it look like a drowning instead of a murder, and it erases key evidence, such as fingerprints or hair fibers. So the killer can't be identified.
(voice-over): Gannon and Duarte worked the cases backwards. Instead of looking at where the body is found, they used GPS and studied river flow and water levels to figure out where the body went in. That's the crime scene, they say, and that's where the smiley faces have been found.
(on camera): What kind of person would do that?
ANTHONY DUARTE, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Someone not good in school. Someone, obviously, not smart. Maybe doesn't have a job. Maybe is not popular.
KAYE: Jealously, possibly, could be a motive?
DUARTE: Deep down. Deep down.
KAYE (voice-over): Kevin Gannon won't discuss the cases in detail but says he believes three of the victims were held for hours and may be abused.
GANNON: The fear of death is just as important as the act of death itself.
KAYE: The FBI has its doubts. The bureau told us, "to date, we have not developed any evidence to support links between these tragic deaths or any evidence substantiating the theory that these deaths are the work of a serial killer or killers."
(on camera): What do you believe in your heart happened to your son that night?
SZOSTAK: He was murdered.
KAYE: Coincidence or killing spree?
Sergeant Gannon, who has put in so much time investigating this with his team, says they have also concluded three other suspicious deaths of young men found in the water were homicides. Now, in one case here in New York, the investigators say the young man was stalked, drugged, tied to a chair and tortured before his body was flipped into the water. They hope to convince federal authorities to look at these cases further. Don?
LEMON: All right, thank you very much for that, Randi Kaye. We're going to dig deeper inside of this. Joining me tonight is Kristi Piehl in Minneapolis and Bill Szostak is in Albany, New York. Kristi is an investigative reporter. She broke the Smiley Face Killer story the same week that Josh Szostak, Bill's son, was buried. The two worked independently over the summer. And Bill believes his son was a victim of the so-called Smiley Face Killer.
Thank you both for joining us. I want to ask you this, Kristi. First of all, let's get this out here, because I think this is the crux of this information. This surveillance video that you managed to get ahold of. We're going to play and I want you to tell us what we're seeing on it. Can we roll that? Then we will talk about Kristi about what it is. What you see in the highlighted area here, do you believe this is Josh, right? Is that what police believe?
KRISTI PIEHL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Yes, without a doubt, based on what he's wearing, based on the inside video. And you see him walking out, it's absolutely Josh.
LEMON: Give us the circumstances. He's walking out of a bar.
PIEHL: He's walking out of a bar. We had seen him inside. He had had a few drinks. He was standing fine and all of a sudden, he will grab onto his knees. He heaved. It's like a hot flash hits him. He tries to take off his clothes. And then he stumbles around. It's like he doesn't know where he is, and he's in his home town.
LEMON: It would appear, just from the video, it looks like maybe he was slipped something. Do you believe that, Mr. Szostak?
SZOSTAK: Without a doubt.
LEMON: Without a doubt. How do you think this helps police with your son's killing? Do you think they're taking this seriously? Are they looking into this, to your satisfaction?
SZOSTAK: No. The Albany Police Department closed this case hours after his autopsy, even before the toxicology reports were back. They feel as though this is a tragic death. It was an accidental drowning. And as they stated, any other conclusion is to further gain. They never even looked at the surveillance video from the bar that we're looking at right now.
LEMON: What do you -- what are you hearing from the police department, Kristi?
PIEHL: Excuse me?
LEMON: What are you hearing from the police department?
PIEHL: You know, the police department hasn't commented about this case except to call it a tragic accident. I think that what's tragic here is that the Szostak family, like so many other families, doesn't have answers and goes to sleep at night not knowing what happened to their son.
Clearly something happened to Josh. He ended up two miles away from this location in the opposite direction of where he was staying that night, where his car was. And he's not seen on any other surveillance video. I don't know how he could have gotten there unless someone else took him to the water's edge.
LEMON: Mr. Szostak, have you heard from anyone in this crowd, and you're looking at the surveillance video, anyone who was with your son that night that offers you any hope about what might have happened to him?
SZOSTAK: Talking to the six boys who were with my son that night. And when they looked at the surveillance video, they say the reaction to Josh out in front of the bar was not Josh inside of the bar. That was a totally different reaction. And they feel the same as everybody else, that he was given some sort of a drug.
LEMON: Yes, OK. Mr. Szostak, we appreciate you joining us. We know it's very tough for you. Kristi, the investigative reporter who uncovered this story. Thank you both very much. We hope this offers some hope to the Szostak and some help for the police in figuring out what's going on with these deaths. Both of you please come back when you get more information. Our hearts are with you.
PIEHL: Thank you.
SZOSTAK: Thank you.
LEMON: The war next door we want to talk about right now, and the cartels who are leaving behind a trail of bloody murders. Straight ahead here, we want to tell you about straight talk from a DEA agent about these wars next door. And we'll break down how the cartels operate, their size, their influence and the war that's creeping closer to where you live. And you may not know it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: I want to turn your attention now to the war next door. Really, it's a war at the border, on our border and Mexico's border. Top U.S. officials were in Mexico this week to discuss strategies for shutting down the drug cartels, which are blamed for thousands of deaths along the border over the past two years. Earlier in the week, Mexican authorities arrested one of that country's most wanted drug lords, Vincente Corrillio Lada (ph). He was nabbed while jogging in Mexico City, where he was living under an alias. Exercising, that's when he was arrested.
He's described as the heir to the Juarez Cartel. His father was a former drug kingpin known as the Lord of the Skies, because he had a fleet of private jet-liners that brought cocaine from Colombia to Mexico.
You know what, lately we have been hearing a lot about Mexican drug cartels, but who exactly are they? We want to break it down for you so you know. Knowledge is power. As much information is possible. Here is what people investigating these cartels believe. They believe these are the major players that they are dealing: the Gulf Cartel, Los Zetas, the Sinaloa Cartel, the Juarez Cartel and the Tijuana Cartel, also known as the Felix Arellano Organization, and Beltran Leyva Organization.
Ralph Reyes is the DEA's chief of global enforcement operations for Mexico and Central America. And he joins us now to explain to us about all of these cartels, why we should be concerned about them, why they should be on our radar. Let's take a little time to talk about these. Let's begin with the Juarez Cartel, right across the border from El Paso, Texas.
RALPH REYES, DEA, CHIEF OF ENFORCEMENT OPERATIONS: The Juarez Cartel poses a significant risk to the United States. It controls a major lucrative corridor, that El Paso Corridor. It's been able to sustain its stronghold on that corridor due to some alliances and allegiances, both across the border and within Mexico.
Currently, as has been publicized before, the Juarez Cartel (INAUDIBLE) -- has experienced probably the most significant amount of narcotic-related homicides, in excess of about 2,700 drug-related homicides.
LEMON: So are they the deadliest, the most dangerous?
REYES: Not so much the most deadliest. I think they're at war right now with the Sinaloa Cartel (INAUDIBLE) for control of that particular corridor, because of the profit that's it represents.
LEMON: That's good. Tell us about the Sinaloa Cartel.
REYES: The Sinaloa Cartel, the figurehead of that particular organization is Joaquin Guzman (ph), who most recently appeared on Forbes most rich, influential individuals. Joaquin Guzman is currently at war with the Juarez Cartel, with the Gulf Cartel, (INAUDIBLE). He's a gentleman that has for decades had enormous influence and control over the drug trade.
LEMON: And the one that the Mexican government is really been going after, though, is the Gulf Cartel. Why are they so interested in the Gulf Cartel?
REYES: The Gulf Cartel poses significant threat to the United States in that the triumvirate leaders, (INAUDIBLE) -- Jorge Castilla Sanchez and the others are basically, primarily with the assistance of the Gulf Cartel, the Settas (ph), are posing enormous risks, threats, national security threats to the Mexican authorities. They basically have been at the forefront of the majority of the narcotic related homicides and the public beheadings that are taking place in Mexico.
LEMON: That's the Gulf Cartel and Los Zetas. The Zetas pose a particular problem, because a lot of those are military men that were trained in their country. Also, were they trained by American troops as well?
REYES: It is unknown if they were trained by American. A lot of the myth associated with the Zetas has been more myth than anything else. The original group were a group of deserters that decided to join (INAUDIBLE) gang in protecting -- rather being his enforcement arm of his proceeds and his operation. But the Zetas obviously grew in large numbers by aspiring to young traffickers who wanted to be part of the Zetas.
So the allure of wanting to be part of such a violent group and the power associated with that particular group has obviously increased over -- throughout the years.
LEMON: Ralph Reyes, we appreciate you breaking this down for us. Thank you very much.
REYES: You're welcome.
LEMON: The grim life -- the grim reality of life on the streets of Juarez, Mexico. Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone in Juarez knows what it means when the twin white vans pull up in the neighborhood. Another dead body has been found.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: You know, we hear about dead bodies in the neighborhoods. But also some journalists fear losing their lives, and some have in covering this story. We are digging deeper with reporters who have been covering this story from the ground level.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. Just a short time ago, we spoke with a top DEA official about the warring Mexican drug cartels. Now we want to turn to a journalist who has been down there to report on the situation first hand. Look at this first.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRAVIS FOX, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Guadeloupe has been exposed to violence in ways that are hard to imagine for a six-year-old. In the previous week, there was a murder out in front of her school, where this memorial stands. And even inside school, there's little safety for these first graders. The schools are even targets of extortion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That is just one of the sobering videos filed by the "Washington Post's" Travis Fox. He joins us tonight from New York. Travis, just to be clear, other Post reporters were part of this series, correct?
FOX: That's right. I covered the effect of the drug war in Juarez specifically.
LEMON: And you know, we talk about this all the time, but you know the effects on the children, my gosh, being a young child growing up with this -- did you find that one of the hardest things to witness while you were there?
FOX: There were, of course, many, many difficult things to witness. That was one of the most difficult. Going into a neighborhood, that video was in a neighborhood, one of the most affected parts of Juarez. Actually, most of the people have already left. This one family has remained. And this six-year-old girl, Guadeloupe, goes to school every day. And even at the school, there have been extortion threats against the children and against the teachers. Every part of the society is being affected.
LEMON: Travis, a lot of people are holed up in their homes because they're afraid to leave. And who wouldn't be in this situation? Let's take a look at what's going on with some of the victim's families? OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FOX: She used to venture outside, taking strolls to the neighborhood, visiting family and friends. But no more. Not since last summer when her son Alejandro was killed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. So that's one of the victim's family. This lady is holed up in her home. Tell us about her when you spoke with her.
FOX: For Mexicans who live in Juarez, this is the biggest effect of the drug war. Not so much the numbers of the amount of people killed, just the threats to personal safety. For them, there's a security vacuum happening and they're scared to go outside. They're scared to go to restaurants. And you really see it on the streets.
This woman's son was killed last year. And since then, she's been scared to leave her house. She hardly leaves at all.
LEMON: I want to get another one of the things that you shot in. When we play this once, can we drop the banner, please, so that we can see the writing on the screen? This is a border shooting. This one to me really hit home, because you see actually how people are living in ambush about a mile from the border. Let's take a look. Drop the banner please, guys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FOX: This happened about a mile from the U.S. border, along a key smuggling ring. The driver of the car somehow survived the attack and was taken away by ambulance. But after only 15 minutes of investigation, the local police take off. There has been yet another shooting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So the gunman here went after this guy, after this ambush, right, Travis?
FOX: Actually, what was happening of this place -- and it's actually within sight of the border, where I was there. It was a very scary moment. The killers were actually moving up and down that road that you saw, just killing people constantly while we were there, in real time. There were four bodies -- five bodies actually that were dropped just in the space of an hour when we were there.
You see the shot there of the ambulance. One person they wounded in the car that you saw earlier. And then they had the gal to stop the ambulance a couple miles down the road, pull the wounded man out and finish him off right there on a major highway in Juarez.
LEMON: We can just show the video of this one. I don't have time to play it, Travis. But when the white van -- you know when the white van comes, what is that real quickly? Five seconds left. FOX: The white vans are essentially the body collectors. When white vans come in your neighborhood, you know that there's been a murder.
LEMON: Travis Fox, "Washington Post." we appreciate your reporting. And we want to you come back for sure. Thank you.
FOX: Thank you.
LEMON: President Obama is in Europe. Is he mending ties or is he going too far?
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GREER: We can't be concerned every day with what Europe thinks and what the Europeans view America has.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. What do Europeans think of the United States? President Obama has been received well there this week, speaking frankly about this country. Not everyone agreed with his approach to international relations, though. I opened the question up for discussion with my guests tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: -- that we hear. The president talked about arrogance, not only from Europeans, but from Americans while he's on his trip over there. Take a listen and I want to talk about it.
OBAMA: In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.
LEMON: And then he goes on to say that Europe does the same thing too. I hear Europeans saying, oh, you Americans and your big SUVs, as they call SUVs. Or you Americans and your big houses and whatever. That's kind of -- it's a snotty statement. And we hear it from both sides. What do you make of what the president said there, David?
SIROTA: I think it's a lot of maturity. I think it's a lot of honesty. I think he's talk become a taboo subject on both sides of the pond. And I think that he's right. I think too often Americans berate Europe and too often the Europeans berate the United States. And we have a lot of things that we can work together on. And I think that he's really taking something of a risk by going out there and potentially allowing himself to be attacked by the right.
But he's making a very, very mature and important statement. LEMON: You know what, Jim, it wasn't always that way. I remember traveling to Europe and, in many ways, Europeans were very envious of us, our economy, how strong the dollar was. I remember traveling to Australia, and people would say, you rich Americans. I wasn't rich at the time. We were just doing very well. How much of this has to be blamed on the last eight years in the White House?
GREER: I will say -- and I will agree that the last eight years have not been great for developing relationships with our international partners. And this is a good step. But I will tell you where I do stop and draw the line. I don't think our president, whether it's a Democrat or a Republican, should ever travel to a foreign country and openly criticize the United States of America for any reason. I think you might have closed-door discussions.
But, you know, when it comes to what Europeans think of the United States, and they don't like our arrogance, they never have seemed to fail to find our telephone number when they need to call us to defend them or to provide them assistance to them in an economic crisis. They always remember the United States of America is the nation of might when it comes to military and when it comes to our economy. So two points.
LEMON: But, Jim, isn't that what the president is talking about, though? The comment that you just made, isn't that exactly what he's saying we shouldn't be doing and we shouldn't be saying?
GREER: No, because I don't hear him talking about the -- the great things that America is. I don't hear him talking about how we contribute economically to the international community.
LEMON: Oh, come on!
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LEMON: We have some breaking news tonight we want to tell you about. Sorry for interrupting that. A South Korean government source tells CNN that North Korea has fired a long-range rocket, something it's been threatening to do for days now. The communist government has said describe the launch as a way to put a communications satellite into orbit. But the U.S. believes it's actually a cover for a long-range missile test.
President Barack Obama had warned North Korea against such a launch, but didn't say what the consequences might be again. A South Korean source tells CNN that North Korea has fired a long-range rocket. We will be following this developing story here on CNN. In the meantime, we want to listen in now to our partners at CNN international, who will pick up the story from here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At this point, none of this is confirmed. David, the last time North Korea launched a long-range be rocket, they also fired short-range rockets as well. But at this point, it has not been confirmed to us whether that has happened this time as well. This is the kind of thing that will be confirmed in the hours ahead. Another thing we're waiting to find out is immediate reaction from, in particular, the Americans and Japanese, who have mobilized their defense forces or -- in anticipation of this event. Tell us about that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Definitely. Not just the South Koreans, but the Japanese, as well as the U.S. have put their -- all of their military on alert. We know that there are Naval ships in the seas between Japan and South Korea that are monitoring the situation. They will look at the trajectory of the long-range rocket to figure out just what it is, what it can do, how far it can go and what it is carrying.
So it is expected that in the hours ahead, we will also get that information in terms -- to determine just what the long-range rocket capabilities of North Korea are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, thank you for that. Stick around. We will be tapping into your resources pretty soon. First, we are going to give our audience some more information about what has just taken place. We have confirmed through government sources in Japan and South Korea that North Korea has indeed launched a rocket. North Korea has more than 1,000 missiles in its arsenal. We're going to talk about its missile arsenals, even though we have yet to confirm what the payload is.
This is just providing some context for you. Now, these missile arsenals include 800 ballistic missiles, which can travel longer distances. Some of these missiles are capable of reaching South Korea and Japan and possibly Australia or U.S. military bases in Guam.
Now, North Korea is also reportedly testing a longer-range missile that could reach Alaska. Most analysts say the accuracy and reliability of these missiles is suspect. And North Korea is some time away from building a nuclear warhead small enough to fit on a missile.
Now, before this launch, North Korea said it wanted to put a satellite in orbit. Of course, we still don't know at this moment what has been launched on that rocket. Let's go back to our Sonji (ph), who joins us now from Seoul. There's been a lot of speculation in advance of this launch, which we knew and were informed was imminent, about why North Koreans want to do this. I want to get your thoughts on this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, that's the three million dollar question. And that's the question that's really difficult to answer. The outside world has to ponder just what is behind North Korea launching of a long-range rocket. Some of the obvious factors, reasons are that North Korea -- to North Korea, missile technology is one of their high foreign currency owners. So the very fact that they have developed this kind of missile technology is something that they could export and market for the North Korean economy in the short to long term.
But there are also many in South Korea saying that there is a more domestic angle to this as well. North Korea's leader, Kim Jong- il, has been reported to have failing health. There's been a lot of rumors about the leadership question in North Korea.
North Korea's also coming upon a very important political event. April 9th is the first meeting of their Supreme People's Assembly. It is sort of the rubber stamp national assembly of North Korea. But it is the political event of the year for North Korea. It is a time when it wants to show the outside world that North Korea is strong, that its leadership is in power.
So what better way to show its own people, as well as the outside world, that this in fact is the case than to launch a long-range rocket? Now, North Korea has said it is a communications satellite. That's another important thing. Even South Korea's not been able to launch a communication satellite. So the very fact that they tell their own people that we have made this type of technology ahead of even South Korea is an important boost for the North Korean leadership.
So there are a lot of -- a lot of advantages involved for North Korea if they have a successful long-range rocket launch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, why does North Korea want to have the attention? Is it because North Korea and Kim Jong-il, they want to get back to six-party talks? They want to force Washington, D.C. into negotiations on their terms?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, all of that and more. North Korea is known for the saber rattling tactics that it uses, whenever it faces a tough negotiation with the outside world. North Korea is in one right now, in terms of the six-party talks, the international efforts to get North Korea to give up its nuclear weapons' program.
And now they are also facing a new leadership in Washington. And North Korean leadership is very interested in getting the Obama administration to pay attention to North Korea, to try to give North Korea what it needs to try to better the North Korean hand at the game they're playing. So it is important for North Korea to get the international attention, to make sure that the international community is aware that a lot is at stake, in terms of any negotiations with North Korea, and they better come to the table prepared to give into North Korea at some point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, thank you. Please stick around. We are going to bring up an additional correspondent from regional coverage and reaction to our breaking news story for you. We have indeed confirmed through government sources in Japan and in South Korea that North Korea has gone ahead with that expected rocket launch around ten minutes ago. North Korea has launched a rocket.
Its payload, satellite or missile, still unknown at this moment. We're working on bringing those details for you. In the meantime, let's go to our John Vause, who joins us on the phone from Beijing. Beijing is Pyongyang's most important ally, a major trading partner, main source of food, arms and fuel.
Senior international correspondent John Vause joins us now. John, what is the Chinese government likely to do now?
JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The bottom line is not a lot. Before this launch stock place, we knew that Beijing was trying to calm the situation. It had half-heartedly urged Pyongyang not to go ahead with this launch. But in all of this, China will be crucial because of the veto it carries in the Security Council.
Until this last act two weeks ago, after North Korea detonated a nuclear weapon, and we had UN Resolution 17, 18, which imposed sanctions on North Korea. Because of China's involvement in that and because of China's traditional role of protecting North Korea at the U.N., especially in the Security Council, that UN resolution was left up to individual countries to enforce. So essentially it was never enforced at all.
So North Korea had a nuclear test of a weapon and got away with it. Now we're faced with another situation where the world has urged North Korea not to launch this missile and China, once again, will probably give it cover within the U.N., because, as far as China is concerned, the bigger picture in all of this, as we heard from GA, is, in fact, the six-party talks.
In fact, we also heard from the United States as well. It doesn't want to be too hard on North Korea, because they still believe that the bigger picture is to get the North Koreans to end their nuclear program. So they come down too heavily --
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For a moment there, John, we thought we lost you. But you're definitely there on the line. I just want to ask you, there's been so much international condemnation, seeing international leaders telling North Koreans not to go ahead with this launch. They've gone ahead with the launch. China, the closest ally of North Korea. China, the one country that could literally starve North Korea into submission. But China also holds that key veto power in the security council.
The question is, would this launch, would this event, would it strengthen the resolve of China to act tougher on North Korea?
VAUSE: A lot is made about the leverage that China has over North Korea. And, sure, it has a lot more leverage than say the United States or Japan or South Korea. But really, it's also in a bit of a bind here as well. You've got a very fragile situation within North Korea. And so, you know, the Chinese don't want to come down too hard on the North, because they do have this relationship with this country. And if it does try to enforce these resolutions and you get some kind of destabilization of the regime.
You know, we hear all the time the Chinese are worried about 20 million North Koreans flooding over the border. They don't want a situation in North Korea where Pyongyang suddenly becomes unstable and is unable to govern.
So yes, it does have a lot of leverage. But it doesn't want to use that leverage. Given what we saw in the buildup to this launch, to this rocket launch, it would appear that China isn't going to exercise any great leverage over North Korea, and will most likely take a very defensive stance in the U.N. Security Council, if it comes to sanctions on North Korea, once the U.N. Security Council meets within the next few hours.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: John, thank you for that. John Vause joining us life from Beijing. Let's go back to Songi (ph). She's monitoring this story, breaking news story from the other side of the border in Seoul. She joins us now live from Seoul. Before we get into what is likely to be South Korea's diplomatic reaction to this event, I was wondering if in the meantime you got more information about what exactly what's launched?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't know yet. The South Korean media is reporting it has -- it's flown over the Japanese continent and that the first and second debris, the second stages have been put into the seas between South Korea and Japan. And the second stage in the seas west of Japan. But none of this has been confirmed at the moment. It's just coming from South Korean media sources.
But we're also hearing that at the top of the hour, the South Korean president's office will make an official announcement about North Korea's launching. And they will make their position known on the launching. But it is expected that South Korea will condemn this action. But we will wait to see until the top of the hour, Christy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Thank you for that, joining us live from Seoul. In anticipation of this North Korean rocket launch, warships from the U.S., from Japan, South Korea had moved into the Sea of Japan or the East Sea, including at least three U.S. Navy destroyers, capable of shooting down ballistic missiles.
Also, Japan deployed Patriot Missile interceptors to protect the northern part of the country and Tokyo. North Korea had also accused the U.S. and South Korea of flying hundreds of spy plane missions near its borders. And North Korea captured worldwide attention when they test fired Typodong II missile, along with two short range rockets, in July of 2006. The UN Security Council immediately passed a resolution demanding that North Korea suspend its missile program.
Richard Roth has more on Resolution 1718.
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RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Despite their global, legal significance, many Security Counsel resolutions are wide open for interpretation years later. In October 2006, the Security Council condemned North Korea for missile launches in the summer and a nuclear test in October. A key line in Resolution 1718 states "the council demands that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea not conduct any further nuclear tests or launch of a ballistic missile."
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LEMON: That's Richard Roth reporting there for CNN international. We wanted to get that to you because it's very important how this affects the world and our security, especially when the president is overseas now, meeting with leaders, also the G-20 and also the NATO summit overseas. The president has said this would be a productive act if Korea decided to do something like that, North Korea. And it appears from South Korean government and from others who are reporting it, that North Korea has indeed done that productive act, as the president has said, that it has fired a long-range rocket, something that will be threatening here for the next few days.
We are going to continue to follow this developing story as it relates to the United States here on CNN domestic. What the president is saying as he is meeting with leaders and what is going to go on overseas. Does this change what the president is going to have to do there?
In the meantime, I will see you back here tomorrow night. But we will get it now to our special investigations, "Eyewitness to Murder: The King Assassination."
