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Obama Has Strong Words for North Korea; What the U.N. Will, Will Not do about North Korea; Binghamton Shooting Victim Will be Missed; Americans Will Get Views of Flag-draped Coffins Returning from War.
Aired April 05, 2009 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN NEWS ANCHOR: A journey shrouded in secrecy no more. Why you'll see new images of America's fallen war heroes returning home. The news starts now.
Good evening. I'm Don Lemon. Most of the world said, don't do it, but North Korea, they did it anyway. The communist state defying global opinion launching a rocket claiming to have carried a peaceful satellite into orbit. The U.S. says the rocket was a cover for missile tests and that it failed. Late today, the United Nations Security Council met and adjourned without any official reaction to that launch.
Overseas today, President Barack Obama addressed the incident during his speech to a crowd in Prague. He had strong words for the North Korean state.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Just this morning we were reminded again of why we need a new and more rigorous approach to address this threat. North Korea broke the rules, once again, by testing a rocket that could be used for long-range missiles. This provocation underscores the need for action, not just this afternoon at the U.N. Security Council, but in our determination to prevent the spread of these weapons. Rules must be binding, violations must be punished, words must mean something. The world must stand together to prevent the spread of these weapons. Now's the time for a strong international response. (CHEERS). Now is the time for a strong international response. (CHEERS).
Now is the time for a strong international response and North Korea must know that the path to security and respect will never come through threats and illegal weapons. All nations have come together to build a stronger, global regime. That's why we must stand shoulder to shoulder to pressure for North Korea to change courses.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Official reaction from the United Nations could be days away. The Security Council met this afternoon in emergency session watch for three hours but took no action. Afterwards, the U.S. ambassador said North Korea's actions require a strong U.N. Response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SUSAN RICE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: The United States expressed its strong view that the launch yesterday constituted a clear-cut violation of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1718. And it is our view that this action merits a clear and strong response from the United Nations Security Council.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: There you have it. We've heard what the United Nations will or won't be doing about North Korea.
Now Pentagon Correspondent Chris Lawrence breaks it down, the bottom line.
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Here's the site on the eastern side of North Korea. U.S. Navy missile destroyers are positioned here and here on both sides of Japan. Stage one of the rocket falls right here in the Sea of Japan, roughly where North Koreans thought it would. Within a few minutes later, something goes wrong because the satellite does not make it into orbit. Part of the rocket falls here into the Pacific Ocean.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE (voice-over): U.S. officials say the payload did not separate successfully during the last stage. But North Korea was able to control its rocket through that point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is a significant step forward for any missile program because at times those missiles become unstable as they go through these staging events.
LAWRENCE: This was a more advanced rocket than the one North Korea launched in 1988. And it improved the range from a similar test in 2006 when the missile one blew apart 40 seconds after launch.
But experts say the longer test gave the U.S. military more to study.
UNIDENTIFIED U.S. OFFICIAL: I think for the most time we've gotten full images of the entire vehicle. I don't think we've ever fully had that except back in 1994 when we saw the mock-up of the concept of it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: And the U.S. can incorporate that into its own missile defense system. Experts say this missile could potentially reach Alaska and Hawaii and could carry a nuclear warhead.
Now, North Korea is not there yet, but there's a concern that it could sell the technology that it does have to other nations which may be developing their own nuclear programs -- Don?
LEMON: CNN's Chris Lawrence. Thank you, Chris. Why should you care about the North Korean rocket launch? Because a lot of countries not friendly with the West are eager to buy North Korean missiles. Syria, Libya, Pakistan, and Iran are among North Korea's best customers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE CIRINCIONE, PRESIDENT, PLOUGHSHARES FUND: They take the knowdung (ph) missile from North Korea. They paint it with Pakistani colors and they call it galrey (ph). You paint it with Iranian colors and you call it the shahab.
LEMON: CNN correspondents around the world are closely monitoring the North Korean situation.
Sohn Jie-ae is in Seoul, South Korea. Kyung Lah is in Tokyo, Japan. And John Vause is in Beijing, China.
Sohn Jie-ae, you are practically within sight of North Korea. We begin with you. What's the latest?
SOHN JIE-AE, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, South Korea was harshly critical of North Korea's rocket launch, calling it a reckless act and a threat to national security. In some this morning they wanted the Seoul government to be firm with North Korea, to send a message to North Korea that if they break the rules, they must be prepared to pay the price. They also wanted the Seoul government to push the U.N. To send a firm message to North Korea that they must not follow this path.
But for most South Koreans, it was Monday, business as usual. While the rocket launch was new, the North Korean threat was not.
LEMON: Sohn Jie-ae, we appreciate that.
We're going now to Kyung Lah.
Kyung, to Japan has been keeping a wary eye on the Korean peninsula?
KYUNG LAH, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: A wary eye of the Korean peninsula. Remember, Don, this missile flew right over Japan. Japan wanted out of the Security Council was a strong statement. It did not get that immediately.
A source within Japan's government tells CNN, at this point, they are content to wait. They will wait and hope that eventually, after this first meeting, there will be a clear, concise and strong message sent to North Korea.
As far as what life is looking like here on Monday morning here in Tokyo, things getting back to normal. All the military exercises we saw, those factory (ph) Patriot missiles on the ground and the destroyers, all that is being pulled back. So now what Japan is hoping for is some follow through to try to show that there has to be consequences to North Korea -- Don? LEMON: Kyung in Tokyo. Thank you, Kyung.
We turn now to John Vause in Beijing.
John, most people think they probably have the most influence in North Korea. What are you hearing?
JOHN VAUSE, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Beijing is calling for calm, urging the world not to over react and trying to remind countries in this region to remember what the big picture is. And the big picture, according to Beijing, is trying to get North Korea to end its nuclear program, trying to get Pyongyang back to the stalled so-called six- party talks.
That's not to say that Beijing is not concerned. While nothing is being said publicly, analysts say that China would be worried about what Japan's response to this rocket launch would be. Will the Japanese decide to increase their military because of the threat coming from the North Koreans? China would be very much worried about a re-militarized Japan. While nothing is being said publicly, analysts say Beijing will be expressing its displeasure privately to Pyongyang -- Don?
LEMON: John, Sohn Jei-ae, Kyung, thanks so to you all.
President Barack Obama on the world stage.
(WHISTLING)
LEMON: No question about how the media thought he did, but did he convince world leaders to see things his way? We're digging deeper.
New information on what allegedly prompted a Pittsburgh man to go on a deadly rampage. You're not going to believe this one.
And remembering one of the victims of the Binghamton massacre, a wife, mother and teacher who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
We also want you to be part of our broadcast tonight, Twitter, MySpace Facebook or iReport.com is how you to get your responses on the air.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: It has been a day of mourning in Binghamton, New York, for the victims of Friday's shooting rampage. The community gathered for a candle-light vigil to remember the 13 lives lost when a lone gunman opened fire inside an immigration services center before turning the gun on himself. Funerals were held today at a local mosque for two of the victims. Among those gunned down, a 72-year-old mother of ten who gave so much to her community.
CNN's Allan Chernoff told us about her life. ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN NEWS CORESPONDENT: Don, friends and family remember Roberta King as a giving person who was often volunteering her time, a pillar of her community.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF (voice-over): Roberta King's ten children can't believe their mother is gone, shot and killed at the American civic association.
UNIDENTIFIED SON OF ROBERTA KING: You never think this is going to change your life. This is so beyond belief.
CHERNOFF: Bobby King, as she was known to everyone, was doing what she loved to do on Friday, teaching, especially to immigrants.
GEORGIA LEARNER, DAUGHTER OF VICTIM: She was really interested in their stories and hearing about what it was like for them to come to this country. She would often tell us about how they would have two or three jobs so they could send money home. And she was really impressed with what people were doing.
CHERNOFF: Bobby's car was in the shot, so Marion Pine, her friend of 40 years, drove her to the American Civic Association Friday morning so she could fill in for another teacher.
MARION PINE, FRIEND OF VICTIM: Her warmth and her sociability were maybe her best features. She was just out going and wonderful to everybody she met. And it's hard to imagine Binghamton without her.
CHERNOFF: Bobby King worked as a substitute teacher not only at the American Civic Association but at local schools as well. She also volunteered at the Phelps Mansion, where Friday evening, she had planned to give a tour.
Among her great joys, a huge collection of dolls that she used for teaching.
ROSEMAIRE LEVY, DAUGHER OF VICTIM: She explained to me that a major reason why she loved dolls is because when you learned about where a doll came from you were learning about history.
CHERNOFF: Roberta Bobby King leaves a legacy of education, having taught thousands of immigrants and school children, putting her ten children through college, and those children are now educating Bobby's 17 grandchildren.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF: The King family had planned to gather in week at Bobby King's home to celebrate Passover. Instead, they gather today to mourn the loss of their mother and grandmother -- Don?
LEMON: All right, Allan Chernoff, thank you very much for that.
Tonight we're hearing from a family member of one of the murdered Pittsburgh police officers. He and two comrades were gunned down yesterday while responding to a domestic dispute. It began when the suspect's mother called police, threatening to evict her son after his dog urinated in her house. But when she let police in, 22-year-old Richard Poplawski, allegedly was waiting with a rifle.
Officer Steven Mayhle was one of the first to be shot. His uncle says the family is just devastated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN MAYHLE, UNCLE OF OFFICER MAYHLE: It's a shock. I think the thing that drove it home for us is when we saw his picture and his last name being spelled. That's our Stephen. It drove it home. It kind of -- you know, you just -- you wish you are going to wake up from this nightmare, but it's just -- you know, it's happened now and we're going to make the best of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Poplawski was wounded in a four-hour gun battle with SWAT and taken into custody. He's been charged with three counts of homicides and nine counts of attempted homicide. His mom said he had been stockpiling weapons.
Police in Pierce County, Washington, believe a father killed his five children and himself after he learned his wife was leaving him for another man. He apparently had a confrontation with his wife and her boyfriend earlier in the day. The bloodshed sent shock waves through the mobile home community where the family lived.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The kids' shouldn't have to die like that. It's not right.
PAUL PASTOR, SHERIFF, PIERCE COUNTY, WASHINGTON: This was not a tragedy, this was a rotten murder. Too often we call these things tragedies. What happened was five innocent kids lost their lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The children, four girls and a boy, were ages 7 to 16. The father was found dead in his car 20 miles from the family's home. It's believed that, after killing his children, he may have gone looking for his wife and her boyfriend but couldn't find them.
Here's what some of you are saying about the stories we have on our broadcast tonight.
Vibtweet says, "At long last, Americans should see the full cost of the war."
Ctguy2675 say, "There must be consequences for North Korea if it continues its provocative action."
Naughtybynature3 says, "On North Korea, could those rockets have contained a biological agent meant to poison bodies of water with infectious material?"
Conspiracy theories abound here.
Coolgreenpines says, "What is going to be done about gun control and gun violence. I've had enough of this. I want guns out of people's hands.
Join our community. Get your responses on the air, Twitter, Facebook, or MySpace or iReport.com. We'll get them on for you.
It didn't take long for President Obama to get that 4:00 a.m. phone call talked about during the campaign. We'll take a closer look at what he said about the North Korean rocket launch. It's linked to Iran. And how he handled his first international summit.
Also, the remains of U.S. servicemen returning home from war, images not seen in the U.S. for nearly 20 years. But after tonight, that will change. We're digging deeper.
Plus, lessons from a legend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMOKIN' JOE FRAZIER, HEAVY WEIGHT BOXING CHAMPION: (INAUDIBLE)
LEMON: This leg?
SMOKIN' JOE FRAZIER, HEAVY WEIGHT BOXING CHAMPION: No. No.
LEMON: Left leg, all right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: It's a good thing I have a day job or a night job. I'll tell you why I was going toe to toe with Smokin' Joe Frazier, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: President Obama's first real international crisis happened during his first overseas trip as president. On the day that North Korea launched a rocket, the president talked about the evolving dangers of nuclear weapons.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: In a strange turn of history, the threat of global nuclear war has gone down but the risk of a nuclear attack has gone up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Let's talk more about North Korea, the rocket launch, the president's response, and the early reviews of his overseas trip.
You know our regulars. There they are, CNN Senior Political Editor Mark Preston and "Chicago Sun-Times'" Washington Bureau Chief Lynn Sweet.
Mark, I'll start with you. The timing here of his speech today and the launch, this was saber rattling among North Koreans. But it did present President Obama with a unique opportunity speaking on behalf of the world on this issue.
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL EDITOR: It did. He was able to come out and talk about, you know, trying to take nuclear weapons out of everybody's hands, including the U.S.'s at some point and having a nuclear-free world. But the fact is, what he really wanted was the U.N., Don, to do something and really to strike back hard at North Korea. We did not see that tonight.
LEMON: Didn't see it happen tonight. Maybe we should give him a little bit more time.
It's more than just a three-hour meeting and one day, Lynn?
LYNN SWEET, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "CHICAGO SUN-TIMES": Absolutely. What this is an example of is how Obama is wanting to work in concert with the international community and with the United Nations, and not go solo. This is an example of how Obama wants to combine the long-range term of nuclear proliferation with the short- range crisis now, with the handling of the short-range crisis with North Korea.
LEMON: Lynn, is this another distraction to the real issues here at home? I mean, the jobless rate at 8.5 percent on Friday, the highest in 25 years. One more thing on the president's plate, which is already full?
SWEET: Well, one doesn't preclude the other. On this international trip, his plate was full. He's giving what I think will be a very, very important trip to Turkey. On Tuesday he'll be talking to -- specifically on Islamic relations as we are led to understand. I think that just because our economy here continues to melt down with the jobless rate, doesn't preclude some work on the international front on this introductory presidential tour of the world.
He did do well. And I think having the crisis emerge on his watch, Don, kind of let him show his stuff. He had some other mini crises that he has dealt with, too, along with way with other international leaders, to let him show how he can help quarterback system of these relationship issues.
LEMON: Mark, you know, she brings up a good point. The G-20, first trip abroad. But what does the president really bring back that's tangible? Obviously, he was very likable over there. The likability factor, does that translate at all into anything that may work or is it going to be business as usual from the European?
PRESTON: I think a couple of things, Don. One, he did not make a major mistake, not a major gaff, which I think, in itself, is a very big accomplishment for a new president to go overseas and to meet with so many world leaders to talk about so many issues and come back gaff free. That in itself is very big. Also, I think, you know, we heard him in all his speeches talk about the fact that this is not the united states going at it alone. This is a global crisis, whether it's the economy, whether it's Iran, North Korea, and that everybody needs to work together. In fact, he said, gone are the days where Roosevelt and Churchill would sit in a room and drink brandy and come up with a solution to fix all the world's problems. That in itself, I think, is a good step forward in his young presidency.
LEMON: It was interesting watching the images coming from overseas as the president and the first lady made their first trip abroad as the first family, first major overseas trip as the first family, to watch the reaction to the people, a lot of fawning going on. You could see it in the pictures. Not only from the average everyday citizen, but even from the heads of state, Lynn.
SWEET: I think that Obama understood, even when he was running, that just an appearance on the international scene could give America a chance to have a new look. And he personified that. He is a charismatic president. It shown on world leaders who wanted to know him.
Besides, there was one picture that was goofy with the guys giving thumbs up at some point. You understand that in the last administration, necessarily. His likability is leverage. He has leverage because of that. I think that in his introductory tour where he was able to come in new, with no prior issues of any issues there, all these world leaders wanted to basically give him a chance.
LEMON: We're talking about world leaders. Mark, it was interesting watching the foreign press, you know, take snapping pictures with their cell phones of him when he walked into a room, and then applauding him after a press conference.
PRESTON: That in itself is amazing when you have reporters stand up after a press conference and applaud him. Oftentimes, the press wants to throw tomatoes at who they're talking to because they're not getting the answers --
LEMON: Issues.
PRESTON: ...the answers, their questions answered. What else was amazing is Michelle Obama, herself, when she was over there. The fact that all the tabloids in the U.K. were following every step, every movement by her, talking about how she...
LEMON: Not just the tabloids in the U.K., Mark. There were a lot of tabloids here as well.
SWEET: It was everywhere.
PRESTON: No, it wasn't just -- I would agree with you.
LEMON: We're going to get into that with our radio host in just a little bit to talk about the first lady and her appear. Scene stealer, she was a crowd pleaser over there. Mark, Lynn, thank you both very much.
SWEET: Thank you.
PRESTON: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: A journey shrouded in secrecy no more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN MEREDITH, SOLDIER'S MOTHER: If we don't see those images, then we don't know that these young men and women are dying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: This is a very controversial story. Why you will now see images of America's fallen war heroes returning home.
Also, a rash of mass killings across the U.S. Our panel discusses whether it's time to get tough on gun ownership.
And the first lady on the stage. Some say her sense of style reminds them of another former first lady who wowed the world. We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. This just in to CNN. It's coming from overseas. A 6.3 magnitude earthquake has struck central Italy. The U.S. Geology Survey says it came just hours after another smaller quake hit the northern part of the country. No immediate reports of damage, nor injuries.
A lot of you have been asking about this story on Twitter and Facebook. Again, no injuries here and no serious damage, so we have been having our international desks check on it. We're going to keep on top of it and bring you reports if we get information, especially if we find there's some serious damage and some injuries.
But first, for the first time in almost 20 years, Americans will now get a glimpse of the flag-draped coffins belonging to the men and women who died in combat. The U.S. Air Force informed media today that the family of Staff Sergeant Philip Miers, shown here in this picture, consented to allowing coverage of his casket being returned to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. A ceremony is being held at the top of the hour.
Reporters were banned from covering the homecomings during the first gulf war. Here's CNN's Susan Roesgen on how.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: This was a live news broadcast in 1989. The U.S. had invaded Panama to remove military leader Manuel Noriega. And the first President Bush was holding a news conference. But when he was done speaking, the mood changed. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president is in excellent health.
ROESGEN: The president appeared to be smiling at the same time viewers were seeing the first invasion casualties being brought to Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. The Defense Department won't confirm it, but it's been widely accepted that this is what led to the ban. And in the next military conflict, the first gulf war, the Pentagon banned any more media coverage of military coffins at Dover.
Now some families say it's time to lift that ban.
MEREDITH: His Hawaiian shirt over full body armor. That's the kind of soldier he was.
ROESGEN: Lieutenant Ken Ballard left for Iraq on mother's day 2003. He came home in a casket on Memorial Day 2004.
MEREDITH: I wanted the nation to grieve with me, to grieve the loss of my only child. And if we don't see those images, then we don't know that these young men and women are dying. And to me, it's an honor to have an Honor Guard at Dover when they bring these young men and women back.
ROESGEN: But others say that honor should be private. Vince Rangel, a former Army Ranger captain in Vietnam says he still thinks about the soldiers who were killed in his platoon.
VINCE RANGEL, FORMER ARMY RANGER CAPTAIN: When they come off the plane, these are anonymous caskets. And, you know, what is the greater good of that? I would rather that they take that attention and give it everything it deserves at the gravesite, in the communities where you can get all of the information so people can understand these people as human beings, not just as a flag-draped casket that comes off a plane.
ROESGEN: Two different views of how to give the dead the dignity they deserve.
LEMON: We should also add, even though reporters are allowed to observe the remains of American troops being returned to the U.S., families must approve the media's presence to film the coffins. If you think President Obama got a rock star's welcome overseas, it was nothing compared to what's being called Michelle-mania.
Well, you know, talk radio is buzzing about this and a whole lot more. We'll check in with these guys on what they're hearing.
Hello, guys. Also, keep your comments coming because these guys are ready for them as well. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace.com, or I- Report.com. It's time to talk to the radio hosts.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: What do Europeans think of the United States? President Obama has been received well there, speaking frankly about this country and its supposed arrogance. Listen to what he said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, tonight our radio host conservative, Ben Ferguson, host of the "The Ben Ferguson Show" on Radio America; and Warren Ballentine, author of "The Truth about Black and White: A Practical Guide to Race Relations" and "Money in the 21st Century." They both join us right now.
OK. Thank you guys for joining us. I've got to -- did you hear the arrogance question?
BEN FERGUSON, HOST, "THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW": Yes.
LEMON: And you know what, Ben, I've got to start with you because I've been hearing a lot of conservatives say, how dare him go and criticize the United States on a world stage?
FERGUSON: Well, forget that for a second. I just truly was laughing at this week because you had a president that gave an iPod to the queen of England with speeches that he had made in his life. Now you want to talk about arrogance of the world, how arrogant are you to give an iPod to the queen of your own speeches?
LEMON: Well, what do you think of the queen, is the queen arrogant?
FERGUSON: Well, no, but to give your own speeches.
LEMON: She gave him a plate of a picture of her -- she and her husband.
FERGUSON: Yes, but, no, no, gave him some pens as well. I mean, the reality is, is, yes, it's very bad on the international stage. When you start going around the world and you start apologizing all of the time, it's like he went over there and he wanted to say, we don't want -- no longer want to be a leader of these 20 nations or for the world, we just want to be one of 20 nations of the G-20. And we just want to be average. We don't want to be great.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Go ahead, Warren. You're laughing -- I see you laughing your head off over there.
WARREN BALLENTINE, HOST, "THE WARREN BALLENTINE SHOW": You know what, I've got to laugh at them, because what this president did is went over there and cleaned up the mess that the previous president had -- did. We got eight years of hate. He's over there trying to rebuild bridges to make it where we can actually go overseas and have a common bond to make things better for everybody. He went over there and the arrogance comment that he made wasn't about Americans, it was about this past president who went into Iraq when the world told him not to do it. That's what he was doing.
FERGUSON: Look at what he was -- look at what he was talking about. Today he talked about -- and it's a worldview the man is talking about. It's not about the last administration all the time, even though he tries hard to do that.
But today even look at North Korea. He said we need a global demand and we need to all get together. The reality is, is sometimes there's good and bad in the world and sometimes you have to be the leader. You don't just let everybody come...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Hang on, Warren, Hang on, Warren. Ben, what I think you're saying is that you don't need to air your dirty laundry. Everyone says, you know, that's something that happens inside of families. But when you're the leader of a free world as the U.S. president often -- is, leader of the free world, shouldn't you really talk about issues that affect the world and our...
FERGUSON: Absolutely.
LEMON: What people thought about us overseas, our reputation overseas was not good after the past eight years. You cannot deny that, conservative or liberal.
BALLENTINE: What this president is simply trying to do when he says he is reaching out to everybody, with North Korea even, he's trying to show the rest of the world that we are not going to take the same steps that we did...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: OK. The buzzer! That's the buzzer! That's the buzzer. That's going to have to be the last word on that. Let's talk about something that most everybody agrees on. The first lady, sensation over here and over there by most people's account. Warren?
BALLENTINE: Just look at her. She's beautiful, she's smart, she's eloquent. I mean, what -- what fault could you find in this woman? None. She's fantastic.
LEMON: All right. Ben, do you disagree?
FERGUSON: I think she's beautiful, I think she's very nice, but the fact of the matter is...
LEMON: Was it too much?
FERGUSON: ... when I've got a lady walking out there on stage and waving and more of the world is worried about that, you know what? Maybe the president should do his job being the president and let the first lady be the front-person of smiling and waving for America. Maybe that's how it should work. The problem is, I feel like both of them are competing in a beauty pageant of who has got more friends and family...
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: But you know, hang on, hang on, I mean, is it their fault though? And I think "Saturday Night Live," it was very funny last night, sort of summed it up when they said the first lady wore an outfit by -- not The Gap, by J. Crew and that it sold out. Now, if we could only get her to drive a Chrysler.
FERGUSON: That's great. Yes. The only problem is, is there's real problems in America and around the world. And I don't want "American Idol" to be going to Europe and that's what could happen.
LEMON: Real problem is -- talking about the gun violence happening here in the U.S., the president addressed that overseas. Let's talk about that. Gun control, bringing back the assault weapons ban, Ben?
FERGUSON: You name a place around the world where gun control has worked. The fact of the matter is, law-abiding citizens actually abide by the laws.
LEMON: You say there's no place around the world where gun control has worked?
FERGUSON: Look at the U.K., look at the U.K. when they passed massive gun control laws. Look at their violence, is drastically up. Look at the rate, it's drastically up.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: It's drastically up, but, Warren and Ben, -- but, Warren, it's still much lower than ours even though it's up now.
FERGUSON: No, it's not. Not in -- not around -- look at London. That's wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: We looked at the stats last night and we are way higher than Europe.
BALLENTINE: This is what I'm going to say, Don, on this issue right here, unfortunately, I'm going to agree with Ben here. You know, because of this new world order and everything that's happening with state police and all this other stuff, I think every American should be getting a gun right now because we don't know what's going on with the fact of terrorism and everything else...
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Oh, my gosh.
BALLENTINE: ... I think we all should be packing.
LEMON: All right. Well, you know what...
FERGUSON: I'll pull it back a notch. All I know is, is that crazy people that do the things that we've seen over the last few days are very tragic, are going to do them whether you have gun control laws or not because, guess what, they're breaking the law and they're willing to kill themselves to do it. No law matters to a human being that is willing to kill themselves...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: The real issue here, really, is more about people than about guns. And we need to sort of reach a consensus somewhere on this to try to get a handle up on it. We want to talk about -- wanted to talk to you guys about other things.
Gay rights, because, you know, Iowa last week. But we're running out of time. I want to get to an issue, very timely issue that sort of -- it didn't come up just tonight, but it's going to happen, probably, what, about 20 minutes. We're going to start seeing -- being able to see the photos of coffins of American men and women -- servicemen and -women coming home. That's going to be a huge issue come tomorrow.
BALLENTINE: Hallelujah, hallelujah. I say thank God that this is happening. I think for Americans, sometimes you need that photo to put that perspective on what's going on. That's what happened in the civil rights movement and that's what happened in Korea -- excuse me, in Vietnam, and I think that needs to happen right now for Iraq.
LEMON: Go ahead, Ben.
FERGUSON: I think it's sad. And I'll tell you why. You're going to have people that are going to distort and pervert these photos into their own political gain and mission, and these men and women fought for their country. They signed up. There was no draft. They did it willingly. They fought for their country. Their families should be able -- and their communities should be able to honor them in their way. If they want to publicize it...
BALLENTINE: The families have to give the -- they have to the...
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Let him finish, Warren.
FERGUSON: Some families want their loved ones to be honored. I don't have a problem with that. The problem is, is when you have a casket, what happens is it no longer becomes a human being and there are people that will pervert that into their own political mission. And that's what scares me and makes it sad. If you as a family want to put a photo out there, that's fine.
LEMON: We've got to wrap it up. All right. Warren, you want two seconds. Are you cool?
BALLENTINE: I'm cool. I think Ben's wrong, but, hey, we're out of time.
LEMON: OK. Maybe the way, maybe...
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: You've got a good golf game, I'll give you that.
BALLENTINE: Yes, yes, we can play some golf now.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Oh, my gosh. These guys are talking about golf all night. Hey, listen, maybe the way that we should approach this is the way when you go in to get your driver's license and you sign off on whether or not you want to be a donor, maybe upon going into the service, maybe you sign off on that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a good idea, Don. That's a good idea.
LEMON: Thank you both. We appreciate it.
Wildfires in West Texas and a winter blast across the Midwest. Is it really spring? Bonnie Schneider is keeping an eye on all of the action.
Also, sparring with a former heavyweight champion. That's not something I get to do every day. I go toe to toe with "Smokin' Joe" Frazier.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Texas firefighters have a battle on their hands as they struggle to contain several wildfires, the largest, the 12,000-acre blaze around the panhandle town of Wheeler where strong winds are fanning the flames. Some of the 1,300 residents evacuated yesterday are now back home. The fires is about 25 percent contained, but the winds are making it tough to hold the fire lines.
Some two dozen homes are damaged or destroyed. Two dozen firefighters suffered smoke inhalation. And hundreds of homes and businesses are threatened.
(WEATHER REPORT)
LEMON: A lot of you are weighing in on our stories tonight. Here's what "downtownbedrock" says: "Michelle Obama stands alone, Jackie O. did not represent all of the people like Michelle does. This is a new day."
"Princeoftides" says: "Never forget our really true heroes who have sacrificed their lives so we can continue to whine and complain."
"CaberetArtist" says: "Lynn Sweet is always so spot-on, specific, and rational, and relevant. Good on her." We agree. That's why we have her on.
"Masha3" says: "After serving 20 years in the Navy, I think it's about time we honor our fallen soldiers or sailors more openly."
Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, I-Report.com, you can be on the air, too.
This isn't something I do every day, sparring with a heavyweight champion. I'll tell you why I was going toe-to-toe with "Smokin' Joe," straight ahead.
Also, what is the number one gripe about workplace rudeness? We've got the answer, and you might be guilty.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: In our continuing series "Up from a Past: African-America Firsts," I had an opportunity to chat with "Smokin' Joe" Frazier. He and Muhammad Ali, one of the greatest rivalries of all time in and out of the boxing ring, both won Olympic gold and later the title. But Frazier did it as a heavyweight both times. It has been almost 30 years since his last fight, but "Smokin' Joe" still has his jab.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON (voice-over): Joe Frazier, sparring with me, even in jest, is a long way away are from this, his heyday, 37 fights, 32 wins, 27 of those knockouts. And who can forget the "Fight of the Century," the one time he snatched the title from trash-talking archrival, Muhammad Ali.
MUHAMMAD ALI, WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION: Everybody that watches him train, there is no contest, better not fight with that with Ali.
LEMON (on camera): Do you miss the ring?
JOE FRAZIER, WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION: What ring? I have one on.
LEMON: No, no, no.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: That's a good -- you're a jokester. You know what ring I'm talking about.
FRAZIER: Boxing. Well, no, I'm still in the gym.
LEMON (voice-over): Loving the gym and loving the sport. The first American boxer to win both the Olympic gold medal and the professional world title in the heavyweight division. But up until the age of 37, "Smokin' Joe" kept chasing the heavyweight title. (on camera): You kept coming back. You wouldn't go away, man.
FRAZIER: I never went nowhere. Coming back, where'd I go?
LEMON (voice-over): Sounds a lot like the real-life version of Rocky Balboa.
(on camera): Was there a lot of you in that character, Rocky?
FRAZIER: Sure. I worked at the slaughterhouse, I'm the guy that ran in the streets of Philadelphia.
LEMON (voice-over): Philly is where, after all these years, Frazier has settled, devoting his life to his boxing gym, keeping young people in the ring and off the streets of a city with one of the nation's highest murder rates.
FRAZIER: That gym keeps a lot of trouble from going out into the street because a young man (INAUDIBLE) have a place to go, like work off that anxiety, work off that hate.
LEMON (on camera): Is that for -- at least young people now, is that your mission, to look after young people?
FRAZIER: I don't mind working with the kids. The kids is tomorrow. And if we don't do what with we're supposed to do for them now, how are you going expect them to carry on?
LEMON (voice-over): Frazier says he learned that lesson in his own youth, growing up poor in the South.
FRAZIER: I'm from the South, animosity, bigotry, hatred, you name it. You know, the food wasn't there for us, but we worked on the farm and stuff like that, but therefore, like, you know, I come from that white hate and the black hate and whatever.
LEMON (on camera): Let's talk about you were coming up during that time...
FRAZIER: OK.
LEMON: ... and you've seen -- you've seen the change in civil rights and how you were dealt with and things that you had to deal with coming up. And then all of a sudden now we've got a black president.
FRAZIER: Well, I never would thought that I would see the day, but therefore I'm happy that it happened. I think he's a fine gentleman. I think he's doing a fine job.
LEMON (voice-over): As an "African-American First," Joe Frazier has experienced more triumph and more pain than most. His six brothers are all gone. It's reported that he has lost his boxing fortune, but he has hung on to his sense of humor.
FRAZIER (singing): Ain't no sense in going home, (INAUDIBLE). (LAUGHTER)
FRAZIER (singing): You've got a job but you work too hard.
LEMON (on camera): He has got a good voice.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: You've got a good voice.
FRAZIER: I like that music, man.
LEMON (voice-over): He likes the music and America loves "Smokin' Joe."
(on camera): They scream when you came out.
FRAZIER: They were saying I'm slow (ph). Ain't no bear (ph), that was "Smokin' Joe" Frazier.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: "Smokin' Joe," you still got it, brother. Ever wonder why -- where Frazier got the nickname "Smokin' Joe"? Well, in the earlier days of his career, his trainer used to say before the fight, go out there and make smoke come from those gloves. So there you have it.
And I have to mention this, you can see "Smokin' Joe" Frazier and other boxing greats next Saturday. HBO is airing the documentary "The Thrilla in Manila" April 11th, 8:00 p.m. Eastern. You don't want to miss that.
What is a number one gripe about workplace rudeness? We've got the answer. Are you part of the problem?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: I want to update you now on a developing story overseas that a lot of you have been asking about on Twitter and Facebook. A 6.3 magnitude quake has struck central Italy, about 60 miles northeast of Rome. Now we're getting reports of collapsed buildings and possible casualties. The U.S. Geological Survey says the quake came just hours after another smaller quake hit the northern part of the country.
Rescuers have been called out to the city where the quake was centered. We're definitely going to keep you on top of this from our international desk following every breaking detail on this story. If something happens, we have an update, we'll get it to you in this broadcast within the next couple of minutes.
LEMON: OK. Here's what some of you are saying about our stories. "DeliaTheArtist" says: "Joe's gym is awesome. What a great way to give back to the community with what he is passionate about."
"xojasminexo" says: "What a sweetheart that man Frazier is. I don't normally watch CNN but tonight I was intrigued."
"Aplus" says: "I'm extremely happy that our heroes will now have faces to their names."
And then "JohnwesleyA" says: "As Americans, we have a right to show something on TV if we wish. But don't forget, as Americans, we have the right not to watch."
"Gormonster" says: "It's undeniable that the U.S. has a murder rate well beyond anything found in even the poorest European country."
Keep them coming, guys. We like your feedback. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, or I-Report.com.
Workplace gripes. Are you the culprit? We're going to tell you, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK. Workplace rudeness, interrupting leads the list here in the workplace. That's according to careerbuilder.com. Not saying thank you to your colleagues is another faux pas. And, of course, everybody works with a pigpen, so, you know, they leave a mess around all the time.
Dirty habits include language. That's a bad one. And then the obnoxious loud phone talker, loud people in general. That is a no-no for me. Careerbuilder.com, thank you, we don't want to be rude.
I'm Don Lemon. I'll see you back here next weekend. "Eyewitness to Murder: The King Assassination," begins right now.
